Tivo in software deal with Nero [Text View]

TCM2007

11-28-2007, 11:19 AM

"This agreement provides TiVo with an opportunity to deliver its interface and differentiated feature set globally via the PC, enabling TiVo to use all avenues of mass distribution -- from consumer electronics, to cable and satellite boxes and soon, the PC," said Tom Rogers, President and CEO, TiVo. "We are thrilled to work with Nero, a highly successful leader in software solutions for the PC who has the ability to develop a state-of-the-art program centered on the TiVo platform that will bring the same personalized entertainment experience to domestic and international consumers on their personal computers."

Looking good!

mikerr

11-28-2007, 12:17 PM

Next question,

How much would you pay for it?

Single purchase, or purchase + sub ?

Nero2

11-28-2007, 12:29 PM

Being discussed here to:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=376020

cleudo

11-28-2007, 02:09 PM

Being discussed here to:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=376020

What a topical name you have ;-)

cwaring

11-28-2007, 02:27 PM

Well he was going to change it, but he eventually decided he didn't want to fiddle around with it ;):p

gazter

11-28-2007, 02:34 PM

Looking good!

The dream scenario would be access/support for sky cams including hd...

Tivo in HD, on a modern computer.. Ah, i can but dream, for that i would pay big money.

blindlemon

11-28-2007, 03:41 PM

for that i would pay big money.Shhhhh! Don't say that!

There are some serious cheapskates round here... :o:D

Nero2

11-28-2007, 04:08 PM

What a topical name you have ;-)

I try my best :)

Nero2

11-28-2007, 04:09 PM

Well he was going to change it, but he eventually decided he didn't want to fiddle around with it ;):p

I do plenty of fiddling, just not in public thanks.

stretch_blues

12-01-2007, 11:57 AM

cyril

12-01-2007, 01:41 PM

Sorry to those that have already seen this but thought I would share the comment of one reader of that article... :eek:

"tk @ Nov 28th 2007 10:16AM

@ Ron

You clearly haven't used Sky+ then. If thats the Tivo interface above then it looks pretty awful to me."

It is very surprising the number of people who like the appalling Sky+ interface. I guess after years of use they get accustomed to it and forget or ignore how much better the TiVo interface was/is.

The problem is that there exist DVRs with even worse user interfaces!

I guess TiVo and Vista are too sophisticated for them!

blindlemon

12-01-2007, 02:05 PM

It is very surprising the number of people who like the appalling Sky+ interface. I guess after years of use they get accustomed to it and forget or ignore how much better the TiVo interface was/is.Most $ky+ users have never heard of TiVo, let alone used one... or they wouldn't be $ky+ users :p:D

Paul_J

02-21-2008, 11:22 AM

Does anyone have an update on the development of this, I don't seem to have seen it mentioned for some time.

Pete77

02-21-2008, 01:32 PM

Does anyone have an update on the development of this, I don't seem to have seen it mentioned for some time.

I don't know what exactly is happening.

It does seem odd to give your competitors warning of something you are not yet ready to launch and so then give them the time to respond by the time you are in a a position to actually get your own product out in to the market place.

On the other hand perhaps they wanted to test out how much positive user appetite there was for such a proposal before finally committing themselves.

Logically the UK and the rest of the former western EU countries ought to be the first area to launch given that they are technology aware and cash rich but have no current physical Tivo PVR product available. A launch in the USA and Canada ought to be bottom of the list of priorities given that there is relatively little need for the product with the S3 Tivo already being available.

Maclynn

02-21-2008, 03:44 PM

Tivo on a Windows platform? It seems like one step forward and two back.
Digital and multiple tuners great but how reliable.

Pete77

02-21-2008, 04:26 PM

Tivo on a Windows platform? It seems like one step forward and two back.

Digital and multiple tuners great but how reliable.

Very reliable if Windows MCE is anything to go by.

Sneals2000

02-22-2008, 05:22 AM

Very reliable if Windows MCE is anything to go by.

Yes - as long as you treat an MCE PC as a standalone device, like a Tivo, and don't use it as a general work PC then it is very reliable in my experience. It is when you start downloading lots of other applications that it starts falling over. If it is just used as a Media Center, with internet connectivity for listings, a decent firewall and antivirus software, and manual windows update installation (so it doesn't reboot during a recording?) I've not had a problem.

iankb

02-22-2008, 08:06 AM

Very reliable if Windows MCE is anything to go by.Surprisingly robust; though I would always advise anybody to use multi-core architecture nowadays.

Using a Hauppage twin-tuner card, Windows and the processor have little to do with the actual recording. As with the TiVo, the card writes directly to disk, via DMA. Don't be tempted to use a cheap card (or a USB tuner) which might (or definitely) use software for recording.

Interestingly, the first machine that I used Vista MCE on managed to run Microsoft Flight Simulator X flat out while recording two programmes. It probably helped that Flight Simulator could only use one of the two Core 2 Duo processors, which it permanently ran at 100%. Nowadays, I use a dedicated machine for MCE.

Vista MCE is quite good at recovering automatically, and you don't need to be logged in to record programmes, or even to service Xbox extenders.

Paul_J

02-22-2008, 08:14 AM

It is my experience with MCE and my xbox as an extender which brought this thread to mind. If only it has some of the TiVo features I have grown to love over the last few years it would be a real contender. With the price of reasonable Duel Core PC's having come down and the price of HDD's having fallen this software based solution could blow sky+ away completely.

Pete77

02-22-2008, 08:15 AM

However Windows MCE runs at the operating system level while the Tivo Nero PC software will be a regular Windows application that has to run in addition to it. I wonder if this will significantly impact reliability?

Surely it would be better for Tivo to have come up with a Linux based application to run exclusively on a standard PC based bit of kit. Although on the other hand some in this forum now seem to argue that the latest Microsoft based operating systems are actually more reliable than the most up to date flavours of Linux...............

And we should not forget that the potential marketplace for a version of Tivo software that can run under a Windows operating system is much larger than one that can run only under Linux or that overtly admits that the dedication of a single PC to the task is required...........

Pete77

02-22-2008, 08:20 AM

It is my experience with MCE and my xbox as an extender which brought this thread to mind. If only it has some of the TiVo features I have grown to love over the last few years it would be a real contender.

Which Tivo like features that are absent in MCE do you miss? As I understand it the only significant omission is the absence of any Windows MCE equivalent of Suggestions?

With the price of reasonable Duel Core PC's having come down and the price of HDD's having fallen this software based solution could blow sky+ away completely.

If only Sky+ did not have proprietary encrypted channels that cannot be recorded on a Windows MCE box unless you are prepared to accept a big reduction in quality by feeding an analogue Sky output in to your Windows MCE machine. Or alternatively by using a Dragon CAM that requires cumbersome regular manual returning of the Sky viewing card to a Sky box in order to update its validity.

iankb

02-22-2008, 08:37 AM

However Windows MCE runs at the operating system level while the Tivo Nero PC software will be a regular Windows application that has to run in addition to it.Vista MCE is no more than an application that runs within Vista. It uses Windows services to schedule recordings and feed Xbox extenders, but then so would Nero.

In addition to my previous post on Vista MCE's apparent robustness, the MCE plugin that I developed in this thread (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=385156) meant that I was running MCE in a development environment (always an overhead) and crashed the MCE UI application many times with stack dumps. However, never once did I interrupt the scheduled recordings that were taking place simultaneously. I was quite impressed (if only with myself by managing to get an off-topic thread linked into this forum :) ).

I definitely think that TiVo would be heading in the right direction to develop a Windows version, especially with the power of Vista's UI, with multi-core processors, and if they provided an official API for developers. However, they might be too late, given that MCE has quite a head start on them, and it is bundled for free in some versions of Vista. They would really have to dig hard to find the extra killer applications.

afrokiwi

03-27-2008, 06:57 PM

katman

03-28-2008, 03:12 AM

Out of interest does anyone know of an HDMI card that will accept / take input from an HDMI set top box .... i am seriously thinking of playing with MCE but only if i can use and HD source. ..... hope this is not too off topic ....

A quick Google found this card http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

However, I think it is more intended for use with Camcorders etc as it includes this on the tech specs page......

Compatibility

The HDMI standard sometimes includes copy protection encryption, such as commonly found on DVD players and some brands of set top boxes. When connected to these copy protected sources, the HDMI specification defines that Intensity cards cannot capture

TCM2007

03-28-2008, 05:32 AM

Out of interest does anyone know of an HDMI card that will accept / take input from an HDMI set top box .... i am seriously thinking of playing with MCE but only if i can use and HD source. ..... hope this is not too off topic ....

Remember what goes down an HDMI cable is not nice compressed MPEG4 or even MPEG2 - it is raw uncompressed HD at staggeringly high bitrates. Only very specialist kit can capture it, you'll need a superfast PC with terabytes of storage, and MCE can't handle broadcast HD in the UK anyway!

Pete77

03-28-2008, 06:14 AM

Remember what goes down an HDMI cable is not nice compressed MPEG4 or even MPEG2 - it is raw uncompressed HD at staggeringly high bitrates. Only very specialist kit can capture it, you'll need a superfast PC with terabytes of storage, and MCE can't handle broadcast HD in the UK anyway!

And anyway there are no current HD broadcasts on digital terrestrial television at the present time.

afrokiwi

03-28-2008, 08:51 AM

Found that card as well but on the spec it says [Microsoft Windows Media Center is not supported.] :-(

A quick Google found this card http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

However, I think it is more intended for use with Camcorders etc as it includes this on the tech specs page......

Compatibility

The HDMI standard sometimes includes copy protection encryption, such as commonly found on DVD players and some brands of set top boxes. When connected to these copy protected sources, the HDMI specification defines that Intensity cards cannot capture

afrokiwi

03-28-2008, 09:15 AM

I live in the Netherlands .... We have a few HD channels supplied by an HD set top box ....

And anyway there are no current HD broadcasts on digital terrestrial television at the present time.

Pete77

03-28-2008, 09:29 AM

I live in the Netherlands .... We have a few HD channels supplied by an HD set top box ....

All is explained now.

We may have HD on DTT here in due course using MPEG4 on one of our Multiplexes but there seems to be a nasty probability of control by Sky Digital and susbcriptions being involved.

afrokiwi

03-28-2008, 01:59 PM

Ok ... so that sort of kills my idea then :-( .. thanks

Remember what goes down an HDMI cable is not nice compressed MPEG4 or even MPEG2 - it is raw uncompressed HD at staggeringly high bitrates. Only very specialist kit can capture it, you'll need a superfast PC with terabytes of storage, and MCE can't handle broadcast HD in the UK anyway!

iankb

03-29-2008, 06:02 AM

Hauppage have a tuner card for HD on satellite, but it won't be MCE compatible.

http://www.hauppauge.co.uk/pages/products/data_novahds2.html

I have no idea what channels it would be able to pick up.

I'm sure that I read that their Freeview cards would now be firmware-upgradeable to HD, when HD is available. It would still need an update to MCE to use it.

I can thoroughly-recommend their Nova T-500, which is 100% reliable, and very efficient; 'though whether the firmware-upgradeable part is true, I've yet to confirm.

Sneals2000

03-29-2008, 07:05 AM

Hauppage have a tuner card for HD on satellite, but it won't be MCE compatible.

http://www.hauppauge.co.uk/pages/products/data_novahds2.html

I have no idea what channels it would be able to pick up.

Without a suitable Conditional Access solution (there are some in both software and hardware now available) there are no UK DVB-S2 HD channels that are broadcasting FTA on Astra 2/Eurobird.

The UK HD stuff is all either FTA DVB-S (BBC HD / Luxe HD) or Encrypted DVB-S2 (Sky HD, C4 HD etc.) The FTA DVB-S HD stuff can thus can be received on most cheap budget DVB-S cards (apart from those with onboard MPEG2 decoding - which are the non-budget type) with no need for a DVB-S2 model. The encrypted stuff is Videoguard DVB-S2 which requires a Videoguard CAM (non-existent), reverse engineered CAM (a few different solutions), or softcam.

There are other DVB-S2 HD services on other European satellites (Astra 1, Hotbird, Astra 3 etc.) that may well be FTA in DVB-S2 - hence the availability of the card.

I'm sure that I read that their Freeview cards would now be firmware-upgradeable to HD, when HD is available. It would still need an update to MCE to use it.

Freeview DVB-T cards needed no firmware updates to work on the BBC/ITV/C4/Five HD trials in London in 2006/7 and they also work with SVT HD in Sweden.

DVB-S cards can be persuaded to work in MCE by spoofing them to appear as DVB-T tuners - but only for MPEG2 content. MCE doesn't understand H264 video - as used for nearly all HD in Europe - so SVT-HD via DVB-T and BBC HD/Luxe TV via DVB-S don't work in MCE - you have to use a different application to view them.

HOWEVER - it is likely that the UK will be going DVB-T2 for HD via Freeview which is likely to require new hardware AIUI. If we go for the new BBC mixed H+V polarisation solution we'll also need new active aerials and definitely need new PC cards/USB/Firewire solutions. (The BBC solution allows for far more bandwith to be used - at the expense of new aerials)

I can thoroughly-recommend their Nova T-500, which is 100% reliable, and very efficient; 'though whether the firmware-upgradeable part is true, I've yet to confirm.

The Nova-T is great for Freeview - I've had an MCE machine with one in running for ages and it just works. It looks unlikely that it will work for HD in the UK with DVB-T2.

For laptops I can recommend the Happuage Nova-T DT / Elgato Diversity solution - it can work in either dual tuner or single-tuner with diversity (tunes both tuners to the same mux fed from different aerials and switches dynamically between streams to minimise errors - great in hotel rooms!)

Sneals2000

03-29-2008, 07:17 AM

All is explained now.

We may have HD on DTT here in due course using MPEG4 on one of our Multiplexes but there seems to be a nasty probability of control by Sky Digital and susbcriptions being involved.

Think you are confusing the proposed Sky Picnic service - which has initially dropped H264 (often called "MPEG4" - though this is misleading) in its proposals and the proposed shift to DVB-T2 H264 for Mux B for HD. Initially they were hoping to drop their three SD services - Sky Sports News, Sky Three and Sky News and reuse the data for four encrypted SD H264 services at a lower data rate allowed by the improved H264 compression. However last I heard Sky were proposing MPEG2 SD encryption (bit like Setanta and TopUpTV) for three services instead - with a suggestion that they would wait for a combined HD/SD H264 receiver standard before shifting to SD H264 for their encrypted stuff.

However Ofcom may not be looking favourably on a move of more Freeview stuff to encryption - as they daren't weaken the Freeview proposition too much...

The plan is for five of the six UK DVB-T muxes to switch to 24Mbs 8k 64QAM from the current mix of 4 x 18 Mbs 2k 16QAM (BBC and NGW) and 2 x 24Mbs 2k 64QAM (ITV/C4 and Five) with the SD services reallocated from 6 muxes to 5, with the 6th reallocated to a higher bitrate DVB-T2 H264 HD mux.

I've heard absolutely no suggestion that the HD mux will be encrypted and anything to do with Sky.

Sneals2000

03-29-2008, 07:22 AM

And anyway there are no current HD broadcasts on digital terrestrial television at the present time.

In the UK.

Sweden has SVT-HD using H264 720/50p on DVB-T - though they are likely to be shifting this to a VHF DVB-T2 mux I believe to roll it out nationwide. (It currently shares a mux with Finnish language TV in certain regions only) When I was there in January this year I was able to receive and watch SVT HD using my Macbook and Elgatoe EyeTV3 software with no problems. A few dropped frames here and there - but the recordings play back fine on my PC and Popcorn Hour HD streamer box connected to my HDTV.

France is also launching a number of HD H264 DVB-T channels I believe - TF1/M6 are suggested broadcasters I've heard likely to be launching.

The UK is likely to be waiting for DVB-T2 and analogue switch off before switching the existing muxes from 2k and a mix of 16 and 64QAM to 8k and 64QAM DVB-T and switching Mux B to DVB-T2 H264 HD.

How long DVB-T2 tuner cards and H264 support in MCE are away - who knows...

Sneals2000

03-29-2008, 07:26 AM

Surprisingly robust; though I would always advise anybody to use multi-core architecture nowadays.

Using a Hauppage twin-tuner card, Windows and the processor have little to do with the actual recording. As with the TiVo, the card writes directly to disk, via DMA. Don't be tempted to use a cheap card (or a USB tuner) which might (or definitely) use software for recording.

Interesting - I've had no problems running MCE with dual USB DVB-T tuners on a relatively low powered machine. It wasn't doing much else - but it didn't cause any problems.

Also the FireDTV Floppy and Fire TV interfaces that use Firewire are very widely regarded as the best solution for getting DVB-S (including Sky with the right CAM) integrated into MCE without using a set top box - and I've not heard of any problems with them either.

Given the relatively low data rate of most SD MPEG2 streams - less than 8Mb/s or 1MB/s - I think most systems can cope with USB and Firewire cards as well as PCI these days.

iankb

03-29-2008, 07:58 AM

Interesting - I've had no problems running MCE with dual USB DVB-T tuners on a relatively low powered machine. It wasn't doing much else - but it didn't cause any problems.I just like to minimise the potential problems, when I might be running software compilers, or Microsoft Flight Simulator X, at the same time as two scheduled recordings are taking place, and there are two independent streams to XBox extenders. Flight Simulator would grab 100% of a cpu, so the potential problems with some software-based solutions was somewhat higher.

On a laptop, you don't have much choice, but then you are less likely to be running such a heavy workload.

Sneals2000

03-29-2008, 11:28 AM

I just like to minimise the potential problems, when I might be running software compilers, or Microsoft Flight Simulator X, at the same time as two scheduled recordings are taking place, and there are two independent streams to XBox extenders. Flight Simulator would grab 100% of a cpu, so the potential problems with some software-based solutions was somewhat higher.

On a laptop, you don't have much choice, but then you are less likely to be running such a heavy workload.

Was thinking about this a bit more.

The Nova-T 500 PCI card is effectively a dual tuner USB device integrated with a PCI USB2 bus controller on the same card isn't it? Or that is how it appears when you install it as you get USB device found messages for the tuners as the installation continues. Does this differ massively from an external USB2 solution?

(Contrasting with the earlier Hauppauge stuff which installed as a bizarre virtual network device with a separate control interface for tuning?)

BTW - have Microsoft fixed the 60Hz-only HD bug in the 360 Extender yet? I gave up using the 360 as an extender a while back as it wouldn't display 50Hz video at 50Hz in HD mode. Wondered if they'd fixed it yet...

(The laptop recording and watching an H264 720/50p HD stream and recording a different stream was pretty stressed - but both recordings were clean)

iankb

03-29-2008, 01:12 PM

The Nova-T 500 PCI card is effectively a dual tuner USB device integrated with a PCI USB2 bus controller on the same card isn't it? Or that is how it appears when you install it as you get USB device found messages for the tuners as the installation continues. Does this differ massively from an external USB2 solution?Good question. You may well be right, but I do wonder whether the USB interface is only used to handle the IR controller.

BTW - have Microsoft fixed the 60Hz-only HD bug in the 360 Extender yet? I gave up using the 360 as an extender a while back as it wouldn't display 50Hz video at 50Hz in HD mode. Wondered if they'd fixed it yet...I only have CRT TV's connected to my extenders at the moment, and so I'm not using HD-mode. I had it set to 50Hz but, annoyingly, I had to switch it to 60Hz mode to run a game that I borrowed. Wasn't that impressed by the XBox as a gaming console (as opposed to the same game on a PC), so decided that my XBox should rest on it's extender laurels for the moment. Will try again when I finally get a large LCD screen in my lounge.

Sneals2000

03-29-2008, 02:18 PM

Good question. You may well be right, but I do wonder whether the USB interface is only used to handle the IR controller.

I think both tuners appeared separately - but that machine is in bits at the moment...

I only have CRT TV's connected to my extenders at the moment, and so I'm not using HD-mode. I had it set to 50Hz but, annoyingly, I had to switch it to 60Hz mode to run a game that I borrowed. Wasn't that impressed by the XBox as a gaming console (as opposed to the same game on a PC), so decided that my XBox should rest on it's extender laurels for the moment. Will try again when I finally get a large LCD screen in my lounge.

I think I'm likely to go for a proper (and quiet) extender if they support 50Hz properly. If not I'm likely to go Sage TV...

Now does anything other than MythTV (I think) - properly support Freeview Playback (metadata, series link, split record, alternate instance, delayed start etc.) That would be a major selling point for me...

TCM2007

03-29-2008, 04:53 PM

BTW - have Microsoft fixed the 60Hz-only HD bug in the 360 Extender yet? I gave up using the 360 as an extender a while back as it wouldn't display 50Hz video at 50Hz in HD mode. Wondered if they'd fixed it yet...

No and yes. No, the 360 is still broken, but the new standalone extenders from Linksys and D-Link work properly at 50Hz. These also have the advantage of being fanless and completely silent.

Edit: saw your last post.

I have the Linksys 2200 and I think it will be the core of my system in my new house. The interface is a bit juddery with some animations due to its processor being significantly below the 360s power, but the silence, HDMI, and 50Hz more than make up for it. Oh, and its Vista only.

Sneals2000

03-30-2008, 06:56 AM

No and yes. No, the 360 is still broken, but the new standalone extenders from Linksys and D-Link work properly at 50Hz. These also have the advantage of being fanless and completely silent.

Edit: saw your last post.

I have the Linksys 2200 and I think it will be the core of my system in my new house. The interface is a bit juddery with some animations due to its processor being significantly below the 360s power, but the silence, HDMI, and 50Hz more than make up for it. Oh, and its Vista only.

That's good news.

Does it output 1080p (i.e. de-interlace internally) or just 1080i (i.e. pass through the off-air video untouched)?

Also does it have hardware support for H264 (i.e. will it be able to cope with freesat once MCE starts supporting DVB-S/S2 and H264 in the next release?)

martink0646

03-30-2008, 07:29 AM

I think I'm likely to go for a proper (and quiet) extender if they support 50Hz properly. If not I'm likely to go Sage TV...

I'm not saying it's the perfect solution, but have a look at xLobby.

Martin

Sneals2000

03-30-2008, 07:54 AM

I'm not saying it's the perfect solution, but have a look at xLobby.

Martin

Thanks Martin - but that looks more like an HTPC front-end. What I'm trying to decide is which thin client type solution (XBox 360 is too noisy and doesn't do 50Hz HD properly, HD Extenders may be a solution if they are H264-ready in preparation for DVB-S/S2 HD support) that is quiet, networkable and integrates properly with a Live TV (DVB-T and/or DVB-S/S2) and recording back-end, again ideally with a broadcast - not download - EPG.

Sage TV, Windows Media Centre, Myth TV and GBPVR may all be candidates, but the cost and noise of multiple HTPCs (and the boredom of boot up times etc.) preclude them as a solution.

TCM2007

03-30-2008, 08:11 AM

That's good news.

Does it output 1080p (i.e. de-interlace internally) or just 1080i (i.e. pass through the off-air video untouched)?

Also does it have hardware support for H264 (i.e. will it be able to cope with freesat once MCE starts supporting DVB-S/S2 and H264 in the next release?)

I don't know about 1080i pass through as I don't have a 1080p TV at the moment, but my guess would be that it forces all output to the set output resolution - there's no equivalent in the menus to SkyHD's Auto mode.

It is supposedly capable of H.264, although the only test files I had were in an MKV wrapper, which it doesn't support.

Sneals2000

03-30-2008, 09:09 AM

Yep - the DLink 750 seems to have H264 support and it has two modes of operation - Media Center Extender and DLink Media Lounge - and I guess the latter is more flexible than Media Center...

If that supports HD at 50Hz then I could be interested.

TCM2007

03-30-2008, 11:41 AM

I'm not sure Media lounge adds any other codecs.

Sneals2000

03-30-2008, 12:21 PM

I'm not sure Media lounge adds any other codecs.

I was under the impression that MCE only streamed MPEG1/2/WMV9 (and the .ts streaming of MPEG2 has been removed so that it is now programme streams only?) and possibly now some Divx stuff? My understanding is that MCE doesn't stream H264 - whereas the Media Lounge software will?

Not sure what containers it supports - to be useful it would need .ts/.m2ts support for my archive of H264 off-air recordings of BBC HD.

TCM2007

03-30-2008, 12:43 PM

That's true on the 360, but these new ones support H.264 in .m2ts and XVid in an AVI package, although with a bunch of restrictions about supported profiles.

I haven't tried it myself yet - just got the thing up and running quickly as a proof-of-concept, but I'm running MCE2005 as my main media center and the upgrade to Vista is a bigger challenge than I want to take on right now with my life being just packing one box after another...

Sneals2000

03-30-2008, 01:43 PM

That's true on the 360, but these new ones support H.264 in .m2ts and XVid in an AVI package, although with a bunch of restrictions about supported profiles.

Ah - I had heard about the AVI XVid support but not the .m2ts support for H264. That presumably allows AVC HD recordings (and other HD sources) to be streamed using Vista Media Center. Wonder how picky it is... I've used TSRemux to remux by BBC HD stuff - but one recording every so often won't support FF/REW on the Popcorn Hour or PS3...

I haven't tried it myself yet - just got the thing up and running quickly as a proof-of-concept, but I'm running MCE2005 as my main media center and the upgrade to Vista is a bigger challenge than I want to take on right now with my life being just packing one box after another...

Know the feeling...

Have just installed a trial of Windows Home Server in a gash SFF PC I had knocking around. Be interesting to see how well it works - was a breeze to install (once I'd downloaded the NForce drivers for the Ethernet interface - had lost the motherboard driver CD)