What's the Deal with the HD on TBS-HD

[Turtleboy]

So I was flipping through and landed on Family Guy on TBS-HD. For some reason they streched the show so it fit the HD screen. It looked horrible.

Why would they do this? Why would they take a normal SD 4:3 show and stretch it to fill a rectangular screen?

Who is this being marketed to? Who wants to watch this?

I don't get it.

[terpfan1980]

TBS, TNT and a batch of other channels (mostly from Time-Warner if memory serves) are guilty of STRETCH-O-VISION.

I hate it. HATE IT. HATE IT!!!

Did I say yet that I hate it? :D

Anyway, I wish they'd put their stretcher up their rear and stop using it, but until enough people complain about the stretched crap on there, they aren't likely to change.


Much like the idiots that are running the Smithsonian HD channel and their insistence on leaving the stupid channel logo/bug down in the corner of the screen with the opague HD and Smithsonian sunflower. Yick. Again, I wish the people that did this stuff would be taken out back and flogged, but it ain't gonna happen until enough people complain.

[Turtleboy]

But why?

What's the point?

Why take a non-HD show like Family Guy and stretch it? Who wants to watch that?

Why take a show like the office, and instead of showing the HD version, show the SD version stretched?

On the latter, they may save money, but on the former? Why?

[jdfs]

Even worse is that they are stretching HD/Widescreen shows too. The Office is widescreen, but they get the letterbox version and then stretch it. Just leave it letterboxed or get the right version, or zoom it!!

[IJustLikeTivo]

Because they are both cheap and stupid. They want credit for HD but aren't willing to pay for HD programming. So, the think people want a full 16:9 screen so they use stretchorama.

[Eddie501]

I don't understand this either. Isn't just about every widescreen TV it able to stretch a normal picture on it's own? Why not let the viewers decide if they want to ruin the picture or not? There's no way to undo it if it's fed that way.

This leaves me with only the choice of watching the compressed SD channel if there's something I want to see. Or better yet, doing what I've already done & block the channel completely until they figure out how to present their programming correctly.

[Turtleboy]

Is this similar to Wal-Mart or Blockbuster insisting for years in only stocking Pan and Scan movies? That they think that people won't like "black bars?"

I dunno.

[TonyD79]

Yes, you got it, Turtleboy.

When they announced TBS HD they said they were going to give a "consistent entertainment experience." Meaning no shifting from widescreen to bars and back. They think their customers are too stupid to learn the difference. And given it is TBS, maybe they are right.

The only HD on TBS so far has been baseball and performance shows (Ellen, Blue Collar Tour, Frank Caliendo Comedy Concert...Frank TV is stretched SD).

[LoadStar]

Is this similar to Wal-Mart or Blockbuster insisting for years in only stocking Pan and Scan movies? That they think that people won't like "black bars?"

This is precisely it. I read an interview once with the head of TNT; they actually spent all sorts of money trying to "perfect" the stretch technique they use, which actually is a non-linear stretching technique (meaning even if you have a TV that can unstretch the picture, you still end up with a distorted image).

[terpfan1980]

I'm amazed that the people involved with the shows haven't blown a gasket or two over the distortion of the images. If I'm an actor or actress, I don't need to be made to appear fat or have my flaws stretched on the screen. I wish that there was more effort to educate the public that the product they get from TBS and TNT (and A&E and others that use these stupid stretching techniques) is flawed and distorted, but until there are many bags of mail hitting the desk of the people that run these channels, I don't think they'll change.

[jsmeeker]

I never had a problem getting original aspect ratio DVDs from BB. Never, ever.

[JLucPicard]

This is precisely it. I read an interview once with the head of TNT; they actually spent all sorts of money trying to "perfect" the stretch technique they use, which actually is a non-linear stretching technique (meaning even if you have a TV that can unstretch the picture, you still end up with a distorted image).
Exactly - this is the guy who feels that it isn't HD unless it fills the entire 16:9 screen, so it fits the whole screen.

I've seen some people post that they actually prefer it that way - "If I have an HDTV, I want the whole screen utilized", etc.

I have seen sooo many more people who would much rather see the program in it's original aspect ratio - even if that means bars on the sides or top/bottom. I happen to be one of those - what the heck is High Definition about a picture that is distorted into unnatural shapes?????

[dswallow]

TNT-HD is a simulcast of TNT; if you want the original unadulterated version, tune to TNT.

[Turtleboy]

To me, stations are in the business of making money.

I won't watch the channel because of it, and I think that's true of a lot of people.

Are there enough people clamoring for distorted pictures?

I just don't get it.

[jsmeeker]

To me, stations are in the business of making money.

I won't watch the channel because of it, and I think that's true of a lot of people.

Are there enough people clamoring for distorted pictures?

I just don't get it.

I think they are outweighed by the "I want my screen filled" people.

[TonyD79]

This is precisely it. I read an interview once with the head of TNT; they actually spent all sorts of money trying to "perfect" the stretch technique they use, which actually is a non-linear stretching technique (meaning even if you have a TV that can unstretch the picture, you still end up with a distorted image).

And you will wind up vomiting from motion sickness if you watch too much....I am not kidding, the odd stretching on the edges makes me physically ill.

[TonyD79]

TNT-HD is a simulcast of TNT; if you want the original unadulterated version, tune to TNT.

With crappier picture. You can't win for losing.

What is wrong with uprezzing 4:3?

[TonyD79]

I think they are outweighed by the "I want my screen filled" people.

I actually think no one knows that. They are just guessing.

After the pandering to 4:3 TVs with DVDs look what happened. "Fullscreen" (what the hell does that mean anyway in the dawn of 16:9 TVs?) is falling way behind OAR in the DVD world. If people really wanted their screens full then OAR would have lost long ago.

[dswallow]

With crappier picture. You can't win for losing.

What is wrong with uprezzing 4:3?

It shouldn't be a "crappier" picture; it should be the picture it is supposed to be. And your receiver or display should upconvert if so desired. Or are you still with DirecTV? There I can understand the crappy picture comment since most of their SD channels are over-compressed still. But ultimately that should change.

Personally I think that an HD channel should switch formats based on the programming on at any given time... if they've got 480i/480p content, then that's how it should go out to the viewers, and when they have 720p or 1080i content, that's how it should go out.

[LoadStar]

It shouldn't be a "crappier" picture; it should be the picture it is supposed to be.
The upconverting that TNT can do is always going to be a cleaner, higher quality image than anything that a consumer can do. First, the consumer has to work with a 480i analog picture (or whatever DTV/Dish is) as a starting point, so you're already at a disadvantage. TNT can upconvert directly from the broadcast masters without having to wade through generational loss.

Second, the upconverting processors that TNT would be using are likely going to be much, much better than anything an average consumer would have at their disposal.

[dswallow]

The upconverting that TNT can do is always going to be a cleaner, higher quality image than anything that a consumer can do. First, the consumer has to work with a 480i analog picture (or whatever DTV/Dish is) as a starting point, so you're already at a disadvantage. TNT can upconvert directly from the broadcast masters without having to wade through generational loss.

Second, the upconverting processors that TNT would be using are likely going to be much, much better than anything an average consumer would have at their disposal.
It's debatable that consumer-level upconversion is noticably inferior... at least the current generation.

Both Dish and DirecTV lower the resolution to something like 480x480; DirecTV does wierd things like adjust detail on the edges of the frame to enhance the compression performance, too, figuring that it's only in the "center" of the image that the best detail should be maintained.

Anyway, there's significant blame to be placed on DirecTV or Dish Network for deliver significantly less of the SD signal than is provided to them by the programmer. That doesn't mean that should be acceptable to anybody, though.

[dianebrat]

I actually think no one knows that. They are just guessing.

After the pandering to 4:3 TVs with DVDs look what happened. "Fullscreen" (what the hell does that mean anyway in the dawn of 16:9 TVs?) is falling way behind OAR in the DVD world. If people really wanted their screens full then OAR would have lost long ago.

I'm there with aspect ratios..
I mean I'd rather see a 4:3 show in completely restored status but in 4:3 then having it in stretch-o-vision.

I mean.. just think of it.. 3 Stooges in 16:9? the mind boggles at the travesty.

[mrdbdigital]

Having previously worked for Turner Broadcasting, I can address a few of the issues raised in this thread.

First of all, TBS-HD only shows special events and baseball in true HD because the infrastructure for TBS-HD has not yet been converted to HD. Their hand was forced by DirecTV, and they have not yet had time to convert their plant, but it is in the works. This will come in time.

Second, the executive in charge of the networks likes stretch-o-vision, and is adamant about keeping it. The engineers who work there (that I am still in touch with as they are personal friends) are really against the stretch-o-vision, but they say that management is entrenched with it. The only thing that is going to change this policy is for the viewers to start complaining by mail and on the individual channel websites, or by calling.

BTW, all the programming, except for live events, on all the Turner networks runs from video servers. The original programming is digitized into the servers and also duplicated on DVD's for redundancy. They have 2 servers running in parallel (each network) for fault tolerance with a massive set of commercial DVD changers running all the DVD's. All of this is under control of a computerized automation system. The only manual switching is when they do the credit squeeze backs at the end of the shows.

If a server has a problem, there is a seamless switch to the backup server, then to the DVD if that server croaks. To my knowledge, the DVD backups have never seen air. They are anal about redundancy at that place; even the video paths are redundant to the satellite uplink facility. And, of course, everything is powered by massive, commercial UPS systems. In fact, they run on the UPS batteries all the time, and have the batteries kept in a state of full charge by the power supplies. All backed up by generator power as well.
All in all, it's a pretty sweet system. I'd hate to think of how many millions of dollars they have invested in all this.

I just wish they would worry more about their viewers and get rid of stretch-o-vision. I think the only hope is that the main person pushing this will someday leave the company. They are, however, somewhat responsive to viewer complaints. Remember the blinding yellow TNT bug of a few years ago? It only lasted a short time because they received so many viewer complaints, which is why they made it less bright and more transparent.

[terpfan1980]

Having previously worked for Turner Broadcasting, I can address a few of the issues raised in this thread.

First of all, TBS-HD only shows special events and baseball in true HD because the infrastructure for TBS-HD has not yet been converted to HD. Their hand was forced by DirecTV, and they have not yet had time to convert their plant, but it is in the works. This will come in time.

Second, the executive in charge of the networks likes stretch-o-vision, and is adamant about keeping it. The engineers who work there (that I am still in touch with as they are personal friends) are really against the stretch-o-vision, but they say that management is entrenched with it. The only thing that is going to change this policy is for the viewers to start complaining by mail and on the individual channel websites, or by calling.

BTW, all the programming, except for live events, on all the Turner networks runs from video servers. The original programming is digitized into the servers and also duplicated on DVD's for redundancy. They have 2 servers running in parallel (each network) for fault tolerance with a massive set of commercial DVD changers running all the DVD's. All of this is under control of a computerized automation system. The only manual switching is when they do the credit squeeze backs at the end of the shows.

If a server has a problem, there is a seamless switch to the backup server, then to the DVD if that server croaks. To my knowledge, the DVD backups have never seen air. They are anal about redundancy at that place; even the video paths are redundant to the satellite uplink facility. And, of course, everything is powered by massive, commercial UPS systems. In fact, they run on the UPS batteries all the time, and have the batteries kept in a state of full charge by the power supplies. All backed up by generator power as well.
All in all, it's a pretty sweet system. I'd hate to think of how many millions of dollars they have invested in all this.

I just wish they would worry more about their viewers and get rid of stretch-o-vision. I think the only hope is that the main person pushing this will someday leave the company. They are, however, somewhat responsive to viewer complaints. Remember the blinding yellow TNT bug of a few years ago? It only lasted a short time because they received so many viewer complaints, which is why they made it less bright and more transparent.

Summarized to say: WRITE IN AND COMPLAIN, both via electronically and by snail mail, and also call in and complain. Perhaps that will get the idiot executive to see the error of their ways. :up:

[terpfan1980]

Contact information that I could find: tbsinfo@turner.com (for TBS)

tnt@turner.com (for TNT)

Turner Broadcasting Phone: 404-827-1700

[terpfan1980]

What I'm writing in:
Dear programmers and executives at Turner networks -

Congratulations on chasing away viewers like myself. Your channels were recently added to the High Definition offerings of DirecTV, but unfortunately your channels continue to exhibit poor judgement in distorting the video images that you send to your customers.

These distortions cause motion sickness and grossly change the images that are sent to customers such that the actors and actresses and other materials that are shown during non-sporting events are unwatchable.

While I would love to support your programming and watch your networks, until you end this insanity and pass along an unmolested image, I can not and will not watch your channels in either HD or standard definition.

I am also encouraging everyone else that I can to write in with similar concerns and complaints in the hopes that perhaps you will finally realize that airing these horrible distortions is not what your customers are looking for on your channels.