FIOS TV pixellation fix - attenuate to SNR 31

[AbMagFab]

Since I was the first person to post this, and we've since seen this fix nearly everyone who has tried it, I'd like to recommend we sticky this?

Problem: Pixellation with FIOS TV, usually on a fixed set of channels at a time (often one or two frequencies), but the channel "block" can also sometimes move after a while.

Why: Since FIOS TV goes from fiber to coax right at your house, there is virtually no signal loss from the source. This means you can have a signal as hot as 10-15db. While this is "within specifications", it appears that it's too hot for the Tivo (more likely, there are other factors that trigger this issue as well, but it's all related to being such a strong, hot signal).

Symptoms: Other than the obvious pixellation, the most notable objective symptoms are in the Diagnostics screen. Most notably, the "RS Uncorrected" count will skyrocket when on a bad channel. Sometimes it will start at 0 and stay there for a few minutes, but once it gets hit, it just shoots through the roof (like 100's of thousands). RS Corrected will also count up, but that's not really an issue by itself. If you change channels (off the frequency) and then change back, it might stick at 0 for a few minutes, then it will skyrocket again. Sometimes, it's time of day related, where it will be fine at noon, but at 4pm it's skyrocketing again. Often you won't see any problem on the cable box, cable DVR, or TV w/cable card, even at the same time on the same channel.

Potential fix: It seems that the Tivo tuners are more sensitive than the cable box tuners and even TV tuners with cable cards. While SNR by itself, technically, isn't a fix, it's the best indicator for a fix. On the diagnostics screen, you want to look at the SNR number (not the cable card ones, the tuner ones). Usually this will be in the high 30's. For FIOS TV and Tivo HD/S3, the "magic SNR number" appears to be 31. So you want to attenuate your signal down so that the SNR is 31. Even at 32/33, the pixellation will continue. While you will see your signal strength drop, as long as it stays above ~45, you should be fine.

Where to buy: You can buy in-line attentuators from a number of places, just do a google search. They are about $2/each, or less in bulk (10 or more). I suggest you get a mixed bag, like a few each of 10db, 6db, and 3db to give you some flexibility in how much you attenuate the signal at each Tivo.

Installation: Just plug in line, in the coax (they screw in to the coax end). You can do this right before the Tivo (best for testing this fix), or you can do it at the source, and then tweak a little bit at each Tivo (install one more if needed, since cable lengths can cause variable attenuation).

Non-FIOS problems: While this might work for people without FIOS, it's less likely since this is due to too strong a signal. Most pixellation (IMO) other than this are due to any number of factors, including too weak a signal, dirty hubs between you and the CO, and a bad source signal.


That's it. This has fixed a dozen or so people since I've posted it and been tracking it, so I think we can officially say this is a fix for at least a good number of people who have tried it.

[bkdtv]

Repost...

Steps to Fix

Order a pack of attenuators. These screw on to the end of the coax.

http://www.smarthome.com/7800.html

Verizon issues these same attenuators to installers, but most do not know to use them for TiVos.


Find a channel with pixelization.


Once you've found a channel with pixelization, open Settings -> System Information -> Diagnostics. With this screen, you can monitor your SNR and number of RS Corrected and RS Uncorrected errors.

Your goal is to eliminate the RS Uncorrected errors and the fluctuation in the SNR. A few occasional RS Corrected errors are fine; it is the RS Uncorrected Errors that indicate pixelization.


Disconnect the coax cable from the TiVo.

Note the process of disconnecting and reconnecting the coax will result in a lot of RS Uncorrected and RS Corrected errors, but don't worry about that. Only worry about errors that increment after the cable is firmly connected.


Most seem to require -10dB to -16dB of new attenuation. A few require as much as -20dB. I would start with -20dB and work your way down.

Screw one -20dB attenuator onto the end of the coax cable. Then reconnect the coax back to the TiVo.


Is the problem fixed? Wait 60 seconds. Have the RS Uncorrected errors stopped incrementing on the Diagnostics screen?


If not, or you aren't getting a picture, disconnect the coax again and repeat using one -10dB attenuator and one -6dB attenuator.

Is the problem fixed? Wait 60 seconds. Have the RS Uncorrected errors stopped incrementing on the Diagnostics screen?


If not, disconnect the coax again and repeat using one -10dB attenuator and one -2dB attenuator.

Is the problem fixed? Wait 60 seconds. Have the RS Uncorrected errors stopped incrementing on the Diagnostics screen?


If not, disconnect the coax again and repeat using a single -10dB attenuator.

Is the problem fixed? Wait 60 seconds. Have the RS Uncorrected errors stopped incrementing on the Diagnostics screen?


If not, disconnect the coax again and repeat using a single -6dB attenuator.


By now, the problem should be fixed.

You may want to check a random channel in each QAM block to confirm the problem is eliminated on all channels. I would suggest you test the channels below:

one local SD channel (ex: NBC)
one local HD channel (ex: CBS-HD)
one national SD channel (ex: USA)
one national HD channel in the lower QAM block (ex: FOOD-HD or HGTV)
one national HD channel in the QAM block (ex: MHD or SHO-HD).
If you ever see stutter on the Tivo that is not accompanied by RS Uncorrected errors on the Diagnostics screen, that can be fixed with a Settings -> Reboot. I've had the studder issue occur twice since July and a reboot fixed it each time. This issue should be eliminated completely with the next Tivo software update.

[JonHB]

Add me to the list of people that have fixed this problem by using an attenuator.

I came home tonight and turned on the TV and the channel currently on (KTLADT/805) was severely pixelated. Ahh, perfect opportunity to work on this. Good thing I ordered those attenuators a couple of weeks ago!:p

I put on a -10 dB and it brought my signal to -31dB. RS uncorrected stopped dead in its tracks! Whoo hoo!!

Follow the instructions given in the first 2 posts of this thread and you will fix your problem completely.

Thank you AbMagFab & bkdtv for documenting this so well.

[litkaj]

You've got to be careful with this as it's very possible when working top-down that you've fixed a few channels and broken others. Make sure that you check one channel from each frequency.

[rlawson4]

Where do you buy and ATTENUATOR? Do you have a model # so I can see if Amazon has one.

[bkdtv]

Where do you buy and ATTENUATOR? Do you have a model # so I can see if Amazon has one.Instructions and order details are in the second post.

http://www.smarthome.com/7800.html

[rlawson4]

Thank. Much appreciated.

[joysbox]

grrr, want to try this, but I only have problems in PLAYBACK mode, I haven't seen any pixilation in live tv. I only really get to see tv about 2 hours a day at best. Any suggestions?
j

[richsadams]

Nice work AbMagFab and bkdtv. :up: FIOS is coming to our neighborhood soon (buh-bye Comcast). Hopefully things will be fine, but your info will be a good addition to my toolbox in case something comes up.

[yunlin12]

Not sure if it applies for FiOS, but is there a signal strength indicator anywhere in your system? I'm on Comcast with hidh speed internet, and if I go to http://192.168.100.1/, I can see a web page served by the cable modem reporting these statistics. Mine says about 34 SNR, and an inbound signal strength of 12dBmV. My electrical engineer gut feeling is that both the signal strength and the SNR need to be tuned correctly to make the receiver work right. I think of the signal strength as a DC signal, and SNR as the AC signal. But without knowing the industry definition for these measurements, it's hard to say what's best.

Here's a link to AVS post about using cable modem to see signal strength info:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12405367#post12405367

[bkdtv]

The TiVo or Motorola DVR is the only signal strength indicator.

Verizon FiOS does not use modems. Fiber connects to the box on the side of your house (or in your basement), and from there you have ethernet output.

[evlg]

You've got to be careful with this as it's very possible when working top-down that you've fixed a few channels and broken others. Make sure that you check one channel from each frequency.

How do I know which channels are on a frequency? How many frequencies do I have? Do I just have to try every single channel on the TiVo?

[bkdtv]

How do I know which channels are on a frequency? How many frequencies do I have? Do I just have to try every single channel on the TiVo?The channels are grouped together as follows:

National SD channels
Local SD channels
Local HD channels
National HD channels - low (ex: Food HD, HGTV)
National HD channels - high (ex: MHD, SHO-HD)

You can check a few channels from each group.

[AbMagFab]

The channels are grouped together as follows:

National SD channels
Local SD channels
Local HD channels
National HD channels - low (ex: Food HD, HGTV)
National HD channels - high (ex: MHD, SHO-HD)

You can check a few channels from each group.

Not really. The channels are grouped about 10 per frequency (SD) and 2 per frequency (HD).

You can see the frequency of the channel on each card on the diagnostics screen.

[AbMagFab]

You've got to be careful with this as it's very possible when working top-down that you've fixed a few channels and broken others. Make sure that you check one channel from each frequency.

No you don't. I wish you "theory" folks would stay in your own threads.

If this appears to fix the problem for you (as described quite dramatically by people in this thread), then it's fixed. The problem doesn't move around because of the attenuation.

Stop spreading FUD, please.

[AbMagFab]

How do I know which channels are on a frequency? How many frequencies do I have? Do I just have to try every single channel on the TiVo?

It doesn't matter. If you don't notice the problem anymore, it's fixed.

[bkdtv]

Not really. The channels are grouped about 10 per frequency (SD) and 2 per frequency (HD).

You can see the frequency of the channel on each card on the diagnostics screen.I think you misinterpreted my comment. There isn't likely to be much difference between two adjacent QAM channels, so my suggestion was to check a handful of channels from different blocks. Verizon groups channels in QAM blocks as I indicated above.

If you were going to check one channel from each block after installing an attenuator, you might check for pixelization (or RS Uncorrected errors) on USA, your local NBC (SD), your local CBS (HD), FOOD-HD, and SHOHD or MHD.

[jmr50]

In spite of flushing $50 on AbMagFab's last suggestion (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=352788) for macroblocking problems (the ill-advised just-amp-it idea), I decided to give this one a try, because some of the measurements I'd collected suggested we were overdriving the TiVo. And, thankfully, it actually does seem to have helped the problem - 16dB of attenuation has worked great for 2 weeks now, and still going strong, with no side effects on any channels. If you're sitting on the fence, I can give a resoundingly positive vote. And, it was a cheap fix, too.

[AbMagFab]

In spite of flushing $50 on AbMagFab's last suggestion (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=352788) for macroblocking problems (the ill-advised just-amp-it idea), I decided to give this one a try, because some of the measurements I'd collected suggested we were overdriving the TiVo. And, thankfully, it actually does seem to have helped the problem - 16dB of attenuation has worked great for 2 weeks now, and still going strong, with no side effects on any channels. If you're sitting on the fence, I can give a resoundingly positive vote. And, it was a cheap fix, too.

Nice to see you just throw money at problems without thinking. Glad to help.

Did you consider doing some problem solving yourself? Naw, that's too gosh darn complicated for you country-folk.

For what it's worth - amping is a solution for some problems, and attenuation is a solution for other problems. Amazing!

[FiosUser]

I have fixed my Fios + Tivo Series 3 pixelation problem this way.

I added two 3 and one 8 attenuators to the back of my Tivo. Problem solved. (I had pixelation on TNT and TBS).

[dgbretz]

Does it make any sense to have pixelation without any RS Uncorrected Errors? I have seen pixelation and then checked the diagnostics and not seen any errors.

I plan to try the attenuators to get to the 'right' SNR anyways but would like to understand why I don't see errors reported.

[litkaj]

No you don't. I wish you "theory" folks would stay in your own threads.

If this appears to fix the problem for you (as described quite dramatically by people in this thread), then it's fixed. The problem doesn't move around because of the attenuation.

Stop spreading FUD, please.

Yes, you do. It's not "theory" and it's certainly not FUD. The original problem is not moving; the new problem is occurring because certain channels are now too weak to tune properly. I know this can happen as it happened to me two months ago.

I started getting some breakups and pixelation on 459MHz through 477MHz (digital versions of 1-49 and all of the Music Choice channels). When running a cable directly to the ONT didn't help I figured the signal might have been too strong.

I broke out the collection of attenuators I had the install tech leave me when the CableCARDs were first "installed" and went to work. 459-477 cleared up with anywhere between 15-20dB of attenuation. However, at anything more than 17dB the channels in the low 700's started flaking out. I backed off to -16dB and now everything is fine.

[sflippen]

:up:
I just began having severe pixelation problems three months after installation. I was not aware of this suggestion on the forum. I thought that based on a varying signal strength (TiVo-provided) from 70-90% and sometimes all the way to 0 (lost lock), I was looking at a bad cable or a problem with incoming signal. The VZ HD STB worked fine, which was mildly frustrating when reporting the problem.
I insisted it was not a "TiVo" problem and requested a tech dispatch to check signal levels. She was proud to show me the results which were, "Excellent"!
Fortunately, there was a video SME, Sean, at the VZ Hampton FSC that was aware of the issue and advised to install the attenuator. The problem is solved!

[vfrjim]

Thanks for the fix, I had an adjustable Attenuator from Radio Shack hanging around, I attached it and adjusted it till it said 31 db(down from 38 db) and no more pixelization on my Tivo with Fios.

[richsadams]

Thanks for the fix, I had an adjustable Attenuator from Radio Shack hanging around, I attached it and adjusted it till it said 31 db(down from 38 db) and no more pixelization on my Tivo with Fios.Thanks for the update and welcome to the forum. :up:

I don't have any real macroblocking problems, but I have one of these and wondered if it is the same thing you're using JIC.

http://i6.tinypic.com/4y5h01y.jpg

[vfrjim]

Thanks for the update and welcome to the forum. :up:

I don't have any real macroblocking problems, but I have one of these and wondered if it is the same thing you're using JIC.

http://i6.tinypic.com/4y5h01y.jpg

looks like it but mine is black in color

[litkaj]

I've been looking for one of those for a while. Anyone know where to get one? Radio Shack doesn't sell them any more.

[richsadams]

I've been looking for one of those for a while. Anyone know where to get one? Radio Shack doesn't sell them any more.When the OP mentioned the device it reminded me that I had something like it that I actually purchased years ago to address a red-push issue I had with a Mitsubishi RP TV I used to have. (It didn't really help.) For whatever reason I kept it in my box of electronic "stuff".

I don't have FIOS (:mad:) but I do have a very strong signal (35db - 37db) from Comcast and get some macroblocking on a couple of HD channels (NBC in particular). I thought about attenuating the incoming signal to see if it would make any difference and vfrjim's post peaked my interest.

I doubt that this little device will help much...it's pretty cheaply made and not very precise. I suspect that usng dedicated attenuators as others have suggested is the way to go but it might give me an indication if making some adjustments will work. I'll report back once I've given it a try.

I thought that RS might still be selling them based on a similar post from a few months ago.

[bizzy]

Wow, I thought I was probably the last person in the world using a mitsu rptv :)

Are you still waiting for your "Promise" Module? :)

[richsadams]

Wow, I thought I was probably the last person in the world using a mitsu rptv :)

Are you still waiting for your "Promise" Module? :)Ha! Good one! I just wish I had kept it now...it was "HD Ready" after all. :rolleyes:

[threshar]

Well, I tried this fix, but I don't think this is my problem.

When I tune into say, PBS-HD the signal stays at 100 and SNR is pretty solid at 35-36db and I get no hiccups, pixelation, gray screens.

However, when I tune into say, Showtime-HD the signal strength goes crazy - it jumps from 0-100 and the SNR jumps around accordingly, and I get lots of hiccups.

Now, when this is happening, I can't tune into a channel in the same block - say StarzHD. But tuning into a local-hd channel works fine. signal goes back to sanity.

I tried various levels of attenuation (Luckly my pal had a similar problem and had a bag of them so I just borrowed them) from 24db to 3. nothing helped. a bit of attentuation may have reduced it a bit, but it still was going crazy.

Today for an experiment I'm going to move the tivo downstairs where the, oh lets call it, the virgin line comes in and see if it is the run verizon did from there to my livingroom. Still odd it mainly affects stations such as sho-hd. (I'd wager it has something to do with increased bandwidth usage).

I also get gray screen syndrome on some regular (SD) channels as well, but it is intermitent. (When it tunes in, I just get a gray screen. I'd wager it is very much related to the signal strenth issue).

and for the record, the line goes ont->40' outside->inside->splitter->tv1 and another 30' run to tv2. The tv1 has a -4 vz installed on it. the other has nothing. Verizon ran all the cables.

well, here's to hoping I can solve it. Really annoying when I get gray screen syndrome or none of my movies record or are pixelated.

[richsadams]

Well, I tried this fix, but I don't think this is my problem.

When I tune into say, PBS-HD the signal stays at 100 and SNR is pretty solid at 35-36db and I get no hiccups, pixelation, gray screens.

However, when I tune into say, Showtime-HD the signal strength goes crazy - it jumps from 0-100 and the SNR jumps around accordingly, and I get lots of hiccups.

Now, when this is happening, I can't tune into a channel in the same block - say StarzHD. But tuning into a local-hd channel works fine. signal goes back to sanity.

I tried various levels of attenuation (Luckly my pal had a similar problem and had a bag of them so I just borrowed them) from 24db to 3. nothing helped. a bit of attentuation may have reduced it a bit, but it still was going crazy.

Today for an experiment I'm going to move the tivo downstairs where the, oh lets call it, the virgin line comes in and see if it is the run verizon did from there to my livingroom. Still odd it mainly affects stations such as sho-hd. (I'd wager it has something to do with increased bandwidth usage).

I also get gray screen syndrome on some regular (SD) channels as well, but it is intermitent. (When it tunes in, I just get a gray screen. I'd wager it is very much related to the signal strenth issue).

and for the record, the line goes ont->40' outside->inside->splitter->tv1 and another 30' run to tv2. The tv1 has a -4 vz installed on it. the other has nothing. Verizon ran all the cables.

well, here's to hoping I can solve it. Really annoying when I get gray screen syndrome or none of my movies record or are pixelated.Sorry you're having troubles...it can be very frustrating. It may or may not be true in your case, but if you're getting a solid signal on some channels but not on others I'd call Verizon. It may have something to do with your setup or it could be a cable card issue...or it may (probably?) be something outside of your home.

We went through the same thing a while back...some channels were perfect while others were a mess or didn't work at all. When we called the CSR had us tune to various channels and finally isolated which "block" was giving us problems. They did some work on their end (no truck roll or anything) and in about an hour everything was fine. They may have re-hit our cable cards or it mght have been something else. :confused:

The CSR explained that channels are delivered within certain frequencies. The frequencies aren't necessarilly related to the channels themselves (i.e. Showtime and Starz may or may not be part of the same group). That's why some will work normally and others won't.

Thanks for keeping us posted and let us know what you find out. :up:

[TexasAg]

My pixelation was minor at the prior attenuation level, but I went ahead and added more attenuation to my S3. But, the SNR varies from station to station. If I get one down to 32, others will drop to 30. I finally put in enough to get most stations down around 31-33. The weird thing is that it drops the signal strength down into the 70s, but the S3 seems OK with it. I think I might be seeing a little less pixelation now.

[rifleman69]

I've applied a 12 and a 6 so far, which drops the SR from 36-37 to 34-35. Either of the 12 and 6 reduces all uncorrected errors (and just about all of the corrected one's too) but every now and then I get a blip where the video freezes for about 2-3 seconds and then catches up. Having no attenuators makes both corrected and uncorrected shoot off into the hundreds of thousands very quickly.

Probably put on another 10-12 just to make sure, most of the individual channels strengths are still just under 100 if not at 100.

[rifleman69]

Now have 12 + 6 + 6 on and the SNR appears to fluctuate between 30 and 32. Couple of non-corrected errors on a non-HD channel (about 30 in the span of a couple of hours). Still noticed a little glitching on FOX HD last night during the football game.

It's getting better but not 100% yet. Signal strength is definitely not an issue.

[Chris3G]

am i correct in assuming that when you guys have a pixelation problem on a particular channel, it happens regardless of what is on the screen at the time? I've been noticing some macroblocking on my new TV with FIOS and Tivo HD, but it only happens during scenes with heavy motion. Is this inherent to the feed and not what you are all talking about here? My signal strength is locked at 100 and SNR is 36/37, but both RS corrected and uncorrected are always at 0.

[rifleman69]

For me, it doesn't matter what's happening on the particular channel although there is some sort of movement going on (it's not Sunrise Earth)

[sesmith3]

Ahhhh the Mitsu Promise Module... "Promise" as in Mitsubishi promises to lighten your wallet for another $1000 as soon as you decide you can't live without an HD tuner..

[litkaj]

am i correct in assuming that when you guys have a pixelation problem on a particular channel, it happens regardless of what is on the screen at the time? I've been noticing some macroblocking on my new TV with FIOS and Tivo HD, but it only happens during scenes with heavy motion. Is this inherent to the feed and not what you are all talking about here? My signal strength is locked at 100 and SNR is 36/37, but both RS corrected and uncorrected are always at 0.

If RS Uncorrected is at 0 then that is in the feed. Some of the channels, such as DiscoveryHD, aren't broadcast at quite as high a bitrate as others (such as HDNet).

[SGR215]

I have an unusual issue. I'm noticing no pixelation so far however, I do notice at times "RS Uncorrected" will have 100+ when I first switch to a channel. It won't go any higher after it has tuned to the channel and I notice no issues in the feed whatsoever. Is this normal?

The vast majority of the time "RS Uncorrected" stays at 0 along with "RS Corrected".(There are times RS Corrected jumps to 3000 though) My signal hovers between 35-37DB.

Edit: Pixelation has arrived. Attenuators are on the way so hopefully it'll be fixed when they arrive. :)

[SGR215]

Hopefully someone can help me out. I installed a 6db attenuator when I first got them and everything seemed fine. 0 Corrected and 0 uncorrected RS errors. Today I suddenly noticed one of my HD channels was pixelating constantly and sure enough the RS Uncorrected errors was spiking significantly. I installed another 3db attenuator and now I'm not seeing any RS Uncorrected errors however, I'm seeing a lot of RS Corrected errors. For example, in 553 seconds I've had 4900+ RS corrected errors. Should I be concerned about this? I also can't attenuate to SNR 31 exactly. It hovers between 31-34db. If I put any more attenuators on it begins to pixelate bad and go into the mid 20's.

[TexasAg]

I also can't attenuate to SNR 31 exactly. It hovers between 31-34db. If I put any more attenuators on it begins to pixelate bad and go into the mid 20's.

My S3 has done really good, and I'm between 31-33db.

[richsadams]

My S3 has done really good, and I'm between 31-33db.That seems to be the sweet spot. I've noticed that when I see issues the signal is usually 35 and above...sometimes up to 37. :eek:

[rifleman69]

I find 32/33 is better overall for all channels than 31. 31 left UHD and Discovery HD Theater at 28/29 which was totally unwatchable. 32/33 leaves everything between 31 and 34 which works just fine for me. It definitely was not exponential as tuning down 1 or 2 put a few channels down 3 or 4. Trial and error.

[kmalone576]

I've had FIOS with my S3 since last summer with no problems until past few weeks - severe pixelation on some channels not others that did not occur with the Verizon STB I also have. Tech came out and attenuated my signal which seemed to fix it. But I still have some problems on different channels... funny thing is I noticed in the diagnostics screen that one tuner has no problems on some channels and the other has a lot on the same channel (RS uncorrected skyrockets and severe pixelation). Does this sound like now I have a bad cable card on top of the other problem that I thought was fixed? Not looking forward to have to set up another appt for a new cable card install. Or does anyone think since I had a long period of no problems and nothing seems to have changed on Verizon's end that my S3 might be the problem?

[bkdtv]

I've had FIOS with my S3 since last summer with no problems until past few weeks - severe pixelation on some channels not others that did not occur with the Verizon STB I also have. Tech came out and attenuated my signal which seemed to fix it. But I still have some problems on different channels... funny thing is I noticed in the diagnostics screen that one tuner has no problems on some channels and the other has a lot on the same channel (RS uncorrected skyrockets and severe pixelation). Does this sound like now I have a bad cable card on top of the other problem that I thought was fixed? Not looking forward to have to set up another appt for a new cable card install. Or does anyone think since I had a long period of no problems and nothing seems to have changed on Verizon's end that my S3 might be the problem?You may need more attenuation. As far as I know, CableCards do not cause RS Uncorrected errors, which is how TiVo measures the errors causing pixelization and dropouts.

It's best to buy your own $12 attenuator pack from Smarthome rather than asking Verizon to come out. That way, you can find just the right amount of attenuation that you need.

[kmalone576]

You may need more attenuation. As far as I know, CableCards do not cause RS Uncorrected errors, which is how TiVo measures the errors causing pixelization and dropouts.

It's best to buy your own $12 attenuator pack from Smarthome rather than asking Verizon to come out. That way, you can find just the right amount of attenuation that you need.

So its possible that the current level of attenuation is good for one cable card but not the other? In other words for example channel 99 works fine on one cable card/tuner but is horribly pixelated on the other. I have some extra attenuators that the verizon tech left for me to play around with if I had other problems, but I would expect that the signal should affect both cable cards the same, but I could be wrong. Thanks for any advice!

[kmalone576]

Well I don't quite understand it, but I changed around the attenuation some more and now channel 99 works on both tuners... the verizon tech had put on an 8 and a 6 resulting in SNR of 27 on the tuner that was having problems with 99 and 29 on the other. I changed it to an 8 and a 3 now one is at 30 the other at 31 and so far so good. Thanks to whoever figured this out - the verizon tech seemed to realize a too hot signal was the problem, but did not about the tivo diagnostics screen.

[rifleman69]

Yeah, SNR of 27 is way too low. Being higher is better than lower in this case.

[AndyMorrison]

I have FIOS and am using a Series 3 and two TiVo HDs with S-cards. This morning on the Series 3 the reception of Fox Soccer Channel deteriorated to the point that nothing was being received. On the diagnostic screen it appeared that the TiVo was unable to get a signal lock and the modulation indication kept changing from QAM-256 to QAM-64. After about 25 or 30 minutes, during which I did nothing, the channel finally came in and was mostly watchable after that. Since I was recording the program on one of the TiVo HDs in another room I assumed that when I watched the recording I would see the same problem as the Series 3. However, the recording was perfect with no signal loss or pixellation. Does this sound like a 'too hot' signal or is it more likely a problem with my Series 3? BTW, I've seen pixellation before on the Series 3 but I don't recall ever losing the signal completely.

[darthplagueis86]

I have done the reccomnended fix, putting on 10DB antenuator, whch fixes my pixelation on the majority of my channels. However, there are a few remaining channels that I watch a lot that have major problems still (ABC HD). My SNR is at 31/32, but I have RS correct numbers/RS uncorrected numbers in the 500-5000 range most of the time on that one channel. I have tried resetting my tivo, that didn't work. I have a good strong signal according at the verizon cable guy. Why is this still happening on this certain channel? Any sugesstions?

[rifleman69]

Try an 8, remember not every channel comes in at the same SNR.

[richsadams]

I have a good strong signal according at the verizon cable guy.Welcome to the forum and sorry you're having trouble, it can be frustrating indeed. The problem is that your signal may be too strong which is just as bad as one that is too weak. Verizon assumes the stronger the signal the better. That's why an attenuator works for some folks...it reduces or "attenuates" the signal strength.

As rifleman69 suggests, additional experimentation may be in order.

[darthplagueis86]

Welcome to the forum and sorry you're having trouble, it can be frustrating indeed. The problem is that your signal may be too strong which is just as bad as one that is too weak. Verizon assumes the stronger the signal the better. That's why an attenuator works for some folks...it reduces or "attenuates" the signal strength.

As rifleman69 suggests, additional experimentation may be in order.

I have tried every possible antenoator combo and I seem to still have this problem. I've narrowed it down to the 9/10DB strength level, that brings down my SNR number to 32/33. I still can't get rid of the RS corrected and RS Uncorrected numbers to go away on some channels. Most of the channels are fine, but some, including some major HD channels, like ABC HD, Universal HD, Discovery HD Theater, are still having pixelation problems. My signal stength says it's around 75. Is there anything else I can do to fix this, or I may have to go back to my old verizon cable box, since it wasn't a problem there.

[richsadams]

I have tried every possible antenoator combo and I seem to still have this problem. I've narrowed it down to the 9/10DB strength level, that brings down my SNR number to 32/33. I still can't get rid of the RS corrected and RS Uncorrected numbers to go away on some channels. Most of the channels are fine, but some, including some major HD channels, like ABC HD, Universal HD, Discovery HD Theater, are still having pixelation problems. My signal stength says it's around 75. Is there anything else I can do to fix this, or I may have to go back to my old verizon cable box, since it wasn't a problem there.It sounds like you've done everything you can do to address the signal issue. I'd have a look at the cable cards next. There have been reports for months of cable cards being faulty (particularly Scientific Atlanta cards) and especially with slot #1. Many have had numerous cable cards installed before they worked without issue. I can't remember if you said which TiVo you have, but if you have the TiVo HD, some folks are switching from two "S" cards to an "M" card and seeing results.

When we moved recently our cable guy brought about a dozen cards with him saying that some work and some don't...and that getting them to work was kind of a Russian roulette game. :rolleyes: Fortunately two "S" cards worked right away with our S3 and a new "M" card worked fine with our THD.

Anyway, that would be my next step. It's also quite possible that your TiVo is just not doing what it's supposed to do and may need to be replaced. You might get a case started with TiVo. Sometimes they'll arrange a three-way call with you and Verizon to try to sort things out.

Best of luck!

[rifleman69]

I have tried every possible antenoator combo and I seem to still have this problem. I've narrowed it down to the 9/10DB strength level, that brings down my SNR number to 32/33. I still can't get rid of the RS corrected and RS Uncorrected numbers to go away on some channels. Most of the channels are fine, but some, including some major HD channels, like ABC HD, Universal HD, Discovery HD Theater, are still having pixelation problems. My signal stength says it's around 75. Is there anything else I can do to fix this, or I may have to go back to my old verizon cable box, since it wasn't a problem there.

Call TiVo and explain your problem. Another thing to note (at least for me) is that a single 12db attenuator had more signal degradation than a 10 and a 3. My picture was better at 32/33 than 31. You might also have Verizon come out and turn down the signal a bit on the ONT that's on your house.

[darthplagueis86]

Well, the Verizon cable guy came out today, and he said I should not be using any attenuators at all, that just makes the problem worse. I agree with him, because ever since I started using them, my picture has gotten worse, and even doesn't come in on certain channels, and that's with just 8db on. He boosted the signal strength, which as temporarily solved the pixelation, but we will see how long it lasts. He also changed a splitter and wiring in our hose, and said that may have been the cause. I will monitor the progrees the next few days, and hopefully the problem has been fixed, but after many tries, and 4 different cable appointments, I am not sure it is completely gone.

[richsadams]

Well, the Verizon cable guy came out today, and he said I should not be using any attenuators at all, that just makes the problem worse. I agree with him, because ever since I started using them, my picture has gotten worse, and even doesn't come in on certain channels, and that's with just 8db on. He boosted the signal strength, which as temporarily solved the pixelation, but we will see how long it lasts. He also changed a splitter and wiring in our hose, and said that may have been the cause. I will monitor the progrees the next few days, and hopefully the problem has been fixed, but after many tries, and 4 different cable appointments, I am not sure it is completely gone.Good to hear things are looking up. :up:

Curious as to what you're seeing for SNR on various channels now that the signal has been increased.

Also noted that a number of folks have resolved problems by replacing coax and/or splitters (or removing splitters altogether) and that others were successful with attenuators. It's obvious that there's no obvious "silver bullet".

Thanks for the feedback and best of luck.

[ChickenCheese]

I started seeing some pixellation after my install, so I installed a 10 and a 6 attenuator (the SNR was around 35-36). It dropped to about 33 and for the most part, the problems went away. However, I've been noticing that some times the audio part drops out for a second or two (video stays unaffected). When this happens, I go to the diagnostic screen to look, but there wasn't any uncorrected errors.

Any ideas what could be causing this?

The audio dropouts seem to happen when I change to certain channels. And then the dropouts only last about 5 minutes. So if I'm watching a hour long show, I'll only have problems for about the first 5 minutes. Then it's fine. :confused:

[darthplagueis86]

Good to hear things are looking up. :up:

Curious as to what you're seeing for SNR on various channels now that the signal has been increased.

Also noted that a number of folks have resolved problems by replacing coax and/or splitters (or removing splitters altogether) and that others were successful with attenuators. It's obvious that there's no obvious "silver bullet".

Thanks for the feedback and best of luck.

Well, after 2 days of the problem going away, it is slowly, but surely returning again. My SNR number is at 35/36 on all of my channels, and I have 0 RS corrected numbers and 0 RS uncorrected numbers. I am only getting pixelation on about 3/4 of my HD channels, but after the cable guy came two days ago, it was fine on all channels. I have a feeling that it will progressively get worse again. When the cable guy came, I told him that Tivo said my cable cards are activated, but not paired up, and he said he had no clue what that means. He also said that the attenuators are making my problem worse, and that RS corrected numbers are not causing this either. I am really doubting the knowledge of Tivo and Verizon at this point, because both have been giving me the runaround for weeks. I am at a loss at to what I should do next. I am am considering even returning Tivo, and just going back to the regular verizon HD box. Any last minute advice?

[richsadams]

Well, after 2 days of the problem going away, it is slowly, but surely returning again. My SNR number is at 35/36 on all of my channels, and I have 0 RS corrected numbers and 0 RS uncorrected numbers. I am only getting pixelation on about 3/4 of my HD channels, but after the cable guy came two days ago, it was fine on all channels. I have a feeling that it will progressively get worse again. When the cable guy came, I told him that Tivo said my cable cards are activated, but not paired up, and he said he had no clue what that means. He also said that the attenuators are making my problem worse, and that RS corrected numbers are not causing this either. I am really doubting the knowledge of Tivo and Verizon at this point, because both have been giving me the runaround for weeks. I am at a loss at to what I should do next. I am am considering even returning Tivo, and just going back to the regular verizon HD box. Any last minute advice?SNR of 35/36 (or higher) is above the "sweet spot" of 31/32. It may be enough to cause problems. Cableco's are famous for just increasing the signal strength rather than fine-tuning it to the ideal. I'd have another go with the cable guy again...and this time ask for someone that understands cable cards and TiVo. If it was good for a while, something is changing to cause problems. It may well be that something is wrong with TiVo but until everything is right from the cable company, that will be hard to determine.

If you have a TiVo case number, keep it open and if you can't get satisfaction from the cableco ask TiVo for a three-way call so you, the cableco and TiVo can all be on the line at the same time.

Hang in there...it can work! With four-million + subscriptions I guess there will be some problems and it's too bad that you (or anyone) has to go through these sorts of things. You have my sympathy and I wouldn't blame you if you bailed, but it might be worth another look.

[ilh]

Hold on a sec. If he is seeing 0 uncorrected RS errors, how can this be a signal problem (too hot)?

[AbMagFab]

SNR of 35/36 (or higher) is above the "sweet spot" of 31/32. It may be enough to cause problems. Cableco's are famous for just increasing the signal strength rather than fine-tuning it to the ideal. I'd have another go with the cable guy again...and this time ask for someone that understands cable cards and TiVo. If it was good for a while, something is changing to cause problems. It may well be that something is wrong with TiVo but until everything is right from the cable company, that will be hard to determine.

If you have a TiVo case number, keep it open and if you can't get satisfaction from the cableco ask TiVo for a three-way call so you, the cableco and TiVo can all be on the line at the same time.

Hang in there...it can work! With four-million + subscriptions I guess there will be some problems and it's too bad that you (or anyone) has to go through these sorts of things. You have my sympathy and I wouldn't blame you if you bailed, but it might be worth another look.


If you see 0/0 on the RS items, then it's a source problem, not a Tivo or signal problem.

[richsadams]

If you see 0/0 on the RS items, then it's a source problem, not a Tivo or signal problem.That's pretty much my take on it too.

[darthplagueis86]

Ok, the cable guy is coming out again(for a 5th time) and I noticed that my RS corrected/uncorrected numbers have gon efrom 0 from last night, now they are at 400-600 range. I will tell the cable guy to check the signal source, as you reccomended. I'll let you know what he does. I hope this works this time!!!

[richsadams]

IIRC the recommend signal strength should be -10 to +10 dBmV with a SNR of 31-32. The tech should be putting a device on the line at the TiVo connection point to measure the signal. To address these issues most cableco's will simply increase the signal strength which may work for their own STB's and DVR's (particularly one's w/o cable cards) but too strong a signal (just as too weak a signal) can cause havoc with TiVo.

The RS corrected/uncorrected numbers indicate a signal/tuner issue for that particular channel at that particular time. It's possible/probable that you would have seen an erratic SNR at that time as well.

[darthplagueis86]

Now my tivo won't even receive any HD channels at all. I called tivo, they insists that the cable cards need to be paired up, then I call verizon to ask them to pair them up. Verizon will not provide any support at all because it is a tivo product, and the cable cards have already been swaped, the lines have been checked, and the signal is fine. So basically, I have no service at all on my tivo hd channels, and neither compnay will help me out. I have a $800 tivo box, which does not work, and it not eliglbe for return. What to do???

[ciucca]

Now my tivo won't even receive any HD channels at all. I called tivo, they insists that the cable cards need to be paired up, then I call verizon to ask them to pair them up. Verizon will not provide any support at all because it is a tivo product, and the cable cards have already been swaped, the lines have been checked, and the signal is fine. So basically, I have no service at all on my tivo hd channels, and neither compnay will help me out. I have a $800 tivo box, which does not work, and it not eliglbe for return. What to do???

Did you try the attenuator work around? You can order from smart home.

[darthplagueis86]

yes, no luck..just made things worse. on the right now with tivo/verizon trying to get my cable cards paired up...that is what tvio says will fix the problem, but verizon will not pair them up, just activate them. This is hell!!

[ciucca]

let us know what happens. As far as I know Verizon does not pair the cards to the device. In the CC menu on my TIVO, in "the conditional access" menu. The "host validation" is unknown 00. I would be interested to know if pairing actually makes a difference. I have heard that Verizon is not able to pair the cards at this time in their system, but may be able to by the end of the year.

[ochlocracy]

I’ve been working on trying to solve my problems for weeks now, and I think I finally got this band-aid fix to work. I’ve done a lot to get my Series 3 & Tivo HD to work with FiOS. I just wanted to make a post here with all the information I’ve collected because I think it could help lead to a more permanent fix.

When I first got my series 3back in June I had pixilation on almost all my SD channels, none on my HD. After a month or so it went away on it’s own and worked great up until Dec. Since Dec. I’ve had the problem on about a dozen SD channels, still all of the HD are fine. After reading through all of the information here I found the attenuator fix, but was unable to find the correct combination. I’d get to the point where pixilation occurred once every 5 min, instead of once every 5 sec. which was watchable, but that would drop my signal so low that at certain times of the day I couldn’t tune to some channels ie. HD.

Without attenuation my signal is great on my all my channels except the dozen or so that pixilate. The good channels are all above 95, and fluctuate between 95-100 every 3-4 sec. The bad channels are all over the board, and fluctuate typically from 40-100 every sec.

I tried all the things mentioned on the forums; replaced cable cards, replaced splitters, attenuation, ran a direct line to the ONT, replaced the ONT, removed all other devices from the line including ActionTech router, etc.

So I finally started to investigate this further and found out that the channels I have problems with share the same frequencies. I am in the Tampa area and these are the channels that I have problems with on my Series 3 and the frequencies they run on.

Tivo Series 3
Station Freq (Mhz) Channel
Lifetime 435.000 120
Oxygen 435.000 124
Bravo 435.000 165
Nick 435.000 256
History 441.000 108
SOAP 441.000 123
Style 441.000 140
Scifi 441.000 160
A&E 441.000 161
Toon Disney 441.000 221
CNN 447.000 80
CNN-HL 447.000 81
CNN-WN 447.000 86
Cartoon Network 447.000 227
Boom 447.000 228

I haven’t had time to check every channel one by one, but since I started seeing the pattern I was certain now It’s Verizon signal….or some interference in that range…or tivo doesn’t like that range.

I had a Verizon tech out here this morning, and the tech turned out of be an old acquaintance so I jumped at the opportunity to bug the hell of him, probe him for information and ask him for as many favors as I could in order to solve this problem once and for all because I didn’t have any luck with attenuation, and was certain my problems lay with their signal. He admitted he wasn’t the most knowledgably person to talk to about why those frequencies were the only ones that were affected but said he would take any information I had and pass it to someone who would.

I got him to bring out his test meter and plug it into my line. Results showed the signal was anyway from -1db to +2db on the channels he was trained to test, think he said 2, 50, and 2??; so I asked him to punch in 80 and his metered showed -30db, then channel 120 also showed -30s. Now he was unsure if the channel option actually tuned to the actual channel associated for TV signal, but only my bad channels were showing the -30db, everything else was near 0…so... possible more evidence that it’s Verizon’s signal.

We were unable to solve the problem while he was here, but he did leave me another pile of attenuators so I could continue to play musical attenuators.
I printed out all the information we had so he could pass it along to another tech. I’m hoping to get a call tomorrow from another tech that understands the cable system a little better, and it willing to work with me on this TiVo issue assuming its Verizon’s signal.

After he left, I finally decided to see if I could get this attenuator fix to work. I removed all the excess coax and splitters going to other TVs and just focused on my series 3, and after 22.5db worth of attenuation (in the middle of the line, not at the TiVo) it’s the best it’s going to get. There is still pixilation, but it’s minimal, maybe once an hour and my other channels seem to have enough strength @70s with a SNR 32-34. So in my case 31 was not the magic number on my Series 3. (22.5db includes all attenuation from the ONT, all splitters, and attenuators)

After the success with the Series 3 I went to my TiVo HD to try to get rid of the problems on the two channels. Pixilation solved at 20.5db of attenuation, Signal strength @80s, and SNR of 31-32.

While I was trying the attenuator fix I called TiVo support in hopes they had a new answer to my problem since the last time I called. The support agent was interested in the frequencies that were problematic, and asked for all the info I had about them so she could pass it along; but still no new information.

All in all after weeks of trying to tune to SNR of 31 with attenuators, I finally got this fix to work. I still hope to hear from a new tech tomorrow, and try to solve the problem without using so much attenuation, I’ll keep you guys posted. But I’d like to see what channels/frequencies/market others were having their problems I believe it could lead to a more permanent fix.

[ciucca]

I'm am having the same problems with the same frequencies you are, the only difference is that they are mapped to the digital local channels I receive here in NNJ. It's my guess everyone is experiencing problems on the low frequencies, but depending were you are different channels are mapped to them, explaining why it shows up on different channels for different people.

I think it's definitely the low frequency bands that are having the issue. Sorry the attenuation has not worked for you. I am using 16dbmv of attenuation and although I still get low number of uncorrected errors in the QAM freq range you mention, it is barely noticeable, a few hundreds in a about 4 hours time. Keep trying the attenuators you may need a few db more.

Good write up. I'm glad you are keeping on top of the issue. I hope it can be fixed in software, but I'm skeptical, I think it is the QAM tuners TIVO uses. I read somewhere that TIVO uses a consumer grade QAM tuner, and Motorola uses a better one. What else explains why the Motorola STBs don't have nearly the same problem. TIVO probably used cheap tuners to save money. I work in the telecommunications hardware industry and I can't count how many times cheaper hardware chips were substituted to save production costs. The majority of the time it came back to bit them, because the chip did not perform to spec.

[GoHokies!]

Good write up. I'm glad you are keeping on top of the issue. I hope it can be fixed in software, but I'm skeptical, I think it is the QAM tuners TIVO uses. I read somewhere that TIVO uses a consumer grade QAM tuner, and Motorola uses a better one. What else explains why the Motorola STBs don't have nearly the same problem. TIVO probably used cheap tuners to save money. I work in the telecommunications hardware industry and I can't count how many times cheaper hardware chips were substituted to save production costs. The majority of the time it came back to bit them, because the chip did not perform to spec.

Can you explain how test equipment measures all the channels near 0dB except for the "problem channels" (which are at -30dB) is in any way whatsoever related to the tuners that Tivo used in their hardware?

(hint: Not possible. It's a Verizon problem).

[ciucca]

Can you explain how test equipment measures all the channels near 0dB except for the "problem channels" (which are at -30dB) is in any way whatsoever related to the tuners that Tivo used in their hardware?

(hint: Not possible. It's a Verizon problem).

I can only speak to my house were I am having a similar issue. I have tested the signal and although there are signal fluctuations it is no where near a 30db drop. I and many others that have Motorola boxes and TIVO have a problem with the TIVO. Explain that. Logic tells me if the Motorola boxes work and the Tivo does not , then, well what do you think it is ;)

[rschare]

I've read a bunch of these threads. Can someone tell me how to test the attenuation of the signal? Do I do this on different channels? Thank you.

[ochlocracy]

I did some more trouble shooting today trying to narrow down the problem.

I started with the Motorola box. This box sits in a room that no one is ever in so I have not known if there has been any pixilation. Hooked it up; direct line to the ONT no attenuation. So I sat in there watching about an hour worth of TV flipping through the channels, watching the known bad channels for anything. No pixilation occurred during the this time, but I did notice that the pictured appeared to stumble.. Hard to explain, but I figured I was looking to deep into it trying to find anything.

The Motorola box is a SD box attached to an SD TV via composite so I thought maybe composite might handle the problems (if they were there) differently since it’s an analog signal. So I moved to my Tivo HD and hooked it up with both S-video and composite; pixilation still occurred without the correct attenuation.

The Motorola box does pixilate when it is first tuning to any channel, but that’s all I could find. I was also able to make it pixilate when I fiddled with the coax, not necessarily the connections, but just moving it around.

Next I moved onto my Samsung HD TV that had a cable card in the back and had some success. I first ran a direct line from the ONT without any attenuation. Then I stole a cable card from my TiVo HD and put it in the back, and started flipping through the channels. Found some new channels that pixilated, and what do u know the 3 channels I found are all on the same frequency. It appears my HDTV doesn’t like the 777mhz.

So now of my 3 cable card devices, each of them dislikes it’s own frequencies.

Here’s my current list.

Tivo HD
Station Freq (Mhz) Channel
WGN 411.000 9
Comedy 429.000 170

Tivo Series 3
Station Freq (Mhz) Channel
Lifetime 435.000 120
Oxygen 435.000 124
Bravo 435.000 165
Nick 435.000 256
History 441.000 108
SOAP 441.000 123
Style 441.000 140
Scifi 441.000 160
A&E 441.000 161
Toon Disney 441.000 221
CNN 447.000 80
CNN-HL 447.000 81
CNN-WN 447.000 86
Cartoon Network 447.000 227
Boom 447.000 228

Samsung HDTV
Station Freq (Mhz) Channel
FUNIMAT 777.000 231
TVONE 777.000 241
FAMNET 777.000 212

[rifleman69]

I've read a bunch of these threads. Can someone tell me how to test the attenuation of the signal? Do I do this on different channels? Thank you.


Yes, under diagnostics in the tivo menu. You can tune to any channel you receive and you'll see how good of a signal is coming in.

[ciucca]

One interesting thing I noticed last night while troubleshooting a QIP6416 issue.
I was "unscrewing" the cable from the back of the Moto 6416 box and my wife noticed pixelation on the TIVOHD (I have 16db of attenuation on the tivo). I then put the diagnostics screen on the tivo and had my wife remove and replace the 6416 cable in the other room, and the uncorrected and corrected errors started rapidly increasing on the tivo.

I am going to try to turn off all the other moto boxes I have and the router and see if I still get pixelation without the attenuation. It's possible the 2-way communication and/or the moca on the coax is causing interference the tivo can't handle. Has anyone already tried this test? To be able to test this for a 24 hour period I will have to send the family away for a few days :D Just wondering if anyone tried it, before I start fighting with my family.

[GoHokies!]

That's a really good thought.

[ochlocracy]

It's possible the 2-way communication and/or the moca on the coax is causing interference the tivo can't handle. Has anyone already tried this test? To be able to test this for a 24 hour period I will have to send the family away for a few days :D Just wondering if anyone tried it, before I start fighting with my family.


Yeah I had my ONT switched over ethernet for my internet so I didn't have to use crappy ActionTech router with the super small 1KB NAT table. So my 1 motorla box no longer receives guide data, and my internet is no longer on the MoCA.

Didn't fix the problems.

[ciucca]

Well, after literally hours of getting nowhere with DirecTV and having them send out a service tech (who replaced my triple-LNB+multiswitch) to no avail, I have finally found what is going on. If someone at DirecTV can get this to an engineer, I'd be thankful.

To summarize the problem: Following the upgrade to some Series 2 DTiVos from 3.1.1c to 3.1.1d, the odd transponders would not function on one of the inputs. On mine, it was #1, on many people's it was #2. The problem is the same. Sometimes switching cables will solve or temporarily solve the problem. However, most people have not had success with this, including me.

Here's what I believe the problem to be, and a workaround until D* figures out they created the problem with the software upgrade:

The 3.1.1d rev of the software changed the "cobra" driver and removed an option "gHighPowerLnb" from the internals (this forum won't let me post the name of the other one, so you'll need to do a Google search to find where I saw this). In addition, I have built a signal attenuator (see below) that reduces the signal level on the input that cannot address the odd transponders that has worked. It looks to me like they now assume that ALL multiswitches and/or LNBs are "high power" and have increased the signal level. This excessive signal from the DTiVo to the LNB/multiswitch causes it to overload and not function properly.

The solution is for D* to admit there's a bug, put the fire under the rears of their engineers to repair the driver, and get a fix out to their customers pronto. My experiences with them in the past week doesn't give me much confidence in this, but I can only hope...

Anybody remember this fron D* in 2004? The FIOS Pixelation is very similar. I'll bet it is a software issue and it needs to be fixed in the next software release. the temporary fix was signal attenuation. :rolleyes: I guess TIVO is a quality software house.

[psuzebra]

Just wanted to share my experience...

After a couple months of normal use, I started experiencing some issues with my FIOS TV + TiVoHD on Friday night.

826 ESPN HD and 827 ESPN2 HD wouldn't show up. The THD just kept saying something about searching for a signal. 840 Food HD and 841 HGTV HD would experience a lot of pixelation and audio and video dropping. I had originally 13db worth of attenuators in the coax going into the THD to get an SNR of ~31.

I went all weekend hoping the issue would just fix itself. Duh me.

On Monday, I added another 3db attenuator to the line. After a few minutes, 826 and 827 both came in okay and the pixelation on 840 and 841 went away. The SNR is now about 28.

Not sure what changed, but so far so good.

[ilh]

I have 19dB attenuation (10dB attenuator plus 3.5dB 2-way splitter plus 5.5dB 3-way splitter) and am at SNR 35/36. I don't have any pixelation that I can see.

I did see a bit on a few channels when I had only 12dB attenuation and SNR of 38/39.

[ochlocracy]

psuzebra & ilh What frequencies are those channels on in your area?

Tune to channel > Tivo > Messages & Settings > Sys Info > Diag. make sure you're looking at the correct tunner and channel.

[jpeelers]

Went the attenuator route and it has improved the situation but not eliminated it. Best SNR for us has been 34/35. Anything lower and we go to "FAIR". My question relates to errors, however. Uncorrected are pretty much nailed at 0 but correctable errors range from a few hundred to a four or five thousand. Excuse my ignorance - I am a newbie - but is this a problem? If so, what is my next step? Thanks!

Judy

[gguillot]

I have been fighting the same issues with my Series 3 and my fiber-to-the-home provider (GVTC.) No one - I mean the cable company AND Tivo - seem to be able to fix the problem, nor do they seem to care. If you can live with the Verizon's DVR shortcomings, I suggest you get your money back for the Tivo - otherwise you could be like me and still fighting with it a year after you bough it.

[ciucca]

Lets face it. If you want to get rid of the pixelation you are going to have to use the attenuator work around, posted multiple times on this board. If the attenuator trick doesn't work then you are truly F*#$ed.

I know enough about RF and DSP to know that the problem is not the service provider (verizon, comcast, etc), not the signal, it is the Tivo hardware circuitry. I don't care what others on this board think. A majority I believe don't want to face the truth and blame their beloved Tivo Corporation. It's my educated guess that the problem is the Tivo hardware and cannot be tweaked in software, or the QAM tuner driver, otherwise it would have been fixed by now.

If Tivo cared about their customers they would admit it is their fault. They would redesign the QAM tuner circuitry and replace the tuner with a better one (more costly) and offer everyone having the issue an even exchange when the newly designed boxes are available.

I'm sure Tivo is marginally surviving financially and is scared to admit the problem. This is probably the reason they opted for cheap crap hardware to begin with. It's time for the Tivo employees on this board to own up and admit the hardware is unfixable. We all like to rip microsoft, but at least they owned up to the problems in the xbox 360 design and are replacing defective xboxs with a refurbished unit that has an updated motherboard that fixes the issue. I understand that Tivo does not have the financial resources microsoft has, but pretending it is the cable providers problem and sweeping it under the rug is not the answer either. I know 10 people in NNJ having pixelation issues with FIOS and cable, and none are going to ever buy another Tivo again unless something is done. So sticking your head in the sand is not going to make your company last any longer.

Time for TivoPony and other Tivo people here to admit and address the pixelation problem as the sev 1 show stopper issue that it is, and do something about it.

Of course this is my rant, thank you for reading.

[ilh]

I noticed a fair bit of pixelation and uncorrected RS errors on Discovery HD Theater today, channel 836 and 747MHz I believe. It looks like I'll need to try more than 19dB of total attenuation to drop from 35/36dB down to 31ish.

[kmalone576]

So although I posted earlier that I had fixed the problem by adding 11db worth of attenuation, after only a few weeks it appears I was wrong. Yesterday I started notice pixelation on the showtime channels 361,362, etc. Looking at the diagnostics, the SNR was ranging 29-33. I decided to experiment by adding less and more attenuation. Going from 11 to 9 made the RS uncorrected skyrocket... so I tried going to 12. This improved the RS Uncorrected errors (but they still did slowly accumulate). However this small increase in signal attenuation made other channels (e.g. 99 TWC) unwatchable due to pixelation. So with 11 db of attenuation I can watch TWC clearly with pixelation on Showtime and with 12 db of attenuation Showtime is a better (though not perfect) but TWC is unwatchable. The problem with this fix it doesn't fix all the channels. Fortunately I mostly watch the HD channels which all seem okay (right now) with either combination.

This is really getting irritating however. I have a Verizon HD box hooked up to the same TV on a different input and it has no problems on any channel. I could call verizon again and I'm sure they would come out and check it out again, but I have to say if it works with their equipment I think the problem lies with Tivo more than there signal. Maybe their signal is not perfect, but apparently their STB can handle its fluctuations or strength.

Maybe the problem lies with Tivo's ?low quality? tuner as someone suggested. But if I continue to have problems I can't keep playing with attenuators or spend a whole day waiting for a verizon tech to come out or spend hours on hold with tivo tech service only have them tell me the problem must be with Verizon. Nor should anyone have to after spending the money for a S3. I am getting more and more tempted to give up on Tivo and deal with a suboptimal DVR interface rather than a suboptimal picture.:mad:

[ciucca]

If you haven't called Verizon then do it if not then don't waste your time calling them again. They are very nice they will come to your house change everything (wires, cable cards, ONT, etc), but it ain't going to help. It's definitely the tivo, otherwise the tivo people who read this board would speak up and defend their product.

[kmalone576]

I agree - I'm actually quite impressed with the effort that Verizon has put out in order to try to make it work unfortunately there's not much more they can do.

[sturdydog]

Sorry for any cross posting, I posted this in the other Pixelation thread and it was suggested that here might be a better spot as this is Verizon specific.

I too am having pixelation troubles with Verizon FIOS. I have a question I have not seen anybody touch on. I have two TiVos. One Series 3, one HD. The Series 3 works perfect, hardly ever seen a corrected packet and never a an uncorrected one. While the HD has all kinds of issues and many channels are only useable only after 24db of attenuatuation. Believe me all things are equal between the units from a signal standpoint as I have swapped cable cards / cables / splitters everyway possible and the results are the same.

The one thing that I find different between the two is the Series 3 shows Channel Bits: 30750 in the diagnostics screen, while the HD unit shows 30746. What does this number mean? Could this be the cause of my problems?

Can everybody please share what channel bits their system shows and whether or not they are having this problem?

[NovaFIOS]

I have had FIOS since July 07 and have had multiple problems with their Motorola Box. I am on my third box after the previous 2 died, 2 within a week of each other. The box stinks, the software stinks and it craps out way too much. The one thing is that the picture has been really good. The HD is flawless, the SD could be a bit better, but no pixelation or anything.

Because of the problems, I finally decided the time has come to bite the bullet and purchase a TIVO HD to replace the crappy moto box. I have done some research regarding cable cards and attenuation etc, however after reading this thread, I am now really nervous whether the thing is going to work correctly with FIOS. IF i do not get the same perfect picture with TIVO that I was getting with FIOS and I spent nearly $300 on a TIVO, my wife is going to kill me. Did I make a big mistake????

[ciucca]

NovaFIOS,

All I can tell you is if I spent time reading the posts concerning FIOS and TIVOHD I would NOT have purchased it. Everyone rags on the motorola HD boxes you rent from FIOS. I admit they have their problems, but at least they do not pixelate on any channel for me. IMO the pixelation outways all the other issues. Now you can "fix" pixelation if you want to go the attenuator route. It improved my problem 90-95%, but you are taking a risk, that you are one of the few the work around does not help. What area of the country are you in? From the multitudes of posts it's possible some FIOS areas may not have a problem (maybe just a theory).

Again if I know now what I didn't know then, I would have waited, to see if a solution is ever found before spending $300 for the tivo and wireless gizmo, and $200 for the dvr extender. This is the opinion of 1 person.

[bkdtv]

I am in N. VA and had pixelization on a few SD channels. Adding an attenuator eliminated the pixelization on those channels.

If you are really worried, then buy the TiVo locally -- I believe BB and CC both have it for around $250 -- so you can return it if you are in the minority with pixelization issues that an attenuator does not address. You have 30 days to cancel service and return the TiVo without any penalty, aside from the $25 Verizon CableCard installation fee.

You could keep the Motorola DVR in the meantime, if you want. In N. VA, customers are now permitted to drop-off old equipment at Fair Oaks Mall (thus avoiding the pickup fee).

[brigont]

Guys,

Anyone know of an adjustable attenuation module of some sort.

Sure, these fixed db attenuators are a cheap solution. What about an expensive box with an adjustable attenuator control that lets you dial in the exact amount of att you need for perfect reception.

I also like lighting my firepalce with cash and wiping my A**with... well you get the point!

BG

[richsadams]

Guys,

Anyone know of an adjustable attenuation module of some sort. BGAs in these posts (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5820884#post5820884) from earlier in this thread? IIRC someone posted info about a more modern version from RS which included a signal amp but actually attenuated the signal however I can't seem to find it right now.

[sflippen]

You could keep the Motorola DVR in the meantime, if you want. In N. VA, customers are now permitted to drop-off old equipment at Fair Oaks Mall (thus avoiding the pickup fee).

DON'T RETURN any HD equipment to Verizon! They are now "out-of-stock" On their HD STB's and DVR's. I believe they estimate mid-March before they get more in, but they already have a backlog of pending installs.

Hold on to them long enough to confirm you have any trouble, because you won't be able to go pick them up right away if you do!

[sturdydog]

Thought I would give this a little bump as I have not seen any reponse.

I have an HD and a Series 3, the Series 3 works flawlessly and the HD has a lot of pixelation problems. The one thing that I find different between the two is the Series 3 shows Channel Bits: 30750 in the diagnostics screen, while the HD unit shows 30746. What does this number mean? Could this be the cause of my problems?

What Channel bits are the rest of you showing with and without problems?

[bkdtv]

Thought I would give this a little bump as I have not seen any reponse.

I have an HD and a Series 3, the Series 3 works flawlessly and the HD has a lot of pixelation problems. The one thing that I find different between the two is the Series 3 shows Channel Bits: 30750 in the diagnostics screen, while the HD unit shows 30746. What does this number mean? Could this be the cause of my problems?

What Channel bits are the rest of you showing with and without problems?My TivoHD reports 30750 for N. VA FiOS.

I had pixelization on a handful of SD channels but a 10dB attenuator (on top of my other splitters / existing attenuation) eliminated that.

[richsadams]

What Channel bits are the rest of you showing with and without problems?30746 - Series3 w/2 Comcast/Motorola "S" cable cards - No problems
30746 - TiVo HD w/1 Comcast/Motorola "M" cable card - No problems

The only time I note tiling/macroblocking/pixelization is when the SNR is 36+ which is fairly rare and seems to happen on the local NBC channel more than any other.

My results are also posted on this thread (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5995613#post5995613) discussing many of the same issues (w/both FIOS and cableco's) with various suggestions for fixing things that have worked for some.

[kmalone576]

S3 - intermittent problems with 30746

[brigont]

Yes,

This is confirmed. If you are awaiting a Fios install and they have committed to giving you gear then you are ok (although I imagine they would have conducted all the installs with existing equiptment by now and everyone else on the calendar are playing the waiting game).

No HD gear for all new orders and replacements for now...

Brian



DON'T RETURN any HD equipment to Verizon! They are now "out-of-stock" On their HD STB's and DVR's. I believe they estimate mid-March before they get more in, but they already have a backlog of pending installs.

Hold on to them long enough to confirm you have any trouble, because you won't be able to go pick them up right away if you do!

[brigont]

Thanks richard,

But no need... Daisy-chaining three 6db attenuators did the trick. I have been reviewing all recent recordings and don't see macroblocks anymore.

Only time will tell.

Brian

As in these posts (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5820884#post5820884) from earlier in this thread? IIRC someone posted info about a more modern version from RS which included a signal amp but actually attenuated the signal however I can't seem to find it right now.

[NovaFIOS]

I bought my TIVO on AMAZON but they also have a 30 day return policy as well as the TIVO service. I will keep the FIOS Moto Box and do a trial with the TIVO. While I like the TIVO software much better, I agree that pixelation on any channel especially HD would be a show-stopper for me. I just don't understand why Verizon and TiVo can't get their crap together.

Verizon is coming this morning to install the S-Cards. Since I had so much trouble with the previous DVRs they agreed to waive the installation fee. If it works I can return the moto box to the local Verizon Experience Store. If not, I will keep it and return the TIVO.

BTW I am in Northern Virginia. I have read other posts where people say they do not have any trouble? I am starting to wonder if this is a small number of people having these problems or is it everyone.

[Martin Tupper]

I'm with Fios in Falls Church, VA. I had this problem my Series 3. Had to add 18dB worth of attenuation.

Just installed two new TiVoHD's and didn't have to attenuate at all with the same ONT, cable cards, and internal cabling.

[NovaFIOS]

Ok, Verizon came and installed cable cards. The tech was very nice, (helped me hang a picture while he waited for Cards to initialize :) )
First card took a bit, he had to call in and get some help to get the digital channels to show up, but they did come up, second card was up and running really quickly. I think, he was there for approximately an hour.

So far I have not seen any sort of pixellation at all on any channels. I did notice on HD HBO that there seems to be a flicker at the top of the screen which could be annoying but i am going to wait to see if its all the time. Other HD channels were very crisp. Lower SD channels were as good as they were with the Motorola box.

I am treating this as a trial. I have 30 days where I can return my TIVO and stop the service if anything comes up. The tech told me my signal was around 2 (whatever that means). He said a hot signal was around 4 so I shouldnt need any attenuators. I asked for some just in case and he gave me a few and also a splitter. He also gave me his card if I have any problems within the next 3 days.

I also kept the Motorola box so that I can either return it myself, or reinstall it if I decide TiVo aint worth it. So far, it is. I was able to listen to some of my ITunes music the other day through my Home Theater system, sounded awesome, I am going to test the Amazon Unbox thingy, and I have scheduled a few recordings online.

One thing that is a little annoying is that when changing channels sometimes, the screen goes blue for a sec and says "No Signal" then comes back. I think this happens when the video is changing formats - 720p - 1080i etc. Also, when going to the TiVo Screens it does this too. Anyone else experience this? I remember it did this on the moto box too until i adjusted to only be 720p and did the 4:3 override.

Anyway, will let you know how things go.

[NovaFIOS]

Ok, First Night with TIVO HD and FIOS and all I can say is "I FREAKIN LOVE IT". It is flawless, I have had absolutely no pixellation issues on any channel. I solved the channel changing flicker/delay by setting the Video Format to 720P fixed. Although my TV is capable of 1080i, I don't see a difference between 720 and 1080 and I have read some forums where it says 720 is better anyway. (unless you are at 1080P which noone broadcasts in anyway) Incidently, I had my motorola box set up this way as well.

I am now enjoying the wonderful ease and stability of TiVo. I played around with some of the online scheduling features and also ordered an Unbox video, all of which were set up and waiting for me when I got home.

With the use of TiviTunes and the universal audio thingy, I have tested playing some of my iTunes stuff which sounded great through my Audio System. (Good bye CD players).

I am sorry others have had such issues, but I am very very happy right now. I highly recommend switching from the crappy Motorola box. :up:

[richsadams]

I highly recommend switching from the crappy Motorola box. :up:I found one of these to be preferable over the Motorola box we used to have. ;)

http://i27.tinypic.com/2rymvdw.jpg

[ciucca]

Ok, First Night with TIVO HD and FIOS and all I can say is "I FREAKIN LOVE IT". It is flawless, I have had absolutely no pixellation issues on any channel.

I am sorry others have had such issues, but I am very very happy right now. I highly recommend switching from the crappy Motorola box. :up:

All I can say is check back in a month and let us know how it's going :D

[NovaFIOS]

Did you have it working only to have it not working later? :eek: As I said in previous post, I am treating the 30 day return and cancellation as a trial period but from what I have so far experienced, I am very pleased. I kept my motorolla just in case, but i would love to throw that piece of **** under a bus.

BTW, I agree with richsadams ;)

[bkdtv]

NovaFiOS,

Your experience mimics mine, although I did have to add a 10dB attenuator to eliminate pixelization on ~5 SD channels. I never had pixelization on the other SD and HD channels.

The TivoHD should get even better with the software update expected in March.

[NotVeryWitty]

NovaFiOS,
The TivoHD should get even better with the software update expected in March.

bkdtv,

Did I miss the announcement that makes you expect the update in March? (I did see last week's message from TivoPony that said an update was coming some time "soon", but IIRC he didn't promise a date.)

[kmalone576]

I am treating this as a trial. I have 30 days where I can return my TIVO and stop the service if anything comes up.

Just an FYI - my S3 and FIOS worked flawlessly together for more than 6 months (with no attenuators, etc) before I started having pixelation problems requiring playing musical attenuators. So having no problems for 30 days doesn't guarantee it will always work...

[sturdydog]

Just an FYI - my S3 and FIOS worked flawlessly together for more than 6 months (with no attenuators, etc) before I started having pixelation problems requiring playing musical attenuators. So having no problems for 30 days doesn't guarantee it will always work...

My worked for many months as well then had problems for about 2 months and now works flawlessly with no attenuators while my HD unit has problems. Go figure. Personally I think it is software problems as hardware problems would be more consistent in my opinion.

[bkdtv]

bkdtv,

Did I miss the announcement that makes you expect the update in March? (I did see last week's message from TivoPony that said an update was coming some time "soon", but IIRC he didn't promise a date.)TivoPony said they hoped to have the update out just after the Superbowl last month, but that a bit more work was required.

I think March is a safe bet, but I don't have any new information.

[NovaFIOS]

What is the software upgrade supposed to do? Is is supposed to make it more stable?

[bkdtv]

What is the software upgrade supposed to do? Is is supposed to make it more stable?Part of your monthly fee goes toward software improvement to add features / functionality.

TiVo added a revamped wishlist, eSATA external drive expansion, TTG, and MRV with the last software update. The next software update (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5974459#post5974459) is supposed to eliminate bugs and improve performance. From the post above, we should see it very soon.

[ilh]

I added another 6dB attenuation to bring my THD to 25dB (16dB attenuators, 3.5dB 2-way splitter, 5.5dB 3-way splitter) in an attempt to stop errors on 836 (HD Theater, 747MHz). I'm still seeing some corrected errors, but uncorrected seem better than with only 19dB attenuation. I'm finally down to 31-32dB SNR. I must have a beast of a ONT putting out lots of signal.

[bilbo]

i added 10db of attenuation to get my snr down to 31/32. before i got to that value of attenuation, i had no picture with 20db of attenuation (black screen), and i seemed to have pixellation at 16db of attenuation and uncorrected errors were tallying up at 16db (snr was about 27/28 -- did not notice what the signal strength was). it seems to have taken the pixelation i had away (which were occuring on the hd channels only as far as i can tell).

this seems to be a pretty good setting so far -- i didn't try 13db. it sounds like from the comments that 31 or 31/32 is the sweet spot, and 32/33 is still too high. so i guess i am right on the edge, but i'm assuming it is best to use as little attenuation as necessary to correct the problem and get the snr at the "sweet spot."

my pixellation problem has been fairly recent on the hd channels only, however (about the last four weeks -- i recorded lost on both abc's last night and ended up having to watch it in 4:3 standard-def because of pixellation on abchd). i had not had much of any problems before that {at least on the hd channels -- a few channels in the 150-160 standard definition digital range started pixellating about a year ago (i.e. sci-fi; this problem lasted for about four weeks but i believe bkdtv said verizon was doing some work in my area at that time)}.

[kmalone576]

I'm still having pixelation problems.... With the current attenuators, I have a SNR of 34 on one channel (no pixelation) and a SNR of 27-28 on another with bad pixelation. Removing some attenuation improves it on one, but then the 34 goes up and I have pixelation on that channel. Is there anything do to about the wide variation of signal on different channels? Or do I just have to pick which channels I care more about watching on Tivo and watch the others on the Verizon STB which can somehow tune all channels properly?

On a (?maybe) related note, at the home tech store (www.hometech.com) on the page where they sell attenuators, they have something called a satellite inline IF slope equalizer. The description is as follows

"-12dB @ 40 MHz
-5.5dB @ 1 GHz
-0.3dB @ 2.1 GHz

Coaxial cable attenuates high frequencies more than low frequencies. The TSEQ-2150 creates an attenuation loss equal and opposite to cable loss. This problem is most severe when cascading amplifiers one after the other. The signal differences are amplified to a point where the higher frequency signals are so small compared to the low frequency signals that they can no longer be received. The TSEQ-2150 provides a balanced signal level by compensating for the high frequency attenuation and allowing all signal levels on all channels to be of equal amplitude at distant locations. Therefore, the picture quality on higher channels will be maintained. "

Does anyone know if something like this would be of any use in this situation where the signal seems different at different frequencies? I really don't know much about this stuff so this thing may be of no use but it caught my eye.

[richsadams]

I'm still having pixelation problems.... With the current attenuators, I have a SNR of 34 on one channel (no pixelation) and a SNR of 27-28 on another with bad pixelation. Removing some attenuation improves it on one, but then the 34 goes up and I have pixelation on that channel. Is there anything do to about the wide variation of signal on different channels? Or do I just have to pick which channels I care more about watching on Tivo and watch the others on the Verizon STB which can somehow tune all channels properly?

On a (?maybe) related note, at the home tech store (www.hometech.com) on the page where they sell attenuators, they have something called a satellite inline IF slope equalizer. The description is as follows

"-12dB @ 40 MHz
-5.5dB @ 1 GHz
-0.3dB @ 2.1 GHz

Coaxial cable attenuates high frequencies more than low frequencies. The TSEQ-2150 creates an attenuation loss equal and opposite to cable loss. This problem is most severe when cascading amplifiers one after the other. The signal differences are amplified to a point where the higher frequency signals are so small compared to the low frequency signals that they can no longer be received. The TSEQ-2150 provides a balanced signal level by compensating for the high frequency attenuation and allowing all signal levels on all channels to be of equal amplitude at distant locations. Therefore, the picture quality on higher channels will be maintained. "

Does anyone know if something like this would be of any use in this situation where the signal seems different at different frequencies? I really don't know much about this stuff so this thing may be of no use but it caught my eye.

EDIT: Per the OP's post (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6081803#post6081803), this device apparently does NOT work and may cause cable card problems.

Sorry to hear that your signal and TiVo are giving you grief. By your description it's fairly obvious that your incoming Verizon signal strength has a wide disparity between various frequencies. It's apparent that their answer to most situations is to pump out the strongest signal possible. That seems to work for their box but for the moment TiVo and/or the cable cards they supply aren't able to handle it.

I think my first option would be to have Verizon come out and attempt to stabilize their signal across all frequencies as much as possible. I've no idea how or if they can do that, but if you're seeing that much difference it doesn't seem like that would be a normal situation.

Failing that the attenuator you've found may be the perfect answer. I had to do a little digging, but I'm assuming that it's this one (http://www.hometech.com/video/atten.html#PI-TSEQ2150)?

http://i32.tinypic.com/14mqvtd.jpg

Although it's designed for a satellite system I don't see any reason it wouldn't work with a regular cableco signal. The question is, which frequencies are you and/or others seeing problems on. Perhaps someone with some more in-depth experience will chime in?

But for about 10 bucks w/shipping, I think it would certainly be worth a try. If it works you may be in line for the Pioneer Club Founder's Medal of Honor and all of the associated privileges! ;)


EDIT: Per the OP's post (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6081803#post6081803), this device apparently does NOT work and may cause cable card problems.

[kmalone576]

yeah I doubt verizon's going to be able to stabilize the signal - especially since it works with their STB. That was the item I saw, I've ordered it because as you say its cheap and it can't hurt trying it out.

[richsadams]

yeah I doubt verizon's going to be able to stabilize the signal - especially since it works with their STB. That was the item I saw, I've ordered it because as you say its cheap and it can't hurt trying it out.Thanks for keeping us updated. :up: Let us know how it turns out and TIA.

[NovaFIOS]

I am still not experiencing any problems, but my question is, does the TIVO HD work well with Cox cable? If it turns out that I end up with all these problems with FIOS as so many other are, I will switch out FIOS TV before I go back to that horrible moto box.

[bkdtv]

I am still not experiencing any problems, but my question is, does the TIVO HD work well with Cox cable? If it turns out that I end up with all these problems with FIOS as so many other are, I will switch out FIOS TV before I go back to that horrible moto box.Yes, although I believe Cox in N. VA now now delivers some of their HD channels using SDV. The TivoHD cannot currently tune SDV channels, but the USB SDV adapter (coming later this year) should address that.

[NovaFIOS]

Ok, so I guess I am not immune. I finally discovered some weird happening on some HD channels last night. I was watching Terminator on FOX and while there was no "Pixellation" at least what I would think pixellation looks like (the screen was crystal clear, there was a weird lag when the camera panned and their was actio scenes. Close-ups seemed to be fine, there was no audio lag, just when there was panning of the camera around the room or following a character it was like almost slow-mo. It hurt my eyes to watch. Didn't happen on the SD versions of the channels, and didnt happen on all HDs. I restarted the box and then went to bed, this morning it seemed backed to normal. I did check the cable cards while it was happening, and it showed he signal strength jumping between 93 and 100. The Uncorrected whatever was 0 and the DB was around 36-37. I don't know what any of that means other than signal strenght but I guess I will see how it looks tonight. Anyone experience anything like this?

[richsadams]

Ok, so I guess I am not immune. I finally discovered some weird happening on some HD channels last night. I was watching Terminator on FOX and while there was no "Pixellation" at least what I would think pixellation looks like (the screen was crystal clear, there was a weird lag when the camera panned and their was actio scenes. Close-ups seemed to be fine, there was no audio lag, just when there was panning of the camera around the room or following a character it was like almost slow-mo. It hurt my eyes to watch. Didn't happen on the SD versions of the channels, and didnt happen on all HDs. I restarted the box and then went to bed, this morning it seemed backed to normal. I did check the cable cards while it was happening, and it showed he signal strength jumping between 93 and 100. The Uncorrected whatever was 0 and the DB was around 36-37. I don't know what any of that means other than signal strenght but I guess I will see how it looks tonight. Anyone experience anything like this?I've seen the same thing on HD channels now and again...and like you not on all channels, etc. If I rewind and play it again, it's still there. It's fairly rare though so I've attributed it to the broadcast itself. Our local NBC affiliate had all sorts of issues when they were converting everything over to HD. There were constant video and audio problems on their HD broadcast (but not on SD). I record the NBC Nightly News in HD and it was fairly painful to watch and listen to for a while. Now that they're done everything is just about perfect though.

I happened to be in Costco the other day and noticed that sort of behavior as well as sporadic pixelization on all of their display HD TV's. I asked one of the floor people about it and he said that he thought it was the a problem with the amp/distributor setup they had. I've seen the same thing in our local Circuit City now and then. HD PQ seems to be an issue no matter what kind of equipment is involved.

[joysbox]

I may be in the same boat. Never had any issues until two weeks ago. I was checking the threads and it seems like the signal was too hot, but I didn't think my tivo should be rebooting every ten minutes or so. The replacement tivo seems to be working fine - so wish us luck.

[richsadams]

I may be in the same boat. Never had any issues until two weeks ago. I was checking the threads and it seems like the signal was too hot, but I didn't think my tivo should be rebooting every ten minutes or so. The replacement tivo seems to be working fine - so wish us luck.Luck :up:

[brigont]

Rich,

How did you find this thing. You need to get out more :)

Brian

P.S. - A few weeks into fios with 22 pounds of attentuation on the tivo and all appears to be working well. Thanks again for all the help.


Sorry to hear that your signal and TiVo are giving you grief. By your description it's fairly obvious that your incoming Verizon signal strength has a wide disparity between various frequencies. It's apparent that their answer to most situations is to pump out the strongest signal possible. That seems to work for their box but for the moment TiVo and/or the cable cards they supply aren't able to handle it.

I think my first option would be to have Verizon come out and attempt to stabilize their signal across all frequencies as much as possible. I've no idea how or if they can do that, but if you're seeing that much difference it doesn't seem like that would be a normal situation.

Failing that the attenuator you've found may be the perfect answer. I had to do a little digging, but I'm assuming that it's this one (http://www.hometech.com/video/atten.html#PI-TSEQ2150)?

http://i32.tinypic.com/14mqvtd.jpg

Although it's designed for a satellite system I don't see any reason it wouldn't work with a regular cableco signal. The question is, which frequencies are you and/or others seeing problems on. Perhaps someone with some more in-depth experience will chime in?

But for about 10 bucks w/shipping, I think it would certainly be worth a try. If it works you may be in line for the Pioneer Club Founder's Medal of Honor and all of the associated privileges! ;)

[NovaFIOS]

Ok so its getting close to the point where I will be tied to TIVO as my 30 day moneyback guarantee is going to expire next week. Other than the 1 evening where there was a few HD channels that seemed to lag, I have had 0 problems and I love my TIVO so much I think you would have to pry it from my dead cold hands... :) I am hoping my experience sticks as I am going to hand back my Motorolla box that has been staring at me lifeless under the TIVO since I switched. I do not miss On Demand that much and have downloaded some UnBox videos which were cool, although allegedly On Demand will be pushing out HD content and UnBox does not. Does anyone know when UnBox will if ever have HD content? I did a trial on Rhapsody and it kicked A**, such great digital quality pumped through my sound system. Too bad I already have so much ITunes stuff, but I have also downlowed some stuff to enable me to play ITunes stuff through TIVO.. Very cool. Anyway, for anyone who is still on the fence, I love it....

[richsadams]

Rich,

How did you find this thing. You need to get out more :)

Brian

P.S. - A few weeks into fios with 22 pounds of attentuation on the tivo and all appears to be working well. Thanks again for all the help.Ha, can't blame me for that one. ;) That little device was found by another member (on this post (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6034295#post6034295)). I'm still waiting to hear if it worked or not. :confused:

[psuzebra]

Ha, can't blame me for that one. ;) That little device was found by another member (on this post (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6034295#post6034295)). I'm still waiting to hear if it worked or not. :confused:

I'm curious to hear if kmalone576 had any luck with that gadget too.

I've been having all sorts of trouble trying to find a good medium amount of attenuation so that I can get all of the HD channels w/o pixelation.

6db fixes pixelation on ESPN but still get pixelation on HDNet and DSCHD.
9db fixed pixelation on ESPN and DSCHD but still get pixelation on HDNet.
12db fixes pixelation on ESPN, DSCHD, and HDNet, but now the signal isn't strong enough on Food and HGTV and the TiVo can't tune them in.

Ugh.

[vinsuz]

First I want to say thanks to all of you who have taken the time to post your experiences and opinions. I had FiOS installed this past Monday; my first THD install went flawlessly, and although the second THD was a little more problematic (four Fiber Solutions CRSs and four CableCards over four hours), everything is working beautifully! I am still stunned at the difference in the picture quality compared to Comcast -- even my wife noticed it which is saying something!

Unfortunately, I sat down to watch a basketball game tonight on ESPN HD and experienced the dreaded macroblocking (or pixelization) on both THDs. I was able to convince the FiOS CSR to schedule a visit, and now that I came across this thread I feel that I'm better prepared for the service call.

I plan to print AbMagFab's and bkdtv's posts and give them to the tech so hopefully they'll be better prepared for the next TiVo install -- maybe that'll get me some good karma!!

I'll check back and post my experiences; hopefully it'll be good news!

[kmalone576]

So the "inline slope equalizer" thing didn't work - It seemed to have the same affect as attenuation (affected all channels equally)... but then when I took it off my cable cards ceased to work! I don't know if it is unlucky coincidence or somehow the device fried or reset my cable cards - they won't get any channels and say "not tuned, wrong card state" on the diagnostic screen. Whether it was related or not I don't know, but it seems awfully suspicious. So anyway bottom line is it didn't help with pixelation and may have crashed my cable cards. Sometimes I guess you have to take one for the team.... Verizon guy is on his way out today.

[richsadams]

So the "inline slope equalizer" thing didn't work - It seemed to have the same affect as attenuation (affected all channels equally)... but then when I took it off my cable cards ceased to work! I don't know if it is unlucky coincidence or somehow the device fried or reset my cable cards - they won't get any channels and say "not tuned, wrong card state" on the diagnostic screen. Whether it was related or not I don't know, but it seems awfully suspicious. So anyway bottom line is it didn't help with pixelation and may have crashed my cable cards. Sometimes I guess you have to take one for the team.... Verizon guy is on his way out today.Sorry to hear that, but thanks very much for the follow up. :up:

I'll add a note to my post to steer clear of them!

[sturdydog]

Ok, I may have had a revelation today! Could this problem be caused by RF noise? Let me explain and give some water holding ability to my theory. I have two TiVos, and HD and a Series 3. The Series 3 worked perfect until one day it didn’t. Had Verizon out checked everything and bla bla to no avail. I was able to get things working ok with some attenuation though. Well later I found it worked flawlessly again with NO attenuation. Couldn’t even begin to explain it but I thought what the hey I’ll take it. Well then I added an HD unit and had problems from the get go even though the Series 3 continued to work like a champ.

Well tonight I sat with a pile of attenuators futzing with the HD unit and a light bulb went off. What had changed with the Series 3 from when it worked to didn’t and did again? Well nothing except its location. Everything was in a temporary pile of equipment for many months and during that period was re-organized once or twice. Currently all my gear is housed in an equipment rack, where the Series 3 has always worked flawlessly, and when I added the TiVo HD I pulled out the Verizon DVR and stuck the HD in its place, where it never worked. Well when the bulb went off I pulled it out of the rack and positioned it as far away as I could with the cables that are in place and wallah (sp?) or at least almost. Now I have one tuner that works perfect with no attenuation and the other is better but still needs a little help.
So this begs the question, could this be entirely an issue of RF noise and attenuation is only helping to reduce the noise? Could the cover be pulled and some shielding added to the tuner to help the noise?

What are everybody’s thoughts?

[richsadams]

Ok, I may have had a revelation today! Could this problem be caused by RF noise? Let me explain and give some water holding ability to my theory. I have two TiVos, and HD and a Series 3. The Series 3 worked perfect until one day it didn’t. Had Verizon out checked everything and bla bla to no avail. I was able to get things working ok with some attenuation though. Well later I found it worked flawlessly again with NO attenuation. Couldn’t even begin to explain it but I thought what the hey I’ll take it. Well then I added an HD unit and had problems from the get go even though the Series 3 continued to work like a champ.

Well tonight I sat with a pile of attenuators futzing with the HD unit and a light bulb went off. What had changed with the Series 3 from when it worked to didn’t and did again? Well nothing except its location. Everything was in a temporary pile of equipment for many months and during that period was re-organized once or twice. Currently all my gear is housed in an equipment rack, where the Series 3 has always worked flawlessly, and when I added the TiVo HD I pulled out the Verizon DVR and stuck the HD in its place, where it never worked. Well when the bulb went off I pulled it out of the rack and positioned it as far away as I could with the cables that are in place and wallah (sp?) or at least almost. Now I have one tuner that works perfect with no attenuation and the other is better but still needs a little help.
So this begs the question, could this be entirely an issue of RF noise and attenuation is only helping to reduce the noise? Could the cover be pulled and some shielding added to the tuner to help the noise?

What are everybody’s thoughts?Interesting theory. I'm not sure about RF noise, but an EMF and EMI has been known to cause problems for a number of folks with TiVo eSATA expansion drives when they place them too closely to a high power source such as a receiver or UPS or near a strong magnetic field such as a sub woofer. Running coax in line with power cables can cause PQ issues as well. (Power cables should never be bundled with any other cables and if they have to cross it should be at 90 degree angles.)

It would be interesting to find out if placing a TiVo that's experiencing trouble in another location, preferably as far away from where it's currently located, makes any difference.

[Marc]

I just recently fixed up my pixelation problem by adding 11 dB of attenuation to my TiVo HD. I had started noticing the pixelation showing up, but only on my local SD channels. Other channels were just fine.

What's kind of strange is that it had been working great for three months; the pixelation only started a couple of weeks ago. I don't know what changed during that time, but I finally got too annoyed with the pixelation and broke out the stash of attenuators that the FiOS installer had left me. I was surprised that I needed to go up to double-digit attenuation to bring the level down.

I got the feeling that the SNR value on the TiVo HD CableCARD diagnostic screen maxes out around 36 dB because the first 8 dB that I put on didn't even change that number. It wasn't until I got the attenuation up to 11 dB that the SNR number dropped down to 34 dB.

[rifleman69]

I just recently fixed up my pixelation problem by adding 11 dB of attenuation to my TiVo HD. I had started noticing the pixelation showing up, but only on my local SD channels. Other channels were just fine.

What's kind of strange is that it had been working great for three months; the pixelation only started a couple of weeks ago. I don't know what changed during that time, but I finally got too annoyed with the pixelation and broke out the stash of attenuators that the FiOS installer had left me. I was surprised that I needed to go up to double-digit attenuation to bring the level down.

I got the feeling that the SNR value on the TiVo HD CableCARD diagnostic screen maxes out around 36 dB because the first 8 dB that I put on didn't even change that number. It wasn't until I got the attenuation up to 11 dB that the SNR number dropped down to 34 dB.


Nope, I've had the SNR # at 37 or 38 originally.

[mona6356]

I now have Directv with TIVO and am thinking of consolidating with Verizon Fios for TV, Internet and Home phone.The price would be about the same as with the individual services but internet will be much faster (vs DSL), and unlimited LD with phone. My question though, is Fios Tivo as good as, better than, or worse than Directv Tivo. I'm concerned with moving around the screens, setting up recordings, Season Passes, and obviously, the quality and reliability of the picture. Should I switch to Fios and why? Or should I stay?

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

[TheBar1]

I now have Directv with TIVO and am thinking of consolidating with Verizon Fios for TV, Internet and Home phone.The price would be about the same as with the individual services but internet will be much faster (vs DSL), and unlimited LD with phone. My question though, is Fios Tivo as good as, better than, or worse than Directv Tivo. I'm concerned with moving around the screens, setting up recordings, Season Passes, and obviously, the quality and reliability of the picture. Should I switch to Fios and why? Or should I stay?

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

I made the switch from DirecTV to FiOS in August. The SD picture quality on Fios is definitely better (much less compression on the signal, I suspect). I originally had Verizon's DVR (not TiVo) when I switched, but I finally convinced the wife to go back to TiVo in February. We now have a TiVo HD, and I am really happy to be back :-) When I was with DirecTV, I had both S1 and S2 TiVos for about 6 years.

[threshar]

for the record, I had verizon out here a while ago (oh, probably a month or two at this point!) and they tried to diagnose the problem - they then added some attenuation lovin before the tivo and things have been rock solid since. I'm unsure how much because I wasn't here when they were and I never think to check.

so it does seem the signal strength screws with mr. tivo.

[kmalone576]

So the last verizon tech I spoke with over the weekend confirmed what I have wondered about for a while. Verizon has been changing their signal strength on occasion which would explain why you can have a perfectly working set up all of the sudden become problematic. He said their signal had gotten hotter in my area (MD) in late 2007 which was causing a lot of problems for people near the home office. This was about the time I had started having pixelation problems. At that time the tech came out, measured my signal (<+20) and attenuated it fixing (mostly) my picture. That particular tech had no knowledge of any change in signal. The tech who came out over the weekend measured my same signal and found it to be -8db (before attenuation) and thought it was too low (at least for their box) and removed some attenuation that was on the line close to the ONT. He said that because they were getting so many calls about errors from a too strong signal and having to put so much attenuation on most set ups that Verizon had recently bumped their signal down by a few decibels. So now I had to remove some of my attenuators on the Tivo. I currently only have a 6db attenuator on my box with an SNR around 35 on most channels with great picture, no RS errors (corrected or uncorrected). So although the Fios/S3 combo is not without issue, I'm glad to finally have a reason why I can have no problems for so long and then all of the sudden have pixelation without changing my set up. I know some have said that the signal strength is determined by the ONT, but there most be some influence that the fiber signal coming in plays in determining how strong the signal ends up at your STB.

[bigguy126]

Just had FIOS installed yesterday. Got same story as kmalone576. Tech told me that Fios was too hot and they have lowered it in my area (Pittsburgh) to be +12 db. My installation has 2 splitters before Tivo. Tech did a line test and found it perfect at the tivo (+4??). Have not noticed any pixellation yet.:)

Picture quality MUCH better than comcast. Esp on analog chanells.

[ciucca]

So the last verizon tech I spoke with over the weekend confirmed what I have wondered about for a while. Verizon has been changing their signal strength on occasion which would explain why you can have a perfectly working set up all of the sudden become problematic. He said their signal had gotten hotter in my area (MD) in late 2007 which was causing a lot of problems for people near the home office. This was about the time I had started having pixelation problems. At that time the tech came out, measured my signal (<+20) and attenuated it fixing (mostly) my picture. That particular tech had no knowledge of any change in signal. The tech who came out over the weekend measured my same signal and found it to be -8db (before attenuation) and thought it was too low (at least for their box) and removed some attenuation that was on the line close to the ONT. He said that because they were getting so many calls about errors from a too strong signal and having to put so much attenuation on most set ups that Verizon had recently bumped their signal down by a few decibels. So now I had to remove some of my attenuators on the Tivo. I currently only have a 6db attenuator on my box with an SNR around 35 on most channels with great picture, no RS errors (corrected or uncorrected). So although the Fios/S3 combo is not without issue, I'm glad to finally have a reason why I can have no problems for so long and then all of the sudden have pixelation without changing my set up. I know some have said that the signal strength is determined by the ONT, but there most be some influence that the fiber signal coming in plays in determining how strong the signal ends up at your STB.

I work for Verizon and this is Bull Crap. We do not change our signal. The only thing left to blame is the Tivo box. I do own a TIVOHD :eek: even though I work for Verizon.:

[rifleman69]

I work for Verizon and this is Bull Crap. We do not change our signal. The only thing left to blame is the Tivo box. I do own a TIVOHD :eek: even though I work for Verizon.:


Wanna bet?

[kmalone576]

I work for Verizon and this is Bull Crap. We do not change our signal. The only thing left to blame is the Tivo box. I do own a TIVOHD :eek: even though I work for Verizon.:

Well it seemed like a good explanation to me. So you're telling me that my Tivo has twice suddenly become unable to tune Verizon's never changing signal requiring me to change the level of attenuation to it all other things being equal? I'm not defending the S3 - it definitely has issues, but a signal change makes a lot of sense in what I and others have experienced. And in dealing with multiple different verizon CSR's and techs there is a wide variety of knowledge and understanding of the product, so I'm not surprised some Verizon employees have different information than others.

[richsadams]

I can't say one way or another about Verizon changing or not changing their signal strength, but cableco's have been altering their signal strength for years depending on the localized requirements. I don't know why Verizon would handle things any differently.

I agree with kmalone576 that the Verizon tech's explanation makes sense based not only on his but many other's experiences here. However again, can't argue the issue with regard to what Verizon may or may not do either way. :confused:

[kas25]

I just got a package of different stregth attenuators and have started experimenting with different ones. Is it recommended to start with the larger or smaller numbers? Will I lose any quality? If so, more or less with larger or smaller numbers? Thanks.

[hmm52]

I've had 3 Sony cablecard devices for 29 months, 1 Tv & 2 DVRs; and a c.c Toshiba Tv for 16 months. The last 15 months with FiOS. First 8 of those months were completely free of tiling/macroblocking/pixelation. Tiling first seen on Toshiba in August - local HDs. Worst stretch was in November - Toshiba pixelated horrifically on over 50% of all SDs & HDs; small macroblocks also appeared through 3 Sony tuners every 30 - 60 seconds on a few channels. After ripping apart house & swapping out much equipment to no avail, Verizon "Big Boss" passed matter on to next level. Tiling became a non-issue in next 24 hours. He called to say that problem had been fixed in nearby central office. Since then Toshiba has tiled occasionally on local HDs. By design, the Sonys will shut off feed if signal is too hot. I've yet to see that happen with either FiOS or Comcast. No macroblocks observed through them since 11/07 (1 very brief exception).

I've had an S3 for 7 weeks. First 2 weeks - it tiled on local HDs (507-525MHz) & 5 others on 2 frequencies; Toshiba tiled on locals to lesser extent. Attenuation beyond that of VZ 5way splitter is not an option currently. While it can clear the locals, quite a few SDs & HDs are knocked out or pixelated with just an 8db attenuator added. Antenna channel chosen when tiling appears in locals. Fine for that. With addition of 2nd cablecard after 1st 2 weeks, I've seen significantly worse performance on tuner 0. It has no tune or heavy pixelation on all channels 711-777MHz, inconsistent tuning 639-645MHz, & the same occasional difficulties as tuner 1 on locals. No problems with either tuner below 507 or above 777MHz. Pixelation on Toshiba & tuner 1 has been much less in last 5 weeks. Tuner 1 usually shows 0&0 for errors on channels that tuner 0 has off the chart errors - upper frequencies.

Exchange S3 was requested last week. If it also has problems, especially beyond the locals, I'll see what remedy Verizon can provide; and continue to remind TiVo Inc. of its product's weaknesses. I wrote Toshiba off long ago.


Rich --- Did you hear about that unfortunate woman's run in with a sting ray in the Keys? How long are the odds against that ever happening? I doubt I'll ever be able to get my wife out for a boat dive again. (It was never easy.)

[richsadams]

I just got a package of different stregth attenuators and have started experimenting with different ones. Is it recommended to start with the larger or smaller numbers? Will I lose any quality? If so, more or less with larger or smaller numbers? Thanks.Start small and work your way up. Each attenuation will reduce signal strength. Eventually you'll reduce the signal to the point that it will be lost on some or all channels. Hopefully you'll find a "sweet spot" before that.

[richsadams]

Rich --- Did you hear about that unfortunate woman's run in with a sting ray in the Keys? How long are the odds against that ever happening? I doubt I'll ever be able to get my wife out for a boat dive again. (It was never easy.)I saw that news story (http://video.nbc6.net/player/?id=231235)...beautiful spotted eagle ray jumped out of the water and into the boat, knocking her over along the way; banged her head on the deck and died. :eek: (Sad that they let the ray die.) I've read other stories about rays clearing the water like dolphins...weird. The odds of that happening to anyone are probably much smaller than being hit by lightning...much smaller I would think. Freak of nature I suppose.

We had the opportunity to swim w/mantas in Hawaii a while back...awesome experience! :up: Here are a couple of pics of the wife and I with a few of the friendly little guys...

http://i31.tinypic.com/2cf3yvp.jpg
http://i30.tinypic.com/10hvh1i.jpg

Okay...back OT. ;)

[hmm52]

Much, much, much smaller chance than being hit by lightening. Sometimes people aren't open to the laws of probability. It's just the deep, dark, mysterious ocean - not their element. You either have the mentality of a diver or you don't; though my wife and I witnessed large school of graceful eagle rays gliding just overhead while hunkering down behind reef to stay out of strong current. - Windward side of Grand Cayman in very rough conditions. Except for us, everyone had gone with the current. You can imagine the disaster scene at surface 45 minutes later. What a contrast of images in one dive!

Off the old airport, Big Island, right? I took my ex-girlfriend's son there to get certified. That night dive was his first after certification. 3 boat loads of Cousteau people also came to see the mantas. They acted like they were schoolchildren seeing the circus for the first time. Mantas enthusiastic also. Good memories..........


Gotta go


,

[richsadams]

Off the old airport, Big Island, right? That's the place. The best used to be off shore at the old Kona Surf Hotel, but since their lights no longer shine in the water, the mantas have moved on. Still a great experience! :up:

Travel safe.

[webin]

I'm going to post a more in-depth report in the FioS thread, but I thought I'd briefly mention my experience with macroblocking on the CC install I had this afternoon.

After getting the CC's functional, my installer flipped through various channels to make sure it was all working. We found macroblocking, but ONLY on channel 803, which is CW. It could have been on more, but none we saw. I mentioned the signal could be "too hot" as I've seen around the forums, and he pulled an attenuator from his pocket (not sure what size) and tried it, but didn't make a difference. Eventually, he decided to swap out my OTN box, upgrading me from "806 to 812". Essentially, my Internet is now MoCa instead of Ethernet. It fixed the macroblocking on that channel, and I haven't seen any picture quality issues on any channel in the 2 hours I've been playing with it. I also notice that my SNR is 37 or 38 on many channels. For the time being, it seems to be working nicely, so let's hope it stays that way.

Edit: Also, I'm getting +3dB signal strength from the wall, and the installer told me they are putting out +11dB at the central office (where ever that is), and hope to bump it up to +18dB (for reasons I can't remember).

[richsadams]

I'm going to post a more in-depth report in the FioS thread, but I thought I'd briefly mention my experience with macroblocking on the CC install I had this afternoon.

After getting the CC's functional, my installer flipped through various channels to make sure it was all working. We found macroblocking, but ONLY on channel 803, which is CW. It could have been on more, but none we saw. I mentioned the signal could be "too hot" as I've seen around the forums, and he pulled an attenuator from his pocket (not sure what size) and tried it, but didn't make a difference. Eventually, he decided to swap out my OTN box, upgrading me from "806 to 812". Essentially, my Internet is now MoCa instead of Ethernet. It fixed the macroblocking on that channel, and I haven't seen any picture quality issues on any channel in the 2 hours I've been playing with it. I also notice that my SNR is 37 or 38 on many channels. For the time being, it seems to be working nicely, so let's hope it stays that way.

Edit: Also, I'm getting +3dB signal strength from the wall, and the installer told me they are putting out +11dB at the central office (where ever that is), and hope to bump it up to +18dB (for reasons I can't remember).Good info. Thanks for posting. :up:

[hmm52]

I'm going to post a more in-depth report in the FioS thread, but I thought I'd briefly mention my experience with macroblocking on the CC install I had this afternoon.

After getting the CC's functional, my installer flipped through various channels to make sure it was all working. We found macroblocking, but ONLY on channel 803, which is CW. It could have been on more, but none we saw. I mentioned the signal could be "too hot" as I've seen around the forums, and he pulled an attenuator from his pocket (not sure what size) and tried it, but didn't make a difference. Eventually, he decided to swap out my OTN box, upgrading me from "806 to 812".

Perhaps you could verify with installer that it's a Motorola ONT. They usually call back or leave a card. A number of techs have bemoaned the fact that they couldn't upgrade my ONT further - & from Tel Labs to Motorola. Incompatilbility with old equipment at my central office. Motorolas are supposedly better at dealing with line errors. My ONT is a 612 as I recall.

[vinsuz]

I had the Verizon tech out to look at my HD boxes. His meter showed a "perfect signal" (according to him); 0db and full signal strength. We tried several combinations of attenuators to no avail -- they didn't seem to improve the affected channels and made unaffected channels worse.

Interestingly, before the tech arrived, some of the channels experiencing problems cleared up on their own, but the problem returned on those same channels after the tech disconnected and reconnected the coax. And after a couple of days the channels cleared up again. As it stands now, it seems the affected channels have moved and reduced in number (as far as I can tell as it's hard to keep up with 300+ channels).

None of my HD channels seem affected anymore (at least for now), so I'm just going to live with the situation. I did call Verizon's cancellation department even though I really didn't want to cancel the service, and asked for a "free" HD set-top box so that when I encounter an affected channel I can switch TV inputs to watch the set-top box. Not only did they agree, they also gave me the movie package for free for the rest of the year AND $100 off my first bill!

I really don't know what to think, but my feeling is that the problem has less to do with the actual signal and is an issue with the CableCards and/or the TiVo tuners. But that's just my gut talking.

[holee]

As a soon to be HD TiVo user with Verizon FiOS, you guys are doing an amazing job of making me panick. Potentially annoying to unusable service. Not having happy thoughts. :(

[webin]

Keep in mind we aren't posting about all the beautiful channels we are seeing (well, some of us are). The pixelation stuff is only on a few channels, and most people aren't seeing it. I wouldn't recommend worrying until (if) you actually see if on your setup.

Be sure to let us know how your install goes tomorrow (or whenever it comes).

[richsadams]

As a soon to be HD TiVo user with Verizon FiOS, you guys are doing an amazing job of making me panick. Potentially annoying to unusable service. Not having happy thoughts. :(I have to admit that I'm a little concerned as well. We currently have Comcast, but Verizon is spray painting various colored stripes all over our streets and driveways in preparation for FIOS in our neighborhood. I was initially jumping for joy, but I'm a little worried now.

Currently everything we have is almost perfect, but I understand that Comcast is beginning to compress their HD even more now (to be able to brag about having more HD channels at the cost of PQ) and I'd really love to have the huge "pipe" that FIOS offers for broadband. But all of the attenuation and macroblocking talk is putty a big wet blanket on things.

Webin, you say you're "near Portland". Where exactly and how would you rate your overall experience w/Verizon and FIOS? TIA!

[gamo62]

I had the Verizon tech out to look at my HD boxes. His meter showed a "perfect signal" (according to him); 0db and full signal strength. We tried several combinations of attenuators to no avail -- they didn't seem to improve the affected channels and made unaffected channels worse.

Interestingly, before the tech arrived, some of the channels experiencing problems cleared up on their own, but the problem returned on those same channels after the tech disconnected and reconnected the coax. And after a couple of days the channels cleared up again. As it stands now, it seems the affected channels have moved and reduced in number (as far as I can tell as it's hard to keep up with 300+ channels).

None of my HD channels seem affected anymore (at least for now), so I'm just going to live with the situation. I did call Verizon's cancellation department even though I really didn't want to cancel the service, and asked for a "free" HD set-top box so that when I encounter an affected channel I can switch TV inputs to watch the set-top box. Not only did they agree, they also gave me the movie package for free for the rest of the year AND $100 off my first bill!

I really don't know what to think, but my feeling is that the problem has less to do with the actual signal and is an issue with the CableCards and/or the TiVo tuners. But that's just my gut talking.

$100 off your first bill! How much IS your bill?

[rifleman69]

I have to admit that I'm a little concerned as well. We currently have Comcast, but Verizon is spray painting various colored stripes all over our streets and driveways in preparation for FIOS in our neighborhood. I was initially jumping for joy, but I'm a little worried now.

Currently everything we have is almost perfect, but I understand that Comcast is beginning to compress their HD even more now (to be able to brag about having more HD channels at the cost of PQ) and I'd really love to have the huge "pipe" that FIOS offers for broadband. But all of the attenuation and macroblocking talk is putty a big wet blanket on things.

Webin, you say you're "near Portland". Where exactly and how would you rate your overall experience w/Verizon and FIOS? TIA!



FiOS is head and shoulders above Comcast and DirecTV (IMO) that it's not even funny. You will notice the picture quality difference in both HD and SD broadcasts. Didn't know that L.O. was finally getting FiOS, that's great news!

[richsadams]

FiOS is head and shoulders above Comcast and DirecTV (IMO) that it's not even funny. You will notice the picture quality difference in both HD and SD broadcasts. Didn't know that L.O. was finally getting FiOS, that's great news!Good to hear and I think we'll take the leap when it's available. I know most of the people that find their way here have a problem and only account for a very small percentage of the TiVo/FIOS population...but some of the stories are real nightmares and I can sympathize with their frustration. People that are happy with everything rarely end up posting on forums like this.

Not sure when it'll be ready at our house, but our streets sure look like a graffiti artist has been busy!

[webin]

Webin, you say you're "near Portland". Where exactly and how would you rate your overall experience w/Verizon and FIOS? TIA!

I wrote much more than I expected, and it'd be better in the Verizon thread, so I'll answer there.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6134538#post6134538

[richsadams]

I wrote much more than I expected, and it'd be better in the Verizon thread, so I'll answer there.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6134538#post6134538Excellent! Thanks very much! :up:

[sweh]

Colour (I'm English) me confused.

I thought the ONT converted from incoming optic to coax. So how can the strength of the signal change? I'm really confused.

Anyway, to my real problem.

At this moment I have tuner 0 tuned to 170 (429Mhz; Comedy central) and the signal strength is changing from 100 to 93 to 87 to 61 to 43 (eep; just hit zero) and back to 100. SNR is bouncing from 37db down to 33db and back. It has 28,000 RS uncorrected (increasing by 100 or so every second) and 620,000 RS corrected (increasing by 1000 every second).

But at the same time tuner 1 is tuned to 825 (717Mhz; TNT HD) and is a rock solid signal strength 100 and with SNR bouncing between 36 and 37dB with an (unchanging) 255 uncorrected errors over the course of 1.2 hours.

Now for an experiment, I just changed tuner 0 to 169 (627Mhz; BBC America) and am now also getting solid 100 with SNR 36/37. So I don't _think_ it's a cable card issue.

Could this be Verizon being bad on Comedy Central? Or could it be the signal is "too hot" and needs attenuating? Some of my symptoms appear to match the too hot side (high SNR, RS uncorrected increasing) but why does this only impact some channels, and why does the signal strength keep changing?

[Marc]

At this moment I have tuner 0 tuned to 170 (429Mhz; Comedy central) and the signal strength is changing from 100 to 93 to 87 to 61 to 43 (eep; just hit zero) and back to 100. SNR is bouncing from 37db down to 33db and back. It has 28,000 RS uncorrected (increasing by 100 or so every second) and 620,000 RS corrected (increasing by 1000 every second).
This is exactly the symptom of a "too hot" signal coming in to the TiVo.

I had the same problem. I think that the displayed SNR value caps out at a maximum value, and the actual value is higher.

I ended up adding 11 dB of attenuation before my SNR finally showed a drop, but even then it was just 2 or 3 dB on the screen. At that point, my error rate finally stopped increasing and stabilized.

I think that the signal strength affects certain frequency rather than others, so you'd see the problem on some channels but not others.

[webin]

Update on my setup: I initially reported that I was experiencing macroblocking on CW (in HD), but that swapping the ONT fixed it. As time has gone on, I've encountered macroblocking on several channels, as least CW and Fox (both HD). I haven't really had time to diagnose the problem and figure out the full range of channels I'm getting it on, but I'm sure it's the same hot signal problem. When I finally get some time off (dern deadlines), I'm going to get some attenuators and knock the signal down.

[sweh]

This is exactly the symptom of a "too hot" signal coming in to the TiVo.

Ok, thanks. I've ordered a set of attenuators and will play with them when they arrive. 10:30pm on Wednesday on Comedy Central seems a good time for problems.

[rcr2]

I just got FiOS and (knock on wood) have had no problems. Installer said the signal was coming in very hot, too, so I was worried, but everything seems to be running a-ok.

[rashid11]

I had to add 8 + 8 + 3 + 3 = 22 Db of attenuation to drop the SNR to 33 Db !!!
These 4 attenuators was what FIOS guy gave me when he did the install. I guess
I have to spring for an extra one or see if local RatShack has the variable attenuator.

The fact my Tivo HD was showing 38 Db originally prolly means that it is the max
value it will display (some folx reported seeing 39 Db).

About attenuators reducing the noise along with the signal - they do reduce incoming noise, but the "native" thermal noise of Tivo's own RF stages is not affected and stays constant (within reasonable temp range).

About macroblocking - even with my extremely hot signal, most channels seemed to be OK. But, I _did_ see totally random pixelization/macroblocking on different channels. Hopefully it is gone now ... I'd still like to get down to the "golden" 31 Db SNR number

[sweh]

Stage 1 test; 1 put in a 20db attenuator and the system wouldn't tune into anything at all. It could be a bad attenuator, or it could just have degraded the signal too much.

So I put a 10db in. Now on Comedy Central the signal strength bounces between 68 and 75, and the SNR bounces between 32 and 33dB. A little high compared to what others have written, but in the past 12 hours there have been zero Uncorrected errors on that channel. RS Corrected goes up occaisionally (4180 in 12 hours).

(Annoying design; the cable input is very close to the eSATA connector, and wobbling that cable caused the box to reboot; the TiVo eSATA port is a little too loose).

Hopefully this has solved my problems and I won't need to add in a second attenuator.

[richsadams]

(Annoying design; the cable input is very close to the eSATA connector, and wobbling that cable caused the box to reboot; the TiVo eSATA port is a little too loose). It's more likely that the cable's connector is the culprit. You might want to replace it with the recommended SIIG Serial ATA external cable (http://www.provantage.com/siig-cb-sa0111-s1~7SISE00F.htm)...less than $10. Other cable recommendations (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160) (Section III, #26)

[shaggy2002]

Last night I noticed that one of my cable cards was no longer working in FIOS. I attemted to run Diags and it stayed at please wait forever. I had to hard boot the tivo and when it came back both cards were working again and I thought everything was good until I started flipping between Showtime, Starz and they all were pixalating every 10-15 seconds. ON local channels HD and SD I experience no pixelation. I never had a problem before with my SNR prior to the card quit working. It is doing this on both cards as well. Is there anything I can check to determine what my problem may be? or do I need to call FIOS?

[rudolpht]

Thanks for the update and welcome to the forum. :up:

I don't have any real macroblocking problems, but I have one of these and wondered if it is the same thing you're using JIC.

http://i6.tinypic.com/4y5h01y.jpg

We'll I have one of these (at about 60% between min & max) plus a 6 DB pad.

I am truthfully amazed at the change (HBO HD, BBCA, 5starmax were my bad channels). I actually just bought an HD Tivo to replace a S3 because my other TivoHD was showing stability until a few recent recordings. I need to get more Pads in and then I should be set (fixing the S3 and my other existing TivoHD) and the new replacement HD Tivo gets returned unopened. I'm getting signal that bounces between 68 and 72 but steady at 31 SNR. I'll fix up the existing HD Tivo also (unless you thin it's OK to attenuate before the splitter) (2 Tivos (HD & S3) , data, and 1 Fios HD DVR box)

Side item: I was having lots of issues with 8.3 and I'm wondering now (after I replaced the HD) if I shouldn't go back to my old one that had the nightly reboots (or toss it into an enclosure and try to make it a second drive married to my already larger drive in the S3).

THANKS!!!!

[webin]

I have been using a 10db attenuator to help with my pixelation. I still get minor pixelation on some channels... notably FoxHD, and will also get signal drop out from time to time, where sound and video cut out for a few seconds (on any channel, even FoxHD). I chalk it up to bouncy signal strength, and was planning to try 8db at some point.

Anyways, onto my question. I woke up this morning and was getting the grey screen with a "can't find signal" message. My cable cards were showing signal strengths of 45 and "-". I took the 10db attenuator out of the line, and the video signal returned (though I didn't check strength).

The question: Have cable attenuators been known to go bad? It seems like a fairly simple piece of hardware, so I wouldn't expect much failure, especially after months of use. I think it could also be a suddenly weaker signal from Verizon, but haven't had time yet to look into the issue.

[Thos19]

I've had FiosTV since March and experienced pixelation for the first time last night. Thanks to this thread, I was prepared with attenuators, and fixed the problem...for now.

What is bugging me is this: Why did I not have a problem for the first few months? It seems like it should be either my signal is either too hot, or not. It shouldn't suddenly manifest itself out of the blue. I doubt that Fios suddently decided to boost my signal yesterday and cause the problem. If it is the tuner section in my Series 3 being inadequate to the task, is it a function or the circuitry "wearing out" over time from receiving a hot signal, and the eventual solution will have to be a new tuner board? Or perhaps the next generation of Tivo will be the solution as it may or may not have a better built tuner section?

Very strange...

Thos.

[richsadams]

When everything has been fine for a time and then things go south my guess is that the FIOS signal is being adjusted by Verizon and has nothing to do with the end-user's setup. IIRC other posts (on this thread, or maybe another) mentioned that Verizon was becoming more aware of the "hot" signal strength issues and were making some changes. Even the normal cableco's do that on a neighborhood basis on occasion, although theirs is usually in response to a weak signal.

[robostock]

[QUOTE=Thos19;6325275]I've had FiosTV since March and experienced pixelation for the first time last night. QUOTE]

I also live in MA and experiencing pixelation with my FIOS. I don't have any attenuators so a service call may be in order.

OBTW: The channels were UHD and Discovery HD. Coincidently I think it started happening with the removal of the analog channels.

My question is:
Would the removal of the analog affect the signal strength or quality in anyway? :confused:

[hmm52]

I've had FiosTV since March and experienced pixelation for the first time last night. Thanks to this thread, I was prepared with attenuators, and fixed the problem...for now.

What is bugging me is this: Why did I not have a problem for the first few months? It seems like it should be either my signal is either too hot, or not. It shouldn't suddenly manifest itself out of the blue. I doubt that Fios suddently decided to boost my signal yesterday and cause the problem. If it is the tuner section in my Series 3 being inadequate to the task, is it a function or the circuitry "wearing out" over time from receiving a hot signal, and the eventual solution will have to be a new tuner board? Or perhaps the next generation of Tivo will be the solution as it may or may not have a better built tuner section?Thos.

I concur with Rich. Since signing up with FiOS 11/06, the signal from my central office has varied quite a bit. First 8 months were perfect. Rough patch of tiling/pixelation July/August last year. Catastrophic in November. Mild episodes after that. Pretty good for last 2.5-3 months. TiVos, HD & S3, are very sensitive to signal level. The task is easier if you've only got high level signals, not combined with ones too low.

I do have an S3 with one bad tuner. It's weaknesses haven't changed since being put into service the beginning of February. Tiling or no tune on the same channels as always.

[Phantom Gremlin]

When everything has been fine for a time and then things go south my guess is that the FIOS signal is being adjusted by Verizon and has nothing to do with the end-user's setup.
Your speculation makes sense, but is still confusing to me. Maybe someone with more detailed FiOS knowledge can jump in.

My basic understanding is that FiOS TV is delivered to the ONT on the side of your house over fiber. Then the TV channels are converted into RF and sent over your coax cable to your TVs.

So does the FiOS system have the capability of remotely adjusting the RF signal strength in your ONT? Or is something else going on?

[richsadams]

So does the FiOS system have the capability of remotely adjusting the RF signal strength in your ONT? Or is something else going on?No idea, just a theory. But if attenuation can address the issues at one point and then things get bad and removing the attenuation makes things right again...my WAG is that the signal has changed.

They just laid FIOS in our neighborhood and I'm itching to jump on board, both for the (mostly) unadulterated TV signal as well as the big broadband "pipe". All this chatter still makes me think they haven't ironed out the fine points yet, so I'm a bit nervous.

[webin]

All this chatter still makes me think they haven't ironed out the fine points yet, so I'm a bit nervous.

Even on their worst day, I'd take Verizon over Comcast.

[richsadams]

Even on their worst day, I'd take Verizon over Comcast.Good point! :)

[Thos19]

Well, I'm still having problems with pixelation even after the attenuation. Looking at the Hi-Def channel tier (which is all I really watch), it only happens on the local channels. Once I get to channel 825 and highter (TNT, HDNet, HBO) the reception is flawless with zero uncorrected and corrected errors. As a couple others on this thread have noted, it happens on one card in my Series 3, but not the other. I guess that is better than nothing.

I have a call into Fios to try to get someone out to my house and maybe dial down the signal strength. Then I guess I'll try the attenuation route again.

At least the pixelation didn't start until after I had watched season finale of LOST. :)

Thos.

[mazurkr]

off topic somewhat...

but this thread came up in a google search for "fios lake oswego"

for those portland-area members, can you answer a coupla questions for me?

1 - i see fios is coming to lake oswego. is it also coming to west linn? if not, why not, as all the surrounding communities seem to be in the pipeline.

2 - for fios vs directv, will i be able to have access to midwest (specifically michigan) sports on any of the hd channels with fios, as i could get with the nfl and nba packages on directv?

thanks in advance!

[Phantom Gremlin]

this thread came up in a google search for "fios lake oswego"

You may (or may not!) get better answers in this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=803031) thread on avsforum.

[richsadams]

off topic somewhat...

but this thread came up in a google search for "fios lake oswego"

for those portland-area members, can you answer a coupla questions for me?

1 - i see fios is coming to lake oswego. is it also coming to west linn? if not, why not, as all the surrounding communities seem to be in the pipeline.

2 - for fios vs directv, will i be able to have access to midwest (specifically michigan) sports on any of the hd channels with fios, as i could get with the nfl and nba packages on directv?

thanks in advance!Welcome to the forum!

They've been busy installing FIOS in our part of LO for a couple of months now but haven't made it available yet. My brother-in-law lives in Wilsonville and had FIOS installed in his neighborhood about a year ago. Seems there's no rhyme or reason to the roll-outs except possibly permitting, available funding, etc. I'm sure West Linn is on the list, but who knows when it will appear.

No idea about the specific sports programs, but I'm looking at a Verizon brochure I picked up at one of their stores and it lists an add on premium offering called "Sports Package" for $7.99/mo. which offers 13 channels: Fox College, Sports (Atlantic, Central and Pacific), Outdoor, Sportsman and more. A Verizon CSR may or may not be able to answer your specific question and as Phantom says, the AVS Forum might get you some more info.

This Verizon link (http://www22.verizon.com/content/fiostv/channel+lineup/channel+lineup.htm) has a listing of HD and SD channels as well.

[hmm52]

You think Verizon may be withholding an offer because they know you'll be a demanding customer?

I wouldn't put too much stock in Fox Sports Net programming. ESPN passed on some tennis tournaments earlier this year that they traditionally carried. FSN picked them up. What a disaster. Their scheduling (and sticking to it) and coverage was abysmal in every respect. The local high school geeks could have done better. At the time I signed up, Verizon offered a significant discount if you signed up for both the movie & sports packages. I think FSN is done on an arcane regional basis. In Philly the association is with Comcast Sports Net - one of the channels that commonly pixelated with Phila. VHO. Each cable area's coverage is different; unlikely to be as broad as with satellite.

[richsadams]

You think Verizon may be withholding an offer because they know you'll be a demanding customer?What makes you think that? :confused: ;)

A Verizon FIOS installer of some nature was actually working on something in the little box/hole in the ground in front of our house when I went outside to get the mail. I asked her when she thought things would be up and running and she said everything will be active by the end of this month (June); then they have to run tests and such. She also said that she had heard about me and was disconnecting our house permanently. :eek: Kidding. She said that we would be able to get FIOS access about mid July or so. Sigh. Can't wait!

[hmm52]

Your house will be disconnected permanently - from copper cables. Several summers ago, we had a nasty storm which felled many trees and utility wires. The power outage was expected to last 6 days, but ended at 4. The ONT UPS gave out at 8 hours or so. Only phone and Internet back then. T-Mobile service quit immediately; I guess the hamsters running the cell tower's generator took off with the wind. Dry ice and lanterns. Camping out for adults in home.

You should stay committed to griping at least a little. Verizon seems pretty pleased with themselves over FiOS TV. Apparently they've dropped their request_and_send IPTV deployment as if the plan never existed. Has to be good news for cablecard users. They don't see a "business case" for changing much. I haven't heard of any plans to increase QAMs at VHOs and COs so a significantly expanded lineup may not be a priority as well.

I saw some pixelation on an ESPN2HD recording for only the second time through the S3, yesterday. Since it was very occasional and limited, I wrote it off as source related. We'll see. I haven't heard back from exec's office about new replacement. Probably busy with the THD video freeze challenge.

[wmcbrine]

I haven't heard of any plans to increase QAMs at VHOs and COsEh? They're doing that right now, in conjunction with the analog shutdown.

[Deanq4]

richadams:

I am in Forest Grove and they allowed me to get fios about 2 weeks early. Ask the techs for the number (will see if I can find it and PM it to you) and get signed up to get it a little before others. I was the first person in Forest Grove to get it and they were shocked that I was getting it. So it never hurts to bug them a little about the dates, they may even have a tenative roll out date set up.

They were great about the install too, jut be sure to give them a heads up that you have TiVo and want the cards, the guys I had actually enjoyed the tivo set-up (it went easy) and said off the record that they wished the set top boxes were as nice as the tivo's.

[hmm52]

Eh? They're doing that right now, in conjunction with the analog shutdown.

I just noticed Verizon's statement of today - 25 or so HDs to be added starting in July as analogs are progressively closed out region by region.

[richsadams]

richadams:

I am in Forest Grove and they allowed me to get fios about 2 weeks early. Ask the techs for the number (will see if I can find it and PM it to you) and get signed up to get it a little before others. I was the first person in Forest Grove to get it and they were shocked that I was getting it. So it never hurts to bug them a little about the dates, they may even have a tenative roll out date set up.

They were great about the install too, jut be sure to give them a heads up that you have TiVo and want the cards, the guys I had actually enjoyed the tivo set-up (it went easy) and said off the record that they wished the set top boxes were as nice as the tivo's.Thanks for that...but I'm still a little leery of being the first on my block to get it. I yearn for that big broadband pipe and better HD PQ to be sure. But honestly, everything I have (Comcast triple package) is working without any issues. I'm worried about trading that for the possible problems I've read about here. I may wait a tad longer to see how it works for my neighbors. Sounds like your setup is humming along though which is encouraging. :up:

[Thos19]

Well, Verizon came out to my home to see my pixelation. Coincidentally or not, my pixelation started at the same time Verizon dropped the analog channels in my area, according to the technician. He said there was a new "filter" to put on the line that Verizon had been using recently in response to pixelation complaints. He also said my ONT was outdated (I had internet 2 years prior to TV being offered), and should be swapped. He did the work in about 30 minutes.

I really had my doubts that it would work, but the pixelation is completely gone for the moment, even with all of my attenuators removed. SNR still floats above the magic 31/32 (closer to 35/36), but I have zero uncorrected and zero corrected errors showing on the diagnostic screens. :D

Don't know how long this will last, but I'll keep the attenuators handy.

Thos.

[wmcbrine]

It seems they often do the ONT swap, just because it's one of the few things they can actually do there at the customer's premises -- not because there's actually anything wrong with the ONT. However, as I understand it, the newer ONTs have a slightly less hot TV output.

[richsadams]

Well, Verizon came out to my home to see my pixelation. Coincidentally or not, my pixelation stated at the same time Verizon dropped the analog channels in my area, according to the technician. He said there was a new "filter" to put on the line that Verizon had been using recently in response to pixelation complaints. He also said my ONT was outdated (I had internet 2 years prior to TV being offered), and should be swapped. He did the work in about 30 minutes.

I really had my doubts that it would work, but the pixelation is completely gone for the moment, even with all of my attenuators removed. SNR still floats above the magic 31/32 (closer to 35/36), but I have zero uncorrected and zero corrected errors showing on the diagnostic screens. :D

Don't know how long this will last, but I'll keep the attenuators handy.

Thos.Good post...thanks for that. Seems that they might be getting a handle on things. :up:

[JonHB]

I found out last night that a few of my recordings were missed because Tivo stated that there was no signal. Sure enough, the channels in question were completely black, not even pixelated. I removed my 10db attenuator and the channels came back. However, I now have pixelation on a new set of channels (different ones from when I first put the attenuator on). Yep, I'm starting to think there was something changing on VZ's end as well. I'm in SoCal, and unfortunately, I don't follow the news on the analog disco dates so I don't know for sure if that is related. My pixelation is now on Showtime HD and I'm probably going to drop those channels anyways...

[ilh]

Based on another thread in this forum, it would appear this "filter" is a low-pass filter so MoCA signals don't mess with the TiVo's tuners.

[hmm52]

Correct. In November one marked "Low Pass Filter 5~860MHz" was installed between splitter and feed from ONT. A few cable ends, splitter, router, and ONT were also swapped out for updated models in November. None of it made one iota of difference. The number and severity of tiling channels remained exactly as they were for weeks. It all cleared overnight a few days later. A tech said that the problems had been corrected at CO. Later I found out that some using Motorola boxes had difficulties in many, not all, areas served by VHO8 during the same period - to about the level seen on the Sonys, not the mess on the Toshiba. The S3 would have fried or been comatose had it been in place then.

I have been expecting a flurry of pixelation when Verizon drops the analogs, 6/23 here, then adds new channels later. I wasn't expecting it this soon. The FO men's final was a disaster throughout (tiling wise also). I was a jackass for not recording on antenna channel or backing up on one of the Sonys. Complacency. Tiling and no tune has coincided with changes made at VHO. I agree that Verizon in particular has challenged the TiVos' tuning abilities. But am I the only one disappointed by TiVoJerry's post a few days ago? His suggestions are appreciated and they're not inaccurate. Missing though was an acknowledgement that, in terms of QAM tuning, Tivo is bringing up the rear. To me this apparent acquiescence doesn't bode well for TiVo's current or future products. Bicker recently listed robustness as his top priority. I would settle for competitive performance. In the meantime I hope VHO8 and the Ambler CO get their acts together. Or it will be a rough summer for the S3.

[richsadams]

I would settle for competitive performance. Here, here! :up: :up:

[hmm52]

No reason for anybody out your way to be apprehensive about new installs. You might remember that my best stretch with FiOS TV was the first 8 months. Perfect. Error free (except for billing of course). And VHO8 - Philadelphia has a well earned reputation for [insert slanderous noun of choice here ____________] and it seems VZ is dragging its heels on updating early COs. Mine 3 years old now. So what's life like in/on Lake Oswego?

[richsadams]

Yep, still looking forward to FIOS' big pipe and lotsa HD channels. Life is good here...last weekend it snowed not too far from here. This weekend it will be 80 degrees or so. :confused: Other than that it's all good! (I usually hate that saying, but it applies at the moment.) :)

[Thos19]

Well that was brief.

My pixelation is back, as before. Noticed it as I was about to watch the NBA finals last night. It was only happening on one tuner, so I simply watch the game on the "good" tuner.

(sigh) Guess I gotta try the attenuators again, tonight.

Since this all started when they dropped the analog channels in my area, I wonder if things might improve when they add the new HD channels in early July. I can hope, right? Right? :(

Thos.

[ilh]

After reading about how MoCA can adversely affect the THD's tuners, I disconnected my FiOS-supplied ActionTec router from the coax. (It is connected to the ONT via Cat5 since I had FiOS internet long before TV was avilable.) After returning all my FiOS STB's, there was no point in having MoCA any longer for me.

Anyways, after doing this, I don't believe I have seen a single RS uncorrected error for several days. Before, I would get a few thousand over the course of a 4-hour NESN recording. The last several times I've checked, my RS uncorrected/corrected errors have been 0/0, even after 4-10 hours on channels that used to show occasional minor pixelation and RS uncorrected errors (e.g., NESNHD, DSCHD, etc...).

I think there is something to this MoCA interference, or at least ActionTec interference. Maybe I'll try removing my attenuators now.

--Lee

[Thos19]

The only pixelation I get is on the local HD channels 802-808. Anything above is perfect with no errors corrected or uncorrected.

I have my FIOS internet in the same set up as you, ilh, as I had it a year before FiosTV was made available in Abington, MA. Cat5 cable from the basement. Fios is just coaxial cable from the street.

I don't know much about MoCA. Care to elaborate further?

Thos.

[ilh]

I don't know much about MoCA. Care to elaborate further?The Verizon STBs talk to each other and the ActionTec router using MoCA, which is essentially ethernet over coax. This is how their DVR can stream content to other STBs.

MoCA uses frequencies above 1GHz, which shouldn't interfere with cable tuning (up to 850MHz with Fios, I believe). However, in a thread in this forum, a TiVo employee stated that MoCA can adversely affect a TiVo's tuning and that it is recommended to have a low-pass filter between MoCA and the TiVo, and that Verizon is now installing such filters in new installations with TiVos.

This does beg the question why is the TiVo's tuning affected by MoCA? It sounds like it is missing its own internal filter.

--Lee

[webin]

Is it possible to unplug the actiontec router from the system and see if the pixelation disappears? Would MoCa need to be disabled on the ONT at all (I'm not really sure how they work)? Does anyone with ethernet running to their ActionTec router experience pixelation?

If we can do field testing to determine if it's the actiontec router and/or moca, we could take steps to mitigate them. For instance, since I don't have any Verizon set-top boxes, I don't really need the actiontec router, and I don't need the moca.

[Rowan]

Does anyone with ethernet running to their ActionTec router experience pixelation?

I have ethernet running to my ActionTec from the ONT and still get pixelation but I do have two verizon boxs that are connected up to the ActionTecs moca connection.

[ilh]

I have ethernet running to my ActionTec from the ONT and still get pixelation but I do have two verizon boxs that are connected up to the ActionTecs moca connection.That was exactly my configuration. The ActionTec and your two STBs are talking MoCA. It might be worth taking your ActionTec and STBs off coax for an hour or two to see if it improves things for your TiVo. I wouldn't recommend leaving unterminated coax laying around though as that could cause other problems (reflections). Best would be to route your TiVo Coax straight to the ONT.

[webin]

Best would be to route your TiVo Coax straight to the ONT.

This is something I can do as a test, but with my schedule, I won't have much chance to until Wednesday evening. If anyone has the opportunity to try it earlier, I'd love to hear your results. Hopefully it will be "I saw pixelation, unplugged my router, pixelation went away, plugged it back in, pixelation came back."

[moyekj]

The Verizon STBs talk to each other and the ActionTec router using MoCA, which is essentially ethernet over coax. This is how their DVR can stream content to other STBs.

MoCA uses frequencies above 1GHz, which shouldn't interfere with cable tuning (up to 850MHz with Fios, I believe). However, in a thread in this forum, a TiVo employee stated that MoCA can adversely affect a TiVo's tuning and that it is recommended to have a low-pass filter between MoCA and the TiVo, and that Verizon is now installing such filters in new installations with TiVos.

This does beg the question why is the TiVo's tuning affected by MoCA? It sounds like it is missing its own internal filter.

--Lee FYI, I use MOCA with Motorola NIM100 boxes and 2 S3s and have not experienced any sustained visual interference issues. My cable company recently expanded to 850MHz for video channels and still no issues for me. As stated MOCA operates >= 1GHz. The NIM100 boxes can be configured to use different frequencies if desired, but I left them at their default which I believe is close to 1GHz.
I saw that statement by TivoJerry about MOCA possibly interfering which got me wondering, so I went and checked a few channels for which I noticed I was getting some RS correctable & uncorrectable counts. Unplugging my MOCA devices did not change anything and then a couple of days later I checked again (with my MOCA units plugged in) and there are no RS errors anymore, so I conclude that was a cable company signal issue that was cleared up. These were HD channels recently added to the lineup.

[webin]

It might be worth taking your ActionTec and STBs off coax for an hour or two to see if it improves things for your TiVo.

Does anyone know if I can physically reconnect the ethernet connection between my ActionTec and the ONT (and disconnect the coax connection) and reasonably expect the router to continue providing internet service? Would the home office need to reconfigure anything in the system, or would it simply work?

I briefly unplugged the coax to test it's affects on TV pixellation, but couldn't bear to be without my Internet long enough to get definitive results. My ONT still has a CAT-5 cable running into the box (but not plugged in), so all I would need to do is connect the actiontec to the wall.

[hmm52]

Verizon installed a low pass filter in November 2.5 months before buying first TiVo, an S3, but I did have 4 cablecard devices in place then. It did not decrease tiling.

The VZ filter is 40mm long; 14mm across the flats. (9/16 X 1.75"). Chrome with silver tape around center chamfer "5~860MHz Low pass filter". No brand or part # markings.

I have a free VZ STB connected in office but never use it. Currently I'm getting mild tiling through S3 on local HDs w/o attenuation so have 11dB att. at its cable input. For purpose of this post I removed attenuators then later disconnected Actiontec from splitter. No difference in tiling behavior on locals observed with or w/o router connected.

Living with FiOS and a TiVo could be miserable if not for attenuators - very dependent on your VHO and CO and how they're managing things at any one time. It varies much. I would think that they'd have enough sense to not add the new channels during the Olympics. Dropping the analogs here Monday. We'll see.

[webin]

The VZ filter is 40mm long; 14mm across the flats. (9/16 X 1.75"). Chrome with silver tape around center chamfer "5~860MHz Low pass filter". No brand or part # markings.

I have a free VZ STB connected in office but never use it. Currently I'm getting mild tiling through S3 on local HDs w/o attenuation so have 11dB att. at its cable input. For purpose of this post I removed attenuators then later disconnected Actiontec from splitter. No difference in tiling behavior on locals observed with or w/o router connected.



In the interest of data collection, is it possible for you to remove the low pass filter and repeat the with/without attenuator tests? (I assume you can screw it on/off the coax line like the attenuators).

I've been attempting to test the without/without actiontec-speaking-moca stuff on my simple setup, but the pixellation I was seeing in normal configuration was pretty weak today. It's hard to test when it's not broken.

[hmm52]

Sure. Thursday evening though. Note that my VZ feed has been improving through the week. Thursday's signal is anybody's guess.

I assume you've seen the benefits of attenuators. That's where you'll see dramatic change.

[webin]

Yep... I do notice a difference when I put a little attenuation on the line. Most of my pixellation comes on 801 (Local Fox) and 803 (Local CW). Without attenuation, they are usually bearable, but occasionally completely unwatchable. With 8dB attenuation, they are always watchable, with only occasional mild pixellation.... but 802 (ABC) will sometimes lose it's signal completely. In the last couple days (while trying to test), I've actually not seen very much pixellation at all, and currently don't have any attenuators on.

Go figure... as soon as I want to test a theory (moca interference), it gets better on its own. I'm sure it's just a temporary clear area and pixellation will return eventually.

[hmm52]

I ran a basic test to find effect of Verizon filter on tiling/pixelation through my S3. Without attenuators it has been medium to heavy on the local HDs this morning and evening. I've seen worse. Both test series were with no attenuation, VZ STB powered up, and channels tuned for 45-70 minutes. RS Uncorrected values are at per hour rate and rounded to nearest thousand.

(first series)--filter installed at splitter input. Actiontec coax disconnected

507MHz... ch816... 743k RS Unc
525MHz... ch812... 605k RS Unc
525MHz... ch817... 714k RS Unc
519MHz... ch813... 450k RS Unc

(second series)--filter removed from splitter. Actiontec coax connected

525MHz... ch817... 742k RS Unc
519MHz... ch813... 516k RS Unc

No tiling was observed on scan of other channels which have previously tiled - with and w/o filter. Tests were obviously limited but the filter doesn't look like a factor to me, not in pixelation. I'll leave it off to see if anything else crops up. 11db is doing the job at the moment.

[richsadams]

I ran a basic test to find effect of Verizon filter on tiling/pixelation through my S3. <snip>Good info. Thanks! :up:

[webin]

I was really looking forward to testing the moca theories tonight, but I can't get the dang thing to be anything other than perfect!

[hmm52]

Verizon is cooperating with my tests. Most of the locals are still coming in at over 10,000 RS Uncorrected errors per minute. I ran 3 more series, all with 11db attenuators at S3 input. The second of these failed because of a freeze/reboot, and was redone. RS Unc values and rates were checked only at beginnings and ends of tests, and found to be over 10,000/minute each time; end of last test was highest, 11,330 - without attenuation. Duration was over 9 hours for both series. RS Uncorrected at per hour rate. (not in thousands)

(3rd series)--filter removed 11db attenuation Actiontec coaxed

513 MHz... ch811... 25,056 RS Unc

(4th series)--filter installed 11db attenuation Actiontec coaxed

513 MHz... ch811........ 689 RS Unc

I'll rerun the tests for obvious reasons.

EDIT--- I'm wrapping up the tests because the quality of the VZ feed has shown itself to be too uneven. The final series were run this morning for an hour each. RS Uncorrected errors were very different when checked at end of each test for 15 minutes - attenuators removed.

(5th series)-- filter installed 11db atten. router coac connected

513 MHz... ch 811..... 5 RSU/hour....... With atten. removed - 1222 RSU/min.

(6th series)-- filter removed 11 db atten. router coax connected

513 MHz... ch 811..... 1 RSU/hour....... With atten. removed - 8667 RSU/min.

------- Anybody who wants to try my VZ filter in their setup is welcome to do that. Send me a PM. I don't think it diminishes pixelation in my configuration and use. Immediate and consistent results are what I'm looking for. Found with attenuation. Not found with the low pass filter.

[jpulver]

My Tivo HD worked fine with Comcast for a long time. Then my Tivo HD worked fine with Verizon FIOS for two months after I replaced Comcast with Verizon in January 2008. (Twelve hours for installation; an installer who had never seen a Tivo; great consternation.) By March, severe pixelation began on certain HD channels (the worst have been high-def CBS, ABC, NBC).

Verizon techs came and went more times than I can count. They were clueless. Most recently a tech tried everything he could think of (yet again) and then, as another tech had done before, he decided to swap out the cable cards. Big problem, however: He had never installed cable cards in a Tivo before. I was without service for two or three days while Verizon tried to figure out how they had screwed up my account. My account did not show that I am entitled to cable cards, so the cards wouldn't activate.

I called Tivo more than once, too, trying to get some help. The Tivo folks seemed to know less than Verizon, and certainly less than I had learned on this forum and elsewhere. Finally, a couple of days ago, I called Tivo and this time insisted on talking with someone who was familar with the pixelation problem involving Verizon FIOS and Tivo HD.

Here's what I was told this time: It's imperative that Verizon install a "low-pass filter" at the ONT, and that the signal then be attenuated at the cable outlet closest to the Tivo HD. To fine-tune, I was told to attach attenuators to the cable until the diagnostics page (Tivo Central/Messages & Settings/Account & System Information/Diagnostics) shows a signal strength below 95 and an SNR no higher than 30-35. I was told I could reduce the signal strength to as low as 70-75. I was told to keep adding attenuation until the pixelation stops.

The Tivo tech asked me to notify Verizon that the preceding procedures and instructions will rectify the problem. For some reason, he said, Tivo was having trouble getting the word spread throughout Verizon. Odd. He emphasized that BOTH the low-pass filter AND the attenuators are needed to eliminate the pixelation.

I was skeptical, after having worked on this problem for months, but willing to try one more time. The Verizon tech came back, installed a low-pass filter and gave me a bag of attenuators. After adding 12 db of attenuation, I still had some pixelation. But after adding a total of 14 db of attenuation the pixelation finally has gone away. (At least for the past two days; but this time I think it's been stopped for good.)

On the "bad" channels, my signal strength is now down to 68-75, and SNR down to 30-33. I still get some RS Uncorrected errors, but not nearly as many as before. The large number (millions, sometimes) of RS Uncorrected errors always coincided with the pixelation.

My concern now is that the HD picture quality has been diminished. I'll keep watching, and if I become certain that the picture quality is not worth it, I'll do what I've been threatening to do for three months: switch back to Comcast and pay the extra $20 a month for fewer channels.

I hope this post helps others struggling with this frustrating problem.

[richsadams]

My Tivo HD worked fine with Comcast for a long time. Then my Tivo HD worked fine with Verizon FIOS for two months after I replaced Comcast with Verizon in January 2008. <snip> I hope this post helps others struggling with this frustrating problem.That's very good info...thanks for the post. I'll keep it for the day that the VZ folks arrive at our doorstep, hopefully next month.

You have to wonder what happened between the time FIOS was installed and two months later to mess up your signal. :confused: Others have reported similar issues; worked for months and then all sorts of problems that could only be corrected with attenuation, and now it looks like a filter as well. Then it makes me wonder if things will change again sometime down the road as it appears to have for others posting here that were able to reduce or remove their attenuation to get decent PQ. Hopefully VZ is narrowing things down to a signal that will work for everyone.

Thanks again! :up:

[wmcbrine]

My concern now is that the HD picture quality has been diminished.Eh? Apart from actual errors (which appear as pixellation or dropouts), you can't affect the PQ from a digital signal. It's either there, or it's not. Attenuators cannot make it look worse (other than by causing dropouts).

[hmm52]

.....I was skeptical, after having worked on this problem for months, but willing to try one more time. The Verizon tech came back, installed a low-pass filter and gave me a bag of attenuators. After adding 12 db of attenuation, I still had some pixelation. But after adding a total of 14 db of attenuation the pixelation finally has gone away. (At least for the past two days; but this time I think it's been stopped for good.).....

My concern now is that the HD picture quality has been diminished. I'll keep watching, and if I become certain that the picture quality is not worth it, I'll do what I've been threatening to do for three months: switch back to Comcast and pay the extra $20 a month for fewer channels.

I hope this post helps others struggling with this frustrating problem.

I haven't noticed degradation in PQ with attenuation, as long as you don't push it too far and create pixelation or no tune with weak signals, anywhere in the lneup. Which is your VHO? My feed was perfect for 1st 8 months - VHO8 (Phia.) & local CO; off and on issues since then; very good for 3 month stretch until 2 weeks ago. Summer vacations?

Since the local HDs are the repeat offenders, I'll finish the Feb '09 antenna setup this weekend. It's better to get the locals reliably that way than receive aggravated calls from my wife, or sit down to recordings destroyed due to complacency. And if it's only the locals. you don't need attenuators with antenna in setup. I expect another rough period when VZ adds the new channels so fasten your seat belts.

As noted in edit to my previous post, I haven't found reason to believe in the low pass filter as a remedy for pixelation. Anyone who wants to try it for themselves, send me a PM.

[jpulver]

I hope you're right about attenuation not affecting PQ. I'll keep checking the PQ. Thanks.

[moyekj]

I hope you're right about attenuation not affecting PQ. I'll keep checking the PQ. Thanks. If you eliminate RS uncorrected errors and signal strength is OK then that's as good as it gets.

[jpulver]

My signal strength sometimes drops down to the 60s (with 14 db attenuation and a low-pass filter) but I'm still getting a picture. I still occasionally get a few hundred uncorrected errors (rather than the millions I was getting before the filter and attenuators), but no pixellation now. I think I'm good to go at this point. Finally.

Oh, and I think I'll soon decide that the picture quality has not been affected. I returned my tv's settings to default, and that seemed to do the trick.

[bhaas]

Any thoughts from folks why the filter should be installed at the ONT and not in front of the TiVo? There are no active components between the ONT and TiVo that can cause mixing or distortion products among the moca and TV signals- it would occur in the tivo's receiver. It seems, without knowing much about the setup, that the filter should be just upstream from the tivo. Clearly I don't understand something in the moca layout.

[rifleman69]

I hope you're right about attenuation not affecting PQ. I'll keep checking the PQ. Thanks.


He is right, this isn't analog anymore.

[rocko]

Here's what I was told this time: It's imperative that Verizon install a "low-pass filter" at the ONT, and that the signal then be attenuated at the cable outlet closest to the Tivo HD.

Wouldn't installing the low-pass filter at the ONT kill MoCA throughout the network? I guess it's OK if you don't have any STBs running but I imagine it would hose any MoCA dependent hardware. I, like others, am using NIMs to carry my ethernet to far-flung spots in my house.

Edit: Not to mention the Actiontec - I'm also a Verizon internet subscriber and am not running the ethernet from my ONT with cat 5.

I ask this in the interest of clarification, since I'm not (fingers crossed) experiencing major uncorrected errors. FYI I do have about 8db of attenuation on my S3 but none on my THD.

[ah30k]

Wouldn't installing the low-pass filter at the ONT kill MoCA throughout the network? I guess it's OK if you don't have any STBs running but I imagine it would hose any MoCA dependent hardware. I think the intent would be to install the low-pass just at the TiVo. Installing the low-pass at the ONT would do nothing since all of the MoCA sources would be on the local LAN.

[rocko]

I think the intent would be to install the low-pass just at the TiVo. Installing the low-pass at the ONT would do nothing since all of the MoCA sources would be on the local LAN.

When I said "throughout the network" I, of course, was referring to the local LAN. My point was that it would kill all MoCA traffic, screwing with VOD and the like.

[ah30k]

When I said "throughout the network" I, of course, was referring to the local LAN. My point was that it would kill all MoCA traffic, screwing with VOD and the like.A filter only stops signals going through the filter. If the filter is on any one device it would only stop the MoCA on that device. In this case, the filter on the ONT would prevent MoCA from going into the ONT. This neither helps the TiVo or stops the MoCA from working on the LAN. I don't thing the MoCA is used for VOD, just for inter-STB sharing. I am I am having a hard time explaining this in text form, the heat must be getting to me.

[bhaas]

VoD and guide data, etc are delivered to the ONT via IP transport... the data (1490nm, IIRC) not the television (1550nm) optical path. I am not sure how the STB receives the guide and VoD- dedicated TV band channel and signalling, I imagine

[hmm52]

I can't help with the speculation. I would tend to agree that if it's TiVos in particular that are having problems with the MoCA traffic then put the filters just ahead of them.

The tech who swapped out the ONT & splitter and installed the low pass filter, all in November, is the sharpest cable tech I've met. He is now the "Big Boss" for my general area. He is the only tech who has clipped a meter inside the ONT and read line errors at different frequencies directly from the street feed. This was after he checked everything thoroughly throughout the house. I know. It seems ass backwards but it's the Verizon way. Once he saw the volume of line errors at ONT, he told me it had to be corrected at the street or central office level. Within 36 hours it was.

He installed the LP Filter at the input side (from ONT) of a 6 way splitter. Included on the output side were 4 cablecard devices, none of them TiVo then, and a basic VZ SD STB. The filter hasn't interfered with VZ STB guide data. I've never used VOD - except what drifted over from neighbors through clearQAM while with Comcast.

[jpulver]

See my post above from six days ago. I have a low-pass filter at the ONT, which has had no effect on the picture quality through my four Verizon set-top boxes, which I have in addition to my TiVo HD.

I have added 16 db of attenuation (two 8 db attenuators) to the cable attached to the TiVo HD box. I had been told by TiVo to continue to add attenuation until the pixellation stops. (Fourteen db nearly fixed it; 16 db absolutely stopped the problem.)

Now, finally, after adding the low-pass filter and the attenuation (as TiVo had recommended), I have finally eliminated the pixellation entirely. These changes have not affected the picture quality through the TiVo HD nor through the four STBs.

Spread the word!

[ah30k]

Where did you get your LPF? Is that a standard RatShack item?

Anyone know if the LPF will fix the audio dropouts?

[jcostom]

See my post above from six days ago. I have a low-pass filter at the ONT, which has had no effect on the picture quality through my four Verizon set-top boxes, which I have in addition to my TiVo HD.

I have added 16 db of attenuation (two 8 db attenuators) to the cable attached to the TiVo HD box. I had been told by TiVo to continue to add attenuation until the pixellation stops. (Fourteen db nearly fixed it; 16 db absolutely stopped the problem.)

I added a 20 dB attenuator on Friday (tried 3 and 16 first), and throughout the weekend, we've been pixelation free. We didn't have it all the time, but since adding the attenuator, it hasn't returned. I don't have a low-pass filter installed at this time. What symptoms would I be seeing were I in need of the low-pass filter?

[thegeek]

Instead of a low pass filter, has anybody tried a diplexer? You could ask your installer if they could toss you a MoCA NID and a pair of terminator caps. Heck, some installers are even putting in a MoCA NID even if it's not needed, so you might already own a spare one :-)

The NID is basically a diplexer that allows an installer to splice in a MoCA signal on top of another provider's video feed, since they run on different frequencies.

There are 4 ports on a MoCA NID.

RF out
ONT In
Home Coax
CATV In

In this application, you would plug your coax feed into ONT In, and then another cable into the RF out and have that feed the Tivo. Cap the other two off with 75 ohm terminator caps.

[ah30k]

Th problem is that if there are any STBs on the RF-LAN then the MoCA is already diplexed onto the RF cable and will get into the TiVo through the ONT-in.

edit - proved wrong. isn't the first and certainly won't be the last. I thought a diplexer added the two signals together but it turns out there is a low-pass on one input and a high-pass on the other prior to them getting added together.

[thegeek]

I was suggesting putting the NID right at the Tivo.

FYI, I'm parked at an SNR of 37 dB and it's purring like a kitten though I've only had the cards installed as of a few hours ago. The installer was kind enough to leave me with a handful of attenuators.

I had to throw 16 dB of attenuation to get it down to an SNR of 31 dB which drove the signal strength down to around 50. Got piles of uncorrecteds and the picture was breaking up. I'll keep the attenuators around just in case, but so far so good.

I currently do not have MoCA.

[ah30k]

I was suggesting putting the NID right at the Tivo.

...

I currently do not have MoCA.If you don't have MoCA then no worries.

If you did have MoCA on your local RF LAN (ie Verizon supplied STBs) then the MoCA signals would traverse through the NID un-impeded.

edit - proved wrong. isn't the first and certainly won't be the last. I thought a diplexer added the two signals together but it turns out there is a low-pass on one input and a high-pass on the other prior to them getting added together.

[bhaas]

the Tivo site specifically states a LPF or diplexer can be used (support article 5-12-01).

A diplexer combines or splits out two different frequency bands, effectively filtering one from the other. A sat/antenna diplexer's cutoff on the antenna side is about 800MHz, and MoCA typically runs 950-1050MHz.

One word- a filter or diplexer may not always be a full solution- MoCA is designed to be able to run the "wrong" way across splitters and suffer lots of attenuation, so even a filter will not always knock it down completely.

RS has them for $21.99, p/n 16-2567. Circuit City has one for $8.95.
You need to install the diplexer "backwards"- connect the cable from the wall to the "TV" terminal (one terminal end), and connect the TiVo to the "ant" terminal. You need to put a 75Ohm termination cap on the "sat" terminal (6-pack at RS for a few dollars).

FWIW< I put one in on the HD I was having issues with and it DID make a significant difference.

[ah30k]

You're right. After further looking into it, I was mistaken. Thanks.

[Deanq4]

the Tivo site specifically states a LPF or diplexer can be used (support article 5-12-01).

A diplexer combines or splits out two different frequency bands, effectively filtering one from the other. A sat/antenna diplexer's cutoff on the antenna side is about 800MHz, and MoCA typically runs 950-1050MHz.

One word- a filter or diplexer may not always be a full solution- MoCA is designed to be able to run the "wrong" way across splitters and suffer lots of attenuation, so even a filter will not always knock it down completely.

RS has them for $21.99, p/n 16-2567. Circuit City has one for $8.95.
You need to install the diplexer "backwards"- connect the cable from the wall to the "TV" terminal (one terminal end), and connect the TiVo to the "ant" terminal. You need to put a 75Ohm termination cap on the "sat" terminal (6-pack at RS for a few dollars).

FWIW< I put one in on the HD I was having issues with and it DID make a significant difference.

did you put it at the wall terminal or on the ONT?