Making a drive quieter

[bap]

Hi all,

I recently replaced my TivoHD drive with a Western Digital 750gb drive (WD7500AYYS). The upgrade went smoothly, but the drive is a little noisier than I had anticipated. The Tivo is in my bedroom and when I'm trying to sleep the clicking of the constant seeking is very distracting. It sounds a bit like a cricket chirping to me... Is there anything I can do to quiet it down?

-Bruce

[richsadams]

Yes, you can adjust the automatic acoustical management (AAM) of the drive from the OEM setting (probably 250+) down to 128. This will reduce the seek noise you are hearing but will not affect the performance of the drive/TiVo.

You'll need to reconnect the drive to your PC and use the Hitachi Feature Tool (http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/download.htm#FeatureTool) (works with all drives except Seagate's which cannot be adjusted). This is a firmware adjustment and will not affect your recordings, etc.

http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/download.htm#FeatureTool

[Mars Rocket]

You can also use the latest WinMFS utility, if that's what you used to do the upgrade.

[richsadams]

You can also use the latest WinMFS utility, if that's what you used to do the upgrade.DOH! :o Absolutely right.

[mrogers]

Yes, you can adjust the automatic acoustical management (AAM) of the drive from the OEM setting (probably 250+) down to 128. This will reduce the seek noise you are hearing but will not affect the performance of the drive/TiVo.

You'll need to reconnect the drive to your PC and use the Hitachi Feature Tool (http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/download.htm#FeatureTool) (works with all drives except Seagate's which cannot be adjusted). This is a firmware adjustment and will not affect your recordings, etc.

http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/download.htm#FeatureTool

I just upgraded my TiVo HD with a 500GB Maxtor the other day which is *horrendously* loud when seeking. Before I start ripping things apart again, does anyone know if this Hitachi tool will work on recent Maxtors? I know Seagate bought Maxtor, but who knows how these patent lawsuits work...I'm hoping it's possible they were allowed to leave the AM features in Maxtor-branded drives. If anyone has any knowledge about this I'd appreciate it.

[hurl03]

You can also use the latest WinMFS utility, if that's what you used to do the upgrade.

Unless I am missing something there is no option in WinMFS to adjust AAM. If there is can someone point it out to me?

[brettatk]

Unless I am missing something there is no option in WinMFS to adjust AAM. If there is can someone point it out to me?

I was wondering the same thing. Would be nice to go ahead and do it instead of having to take the drive back out of the Tivo at a later time.

[MapleLeaf]

My understanding was that MFSLive supported setting AAM (via "hdparm -M"), but WinMFS did not. Mars Rocket and richsadams, was this functionality added to WinMFS recently?

[richsadams]

My understanding was that MFSLive supported setting AAM (via "hdparm -M"), but WinMFS did not. Mars Rocket and richsadams, was this functionality added to WinMFS recently?Sorry, I'm not the one to ask...I made an ASSupmtion. I still use MFSLive/Linux boot disk to tinker around. Spike would be able to tell you for sure on his forum (http://www.mfslive.org/forums/).

As long as the drive is attached to the PC I would think it would be just as easy to use the Hitachi Feature Tool (http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/download.htm#FeatureTool). But if it's included in WinMFS, all the better.

[hurl03]

Sorry, I'm not the one to ask...I made an ASSupmtion. I still use MFSLive/Linux boot disk to tinker around. Spike would be able to tell you for sure on his forum (http://www.mfslive.org/forums/).

As long as the drive is attached to the PC I would think it would be just as easy to use the Hitachi Feature Tool (http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/download.htm#FeatureTool). But if it's included in WinMFS, all the better.

The Hitachi Feature tool didn't work for me using a usb to sata adapter, but MFS Live did. The interesting thing was the the original TiVo drive was set at 254. I need to take out one of my upgraded drives to see what they are set at and if there is any noticeable difference with the lower aam settings...

[RoyK]

Ever consider unscrewing the drive from the bracket and using a few pieces of foam tape to secure it and isolate it from the enclosure which acts as a sound box?

[Mars Rocket]

Yes, WinMFS (at least the latest version) has the option under Tools or something like that - I can't check now because it only shows up if you have the drive connected. But it is there, and I used it (successfully) on the drive that's now in my TiVoHD.

[richsadams]

Ever consider unscrewing the drive from the bracket and using a few pieces of foam tape to secure it and isolate it from the enclosure which acts as a sound box?I saw a little "hard drive silencer" kit in Fry's that included silicone washers for the mounting screws as well as a couple of small sheets of foam like you describe. I don't remember how much it cost, but it's probably a lot more than a DIY effort. ;)

I guess the only thing I’d worry about would be wrapping a drive up to the point where it can’t dissipate heat properly.

[RoyK]

I saw a little "hard drive silencer" kit in Fry's that included silicone washers for the mounting screws as well as a couple of small sheets of foam like you describe. I don't remember how much it cost, but it's probably a lot more than a DIY effort. ;)

I guess the only thing I’d worry about would be wrapping a drive up to the point where it can’t dissipate heat properly.

I've used the foam tape mount method to mount extra drives in PCs that didn't have enough bays. It works fine although I wouldn't recommend shipping a unit with the drive mounted that way. That stuff holds quite securely -- I had to pry them to get them off later -- so long as you clean both surfaces very well and wipe with a little alcohol to make sure any oil is removed.

You're right, of course, about not wrapping the drive. But that isn't really necessary.

[mrogers]

I just upgraded my TiVo HD with a 500GB Maxtor the other day which is *horrendously* loud when seeking. Before I start ripping things apart again, does anyone know if this Hitachi tool will work on recent Maxtors? I know Seagate bought Maxtor, but who knows how these patent lawsuits work...I'm hoping it's possible they were allowed to leave the AM features in Maxtor-branded drives. If anyone has any knowledge about this I'd appreciate it.

Anyone? ...used Hitachi Feature Tool successfully on a recent Maxtor drive? I can hear the drive seeking over the audio from shows I'm watching.

[hurl03]

Yes, WinMFS (at least the latest version) has the option under Tools or something like that - I can't check now because it only shows up if you have the drive connected. But it is there, and I used it (successfully) on the drive that's now in my TiVoHD.

Just downloaded the latest version, WinMFS and there is no option for AAM on any of the menus when a drive is connected via usb to sata adapter. I think you are mistaken. I have asked spike to comment for confirmation.

[Mars Rocket]

I may have been thinking of the MFSLive CD - it has hdparm on it which you can use to set AAM. See here (http://www.mfslive.org/softwareguidep6.htm#aam) for info on that. I did use the Windows software to do my actual upgrade.

[richsadams]

Anyone? ...used Hitachi Feature Tool successfully on a recent Maxtor drive? I can hear the drive seeking over the audio from shows I'm watching.Maxtor?! :eek: *Shudder*. Sorry... historically I've just had terrible luck with Maxtor drives. I know they're owned by Seagate now (which I have several of and love, well, at least like a lot), but I still give Maxtors a wide bearth.

If it's a fairly new drive and if IIRC, you cannot change the AAM to make it quieter. Hitachi's Feature Tool works on most everything except Seagates and I'll make a leap and say probably not on Maxtors either. :( Perhaps someone else can verify that?

If you do decide to give it a go, let us know what you find out.

[brettatk]

Quick question about the Hitachi Feature Tool. Does it matter whether the sata drive is connected to the pc with a SATA->USB adapter or with a sata cable?

[richsadams]

Quick question about the Hitachi Feature Tool. Does it matter whether the sata drive is connected to the pc with a SATA->USB adapter or with a sata cable?I've never tried connecting a SATA drive with a USB adapter (although I have one sitting here :rolleyes:)

IIRC someone else posted that they weren't able to get some software running using a USB/SATA adapter, so it may or may not work...not sure.

If your PC is fairly recent it should have at least a couple of SATA connectors on the MB. SATA cables are very cheap, so if you can I'd recommend just opening up your PC and connecting your SATA drive using a proper SATA cable. You'd also need to power the drive...they make inexpensive 4 pin molex plug to 15 pin SATA connectors if needed as well. I found this web (http://www.macgurus.com/productpages/sata/SATACables.php) page which shows both. The combination cable at the very bottom of the page is probably ideal...about $10.

http://i15.tinypic.com/6pk3es8.jpg

D'oh...I just noticed it's out of stock. :mad: Anyway, there are other choices that will do the trick.

[mrogers]

Maxtor?! :eek: *Shudder*. Sorry... historically I've just had terrible luck with Maxtor drives. I know they're owned by Seagate now (which I have several of and love, well, at least like a lot), but I still give Maxtors a wide bearth.

Yeah same here...this was my first Maxtor purchase in years and years, and I only did it because Seagate now owns them. I love Seagate...my 2TB file server is mostly Seagate drives. But this ultra-noisy Maxtor shows me that a Maxtor is still not as good as a Seagate.

That said, I wound up ordering a 500GB Western Digital drive (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822136073) today (the Caviar SE16, which is supposedly known for being very quiet...at the very least I'll be able to set AAM on that drive) for $105 shipped. I'll just sell the Maxtor or put it in my server. I should have done more research before ordering it in the first place.

[richsadams]

Yeah same here...this was my first Maxtor purchase in years and years, and I only did it because Seagate now owns them. I love Seagate...my 2TB file server is mostly Seagate drives. But this ultra-noisy Maxtor shows me that a Maxtor is still not as good as a Seagate.

That said, I wound up ordering a 500GB Western Digital drive (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822136073) today (the Caviar SE16, which is supposedly known for being very quiet...at the very least I'll be able to set AAM on that drive) for $105 shipped. I'll just sell the Maxtor or put it in my server. I should have done more research before ordering it in the first place.Sounds good, and the Hitachi Feature Tool works fine with WD drives. I still don't think you can adjust the AAM on Seagates. There was some lawsuit years ago and they discontinued that feature. But my understanding is that they set it at the factory based on perceived/planned use...some are much quieter than others. Our DB35 is whisper quiet while I've got a Barracuda in my PC that tends to make a bit of racket.

BTW, what the heck is a bearth? :confused: Oh, I guess I meant berth. :rolleyes:

[mrogers]

Well I've got everything torn apart right now and have the new Western Digital drive connected in my PC via a PCI SATA card, and the Hitachi Feature Tool doesn't see any drives, even though I saw the drive detected by the SATA card's BIOS during boot-up. Any ideas?

EDIT: Never mind, figured it out. The Hitachi software would only see the drive if it was connected to the FIRST port on my SATA card; I initially had it on the third port. Despite the drive being detected successfully by BIOS, Hitachi Tool refused unless it was on port 1. How wonderfully archaic. Like when it used to matter which RAM slots we used first.

[Deanq4]

Any body have luck setting AAM over a USB>SATA connection?

Looks like MFSlive will do it, but can I use MFSlive for just that then use WinMFS for the setting up and copying the new drive for replacement.

If I do that should I set the AAM first, then copy, or last. Does it matter?

[spike2k5]

If I do that should I set the AAM first, then copy, or last. Does it matter?

Doesn't matter but AAM set to higher value makes copying faster.

[Deanq4]

Doesn't matter but AAM set to higher value makes copying faster.

Thanks, I thought that.

Likely I will take pictures and do a detailed write up for others to follow (provided that mine is a success)

[markandjenn]

Maxtor?! :eek: *Shudder*. Sorry... historically I've just had terrible luck with Maxtor drives. I know they're owned by Seagate now (which I have several of and love, well, at least like a lot), but I still give Maxtors a wide bearth.

If it's a fairly new drive and if IIRC, you cannot change the AAM to make it quieter. Hitachi's Feature Tool works on most everything except Seagates and I'll make a leap and say probably not on Maxtors either. :( Perhaps someone else can verify that?

If you do decide to give it a go, let us know what you find out.

I can confirm that you cannot use the Hitachi tools to quiet the Maxtor drive. I just tried to use it over the weekend on my new drive. The Hitachi tool states that the Maxtor drive "is not supported". :(

[rainwater]

Looks like MFSlive will do it, but can I use MFSlive for just that then use WinMFS for the setting up and copying the new drive for replacement.

MFSLive is just a live cd so you can boot into it and change the AAM setting and it will not make any other changes. However, I thought WinMFS contained this feature as well (maybe its a bit hidden).

[richsadams]

I can confirm that you cannot use the Hitachi tools to quiet the Maxtor drive. I just tried to use it over the weekend on my new drive. The Hitachi tool states that the Maxtor drive "is not supported". :(Thanks for that...makes sense. I vaugely remember a Maxtor diagnostic program but I'm not sure if it had any AAM options but I've no idea if it still exists.

[csiddens]

So far, I've been unable to adjust AAM on my Western Digital Drive. The converter worked perfectly to set the drive up, but WinMFS/MFSLive both report errors trying to set AAM. The Hitachi feature tool didn't recognize any AAM capable drives either.

[richsadams]

So far, I've been unable to adjust AAM on my Western Digital Drive. The converter worked perfectly to set the drive up, but WinMFS/MFSLive both report errors trying to set AAM. The Hitachi feature tool didn't recognize any AAM capable drives either.FWIW I adjusted the AAM on the retail version of the WD 1TB GP drive I have down to 128 and to be honest I could hardly tell the difference from the stock settings. And that's with the bare drive sitting outside my PC.

IMHO it's a very quiet drive to start with (as quiet as my Seagate DB35) so unless TiVo's on your nightstand I don't think you need to worry about it.

[rturrentine]

Did anyone get MFSLive or any other tool working to set the AAM on a drive using a USB/SATA converter?

I only have a laptop so the USB converter is what I need to use.

I used WinMFS to add a new 1TB WD GP (recent BestBuy sale) to my TivoHD. It's makes more noise than I would like. I also would like to adjust my older Series 2 with a WD 320GB drive (it's even louder).

MFSLive sees the drive but gives error when trying to set the AAM using hdparm. I can't mount the drive either. I tried both the SATA and the IDE drive (using Sabrient USB IDE/SATA connector).

I couldn't hear the stock drive in the TivoHD but I can certainly hear the 1TB drive.

[jakerock]

OK I assumed the answer was to leave the wife and kids at home.

[richsadams]

Did anyone get MFSLive or any other tool working to set the AAM on a drive using a USB/SATA converter?

I only have a laptop so the USB converter is what I need to use.

I used WinMFS to add a new 1TB WD GP (recent BestBuy sale) to my TivoHD. It's makes more noise than I would like. I also would like to adjust my older Series 2 with a WD 320GB drive (it's even louder).

MFSLive sees the drive but gives error when trying to set the AAM using hdparm. I can't mount the drive either. I tried both the SATA and the IDE drive (using Sabrient USB IDE/SATA connector).

I couldn't hear the stock drive in the TivoHD but I can certainly hear the 1TB drive.Did you try using the Hitachi Feature Tool (http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/download.htm#FeatureTool)? I've no idea if it will work with the setup you've described (and can think of a couple of reasons why it might not) but it might be worth a try.

[rturrentine]

Did you try using the Hitachi Feature Tool (http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/download.htm#FeatureTool)? I've no idea if it will work with the setup you've described (and can think of a couple of reasons why it might not) but it might be worth a try.

I did try the Hitachi Feature Tool using my USB->SATA/IDE connector and it did not see the drive.

Short of buying a PCI SATA card for my old desktop, I will try another tool I found call HDDScan. I also found WinAAM but it doesn't work for drives connected via USB either.

[richsadams]

I did try the Hitachi Feature Tool using my USB->SATA/IDE connector and it did not see the drive.

Short of buying a PCI SATA card for my old desktop, I will try another tool I found call HDDScan. I also found WinAAM but it doesn't work for drives connected via USB either.Thanks for the feedback and let us know how it goes. Your info will be valuable for those that follow in your footsteps!

BTW, have you taken a close look at the MB in your old PC? I have an Intel board in one of mine that's about five plus years old and it has several SATA connectors.

[jlib]

I did try the Hitachi Feature Tool using my USB->SATA/IDE connector and it did not see the drive.Hitachi Feature Tool uses a ancient basic DOS boot disk so it explicitly will not work with USB (which came out mid 90s). There have been many reports of success with a Linux boot disk (such as MFSLive) and hdparm command using USB/SATA adapters . It looks like your experience implies that certain USB/SATA adapters don't work well for that, though. If you want to be adventurous, take a look at the latter day effort to add USB support to DOS (http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquirer/news/2003/06/27/yes-there-are-usb-drivers-for-dos). Boot with that then you could try the Hitachi Feature Tool.

[Joybob]

Rubber Grommets yo.

[ciper]

Joybob has it right. You can do it on the cheap if you follow instructions here http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=225234

[Joybob]

Joybob has it right. You can do it on the cheap if you follow instructions here http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=225234

On the cheap? Dude, these cost 4 bucks.

http://www.silenx.com/accessories.asp?sku=ixa-gm4

Silence = worth 4 bucks.

[rturrentine]

My TivoHD has grommets on the hard drive mount already. My noise is from the heads. Hopefully I can try to the DOS USB drivers this weekend or just get a PCI SATA card for my 10yr old PC.

[jlib]

Right, the HD and the S3 already have isolation grommets.

[ciper]

On the cheap? Dude, these cost 4 bucks.

http://www.silenx.com/accessories.asp?sku=ixa-gm4

Silence = worth 4 bucks.
You misunderstood my post. I was agreeing with you and the thread I linked to had an option that was only 2$.

[Acropora]

I'd say the 1tb wd ec32 drive is about twice as loud as the stock drive. No biggie but a little annoying.

[ciper]

I made two small modifications to the Seagate 7200.11 drive in my THD to reduce the noise. First I loosened the four screws that mount through the silicon gromets. Second I had stuff called "quake hold" which is very similar to silly putty and placed a 4x3x.25 square on top of the drive.

The extra free play in the gromets and the increased mass of the drive reduced some of the buzzing and softened the clunks.

[richsadams]

I made two small modifications to the Seagate 7200.11 drive in my THD to reduce the noise. First I loosened the four screws that mount through the silicon gromets. Second I had stuff called "quake hold" which is very similar to silly putty and placed a 4x3x.25 square on top of the drive. Since hard drives dissipate their heat through the top and bottom and areas and you've covered the top with some material, how is the temp now?

[V7Goose]

I have a Gigabyte MB with two SATA controllers. I am trying to set up a new WD 1TB upgrade drive for my S3. I have the WD drive connected directly to SATA port, and Windows sees it just fine. The problem is that the Hitachi Feature Tool in DOS does not see any SATA drives (it does see the one IDE drive in the computer). Anyone have an idea on what I need to do for these SATA drives to be visible in DOS? Thanx,
Goose

[jlib]

It is probably not worth the effort to try and debug the recognition problem especially since any Linux live CD type boot disk will most likely see your drive hence you can use hdparm command.

[jtown]

Thanks for that...makes sense. I vaugely remember a Maxtor diagnostic program but I'm not sure if it had any AAM options but I've no idea if it still exists.

Maxtor used to have a program called amset which worked on their drives. Try Ultimate Boot CD (http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/) for just about any kind of diagnostic and/or management tool you can think of. It has amset (and feature tool and a whole lot of other utilities).

[V7Goose]

Just in case someone else with a similar problem comes across this - I found that I had to have the SATA drive connected to a controller configured in the BIOS for PATA (non RAID, non AHCI). In addition, it had to be in the MASTER position on the SATA controller, not the slave.

One other note - my WD10EVCS was already set for AAM 128, just like someone else reported.
Goose

[jlib]

Just in case someone else with a similar problem comes across this - I found that I had to have the SATA drive connected to a controller configured in the BIOS for PATA (non RAID, non AHCI). In addition, it had to be in the MASTER position on the SATA controller, not the slave.Good point on the Advanced Host Controller Interface (AHCI). Most Windows Vista machines will have AHCI on by default which won't make any sense to a DOS boot disk. It needs to see a vanilla [S]ATA interface. Not sure what you meant regarding the master/slave comment because master/slave doesn't apply to SATA just the old PATA. Do you mean you had to use the first available SATA cable for it to work?

[richsadams]

Maxtor used to have a program called amset which worked on their drives. Try Ultimate Boot CD (http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/) for just about any kind of diagnostic and/or management tool you can think of. It has amset (and feature tool and a whole lot of other utilities).Thanks for the link...amazing list of programs for a one-stop-shop! Not sure when I'll use it, but I'm sure it'll come in handy one of these days. Cheers for that. :up:

[V7Goose]

Good point on the Advanced Host Controller Interface (AHCI). Most Windows Vista machines will have AHCI on by default which won't make any sense to a DOS boot disk. It needs to see a vanilla [S]ATA interface. Not sure what you meant regarding the master/slave comment because master/slave doesn't apply to SATA just the old PATA. Do you mean you had to use the first available SATA cable for it to work?
Each SATA head has two ports. One is primary. In my BIOS, they are shown as Master and Slave. You are right that SATA does not use master and slave jumpers on the drives, but internally the concept still exists in the controller, no matter what terms are used.
Goose

[Frank Furter]

Some good info here, but I'm sure there's many out there like me that have a lot of head noise (constant incessant clicking and accessing, ALL NIGHT LONG). Funny how those drives will do that..... :^)

Any thoughts on quieting noisy access? I don't think silly putty or grommets will help that. I'd consider swapping the drive out if I knew of someone much smarter than me (read - anyone else here) that could recommend a replacement.

[richsadams]

Some good info here, but I'm sure there's many out there like me that have a lot of head noise (constant incessant clicking and accessing, ALL NIGHT LONG). Funny how those drives will do that..... :^)

Any thoughts on quieting noisy access? I don't think silly putty or grommets will help that. I'd consider swapping the drive out if I knew of someone much smarter than me (read - anyone else here) that could recommend a replacement.Stock TiVo drives are fairly quiet to begin with. The drive's acoustic management is set to the lowest level possible. If your stock TiVo drive has always had the same noise level, a replacement may only be somewhat quieter. Sound can be mitigated in very quiet/sensitive situations such as bedrooms by isolating the unit and/or the drive using some earlier suggestions on this thread. If the drive is getting louder there's a possibility that it may be heading toward failure.

This post (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160) will probably answer everything you need to know about replacing your TiVo's hard drive, in particular Section III, #27 regarding recommended replacement drives and their acoustic rating as well as #30 which gives you all of the info you need to replace it using your existing drive as the original image. Or you can simply purchase one of the recommended replacement drives and use Instant Cake (http://www.dvrupgrade.com/dvr/stores/1/instantcake.cfm).

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.