TiVo HD and Picture Quality

[BrennanU]

Hi. I hope I am not asking questions answered in other threads. I am considering buying one of the new HD TiVo units (one of the 299.99 ones). I will be upgrading from a Single tuner series 2 unit. On the series 2, I notice a picture quality difference between the TV directly hooked up from cable company than when I run it through the TiVo. Will I notice something like this with a HD unit?

TIA,
Brennan

[BrennanU]

Also, I am reading about the need for CableCards. Correct me if I am wrong but, I will need two cards for the use of HDTV on both tuners. In general will I need to pay double for two cards instead of one?

[Stephen Tu]

There is an inevitable loss of quality involved when you are recording from the analog channels as the Tivo has to encode them, the TivoHD won't be substantially different in this regard.

However, recording on the digital channels is essentially lossless, as it's making a digital copy of the transmission. Assuming adequate signal strength any flaws were in the transmission itself. So picture on any digital channel will be as good as provided, HD should be excellent, SD can be variable. Furthermore, in many areas cable companies are now doing a digital simulcast of the analog channels, and the TivoHD will be able to use these. Search the avsforum.com Local HDTV info section for your area/provider to find out if they are using "ADS".

[bkdtv]

The TiVoHD and Series3 record the original digital bitstream on digital channels. Recordings made from digital channels are 100% bit-for-bit identical to the original.

Analog channels must still be converted (encoded) to digital before they can be written to disk, and that involves some quality loss. It is increasingly common for cable providers to offer digital simulcast, and a CableCard is able to eliminate most analog channels on those systems. The CableCard maps separate digital versions of each channel where the analog channels used to be (ex: channel 70 might be analog without a CableCard, but digital with a CableCard).

Also, I am reading about the need for CableCards. Correct me if I am wrong but, I will need two cards for the use of HDTV on both tuners. In general will I need to pay double for two cards instead of one?The TiVoHD only requires a single MCARD to support both tuners. The older Tivo Series3 currently requires two CableCards to support both tuners.

[Stephen Tu]

Also, I am reading about the need for CableCards. Correct me if I am wrong but, I will need two cards for the use of HDTV on both tuners. In general will I need to pay double for two cards instead of one?

The TivoHD can use just a single multistream "M-card" to use both tuners. The older S3 model currently requires 2 cards, either "M-cards" or the older single stream "S-cards". How much/if you have to pay per card is provider/area dependent. E.g. Comcast bundles the first card with the digital cable fee, charges some small amount (usu < $2/month) for the second card. YMMV considerably for other providers, search the sticky "Official cablecard" thread above for the one appropriate to you.

[BrennanU]

Thank you all for your time and quick responses. I am considering putting an LCD HDTV on top of our fireplace and was just wondering about the upgrade. I need to contact my cable company and check on the cost, but I think that we will probably go with the HD unit.

Thanks again!
Brennan

[Bob723]

I have digital and HD cable. I watched live tv and recorded tv through my old Series 2 TiVo. I do the same with the HD but WOW, what a difference. I think you should get the same quality that you see through the cable box now. Regarding cable cards, the HD does only need one M-card however your cable company may only have the S-cards - at least that was the case for me. I had no choice but to get 2 cards. I have Charter cable - they charge $1.50 a month for each card. If you have a cable box now, you may also want to ask what happens to the cost of your cable package if you get rid of the box. My cost skyrocketed because Charter doesn't offer any packages for cable cards. I ended up getting the box back in order to bring the price down.

Good luck. You won't regret getting the HD. I love mine!

[ewilts]

Hi. I hope I am not asking questions answered in other threads. I am considering buying one of the new HD TiVo units (one of the 299.99 ones). I will be upgrading from a Single tuner series 2 unit. On the series 2, I notice a picture quality difference between the TV directly hooked up from cable company than when I run it through the TiVo. Will I notice something like this with a HD unit?

It depends on the cable company but many now simulcast both analog and digital versions of the same programming. The CableCARD determines which you actually see. In my environment, I get significantly better picture quality with my Series 3 TiVo than I was getting before with my Series 2 TiVo. Some channels that were almost unwatchable before are now crystal clear.

.../Ed

[ewilts]

Also, I am reading about the need for CableCards. Correct me if I am wrong but, I will need two cards for the use of HDTV on both tuners. In general will I need to pay double for two cards instead of one?
In general, it depends :-).
Comcast has a formal policy on these charges and you can find this published online. The first CableCARD is included with any digital package. The 2nd CableCARD on the same outlet is an additional $1.50 per month. They then charge for a 2nd outlet if you have another TiVo.

Other cable companies charge differently. Some charge double and some don't charge at all. Even though Comcast has a formal policy, they sometimes don't follow it and if you're overcharged, it's up to you to argue the point with them.

.../Ed

[cgould]

My Tivo S3 does an AWESOME job of upconverting analog channels, as well as SD digital ones, and of course HD.
It's a better picture than any other method, significantly, especially SD digital.

The cable boxes are often notoriously bad at upconverting SD especially analog, notably Comcast Motorola ones (and supposedly they don't even pass full 1080i HD resolution on either, bit degraded.)

The "digitized" picture quality of the S3 is significantly improved vs my S1 tivo, they changed the bitrate/quality a bit to be higher/better.

If you like the S2, and you're getting an HD capable TV, and you like picture quality, I'd strongly recommend a TivoHD upgrade.