First they...

[yunlin12]

First they ignored clear QAM mapping
I said nothing
I have cable cards

Then they caused pixelation on SciAt cable cards
I said nothing
I'm in Motorola area

Then they broke HDMI handshake
I said nothing
Mine is working

Then cable deployed SDV
I said nothing
My area is not affected

When finally my Tivo broke
There is no one left to help

[bizzy]

the problem is that they know that the only alternative to their product is even worse. there is no incentive for them to improve, and in fact a large incentive for them to drop software and customer service quality even further. offering anything more than a marginal value increase over the competition is 'wasted' money.

welcome to the beginning in earnest of tivo's race to the bottom.

[TexasGrillChef]

Complain all you want.... but TiVo is still better then anything Cable/Sat has to offer.

You really want to change things. Write your congressmen/Senators/FCC/FTA and make complaints about how cable/sat is doing buisness.

Force deregulation on cable companies. Prevent them from even offering cable/sat box's. There was a time when you had to use the phone the phone company provided (Land lines). Now they can't even sell you a phone. Only the service, & look at the number of fantastic land line phones available.

One other problem. Great Home electronic companies such as sony, panasonic, pioneer, lg, (the list goes on) are to scared to invest money in DVR's. Mainly because of the control the Cable/Sat companies have, as well as the control from major networks & studios.

The problem isn't with TiVo, it's with the Networks, Cable/Sat companies & Studios.
TiVo is doing the best they can with keeping up with all of the demands that those corporations & we as consumers are putting on them.

IMHO they (TiVo) are doing the best they can with what they have to work with & with the limited resources they have as well. TiVo, doesn't have the BILLIONS of dollars that Sony or other CE corporations have.

Think about this. TiVo's only compition in the DVR market is other Cable/Sat companies. There aren't any real competitors for TiVo. Sure there is RealPlay, & a few other minor ones. However, the others are still having as many problems as TiVo, & TiVo has a installed customer base larger then any other stand alone DVR company. (Other than of course the Cable/sat companies)

So yes, I agree, TiVo isn't perfect, TiVo has issues & has problems. But do you really have anything better?

If there is something better, tell us all, so we can switch!

TGC

[briankasper]

Complain all you want.... but TiVo is still better then anything Cable/Sat has to offer.

You really want to change things. Write your congressmen/Senators/FCC/FTA and make complaints about how cable/sat is doing buisness.

Force deregulation on cable companies. Prevent them from even offering cable/sat box's. There was a time when you had to use the phone the phone company provided (Land lines). Now they can't even sell you a phone. Only the service, & look at the number of fantastic land line phones available.

One other problem. Great Home electronic companies such as sony, panasonic, pioneer, lg, (the list goes on) are to scared to invest money in DVR's. Mainly because of the control the Cable/Sat companies have, as well as the control from major networks & studios.

The problem isn't with TiVo, it's with the Networks, Cable/Sat companies & Studios.
TiVo is doing the best they can with keeping up with all of the demands that those corporations & we as consumers are putting on them.

IMHO they (TiVo) are doing the best they can with what they have to work with & with the limited resources they have as well. TiVo, doesn't have the BILLIONS of dollars that Sony or other CE corporations have.

Think about this. TiVo's only compition in the DVR market is other Cable/Sat companies. There aren't any real competitors for TiVo. Sure there is RealPlay, & a few other minor ones. However, the others are still having as many problems as TiVo, & TiVo has a installed customer base larger then any other stand alone DVR company. (Other than of course the Cable/sat companies)

So yes, I agree, TiVo isn't perfect, TiVo has issues & has problems. But do you really have anything better?

If there is something better, tell us all, so we can switch!

TGC

Please, understand -- I agree 100% wholeheartedly that TiVo is better than anything else out there. I've had a lifetime TiVo subscription since my wife and asked for and received our S1 TiVo as our only Christmas gift something like 7 years ago. I upgraded our S1 myself with two 120GB hard drives to increase our recording capacity. I spent the early-adopter price of $800 on our S3 so I could spend an additional $200 to transfer our lifetime subscription to it.

None of that, however, is relevant to a discussion of shortcomings in TiVo's software. It's reasonable for customers to complain if they have seen the usability of their S3s degraded by software pushed onto their systems.

Saying "If there is something better, tell us all, so we can switch!" is counterproductive to a discussion of apparent bugs or limitations in the TiVo software.

Regardless of the quality (or lack thereof) of cable-company DVRs, consumers who have purchased a TiVo -- who have given TiVo, Inc. their hard-earned dollars -- have a right to air their grievances.

Yes, the cable/satellite companies and the FCC are largely to blame for the sad state of television-content affairs in the USA right now -- but that's a separate issue from any mistakes TiVo might have made in the distribution of their software. Even great companies make mistakes, and it's proper to call them on it if they do.

-B

[Lenarro]

But I just saw a Dish Network commercial that says their box is "better than Tivo" so they must be, right? :)

[pilotbob]

But I just saw a Dish Network commercial that says their box is "better than Tivo" so they must be, right? :)

You'll notice in advertising that Number 2 or lower always compare themselves to number 1... which tells you who number one is!

[pl1]

I spent the early-adopter price of $800 on our S3 so I could spend an additional $300 to transfer our lifetime subscription to it.Minor nit. The lifetime xfr was (is still) $199.

[briankasper]

Minor nit. The lifetime xfr was (is still) $199.

Doh!

You're absolutely correct. Somehow I'd misremembered the cost. I'll edit my post to correct the number.

-B

[nrc]

the problem is that they know that the only alternative to their product is even worse. there is no incentive for them to improve, and in fact a large incentive for them to drop software and customer service quality even further. offering anything more than a marginal value increase over the competition is 'wasted' money.

TiVo has lost subscribers the last two quarters. They have every reason to work hard to maintain and improve customer service and software quality.

Besides the problem of dealing with a wide spectrum of cable infrastructures they also have to prioritize their efforts according to the impact on their customers, their costs, and their revenues. As much as the OP may wish to couch these things in terms normally reserved for discussing fundamental human rights, most of these items don't have a tremendous impact and can be dealt with as part of the normal release cycle, or may not even justify the effort. For the one problem that really had a serious impact (SciAtl cards) they pushed out fixes almost immediately.

[TexasGrillChef]

Please, understand -- I agree 100% wholeheartedly that TiVo is better than anything else out there. I've had a lifetime TiVo subscription since my wife and asked for and received our S1 TiVo as our only Christmas gift something like 7 years ago. I upgraded our S1 myself with two 120GB hard drives to increase our recording capacity. I spent the early-adopter price of $800 on our S3 so I could spend an additional $200 to transfer our lifetime subscription to it.

None of that, however, is relevant to a discussion of shortcomings in TiVo's software. It's reasonable for customers to complain if they have seen the usability of their S3s degraded by software pushed onto their systems.

Saying "If there is something better, tell us all, so we can switch!" is counterproductive to a discussion of apparent bugs or limitations in the TiVo software.

Regardless of the quality (or lack thereof) of cable-company DVRs, consumers who have purchased a TiVo -- who have given TiVo, Inc. their hard-earned dollars -- have a right to air their grievances.

Yes, the cable/satellite companies and the FCC are largely to blame for the sad state of television-content affairs in the USA right now -- but that's a separate issue from any mistakes TiVo might have made in the distribution of their software. Even great companies make mistakes, and it's proper to call them on it if they do.

-B

I agree with you 100% as well. Users of any product have a right to complain when their "device" (Whatever it maybe) does not work as expected. We also have a right to make suggestions & request feature enhancements & upgrades as well.

My bad for not communicating my thoughts precisely. For that I apologize.

However, I do think it is fair to request people understand who is to blame for certain issues & to blame those people accordingly.

Example....

SDV isn't TiVo's fault. When TiVo was designing the S3 & HD units, SDV was not widely implemented. SDV and its widespread use is something that is still in speculation. Certain areas are using it, other areas are not. It isn't fair to blame TiVo for something that isn't their fault. Lack of support currently for SDV isn't TiVo's fault. Should TiVo work on the issue? Should TiVo try to find a resolution to allow current TiVo's to work with SDV. The answer to that question is YES, of course they should. But should they be blamed for SDV or the fact that they currently lack a solution.NO. Development of a fix for SDV with TiVo's isn't something that can be fixed literly overnight. Research & Developement as well as testing of the fix is something that takes time. Sometimes even months.

Yes you are absolutely right. When there are issues in software or even hardware a company should be notified of the issue & that company should make every REASONABLE effort to resolve the problem. However, expecting a "Quick" fix in all issues is UNREALISTIC. True somethings can be fixed overnight. Other issues can't. Example... SDV, Pixelation.

My point that I was trying to make then & trying to make now is that one should complain, place blame where it is due. I have seen many people in this forum blame TiVo for something that in the end may or may not be TiVo's fault & in some cases is deffinately not TiVo's fault.

TGC

[TexasGrillChef]

But I just saw a Dish Network commercial that says their box is "better than Tivo" so they must be, right? :)

I just "love" commericals that claim their product is better then anothers product.

First question that always pops into my head is.... HOW? WHY?

TGC

[btwyx]

I just "love" commericals that claim their product is better then anothers product.

First question that always pops into my head is.... HOW? WHY?What it does for me is tell you who you should look at instead. As mentioned they only make that claim about the #1 product, so that's a good place to start looking.

[briankasper]

I agree with you 100% as well. Users of any product have a right to complain when their "device" (Whatever it maybe) does not work as expected. We also have a right to make suggestions & request feature enhancements & upgrades as well.

My bad for not communicating my thoughts precisely. For that I apologize.

However, I do think it is fair to request people understand who is to blame for certain issues & to blame those people accordingly.

Example....

SDV isn't TiVo's fault. When TiVo was designing the S3 & HD units, SDV was not widely implemented. SDV and its widespread use is something that is still in speculation. Certain areas are using it, other areas are not. It isn't fair to blame TiVo for something that isn't their fault. Lack of support currently for SDV isn't TiVo's fault. Should TiVo work on the issue? Should TiVo try to find a resolution to allow current TiVo's to work with SDV. The answer to that question is YES, of course they should. But should they be blamed for SDV or the fact that they currently lack a solution.NO. Development of a fix for SDV with TiVo's isn't something that can be fixed literly overnight. Research & Developement as well as testing of the fix is something that takes time. Sometimes even months.

Yes you are absolutely right. When there are issues in software or even hardware a company should be notified of the issue & that company should make every REASONABLE effort to resolve the problem. However, expecting a "Quick" fix in all issues is UNREALISTIC. True somethings can be fixed overnight. Other issues can't. Example... SDV, Pixelation.

My point that I was trying to make then & trying to make now is that one should complain, place blame where it is due. I have seen many people in this forum blame TiVo for something that in the end may or may not be TiVo's fault & in some cases is deffinately not TiVo's fault.

TGC

I couldn't agree more -- as a friend of mine is fond of saying, "we're in violent agreement". Folks shouldn't blame TiVo for things that aren't their fault (your example of SDV is a good one), and TiVo should respond reasonably and expeditiously to things that are their fault.

The difficult bit, since we're all obviously major TiVo fans because we're having this conversation on tivocommunity.com, is controlling our passions when problems do arise, not leaping to conclusions, and apportioning blame for the problems appropriately.

-B

[beerkensp]

I do feel for Tivo though. I fing it really frustrating to just have to talk to my cable provider for a couple of minutes (after an hour hold time ofcouse).

Now they have to somehow persuade all cable companies to give them assess to SDV even though the cable companies would prefer you to rent their box.