I am a little disappointed....

[andrew_ackerman]

I recently upgraded to a TiVo HD and I'm completely satisfied with the TiVo itself but I feel like I got a little shafted on the service price.

I called my cable company (Time Warner NYC) before buying the TiVo HD to make sure they had the M-cards ready. They said mid-sept so I buy the TiVo in mid-sept. The TiVo HD comes, I call Time Warner and suddenly they have never heard of an M-card, are never ever going to get one, etc. I have them look over my account and they see I called and that they promised me an M-card by mid-sept. Then they start to tap dance about how the M-card is for their cable boxes only, won't fit a TiVo, etc., etc. and I need to buy (and pay for) to S-cards for the same functionality. B/c no one there knows or admits to knowing anything about cable cards and since no one ever calls me back, this goes on for several weeks.

I call TiVo support to see if they know anything about when/if Time Warner is getting / has M-cards. They do their best but at the end of the day, can't help. No problem - I'm mad at Time Warner but not TiVo.

Finally I give in and agree to buy and pay for 2 S-cards. The next available install date is in 3 weeks(!) Time Warner must have 1 guy for all of Manhattan - just another way they want to discourage competition by making it hard on anyone who doesn't want their cable box. What can I do? I take it. Still, I'm mad at Time Warner but not TiVo.

The guy shows up (with an M-card after all that! And magically it fits my TiVo!) and after 3 hours gives up and comes back the next morning to finish the job. (Actually, he wasn't a bad guy - I'm still mad at Time Warner but not at him.) Finally, I have a working TiVo HD.

Now here's where TiVo lets me down:

(Sorry about the delay in getting to the point but the background is necessary. I throw the rant at Time Warner in for free.)

When I bought the TiVo, I didn't have time to think about the pricing plan I wanted but since I was told I could switch any time within 30 days, I told them to just put me month to month and I'd figure it out later.

But with the run-around Time Warner gave me, by the time my TiVo HD was actually working I was well over 30 days. I had hoped that TiVo would be a little flexible on this, especially since they have a record of my call to them about Time Warner's giving me a hard time. Bear in mind that I was *not* asking to get out of paying for the 2+ months my TiVo HD was useless to me. All I want is to get the one-year prepay plan and I'm willing to have it start right now, not back-date it to when I bought the TiVo. But TiVo support wouldn't let me. They said I'd have to cancel the first plan and pay the penaltly (equal to the remaining 9+ months of service) if I wanted to switch. One rep suggested that Billing might be able to manually waive the penalty since I was signing right back up again for the 1 year pre-paid plan but Billing claimed that was not possible.

To make matters worse, the service prices went down since I purchased the TiVo so instead of $12/month, I'm paying $16. Now I had not been asking for the now lower 1 year pre-paid plan - I was willing to pay the prior price - but it would have been nice if at least TiVo were willing to adjust the monthly rate as a 'we'll meet you halfway' kind of compromise. No luck.

Strictly speaking, TiVo is completely in the right here. They don't owe me anything - the delay was all caused by Time Warner and theoretically I could have switched plans in the first 30 days even though my TiVo was still nothing more than a pretty plastic brick. But TiVo tries to put itself out as a friendlier, higher end alternative to the standard cable service and it is facing an uphill battle against quasi-monopolist cable companies that are doing their best to undermine them.

I had to work much harder (not to mention pay much more) to get my TiVo to work than I would have had to had I just given in and taken the cable DVR. I think it would have been nicer (and smarter) for TiVo to recognize this and be willing to do what they could to make me feel like they appreciated the extra effort.

[scandia101]

It was usable the day you brought it home even if it was a limited use. The Tivo HD can be used with analog cable and OTA signals, so I don't know why you think it was just a brick.

[bicker]

But TiVo tries to put itself out as a friendlier, higher end alternative to the standard cable service and it is facing an uphill battle against quasi-monopolist cable companies that are doing their best to undermine them.Which could conceivably justify anything they do to foster their revenues. After all, conceptually, based on your characterization, they're losing a lot of money fighting the good fight while you're just paying a little bit more than you wouldn't have otherwise and getting precisely what they promised.

As it is, I don't think either perspective (the one you put forward or the one I did above) is correct. Rather, go back to basic principles. You crystallized it when you said, "TiVo is completely in the right here." That's all that matters. You should focus on that, and don't let yourself trick yourself into thinking that your desires should trump what's objectively "right".

[chrispitude]

I think it's still not customer-friendly. Tivo can win the righteous battle and lose the war.

- Chris

[ZeoTiVo]

I think it's still not customer-friendly. Tivo can win the righteous battle and lose the war.

- Chris

yes - this goes to the fact that the billing system does not let CSRs stop one plan to start another. Surely TiVo could look at these and see that in most cases a switch in plans that would extend the calendar date of committment is most likely a win for both TiVo since they book a sub for a longer time frame and the customer since they are instigating the change for some benefit to them.

TiVo needs to get a better policy of switching plans in place.

[bicker]

I think it's still not customer-friendly.Agreed. Customer-friendliness, of course, has a cost, and every company needs to decide how much they can afford to spend in that direction, and also need to be very strategic with regard to which aspects of customer-friendliness they spend their limited resources on. Many aspects cost far more than they'll ever pay back in terms of good will; just like everything else in business, every bit of cost associated with customer satisfaction needs to be analyzed from a long-term cost-benefit perspective, and those that don't have a reasonable change of providing a significant, positive return, put aside in favor of those that do.

Tivo can win the righteous battle and lose the war.They can do as you would advocate and still "lose the war" -- indeed, doing as you advocate could cause them to more readily "lose the war".

[ZeoTiVo]

need to be very strategic with regard to which aspects of customer-friendliness they spend their limited resources on. Many aspects cost far more than they'll ever pay back in terms of good will;
the thing is, in this case I am seeing many requests that most likely work out to very little cost to TiVo to actually being better for TiVo, The classic case here is the one year free service on a life transfer. Why in the world would TiVo not be happy to warn the customer once, " You still have x months left of free service, you srue you want to change that?" and then happily switch out the free service for a paid service.

in other cases say someone did a one year month to month plan, still not sure they wnated to commit. Well why not let them change that 6 months in to a 2 or 3 year plan? sure it is a little less money for the remaining one year months but then they get the longer comittment at a rate that TiVo would have agreed to at the begining anyhow for longer service.

why not prorate a prepaid plan as well, if it means the customer has extended the calendar date. That way we do not have to amrk some date on the calendar and hope call volume is low at that time. Just let the customer get a new plan fired up without the hassle of hitting the end of the old plan on the nose. Where is the monetary loss of significnace in that?

the only two cases I see as issues are a TiVo with service plan, that in part the monthly payment pays for hardware. In that case charge the customer the remaining hardware fee and let them move on to a longer contract.

then the issue of moving from a longer plan to a shorter one.. that can be the line in the sand - the switch must result in a calendar date beyond the one the user already committed to. I think any monetary issues would be very minor and only in certain cases and the customer good will very significant.

[steve614]

I recently upgraded to a TiVo HD and I'm completely satisfied with the TiVo itself but I feel like I got a little shafted on the service price.

I called my cable company (Time Warner NYC) before buying the TiVo HD to make sure they had the M-cards ready. They said mid-sept so I buy the TiVo in mid-sept. The TiVo HD comes, I call Time Warner and suddenly they have never heard of an M-card, are never ever going to get one, etc. I have them look over my account and they see I called and that they promised me an M-card by mid-sept. Then they start to tap dance about how the M-card is for their cable boxes only, won't fit a TiVo, etc., etc. and I need to buy (and pay for) to S-cards for the same functionality. B/c no one there knows or admits to knowing anything about cable cards and since no one ever calls me back, this goes on for several weeks.

I call TiVo support to see if they know anything about when/if Time Warner is getting / has M-cards. They do their best but at the end of the day, can't help. No problem - I'm mad at Time Warner but not TiVo.

Finally I give in and agree to buy and pay for 2 S-cards. The next available install date is in 3 weeks(!) Time Warner must have 1 guy for all of Manhattan - just another way they want to discourage competition by making it hard on anyone who doesn't want their cable box. What can I do? I take it. Still, I'm mad at Time Warner but not TiVo.

The guy shows up (with an M-card after all that! And magically it fits my TiVo!) and after 3 hours gives up and comes back the next morning to finish the job. (Actually, he wasn't a bad guy - I'm still mad at Time Warner but not at him.) Finally, I have a working TiVo HD.

Now here's where TiVo lets me down:

(Sorry about the delay in getting to the point but the background is necessary. I throw the rant at Time Warner in for free.)

When I bought the TiVo, I didn't have time to think about the pricing plan I wanted but since I was told I could switch any time within 30 days, I told them to just put me month to month and I'd figure it out later.

But with the run-around Time Warner gave me, by the time my TiVo HD was actually working I was well over 30 days. I had hoped that TiVo would be a little flexible on this, especially since they have a record of my call to them about Time Warner's giving me a hard time. Bear in mind that I was *not* asking to get out of paying for the 2+ months my TiVo HD was useless to me. All I want is to get the one-year prepay plan and I'm willing to have it start right now, not back-date it to when I bought the TiVo. But TiVo support wouldn't let me. They said I'd have to cancel the first plan and pay the penaltly (equal to the remaining 9+ months of service) if I wanted to switch. One rep suggested that Billing might be able to manually waive the penalty since I was signing right back up again for the 1 year pre-paid plan but Billing claimed that was not possible.

To make matters worse, the service prices went down since I purchased the TiVo so instead of $12/month, I'm paying $16. Now I had not been asking for the now lower 1 year pre-paid plan - I was willing to pay the prior price - but it would have been nice if at least TiVo were willing to adjust the monthly rate as a 'we'll meet you halfway' kind of compromise. No luck.

Strictly speaking, TiVo is completely in the right here. They don't owe me anything - the delay was all caused by Time Warner and theoretically I could have switched plans in the first 30 days even though my TiVo was still nothing more than a pretty plastic brick. But TiVo tries to put itself out as a friendlier, higher end alternative to the standard cable service and it is facing an uphill battle against quasi-monopolist cable companies that are doing their best to undermine them.

I had to work much harder (not to mention pay much more) to get my TiVo to work than I would have had to had I just given in and taken the cable DVR. I think it would have been nicer (and smarter) for TiVo to recognize this and be willing to do what they could to make me feel like they appreciated the extra effort.

Take what you've written here, make 2 copies, and send via snail mail to the head honchos of Tivo and TW.
That will do far more good than posting it here.
Just my 2 cents.:)

[bicker]

the thing is, in this case I am seeing many requests that most likely work out to very little cost to TiVo to actually being better for TiVoYou sound like some of my recent product managers. "That can't take you that long to implement." However, they really don't know, and invariably their failure in understanding stems from not understanding the reality of what it takes to accomplish all aspects of any change -- mostly regression testing.

Every single action must justify itself, not only as being a "good" thing, but being a better use of resources as compared to every other possible use for those resources.

The classic case here is the one year free service on a life transfer. Why in the world would TiVo not be happy to warn the customer once, " You still have x months left of free service, you srue you want to change that?" and then happily switch out the free service for a paid service. I think you're looking at that one from a one-sided perspective. Financially, of course it is better for TiVo to do as they're doing, and perhaps so much better even considering whatever they lose from doing it, including having to fix it for customers that are unhappy. Beyond that, we have no idea how much work would be involved in changing that now. And no, it is not reasonable to think that someone in QA actually thought up that scenario and therefore everyone made a deliberate decision to leave it this way rather than change it back then. That's again, one-sided perspective, terribly underestimating the cost of change.

Also, think about it this way: Right now you're reading this forum. Why not -- right now -- drop your mouse and go to the store and get another roll of toilet paper (or whatever you happen to be low on in your house right now). You know you'll eventually need it, and it is better to be sure not to run out. You'll reply that you're busy right now doing what you planned on doing with this time, and won't disrupt that even though something else is also important. It is only my (artificial) one-sided perspective that says that getting that toilet paper now is what you should be doing instead of participating on this thread.

[ZeoTiVo]

You sound like some of my recent product managers. "That can't take you that long to implement." However, they really don't know, and invariably their failure in understanding stems from not understanding the reality of what it takes to accomplish all aspects of any change -- mostly regression testing.

Every single action must justify itself, not only as being a "good" thing, but being a better use of resources as compared to every other possible use for those resources..

well duh, of course they would have to plan for it, put resources on the project management of it and if the business processes are well designed then there should be several toll gates where the decision to keep moving forward is based on what is the best use of resources and how high a priority this is versus other projects or issues in the pipeline.

still, there is a good customer experience oppurtunity here to change a current policy that is restrictive for no real good reason in itself. My point is that it is well worth looking at what it would take to change the systems/processes to allow for customer changes in plans and run such a project up against a DMAIC with toll gates.

[bicker]

And in the end, those processes could result in these things you want done simply not making the grade. How can you tell the difference between them not considering your ideas and simply considering them but dismissing them? :confused:

[Soapm]

I can agree, once Tivo gets you locked in (past 30 days) they seem to treat you differently when you call. To get a better price while still in my 30 days I had to cancel my service then reactive my Tivo via the web. Even the so called retension person would not match the price from the web though they were very nice and made all kinds of offers. When these new prices came out I called to get a lower monthly rate. They were not so nice this time and didn't even think about an offer.

[ZeoTiVo]

And in the end, those processes could result in these things you want done simply not making the grade. How can you tell the difference between them not considering your ideas and simply considering them but dismissing them? :confused:

well since TiVo is not letting non-employees sit in on their toll gate and budget/priority meetings, I have no idea what they have or have not considered on this. I will assume you are in the same boat and the whole debate on this specific point academic at best.

I still think they would do well to let people change out contracts when it has little impact on TiVo long term but sure that will entail a good amount of work on the back office systems and is not something they would turn on quickly and maybe they are in the middle of such a project right now for al lwe know or else canned the project a while back for all we know or else are reading this now and saying, hey maybe we should take a look at that for all we know.

[heidismiles]

I just wanted to comment that I had a very similar scenario with Time Warner here in California when I got my TiVo a few months ago. I told the guy I needed two cable cards, and he brought two. Of course, one of them was broken, and the guy didn't bring any extras. So I had to do the appointment dance for a few more weeks until everything was working. I also had the same experience with the guy "giving up" after a few hours and leaving. Why on Earth don't they just bring a few extra cards, every time?

The good news, for me, was that they didn't charge me for the visits (originally, I told them I was switching to TiVo because their DVR was crap; and later, I wasn't about to pay for the repeated visits that were their fault alone.) They also didn't charge me for the cable cards, since I was getting rid of my cable boxes. You might want to ask them why they're charging you for "extra" cable cards when you don't have a cable box.

[JYoung]

They also didn't charge me for the cable cards, since I was getting rid of my cable boxes. You might want to ask them why they're charging you for "extra" cable cards when you don't have a cable box.

Uuuhhhh, because in most municipalities, Cablecards are rented to the customer at a low monthly fee.

In Orange County, it appears to be $1.75 per card per month for most of the county (http://www.timewarnerla.com/pricingGuides/).

[DaveBogart]

I had to work much harder (not to mention pay much more) to get my TiVo to work than I would have had to had I just given in and taken the cable DVR.You've convinced me. I'll not buy another TiVo. Why, when the cable box does what I require and doesn't come with the hassles that TiVos now seem to come with?

[CrispyCritter]

You've convinced me. I'll not buy another TiVo. Why, when the cable box does what I require and doesn't come with the hassles that TiVos now seem to come with?See, you're different from me. When a company unfairly bullies me or their other customers, I will actively resist and not give into the bullying. The hassles are caused by the cable companies, for the the cable companies' benefit. I see no reason to reward them for that.

[andrew_ackerman]

Good news. Jim, from the TiVo Excutive Committee called me after reading this thread and took care of this within 2 minutes. He even charged me the new, lower pre-paid pricing, even though I was willing to pay the old pre-paid pricing that I would have had to pay had I switched on time. Very nice of him.

Thanks for all the comments. Some quick thoughts:

CrispyCritter - I'm with you. Time Warner pissed me off so much by dragging its feet that I'd hate to even look at their DVR and know that they had won, had worn me down. Not an entirely rational response, I admit....

bicker - I used to be a project manager myself and I used to hate hearing "how hard can it be?". That said, if Jim could fix this in 2 minutes then why couldn't the CSR or the supervisor I spoke to simply have passed me on up to Jim at that time?

scandia101 - This Tivo was replacing an old Series 1 I have so I already could get analog signal. The new TiVo w/o cable card could only record one shoe and not even any of the premium stations so at that time was even less functional than the old Series 1!

[bicker]

How many other people in your same situation, did not have this addressed for them? One by one, a top-level exec can make things happen, sure; they're trusted by the company in a way that companies will no longer trust its telephone CSRs, due to the risk that that represents.

How many consumers are going to get such attention from someone from the executive committee?