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garbec
11-14-2007, 05:41 PM
Oh yee mighty Big Wigs at DirecTV,

As a small offering of goodwill for us loyal early adopters, please authorize all HR-10s to receive OTA forever after you abandon us.

Amen

RandCfilm
11-15-2007, 10:09 AM
Oh yee mighty Big Wigs at DirecTV,

As a small offering of goodwill for us loyal early adopters, please authorize all HR-10s to receive OTA forever after you abandon us.

AmenThe goodwill you are asking for is already here. Remove the sat feed, remove your access card and tune to your favorite local OTA channel and you will be able to receive the programming. As will be the case if/when there is no more mpeg2 sat feed to receive.

whitepelican
11-15-2007, 11:14 AM
The goodwill you are asking for is already here. Remove the sat feed, remove your access card and tune to your favorite local OTA channel and you will be able to receive the programming. As will be the case if/when there is no more mpeg2 sat feed to receive.

Of course, in your scenario you won't get any guide data for the OTA channels, or any other channels for that matter. And there's no saying that future software versions have to continue to support OTA (though I'm sure they will). So I suppose it is still fair to ask a small prayer of our DirecTV overlords requesting this feature to continue to work for many years.

RandCfilm
11-15-2007, 11:38 AM
Of course, in your scenario you won't get any guide data for the OTA channels, or any other channels for that matter. And there's no saying that future software versions have to continue to support OTA (though I'm sure they will). So I suppose it is still fair to ask a small prayer of our DirecTV overlords requesting this feature to continue to work for many years.This would be what garbec would have available after the HR10 was shut down. I would hope that DirecTV continues to provide OTA data even after the HR10 shut down or (IIRC) 2010 TiVo support contract expires.

garbec
11-15-2007, 12:20 PM
Actually, I am pleased.

Just to clarify, when I disconnect sat feeds, and call DirectV and disable my HR-10 (stop paying the $5 extra receiver charge):
1) The HR 10 will still tune HD OTA
2) Guide data will disapear
3) I can still do manual (time, channel) recordings of HD content

If so, my prayer is answered. I previously belived that the HR-10 would not tune or record OTA without a subscription ($5 per month). But now you are saying that the $5 is only for guide data.

IMA_TV_ADDICT
11-15-2007, 12:34 PM
It sounds like you've already decided to keep DirecTV and to keep your HR10 connected to your system. If so, why cancel the service? The $5 a month not only buys you the guide data for OTA HD, it also buys you a great SD DVR with a big hard drive. That's a no-brainer to me.

garbec
11-15-2007, 12:51 PM
I already have a HR20 & HR10 hooked to the same TV. Yes I plan to stay with DirecTV. I already use the HR-10 for the OTA stuff (LENO, NFL, Etc). I use the HR20 for all new HD channels.

I do not watch SD. It is against my religion. I would prefer a HD only package.

When Directv moves all HD to MPEG-4, then my HR-10 will only be good for OTA. I see your point about $5 for guide data, but I'm still wavering.

jimb726
11-15-2007, 01:24 PM
I already have a HR20 & HR10 hooked to the same TV. Yes I plan to stay with DirecTV. I already use the HR-10 for the OTA stuff (LENO, NFL, Etc). I use the HR20 for all new HD channels.

I do not watch SD. It is against my religion. I would prefer a HD only package.

When Directv moves all HD to MPEG-4, then my HR-10 will only be good for OTA. I see your point about $5 for guide data, but I'm still wavering.

Are you looking for a second OTA? Or just the TiVo interface? WHy not use the OTA on the HR20?

garbec
11-15-2007, 02:43 PM
HR-10 (30 hours HD) + HR-20 (30 hours HD) = 60 hours HD

HR-20 is better at MPEG-4, leaves HR-10 for everything else.

I do prefer the TIVO interface, but due to more channels on the HR-20, I use the HR-20 more.

Note:I love TIVO suggestions. Since I got the HR20, I try to leave the HR10 fairly open so that it auto-records as much HD as possible. It bugs me that I have no way of auto-recording MPEG-4. I miss that feature more than any other on the HR10.

RandCfilm
11-15-2007, 03:24 PM
Actually, I am pleased.

Just to clarify, when I disconnect sat feeds, and call DirectV and disable my HR-10 (stop paying the $5 extra receiver charge):
1) The HR 10 will still tune HD OTA
2) Guide data will disapear
3) I can still do manual (time, channel) recordings of HD content

If so, my prayer is answered. I previously belived that the HR-10 would not tune or record OTA without a subscription ($5 per month). But now you are saying that the $5 is only for guide data.Unfortunately you will not be able to record without subscription just tune to the channel.

garbec
11-15-2007, 04:00 PM
Unfortunately you will not be able to record without subscription just tune to the channel.

Then I stick by my origional post, we still need the final breath authorization!

DirecTV, please show us some love!

TonyD79
11-15-2007, 04:04 PM
The HR10 isn't going anywhere for quite a while. Yes it will lose satellite HD when they turn off the MPEG2 channels but it is not being abandoned for a long, long time (DirecTV still supports even Ultimate TV!). If you like it enough, pay the $5 and use it. If that is not worth it, then dump it.

TyroneShoes
11-16-2007, 07:24 PM
...HR-20 is better at MPEG-4...Much better, according to some reports :D

But doesn't "Tivo service" imply more than the ability to record and play back those recordings, even if they are manual recordings (essentially making it a digital VCR or timeslot recorder)?

What about trick play capability, such as pause and jump back for live content?

I have an unsubbed series 1 at work for recording SD shows that I watch during my lunch hour. It still has trick play, but the clock has drifted many hours, requiring a conversion sheet (to record a show at 8 PM I have to enter 3:25 PM, for instance). If this clock drift happens to unserviced HR10s, not only will it become a digital OTA VCR, but B2B recordings on different channels or on dual tuners will start to conflict, making programming a nightmare for dual tuners and limiting it's usefulness even more.

rminsk
04-08-2008, 08:24 PM
Then I stick by my origional post, we still need the final breath authorization!

DirecTV, please show us some love!Without a satellite connection there is no guide data. The HR10-250 would just be a fancy VCR with no guide data.

parzec
04-08-2008, 09:17 PM
Instead of trashing all of these HR10s out there (which is wasteful and not very environmental) DirecTV should give Tivo the right to service these devices after the DirecTV contract expires. Perhaps Tivo could offer $5 Tivo subs and be in charge of providing guide data and development for the HR10. The HR10 still has phone ports for data, and the theoretical ability to use USB networking, so there are avenues for Tivo to provide guide data.

This is technologically possible and it seems like it wouldn't be all that challenging for the programmers to port over exisiting modules of code from the other platforms. Besides, it would give the Tivo programmers something to do before 2010 instead of the big nothing we have seen from them so far.

chel_in_il
04-08-2008, 09:31 PM
I just had DirecTV activate an HR10 for me today. (I bought two from a stereo installer guy.) I already have two Phillips DirecTivos (and one POS Directv SD DVR... I don't use it.) Of course, they wanted to upgrade me to the new HD DVR... and I love my Tivo interface. I didn't realize it would record OTA HD until I came here - oh my, too awesome. (I don't watch local TV as I don't have local channels on my subscription (tree in the way), I hate switching between antenna and satellite, and I hate not having Tivo functionality.) Spoiled.

Now I have it all (except HD on satellite - no biggie..) I only have an HD set in my bedroom and it's always recording Law and Order. Now I can record L&O on OTA.

If my 55" Magnavox big screen ever kicks the bucket, then I'll go all HD.

Michelle

cramer
04-08-2008, 11:38 PM
#3 will be a problem. Without a connection to the sat and an active, DVR enabled sub, the DVR service will not be enabled -- no recording for you.

As for Tivo supporting them as non-DTV units... Not. Going. To. Happen. They didn't want to foot the phone time expense to push a DST update to S1 SA's. W.t.h. makes you think they'll want to do it for HR10? And for less than a S1 sub. Yes, you can use the serial port or plug a usb network dongle on it (assuming DTV allows the usb ports to be activated), but almost nobody does.

parzec
04-11-2008, 09:12 AM
#3 will be a problem. Without a connection to the sat and an active, DVR enabled sub, the DVR service will not be enabled -- no recording for you.

As for Tivo supporting them as non-DTV units... Not. Going. To. Happen. They didn't want to foot the phone time expense to push a DST update to S1 SA's. W.t.h. makes you think they'll want to do it for HR10? And for less than a S1 sub. Yes, you can use the serial port or plug a usb network dongle on it (assuming DTV allows the usb ports to be activated), but almost nobody does.


I definitely don't think it will happen either, just pointing that it is technically possible. The argument that they could provide service for less is based on the fact that these would be unsubsidized units so there are no hardware costs to recoup, and also the limited functionality to OTA only reception. Still, just theoretical talk. Among all the other reasons, DTV would never go for it.

jmw86069
04-14-2008, 10:29 PM
I have three questions... and thanks 100 times in advance for any help whatsoever. I'd even enjoy a good flame. I'm, uh, retardent. :-)

I think we should in theory be well within our rights to use the equipment we own to do whatever it is that we want to do. I don't recognize that recording a show to play back for oneself is outside legal bounds, even though maybe it is according to DTV contact. The music industry, nasty and protective as it is, still reluctantly allows "fair use" and I think it would apply here as well. It isn't different than a VCR conceptually, and I don't think *even with a contract* it would hold legally. This is what I tell my conscience, especially since I'm willing to pay *fair price* for PVR-only. But I digress...

I have been ready to cancel DTV for a few months now, but a not brave enough to do it and risk not being able to use my TiVo. My wife and I watch well more than half our TV off the internet (all networks have most shows available live.) Can't record those shows, but you don't need to. I'm so ready to "stick it to the man" and cut out all type of TV bill altogether, watching from the Net and OTA. But alas, I can't use my TiVo without paying $39.95/month for DTV's cheapest plan (plus tax, plus DVR fee.)

1) So... if I unplug the satellite lines, remove the access card (and/or replace it with an old credit card or another unauthorized access card from somewhere else) --- will the TiVo work for OTA??

It's been rebooting frequently, every couple of days (the Raleigh-Durham OTA issue posted here too), so I'm worried when it reboots it'll complain about not hearing from the mothership during power-up and won't let me record anymore. Does anyone know if that's going to happen?

I called DTV and asked for a PVR-only plan that others alluded to, and they gave me absolutely no options other than $39.95/month.

2) Does anyone know if there exists a $5/month or $10/month plan for PVR-only?

(edit: oh yeah forgot question #3...)

3) WTF?

Thanks again for the help!

--James

dishrich
04-15-2008, 09:29 AM
jmw86069 - you seem to be missing the important point; the HD Tivo is a DIRECTV box FIRST, with Tivo features added. Because of this, D* is NOT obligated to provide you OTA only DVR service, which is, in fact, what they would be doing, when you pull it off your account.
And truthfully, you're in better shape with the HD Tivo than you are with the newer D* HD boxes from the past couple years; on those boxes, when you disconnect them from the account, ALL OTA capability is disabled, so you can't even use them for a plain OTA digital receiver.

Bottom line, as we have already told you - if you disco the box from your account, you WILL have a working OTA tuner, but NO way to record anything OTA, EVEN manually. (you would be able to use 30 min pause, if that floats your boat) There is NO way to make it record w/out a D* sub, period - because it IS a D* box, NOT a Tivo box.

RS4
04-15-2008, 09:45 AM
jmw86069 - you seem to be missing the important point; the HD Tivo is a DIRECTV box FIRST, with Tivo features added. Because of this, D* is NOT obligated to provide you OTA only DVR service, which is, in fact, what they would be doing, when you pull it off your account.
And truthfully, you're in better shape with the HD Tivo than you are with the newer D* HD boxes from the past couple years; on those boxes, when you disconnect them from the account, ALL OTA capability is disabled, so you can't even use them for a plain OTA digital receiver.

Bottom line, as we have already told you - if you disco the box from your account, you WILL have a working OTA tuner, but NO way to record anything OTA, EVEN manually. (you would be able to use 30 min pause, if that floats your boat) There is NO way to make it record w/out a D* sub, period - because it IS a D* box, NOT a Tivo box.

I believe he's saying that the only reason he would stay connected to D* is to keep the OTA working, so he's asking about the absolute minimum fee from D* to keep his HR10-250 going. I thought the minimum fee was $29.95. Since he has an HR10-250, and isn't interested in the HD channels, he shouldn't have to pay the 9.95 HD fee.

JMW, one other option is to purchase a Tivo HD (around $279). Tivo has a service that would update the Tivo HD. The monthly rates vary by the amount of time you think you would use the service, etc., but you'd probably be able to recover the charges that Direct would bill you for in less then a year and you'd own the Tivo HD also. The OTA receiver works better then the HR10-250 in my case. You could always sell the Tivo HD if you decided to use the internet exclusively. Also, the Tivo HD gets a lot of stuff from the internet, so you might enjoy that as well. Unlike Direct, you could try this out for up to 30 days, and send it back if you don't like ti.

dishrich
04-15-2008, 09:52 AM
I believe he's saying that the only reason he would stay connected to D* is to keep the OTA working, so he's asking about the absolute minimum fee from D* to keep his HR10-250 going.

And MY point is - D* is NOT interested in providing anyone with a "OTA only DVR plan", which is exactly what he was asking for here:


I called DTV and asked for a PVR-only plan that others alluded to, and they gave me absolutely no options other than $39.95/month.

2) Does anyone know if there exists a $5/month or $10/month plan for PVR-only?

D* wants some sort of sat prog subscription income from these people - a DVR only plan isn't that. And as you pointed out, the best he's going to get is the $30 FP. (& the $6 DVR fee added, of course)

parzec
04-15-2008, 10:05 AM
I have three questions... and thanks 100 times in advance for any help whatsoever. I'd even enjoy a good flame. I'm, uh, retardent. :-)

I think we should in theory be well within our rights to use the equipment we own to do whatever it is that we want to do. I don't recognize that recording a show to play back for oneself is outside legal bounds, even though maybe it is according to DTV contact. The music industry, nasty and protective as it is, still reluctantly allows "fair use" and I think it would apply here as well. It isn't different than a VCR conceptually, and I don't think *even with a contract* it would hold legally. This is what I tell my conscience, especially since I'm willing to pay *fair price* for PVR-only. But I digress...

I have been ready to cancel DTV for a few months now, but a not brave enough to do it and risk not being able to use my TiVo. My wife and I watch well more than half our TV off the internet (all networks have most shows available live.) Can't record those shows, but you don't need to. I'm so ready to "stick it to the man" and cut out all type of TV bill altogether, watching from the Net and OTA. But alas, I can't use my TiVo without paying $39.95/month for DTV's cheapest plan (plus tax, plus DVR fee.)

1) So... if I unplug the satellite lines, remove the access card (and/or replace it with an old credit card or another unauthorized access card from somewhere else) --- will the TiVo work for OTA??

It's been rebooting frequently, every couple of days (the Raleigh-Durham OTA issue posted here too), so I'm worried when it reboots it'll complain about not hearing from the mothership during power-up and won't let me record anymore. Does anyone know if that's going to happen?

I called DTV and asked for a PVR-only plan that others alluded to, and they gave me absolutely no options other than $39.95/month.

2) Does anyone know if there exists a $5/month or $10/month plan for PVR-only?

(edit: oh yeah forgot question #3...)

3) WTF?

Thanks again for the help!

--James


There is what I call a hidden "feature" that you touched upon and allows the HR10 to record OTA without DirecTV service and without hacking your unit. It involves swapping access cards and disconnecting the SAT feeds and is a real PIA, but in fact you can continue to record OTA. I won't repeat the specifics here because a simple search of this forum will explain everything.

jmw86069
04-15-2008, 09:46 PM
dishrich, I see your points, and I couldn't in theory "blame" D* for having whatever policies they want to have. If I don't like it, I can walk. I just don't think they're acting in good faith.

Everyone in the industry is now leasing boxes, including D* -- and we did pay a lot of jack for a box that because of their policy we cannot use without substantial limitation or cost. It's not just an act of goodwill (good faith actually) to offer an OTA plan, they'll still be making money they otherwise wouldn't make. I'm willing to pay fair price, just not $40/month. I suggest D* would see much benefits from offering such a plan. Behold:

Think how many people would keep or buy an otherwise crippled HD-DTiVo for the OTA recording. I see the business world like this -- the companies that embrace the desires of their customers (not coincidentally like TiVo itself) and who don't put up unnecessary walls to customer "creativity" end up with cult-like followings. An OTA-only plan would give D* a pretty good number of customers, maybe many of them who also have cable or another satellite service. That's free money for D*. Think how much marketing they allott to obtain/keep customers, and think about these customers requiring no marketing spend. Realistically, that ups their profit margin on these people with very little risk if any. Plus, a good number of OTA-only subscribers will eventually "up-sell" to a D* satellite plan at some point -- especially with D* were treating them well. I believe more people would up-sell than down-sell (going from D* down to OTA-only.) OTA isn't a friendly world... antennas, amplifiers, rotors, distance, etc.

I don't see the negative for them. I see that they can make whatever choices they want to make with their plans, I just don't think it shows D* acting in good faith to the customers who bought $1,000 boxes.

As it is, plenty of HD-DTiVo purchasers have growing resentment for D*, which will ultimately lead to a spiteful departure for me and people like me. I don't know how to "steal" OTA recording capability -- but if I did I'd be conscience-free in doing it (I mean only OTA btw.) It's just a freaking box with a harddrive. (But a beautiful UI!) haha

There's a limited time for D* or anybody to get any money out of them, why not do it? I'm meanwhile building a MythTV PC on the side, and soon will be running Orb, watching network TV (on the net), or downloading live from Netflix or a friendly torrent. I say D* better grab willing people that they don't have to market to and happily take their money. But don't be d*cks about it.

Fwiw I also heard that if I bought a SA HD TiVo I could add the HD DTiVo to that account, since TiVo's fee covers all machines in the household. Not sure the details, but it did come from a D* rep oddly enough.

silbakor
04-17-2008, 06:16 PM
I've got a question I haven't found an answer for in a quick search of the forums...

I have an old Sony T-60 that's been awesome forever, but just (finally) joined the HD era with a new TV.
I'm not sure if I want to shell out the $$ for the D* HD package, but would love to be able to record the local HD channels.

If I get a used 10-250 off eBay for cheap, can I replace the T60 with the 10-250 by just putting the T60 card into the 10-250, or do I still have to get D* to 'activate' the new box, even if I'm not changing my service?

Thanks!!!

dishrich
04-17-2008, 08:34 PM
Sorry, you'll still have to call D*, since the HD Tivo's have RID#'s - but you CAN put your card into the HD Tivo, so you won't get slapped with a 2 year commitment. But I will tell you, the last time I tried to do a card remarry for a client, they had to send me to the access card department - but they did do it without much hassle.

But, you may have some problems getting out of the $10 HD fee - the "official" D* policy is that ANY HD receiver activations of even legacy equipment get charged the fee; but others here have said they were able to avoid the fee on newly activated HD Tivos.

donmarrow
08-08-2008, 08:11 PM
So Dishrich - can you just give me the scoop on how to use my doorstop HR10. I moved and have no dish. I would think I could still pull up locals via the OTA. I'm debating on going with a new TV HD... I did search the forums for your hidden feature but that is pretty cryptic and did not turn up anything for me.

sloan
08-27-2008, 02:25 AM
So Dishrich - can you just give me the scoop on how to use my doorstop HR10. I moved and have no dish. I would think I could still pull up locals via the OTA. I'm debating on going with a new TV HD... I did search the forums for your hidden feature but that is pretty cryptic and did not turn up anything for me.

I would break-down and get the TivoHD. You can OTA most stuff, you can download alot of shows that aren't on OTA (for $1.99/each usually).
If you only like 1 or 2 shows not on OTA, this is a pretty good compromise.

As of this month, you can watch YouTube videos on your TivoHD.

I have a HR20 and a TivoHD. HR20 gets everything directv'ish with the new channels. TivoHD gets everything OTA.

If it weren't for ESPN-HD, I'd pull the directv plug.