good link to explain the digital TV coversion?

[javabird]

Can anyone recommend links to a good, practical user-friendly explanation of the analog-to-digital conversion? I've been trying to understand it and have a hard time getting through all the techno-babble.

The FCC page, frankly, is the worst.

(And it really wouldn't hurt if Tivo had something on the FAQ's page explaining how it will affect Tivo users.)

[ah30k]

Don't confuse OTA analog -> digital with Cable QAM analog -> digital.

[javabird]

Can you please explain?

[MickeS]

I think this one is pretty good: http://www.dtv.gov/whatisdtv.html is that the one you thought was "the worst"?

[lastdeadcat]

http://dtvfacts.com

is one site that does that. In some ways it over simplifies but it does explain the implications. It is sort of read once website because there are few updates. Check it about every month or so to see if anything new has been added.

[wmcbrine]

Cable users: No effect (yet).
Satellite users: No effect.
Over-the-air Antenna users: The digital stations are (almost all) on now. The analog stations are going away in 2009. Old analog-tuner TVs can pick up the new digital stations via a set-top-box. (The Tivo S3 or HD is one such box.)

That's it in a nutshell. I could add lots of details, but the above is what you really need to know.

[Einselen]

I can not say if this page is good or not, but I see the commercial on TV all the time.

http://www.dtvanswers.com

[Sbmocp]

Cable users: No effect (yet).
Satellite users: No effect.
Over-the-air Antenna users: The digital stations are (almost all) on now. The analog stations are going away in 2009. Old analog-tuner TVs can pick up the new digital stations via a set-top-box. (The Tivo S3 or HD is one such box.)

That's it in a nutshell. I could add lots of details, but the above is what you really need to know.

So after the cutoff date, I can continue with my current lo-def DirecTV service and won't lose programming? That's good to know...I have to replace a LOT of TVs. :D

[MickeS]

So after the cutoff date, I can continue with my current lo-def DirecTV service and won't lose programming? That's good to know...I have to replace a LOT of TVs. :D
Yes, ONLY those who get their signal from broadcast antennas will be affected by this directly.

[JJ]

Anybody
believe that cable operators will gladly bear the cost of converting local broadcast digital to analogue?

There is money to be made in converting customers to digital set top boxes and 'upgrading' them to new more profitable tiers. Even if they 'give away' the first box to each customer they will certainly make it up on renting additional boxes within the home. The free ride of additional outlets is probably over. It makes a lot of sense to convert to digital and gain network bandwidth while doing the analogue conversion at the consumers TV sets.

All this profit available, and the ability to place the blame on the government when customers complain. Priceless...

[classicsat]

The digital TV transition has nothing really to do with HD, its about shutting down analog and moving frequencies around to they can sell some off. HD is something broadcasters can choose to use their digital broadcast for.

When whatever feed you get shuts off their analog, you will get (or have to get, if the case may be) a digital tuner, which will have outputs to support even the old DuMont (RF modulator perhaps required), and downscale and HD for display on and SD set..

If you have digital TV of any sort now (digital cable, IPTV, satellite), you are there already.

[tomm1079]

ok since i havnt paid attention to this how will it affect the series 2 DT. Right now i have a DT getting 99 and below. Will it in turn become a single tuner since i have to use a box

[mick66]

ok since i havnt paid attention to this how will it affect the series 2 DT. Right now i have a DT getting 99 and below. Will it in turn become a single tuner since i have to use a box

You'll only need a set top box if/when your cable company stops sending you the analog signals

[bicker]

Anybody believe that cable operators will gladly bear the cost of converting local broadcast digital to analogue? There is money to be made in converting customers to digital set top boxes and 'upgrading' them to new more profitable tiers. Even if they 'give away' the first box to each customer they will certainly make it up on renting additional boxes within the home. The free ride of additional outlets is probably over. It makes a lot of sense to convert to digital and gain network bandwidth while doing the analogue conversion at the consumers TV sets. All this profit available, and the ability to place the blame on the government when customers complain. Priceless...Absolutely on-target. We already know that one of the advantages of forcing use of digital STBs for everything beyond digital broadcast channels, as permitted by the regulations, is that the cable system can readily count the number of outlets (sometimes overestimating, but that's the customers' burden to prove), and the fact that it is standard practice to charge extra for each digital outlet. The cable systems are going back to the model that they started with, which is a much more sustainable model for the industry (so that should spark perhaps a bit more interest in terrestrial competition), and provide a means of finally curbing cable theft once and for all.

[classicsat]

Yes, the Series2 -DT will in effect become a single tuner when they turn off analog and you need to use a digital STB.

[fredct]

Yes, the Series2 -DT will in effect become a single tuner when they turn off analog and you need to use a digital STB.

Btw, when my/your/our cable companies turn off analog, would those 'converter' boxes be able to convert it back to analog? Or do those only work for OTA? *Could* they be made for cable too even if the first revs aren't?

That way with a TiVo DT, a cable box, and a converter box, you'd still have 2 tuners (although it'd be starting to get a bit complex).

[ah30k]

Btw, when my/your/our cable companies turn off analog, would those 'converter' boxes be able to convert it back to analog? Or do those only work for OTA? *Could* they be made for cable too even if the first revs aren't?

That way with a TiVo DT, a cable box, and a converter box, you'd still have 2 tuners (although it'd be starting to get a bit complex).The converters you refer to will convert a single digital channel off the RF spectrum into a single analog composite audio/video feed.

For the TiVo to work the way we're used to it would need to have a RF feed with analog channels (ie all 99 channels).

Not sure I'm making sense. The difference is which analog you're talking about; analog RF channels or analog composite audio/video.

[classicsat]

For cable, the "convertor" box will be a cable box. There is no consumer level solution to change all the digital channels in one go to analog, especially for sub $100 boxes.

The OTA "Convertors" will in effect be cable boxes without security, and minor changes to account for an OTA vs cable source.

IOW, yes, in effect they convert digital channels to analog, but just one channel at a time, and the one channel would be CH 3 or Ch 4, from the built in RF modulator.

[JJ]

I would expect
OTA converter boxes to be similar to the old Voom (without sat input) or USDTV boxes. Basically accepting the OTA RF signal and outputting a variety of video options. Formatting the signal to pan-scan letterbox or zoom as options of choice.

Unfortunately Series2 Dual Tuner models will only have one tuner active since it has only one IR shooter. Although this assumes that TiVo will accomodate users by adding codes for these products. Precedence in not on our side since TiVo only supports Voom as a Motorola 'Dish Network' box and USDTV OTA converters was never supported. I ran into that immovable stone wall with TiVo and thier firm policy of not supporting OTA converter boxes.

Maybe TiVo will change this policy sometime in the future, but history is absolutely not on the users side here...

[fredct]

Ah, okay. I see how that the converter boxes will only decode and output one channel at a time. I figured the tv would still due the tuning on the analog end, but I see now that many of the converter box pictures show a remote with them.

Let me ask this though, a tv with a digital tuner can tune them itself right? So if cable switches to all-digital, would a S2DT-"digital" (which I realize doesn't exist yet), or a TiVoHD maybe, be able to tune the digital cable itself, and thereby still have 2 tuners?

Or would the cable all-digital stations be encrypted (even the lower ones), unlike the OTA? Or does it depend on how the cable company implements it?

[JJ]

Profit margins
mean that anything beyond the basic/lifeline channels will be encrypted. Cable companies (like all companies) will try to prevent unauthorized access to thier product. If the Feds require providing something they can/will make it infinately easier to sign up for a higher tier product than to try and find the channels that are provided in 'hide 'n seek' mode.

TiVo could level that playing field by providing the ability to map OTA data (they already have) to these cable channels on TiVoHD and TiVo Series3.

Expect the absolute minimum required by law, you won't be disappointed...

[bicker]

Let me ask this though, a tv with a digital tuner can tune them itself right? So if cable switches to all-digital, would a S2DT-"digital" (which I realize doesn't exist yet), or a TiVoHD maybe, be able to tune the digital cable itself, and thereby still have 2 tuners?The analog shut-off will not affect the TiVo HD's ability to tune two channels.

Or would the cable all-digital stations be encrypted (even the lower ones), unlike the OTA?That wouldn't matter, since as long as they remain linear, full-time channels, the TiVo HD with CableCards could decrypt them.

Or does it depend on how the cable company implements it?Some cable companies will employ SDV, which is currently not supported by any TiVos. TiVo is trying to get the cable companies to deploy an adjunct, that has been designed, that will resolve that problem.

[feldon23]

The Analog-to-Digital conversion is really quite simple. The following people will be affected:
people with a black and white TV in their bathroom that pick up rabbit ears
people with a small TV in the basement with rabbit ears
people who have managed to avoid cable TV for the last 40 years (and satellite for the last 10)

For the other 83% of the population who have cable or satellite to most or all TVs in their house or watch TV on their PCs, you won't even notice the switchover.

So if you're one of those first 3 people, you will need to either buy a new TV or get a converter box. Why subsidized converter boxes have not been made available is beyond me. The U.S. Government will be making something like $400 billion off of the analog broadcast spectrum when they can sell it. I think they can afford to subsidize $100 converter boxes down to $20/ea.

[MickeS]

The cable systems are going back to the model that they started with, which is a much more sustainable model for the industry (so that should spark perhaps a bit more interest in terrestrial competition)

It will be interesting to see how this goes. Judging by the small and skewed sample in this forum, seems like many of us are more interested in receiving terrestrial signals again. OTA quality is often superior to cable quality too, as long as you can receive the signal.

It really is like you're saying - with SD and HD signals now, it's almost back to square one again for the cable companies. They'll have to compete with having more channels and customers will have to rent more boxes/CCs to use on several TVs in order to get those extra channels. At the same time, customers have the option to receive high-quality broadcast TV for free.

[bicker]

The OTA aspect doesn't really help me much: Besides the illegal actions that my condo association has absolutely not problem getting away with on a continuing basis, preventing us from putting up antennas within the condominium, my wife also has an aversion to an ugly antenna attached to the side of our home. OTA is a non-starter for me except as a novelty.

[MickeS]

The OTA aspect doesn't really help me much: Besides the illegal actions that my condo association has absolutely not problem getting away with on a continuing basis, preventing us from putting up antennas within the condominium, my wife also has an aversion to an ugly antenna attached to the side of our home. OTA is a non-starter for me except as a novelty.
Like me, you need one of these seemingly non-existent things: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=369658

:)

[bicker]

Yeah, my wife would go for something like that, and of course the condo association wouldn't have any choice. However, inside the structure of the condo, it may not work very well.