Eeeek...SDV "Tuning Resolver" to be supplied by the cable company!

[Saxion]

I've been looking for evidence of just how this USB "tuning resolver" for SDV will be provided to TiVo owners, and it looks like it will be provided by...the cable company! Yes, the same lovely folks who charge those oh-so-exhorbitant rates for everything from Expanded Basic to the SA8300.

Found this (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6519723062) in a recent CEA filing to the FCC (context was the SDV tuning resolver):

NCTA’s approach of using operator-provided hardware to translate a standard protocol (albeit still unpublished) via a standard interface (USB) into network-specific protocols (SDV) is identical in intent and approach to DCR+We can only hope that the FCC will regulate the rental cost of this new line-item on our bill...

[sfhub]

Wonder if the "tuning resolver" will count as yet another "additional digital outlet" fee.

Cable - That will be another $6.99 additional outlet fee maam. The tuning resolver is free though, included in the A/O fee.
User - But, but, but, I'm using the tuning resolver with my existing outlet.
Cable - Maam, we cannot tell what you are using the "tuning resolver" with, so we need to charge you the A/O fee and BTW do you have an HDTV?
User - Umm, yes, but I don't see why that matters...
Cable - Yes, thank you for that information, that will be another $5 HDTV fee.
User - So let me get this straight, just to get access to the programming I'm already paying for, I need to pay 2x$6.99 and 2x$5 + $1.79 = $25.77? That is crazy, how come if I get your equipment I only pay $11.99?
Cable - Maam, it is not our fault TiVo cannot design a usable product and requires us to provide various accessories to make the device work. TiVos have lots of trouble on all cable systems and are designed very poorly. You are lucky we even allow you to connect a TiVo to our cable system.

[bicker]

It seemed obvious to me from the outset that the tuning resolver would be provided by the cable company, since it needs to interact directly with the cable head-end in a secure manner, in an active, rather than passive, manner. I suspect there will be an associated fee, at least in some cases. My guess would be no more than the fee they charge for CableCards (i.e., not as much as for additional outlets).

[StuffOfInterest]

It seemed obvious to me from the outset that the tuning resolver would be provided by the cable company, since it needs to interact directly with the cable head-end in a secure manner, in an active, rather than passive, manner. I suspect there will be an associated fee, at least in some cases. My guess would be no more than the fee they charge for CableCards (i.e., not as much as for additional outlets).
Ideally, the tuning resolver would take the place of a cable card. Can someone say if the cable card actually does encryption processing or does it just provide keys to the TiVo which then does the work? If it is the former, then I doubt the tuning resolver could provide cable card functions. If it is the latter, I don't see why the key storage ability couldn't be integrated in so the user doesn't have to have both a tuning resolver and a cable card to make their TiVo work.

[vstone]

Ideally, the tuning resolver would take the place of a cable card. Can someone say if the cable card actually does encryption processing or does it just provide keys to the TiVo which then does the work? If it is the former, then I doubt the tuning resolver could provide cable card functions. If it is the latter, I don't see why the key storage ability couldn't be integrated in so the user doesn't have to have both a tuning resolver and a cable card to make their TiVo work.For your sxecond scenario, I would think that this depends on whether the cable card provodes the keys to Tivo software or directly to Tivo hardware. If the latter, it may not be possible to substitute a software interface to a hardware one.

[SCSIRAID]

Ideally, the tuning resolver would take the place of a cable card. Can someone say if the cable card actually does encryption processing or does it just provide keys to the TiVo which then does the work? If it is the former, then I doubt the tuning resolver could provide cable card functions. If it is the latter, I don't see why the key storage ability couldn't be integrated in so the user doesn't have to have both a tuning resolver and a cable card to make their TiVo work.

The cablecard is the decryption device. It decrypts the stream from the cableco and then re-encrypts it with a key provided by the tivo.

[HDTiVo]

Yes, the same lovely folks who charge those oh-so-exhorbitant rates for everything from Expanded Basic to the SA8300.

Could be worse. Could be supplied by the same lovely folks who charge as much as $19.95/mo for something they think is "service". How 'bout what they charge for their USB wireless Ethernet adapter?

Of, course, you probably want the thingy from netgear or d-link or such.


Wonder if the "tuning resolver" will count as yet another "additional digital outlet" fee.
When purchasing a home, always research the school system and the A/O fee policies.

[Joybob]

Dumb question but, are cablecard rates regulated at all?

I've heard all sorts of different rates being charged over the country.

Also, why does this have to be USB?

[sfhub]

It seemed obvious to me from the outset that the tuning resolver would be provided by the cable company, since it needs to interact directly with the cable head-end in a secure manner, in an active, rather than passive, manner.Just like a DOCSIS modem? It just depends on how one wants to implement it.

[acvthree]

Dumb question but, are cablecard rates regulated at all?

I've heard all sorts of different rates being charged over the country.

Also, why does this have to be USB?


The FCC have suggested that the fee be low, but have not defined what that number would be and have not, to my knowledge, enforced anything having to do with cable cards. Does anyone know of any enforcement actions?

As far as the USB interface, what would you suggest? I would guess that it was assumed that more systems would have a USB port than other varieties. I suppose it could have be something proprietary that would be built into the next generation product. Come to think of it, I wonder why it wasn't.

We need to start a pool for guesses on when this thing is going to show up.

Al

[mercurial]

Unfortunately, I'm more worried about them getting here in a timely manner than the cost per month at this point... Grr...

[Brainiac 5]

I suspect there will be an associated fee, at least in some cases. My guess would be no more than the fee they charge for CableCards (i.e., not as much as for additional outlets).Where I live, they charge an additional outlet fee for each CableCard.

In any case, I was rather hoping this would be something we could buy rather than rent, but it doesn't sound like it will be...

[Grakthis]

Cable companies are not dumb. They are keeping the price of cable cards reasonable, so I think it's reasonable to expect they will do the same with this device.

And frankly, if we can get mcards working with the S3 and get mcards widely available, i'll trade the 1.99 I am paying for the 2nd cable card for a dongle and be pretty happy about that.

[bicker]

Dumb question but, are cablecard rates regulated at all?Not the way you mean. Rather, cable companies present their rates, which can vary from location to location, for review, and action would be taken only if the AVERAGE rate was considered "excessive". Ostensibly, the regulation permits "excessive" rates in some places, compensated by very low rates in some other places.

Also, why does this have to be USB?That's probably the easiest interface to use for this. They had to choose one, of course, since multiple interfaces would take longer to argue about and design for.

[HiDefGator]

You guys are completely missing the bigger problem here. It doesn't matter what they charge for it until they actually have one to lease to you. If each cable company has to provide it then you have no idea what year an S3 will work with SDV in your city. Smaller cable companies could take years to comply.

[Revolutionary]

You guys are completely missing the bigger problem here. It doesn't matter what they charge for it until they actually have one to lease to you. If each cable company has to provide it then you have no idea what year an S3 will work with SDV in your city. Smaller cable companies could take years to comply.

+1

This is bad. With Tivo or a third party providing the hardware direct to consumers, there are market incentives pushing for more rapid development and deployment. With cable pushing the hardware out (presumably from third party manufacturers), there is no such market incentive. Nothing but our bitching and moaning and FCC nagging will light a fire under them.

[Joybob]

Not the way you mean. Rather, cable companies present their rates, which can vary from location to location, for review, and action would be taken only if the AVERAGE rate was considered "excessive". Ostensibly, the regulation permits "excessive" rates in some places, compensated by very low rates in some other places.

That's probably the easiest interface to use for this. They had to choose one, of course, since multiple interfaces would take longer to argue about and design for.

I'm just not sure how this works still. The dongle gets info from the USB telling it what channel the cablecard is viewing and it then sends a signal to request the channel? How long will it take for the channel to get sent to you? Will the dongle be able to get requests from both cablecards? Since the dongle will let you 'speak' with the cable co. will it enable PPV and VOD?

[Revolutionary]

I'm just not sure how this works still. The dongle gets info from the USB telling it what channel the cablecard is viewing and it then sends a signal to request the channel? How long will it take for the channel to get sent to you? Will the dongle be able to get requests from both cablecards? Since the dongle will let you 'speak' with the cable co. will it enable PPV and VOD?

I don't think they've said anything about VOD/PPV, but I imagine that this will do the trick. In fact, that might be one reason that the cable companies want to do this in the first place: more VOD/PPV customers = higher revenue. That said, true VOD is probably not going to happen as you need the software to interact with the head-end like an STB. But PPV could still work.

As for functionality, it should be pretty speedy. The idea is that it will give your Tivo the functionality of the cableco STB, so you can probably expect equivalent (maybe not identical) performance.

[Saxion]

You guys are completely missing the bigger problem here. It doesn't matter what they charge for it until they actually have one to lease to you. If each cable company has to provide it then you have no idea what year an S3 will work with SDV in your city. Smaller cable companies could take years to comply.+1. Excellent points by HiDefGator and Revolutionary. Cable could see this more as a PR win with the FCC (they revealed it first) without much enthusiasm behind it. FCC should require that this be made available (for free or at nominal cost) before SDV gets deployed in each area.

[Brainiac 5]

Cable companies are not dumb. They are keeping the price of cable cards reasonable, so I think it's reasonable to expect they will do the same with this device.The price is more reasonable in some places than in others. In my case, when I first got CableCards they were $4.95 each, so $9.90 per TiVo, vs. about $10 for the cable company DVR. I think the prices have since gone up to $6-7 per card vs. $12 for the cable company DVR. It seems odd for it to cost about the same regardless of whether I supply the main hardware or the cable company does.

[Revolutionary]

The price is more reasonable in some places than in others. In my case, when I first got CableCards they were $4.95 each, so $9.90 per TiVo, vs. about $10 for the cable company DVR. I think the prices have since gone up to $6-7 per card vs. $12 for the cable company DVR. It seems odd for it to cost about the same regardless of whether I supply the main hardware or the cable company does.

Wow, who is your cable company? Those are the highest prices I've heard of for CCs...

[TexasGrillChef]

Time Warner In Dallas... is offereing the Open Cable Cable Card... They have them available allready. Just their aren't any devices that work with them yet.

The Open Cable Cable Card... does fully support VOD, On-Demand, and SDV.

The Open Cable Cable Card... they charge $2.95 a month for. Same as their S or M One way CAble Cards.

TGC

[Brainiac 5]

Wow, who is your cable company? Those are the highest prices I've heard of for CCs...Comcast. It's because they're outlet fees - in my area they insist that each CableCard is an "outlet," even if they're both in the same device.

[aaronwt]

I told Comcast I have one outlet you provided and split it out myself. And for some reason they bought my arguement and they only charge me one outlet fee and zero for six cablecards.

Unfortunately I had no such luck with FIOS. They are charging me $2.99 each for four cable cards.

[Maeglin]

Comcast. It's because they're outlet fees - in my area they insist that each CableCard is an "outlet," even if they're both in the same device.
Same here... actually just checked with the Atlanta area folks today, and the same story. One wonders if these areas are going to ever update their systems to allow for multi-card devices as their corporate HQ has stated.

The first card is free, at least, but still... saving $50+/year is enough for me (and probably others) to wish they'd get with the program.

[HDTiVo]

It is not legitimate to charge more than one A/O fee for multiple CCs in a single box. They do know where the cards are because the cards are paired to slots. Its not like you can move a card to a slot in another device and have it work without re-authorizing it with the cable co.

[Maeglin]

It is not legitimate to charge more than one A/O fee for multiple CCs in a single box. They do know where the cards are because the cards are paired to slots. Its not like you can move a card to a slot in another device and have it work without re-authorizing it with the cable co.
Yes, but when that single box is the only box you have? Where's the justification of the so-called additional outlet in that case, even if it's just one?

As far as knowing that they're in the same device, I don't follow that logic unless it's input that way into their billing system. All they have are host and data IDs, which lock a card to a slot on a device. Those IDs in my case were written on the invoice that was left with me for the install, and I don't see any relation between the host IDs for the S3 slots. If one of those cards are moved to something else, that info would no longer match up, but there isn't an implied relationship as far as the cards being in the same device that I can see.

[wierdo]

Yes, but when that single box is the only box you have? Where's the justification of the so-called additional outlet in that case, even if it's just one?

As far as knowing that they're in the same device, I don't follow that logic unless it's input that way into their billing system. All they have are host and data IDs, which lock a card to a slot on a device. Those IDs in my case were written on the invoice that was left with me for the install, and I don't see any relation between the host IDs for the S3 slots. If one of those cards are moved to something else, that info would no longer match up, but there isn't an implied relationship as far as the cards being in the same device that I can see.
Someone from Comcast put them in the slots. If you move them, they will no longer be authorized.

[Grakthis]

The price is more reasonable in some places than in others. In my case, when I first got CableCards they were $4.95 each, so $9.90 per TiVo, vs. about $10 for the cable company DVR. I think the prices have since gone up to $6-7 per card vs. $12 for the cable company DVR. It seems odd for it to cost about the same regardless of whether I supply the main hardware or the cable company does.

That's insanity.

I pay 1.99 per CC vs about 12 for the box standalone DVR box.

[Maeglin]

If you move them, they will no longer be authorized.
Thank you, Captain Obvious! That's what I just said.

As for "Someone from Comcast put them in the slots", just because the installer can see what they're being installed in, that isn't going to change the billing setup at all.

[BobCamp1]

Comcast needs to fix their billing system. Maybe the FCC or FTC can help?

If Comcast told you that their billing system can only charge in $10 increments, so your two CableCards were $20/month even though they only "wanted" to charge you $1/month for each card, would that be a good excuse? So why are they "forced" to charge you for two outlet fees?

Back to the OT, wouldn't you want to rent the USB dongle? If you move, the dongle might not work in your new destination. But the Tivo would.

[pkscout]

Time Warner In Dallas... is offereing the Open Cable Cable Card... They have them available allready. Just their aren't any devices that work with them yet.

The Open Cable Cable Card... does fully support VOD, On-Demand, and SDV.


Thanks for infecting this thread with crap information as well. The Open Cable Cable Card is a rebranding of the multistream card. That's it. I tried to explain that in the other thread and you ignored it.

Cablecards do only the authorization. They have ABSOLUTELY NO COMMUNICATIONS CIRCUITRY TO TALK BACK TO THE HEAD END FOR TWO WAY COMMUNICATIONS.

Is that more clear?

[Brainiac 5]

As for "Someone from Comcast put them in the slots", just because the installer can see what they're being installed in, that isn't going to change the billing setup at all.I think the point is, they have a way that they could know that the two cards are in the same device: have the installer write that down. The fact that they failed to have the installer record that information doesn't mean it was impossible for them to know and bill accordingly.

[Brainiac 5]

Back to the OT, wouldn't you want to rent the USB dongle? If you move, the dongle might not work in your new destination. But the Tivo would.It depends on the cost of each alternative. In my case, I'd rather buy my CableCards, because of what it costs to rent them vs. prices I've heard about from the rare cable companies that sell instead of rent them (I believe on the order of $100). If the dongle doesn't cost too much, I'd rather buy it even if it would become useless if I move.

[Maeglin]

I think the point is, they have a way that they could know that the two cards are in the same device: have the installer write that down. The fact that they failed to have the installer record that information doesn't mean it was impossible for them to know and bill accordingly.
If only we lived in an ideal world...

That's my point.

[HDTiVo]

Thank you, Captain Obvious! That's what I just said.

As for "Someone from Comcast put them in the slots", just because the installer can see what they're being installed in, that isn't going to change the billing setup at all.
You are joking right? The cable installer, agent of the cable co, is there himself seeing them installed into one box that uses one "A/O", but that's not good enough for the cable co to set up billing as one box and one A/O?

You realize even the act of ejecting the card and immediately inserting into the same slot requires reauthorization. The system is as secure as necessary.

[HDTiVo]

Yes, but when that single box is the only box you have? Where's the justification of the so-called additional outlet in that case, even if it's just one?

Only if you would be charged an A/O fee for a cableDVR would that be legit.

A/O fees are only legit when they are exactly the same as for the cableDVR in the same situation.

[HDTiVo]

Let me add that my host IDs are virtually consecutive on my hi def TiVoes (probably not every number is a legit host ID...)

I'll bet there is some system that correlates Host ID #'s to whether they are in the same box.

So even without an install, I bet there is no question the cards are in the same box.

Imagine the odds of buying two devices that have Host IDs anything close to each other.

[TexasGrillChef]

Thanks for infecting this thread with crap information as well. The Open Cable Cable Card is a rebranding of the multistream card. That's it. I tried to explain that in the other thread and you ignored it.

Cablecards do only the authorization. They have ABSOLUTELY NO COMMUNICATIONS CIRCUITRY TO TALK BACK TO THE HEAD END FOR TWO WAY COMMUNICATIONS.

Is that more clear?

After reading your Post. here & there... I called TWC...

the Open Cable Cable Card IS TWO WAY.... IT will do VOD, SDV & On Demand.

Here is the link....

http://www.timewarnercable.com/Dallas/products/cable/CableCard_motorola.html

When I saw a installer he HAD 3 (THREE) different cable cards....

1. A Single Stream one way Moto Card

2. a Multi-Stream one way Moto Card

3. a Multi-Stream 2 Way OPEN CABLE CABLE CARD made by Moto.

I saw the card... it said ON THE CARD... Multistream 2 way Open Cable CArd.

TGC

[pkscout]

After reading your Post. here & there... I called TWC...

the Open Cable Cable Card IS TWO WAY.... IT will do VOD, SDV & On Demand.

Here is the link....

http://www.timewarnercable.com/Dallas/products/cable/CableCard_motorola.html


The CableCard is not two way. I can see where you would get confused by the TWC page, and certainly the CSRs are being "trained" to spread the confusion.

The description that the top of that page says "Open Cable Card PRODUCTS." The table leaves out the word products. An Open Cable Card PRODUCT is a device that supports OCAP and uses a CableCard.


When I saw a installer he HAD 3 (THREE) different cable cards....

1. A Single Stream one way Moto Card

2. a Multi-Stream one way Moto Card

3. a Multi-Stream 2 Way OPEN CABLE CABLE CARD made by Moto.

I saw the card... it said ON THE CARD... Multistream 2 way Open Cable CArd.

I do not doubt what you saw. I doubt what it means. I can stick a BMW sticker on my Subaru. It doesn't make it a BMW. Motorola may have just changed the labeling on the cards and what you saw was an old Multistream card and a new one with a new sticker on it.

[demon]

After reading your Post. here & there... I called TWC...

the Open Cable Cable Card IS TWO WAY.... IT will do VOD, SDV & On Demand.

You've totally been had. As I pointed out in another thread, and has been pointed out in this one by others, the only difference is in the labeling - the card itself, regardless of what the Moto docs, or the TW installer, or whatever say, has *nothing* to do with SDV, impulse PPV, on-demand, etc. Two-way communication is a property of the HOST DEVICE. Go read the Wikipedia article, or search for "CableCARD primer" on Google.

1. A Single Stream one way Moto Card

This is your S-Card.

2. a Multi-Stream one way Moto Card

This is your M-Card.

3. a Multi-Stream 2 Way OPEN CABLE CABLE CARD made by Moto.

Another name for the M-Card. This is probably just the "specially blessed" M-Card that goes in their CableCARD-based settops. This card should work *exactly* the same as the M-Card in a TiVo, and won't magically bless it with the ability to do SDV, impulse PPV, on-demand, etc.

I saw the card... it said ON THE CARD... Multistream 2 way Open Cable CArd.

Like this would be the first time Motorola or some other major vendor put out a "specially labeled" device that was *functionally identical* to something else. If Moto told you to jump off a bridge, would you do that? I hope not.

[ah30k]

After reading your Post. here & there... I called TWC...

the Open Cable Cable Card IS TWO WAY.... IT will do VOD, SDV & On Demand.

Here is the link....

http://www.timewarnercable.com/Dallas/products/cable/CableCard_motorola.html

When I saw a installer he HAD 3 (THREE) different cable cards....

1. A Single Stream one way Moto Card

2. a Multi-Stream one way Moto Card

3. a Multi-Stream 2 Way OPEN CABLE CABLE CARD made by Moto.

I saw the card... it said ON THE CARD... Multistream 2 way Open Cable CArd.

TGC
The risk of getting info from the internet is you get some saying white and others saying black. Anyway, I'll throw my two-cents in. There are no such things as one-way CableCARDs. There are hosts that are one-way, but all CableCARDs supported two-way since day-1.

http://www.opencable.com/primer/cablecard_primer.html
The media has frequently reported that first-generation CableCARD 1.0 modules are one-way devices1. This is simply not true. CableLabs had always intended to develop the CableCARD module and host receiver standards with two-way capability. However the manufacturers of digital TVs requested that a host standard be developed that only had one-way capability. This one-way cable-ready receiver was defined by the FCC's Plug & Play order and by the Joint Test Suite (JTS). It is the definition of this one-way receiver that lacks the ability for two-way functionality, not the CableCARD module. While the FCC defined the elements of the one-way cable-ready receiver, CableLabs continued to define specifications for two-way receivers.

When a CableCARD 1.0 module is used with a two-way receiver (e.g., Samsung HLR5067C) that card supports all the necessary two-way functionality for VOD, SDV, and other interactive services.

[SCSIRAID]

The risk of getting info from the internet is you get some saying white and others saying black. Anyway, I'll throw my two-cents in. There are no such things as one-way CableCARDs. There are hosts that are one-way, but all CableCARDs supported two-way since day-1.

And you are absolutely correct (as is pkscout and demon).

Here it is straight from Cablelabs.....

http://www.opencable.com/primer/cablecard_primer.html

The media has frequently reported that first-generation CableCARD 1.0 modules are one-way devices1. This is simply not true. CableLabs had always intended to develop the CableCARD module and host receiver standards with two-way capability. However the manufacturers of digital TVs requested that a host standard be developed that only had one-way capability. This one-way cable-ready receiver was defined by the FCC's Plug & Play order and by the Joint Test Suite (JTS). It is the definition of this one-way receiver that lacks the ability for two-way functionality, not the CableCARD module. While the FCC defined the elements of the one-way cable-ready receiver, CableLabs continued to define specifications for two-way receivers.

When a CableCARD 1.0 module is used with a two-way receiver (e.g., Samsung HLR5067C) that card supports all the necessary two-way functionality for VOD, SDV, and other interactive services.

[ah30k]

SCSIRAID, you must have been creating this post just as I was adding this very reference to my post. Sorry for the duplicate.

[SCSIRAID]

SCSIRAID, you must have been creating this post just as I was adding this very reference to my post. Sorry for the duplicate.

NP... Did you notice that the Time Warner page TGC pointed to also indicates that UDCP Cablecard does not support DVR? Perhaps we should tell Tivo to cease and desist :D

[demon]

NP... Did you notice that the Time Warner page TGC pointed to also indicates that UDCP Cablecard does not support DVR? Perhaps we should tell Tivo to cease and desist :D

And perhaps have those of us who delusionally believe our Series3/TiVo HD boxes are working fine committed, because obviously that's impossible. :)

[doormat]

You want to know why Cable Companies charge an A/O fee for each cablecard?

Because they pay a monthly tax to SA/Moto for each licensed active device in their system. The fee for your first one is rolled into your cost of programming. Each fee after that is... additional. Now I know its not $5 or $6 or whatever ripoff fee they're charging. But it is enough that they just cant hand cards out for free.

And I dont agree with this, as I keep calling Cox Las Vegas every week or two to ask if and when they're getting the M-Cards in for use in the TiVo so I can cut $7/mo off my bill ($5 A/O, $2 CC).

[HDTiVo]

You want to know why Cable Companies charge an A/O fee for each cablecard?

Because they pay a monthly tax to SA/Moto for each licensed active device in their system. The fee for your first one is rolled into your cost of programming. Each fee after that is... additional. Now I know its not $5 or $6 or whatever ripoff fee they're charging. But it is enough that they just cant hand cards out for free.

And I dont agree with this, as I keep calling Cox Las Vegas every week or two to ask if and when they're getting the M-Cards in for use in the TiVo so I can cut $7/mo off my bill ($5 A/O, $2 CC).
Well, they do say what happens in Vegas should stay in Vegas. :rolleyes:

[wierdo]

You want to know why Cable Companies charge an A/O fee for each cablecard?

Because they pay a monthly tax to SA/Moto for each licensed active device in their system. The fee for your first one is rolled into your cost of programming. Each fee after that is... additional. Now I know its not $5 or $6 or whatever ripoff fee they're charging. But it is enough that they just cant hand cards out for free.

And I dont agree with this, as I keep calling Cox Las Vegas every week or two to ask if and when they're getting the M-Cards in for use in the TiVo so I can cut $7/mo off my bill ($5 A/O, $2 CC).
Funny, Cox in Oklahoma (and Arkansas, which is in the Kansas market..go figure) doesn't charge an A/O fee for the card, only the $1.99. In fact, they don't charge A/O fees at all, aside from the initial install.

[mikeyts]

I love the wording of these filings. The CEA and NCTA sound increasingly like a pair of little kids fighting over a toy and arguing with Mommy over who should get to play with it :rolleyes:.

Though it makes sense for the cable company to provide the tuning resolvers--they would implement a small set of proprietary protocols in use for SDV which differ from cable system to cable system), the NCTA's proposal never said how they'd be provided--this CEA filing is just assuming that they'd be distributed by the cable provider. It's a good assumption, but an assumption nonetheless.

As for the timing of availability of these things, should the FCC choose the NCTA's tuning resolver approach (or the CEA's DCR+ approach using "M-Card+") they would order modifications to their regulations to require that cable providers stock the appropriate parts for their system, citing standards documents with which they have to comply and setting a deadline by which they must be made available, exactly as they did with CableCARDs in the first place. (That deadline should be something to the effect of "immediately as you activate SDV" for cable companies who haven't done so yet).

[bicker]

You want to know why Cable Companies charge an A/O fee for each cablecard? Because they pay a monthly tax to SA/Moto for each licensed active device in their system.That companies charge X because they incur cost Y is generally a myth. Companies generally charge what they charge because it reflects the value perceived by the market for what they provide. They come up with all these miscellaneous fees and such since that obscures the bottom-line cost in advertising, thereby attracting more business, but in the end, people write that check every month and compare the dollar amount they write on the check to what they get for that money, and implicitly make a decision whether to continue doing so or not based on their judgment.

[SCSIRAID]

You want to know why Cable Companies charge an A/O fee for each cablecard?

Because they pay a monthly tax to SA/Moto for each licensed active device in their system. The fee for your first one is rolled into your cost of programming. Each fee after that is... additional. Now I know its not $5 or $6 or whatever ripoff fee they're charging. But it is enough that they just cant hand cards out for free.

And I dont agree with this, as I keep calling Cox Las Vegas every week or two to ask if and when they're getting the M-Cards in for use in the TiVo so I can cut $7/mo off my bill ($5 A/O, $2 CC).

TWC Cary doesnt charge an A/O fee per card.... They charge $2.75 per card ($1.75 rental + a $1.00 for Digital Tier).

I would have answered your 'you want to know why....' question with.... Because they can.....

[andyw715]

"...There are no such things as one-way CableCARDs. There are hosts that are one-way, but all CableCARDs supported two-way since day-1...."


Thus this thread and other's like it and the need for the USB device in our one way TiVo's

[SCSIRAID]

The situation is really very simple.... The Tivo hardware as well as the License which Tivo operates under does NOT allow it to transmit anything onto the cable line. The dongle will be a device which is Licensed and Capable of transmitting on the cable line and establishing appropriate communications with the cableco equipment for the purpose of implementing 'value add' cable functionality.

Tivo may have been able to add hardware that would have been disabled until a license was granted to effect the 'reverse' transmission but that issue is moot since they didnt. Cablelabs may not have allowed it but that is also moot since the hardware isnt present.

Bring on the dongle!!!!

EDIT: Not sure where the post I was responding to went..... but Ill leave this here anyway.