Vudu vs Unbox on TiVo

[MickeS]

I just watched this review: http://www.cnettv.com/9742-1_53-29114.html

Seems like an interesting competitor to Unbox. Anyone tried it and have a direct comparison? The main advantage to me seems to be the instant play. The guy says VQ is very good, anyone seen it?

[MichaelK]

I just watched this review: http://www.cnettv.com/9742-1_53-29121.html

Seems like an interesting competitor to Unbox. Anyone tried it and have a direct comparison? The main advantage to me seems to be the instant play. The guy says VQ is very good, anyone seen it?


theres mention aorund here that unbox is working on instant play- but i'm not clear if it's for PC only users or also on the tivo...

[d_anders]

theres mention aorund here that unbox is working on instant play- but i'm not clear if it's for PC only users or also on the tivo...

They're working on instant play (aka watching the incoming stream once some has buffered to a minimal point) for TiVo too. It was mentioned specfiically in the recent quarterly investor call by TiVo's Sr. Mgmt.

Infact it's mentioned specifically on this thread:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=364271

[clem2270]

I just watched this review: http://www.cnettv.com/9742-1_53-29121.html

Seems like an interesting competitor to Unbox. Anyone tried it and have a direct comparison? The main advantage to me seems to be the instant play. The guy says VQ is very good, anyone seen it?


the link is bad.

[MickeS]

the link is bad.
OOps.

http://www.cnettv.com/9742-1_53-29114.html

[anom]

This thing has gotten decent reviews, but something about paying $400 for the privilege of paying again to watch a movie rubs me the wrong way. Plus, the rental limitation seem to be similar to those for Unbox (ie you only have one day to watch the movie), which are way too restrictive, and I'm sure not paying $15-$20 to "own" a movie on VuDu, since to me owning a movie means being able to take it off the hard drive and watch it somewhere else if I want.

It's a non-issue for me anyway, since my DSL is too slow for VuDu to work.

[MickeS]

I agree with you anom. I'm mostly just curious about the video quality, because everything else seems virtually identical to Unbox (except for the instant play, which as mentioned above TiVo is supposedly working on fixing).

I mean, if the video quality is way ahead of Unbox, then I could see the appeal, but if it's just slightly better, I would be more inclined to pay $200 more and get a TiVoHD with 3 year sub.

[Dan203]

This thing has gotten decent reviews, but something about paying $400 for the privilege of paying again to watch a movie rubs me the wrong way.

Isn't that the same thing people do when they buy an HD-DVD/Blu-Ray Player? Or how about an XBox/PS3? They require $50-$60 games to actually do anything. I know they're not exact comparisons, but they are similar in that you have to buy an expensive box then have to turn around and pay more for content to actually use that box.

I personally am going to seriously consider one of these when they come out. Based on what I've read the video quality is far superior to most competitors and actually in line with upsampling DVD players. I'll probably try one out at BestBuy or the like to see for myself, but it sounds promising.

Dan

[smak]

Was this the one where he said that all 5,000 movies have the first 30 seconds on the hard drive for the instant play?

That's a pretty ingenius idea there.

-smak-

[xunil76]

Isn't that the same thing people do when they buy an HD-DVD/Blu-Ray Player? Or how about an XBox/PS3? They require $50-$60 games to actually do anything. I know they're not exact comparisons, but they are similar in that you have to buy an expensive box then have to turn around and pay more for content to actually use that box.

I personally am going to seriously consider one of these when they come out. Based on what I've read the video quality is far superior to most competitors and actually in line with upsampling DVD players. I'll probably try one out at BestBuy or the like to see for myself, but it sounds promising.

Dan

this is not quite the same thing.....an XboX/PS3 has more uses than just playing movies (and you can rent the games, so you don't necessarily have to spend $50 - $60 on the games), and with a Blu-Ray/HD-DVD, you have a disc to play, which means you're not limited to a 24-hour period to watch the movie before you have to pay for it again. in my area, all the movie rental stores give you 5 days before the movies have to be returned....and there's also the option for rental programs like Netflix & such. hell, even the crappy DivX on-demand discs back in the early days of DVD (not to be confused with DivX-encoded media files) gave you something like 2 - 3 days before you had to pay to watch the movie again, and you even had a physical product that you owned.

then add to that the fact that if you buy a movie on this service, you cannot even make a backup copy of it onto a disc, so if your box's hard drive fails, you're screwed (or at the very least, you have to use up your own bandwidth to download it again).

the main thing with these types of products, really, is not the actual technology, unfortunately....there's a lot of awesome tech out there, including this product....it's just being held back by the RIAA/MPAA and the record companies/movie studios who are trying to give you less for the same or higher price (i.e., you don't even get a physical product, or the ability to create a "fair-use" backup of your purchased content).

sorry, but if i want to rent a movie, i'll go to the video store and get the actual disc that i don't have to return for 5 days....and if i want to buy a movie, i'll go buy the disc that i can make a backup of, and actually have a physical product for my money as well....

[mick66]

Anyone tried it and have a direct comparison?
It's not even on the market yet.

[Hawk1]

Was this the one where he said that all 5,000 movies have the first 30 seconds on the hard drive for the instant play?

That's a pretty ingenius idea there.
Yes, but a review also mentioned that the first 30 seconds of every movie are only production company logos, so it seems like a waste of hard drive space to me. I usually jump right past those (and I can't imagine most people don't), so I'd be caught up with and waiting for the download anyway. I can deal with delaying the start of the movie for a couple minutes by getting refreshments or something rather than sitting through the logos.

I think a better idea may be for the hard drive to contain movie previews, and then an algorithm could be used to play a couple of those that might appeal to a similar audience as the selected film, for those who want the 'instant play' feel. The viewer would also have all of them available for off-line browsing, as well.

[anom]

Isn't that the same thing people do when they buy an HD-DVD/Blu-Ray Player? Or how about an XBox/PS3? They require $50-$60 games to actually do anything. I know they're not exact comparisons, but they are similar in that you have to buy an expensive box then have to turn around and pay more for content to actually use that box.

I personally am going to seriously consider one of these when they come out. Based on what I've read the video quality is far superior to most competitors and actually in line with upsampling DVD players. I'll probably try one out at BestBuy or the like to see for myself, but it sounds promising.


Sort of, but there are a few differences, the main one being that if I buy a DVD, I can play it where I want. If I buy a VuDu movie, I can only watch it on their player.

To me, it feels like buying a juke box, but then having to put a quarter in myself whenever I wanted to play a song even though I owned the thing, then having the guy who sold me the juke box come over to my house once in awhile and collect the money. I know that's a flawed analogy, but it still bugs me.

[MickeS]

The interesting to me is the video quality.:) Anyone know how they achieve a higher quality? Are TiVo/Amazon underestimating their audience, or limited by technological shortcomings of the TiVo hardware?

I have played back bit-by-bit DVD rips on my Series 2 that look exactly like the DVD - I don't understand why TiVo/Amazon can't offer that on Unbox, if a service like Vudu can offer that quality or higher.

If this thing sells OK, I gotta say that TiVo has really missed the mark with Unbox - they should be able to use it to sella lot more units, when a TiVo has much more to offer than just movie rentals/purchases, at a total price with 3 years service that's not much higher.

[davezatz]

I personally am going to seriously consider one of these when they come out. Based on what I've read the video quality is far superior to most competitors and actually in line with upsampling DVD players. I'll probably try one out at BestBuy or the like to see for myself, but it sounds promising.

As far as I know they don't have a brick & mortar retail presence and the video is upscaled 480p. My $400 Xbox 360 rents me true HD movies and does a whole lot more. I also had a Moviebeam which offered true HD, though the content selection was small. Hopefully, TiVo will have HD video downloads one day, but I wouldn't count on it this year. Wonder what Netflix is cooking up... whatever it is, I guarantee it won't cost as much as $400.

[Einselen]

Hasnt this idea been around for awhile? I remember hearing about MovieBeam (http://www.moviebeam.com/) over a year ago. How is this that much different?

[megazone]

I think Vudu is a complete waste of money. There are other options which do more for the same, or less, money - like the XBox 360, Apple TV, TiVo with Unbox, etc. $400 for a box that just allows you to run downloads, when other products do the same for less AND give you capabilities like game play, disc playback, DVR, etc. AND Vudu *requires* a 2Mbps broadband connection to work since it pulls the movies in real-time. And it also uses your upstream bandwidth to deliver content to other Vudu users - so it will interfere with devices like Slingbox by competing for bandwidth.

It does too little for the price. Avoid it - wait to see if the price comes down or if it even survives. This needs to be a *service* bundled with other hardware.

[bilbo]

Free pilots of Bionic Woman and Journeyman are available now.

Also available (for free): Chuck and Life.

[Ishma]

DOA... No way this product will survive. I can't see any benefits to it.

[MickeS]

DOA... No way this product will survive. I can't see any benefits to it.
I gotta say I agree.

It's like AppleTV without the name recognition.

[Dan203]

The interesting to me is the video quality.:) Anyone know how they achieve a higher quality? Are TiVo/Amazon underestimating their audience, or limited by technological shortcomings of the TiVo hardware?

I have played back bit-by-bit DVD rips on my Series 2 that look exactly like the DVD - I don't understand why TiVo/Amazon can't offer that on Unbox, if a service like Vudu can offer that quality or higher.

Basically yes. This VuDu product uses MPEG4 video with true 5.1 audio. Because of the limitations of the TiVo hardware, specifically S2 units, the TiVo/Unbox service is required to use MPEG2 video and 2.1 audio.* Since MPEG2 video at DVD quality takes a LOT more bandwidth then the same video in MPEG4 format TiVo/Amazon is forced to lower the quality of the video to reduce download sizes. The other limitation is that the TiVo hardware/software is limited to playing video encoded at 29.97fps. Some movies are encoded at 24fps, which means that Amazon has to do a framerate conversion as well, which degrades the quality even more.

If TiVo/Amazon were to provide a special version specifically for S3 owners then they could match the quality of VuDu exactly. However they're currently downgrading to the lowest common denominator so we all have to suffer.

Dan

* Actually all TiVos can play 5.1 audio, however there are only a couple (i.e. DVD units and S3 units) which actually have the hardware to output true 5.1 via optical.

[Dan203]

As far as I know they don't have a brick & mortar retail presence and the video is upscaled 480p. My $400 Xbox 360 rents me true HD movies and does a whole lot more. I also had a Moviebeam which offered true HD, though the content selection was small. Hopefully, TiVo will have HD video downloads one day, but I wouldn't count on it this year. Wonder what Netflix is cooking up... whatever it is, I guarantee it won't cost as much as $400.

Based on what I read the hardware is capable of 1080p they just don't currently have any licensing deals which allow them to transmit HD video.

Dan

[Dan203]

I gotta say I agree.

It's like AppleTV without the name recognition.

Based on the reviews I've read this thing has better video quality and a bigger selection then AppleTV.

Not to say that it wont turn out to be a total flop, but everything I've read thus far has been very positive.

Dan

[MickeS]

Based on the reviews I've read this thing has better video quality and a bigger selection then AppleTV.

Not to say that it wont turn out to be a total flop, but everything I've read thus far has been very positive.

I just watched David Pogues bit about this on the NY Times TiVoCast. The glimpses they showed of the remote and the interface made it seem very attractive.

I don't know if people will pony up $400 for it though. But if they do, it seems to me that TiVo is once again missing the boat on HD - this time on downloads. Because there is as far as I can tell nothing that this box can do that the TiVoHD can't.

I think TiVo needs to REALLY get their HD Unbox act together if they don't want to be left in the dust again.

Oh, and the remote for the Vudu has a scrollwheel - many years ago I suggested here in the forum (http://archive.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?threadid=94868) that TiVo should have a trackball control on the bottom of their remote, for increased usability in new interfaces. I am still disappointed that they didn't incorporate anything like that in the HD boxes' remotes.

[dylanemcgregor]

Free pilots of Bionic Woman and Journeyman are available now.

Also available (for free): Chuck and Life.

This is on Unbox not Vudu in case any one was a tad confused like me.

[bilbo]

How about the big, long iPhone ad by NBC (Journeyman)? And it's not available at iTunes! Ha, ha, ha!

[megazone]

It didn't seem like they ever really focused on it being an iPhone - but they sure as hell let you know he was using Google. Of course, there was enough to spot it as an iPhone.

[Dmon4u]

"Hands On" Vudu in Yahoo tuday:

http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/patterson/7269

[kmill14]

So for $400 you have the right to rent movies for 1-4 bucks? Crazy! Why would I spend 400 bucks on a 1 trick pony when I can spend the same or less on a Tivo HD box that does this and so much more?

It makes NO SENSE to me. None. Same for Apple TV or any other 1-trick pony box.