Silly Aspect Ratio Question

[Mark Bennett]

I have just bought my first widescreen TV :cool: , and have a question regarding aspect ratios...

Up to now (on the 4:3 set), I have had the Sky box set to 4:3L - meaning 16:9 programmmes have the black bars top and bottom. 4:3 programmes filled the screen (of course). So everything in the correct A/R.

I have also been archiving programmes to DVD using the well known method that can't be mentioned here. (Or can it? I thought I'd seen it mentioned recently!)

My question therefore is, what do I set the Skybox to for the new 16:9 set, in order to get the corrrect A/Rs when watching/Recording/Archiving? I'm guessing 16:9 to match the new TV, or does that mess up the Tivo - TyT**ls part? If it's a 4:3 programme I want 4:3, if 16:9 then 16:9...

Can't quite get my head around this! :o

Swiching the TV between the correct A/R's is not an issue.


Edited to clarify which TV I'm talking about in each bit! :o

[MikeMar]

a 4:3 show should NOT fill the screen, you should have bars on the sides, a 16:9 SHOULD fill the entire screen

[Mark Bennett]

Sorry - still talking the old set!

4:3 filled that, but obviously not the new one.

I'll edit the original post :)

[cwaring]

You will need to set your Sky box to 14:9 in order to see things in the correct aspect ratio. There's no other way. However, this means that any programme shown recorded in this mode on a 4:3 TV will need the TV to be switched to W/S mode or everything will look tall and thin.

[RichardJH]

You will need to set your Sky box to 14:9

Carl didn't you mean 16:9

[Mark Bennett]

You will need to set your Sky box to 14:9 in order to see things in the correct aspect ratio. There's no other way. However, this means that any programme shown recorded in this mode on a 4:3 TV will need the TV to be switched to W/S mode or everything will look tall and thin.


That's what I thought, just worried about the DVD's ;)
I guess 4:3 programmes recorded to DVD will play ok - or will they be stretched? (or do I just explicitly set the TV to 4:3 mode to play 4:3 programmes?)

[Mark Bennett]

I feel a complete muppet asking this BTW...

:rolleyes:

[RichardJH]

I have 2 Tivos and a V+ box setup for 16:9 output to my Sony 32" WS CRT TV and it switches automatically between 4:3 and 16:9 according to STB output although most of the time when the programme isn't in 16:9 I leave the TV to select smart mode and allow it to get rid of the black bars. For most programmes any distortion is negligible.

I have all networked via RF co-ax to upstairs TV (4:3) with conrol by TVlink Plus and even SWMBO has got the knack of using the aspect button on the 4:3 TV to get best results.

As far as DVDs are concerned same thing but even with a WS TV you will often see black bars top and bottom because a lot of DVDs are in 2.35-1 format

I feel a complete muppet asking this BTW...

Don't worry we have been there, and some of the old Muppet Shows are only in 4:3 :D :D

[TCM2007]

That's what I thought, just worried about the DVD's ;)
I guess 4:3 programmes recorded to DVD will play ok - or will they be stretched? (or do I just explicitly set the TV to 4:3 mode to play 4:3 programmes?)

The DVDs you create will be anamorphic 16:9, just like ones you buy. Depending on the DVD authoring software you use, you may have to manually switch the TV into forced 16:9 mode.

Someone playing back on an old 4:3 TV will see a horzinatally compressed image.

[Sneals2000]

The DVDs you create will be anamorphic 16:9, just like ones you buy. Depending on the DVD authoring software you use, you may have to manually switch the TV into forced 16:9 mode.

Someone playing back on an old 4:3 TV will see a horzinatally compressed image.

If properly mastered the DVDs of 16:9 anamorphic material will replay either in 4:3 centre cut or 16:9 letterbox on a 4:3 TV if the DVD player is configured correctly.

However if you have a 4:3 TV fed from the Tivo in another room, then that will suffer from 16:9 material being tall and thin if your display doesn't accept line 23 WSS which the Tivo generates internally.

(One of the great things about Tivo is that even if your source doesn't generate L23 WSS - Sky boxes don't for example, and only use SCART pin 8 to signal aspect ratio - the output of the Tivo does include it - meaning widescreen switching happens even if a SCART cable isn't used to connect displays to the Tivo. L23 survives RF connection, and even VHS recording, though it is usually blanked by DVD recorders)

[cwaring]

Carl didn't you mean 16:9
Erm, yes. Sorry! :o Typo.

The DVDs you create will be anamorphic 16:9, just like ones you buy. Depending on the DVD authoring software you use, you may have to manually switch the TV into forced 16:9 mode.

Someone playing back on an old 4:3 TV will see a horzinatally compressed image.
Which is what I said, but you phrased it better :)

[Mark Bennett]

OK. So I think I'm worrying needlessly then

(and I see it is as complicated as I thought!)

Thanks everyone.

I actually shortcut tyt**ls DVD authoring, I output from tytools in mpg format, and just pull that straight into pinnacle, add menus/edit etc, and there is the DVD.

Simple :)

Just didn't want squished DVD of the Italian GP this weekend :eek:

[Pugwash]

All this talk of authoring DVD's, and I usually find it easier to download stuff off t'internet than extraction.

[cwaring]

Yeah, well. One's illegal, the other's just immoral. Or something :D

[Cainam]

Off-topic, and probably best discussed in the other place but...

I always found that when programmes have somehow 'fallen' off the Tivo onto my PC, the widescreen flag has not come with it.

So after I have converted it into a .VOB file I use a program called DVDPatcher to set it to 16:9 (if it is a 16:9 program, obviously!)

Then, when the IFO file is created, it sets the flag for you correctly. Or, when I convert the program into a format suitable to play on my Archos portable media player, it keeps the aspect ratio correct. Or when I pull it into Ulead (if I want a fancy menu), it also works.

I know this is not strictly necessary, and you can could manually edit the IFO file once created to put it into widwescreen mode, or manually change TV (or PC, wherever you are watching the DVD) into displaying it in widescreen mode, but this method works for me.

HTH!

I always perfer to burn a DVD straight from the extracted VOB file, rather than pulling it into Ulead first, as it is a lot quicker as there is no re-encoding going on.

[Raisltin Majere]

a 4:3 show should NOT fill the screen, you should have bars on the sides, a 16:9 SHOULD fill the entire screen

I don't understand this stuff either. I get black lines at the top and bottom of my screen, I thought this was normal. Is it not?

[ozsat]

I don't understand this stuff either. I get black lines at the top and bottom of my screen, I thought this was normal. Is it not?This may help explain - http://channel2020.co.uk/talk16x9.php

[Raisltin Majere]

This may help explain - http://channel2020.co.uk/talk16x9.php

Thanks, that makes sense. But has further confused me :)

I get the black lines because of this "hybrid" ratio, yes?

Why do I get bigger black lines when watching a DVD? If I understand the link correctly, DVD is 16:9 so should fill my screen, but that doesn't happen. I have scrolled through all the options on my tv, the only one that fills the screen makes everything looked stretched.

What am I not doing correctly?

[RichardJH]

As far as DVDs are concerned even with a WS 16:9 TV you will often see black bars top and bottom because a lot of DVDs are in 2.35-1 format

[RichardJH]

This may help or confuse
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspect_ratio_(image)

The aspect ratio of an image is its displayed width divided by its height (usually expressed as "x:y" or "x×y," with the joining colon or multiplication symbol articulated as the preposition "by" or sometimes "to").

Currently, the most common motion picture film ratios in use are 1.85:1 and 2.39:1[1]. In video, the two standardized ratios are currently the traditional 4:3 (1.33:1), universal among standard definition video formats, and its modern 16:9 (1.78:1) successor, used in high-definition television and European digital television. Historically, many other aspect ratios no longer in general use have existed in both film and video. Conversion between formats with unequal ratios can be accomplished by either cropping the image to fit the receiving format's ratio or adding black bars (letterboxing or pillarboxing) to retain the original format's ratio. Film ratios tend to be formatted to end with ":1", while video ratios usually prefer to be denoted with whole numbers on both sides of the ratio

[Automan]

While on ths subject I have been trying tytools also.
A lot easier than I ever imagined to get going but have minor snags :(

playback image seems shifted to left with green vertical bar at right end of screen.

Anyway to correct this?

Widescreen flag
I will try dvdpatcher for dvd files but how about output to mpg or the like to play in windows media player?

Many Thanks

Automan.

[RichardJH]

A long time since I had the green bar issue but IIRC using the RGBset fix or something like that I think fixes it

[...coolstream]

While on ths subject I have been trying tytools also.
A lot easier than I ever imagined to get going but have minor snags :(

playback image seems shifted to left with green vertical bar at right end of screen.

Anyway to correct this?

Widescreen flag
I will try dvdpatcher for dvd files but how about output to mpg or the like to play in windows media player?

Many Thanks

Automan.
I haven't seen a green line on the RHS since I switched to mode 0 recording.

I'm sure you use mode 0, so maybe it might be worth checking your settings.

Files that come off tivo are in my case in a 4:3 ratio but the picture is 'tall and thin'. It isn't a problem because in the editing, I set the AR to 16:9 and all becomes good.

If you just want to play back a file that has fallen off your tivo, I find media player classic much better because files can be manually resized in any direction during playback.

[TCM2007]

While on ths subject I have been trying tytools also.
A lot easier than I ever imagined to get going but have minor snags :(

playback image seems shifted to left with green vertical bar at right end of screen.

Anyway to correct this?

Widescreen flag
I will try dvdpatcher for dvd files but how about output to mpg or the like to play in windows media player?

Many Thanks

Automan.

The green bar was there in the original TiVo output but cropped off in the overscan. If you play back the file on a TV (by making it into a DVD) it will similarly be cropped off on replay.

You can use software like AviSynth to crop and re-compress the file if need be, or fiddle with the Mode 0 settings.

Use a player such as Classic Media Player which allows you to overrule the aspect ratio.

[Automan]

Many thanks for the tips...

I have not set Mode 0 myself but have got pre-configured upgrade drives so perhaps they were supplied pre-set.

Any easy way to tell from Tivoweb?

My first try of dvdpatcher had no effect so will try again applying to whole file.

Automan.

[Benedict]

You need to apply DVDPatcher to the whole file for the aspect ratio change to have any effect.