So What do think abou the HR20?

[JoeAverage]

Okay, I am that straight C average person when it comes to HD TIVO. I do know I love the TIVO format, I love the HD channels, I am so-so about Direct- TV, and I can not stand Comcast. I have an old HR10-250 and I know it is about to go the way of the dodo bird in 2008. Looks like I am going to have to upgrade to the HR20. So to the die hard TIVO fans out there, how do you like the HR20 so far? Are there any options to “Having my Cake and eating it too?”

[ebonovic]

Besure to also check out the main discussion forum for the HR20:
www.dbstalk.com

Sure... you can keep your HR10-250 active as well as adding an HR20.
That way for everything you have access to (OTA-HD, the remaining HD SAT channels till they are converted, and SD), on your HR10-250

All the new content, on the HR20.

[RS4]

Okay, I am that straight C average person when it comes to HD TIVO. I do know I love the TIVO format, I love the HD channels, I am so-so about Direct- TV, and I can not stand Comcast. I have an old HR10-250 and I know it is about to go the way of the dodo bird in 2008. Looks like I am going to have to upgrade to the HR20. So to the die hard TIVO fans out there, how do you like the HR20 so far? Are there any options to “Having my Cake and eating it too?”

You'll get a lot of opinions about the HR20 - all the way from people saying it's better then Tivo (aren't many of those) to those Tivo users who have given up on it and glad they kept their DTivo.

The thing that impresses me the most is that there is not a lot of raving about the HR20, especially from the Tivo users. In fact, the opinion I see most is that it's ok, but it isn't a Tivo - or if DirecTV came out with an mpeg4 HD Tivo (many of us are hoping for that kind of announcement once the new ownership takes over), they'd replace the HR20 with it.

Check out the dbstalk.com. That forum is great for getting more ideas about it.

[Todd]

Well, I've had mine for a few weeks and it's become unresponsive 3 times, forcing me to restart it. That doesn't make me too happy, especially since I've been having lockup problems with my HR10 since I finally went to 6.3x. Aside from that, it's not a bad DVR, but certainly not as user friendly in most respects as TiVo is. The lack of dual live buffers is inexcusable and it's skip to tick mark and skip to live TV features are a buggy mess. Plus, if I ever have to get rid of my HDTiVo, I will really miss the Suggestions feature. Also, if you want to pump any video out of it to remote 4:3 TV's in your house, you will have aspect ratio problems...

[coachO]

After one week of use, let me simply say it works just fine but it is a nuisance.

[JoeAverage]

After one week of use, let me simply say it works just fine but it is a nuisance.


Comcast is starting to look better and better. At least they support HD Tivo... right??

[videojanitor]

The thing that impresses me the most is that there is not a lot of raving about the HR20, especially from the Tivo users. In fact, the opinion I see most is that it's ok, but it isn't a Tivo - or if DirecTV came out with an mpeg4 HD Tivo (many of us are hoping for that kind of announcement once the new ownership takes over), they'd replace the HR20 with it.

That pretty much sums up my feelings. I got the HR10-250 when it first came out (who doesn't remember the frenzy involved with trying to get one of those??), and I'm still using it. I also have a couple of HR20s -- got the first one last November. I don't really have a problem with the HR20 -- it's easy enough to use and it's stable -- but the TiVo just feels "better" to me -- more "natural" to use if that makes any sense. And the SCANNING on the HD TiVo blows the HR20 away -- much, much easier and more responsive. Anyone that has ever tried to use the "skip to tick" function on the HR20 knows what I'm talking about -- it works, but it's like walking up a flight of stairs with a couple of cinder blocks around your ankles.

But, I use it, because it gives me the channels I want. If they ever came out with an MPEG-4 DirecTiVo though, I'd be all over it.

[jbrasure]

I had the HR20 for a few months. I'll just sum up by saying that my blood pressure dropped when I finally got rid of it. The Tivo is much easier to use.

[Stanley Rohner]

I'll probably get flamed for saying something nice about the HR20 like usual, but here goes - I've had my HR20 since October of 2006 and I'm really happy with it. It had software issues in the beginning but it's been rock solid for me since April or so.

I'm sure someone will jump in and say - That's not what I've heard !!, HR20 talk is not allowed here !!, This is a TiVo DVR forum !, not a DIRECTV DVR forum ! Does that about cover it guys ? Maybe throw in a - DIRECTV DVRs SUCK !! for good measure.

[Arcady]

I'm not going to say anything about it not being a TiVo.

Who cares, when the content being recorded is low-quality over-compressed HD-lite garbage?

[Redux]

Be sure to also check out ...That was a fair and honest post.

[DavidO]

Comcast is starting to look better and better. At least they support HD Tivo... right??

If Comcast, or any other cable TV provider, adds new channels using SDV, Tivo HD won't get them.

[jennifer]

I'm learning to like it. It's tough for me to go between the two softwares, as I still have an HR10 in the bedroom.

I do like the fact that recording a show is so simple with the HR20. It doesn't interrupt what I'm doing and is so quick.

[bigpuma]

If Comcast, or any other cable TV provider, adds new channels using SDV, Tivo HD won't get them.

True but Comcast is coming out with their own DVR with TiVo software so I imagine if they do go to SDV they will also have an HD DVR with TiVo software available for it.

[TonyD79]

You'll get a lot of opinions about the HR20 - all the way from people saying it's better then Tivo (aren't many of those) to those Tivo users who have given up on it and glad they kept their DTivo.


Aren't many of the latter, either. Probably fewer.

But at least you at last admitting that there are those who like the HR20.

Little steps, little steps.

[CessnaDriver]

The thing that impresses me the most is that there is not a lot of raving about the HR20, especially from the Tivo users. it.

That's because we aren't allowed to on here, but I will do it now anyway.

I LOVE MY HR20! I am a raving fan.

[flynxx]

In the 10 days I've had mine, I personally like them.

Just a matter of getting used to it.

[Sir_winealot]

On a scale of 1-10 I'd give it about a 6. Little annoying nuances aside, if it would just get through a full damn month without missing/screwing up a recording I could maybe get behind it. But it's been consistantly inconsistant.

[kmill14]

The look and feel of the HR 20 is fine...different from Tivo, but fine.

I don't like the menu set-ups and how many menu clicks it takes me to get to the scheduler/to-do list.

I don't like that you have to have season passes set up to record ALL programs (new or re-run) because you never know if the guide will properly lable the new shows.

I love seeing how much space I have left to record with.

I HATE not having a true dual buffer. HATE HATE HATE :mad: :mad:

I love knowing I will get a ton of new HD channels in the next month that I wouldn't with Comcast.

I hate wondering if the scheduler is going to screw up my recordings. I never worry about that with Tivo...ever.

I love the picture in channel guide feature.

I hate that its not Tivo.

[marvod]

On a scale of 1-10 I'd give the HR20 a 8. All 3 of mine have worked perfectly out of the box. Everything works as advertised and I will be receiving the new MPEG4 channels.

Do I miss my HR10's? Not really. I had to hack the hell out of it to do some of the things the HR20 does out of the box.

Would I go back if Tivo and Directv announced and updated MPEG4 box? Only if I can get it free like I did the HR20's. Yup thats right. Didn't pay a dime. Kinda nice since I got so screwed on the 3 HR10's I had.

So jump in the waters great.. :D

[lancelot]

I don't think the HR20 is built as well as the HR10. My HR20s make noise like a typewriter. The HR10 is quiet and has more of the features I like--suggestions, wish list, etc.

If it wasn't for MPEG IV compatibility, I would never have consiered the HR20. I've suffered through lock ups, missed recordings, etc. Admittedly, lately, the software upgrades have improved things signficantly.

[stevel]

My HR20 is dead silent (other than the gentle whir of the disk.) You're hearing hard disk seek noise which can vary among drives.

[stevmead]

Keep your HR10 until:
1. Quality of D's HD content improves (maybe 2015!)
2. HR20 includes dual buffers (again, maybe 2015)

I'm in no rush to get more garbage. Can't wait to see the posts complaining about how poor the new HD channels are.

[CosmoKramer]

Keep your HR10 until:
1. Quality of D's HD content improves (maybe 2015!)
2. HR20 includes dual buffers (again, maybe 2015)

I'm in no rush to get more garbage. Can't wait to see the posts complaining about how poor the new HD channels are.

+1

[tfederov]

Love mine. All four are up, running, and networked so I can stream my pics and music from my PC to them. I've had no issues in almost a year.

[ebonovic]

2. HR20 includes dual buffers (again, maybe 2015)


You are optomistic

[TonyD79]

I don't like the menu set-ups and how many menu clicks it takes me to get to the scheduler/to-do list.


To get to todo list on Tivo. Shortest method: Two clicks (Menu and 2).

To get to todo list on HR20. Shortest method: Two clicks (List and Yellow).

Just thought you'd like to know.

[billyd88]

Love mine. All four are up, running, and networked so I can stream my pics and music from my PC to them. I've had no issues in almost a year.



While I only have two of them right now. I can also say that they are issue free!

[HiDefGator]

Mine record and play back shows just like my Tivo's did. I'm not sure what there is to not like about them.

[JMikeD]

The only thing I dislike about the HR20 is that it has to search one item at a time instead of displaying all the items on the Wishlist at the same time as the Tivo does. Otherwise, it's a wash (to me).

[Todd]

You are optomistic
If that's the case, then the people at DirecTV are deaf idiots.

:down:

[stivovance]

It took 10 to get 3 activated and up and running.

So far, I've had 1 missed recording in about a month of use. Up until recently, haven't had that issue with my hr10 running 6.3c. This will become a more pressing issue when the hr20 won't have a backup that can record mpeg4 programming. For now, have the hr10 and dsr704 backing each other up.

Yes, menus are different, nothing shocking there.

I wish there was a way to turn off the in menu video. The whole point of having a dvr is that I can watch something later. I know I'm not alone in the fact come fall tv season, you turn on the tv and want to start watching a show that's recorded, only to find out who the killer is or the big plot reveal for the week because of this gem of a feature, it's going to make me more than angry. Yes, it's neat, but the novelty wore off after about 10 mins of thinking about how it's going to affect my tv watching. So far, I've programmed my harmony 880 to auto pause, list and mute (just in case it misses those first 2 commands) in hopes that it doesn't ruin the whole point of recording a show to watch and enjoy later. However, with the limit of no in activity macros, it's only limited to turning on the tv the first time. Once you are done with a show, it's still hard to have to remember to hit the pause button before going to your now showing list.

dual buffers, don't see the argument here, record 2 shows and move on. I use my dvr as just that, a dvr about 99.9% of the time so the live tv thing I've gotten over about 6 years ago.

I do enjoy the 30 sec skip button, I've come to appreciate it.

How it handles getting to the end of a recording with the quick forward button, that needs serious overhauling. Even when you "get" to the end of a recording, it still plays so you still have to hit it again before you get the delete/keep message.

I have watched all but 1 show in the past month on the hr20, sort of a tivo-deprogramming if you will to get ready for the fall season. The SD and HD tivos are backups for now. I don't fully trust the HR20 to record everything at this point, BUT I also can't count on the HR10's either with the wacky guide data issues (directv's doing) so I'm hoping it gets as stable and reliable as the HR10 has been for the past 2 years.

The one unexpected benefit was SD shows look much better, which makes the compression issues a bit more tolerable.

I enjoy the consistent quickness of the unit and menu performance.

Overall, I'd give it a B+. If (for me) the in menu video could get turned off, just a slightly more fluid, user friendly menu system and reliability of recordings, I'd be very pleased.

[Directvlover]

I was a little hesitant at first to get the HR20 because i loved the tivo so much...but after having had it for awhile, i got to admit...it's fine. Sure tivo makes everything look and feel a little prettier, plus they have those little familiar sounds that it makes when you navigate through it that the HR20 is missing, but really as far as functionality goes..it's fine...in fact it's a little faster. For example when you want to set up a recording, you just press record and it's done....with the tivo I would press record and always have to wait sometimes up to 20 or so seconds for it to finally confirm.

Bottom line...i've gotten used to the HR20, it's easy to navigate, it does the job....i still have my HR10-250 Tivo hooked up in another room so i'm using both still. But i'd say i almost like the HR20 a little better. And since it's going to get me tons more HD channels very soon...i love it even more.

[AVPhan]

Piece of crap.

Not cause I am a Tivo guy, It's cause the programmers or whoever wrote the specs for the programmer to code who has no clue on what Users Friendly is all about.

My issues with it:

Had it for a month, already resets 6 times. Numerous empty recordings. Video Drop Outs. Networking issue (still had not time to dig into it yet, plus it's not worth it for me yet).

I am on a list of recordings and in a folder of 10 items, check the last one, repeat, delete, then had to go thru whole nine yard of list, folder, down to the bottom to check the next one.

eSata is a joke. What kind of a programmer to enble the feature to "TOTALLY REPLACE THE INTERNAL HARDDISK?"

Unfortunately, I have to take one for: New Channels and more tuner to record (too many conflicts now on my HR10).

[stevel]

I am on a list of recordings and in a folder of 10 items, check the last one, repeat, delete, then had to go thru whole nine yard of list, folder, down to the bottom to check the next one.
Just select the folder and press the dash key to delete the whole folder

eSata is a joke. What kind of a programmer to enble the feature to "TOTALLY REPLACE THE INTERNAL HARDDISK?"I like it that way, and so do those who keep multiple disks on hand and swap them in as needed. With the TiVo way, if the external disk is removed, you're hosed until it's replaced and you can't add a different disk. I'll agree that there are disadvantages too, but overall I prefer the DirecTV approach.

[AVPhan]

Just select the folder and press the dash key to delete the whole folder.
I don't want to delete the whole folder yet. Just one and then go to next one to watch.

I like it that way, and so do those who keep multiple disks on hand and swap them in as needed. With the TiVo way, if the external disk is removed, you're hosed until it's replaced and you can't add a different disk. I'll agree that there are disadvantages too, but overall I prefer the DirecTV approach.
I understand it's by opinion, but based on mine, it should be just like an external disk to a computer, you add it on, it would only store data (recording). If filled up, buy a new one, and plug it in. Later when you want to watch things on it, plug it back in.

[stevel]

Well, TiVo's doesn't work that way on the S3.

[TonyD79]

I don't want to delete the whole folder yet. Just one and then go to next one to watch.

Coming soon to a national release is the ability to just hit the red button to delete something in the list.

There is also group play, where you can hit play on the folder and it will remember what you watched and where you were next time you go in.

Anyway, I don't understand what you were saying. Deleting single items out of the folder is easy.


I understand it's by opinion, but based on mine, it should be just like an external disk to a computer, you add it on, it would only store data (recording). If filled up, buy a new one, and plug it in. Later when you want to watch things on it, plug it back in.

The reason it is done that way is because you could distribute programming all over the place. This is the new industry standard for add-on disks. Not just a D* thing.

Although as far as I can tell, you can do exactly what you are saying. The only thing that won't work is that it will not store on the internal disk as well as the external. You can fill up a disk, swap out a new one and go back to the old one later. I just don't think it is hot swap.

BTW, you should go to www.dbstalk.com. I think you could learn a few tricks.

[Martyp]

Well have the new hd dvr here along with the dirctv dvr with tivo. I have both of them hooked up and miss the down arrow to switch tuners . Some days when I am just laying around around on a satruday it as nice to sat but on discovery and use the other tuner to flip channels. Then just flop back and forth between two shows.

But like being able to record 4 shows at a time now and the ablity to record ove the air hd wich is more then are directv . Which is missing channel 9 hd or 9.1 as it is over the air

[Cubfan]

No issues here. Don't have "bloops" and the antenna guy.

Have a fast menu and guide, reliable recordings, no bugs or reboots (so far). Wish I could say the same about my recent experience with the DirecTivo.

Oh, and now I have my "local" channels all in HD, including Cubs games.

[Arcady]

You have local channels in semi-HD, but not all of them.

I have a $2 antenna from 1964 that gets the same stuff, but in better quality.

[Howie]

You have local channels in semi-HD, but not all of them.

I have a $2 antenna from 1964 that gets the same stuff, but in better quality.

I'll bet you couldn't tell the difference between your $2 OTA and D* M4 HD. I can't.

[TonyD79]

You have local channels in semi-HD, but not all of them.

I have a $2 antenna from 1964 that gets the same stuff, but in better quality.

I don't see an MPEG4 capable box in your sig. How do you know what the MPEG4 quality is or isn't? Though it doesn't stop you from chiming in on this every time you get a chance?

[madbeachcat]

Just have to throw my 2 cents in. I had the HR10-250 for about a year and a half, and loved it. But when we moved last year, I decided to go with the HR20.

It's definitely different, but IMHO it is a little bit better. I do miss DLB, but I love having a 90 min buffer. It has never missed a recording. ( The only problem I have had is that sometimes it records shows from a series link that it should not record. Messed up guide data? )

No cute little sounds, but I can live with that. Number one on my list of things I like though is the speed. I always hated how my Tivo would take so long to do anything. The HR20 just zips through tasks that would render my Tivo useless for 2 or 3 minutes.

Plus, a big driver for the change for me was HD locals and now all of the new channels upcoming. If the interface is the most important thing for you, the by all means stay with Dtivo and hope for a new MPEG4 DTivo, but if content is what's important to you consider the HR20.

[gsslug]

I've had mine a few weeks now. I miss the ease of use of the TIVO interface. Ordering PPV movies is a pain unless I'm missing something. First you buy it and then you have to record it. Two separate procedures. No buy and record option like TIVO.

Making changes to "season passes" is more difficult.

And then there is the occasional audio dropouts. If I was a new DVR user and never had a TIVO I probably would be happy. But while I've gotten use to it I miss my TIVO.

[stevel]

Note that with the HR20 and PPV, you don't pay for a PPV until you watch it. I am not sure about the buy/record thing since I have not done this myself, but I don't think it's that complicated.

[bigpuma]

Note that with the HR20 and PPV, you don't pay for a PPV until you watch it. I am not sure about the buy/record thing since I have not done this myself, but I don't think it's that complicated.

Right it's actually a better way to do PPV where you record it first then you can choose to watch it anytime and buy it only if you watch it.

[HiDefGator]

Right it's actually a better way to do PPV where you record it first then you can choose to watch it anytime and buy it only if you watch it.

Really? This is news to me. Maybe I haven't bought a PPV on my HR20 yet. So I can record all the PPV movies for free but then I have to agree to pay for it if\when I watch it? Can I still watch it multiple times?

[bigpuma]

Really? This is news to me. Maybe I haven't bought a PPV on my HR20 yet. So I can record all the PPV movies for free but then I have to agree to pay for it if\when I watch it? Can I still watch it multiple times?

I believe so although they seem to have added an expiration date to the PPVs so you might have to watch it before the expiration date. I really haven't watched that many PPVs but being able to record them and not pay is nice so we always record a few things in case we decide to watch a movie sometime.

[samo]

Really? This is news to me. Maybe I haven't bought a PPV on my HR20 yet. So I can record all the PPV movies for free but then I have to agree to pay for it if\when I watch it? Can I still watch it multiple times?
After you paid for it you can watch it as many times as you want and keep it on your machine for as long as you want.
You have a choice of "buy" or "record" that may be confusing for some.
If you "buy", the PPV channel opens up for 24 hrs, so you can schedule recording at any time you prefer or watch it right away (if movie will start in a few minutes, obviously, you don't want to watch from the middle of the movie).
If you select "record", then movie will record at scheduled time, but you will not be charged unless you select it to play and confirm that you want to pay for it.
It will sit on your DVR for 30 to 45 days and if you don't buy it - it will just erase after the set time. I record all the PPV that I potentially want to watch, but quite often I let it expire because by the time I ready to watch it, it already scheduled to be on HBO or Starz within few weeks.

[bigpuma]

After you paid for it you can watch it as many times as you want and keep it on your machine for as long as you want.
You have a choice of "buy" or "record" that may be confusing for some.
If you "buy", the PPV channel opens up for 24 hrs, so you can schedule recording at any time you prefer or watch it right away (if movie will start in a few minutes, obviously, you don't want to watch from the middle of the movie).
If you select "record", then movie will record at scheduled time, but you will not be charged unless you select it to play and confirm that you want to pay for it.
It will sit on your DVR for 30 to 45 days and if you don't buy it - it will just erase after the set time. I record all the PPV that I potentially want to watch, but quite often I let it expire because by the time I ready to watch it, it already scheduled to be on HBO or Starz within few weeks.

Thanks for the info. I wasn't sure if the expiration dates were just until you purchased the PPV. It's good to know you can keep it after you buy it. I do like this way of implementing PPVs and I am much more likely to buy them in the future.

[pcdoc]

As most others, I am considering the switch to the HR20. I have 5 DVR's and 1 receiver with DirecTV including 2 HR10's. I am also considering going to FIOS when it is available in my area, but in order to keep my family happy with 5 DVR's, I would have to make quite an initial investment to switch.

The only thing really holding me back is the picture quality of DirecTV. I have heard some mention the quality of HD in MPEG4 as compared to MPEG2, but I did not get a feeling for which one is better, or if there is a difference. So, to get to my question, is the HD MPEG4 picture better than what I am getting now in MPEG2 on my HR10s?

Lastly, does anyone know what the early termination fee for leaving D* is?

Thanks.

[jimb726]

Lastly, does anyone know what the early termination fee for leaving D* is?

Thanks.


If I am not mistaken it is either 12.95 ro 13.95 a month for each month remaining on your commitment.

[Cruzan]

Were any of you hr20 users heavy wishlist users on the Tivo? I am, and all I've been able to glean from the forums is that I would miss a lot on the HR20. What does that mean exactly?

For example, I have wishlists to pick up any HD tennis, HD SF movies, Simpsons reruns on any channel, any movie with Uma in it, and many more. How would this work on the HR 20?

[Fahtrim]

I like the HR20. In my opinion, the speed and the sound (surround) are both better on the HR20.

I still have my HR10 as well, but since the auto correct out of fast forward showed up on the HR20, the HR10 has been getting less use. Full surround sound in the theater room is a big deal to me.

Remote booking is going to be awesome as well.

[HiDefGator]

, HD SF movies,

I give up. What is an HD SF movie?

[guins]

I give up. What is an HD SF movie?


my guess.....hi-def sci-fi. :cool:

[eddieras99]

I like the HR20. In my opinion, the speed and the sound (surround) are both better on the HR20.

I still have my HR10 as well, but since the auto correct out of fast forward showed up on the HR20, the HR10 has been getting less use. Full surround sound in the theater room is a big deal to me.

Remote booking is going to be awesome as well.

the HR10 outputs in dolby digital, but you're saying the sound on the hr20 is better than that of the hr10?? interesting,. anyone else find this?

[Billy66]

To me, the sound is the same. I don't notice a sound improvement on the HR20 vs. the HR10. I don't think there is one.

[Cruzan]

my guess.....hi-def sci-fi. :cool:

Excellent guess.

So, any ex-Tivo wishlist users on their experiences with the HR20?

[joelq]

Keep your HR10 until:
1. Quality of D's HD content improves (maybe 2015!)
2. HR20 includes dual buffers (again, maybe 2015)

I'm in no rush to get more garbage. Can't wait to see the posts complaining about how poor the new HD channels are.

There again with the dual buffers! Am I the only one that thinks the dual buffers are woefully overrated? The vast majority of the times that I'm watching something, I've already got something recording on one tuner which makes the dual buffers useless. Unless, I guess, I'm recording many more shows than the typical user, which I seriously doubt.

I think this is another one of those red herrings - it isn't as a big a deal as many people make it out to be!

[stevel]

Excellent guess.

So, any ex-Tivo wishlist users on their experiences with the HR20?

I haven't done this myself, but you can set up "autorecord" searches by person or keyword. Doesn't seem to work well with title. However, there's a very nasty bug across some types of DirecTV receiver, including the HR20, in that it doesn't know what channels you actually receive and, unlike the HR10, there's no way to tell it. So searches find shows that are on channels you don't get, making an autorecord search rather useless. This is supposed to be fixed, but when, I don't know.

If you don't want to autorecord but just see what matches, the HR20 saves the past few searches you did so you can rerun them.

[HiDefGator]

There again with the dual buffers! Am I the only one that thinks the dual buffers are woefully overrated? The vast majority of the times that I'm watching something, I've already got something recording on one tuner which makes the dual buffers useless. Unless, I guess, I'm recording many more shows than the typical user, which I seriously doubt.

I think this is another one of those red herrings - it isn't as a big a deal as many people make it out to be!

Couldn't agree with you more. I doubt most people would even realize it was a feature if they didn't read this forum.

[CosmoKramer]

There again with the dual buffers! Am I the only one that thinks the dual buffers are woefully overrated? The vast majority of the times that I'm watching something, I've already got something recording on one tuner which makes the dual buffers useless. Unless, I guess, I'm recording many more shows than the typical user, which I seriously doubt.

I think this is another one of those red herrings - it isn't as a big a deal as many people make it out to be!

Yes, you are minority that thinks DLB is overrated. If you watched sports then you would see why it is important. The work around for the HR20 is a joke at best and is a oversight by D*.

Getting a free upgrade to the HR20 before football season starts and hope I do not pull my hair out over it!

[Cubfan]

Not only is my HDTivo superior, so is my Sony Betamax. Too bad they were both ridiculously expensive and my Tivo will soon join the Beta in extinction. The channel guide on the Tivo will soon look like the Gamecube aisle at the video store when compared to the guide on my HR20.

Oh, the humanity!

[stevmead]

Yes, you are minority that thinks DLB is overrated. If you watched sports then you would see why it is important. The work around for the HR20 is a joke at best and is a oversight by D*.




+1

[JimSpence]

The one thing I will miss on the HR20 is the TiVo style guide. I much prefer it over the DirecTV grid style. But, then the guide really shouldn't be needed that often, should it? Since the HR20 is the only MPEG4 game in town, I'll learn to cope. :)

[joelq]

Yes, you are minority that thinks DLB is overrated. If you watched sports then you would see why it is important. The work around for the HR20 is a joke at best and is a oversight by D*.

Getting a free upgrade to the HR20 before football season starts and hope I do not pull my hair out over it!

I understand that use case, and trust me, I do watch a lot of sports. I'm just saying that in practice, I rarely have both tuners available for the entire time I'm watching something.

I don't consider a feature beneficial if I have to work around my normal usage habits (i.e., stop a recording to free up a buffer, etc.) in order to use the feature.

Again, maybe I just have more recordings going on than most, but I doubt it.

[Plamar]

Wait till you all see the VOD (Video on Demand). You will ditch your 10-250 like a dirty shirt! And the new HD channels.

[timb2112]

Okay, I am that straight C average person when it comes to HD TIVO. I do know I love the TIVO format, I love the HD channels, I am so-so about Direct- TV, and I can not stand Comcast. I have an old HR10-250 and I know it is about to go the way of the dodo bird in 2008. Looks like I am going to have to upgrade to the HR20. So to the die hard TIVO fans out there, how do you like the HR20 so far? Are there any options to “Having my Cake and eating it too?”

As a TiVo user for more than 2 years, I have to say THE HR20 RULES!!!

It's much faster, and the networking feature is awesome. I can listen to my entire music collection off my computer's hard drive through my surround system. I have the HR20 wired into my router and it interfaces with Windows Media Player 11 on my computer. Incredible! This alone in my opinion makes the switch worth it.

There are other small, little features that make it superior as well, but I don't feel like typing them out right now.

I called D* and they gave me the HR20, dish, install, and HD package (12 months) for free plus a $10 credit for 12 months. All I had to pay was $20.

I sold my HR10250 for $200 on eBay. A win-win situation, and the new HD channels will be launched SOON! (And will not be seen on the HR10250)

:up:

[timb2112]

That's because we aren't allowed to on here, but I will do it now anyway.

I LOVE MY HR20! I am a raving fan.

I am too! My wife can use it with NO problems! I think that says it all.

Networking for music....The HR10 is no competition there.

:up:

[CosmoKramer]

I understand that use case, and trust me, I do watch a lot of sports. I'm just saying that in practice, I rarely have both tuners available for the entire time I'm watching something.

I don't consider a feature beneficial if I have to work around my normal usage habits (i.e., stop a recording to free up a buffer, etc.) in order to use the feature.

Again, maybe I just have more recordings going on than most, but I doubt it.

What the Heck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Come on give me a break that is a lame, stop recording shows that you will not ever get around to watching. Or you have way to much time on your hands? I do not that is why I try to watch two sporting events at the same time.

DLB is a great feature that does not give D* revenue so they rather work on VOD for the revenue stream. I understand $$$ rules but do not sugar coat the issue that just because it does not effect me it is ok.

It is a big oversight on D* part and their will more than I that will look elsewhere.

[RS4]

What the Heck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Come on give me a break that is a lame, stop recording shows that you will not ever get around to watching. Or you have way to much time on your hands? I do not that is why I try to watch two sporting events at the same time.

DLB is a great feature that does not give D* revenue so they rather work on VOD for the revenue stream. I understand $$$ rules but do not sugar coat the issue that just because it does not effect me it is ok.

It is a big oversight on D* part and their will more than I that will look elsewhere.

Gee, how can that be an oversight? :eek: According to all of our HR20 friends, DirecTV is listening to all of their concerns and making the HR20 box the best dvr yet. :D

I'm shocked that you think they are only thinking about money :confused:

[Billy66]

RS4 and his general attitude aside, I think "oversight" is a generous word here. Oversight implies some sort of mistake. This, to me, was a decision that they made. Not a decision that I would make or that I love, but a decision none the less.

[ebockelman]

I am too! My wife can use it with NO problems! I think that says it all.

Networking for music....The HR10 is no competition there.

:up:

Welcome to the DirecTivos of 2003.

[whitepelican]

Networking for music....The HR10 is no competition there.


I suppose, except for those folks like me who listen to music over the network on the HR10 every day.

[kmill14]

I will not be pleased with the HR-20 until I can get two things with it:

1. The ability to record "season passes" without having to constantly delete repeats that continually get recorded. Say what you want about speed, the one critical feature to any DVR I own is its ability to record shows without me having to look over its shoulder every day. Tivo does it, HR-20 does not. Say what you want, but the Series Link does not hold the jock of Tivo's Season Pass.

2. Dual Live Buffer - I love this for NFLST, but this is not the only reason I use it. I like to flip back and forth between shows, and periodically, I like to rewind those shows to see what I missed. Can't do that with HR-20 unless I set one up to record. Thats a lot of extra work for me considering I may do this every hour or half hour for an entire evening.

[Billy66]

Welcome to the DirecTivos of 2003.

Not quite.

Music and Photos didn't come to SA TiVo's until 2004, and then finally, by hack to the S2 DTivo's in '05.

In 2003 we were doing it with our modded Xboxen. :D

[stevel]

I haven't had a problem with duplicate shows on my HR20. However, the HR20 doesn't have TiVo's "28 day rule" so if you delete a show, it's eligible for rerecording immediately.

[alwayscool]

You have local channels in semi-HD, but not all of them.

I have a $2 antenna from 1964 that gets the same stuff, but in better quality.

What he said!

I have an OTA antenna and it blows away ANY HD channel D* has to offer in picture quality.

[whitepelican]

Music and Photos didn't come to SA TiVo's until 2004, and then finally, by hack to the S2 DTivo's in '05.

If you want to get technical, it was late 2004 when some enterprising folks learned how to load v4.0 software from the SAs onto DirecTivos, thus enabling the HMO and MRV on the DirecTivo. There's an "official" thread at DDB discussing it in Nov. 04.

[watchdogfl]

There again with the dual buffers! Am I the only one that thinks the dual buffers are woefully overrated? The vast majority of the times that I'm watching something, I've already got something recording on one tuner which makes the dual buffers useless. Unless, I guess, I'm recording many more shows than the typical user, which I seriously doubt.

I think this is another one of those red herrings - it isn't as a big a deal as many people make it out to be!

No... you are not the only one... YES... you are in the minority, at least based on my experience. BUT... I run (make that USED to run) in the NFL Sunday Ticket crowd. Dual Buffers made watching 2 games AWESOME. Better yet, you could concentrate on one and use the other to surf between various other games or keep it on the red zone channel.

DO NOT give me that lame excuse of recording two games. That totaly defeats the flexibility and freedom of live dual buffers.

Now for my 2 cents on the HR20 vs. HD Tivo. I left DirecTV for cable before the HD Tivo came out. I was fed up with their outragous leased equipment costs and their 2 year commitments everytime you did anything hardware related. After 11 years of platinum packages and NFL sunday tickets they finally got too greedy for me.

I hooked up Cable and ran DirecTV side by side in my home for a month. The HD video quality was noticably better on cable. As seen by me and several of my friends. Cable required no contract and I knew I coudl pick up a variety of tivo products. I hooked up two S2 DT Tivos and let me tell you that MRV was a hit from day one. I dropped Directv a few days after that.

I picked up an HD Tivo a month ago and have been sublimely happy with it. It is Tivo with HD and awesome quality. MRV will be here for it before end of year. My friend recently got an HR20 and we did some comparison viewing and playing. His only regret is that he is such a huge soccer fan that he had to go with directv because our cable company did not carry setanta (sp?). We decided that out of a 10 point review we would give the Tivo a 9 (until MRV and T2G are released which would be a 10) and the HR20 a 7. Both do the same job but you get more reliablity from season passes and better development and features on the Tivo... but you pay for that, monthly.

Basically if all you care about is every HD channel under the sun... you have to go HR20. If you are pretty mainstream about what you watch in HD, SDV will not bother you 90% of the time. And anyone who says SDV will break Tivo S3 boxes has not read the news. SDV may impact you for a short time, 1 or 2 fiscal quarters, but Tivo has a fix, cable labs has already said it will allow work arounds for this (i.e. usb dongle) and Tivo will support it. And if you don't believe that, just go back and read all the naysayers that said S3 would never get MRV or T2G. Well guess what, they're in Beta and will be out in November.

So... go with the HR20 if you are not picky about HD video quality and don't mind slightly less functionality and slightly less UI saviness.

Go with HD Tivo if you like your cable company line-up, want the top of the line DVR product, and want to watch any show you record on any of your DVR's, or your laptop, or ipod, etc.

[Frank_M]

I'm happy with my two HR20's right now, I do like the speed, and I can be a bit patient with them fixing the autorecord bug.

The thing I miss most is Suggestions. I know people here mostly dismiss it, but I used it a lot. I don't necessarily want to have season passes for shows that I like to watch on occassion (M*A*S*H, Simpsons, etc) but I like being able to rate them so that I normally get a few of them recorded. Same thing with some of the shows on the travel channel, and even the occassional movie.

But otherwise, I like the unit very much.

[davahad]

Had the HR20 for about a week now so haven't done many recordings or series recordings yet which is most important to me in a DVR.

However, I can say that the HR20 30 Second Slip (skip) sucks. I've watched a couple of recordings using this and it takes about 10 seconds to skip 2:30 minutes of commercials (yes that's only 5 button presses) where the HR10-250 takes around 3 seconds and they happen as fast as you can press the 30 Second skip button. It's also annoying having to watch commercials slip by so slowly and I now miss the HR10-250's 30 second skip.

I will continue using both of them until the HR20 proves reliable at not missing recordings.

[Jebberwocky!]

Had the HR20 for about a week now so haven't done many recordings or series recordings yet which is most important to me in a DVR.

However, I can say that the HR20 30 Second Slip (skip) sucks. I've watched a couple of recordings using this and it takes about 10 seconds to skip 2:30 minutes of commercials (yes that's only 5 button presses) where the HR10-250 takes around 3 seconds and they happen as fast as you can press the 30 Second skip button. It's also annoying having to watch commercials slip by so slowly and I now miss the HR10-250's 30 second skip.

I will continue using both of them until the HR20 proves reliable at not missing recordings.


I like it - you can press the 30 sec and the number of times you pressed it shows up as a number to let you know. Then if you see the show come on you hit play and it backup us a bit.

I never used the 30 sec skip on the 10-250, I preferred to use FF.

[RS4]

I like it - you can press the 30 sec and the number of times you pressed it shows up as a number to let you know. Then if you see the show come on you hit play and it backup us a bit.

I never used the 30 sec skip on the 10-250, I preferred to use FF.

It's obvious you never used the 30-sec skip. If so, you would not like the 30-sce slip on the HR20.

[RS4]

I'm happy with my two HR20's right now, I do like the speed, and I can be a bit patient with them fixing the autorecord bug.




I hope you have a lot of patience. The box has been out for over a year and the major feature still doesn't work.

[Jebberwocky!]

It's obvious you never used the 30-sec skip. If so, you would not like the 30-sce slip on the HR20.


I used it plenty, I prefer to FF. The HR 20's way is a nice mix of the two.

The only obivious thing is your inability to make or accept changes ;)

So far I like what I've worked with. Time will tell me if it is ready for prime time.

[Billy66]

If I used it for commercial skipping I think I would like the skip better, but for me the only time I use it is in between plays in football so I find the slip a bit better because the play gap is 25 seconds and the skip 30 so it helps me not go into the next play as often.

If I used it for commercials it would be too slow.

[guins]

I've had my HR20 for a week and a half and I've given a fair chance to impress me and for me to get used to it. Disclosure: I've had TiVo for many years, but I was open to new ideas and ways of doing things.

Overall the HR-20 is a serviceable DVR product if NOT FOR THE for the pixelation. Damn some recorded programs get totally ruined by pixelation. Thank God I have Dtivos to duplicate record shows because I would never rely on the HR20. I thought software upgrades had fixed this probelm.

Another thing that sucks is no dual live buffers. If you are a sports fan these are must. That is ususally the only time I watch live tv and DLBs are a nice feature. I also do not like the small tv screen that pops up on the menus. I wish you could turn that off. The 30 second skip blows and the jump to tick is lame too.

There are some good improvements that would be nice in a TiVo....recording a show is fast, menus are fast, and recording in HD is the biggest plus. There are other enhancements but they are minimal.

I cannot believe how bad the pixelation is. And it lasts and lasts.....not just a second or two....which is what I expected when reading about the problem beforehand. It will totally ruin a recording rendering it unwatchable or even listenable. Bad!

Please TiVo and Directv get back together and make a worthy D* HD box!!!

[Indiana627]

I've had an HR20 for over 3 months now and never since a recording with pixelation. Haven't had any issues yet. I used Tivo for 3+ years prior (still have a Tivo upstairs).

[stevel]

I can't tell any difference in picture between my HR20 and HR10. No more or less "pixelation". I have seen signs of over-compression on some SD channels, but that's not the box's fault.

[RS4]

I used it plenty, I prefer to FF. The HR 20's way is a nice mix of the two.

The only obivious thing is your inability to make or accept changes ;)

So far I like what I've worked with. Time will tell me if it is ready for prime time.

In my mind, this is just another poor imitation of a great Tivo feature. The commercials on many of the channels (like Discovery) are constantly repeated. Once I've seen them, I'm not interested in viewing them and/or watching them pass by the screen again. Being able to press the button to skip through them quickly is the ultimate convenience. This is one of the major reasons I prefer Tivo.

Yes, I admit it. I think the Tivo features are well thought out and meets my viewing habits the best of anything that I've read about and/or seen. The only HR20 feature that I would be even remotely interested in (other then mpeg4) is the VOD. But, I'll wait and see what happens. I certainly don't want the HR20 with another 2-year commitment.

[Jebberwocky!]

In my mind, this is just another poor imitation of a great Tivo feature. The commercials on many of the channels (like Discovery) are constantly repeated. Once I've seen them, I'm not interested in viewing them and/or watching them pass by the screen again. Being able to press the button to skip through them quickly is the ultimate convenience. This is one of the major reasons I prefer Tivo.

Yes, I admit it. I think the Tivo features are well thought out and meets my viewing habits the best of anything that I've read about and/or seen. The only HR20 feature that I would be even remotely interested in (other then mpeg4) is the VOD. But, I'll wait and see what happens. I certainly don't want the HR20 with another 2-year commitment.


is the 2 year committment the real deal killer for you?

[Billy66]

Actually RS4 it's not a feature of TiVo. It's a back door code that the user must enable. It was a feature of ReplayTV, but TiVo was too chicken to implement it out of the box.

I like the skip too, but TiVo only "kind of" gave it to you after everyone else shamed them into it.

[milominderbinder]

...Overall the HR-20 is a serviceable DVR product if NOT FOR THE for the pixelation...
Guins, have you reported this in the Issues threads at dbstalk.com? The reason I ask is that I just did a search for pixellation and pixelation in those threads and see only one report but it states that it might have been due to weather.

If you are having a problem, the developers need the details as to channel, program, date, and time, signal strengths, etc. Also, was it live TV or a recording, just playing or using trickplay? With good info, they can hunt it down. Please click here to report for 0x18a:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=95608

If it is an ongoing problem, please post a picture if you can. It seems that most report, as you have seen above, that the HR10 and HR20 pictures are very comparable. The MPG2 is not nearly as good as the MPEG4 that will be coming shortly.

Please let your voice be heard.

- Craig

[RS4]

is the 2 year committment the real deal killer for you?

Yes, it is for now. DirecTV doesn't have a product that I want to sign up for another 2 years and they will not even let me try it out.

I've read enough about the HR20 to have a strong feeling I won't like it. I love the way the Tivo works and that is more important to me then where I get the video. So, I'm not willing to fork over $300 just to try out a box that I have strong doubts about.

I don't like the picture showing while I am in the menus. I don't like the way the search and auto record features work. I don't like not having a way to filter channels, and I certainly don't like the remote, although I'm sure I can program it into my current all-in-one remote.

I do like the vod and mpeg4 and would love to at least give it a try, but not if I have to sign up for 2 years.

[Jebberwocky!]

I look at it a little different - lets say I had cable w/o any committment. If I bought a Tivo S3 for $500, that is money I spent up front.

When I bought my 10-250's I paid $800, $350 & $300 for them, again money spent upfront.

They gave me the 20's (nothing up front) but make me committ to 2 years. If I decide to leave after a few months and do something else, I pay at that point but I'm still ahead of the game.

[coachO]

I really dislike the HR20. I am sure I could easily list 20 things I dont like about it but why waste the time - to each his own.

Bottom line is that the first one they sent me is in my basement sitting on the floor, the 2nd one is in my son's room connected with only one sat line. He only uses it to record one program and he is sure he got stuck with the old tivo and wants to know why he cant get one like I have, lol.

[guins]

Guins, have you reported this in the Issues threads at dbstalk.com? The reason I ask is that I just did a search for pixellation and pixelation in those threads and see only one report but it states that it might have been due to weather.

If you are having a problem, the developers need the details as to channel, program, date, and time, signal strengths, etc. Also, was it live TV or a recording, just playing or using trickplay? With good info, they can hunt it down. Please click here to report for 0x18a:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=95608

If it is an ongoing problem, please post a picture if you can. It seems that most report, as you have seen above, that the HR10 and HR20 pictures are very comparable. The MPG2 is not nearly as good as the MPEG4 that will be coming shortly.

Please let your voice be heard.

- Craig

No I have not reported it but I will.

The last two incidents that I remember were a recording of the Miami / Oklahoma football game. I think that was an ABC game so I was recording HD off the bird.

Also, several times it has happened on 'The Tonight Show' which is also recorded off the bird.

In fact I have not been recording OTA since my locals are in HD.

This is not minor pixelation. It is so bad that you wouldn't recoginize the video (i.e. you couldn't guess what you were watching) or hear any audio. And it lasts for 10 or 15 minutes virtually ruining your recording.

It does not seem to happen much during live tv, which I rarely watch except for HD Sporting events. Although it has happened during live events, but does not last as long or I flip to OTA if I can to see if that helps.

It is weird but it seems maybe FFwding triggers it like when a tape gets stuck in a VCR after you are ffwding and there is slack or something. I know that is not it, but that is what it feels like when you are buzzing through a taped program. Because with the Miaimi/OU game and The Tonight Show, these are programs that I ffwd'ed through to browse the program. I did not start at the beginning and just let it play and skip commercials.

[guins]

Here is the bottomline on the HR-20......if someone came into my house and stole my HR-20, would I be pissed off? Sure. But if someone took my zippered Hughes DTivos, they would be dead!!!!

The HR-20 will not make you want to run out and upgrade all of your TiVos, quite the contrary. It will make you appreicate your TiVo all the more!

Very unfortunate considering the growth of HDTV (finally), that we don't have a better HD D* product.

[Indiana627]

The HR-20 will not make you want to run out and upgrade all of your TiVos, quite the contrary. It will make you appreicate your TiVo all the more!.
It doesn't make me appreciate my Tivos anymore. It doesn't make me want to unbox my HR10 sitting in the basement storage at all. Both get the job done IMHO.

[badmonkey]

It doesn't make me appreciate my Tivos anymore. It doesn't make me want to unbox my HR10 sitting in the basement storage at all. Both get the job done IMHO.

I couldn't agree more... I have 3 HR10's in boxes since they were replaced with HR20's. In my opinion, they both work equally well. And - again, this is only my opinion - the interface on the HR20 is much cleaner and more functional.

[Jebberwocky!]

the interface on the HR20 is much cleaner and more functional.

Agree - looks much more "current" vs. the dated TIVO menus

[RS4]

I look at it a little different - lets say I had cable w/o any committment. If I bought a Tivo S3 for $500, that is money I spent up front.

When I bought my 10-250's I paid $800, $350 & $300 for them, again money spent upfront.

They gave me the 20's (nothing up front) but make me committ to 2 years. If I decide to leave after a few months and do something else, I pay at that point but I'm still ahead of the game.

I certainly don't want to encourage a company that I think is offering a product of lesser quality then what I currently enjoy. I want DirecTV to offer products that have a level of enjoyment that is equivalent or better then the current offerings.

I feel they have settled for lesser quality then the Tivos. The last thing I want to do is give them $300 for a product I don't like. Instead, I feel I send them a stronger message by refusing to sign the 2-year contract without a home trial. If enough other people do the same thing, then maybe DirecTV will be encouraged to offer a Tivo product.

I think the best way to let a company know you don't like what they are offering is to let them know via communications (email, phone call, etc) and then through the wallet.

DirecTV made this mess by switching to mpeg4 HD. Like a lot of other people, I paid big bucks for the HR10-250 and the other DTivos. Now, they're telling me that I have to shell out $300 if I don't like their new box. In my opinion, they should be offering free upgrades with either a home trial or no commitment. Until then, I'll wait and see what happens.

I'm glad there are folks who like the HR20, but it appears to me that a large number of Tivo users have a take-it or leave-it attitude. I can't understand why a year after this product is on the market and the reputation of something less then stellar is DirecTV not more accommodating to its customers?

[Billy66]

DirecTV made this mess by switching to mpeg4 HD. Like a lot of other people, I paid big bucks for the HR10-250 and the other DTivos. Now, they're telling me that I have to shell out $300 if I don't like their new box. In my opinion, they should be offering free upgrades with either a home trial or no commitment. Until then, I'll wait and see what happens.



I don't think DirecTv has a mess. They are rolling out many new channels after a successful satellite launch and are likely not hemorrhaging customers at the rate TiVo is.

Your activity or inactivity means nothing to DirecTv. Right now they need all the time they can get to service the customers who do want to switch, their need is urgent and your actions allow DirecTv that time. In the meantime, you're subscribed to all of your programming including paying every cent for HD that someone with an HR20 is paying. you aren't withholding anything from them. You just seem to be content to get less programming for the same money and somehow think you're sending a message to DirecTv? :confused:

[RS4]

I don't think DirecTv has a mess. They are rolling out many new channels after a successful satellite launch and are likely not hemorrhaging customers at the rate TiVo is.

Your activity or inactivity means nothing to DirecTv. Right now they need all the time they can get to service the customers who do want to switch, their need is urgent and your actions allow DirecTv that time. In the meantime, you're subscribed to all of your programming including paying every cent for HD that someone with an HR20 is paying. you aren't withholding anything from them. You just seem to be content to get less programming for the same money and somehow think you're sending a message to DirecTv? :confused:

Actually no, I don't have the HD package. I thought it was way over priced and told them so when I canceled it. I canceled NFLST this year because I had decided that $200 was my price point. Once again I let them know when I canceled it why. I refused the HR20 even though it was technically free because they would not allow me to test it at home unless I signed up for a 2-year contact. After their latest general price increase, I stopped HBO and started using Netflix. Again, I let them know why. So, I consider myself to be quite active in letting DirecTV know when I don't like their service and/or products.

Yes, you could absolutely be correct. DirecTV probably doesn't care at all about me. But perhaps if enough others are doing the same thing, they will start caring. Who knows? Time will tell.

I have been a DirecTV customer since they first came out. I want to stay that way. However, I will not be railroaded into products and services that I think are inferior. I'm probably more vocal than others, but at least I feel better that my voice is being heard - even if it is a minority.

DirecTV was a service that I was happy to send friends and relatives to - especially with the DTivos. Now, the best I can say is that I persuaded a guy in the office to stay with Comcast because DirecTV is no longer on my recommendation list.

[Billy66]

Fair enough RS4. I surely don't begrudge you your choice and your stated actions seem to support.

[rb5505]

Being able to press the button to skip through them quickly is the ultimate convenience. This is one of the major reasons I prefer Tivo.

perfect summary of my apprehension. my favorite tivo feature is the 30 second instant skip. hr20 is coming later this month...i hope to "adjust" asap.

[RS4]

perfect summary of my apprehension. my favorite tivo feature is the 30 second instant skip. hr20 is coming later this month...i hope to "adjust" asap.


Good luck - I hope you enjoy it. The more I read about it, the more I realize I wouldn't like it at all.

[ebonovic]

perfect summary of my apprehension. my favorite tivo feature is the 30 second instant skip. hr20 is coming later this month...i hope to "adjust" asap.

Umm... where are you hearing that?

[RS4]

Umm... where are you hearing that?

Earl, I think you're getting a little paranoid - I believe he's saying that he's getting an HR20 latter in the month and hopes he can get used to it's rendition of the 30-sec skip. :p - i.e he hopes he can 'adjust' to the way that DirecTV has programmed it in their version of the dvr. :cool:

[coachO]

Bad Monkey, we should trade boxes in the basement. Customer Retention told me that I owned one of my HR20s (sitting in a box in the basement) since it was a replacment for my HR10; however, I dont believe them.

Three things that really drove me crazy on the HR20; that 30 second slip, no dual buffers, hold the button for slow motion. They just ruined my style of watching football games. I did like the much much quicker operating system though.

I still can't believe I paid for the replacement plan all these years and I got an HR20 as the result. I tried the HR20 and didn't like it but I still got a 2 year extension, then I spent over $100 fixing my HR10 myself, go figure...

[wolflord11]

What do I think of the HR20? I love it! :D

There, now to go sit in the corner and wait for the Tivo Goons to come and beat me up. Or lock me away until i see the error of my ways :D

[wilbur_the_goose]

I was a D*/TiVo user since the first week the DSR-6000 came out. I bought 2 HR10-250's when they were $999 each.

I've had my HR20-700 for about 6 months and love them so much that I sold both my HR10-250's on eBay.

And tomorrow (9/19), I'll probably have a TON of HD to watch along with Video on Demand*, Media Sharing*, and soon, Remote Booking.

* - These are HR20 "Cutting Edge" features that a number of customers are acceptance 'testing'.

The HR20 has blown my socks off.

And I love TiVo - to me the HR20 is just better.

(and I've been at TCF since '01, with a different username. I still remember being a beta tester on the DSR-6000 when the second tuner was first activated.)

[joed32]

Bad Monkey, we should trade boxes in the basement. Customer Retention told me that I owned one of my HR20s (sitting in a box in the basement) since it was a replacment for my HR10; however, I dont believe them.

Three things that really drove me crazy on the HR20; that 30 second slip, no dual buffers, hold the button for slow motion. They just ruined my style of watching football games. I did like the much much quicker operating system though.

I still can't believe I paid for the replacement plan all these years and I got an HR20 as the result. I tried the HR20 and didn't like it but I still got a 2 year extension, then I spent over $100 fixing my HR10 myself, go figure...

I thought that if you have the service plan they would replace a receiver without a 2 year commitment. Am I wrong?

[Krookut]

I got the HR20-700 a week ago. Just had the last 6 or 7 recordings show up in the play list, but got a blank screen only when trying to play them. Unplugged it and did a reset and the last recording was ok. I hope this is just a fluke that will not repeat. Other than that I like the box a lot. Moving the HR10 to the bedroom for now.

[wilbur_the_goose]

Krooku,
Probably a fluke - I've never had that happen. Be sure to check out www.dbstalk.com for help if needed.

BTW - Don't get me wrong - TiVo is awesome. In fact, I probably "sold" 6-10 families on it.

You know what's funny- the feature I miss the most is the suggestions; something that many folks just turn off.

[JohnB1000]

I like the HR20, a couple of cool features that TIVO could have (at least DirecTivo) such as playing live TV or a recorded show in the small window while browsing the menu and the fact that the buttons mostly work the same way whatever you are watching

One thing I really miss is the TIVO style guide which can show 12 or so hours ahead of one channel.

[wilbur_the_goose]

John - the HR20 has that feature - Go to guide, scroll left to the channel 'hotspot' and click Info on the remote.

[JohnB1000]

John - the HR20 has that feature - Go to guide, scroll left to the channel 'hotspot' and click Info on the remote.

Thanks, I think I knew that but it's hard to remember. The list is not as clean or easy to use as they Tivo one though where you can see what's on on a page worth of channels and 12 hours forward on the one you are on.

[kmill14]

Well, I have had a couple weeks to use the HR-20 for my NFLST viewing, and I would definitely rate it well below Tivo.

The lack of a Dual Live Buffer of any sort drives me out of my mind. Even if I record one game and want to switch back and forth to another (non-recording) game, it constantly jumps to the end when I switch to the non-recorded game. If there is a work-around for this, I don't know what it is...but I didn't need a work around (or record a game period) to give me the ability to watch multiple games at the same time. I should be able to pause one and flip back to the other if I have 2 tuners. Perhaps this is their work-around for the Tivo '389 patent?

The 30-second slip feature is really 35 seconds with the 2-3 second slip-back. 30 seconds works perfectly for skipping huddles, and 35/32-33 doesn't.

I like the idea of being able to program in your fantasy players (Player Watch) and it tells you (if you have Super Fan and are not on a local channel) when one of your players makes a play of some sort. However, I can't switch back to watch that game unless I am recording it or another game, so its kind of a waste!

I do love the Game Mix channel, but I wish I could limit it to 4 or 6 boxes. I know...wishful thinking.

[RS4]

Krooku,
Probably a fluke - I've never had that happen. Be sure to check out www.dbstalk.com for help if needed.




That is hardly a fluke. Yeah, go over to dbstalk and read about all the others having the same problem.

[Craig540]

John - the HR20 has that feature - Go to guide, scroll left to the channel 'hotspot' and click Info on the remote.

This was the main feature I was missing (TIVO style guide ) thanks you just made my day. The other thing was the dual buffers and the ability to switch between tuners with the down arrow button. Is there a way to switch between tuners.

I am happy I made the switch to the HR20. I got 3 free and DVR service free for 1 year, free hbo/showtime for 6 months.

[coachO]

Wilbur, you seem to have made the transition well. Maybe there are some work arounds for my issues.
1) I like to watch some football plays in slow motion which is easy on Tivo, but I never get the push and hold button right on the HR20
2) I really like the 30 sec skip, but get "tired" of staring at the screen during the HR20 30 sec slip.
3). It seems too easy to watch 2 football games at the same time with my HR10 due to dual buffers and easly with the live tv button on the remote. The hr20 just seems painful
4) To find my list of recorded shows is easy on the tivo, one button, on the HR20 it says MY playlist, then it says go there, then they are in folders instead of listed by recording date and fewer shows are listed on the screen.

I have more that I could list and don't get me wrong, the HR20 does some things I like. OTA seems to have a stronger signal and the interface is much much faster.

I have read all of Milo's extremely helpful posts which eliminated the learning curve for the HR20, so need to send me there.

[Billy66]

Wilbur, you seem to have made the transition well. Maybe there are some work arounds for my issues.
1) I like to watch some football plays in slow motion which is easy on Tivo, but I never get the push and hold button right on the HR20
2) I really like the 30 sec skip, but get "tired" of staring at the screen during the HR20 30 sec slip.
3). It seems too easy to watch 2 football games at the same time with my HR10 due to dual buffers and easly with the live tv button on the remote. The hr20 just seems painful

To me, DLB is the best for football. I think you know the work arounds about recording them both, but for football it's not as seamless as it was with tivo and DLB.

For me, I like the slip over the skip for in between plays, but I know that's personal.


4) To find my list of recorded shows is easy on the tivo, one button, on the HR20 it says MY playlist, then it says go there, then they are in folders instead of listed by recording date and fewer shows are listed on the screen.

Don't hit menu first. The fastest way is to hit the list button. Bam, one button to the playlist (honestly tivo was 2 presses of the tiVo button right?). Now, if you want to change the sort of the playlist, while you're in the list, hit Menu and then choose "Order by" and your order choice will be saved. There are definitely some improvements in this area for you.

Good luck man.

[coachO]

Thanks Billy. It is still going to take some awesome HD channels to intice me to give it a shot again.

[montag]

The other thing was the dual buffers and the ability to switch between tuners with the down arrow button. Is there a way to switch between tuners.
I'd love it if the HR20 had this feature. Anyone?

[bigpuma]

The HR20 does not have DLBs. It is the most requested feature on dbstalk.com.

[milominderbinder]

...The other thing was the dual buffers and the ability to switch between tuners with the down arrow button. Is there a way to switch between tuners...
No. There is a DLB work-around but it is a kludge. Dual Live Buffers is the most requested feature on the HR20. The feature I want most is Channels I Receive.

- Craig

[milominderbinder]

Wilbur, you seem to have made the transition well. Maybe there are some work arounds for my issues.
1) I like to watch some football plays in slow motion which is easy on Tivo, but I never get the push and hold button right on the HR20
2) I really like the 30 sec skip, but get "tired" of staring at the screen during the HR20 30 sec slip.
3). It seems too easy to watch 2 football games at the same time with my HR10 due to dual buffers and easly with the live tv button on the remote. The hr20 just seems painful
4) To find my list of recorded shows is easy on the tivo, one button, on the HR20 it says MY playlist, then it says go there, then they are in folders instead of listed by recording date and fewer shows are listed on the screen...
1) To use Slo-Mo, you have to press & hold the play button for 3 seconds. By then the play is over...
2) I am more bothered by the fact that the 30 second slip is actually 35 seconds.
3) DLB is the #1 requested feature. The HR20 Tips & Tricks (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=72648) has a workaround, not elegant but it works.
4) The LIST button is for MyPlaylist. You also have a hidden option about the sorting.

- Craig

[fasTLane]

3) DLB is the #1 requested feature.
- CraigDual live buffers may be impossible on this unit due to design paramaters, if not illegal.

[Jebberwocky!]

No. There is a DLB work-around but it is a kludge. Dual Live Buffers is the most requested feature on the HR20. The feature I want most is Channels I Receive.

- Craig

with three units hooked up to the same TV, do I have TLB? ;)

[bigpuma]

with three units hooked up to the same TV, do I have TLB? ;)

Yes, but it's not as easy to jump between them. :p

[bigpuma]

Dual live buffers may be impossible on this unit due to design paramaters, if not illegal.

Why would it be illegal? :confused:

[jaypb]

Glad I found this thread. I've had my HR20 for about 3 months now and I currently have 4 10-250's so it's going to take me (as well as the wife) awhile to get used to the things we miss as we *attempt* to migrate from HDtivo to D*DVR technology. I realize that the HDTIVO's aren't infallible or error-proof, but I'm certainly either missing/longing for the following or hoping that D* adds them to the HR20:

1- Is it just me (or maybe it's been discussed and I've missed it) or does anyone else hate the fact that 3X FF speed on the TIVO equated to about 1 minute of show time per second....so you could fly through a :60 minute show in literally one minute (perfect IMHO for SportsCenter, FSN Sports reports, Baseball Tonight,e tc..) whereas the HR20's 3x FF speed equates to about 35-40 seconds of show per second of forwarding....and the 4x FF speed IMHO is just unviewable?

2- The 30 second skip/slip. I've used that since day one.

3- Folder related-I record a LOT of daily/weekly sports shows (Sportrise from CSN 629, Baseball Tonight from ESPN, FSR Baseball report, TWIB from FSN etc...) and what I dislike about the HR20 is that when I scroll to the bottom or even the middle of a group of recordings, watch that show and DELETE it, the menu/playlist defaults back to the FIRST entry in the folder. Is there a way to NOT default back to the first entry in the folder? I'm almost positive that the HDTIVO would just leave me on the recording directly "above" the one I just deleted. Or am I missing a menu function/feature on the HR20....or am I the only one who has 20-30 recordings in a folder at a time?

4- Believe it or not, I miss the clock/timer in the bottom right hand corner. I have the hr20 in my dark basement where I can't see a clock....and I don't like having to hit play or info to see where I am in a recording.

5- Suggestions. I truly use this on a daily basis for everything from Sports shows/events (ESPN News, Coaches shows, College football) to Animation/Kids shows (Family Guy/Arthur/South Park) to my wife's L&O's re-runs on USA etc...

6- The Tivo style guide is something that the wife and I have grown used to using, especially when it comes to scanning HBO-HD and SHO-HD to see what new/good movies are on from Friday-Sunday.

7- Saved searches---is there a limit? I've been using this as a workaround for Wishlists, as I use my wishlists on my Tivo's not to autorecord...but to find the types of shows I want to record by Keyword---and then I choose if I want to record them.

8-Dual Live Buffers...as a good amount of others have already commented on.

These were the only ones I could rattle off right from the top of my head. I have yet to make the move to attempt to REPLACE any of my HDTIVO's with an HR20. The reason I got an HR20 was to familiarize myself for when I was ready to go full bore, swap out my HDTIVO's and just "move on". But, I haven't brought myself to do that yet....and I guess it's because the new HD channels haven't come out yet. But, it's inevitable that I WILL have to move to the HR20 full-scale...if only for all the additional HD movie/sports channels that I'm hoping to have access to.

[milominderbinder]

jaypb,

Please refer to the dbstalk forum (http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=112) and specifically the HR20 FAQ (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=839938#post839938) for HR20 questions but here are some quick answers:
1- From the HR20 Tips & Tricks (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=72648): Fast Forward is 5, 12, 20, or 90 times normal speed
3- Press [BACK] then ● Delete and you will be right where you left off.
5- I use the directv.com mytvplanner (http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/epg/myTvPlanner.jsp)
6- For the TiVo style guide, press <GUIDE> highlight the channel name & press <INFO>
7- You can have up to 25 Saved searches. Series Link are what you are looking for.
8- The HR20 Tips & Tricks (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=72648) has a workaround, not elegant but it works.

- Craig

[kmill14]

I wish people would stop with the "Dual Live Buffer" workaround. Its not a workaround. Its a Dual Record Buffer. You can't channel surf, and start a new buffer without recording that new channel. Its useless for NFLST users that like to game-surf.

[Billy66]

That's one of those debates. I agree with you kmill14. It's only on NFL Sundays that I miss it, but I know it's year round for others.

The work around doesn't help me much, but I hear it has value for some.

[fasTLane]

Just give it up, kmill14. Let the HR20 crowd have their little workaround.

Have to say that feature is mighty addictive. ;)

Thanks Tivo engineers.

[Billy66]

Have to say that feature is mighty addictive. ;)



It is. It was introduced to the market first to by DirecTv to DirecTv customers with UltimateTV and then through their massive investment and partnership with TiVo. Took TiVo another 4 years to get that in the hands of their SA customers.


Maybe you should be thanking Microsoft engineers, they got it to market first.

[Bathel]

4) To find my list of recorded shows is easy on the tivo, one button, on the HR20 it says MY playlist, then it says go there, then they are in folders instead of listed by recording date and fewer shows are listed on the screen. Have you tried pushing the "LIST" button on the remote? Brings up my recorded shows in one press every time.

BTW, mine are listed in recorded order (albeit in folders, which is fine by me).

I'm a big Tivo Fan, but I have to say that the HR20 has some very good points and even more features that will be coming soon (Video on Demand and Remote booking).

I have to say, I miss most the Tivo Remote. It felt better in the hand, was better layed out, and had more solid feeling buttons. Not to mention it looked better. I miss the sound effects of the Tivo too....

[montag]

I'm loving the screen saver. Works out great when I pause something, walk away, and don't come back for a 1/2 hour. My plasma display is very happy.

[JohnB1000]

I liked the dual buffer on the TIVO units but I just don't miss it at all on the HR20

[Sir_winealot]

I liked the dual buffer on the TIVO units but I just don't miss it at all on the HR20



That's because it doesn't have it.

:p

[JohnB1000]

Depends on which way you look at it. I found that I didn't really need it and have basically stopped using it on the TIVO units also. Using it was more of a habit than anything I really needed.

[kmill14]

According to dbstalk's forum, its the #1 requested item, so it seems a lot of people look at it as something they would like. (of course they would probably need to pay royalties to install it, but thats just mho)

Either way, I hate not having it on the HR-20.

[milominderbinder]

I wish people would stop with the "Dual Live Buffer" workaround. Its not a workaround. Its a Dual Record Buffer. You can't channel surf, and start a new buffer without recording that new channel. Its useless for NFLST users that like to game-surf.
The workaround is a kludge, I totaly agree. But there are some who do use it so people should know it is possible.

- Craig

[jaypb]

jaypb,

Please refer to the dbstalk forum (http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=112) and specifically the HR20 FAQ (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=839938#post839938) for HR20 questions but here are some quick answers:
1- From the HR20 Tips & Tricks (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=72648): Fast Forward is 5, 12, 20, or 90 times normal speed
3- Press [BACK] then ● Delete and you will be right where you left off.
5- I use the directv.com mytvplanner (http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/epg/myTvPlanner.jsp)
6- For the TiVo style guide, press <GUIDE> highlight the channel name & press <INFO>
7- You can have up to 25 Saved searches. Series Link are what you are looking for.
8- The HR20 Tips & Tricks (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=72648) has a workaround, not elegant but it works.

- Craig

I've been a member of DBSTalk since 2003, so I'm very familiar with the site as well as the tools you have over there. I have several of your cheat sheets printed out and scattered throughout my sofa/ottoman. Have I read them all? Nah. I only posted the question here to see if I could get a more Tivo-centric response from those who are uberly Tivo familiar vs. HR20 familiar as far as comparisons go.

Having said all that, I don't think the response you gave in #3 above "gets" me to where I need to be. Again, I have upwards of 20 items in some folders. I have them sorted so that most recent recordings are first in the folder, oldest last. Now, if I'm watching Baseball Tonight episodes, obviously I'd like to watch the oldest first....so I flip down to the oldest one, watch it, delete it, and when the HR20 returns to My Playlist (within that BT folder) it automatically goes to the first show in the folder (i.e the NEWEST/most RECENT). When the 10-250 deletes a show that is the oldest in the folder it simply returns to the show RIGHT above the one that I deleted in the folder....NOT the first/most recent one in the folder. Is there a way on the HR20 to NOT have this behavior occur? Or is that just the way it is?

I'll post this question over at DBSTalk as well. I did a search over there recently, but didn't see anything related to what I was trying to do....or at worst, I'm doing a poor job of verbalizing what it is I'm trying to do :(

Regarding #7----that doesn't really help me if I want to peruse (i.e) all Redskins related programming or University of Tennessee related programming (whether it be game related, coaches shows, highlight shows, etc...) and only record the ones I want to record. If 25 saved searches is the limit as of right now, I think I can handle that....but as I'm trying to transfer over my wishlists from the 10-250 to the HR20 I'm sure I'll go over 25 soonly.

Thanks for the info. :up:

[coachO]

This is actually one of few threads I have read where people are being objective and helpful instead of bashing the HR10 or HR20. Thanks all!

[wallyj]

I've had two HR20's for a few weeks now. Have to say I'm pleasantly supprised so far. I like them, and my wife does too.

[AVPhan]

So far after two months, piece of crap. Total un-user friendly, built and designed by a bunch of idiots. If I had a choice (to get new HD channels), it is out the door.

The reasons: eSata replacing internal disk crap, unfriendly search, search resulted in massive list and middle of my list scroll it re-do the search and got me back to the top of the list, my channels bug crap showing channels I do not have, search showing channels I do not have.

[JohnB1000]

So far after two months, piece of crap. Total un-user friendly, built and designed by a bunch of idiots. If I had a choice (to get new HD channels), it is out the door.

The reasons: eSata replacing internal disk crap, unfriendly search, search resulted in massive list and middle of my list scroll it re-do the search and got me back to the top of the list, my channels bug crap showing channels I do not have, search showing channels I do not have.

You can really only say that if you compare to the TIVO. IF you say that TIVO is #1 (I'm not saying that but just for discussion) then HR20 is clearly #2 for me, the Comcast and similar boxes are terrible. While the HR20 is not perfect I would argue that neither is TIVO it's just the way we've got used to it. Kinda like driving a car for years then switching to a motorcycle and saying it's crap cause it doesn't have 4 wheels.

[jshaffer85]

The HR20 is better than I expected but it still comes up far short for me.

1) No dual buffer. I'm so used to watching NFL this way and trying to record two games to simulate DB just doesn't cut it. Why they didn't incorporate this feature is unfathomable to me.

2) Channel changes are slow for me. Compared to HR10 it takes 2-3 extra seconds to change channels. Perhaps it is my drive but I expected better performance. Guides are faster than HR10.

3) Choppy frames on forward and rewind. No comparison, Tivo wins hands down.

Positive:

1) 90 minute pause Live TV.

[milominderbinder]

...Having said all that, I don't think the response you gave in #3 above "gets" me to where I need to be...Is there a way on the HR20 to NOT have this behavior occur? Or is that just the way it is?...

Regarding #7----that doesn't really help me ...
Thanks for the info. :up:
Sorry. I am the guy who wrote the Tips & Tricks (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=747592). I also wish the the PlayList would remember where I left off. It is on the WishList (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=93995). I would say to post your thread over at dbstalk. DIRECTV does read those threads. dbstalk does have a backdoor that you can use to help with the PlayList sort order though. Those discussions should go there for that tech support. The kludgy DLB workaround proves that the HR20 has the capabillity, it is just so hard to use.

- Craig

[redondoman]

I've been a Tivo user since 01 and I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised. I do miss the 30 second skip, which was more accurate on the Tivo, but other than that it does what I want it do. For instance season passes, keyword searches, dual input record all seem to work fine so far (I've had it for 2 months now). I actually prefer the menu setup as you can select all kids shows, all HDTV programs, all movies, all music programs, all news, etc. Once the new MPEG4 channels start broadcasting it is going to be a slow march downward for Tivo & DirecTV.

[milominderbinder]

I've been a Tivo user since 01 and I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised. I do miss the 30 second skip, which was more accurate on the Tivo, but other than that it does what I want it do. For instance season passes, keyword searches, dual input record all seem to work fine so far (I've had it for 2 months now). I actually prefer the menu setup as you can select all kids shows, all HDTV programs, all movies, all music programs, all news, etc. Once the new MPEG4 channels start broadcasting it is going to be a slow march downward for Tivo & DirecTV.
I wish I understood why DIRECTV would not have the 30 Second Skip to be 35 Seconds. It is just 5 seconds too long for between snaps. So I hit REPLAY as I come out and come up pretty close. Two words: Duh-umb.

- Craig

[joelq]

The HR20 is better than I expected but it still comes up far short for me.

....

3) Choppy frames on forward and rewind. No comparison, Tivo wins hands down.



I complained about this too, but it's actually the MPEG4 content that is choppy with trickplay. You'll notice that with MPEG2 the HR20 is actually on par with Tivo.

The box is just pushing more bits doing the realtime MPEG4 decoding than it did with MPEG2. Of course, there's no way to check this out on a Tivo because there's no MPEG4 support.

MPEG4 trickplay smoothness has gotten better over time, but ultimately they'll probably have to put a beefier MPEG4 decoder chip in an update to the HR20 before it'll be what we expect.

[rjnerd]

The HR20 is better than I expected but it still comes up far short for me.

1) No dual buffer. I'm so used to watching NFL this way and trying to record two games to simulate DB just doesn't cut it. Why they didn't incorporate this feature is unfathomable to me.

2) Channel changes are slow for me. Compared to HR10 it takes 2-3 extra seconds to change channels. Perhaps it is my drive but I expected better performance. Guides are faster than HR10.

3) Choppy frames on forward and rewind. No comparison, Tivo wins hands down.

Positive:

1) 90 minute pause Live TV.

2 and 3 are partly endemic to MPEG4. All the video formats send an entire frame at regular intervals, then just the frame-to-frame changes, until its time for another full synchronizing frame. On MPEG2, this happens every 15 frames. On -4, it can be as many as 200. You can't change channels until you get one of the synch frames. This is less than a second on -2, worst case could be almost 4 seconds on -4. The forward/rewind is often done by jumping between synch frames.

[Krookut]

I really wanted to like the HR20, but in my first 2 weeks of ownership, have had empty recordings, where the programs show up in the list, but nothing is there, and also missed recordings, which I had to manually force. Not a good start so far.

[milominderbinder]

I really wanted to like the HR20, but in my first 2 weeks of ownership, have had empty recordings, where the programs show up in the list, but nothing is there, and also missed recordings, which I had to manually force. Not a good start so far.
I have never had this problem. I djust looked and am not seeing others reporting it. Please post it at dbstalk (http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=112) so the developers can see it. Please include all the details you can: date, channel, program, usage at the time, etc.

- Craig

[Sir_winealot]

I really wanted to like the HR20, but in my first 2 weeks of ownership, have had empty recordings, where the programs show up in the list, but nothing is there, and also missed recordings, which I had to manually force. Not a good start so far.


This is my major complaint about the HR20, and although the problem has gotten a lot better, it still happens from time to time for me as well. It sucks not being able to trust the unit ...especially with the new fall shows coming up.

That, and my wife and kids still hate the thing. Perhaps once the new HD channels get going their attitude will change.

[milominderbinder]

This is my major complaint about the HR20, and although the problem has gotten a lot better, it still happens from time to time for me as well...
I just checked the issue thread and I do not see this posted. If no one is posting a problem, the dvelopers have nothing to fix. Please post any problems in this forum:

http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=112

- Craig

[AVPhan]

Another reason I think HR20 is a crap.....

I have CHUCK SL to set to record: Both, Disk Full, OnTime, Ontime.

It's Premiering tonight at 08:00 on 40-01, my NBC OTA.

Just checked, Here is ToDo list:

L&O CI 242 at 07:00pm - 08:00pm
Torchwood HDNet at 07:00pm - 08:00pm
MNF ESPNH 073 at 08:30 pm
JourneyMan 40-1 at 10:00pm

Check out Chuck's SL Episodes, it shows that it will record the re-run on Saturday, same channel but not the Premiere tonight.
Select RecordOnce on Premiere night, It took with no conflict.

Huh ???????

If you have one, check out all your SLs.

[Billy66]

This is what happened AVPhan.

When you set up your SL, you must have set it up from the re-run on Saturday. Then, when you press record the first time, it sets that as a one time recording. The next press makes it a SL, but does not change the explicit request for the specific episode that took the first record press.

In this case, it wouldn't record the show tonight because you have the same episode set to record already.

[kmill14]

I will be "looking over the shoulder" of my HR-20 every step of the way during these next couple weeks. If it misses anything, my wife will have my head.


Still miss the DLB, as others have pointed out, particularly for NFL watching.

Do like the "space left" bar.

Don't like the lack of only giving me options to record channels I actually get.

Don't like that all my recordings seem to start about 30 seconds in, at least.

Do like the NFL ST Player Tracker and Game Mix channel

Don't like the 35 second skip with 2 second back-up?!?!?!? :mad:

I like the one-click record option
I like the ability to view the guide based on subject, though I never use it..heh.

Overall, it does OK, but not great. The lack of a DLB to me is absolutely frustrating due to my desire to flip back and forth between multiple programs on a wim.

[stevel]

The same thing happened to me regarding Chuck and I did not press the record button; I used the Record Series option in the menu. I don't see anything in the guide data that would cause this to happen, but it does seem to have been affecting a lot of HR20 users. I did not try it on my HR10 to see what would happen.

[bonscott87]

NBC fubar'd the guide data on Chuck for this Monday's episode and they've changed the guide data a couple times (at first it wasn't flagged as "HD"). The Monday premier seems to be flagged as a repeat while the Saturday repeat is flagged as first run. Thus why it wants to record the Saturday episode. I explicitly canceled the Saturday recording and set tonights to record and all is well.

[AVPhan]

This is what happened AVPhan.

When you set up your SL, you must have set it up from the re-run on Saturday. Then, when you press record the first time, it sets that as a one time recording. The next press makes it a SL, but does not change the explicit request for the specific episode that took the first record press.

In this case, it wouldn't record the show tonight because you have the same episode set to record already.

Absolutely not. Searched for Chuck, pull up 2 weeks or so ago when only first showing was on the guide and set the SL.
Did similar thing on HR10, HR10 recording the show fine, no intervention.

[Billy66]

Look above. There appears to be a Chuck related issue.

What I described would cause those results, so do be aware of that differing behavior. Hope everyone that wants Chuck, got it.

[fmowry]

I've only had the HR20 a week and must say that the speed of cruising through menus is nice. Some of my season pass settings on my HR10 take forever to complete.

Another nice thing of the HR20 is upgrading the space. I got the 750 GB Free agent external HD for $199 - 10% coupon, and bought a 3 dollar eSata cable from firefold and it's up and running with a bunch of space for the new season. I still have a grounding problem with my upgraded dual drive HR10 where I can't put the case on without it rebooting some times.

Frank

[Maik]

I have have 3 HR20's for several weeks now and I have been very pleasantly surprised. In my opinion, the only thing I miss is the dual buffer. Otherwise it is better than the 10-250 in several of the most important areas...1) the PQ is better 2) the OTA works much better. I get channels that I was not able to get with the 10-250 3) Ability to use the guide while watching a recorded show 4) ease and speed to record a season pass.
Hard drive capacity seems quite large as I already have several HD football games as well as a bevy of HD movies and shows and yet meter says I have 70% available.

[yaddayaddayadda]

I miss the dual buffer. A Lot. I also miss going back (left arrow) to get back to the menu exactly where I was. Other than that I like the box, and am happy with the switch.

[Jebberwocky!]

I miss the dual buffer. A Lot. I also miss going back (left arrow) to get back to the menu exactly where I was. Other than that I like the box, and am happy with the switch.

doesn't the back button work as you want?

[bonscott87]

I miss the dual buffer. A Lot. I also miss going back (left arrow) to get back to the menu exactly where I was. Other than that I like the box, and am happy with the switch.

Left arrow going back was added a couple months ago. It will even work when watching a recorded program like a Tivo does. Quickest way to delete a program I think.

[AVPhan]

Look above. There appears to be a Chuck related issue.

What I described would cause those results, so do be aware of that differing behavior. Hope everyone that wants Chuck, got it.

Nope, lots of people lost it. Go figured even after I deleted the SL and reset it up.

[AVPhan]

I've only had the HR20 a week and must say that the speed of cruising through menus is nice. Some of my season pass settings on my HR10 take forever to complete.

Another nice thing of the HR20 is upgrading the space. I got the 750 GB Free agent external HD for $199 - 10% coupon, and bought a 3 dollar eSata cable from firefold and it's up and running with a bunch of space for the new season. I still have a grounding problem with my upgraded dual drive HR10 where I can't put the case on without it rebooting some times.

Frank

eSata is nice if you get to have it added right away. Try after you have HR20 for a while, what's with plugging eSata in to lose all your programs, SLs, and have to reset every little things.

[AVPhan]

I've only had the HR20 a week and must say that the speed of cruising through menus is nice. Some of my season pass settings on my HR10 take forever to complete.

Another nice thing of the HR20 is upgrading the space. I got the 750 GB Free agent external HD for $199 - 10% coupon, and bought a 3 dollar eSata cable from firefold and it's up and running with a bunch of space for the new season. I still have a grounding problem with my upgraded dual drive HR10 where I can't put the case on without it rebooting some times.

Frank

eSata is nice if you get to have it added right away. Try after you have HR20 for a while, what's with plugging eSata in to lose all your programs, SLs, and have to reset every little things.

[Billy66]

Nope, lots of people lost it. Go figured even after I deleted the SL and reset it up.


Huh? lots of people have gone forward in time beyond Saturday and it isn't recorded?

or do you mean lots of people didn't learn about the data issue and make the correction for last night?

[AVPhan]

Huh? lots of people have gone forward in time beyond Saturday and it isn't recorded?

or do you mean lots of people didn't learn about the data issue and make the correction for last night?

I posted this over the other board too:

Deleted the SL entirely
went to guide to CHUCK at 8:00 (done this around 06:00pm).
pulled the episode up,
Selected Record Series, with my options.
After that, went to Episodes.
It showed, 08:00 being set to record, not the other two (Saturday and Next Monday). Figured having enough time to next monday to recheck it.
This morning, No Chuck on HR20.

[Billy66]

Gotcha. I haven't checked the other board today. Sorry man, that stinks.

[AVPhan]

Gotcha. I haven't checked the other board today. Sorry man, that stinks.

And BTW, the SL now shows that two episodes waiting to be recorded (Sat and Next Monday).

Huh ? Mind of it's own, I guess.

[Billy66]

That part makes sense to me

[yaddayaddayadda]

Left arrow going back was added a couple months ago. It will even work when watching a recorded program like a Tivo does. Quickest way to delete a program I think.

I did not know that. I don't recall mine working that way. I'll have to double check. Thanks

[Billy66]

I believe the left arrow=back is currently part of a CE release and not the national release.

[stevel]

The guide data for Chuck and some other new NBC series has been screwed up, and keeps changing. This is probably the cause of the scheduling issues. The pilot for Chuck will be shown again on Saturday.

[madbeachcat]

I had the H10 for about 2 years and I can only remember a couple of times when it failed to record my show.

I've had the HR20 about 11 monthes and it hasn't missed a show yet.

Pretty good for both machines I would say.

By the by, I had a cable DVR from Cableone and it never could do anything right and had to be replaced twice in 6 monthes.

[Citivas]

NBC fubar'd the guide data on Chuck for this Monday's episode and they've changed the guide data a couple times (at first it wasn't flagged as "HD"). The Monday premier seems to be flagged as a repeat while the Saturday repeat is flagged as first run. Thus why it wants to record the Saturday episode. I explicitly canceled the Saturday recording and set tonights to record and all is well.

If it was the data, then why did it record fine on the TiVo 10-250 but not on the HR-20. Wouldn't it have messed up on both machines?

[stevel]

Part of the problem was that the initial showing was not flagged as HD but the repeat was. It seems that the DirecTV boxes have a preference for HD showings but the HR10 does not.

[JohnB1000]

It's pretty obvious that some TIVO lovers are just looking for problems with the HR20, somewhat understandable I guess. I do agree that overall the TIVO is better but it still lacks some good features that the HR20 has, and the HR20 is a pretty good machine considering that you almost have to use it for the future. If you accept that you have to use it and then look at the positives, it really is a pretty solid machine.

[coachO]

JohnB, I am just hoping the next generation of HR20 comes out before I have to succumb.

[JohnB1000]

JohnB, I am just hoping the next generation of HR20 comes out before I have to succumb.

But of course that'll come out around the time the HR20 is working well and will introduce a whole new set of problems :)

[SmackDaddy]

I just disconnected my last two 10-250's and replaced with two more 20-700's. I now have five of them in a rack accessible to the whole house. I have had DTiVo's since 2001 and have probably sold 50+ during that time frame. I love the 20-700's. Better PQ, faster (except on changing channels) and much easier to set up recordings, etc.

I do miss DLB.

[Jebberwocky!]

I just disconnected my last two 10-250's and replaced with two more 20-700's. I now have five of them in a rack accessible to the whole house. I have had DTiVo's since 2001 and have probably sold 50+ during that time frame. I love the 20-700's. Better PQ, faster (except on changing channels) and much easier to set up recordings, etc.

I do miss DLB.

you have 5 buffers - not enough? ;)

[tbh999]

Well, put me on the "It's OK" list.

I have both an HR10-250 and an HR20-100 (as well as three standard definition DirecTivos). Both the HR10 and HR20 have their pros and cons, but in general, if there was an HDirecTivo that could receive the new channel, I'd dump the HR20 today. I've had a lot more missed shows on the HR20 than I ever had on any of my Tivo's.

Somethings on the HR20 are much easier and more intuitive than the on the Tivo (such as setting-up a recording). However, there are some things I still haven't figured out how to do on the HR20! And just earlier this week we discovered that there is a limit of 50 shows in the prioritized (Season Pass in Tivo Speak), many of the shows in our season pass are on hiatus (some are anime and go on hiatus for as long as a year). The Tivo units would deal with these items and record them when ever they started-up again, on the HR20, I have to delete them to make room for other shows, also deleting shows in the prioritized that do not have shows scheduled to record is not as easy as you would think, there is a short cut to do it (Press "-" "-" on the remote), but it isn't very intuitive.

Also, and I'm kind-of surprised about this, I do really miss the dual buffers.

[tbh999]

Also, one positive thing about the HR20 (other than speed). Is that there is a real commitment from DirecTV to improve it. I haven't actually documented it, but it appears that we get a software update once or twice a month! Compare that to year(s) for the DirecTivo's.

Now, you can take that two ways:
The HR20 needs fixing.
DirecTV is committed to improve it. In actuality, I think both No. 1 and 2 are correct.

[ebonovic]

also deleting shows in the prioritized that do not have shows scheduled to record is not as easy as you would think, there is a short cut to do it (Press "-" "-" on the remote), but it isn't very intuitive.


I thought it was in the 0x18a (The last national release version), but it is at least in the next software update.

ON the bottom of the screen, there is a "KEY"... you will now be able to hit the RED button to delete an item in MOST of the screens, including the prioritizer and the todo list.

[RS4]

Also, one positive thing about the HR20 (other than speed). Is that there is a real commitment from DirecTV to improve it. I haven't actually documented it, but it appears that we get a software update once or twice a month! Compare that to year(s) for the DirecTivo's.

Now, you can take that two ways:
The HR20 needs fixing.
DirecTV is committed to improve it. In actuality, I think both No. 1 and 2 are correct.

I'm always amazed at how 'committed' DirecTV is. Here they are getting people to pay them while they are still fixing a box that has been out for a year and you guys seem to think this is wonderful. My thought is, why didn't they have the basic functions working long before they released the box? Can you imagine if Apple released an Ipod that let you download a song, but then lost it so you couldn't play it? :eek: People would have been up in arms. Instead, it appears to me that a lot of folks think it's so marvelous that something actually now works. :p

If DirecTV were so committed to it's viewers, why isn't it adding DLB? :mad:

[JohnB1000]

I'm always amazed at how 'committed' DirecTV is. Here they are getting people to pay them while they are still fixing a box that has been out for a year and you guys seem to think this is wonderful. My thought is, why didn't they have the basic functions working long before they released the box? Can you imagine if Apple released an Ipod that let you download a song, but then lost it so you couldn't play it? :eek: People would have been up in arms. Instead, it appears to me that a lot of folks think it's so marvelous that something actually now works. :p

If DirecTV were so committed to it's viewers, why isn't it adding DLB? :mad:

I'm guessing you never owned a first gen iPod ?? ton's of problems. Tried Windows Vista in the early days ???, bought a first run model of a new car design ??

I'd rather have the box with known flaws (of which I don't find virtually any to be a problem) than wait a year or more with no alternative.

I love the TIVO but I'm more than willing to accept the HR20 as a replacement if that's all that is offered.

[Billy66]

He also never tried an early generation tiVo product. I have and each one had fundamental problems upon release.

[Jebberwocky!]

RS4 - how many times are you going to make the same post? Considering you have yet have a unit in your house your opinion carries little to zero weight.

Order one, use it for a week and then let us know ;)

( now for the 2 year committment response)

[montag]

I believe the left arrow=back is currently part of a CE release and not the national release.
What's a CE release and how does one get it?

[RS4]

What's a CE release and how does one get it?

They explain it on dbstalk.com

[Billy66]

CE stands for Cutting Edge and they are the public tests of the software. You can be notified when they are available by registering at dbstalk and then subscribing to the thread in the CE forum.

The CE releases are usually every few weeks and available for a window of 11pm to 2am on that Friday and Saturday night.

You choose to get it by forcing your receiver to check for software using remote commands on reboot that you can learn over at dbstalk.

Hope that helps montag.

[Jebberwocky!]

Thanks Billy66! I prefer to get my cutting edge info here!

[RS4]

Thanks Billy66! I prefer to get my cutting edge info here!

That seems a bit odd. This is a Tivo forum and you prefer to get your information about a competitive product on this forum instead of on dbstalk with all of the folks who know and love the HR20? :confused:

[lew]

I used to think posters who had issues with the HR20, compared with tivo units, were exaggerating.

There is a long thread over at DBSTALK. Many HR20 users only got the first 30 minutes of Greys Anatomy. The speculation is the guide data changed, 1.01 to 1.02 length, while the show was recording and the unit chocked. The tivo powered units recorded the show fine.

[JohnB1000]

I used to think posters who had issues with the HR20, compared with tivo units, were exaggerating.

There is a long thread over at DBSTALK. Many HR20 users only got the first 30 minutes of Greys Anatomy. The speculation is the guide data changed, 1.01 to 1.02 length, while the show was recording and the unit chocked. The tivo powered units recorded the show fine.

Once again, some problems exist, firstly this does not make it a BAD unit, perhaps not as good as the current rev of TIVO. But the main thing, just try recording Grey's Anatomy in HD from a local channel without an HR20 (except for the lucky few of course)

[montag]

Thanks Billy66! I prefer to get my cutting edge info here!
Ditto. Thanks for all the info Billy and others!

[pbadss]

If I upgrade my HR10-250 to the HR20 will I need to provide a phone line for the initial activation?

[Markman07]

It does appear that the number of recording problems have risen since the new season started. Just the impression I get. I am waiting for my replacement HR20 to come tomorrow after my first HR20's (three-four months old) card reader broke making the unit unusable. Until that happened my experience with the HR20 has been overall pretty good. I still use the HR10 in the same room for OTA and SD recording. 4 tuners is always nice!!!

[stevel]

The HR20 does not require a phone line for activation.

[jimb726]

If I upgrade my HR10-250 to the HR20 will I need to provide a phone line for the initial activation?

No its all done over the satellite now.

[MrBigglesworth]

I have had 1 day with my HR20 (moved my beloved H10-250 to the bedroom and now Im jonesing for a 40-50 inch flat panel for the wall in there but thats another issue)

With the Harmony remote I have pretty much mirrored everything that the Tivo did with the same button presses. In the end, what I get is recorded HD content. The HR20 is stupid fast in how it gets from menu to menu, but the menuing system is a bit more complicated than the Tivo. Where Tivo is elegant and fluid in its intuition, the HR20 is a tad clunky, while the Tivo chugs because it is slow in accessing and moving things around. So it isnt a high step up in trade off.

However, if they could get the speed of the HR20 into an MPEG4 capable DirecTivo with ESata, I would be in HEAVEN.

[JohnB1000]

If I upgrade my HR10-250 to the HR20 will I need to provide a phone line for the initial activation?

No, my HR20 activated without a phone line attached and 7 days later it still is not attached and no complaints yet (from the system that is :) )

[jspencer]

I really didn't want the HR 20 but I was sort of forced into it when they chose to upgrade dish. It is an ok machine but I am not very fond of it. I haven't found to many things on it that made me go "WOW" but I have found things that My Hr 10-250 had that I wish this box possesed. Oh well, I wish it was Tivo based

[fasTLane]

I will make do with the Tivo, as I don't think about the HR20 at all.

[Billy66]

You sure do read and post about it enough for something you don't think about fastlane.

[fasTLane]

You think so?

Enjoy your HR20. ;)

[Billy66]

Will do.

On second thought, based on your posts you might not actually be doing much thinking afterall. I stand corrected on your initial statement. ;)

[Scooter]

I will make do with the Tivo, as I don't think about the HR20 at all.

Enjoy making do with SD programming. :D

[Sir_winealot]

Enjoy making do with SD programming. :D


Hey....until they dump MPEG2 HD, it's (HR10) still got much to offer (not to mention OTA - HD). I think it'll be some time before that happens as D* is gonna want to contact all the remaining HR10 owners and try to get them to upgrade (and notify them that the HD programming they're paying for is not going to be available by a certain date).

If they don't, and simply cutoff MpEG2 ...their switchboards are gonna be going nuts w/some very unhappy peoples. :p

[fasTLane]

Before that time, this puppy will be off to greener grassland.

TiVoHD options are being researched for whenever that day comes.

[ebonovic]

If they don't, and simply cutoff MpEG2 ...their switchboards are gonna be going nuts w/some very unhappy peoples. :p

That day will happen... and it is going to happen a lot sooner then some of you may think it is.

[milominderbinder]

If I upgrade my HR10-250 to the HR20 will I need to provide a phone line for the initial activation?
No. No phone line is needed unles you want to do Pay Per View.

Here is the thread where people are talking about doing the upgrade:

HR10-250 and MPEG4; Upgrade Offer (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=361301&page=22&pp=30)

Lots of success stories there getting this type of deal. Most are able to keep their TiVo's for the old channels and adding a box for the new ones (and old).

They also added 11 more HD channels today for a total of 40+. (9 MPEG2, 4 Locals, 21 last week, 11 this week)

- Craig

[Sir_winealot]

That day will happen... and it is going to happen a lot sooner then some of you may think it is.


Sorry Ed, but I sincerely doubt it.

...I don't doubt that it eventually will happen, I just doubt that they're simply gonna 'flip a switch' and cut it off w/o contacting and extending offers to the remaining HR10 owners out there (and I'm sure there are a lot of them) that are paying for HD access.

Think about the ramifications of thousands of people suddenly turning on their HD televisions one morning, and finding that all of their HD channels that they're paying for are simply gone ...and they have no idea why.

Think of the phone calls and hostility that will create if, in place of their HD channels they find a notice stating "these channels are no longer available: your bill has been adjusted to reflect the loss of your HD package. In order to continue receiving HD programming, please contact D* to lease our new $199 MPEG4 DVR."

Think of the billing department having to adjust all these bills to reflect the loss of that HD access ...and think of the revenues that D* will lose because of that.

Think of the mass of orders for HR20's that will inundate D* ...all at once ...so that all these folks who didn't even know what 'MPEG4' is can continue to watch HD programming on their HD sets.

Companies just don't do that (even D*). You do not alienate your best customers (and I would hasten a guess that most of those with HD programming are customers paying the highest bills).

I would guess that the majority of HR10 owners out there haven't a clue that an MPEG4 DVR is even available (I imagine it's a very small percentage that actually read these boards) ...D* needs to contact every single one of them and let them know ....well in advance .....that these new options are available to them and that their HD programming will cease to be available.

I've not received a notice from D* ...not a phone call, nor a letter ...nothing.

D* does not want to lose customers and revenues, and if they simply 'turn off' these HD channels without notifying and working to assuage these premier customers, they'd be making a huge mistake.

Even D* is not that stupid.

[Billy66]

I agree, there will likely be some effort to contact users of legacy equipment to give advanced notice of the shutoff and provide a path to get new equipment.

An unannounced "flip of the switch" doesn't make much sense.

[hiker]

...I don't doubt that it eventually won't happen, ...
Hmm... double negative? Did you mean: "...I don't doubt that it eventually will happen,"?

Let's not forget that there are lots of us with plain HD mpeg2-only receivers in addition to the HR10.

[Sir_winealot]

Hmm... double negative? Did you mean: "...I don't doubt that it eventually will happen,"?

Let's not forget that there are lots of us with plain HD mpeg2-only receivers in addition to the HR10.


LOL...yeah, that's what I meant. Sorry, fixed it (recovering from shoulder surgery and the pain meds have me a bit on the stupid side). :p

Thanks for catching that.

As far as those HD mpeg2 receivers ...that adds to the fact that it would create an even bigger mess if they just 'cut it off.'

[ebonovic]

Sorry Ed, but I sincerely doubt it.

...I don't doubt that it eventually will happen, I just doubt that they're simply gonna 'flip a switch' and cut it off w/o contacting and extending offers to the remaining HR10 owners out there (and I'm sure there are a lot of them) that are paying for HD access.

Think about the ramifications of thousands of people suddenly turning on their HD televisions one morning, and finding that all of their HD channels that they're paying for are simply gone ...and they have no idea why.

Think of the phone calls and hostility that will create if, in place of their HD channels they find a notice stating "these channels are no longer available: your bill has been adjusted to reflect the loss of your HD package. In order to continue receiving HD programming, please contact D* to lease our new $199 MPEG4 DVR."

Think of the billing department having to adjust all these bills to reflect the loss of that HD access ...and think of the revenues that D* will lose because of that.

Think of the mass of orders for HR20's that will inundate D* ...all at once ...so that all these folks who didn't even know what 'MPEG4' is can continue to watch HD programming on their HD sets.

Companies just don't do that (even D*). You do not alienate your best customers (and I would hasten a guess that most of those with HD programming are customers paying the highest bills).

I would guess that the majority of HR10 owners out there haven't a clue that an MPEG4 DVR is even available (I imagine it's a very small percentage that actually read these boards) ...D* needs to contact every single one of them and let them know ....well in advance .....that these new options are available to them and that their HD programming will cease to be available.

I've not received a notice from D* ...not a phone call, nor a letter ...nothing.

D* does not want to lose customers and revenues, and if they simply 'turn off' these HD channels without notifying and working to assuage these premier customers, they'd be making a huge mistake.

Even D* is not that stupid.

Well... what can I tell you...

Next NFL Season the Sunday Ticket will be MPEG-4 only.
They have a definitive timeline that they have to get their content off teh 72.5 sat and put "somewhere", and that is going to be on the 101/110/119

Where do you think that bandwith comes from?
As you reach a critical mass point, they are going to switch.

It hasn't been a secret for nearly 3 years now, that you were going to have to switch.

So yes... it is going to be a lot sooner, then a lot of you are painting the picture to be.

Given the latest number of HR10-250 systems that are still active (which is right now, very small in relation to the overal HD subscriber base)...

Yes, they are going to bite the bullet... and it is not going to be as painfull to DirecTV as you may think it will be.

[ebonovic]

I agree, there will likely be some effort to contact users of legacy equipment to give advanced notice of the shutoff and provide a path to get new equipment.

An unannounced "flip of the switch" doesn't make much sense.



Never said it wouldn't be "unannounced"... they most certainly will announce it.
Just said that it was going to be "sooner" then a lot of people may think it will be.

[hiker]

Never said it wouldn't be "unannounced"... they most certainly will announce it.
Just said that it was going to be "sooner" then a lot of people may think it will be.
Would you care to take a guess on how much "sooner" it might be, like a date range ?

[ebonovic]

Would you care to take a guess on how much "sooner" it might be, like a date range ?

I would not be surprised if it isn't completed by the end of Q2, if not Q3.

[JohnB1000]

I would not be surprised if it isn't completed by the end of Q2, if not Q3.

That's a double/triple negative - so at this point I have no idea what you said :) :)

[bonscott87]

Would you care to take a guess on how much "sooner" it might be, like a date range ?

I would expect that after Sunday Ticket is over they will start with contacting people that have HD but don't have at least 1 MPEG4 reciever and there really won't be that many people left in that category. If my friends are any indication, every single one of them that is HD capable (13 of them) now have an HR20. Many just called up this week after the new channels went live but they all now have at least one MPEG4 capable receiver. There are some that called up to get a 2nd and 3rd one now that the channels are live. So they are covered. By the end of the year, with all the new HD, there just isn't going to be that many "hold outs" that haven't at least got an H20/21 let alone an HR20 added to their mix to get the new channels.

So while next year they may have tens of thousands still with just MPEG2 HD equipment, it's not going to be that many that they can't swap people out quickly.

And to think that DirecTV wouldn't do it just to not piss off customers, you need to think back in history. How about all the people that cable pissed off (and still do) when analog channels move to the digital teir? How about all those that will be forced to get new receivers for switched video? How about Dish telling people that the Voom channels would be going to MPEG4 only and they have 2 months to get a new receiver (not free) or lose them.
Not saying it's right but this happens all the time and the few tens of thousands affected out of 16+ million just gets taken care of. If you piss off a few and they leave so be it, it won't be noticed.

[Sir_winealot]

It hasn't been a secret for nearly 3 years now, that you were going to have to switch.




Not to us, but Joe Consumer probably has no idea. And to contact Joe well in advance of any switch so as to give him an opportunity to continue paying D* for his D* HD access, is just simple, good business sense.

Now, I realize nobody ever accused D* of being smart, and having good business sense ....but how difficult would this be to implement so as to avoid losing revenue?

Between the HR10's, and H10's there's plenty of units out there. And they don't want to lose this income.

Perhaps you've been told otherwise by your contacts, but I cannot see any reason that D* wouldn't contact all their HD customers well in advance of the mpeg2 shutoff so as to give them the opportunity to upgrade and continue paying for their HD access.

I would imagine they'll also offer this at a discounted price ...if not free ... as incentive to make the switch while locking in another 2 years.

There would be absolutely no reason for them to not give folks plenty of time to get installed and paying before hand ...not rocket science ...it just wouldn't make sense.

[bigpuma]

Not to us, but Joe Consumer probably has no idea. And to contact Joe well in advance of any switch so as to give him an opportunity to continue paying D* for his D* HD access, is just simple, good business sense.

Now, I realize nobody ever accused D* of being smart, and having good business sense ....but how difficult would this be to implement so as to avoid losing revenue?

Between the HR10's, and H10's there's plenty of units out there. And they don't want to lose this income.

Perhaps you've been told otherwise by your contacts, but I cannot see any reason that D* wouldn't contact all their HD customers well in advance of the mpeg2 shutoff so as to give them the opportunity to upgrade and continue paying for their HD access.

I would imagine they'll also offer this at a discounted price ...if not free ... as incentive to make the switch while locking in another 2 years.

There would be absolutely no reason for them to not give folks plenty of time to get installed and paying before hand ...not rocket science ...it just wouldn't make sense.

I think you are misunderstanding Earl. No one is saying DirecTV is just going to flip the switch then say Sorry. I would estimate that by the end of the year there will not be a lot of people with only an HR10 or other Mpeg-2 HD receiver. Most people will start upgrading due to the new channels and when enough customers have done that I fully expect DirecTV to offer free or very cheap upgrades in advance of making the switch. I could easily see this happening in the 2nd or 3rd quarter of next year. How many people are going to sit around for the next 6 months and not get all the new channels from DirecTV in HD. That is a very reasonable time frame. I highly doubt their will still be Mpeg-2 HD channels next fall when football season starts.

[milominderbinder]

The conversion from MPEG2 to MPEG4 has been happening steadily. They have stated their beginning and endpoints in their quarterly earnings conferences:

A. The NFL ST will still be in the MPEG2 HD for H10/HR10 receivers through the Super Bowl.
B. Beginning August 2008, the NFL ST will be in MPEG4 only.

Here are my guesses as to how they will get from point A to point B.

DIRECTV reported that of nearly 40,000,000 receivers in the field only a small percentage were HR10's or H10's.

Their churn and growth total about 100,000 new receivers (SD & HD) a month. They have expanded the number of installers and added a third installation slot each day at 6 AM. So in the next year they are geared up to install 1 - 2 million receivers.

We have watched in this thread (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=361301&page=22&pp=30) as people got deals on the HR20. The $19 deals for HR10/H10 owners actually started last winter.

So how many of the old MPEG2 boxes still need to be replaced? Only DIRECTV knows.

First came the 150 Carrots: 21 HD Channels, then 11 more, then more and more until they hit their promised 100 this year and up to 150 in 2008.

They are putting the squeeze on offering certain channels only in MPEG4 HD:
Food Network HD 231-1
HGTV-HD 229-1
MDH 332
MGM HD 255
NBA TV HD 601-1
Smithsonian Channel HD 267
Starz Comedy HD 519
Starz Kids & Family HD 518
20+ Regional Sports Networks broadcast nationally.

We are hearing from people getting the new deals that they are backlogged 3-4 weeks in most areas. That may explain why they still have not even issued a press release that D10 is now on. The HD ads have been pulled since August except in markets not maxed out. Even when the ads come back, I bet it will be slowly.

Then comes the stick.

I am betting that as soon as the holiday and Super Bowl surge subside, DIRECTV will start using mailings, and bill inserts. The outbound call script will begin with something like, "You have qualified for an exciting upgrade!"

I bet there is a chart up on some manager's wall showing the remaining legacy HD subscribers and their monthly conversion goals. I bet that chart shows "0" remaining in August of 2008. I do believe that HR10's will still be able to recevie SD and OTA HD after that.


- Craig

[MurrayW]

...
A. The NFL ST will still be in the MPEG2 HD for H10/HR10 receivers through the Super Bowl.
B. Beginning August 2008, the NFL ST will be in MPEG4 only.
...- CraigI sure hope they get DLB's on the HR20 before the 2008 NFL season starts. I don't want to have to use 4 HR20's to give me the ability to watch 4 games simultaneously that I can currently do with 2 HR10-250's. Earl since you seem to be in the know on timelines at D* what do you think the chances of DLB's on the HR20's are by Sep '08?

Murray

[bonscott87]

There would be absolutely no reason for them to not give folks plenty of time to get installed and paying before hand ...not rocket science ...it just wouldn't make sense.

I think they will, I think you misunderstand Earl.

If the plan is shutdown of MPEG2 HD in say July or August (3rd quarter), I'd think contacting people starting in January/Feb is plenty of time. That's 6 months of time.

[jimb726]

Curiously and not to start a war, but why does everyone feel that they will offer the replacements for free? Wouldnt it be the opposite? I would have thought by that time they would say "We know that everyone who wants to change, has" so the ones that havent, either dont care or have another reason for not switching. While I understand the desire to not lose anyone I would think that the decision is going to be very heavily weighted based on how many people still have units in operation. I would think that there is a number where they just finally say, here is the best offer, take it or leave it. I hope not but it seems that they have bent over backward over the last 18 months, and even now they appear to be tightening the purse strings significantly. Like I said, I hope I am wrong but I would like to hear a convincing argument other than, "they owe us".

Thanks

[milominderbinder]

Curiously and not to start a war, but why does everyone feel that they will offer the replacements for free? Wouldn't it be the opposite? I would have thought by that time they would say "We know that everyone who wants to change, has" so the ones that haven't, either don't care or have another reason for not switching...
They already did the free deals (after credits) for much of the summer and until the new HD Channels launched.

Even now, people are still reporting $99 or even $19 deals in this thread:

HR10-250 and MPEG4; Upgrade Offer (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=361301&page=22&pp=30)

Right now you can get an HR20 for cheap for the new channels (and old) and keep your TiVo for the old channels. Double the tuners, double the storage.

The free deal seems to have already come and gone but still people can get really good deals.

What happens after the press release finally goes out that the new channels are up?

We will see soon enough.

- Craig

[ebonovic]

I sure hope they get DLB's on the HR20 before the 2008 NFL season starts. I don't want to have to use 4 HR20's to give me the ability to watch 4 games simultaneously that I can currently do with 2 HR10-250's. Earl since you seem to be in the know on timelines at D* what do you think the chances of DLB's on the HR20's are by Sep '08?

Murray

Just slightly next to zero.

It is not a feature that is in active development.
It is not even on the short list of features to begin development.

[Scooter]

Here's what I do when I'm desperate for Dual live buffers, Sunday Ticket for instance: I record one game that I know I want to continue watching and then I select another game I want to watch and I use the previous channel button to swap tuners. As long as one tuner is recording a station you can jump back to the other tuner. I does get a bit messy if you start surfing around to other stations though. It's not perfect by any means, but it is an option.

Scooter :)

[MurrayW]

Here's what I do when I'm desperate for Dual live buffers, Sunday Ticket for instance: I record one game that I know I want to continue watching and then I select another game I want to watch and I use the previous channel button to swap tuners. As long as one tuner is recording a station you can jump back to the other tuner. I does get a bit messy if you start surfing around to other stations though. It's not perfect by any means, but it is an option.

Scooter :)Yeah, I am aware of that work around and it sounds like that is what I will need to do next year . What I usually end up doing with my HR10-250's right now is to record 1 game (the Chiefs!) and initially pick 3 others that I think will be good games to watch. As the games progress, the initial 3 that I picked change especially in the last 1/2 hour of the games when the games become more or less interesting.

thanks,
Murray

[MurrayW]

Just slightly next to zero.

It is not a feature that is in active development.
It is not even on the short list of features to begin development.Can you give me a little background on why it is not even on the short list? From what I have read, this is pretty high on the wishlist of DirecTV HD users and there are many like me who consider this an important feature. It seems as though there are 2 distinct camp: people either really like DLB's or could care less about them -- there doesn't seem to be any middle ground.

But if this is a highly desired feature by a good portion of the users what is the reason not to want to develop it? Is it because:


It is too hard to do
It is too expensive
It is proprietary to TiVo
They just don't care what their users would like to have
Other


thanks,
Murray

[hiker]

Someone with HR20 please explain the channel numbering scheme. It looks like the channel numbers are the same for HD and SD, like 247 for TBS-HD and TBS-SD, 244 for SciFi, etc. When you key in 2 4 7 which version of TBS do you get and how to directly get the other? Or does the SD version completely go away?

[Billy66]

DLB is actually number 9 on the list of features requested by HR20 users.

http://www.sizethis.com/index.php

Hiker, if you enter the channel number you get the HD channel first. Hit channel up and you go to the SD version (which will have the same number)

I think/wish that they would just eliminate channel numbers altogether and just show the network identifier. Ie TBSHD, TBS etc. We're not using dials any longer, so numbering is completely unnecessary.

[ebonovic]

Someone with HR20 please explain the channel numbering scheme. It looks like the channel numbers are the same for HD and SD, like 247 for TBS-HD and TBS-SD, 244 for SciFi, etc. When you key in 2 4 7 which version of TBS do you get and how to directly get the other? Or does the SD version completely go away?

Yes... that is the numbering scheme...
The HD and SD share the same number.

On an HR20 (soon to be the same on the H20), when you key in the number... it will default go to the HD version.

You can still access the SD version by then hitting channel UP, or directly selecting it on the guide.

There is a feature in the CE/Test versions of the code, that give you the options to hide all SD duplicates, so they don't appear in the guide.

[ebonovic]

Can you give me a little background on why it is not even on the short list? From what I have read, this is pretty high on the wishlist of DirecTV HD users and there are many like me who consider this an important feature. It seems as though there are 2 distinct camp: people either really like DLB's or could care less about them -- there doesn't seem to be any middle ground.

But if this is a highly desired feature by a good portion of the users what is the reason not to want to develop it? Is it because:


It is too hard to do
It is too expensive
It is proprietary to TiVo
They just don't care what their users would like to have
Other



thanks,
Murray

Well... I can't share with you all the reasons... but I can share some...

There are a lot of factors that go into the discussion of DLB.. .and there are many of threads that will go a lot deaper...

But the bottom line is... DirecTV made the decision to not include DLB, based on a number of reasons.... their decision to not work on it right now, still are directly tied to the original reasons as well.

Yes... they understand that there is a "large" population of users that would like to have that feature.

No... it is not a "licensing" thing

Yes... "Hard" and "Cost" those all are a factor that goes into the overall decision.

No... it is not that they don't "care"... as the fact that it has not be completely remove from the list, and is still discussed as a possibility...

---

With regards to a middle ground on the issue.... what would the middle ground be? There is a middle ground... like me.

I could care less if it comes or it doesn't come.
If they are there... I may use them.
But after not having them for 2 years... and primarily watching pre-recorded content, I have simple stopped the need/desire to try and watch two live programs at once.

With sports tickers on the football games, baseball/basketball games... the "suspense" of seeing the action... just isn't there anymore for me...

I record the "other" game if there is really something I want to see...