Tivo Copy Protected

[Park84]

Why keep on paying for Tivo when you no longer can download those most typical watched shows? Why not just pay your cable service provider @ a much lower rate for their DVR box? Why is TIVO screwing their customers? WHY? Why did I even upgrade to TIVO desktop Plus to convert to my iPod? WHY?

I'm just venting, but I am really ticked off @ Tivo for real. This copy protection really stinks and Tivo is not much better than a standard DVR box now.

I am sure I'm not the only one feeling this way so I just figured I vent here. Sorry for those who had to waste their time to read this... I just want my money back because I am getting less service from what I signed up for.

Lost a customer for sure..... Time to eBay my Tivo Box!

[hc130radio]

adios!

[MickeS]

Why keep on paying for Tivo when you no longer can download those most typical watched shows? Why not just pay your cable service provider @ a much lower rate for their DVR box? Why is TIVO screwing their customers? WHY? Why did I even upgrade to TIVO desktop Plus to convert to my iPod? WHY?

I'm just venting, but I am really ticked off @ Tivo for real. This copy protection really stinks and Tivo is not much better than a standard DVR box now.

I am sure I'm not the only one feeling this way so I just figured I vent here. Sorry for those who had to waste their time to read this... I just want my money back because I am getting less service from what I signed up for.

Lost a customer for sure..... Time to eBay my Tivo Box!

I honestly haven't got the slightest clue what "most typical watched shows" you can "no longer" download. Are you talking about Amazon Unbox? Bittorrent files?

What copy protection?

Even if you're just venting, you could try to make some sort of sense.

Oh, and bye.

[mike3775]

I honestly haven't got the slightest clue what "most typical watched shows" you can "no longer" download. Are you talking about Amazon Unbox? Bittorrent files?

What copy protection?

Even if you're just venting, you could try to make some sort of sense.

Oh, and bye.

Thats what I want to know. So far, I have no problem downloadinf to my PC anything that I have recorded on my Tivo since T2G came out, except for the unbox stuff, but thats not an issue as I can easily redownload whenever I want.

[richsadams]

Why keep on paying for Tivo when you no longer can download those most typical watched shows? Why not just pay your cable service provider @ a much lower rate for their DVR box? Why is TIVO screwing their customers? WHY? Why did I even upgrade to TIVO desktop Plus to convert to my iPod? WHY?

I'm just venting, but I am really ticked off @ Tivo for real. This copy protection really stinks and Tivo is not much better than a standard DVR box now.

I am sure I'm not the only one feeling this way so I just figured I vent here. Sorry for those who had to waste their time to read this... I just want my money back because I am getting less service from what I signed up for.

Lost a customer for sure..... Time to eBay my Tivo Box! Could the OP be talking about the issue posted on this thread (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=360789)? I haven't seen this crop up on our TiVo's, but it seems something might be going on. :confused:

[Dan203]

99% of the time when this happens it's a simple glitch in the cable box. If you simply pull the plug on your cable box and allow it to reset it'll probably clear up the issue. If you don't have a cable box, or resetting it doesn't help, then you need to complain to your cable company. It is illegal for them to copy protect anything that is on a publicly broadcast station. So if you're getting copy protection notices on ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS or FOX then they are in violation. If they are stations which are only broadcast on cable then unfortunately they have the right to protect the content in this way, and there is nothing you can do about it. *

Dan

* One exception. If you have a cable box then you can purchase one of those after market devices designed to remove copy protection from DVDs and let you copy them to VHS, and put it between your cable box and your TiVo. That will scrub out the protection signal before it gets to the TiVo so the TiVo wont know the program is suppose to be protected.

[jmoak]

Could the OP be talking about the issue posted on this thread (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=360789)? Could be. It's kinda hard to tell.

Something's going on? Not on my boxes. He's sure he's not the only one feeling that way. I wonder who else he's talked to?

Will we ever know?
:confused:

I'd have to find out what was going on if my boxes started doing that.:(

[jtown0620]

If the poster is referencing the TiVo Cast content just download the shows from the original source to your pc/mac then move them to your TiVo. Also the movies from Amazon have to be copy protected. I don't know of any (LEGAL)Online Movie source that doesn't use some sort of DRM. I hate All DRM too but unfortunately thats going to be a part of our digital life no matter what source your using to get your content through(LEGALLY).

[richsadams]

All true...we need more info to help this person...if they can be helped and if they ever come back. :confused:

In any case, he can't blame TiVo for copy protection of any sort...that's up to the owners of the material. TiVo has no control over that.

[ZeoTiVo]

All true...we need more info to help this person...if they can be helped and if they ever come back. :confused:.
This may be another case of a single rant post because the person is mad(understandable) but then they never come back as they do not realize there may be an answer to be had from this fine forum.

Park84, please reply if you see this. What you are experiencing may not be normal TiVo operation or they may be a reason outside TiVo's control such as UNBOX license

[steve614]

This may be another case of a single rant post because the person is mad(understandable) but then they never come back as they do not realize there may be an answer to be had from this fine forum.
I'd bet that some people come here thinking that they are posting to Tivo, Inc. (like that would make a difference) and don't realize that we're just other customers here. :D

[h0mi]

Hate to bump an old topic from the dead but I'm finding myself in a similar situation as Park84, except I'm not cancelling my tivo any time soon. I want to be able to copy recordings that friends/relatives would want to see but probably didn't know about & missed. I recorded a barenaked ladies thing on A&E this past weekend for my cousin but it was protected.

My question is, are all cable channels demanding to be set to copy protected or is Cox (San Diego) doing this automatically in error? I could understand HBO et al (which I don't subscribe to). I don't get why Comedy Central would be. I want to at least make sure I dont have a hardware/cablecard problem. Broadcast channels are unprotected; cable channels are protected.

[CrispyCritter]

Hate to bump an old topic from the dead but I'm finding myself in a similar situation as Park84, except I'm not cancelling my tivo any time soon. I want to be able to copy recordings that friends/relatives would want to see but probably didn't know about & missed. I recorded a barenaked ladies thing on A&E this past weekend for my cousin but it was protected.

My question is, are all cable channels demanding to be set to copy protected or is Cox (San Diego) doing this automatically in error? I could understand HBO et al (which I don't subscribe to). I don't get why Comedy Central would be. I want to at least make sure I dont have a hardware/cablecard problem. Broadcast channels are unprotected; cable channels are protected.The cable channels in general are not demanding to be protected (obvious exceptions of HBO and other premium channels). Cox has made the decision to protect those channels for (from!) you. Comcast made a corporate decision not to protect the cable channels after looking into consumer complaints so Comcast franchises mostly do not.

Complain to Cox - that's the only way they'll change it. It's not being demanded by most of the channels, so they can change it.

[h0mi]

Thats what I wanted to know. I had no way of knowing whether the content provider demanded this, or if it was Cox's decision (or it was a hardware problem) that caused this.

Thanks.

[greg_burns]

Private Sessions on A&E HD is copy protected on my cable as well (comcast). :(

Wanted to transfer the same BNL episode myself. ;)

http://www.tivo.com/copyprotection/

[Dan203]

According to a TiVo employee I talked to at CES this year it's actually illegal for your cable company to copy protect shows which the content provider did not specifically request to be protected. So if your cable company is blindly copy protecting every channel then a call to the local cable regulatory commission or even the FCC might be in order.

Dan

[mikeyts]

According to a TiVo employee I talked to at CES this year it's actually illegal for your cable company to copy protect shows which the content provider did not specifically request to be protected. So if your cable company is blindly copy protecting every channel then a call to the local cable regulatory commission or even the FCC might be in order.

DanDid this TiVo employee happen to point out specific rules? Unless there's been some recent FCC rule making to this effect, I don't believe that's actually true. The rules used to leave it up to the cable provider's discretion. They can apply Copy One Generation protection to anything other than core basic cable (any rebroadcast of over-the-air transmission, digital or analog, have to be placed in the core basic tier, so they can never put copy protections on that stuff). They can only apply Copy Never protection to Pay-Per-View and Video On Demand; TiVo won't make a permanent recording of things marked Copy Never.

In another thread, someone stated that they'd complained to Comcast, who voluntarily looked into it and removed practically all Copy One Generation protection from their system except where their content providers (like HBO/Cinemax) explicitly requested it. Supposedly, they were making this the rule nationwide. It was, however, something that they did voluntarily.

It never hurts to register a complaint with your local cable franchising authority. They're concerned with keeping the public happy with cable services and anything that pisses you off is worthy of their consideration, even if it's within the bounds of FCC regs.

[Dan203]

First off I'm not a lawyer, nor an expert on the subject. However it was my understanding that this employee was saying that that the content creator (i.e. the channel) has the option to add copy protection if they see fit (with the exception of OTA broadcasters) however it is illegal for the cable company to apply copy protection to the content without the permission of the content creator.

So the rule we have talked about here before, where it is illegal for them to protect OTA broadcasts, still applies. This is just something new I heard where apparently it's also illegal for them to protect the other channels unless they have permission from the content provider.

Now for all I know Cox makes all their content providers sign an agreement which allows them to protect the content at their own discretion. But if not then they are in violation of that rule/law and can be forced to disable the copy protection.

Also, this was a very high ranked TiVo employee and not some "booth babe", so I trust he knew what he was saying.

Dan

[mikeyts]

First off I'm not a lawyer, nor an expert on the subject. However it was my understanding that this employee was saying that that the content creator (i.e. the channel) has the option to add copy protection if they see fit (with the exception of OTA broadcasters) however it is illegal for the cable company to apply copy protection to the content without the permission of the content creator.

So the rule we have talked about here before, where it is illegal for them to protect OTA broadcasts, still applies. This is just something new I heard where apparently it's also illegal for them to protect the other channels unless they have permission from the content provider.

Now for all I know Cox makes all their content providers sign an agreement which allows them to protect the content at their own discretion. But if not then they are in violation of that rule/law and can be forced to disable the copy protection.

Also, this was a very high ranked TiVo employee and not some "booth babe", so I trust he knew what he was saying.

DanI wish that I was as trustful as you, but before I believe that I'd have to see a citation of the actual rule. We can find the cable provider rules in the FCC regulations which apparently give the cable provider discretion on the application of Copy One Generation protections, but this is the first I've heard of any rule forbidding it. If it existed, I have to believe that someone in these discussions would have found and cited it by now, so I really seriously doubt that it does exist, no matter how highly placed in TiVo the person claiming the existence of such a rule is.

People in these discussions have certainly complained to the FCC about this practice and the FCC has never, to my knowledge, taken action to change cable provider application of these protections, except where OTA stuff was being protected.

[Dan203]

I do trust the person I was talking to, but I'm not an expert and I have no proof, so I can't argue against your logic. Maybe someone who is in the business or knows more about these sorts of laws can chime in and let us know for sure one way or the other. (would be a useful piece of knowledge either way)

Dan

[mikeyts]

Don't get me wrong--I'll love it if such a rule does exist. But if people are going to use it to combat the wanton protection of pay channels by the providers, we need to find out what exactly the rule is, so that it can be cited in complaints. "At CES, somebody from TiVo told a guy who posted it online that what my cable company is doing is illegal," isn't likely to carry much weight in a letter to the FCC.

[h0mi]

Well I emailed cox. I haven't gotten a response other than a "We're looking into it".

I'll have to find out more about the local franchising authority to contact them. Pretty much everything that isn't broadcast is marked as protected; my unscrambled SD channels like Comedy central (which I dont need a cable card to access) has its shows protected as well as stuff on A&EHD.

[mikeyts]

I'll have to find out more about the local franchising authority to contact them. Pretty much everything that isn't broadcast is marked as protected; my unscrambled SD channels like Comedy central (which I dont need a cable card to access) has its shows protected as well as stuff on A&EHD.The guy who reported satisfaction from Comcast was in much the same position and got action by going through his franchising authority. Comcast was more interested in keeping them and him happy than in preventing unauthorized distribution of A&E, etc.

[bicker]

Don't get me wrong--I'll love it if such a rule does exist.Indeed. It is very important to remember that the law lists what is NOT permitted. It does not list what IS permitted. So if there is no law preventing the cable company from copy protecting the programming they distribute, then they are indeed allowed to do it. They may, as mentioned, voluntarily decide not to, but could not be compelled.

[h0mi]

Thank you for your email. The flags to protect individual content are
put in place by the provider of that content. I have forwarded your
email to our product support department for more information and to look
into this. As soon as i get some feedback from them I will email you
with anything that I learn.


This is why I hate dealing with cable companies. (sigh).
(edit) actually this is why I hate dealing with tech support. 90% of the time its worthless and I can find better answers from forums like this.

[Thaed]

I have Cox Cable too and almost everything that is in HD format is copy protected on my TiVoHD.

[Stormspace]

Dude. Old thread. Ack!

[Stormspace]

Thats what I want to know. So far, I have no problem downloadinf to my PC anything that I have recorded on my Tivo since T2G came out, except for the unbox stuff, but thats not an issue as I can easily redownload whenever I want.
That's not quite correct and it's a real pain as well. For instance, if you purchase a movie when it's released, watch it and delete it. Then a few weeks later when you try to download it again, it can be in a black out period as the movie goes to pay channels. Even if you purchased the movie previously you will be unable to redownload it until the black out period is over. This can take months.

[pcbrew]

So the rule we have talked about here before, where it is illegal for them to protect OTA broadcasts, still applies. This is just something new I heard where apparently it's also illegal for them to protect the other channels unless they have permission from the content provider.

FYI, there is a whole thread (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5924623#post5924623) in the S3 forum on TWC flagging ALL digital content EXCEPT the locals. They're doing it in the DFW market. Digital versions of the channels they also have on analog are protected as well.

[wierdo]

My cable company has a few channels that appear to be flagged more by accident than anything else. I'm not going to rock the boat and ask them to change it, though, as there are a few channels that the content owner is known to request flagging for that are not flagged. :cool:

[ruinah]

I just noticed most things on my Tivo HD are protected also. I have a s2 and the same channels there are not protected. What gives? I know HBO and Cinemax and such are protected, but why would Seinfeld running on TBS be protected on the HD and not an S2? Does the cable card play a role here?

[bicker]

The TiVo HD records digital programming, while the TiVo S2 records analog programming. That accounts for the difference you're seeing.

[ruinah]

The TiVo HD records digital programming, while the TiVo S2 records analog programming. That accounts for the difference you're seeing.

so you can't transfer any digital content then? What happens when they ditch analog cable? That sort of stinks for me as I transfer a ton of shows from my S2 and was hoping to start doing that with the HD box. I guess for the stuff I wanna transfer I will need to continue recording that on the S2 for now.

[bicker]

so you can't transfer any digital content then?No. Rather, certain types of copy protection affect digital content and do not affect analog content.

It all depends on what you record, of course, but generally, about 15% of my recorded content (including TiVo Suggestions, which injects a bit of non-random sampling into the evaluation) is protected, while 85% can be copied freely.

[mikeyts]

There are similar copy protection systems which can be applied to analog signals, as digital data encoded in the Vertical Blanking Interval, like closed-captions (CGMS-A (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CGMS-A) is one--HBO/Cinemax use it (http://www.hbo.com/corpinfo/faq/cgmsfaq.shtml) on their analog channels). The DMCA requires detection and obedience to these flags from recorders, and I'd guess that both S2s and S3s comply. That hasn't caught on nearly as well as copy protection flags in digital content, which is more important going forward. (It's also possible that the addition of CGMS-A or anything like it by cable providers to analog content might be disallowed by some provision of the FCC regs, but content providers can freely encode it into the stuff that they give to them for broadcast).