Series3 - Limited Functionality

[tomtorre]

Morning All,
Just needed to get this off my chest, I have read a few threads and it seems that the limited functionality of the Series 3 has been going on for some time - Between purchasing (3) Series3 HD Tivos and (3) three year prepaid subscriptions I dropped $3,000 for these units that can't Transfer Programs (Multi-Room Viewing), TivoToGo, No Desktop Software and you all know the list goes on.

My question to all in the forum is: "Why should we PAY FULL COST for a subscription when the Series3 has been released with so many limited features?

I am sure Tivo needed to get this unit out to market ASAP but there is no additional functionality added to these units since I think JANUARY.

I am just totally frustrated with the way Series3 Owners are just given the same answer "We are working on it" and there is no end in sight when they will get the added features that the Series2 has.

I know all about the threads blaming CableLabs but don't you think that is getting kind of OLD NOW.

What are your thoughts, I'm sure I am not the only one that would like to get a better pricing structure based on the limited functionality of the Series3

Thanks for listening,
Tom :down:

[LoREvanescence]

Well, I can atleast help you with why tivo2go and network transfers to another box are not active on a s3.

This is becuase in order to be certified by cablelabs for use with cablecards, those features had to go or the box would not be approved. This is becuase they look at those features as a risk of piracy of high definition or digital video.

I beleave tivo is workign with cablelabs trying to come up with somekind of solution that will alow them to restore these features, but there is no garntee that this will happen or when.

[GoHokies!]

Swivel search and Unbox both came after January.

If the lack of MRV and TTG bothers you so much, why did you spend so much money? You did do some research and know these things befor you bought, right?

Tivo is working on a solution, but it isn't the kind of thing that you do overnight.

The S3 also has a killer feature that the S2 doesn't, HD. Again, if you don't think it's worth the same money, you shouldn't have bought.

If you are interested in moving on, I'd gladly take one of these crippled boxes with to features off of your hands. ;)

[davecramer74]

Morning All,
Just needed to get this off my chest, I have read a few threads and it seems that the limited functionality of the Series 3 has been going on for some time - Between purchasing (3) Series3 HD Tivos and (3) three year prepaid subscriptions I dropped $3,000 for these units that can't Transfer Programs (Multi-Room Viewing), TivoToGo, No Desktop Software and you all know the list goes on.

My question to all in the forum is: "Why should we PAY FULL COST for a subscription when the Series3 has been released with so many limited features?

I am sure Tivo needed to get this unit out to market ASAP but there is no additional functionality added to these units since I think JANUARY.

I am just totally frustrated with the way Series3 Owners are just given the same answer "We are working on it" and there is no end in sight when they will get the added features that the Series2 has.

I know all about the threads blaming CableLabs but don't you think that is getting kind of OLD NOW.

What are your thoughts, I'm sure I am not the only one that would like to get a better pricing structure based on the limited functionality of the Series3

Thanks for listening,
Tom

ive got to ask why you went out and bought one. i came here and my decision was easy, the tivo does not offer what im looking for so i didnt buy one.

[rdrrepair]

You did do some research and know these things befor you bought, right?I bought my first unit and didn't know that the S3 had no MRV or TiVoToGo function or that the Esata port was disabled. Who releases a newer model, the flagship of their current offerings, with less features? - I felt like I was ripped off, but, I also felt that I could return it - after reading some more, I realized that TiVo was working on it, I then decided to keep my S3.

I have since bought another S3. I too would like these items added in - I have been waiting for over 8 months. I have faith that these items will be addressed soon. I understand that you're frustrated... "TiVo is working on it" does sounds hollow after all this time.

But, I am very happy with my purchases. If I had to do it again I would.

Esata is here... check, sort of. :up:
MRV... still waiting :down:
TiVoToGo... still waiting :down:

Based on everything I've read at the Cable Labs site and reading what the CEO of TiVo has said - we'll be getting some form of MRV and TiVoToGo before the end of the year. Exactly what "Some form" means is anyones guess.

:rolleyes: Maybe he'll give us all portable DVD burners and long cables to hook up our TiVo's in other rooms. :D

That is why I bought my second S3. Now if it doesn't happen then my 2nd S3 was a mistake that I knew about before I purchased it... Since getting the S3 my need for MRV has dropped dramatically, all of my other TiVo's are single tuners,

I still use the other TiVo's to record stuff for MRV and TiVoToGo so this really hasn't affected me all that much, I would just like to remove the S2 from my HD TV set if this gets turned on.

I believe. :D

[Revolutionary]

I understand what you are driving at.

S3 owners pay the same subscription rates as S2 owners, even though the subscription brings access to features unavailable on the S3 (eg, MRV and TTG). You could say that the S3 makes up for that disparity by offering HD and HD Photos, but then, that's why the hardware costs more, not the service subscription.

With this in mind, it would make sense for Tivo to offer the S3 at a discounted service rate, since the service is "incomplete" in comparison with an S2.

I'm not saying that would have been a bad or illogical choice for Tivo to make -- but nor will I say that "simple greed" drove them to reject it. I think they opted to offer the S3 at the same subscription rate because they have planned from the get-go to give S3 subscribers the same features -- again, namely MRV and TTG. Perhaps it has taken longer than they expected. But suppose they went with the alternative and did the S3 discount? What happens when they come out with MRV and TTG for the S3? Do they raise S3 subscription rates? Only for new subscribers? No matter what choice they make, they end up with an unhappy set of subscribers. So I suspect they went with the simplest choice: offer the same rate for all Tivo service, despite service disparities. That way they can rely on first-adopters to make an informed decision AND promise those folks eventual TTG and MRV as a reward for their patience.

I'm not Tom Rogers, but that seems to be the smartest business move they could make, with the least amount of multi-tiered-service-plan confusion.

[Bierboy]

I bought my first unit and didn't know that the S3 had no MRV or TiVoToGo function or that the Esata port was disabled....How in the world, if you did ANY research at all before purchasing, could you NOT know those features were not enabled? From the beginning, it was very clear from TiVo and on this site those features were not enabled. I'm just sayin'.... :rolleyes:

[rdrrepair]

How in the world, if you did ANY research at all before purchasing, could you NOT know those features were not enabled? From the beginning, it was very clear from TiVo and on this site those features were not enabled. I'm just sayin'.... :rolleyes:No, I hear you. I've got more money then brains. :D

Anyway, I own 6 other lifetime TiVo's besides the two S3's - I saw the shinny transfer option for $299 and jumped before looking. I did no leg work on what was or was not offered on the new S3 - I thought that the S3 would have the same or more features - I was mistaken.

I didn't return it, I liked what I saw (HD TV) more then what I was missing. I do not regret buying my S3's. I have faith that TiVo will enable these features and more. I know that a lot of other people purchased these S3's think that the features that they know and love would be included with this premier product.

If you didn't return it within the 30 day return period, stop whining about it. You know what you got and you kept it. I won't return or sell either of my S3's.

[classicsat]

TiVo only offers the one rate card which applies to all standalone TiVos.
It would be too complex for them, I suppose, to granularize their service based on features they can offer on each box.

[acvthree]

If they followed your logic, they would charge extra for the HD support. I think we are better off with the "one price" model.

Al

[dig_duggler]

If they followed your logic, they would charge extra for the HD support. I think we are better off with the "one price" model.

Al

HD support? What are they supporting? That's all hardware. It is a reduced feature set.

In the OP's defense, Tivo was vague when they said they were working on it and hoped to have it in a future update. A year (or more) is quite a bit of time for a software update (one they admitted fault for - at least with regards to being responsible for analog way back in January).

Speculation and excuses are nice, but they don't change the end result.

[davecramer74]

How in the world, if you did ANY research at all before purchasing, could you NOT know those features were not enabled? From the beginning, it was very clear from TiVo and on this site those features were not enabled. I'm just sayin'....

well to be fair, their commercial implies that the S3 does everything the S2 does. Its VERY misleading. But i agree, for 800 bucks, id do a little research.

[GoHokies!]

HD support? What are they supporting? That's all hardware. It is a reduced feature set.

In the OP's defense, Tivo was vague when they said they were working on it and hoped to have it in a future update. A year (or more) is quite a bit of time for a software update (one they admitted fault for - at least with regards to being responsible for analog way back in January).

Speculation and excuses are nice, but they don't change the end result.
A year or more?

The S3 wasn't even released until September, the calander on my wall says it's still July and we've had software updates in the interim. You even cited January, which is when they first said that it was being worked on. 5 months ago, less than 1/2 a year.

I'm not sure what more info you want them to release - they've never released their production/update schedule, there really isn't that much more to know.

While the hardware is different, the cost to support it and write software for it is the same. Why would you pay any less for it? (not to mention that people complain that the pricing scheme it too complicated as it is).

[acvthree]

HD support? What are they supporting? That's all hardware. It is a reduced feature set.

In the OP's defense, Tivo was vague when they said they were working on it and hoped to have it in a future update. A year (or more) is quite a bit of time for a software update (one they admitted fault for - at least with regards to being responsible for analog way back in January).

Speculation and excuses are nice, but they don't change the end result.

Ok, so as long as the hardware had the chips but there was no software for the chips to function, that would be OK with you?

Al

[dig_duggler]

A year or more?

The S3 wasn't even released until September, the calander on my wall says it's still July and we've had software updates in the interim. You even cited January, which is when they first said that it was being worked on. 5 months ago, less than 1/2 a year.

To be fair, they said it was in the works when the s3 was released. They admitted fault finally in January stating that analog content was not CableLabs fault, but theirs and that they were working on it, not just starting to work on it. And January was 7 months ago last time I checked.

September is a month and a 1/2 away. Of course, they released towards the end of the month, so it's really about 2 months away from the year anniversary. If they release it in their winter update (which this year was , well, in this year rather than last) it will be well over a year. Time flies doesn't it?

[nhaigh]

How in the world, if you did ANY research at all before purchasing, could you NOT know those features were not enabled? From the beginning, it was very clear from TiVo and on this site those features were not enabled. I'm just sayin'.... :rolleyes:


I have some sympathy with the OP's position.

I bought the S3 fully understanding the limitations. I did however expect those limitations would be resolved within a reasonable timeframe, say six months, either through agreements on the existing implementation or via the development of a new implemtation that is agreeable.

[dig_duggler]

Ok, so as long as the hardware had the chips but there was no software for the chips to function, that would be OK with you?

Al

Well, seeing as how I'm paying for software and software support, no. Hardware is covered under your warranty. Tivo service is for software, channel listings, and to not turn off my software. A reduced price for reduced feature set seems like a fair idea. Bilking the cost into hardware and (less functional) software seems a bit greedy, don't you think?

Edit: While I like this idea, do I think it's feasible? Heck no. But I think it's a valid point.

[GoHokies!]

To be fair, they said it was in the works when the s3 was released. They admitted fault finally in January stating that analog content was not CableLabs fault, but theirs and that they were working on it, not just starting to work on it. And January was 7 months ago last time I checked.

September is a month and a 1/2 away. Of course, they released towards the end of the month, so it's really about 2 months away from the year anniversary. If they release it in their winter update (which this year was , well, in this year rather than last) it will be well over a year. Time flies doesn't it?
Wrong again. The announcement in mid-January was 6 month ago. The announcement was also not an admission of fault in any way. They were waiting on Cable Labs when they released, sometime between September and January Cable Labs made their decision and started to impliment it.

Regardless of the quibbleing over a month here or there, my only point was to bring a little big of reality to your post, reading them knowing nothing about the situation makes it sound far worse than it actually is.

[Grakthis]

Guys, I went out and bought a new house, and it doesn't have a fenced in backyard, wood floors or vaulted ceilings.

Don't you think this is completely ridiculous? The builder keeps telling me that I can add these things later, but he hasn't added anything! And here I am paying my mortgage every month, and my house isn't getting any new features.

My OLD house had all of these things! It's a joke that my new house is lacking so many of the features of my old house. In fact, I think I should be paying a discounted mortgage because my new house lacks so many of the features my old house had!

And all these people in the neighborhood association keep telling me that it's because those options weren't available on the model homes in the development, well, I say that is GETTING OLD. It's time for a new excuse, fellas.

I want to file a class action lawsuit against the builder. WHO IS WITH ME?!?

[dbenrosen]

Well, then why should I pay the same service fee for my old Series 1? It is severely lacking in features when compared to the S3 or S2 (no Unbox, no Swivel Search, in fact, it is still running version 3.x of the OS), but it still costs me the same per month (actually it is "free" for this year with my lifetime transfer to the S3, but technically they are charging me $6.95/month for it and I'll get charged the $6.95/month once my year is up) as an S3 or S2.

NOTE: I'm just making the point that the pricing structure is confusing enough without trying to introduce a la carte pricing for individual features or lack thereof.

[dig_duggler]

Wrong again. The announcement in mid-January was 6 month ago. The announcement was also not an admission of fault in any way. They were waiting on Cable Labs when they released, sometime between September and January Cable Labs made their decision and started to impliment it.

Regardless of the quibbleing over a month here or there, my only point was to bring a little big of reality to your post, reading them knowing nothing about the situation makes it sound far worse than it actually is.

Over 6 months (Jan 15th) so I win the closer war (5 v 7):) How in the hell did I come up with 7? Probably the same way you came up with 5 :)

As for bringing a bit of reality, here's the quote:

"I certainly wouldn't blame CableLabs for all that. The analog content that doesn't go through CableLab regulation, it's our responsiblity to enable that functionality." About 6:45 in here (http://www.technologyevangelist.com/2007/01/ces_jim_denny_tivo.html). If that's not an admission of fault, well, it's an admission of responsibility for not having it implemented. It absolves CableLabs of blame and claims responsibility (at least for analog). That's good enough for me for an admission of fault.

Nothing about waiting on CableLabs (again analog). That's been speculated as tied to expectations about approval, but I have never seen an official word to that matter.

Edited for clarity.

Double Edit: I'm really bored at work to be arguing about this to this extent.

[ZeoTiVo]

If they followed your logic, they would charge extra for the HD support. I think we are better off with the "one price" model.

Al
I want a discount for no HD photos on the S2. Also I hear the S3 can do OTA recording and my DT can not - I want some more discount - then I hear the S3 can do HME faster, grr.

I wnat them to pay me for using this cruddy S2 DT :D

[Martin Tupper]

Speaking of functionality:

A Series 3 can record two encrypted channels simultaneously...Can a Series 2?
A Series 3 can directly record digital programming with no loss of quality...Can a Series 2?

[GoHokies!]

Double Edit: I'm really bored at work to be arguing about this to this extent.As was I. Family day at work isn't any fun when you don't have any family around, doubly so when they open up your office so you can't get any work done (classified environment) but still require you to be there. :confused:

Thanks for pulling that quote - I remembered it as "Hey, don't blame cable labs" but can see where "It's our fault" can be read in there. I don't think that it has to be anyone's real "fault", that's just how things go sometimes. All of that will fall by the wayside when we get TTG/MRV soon.

I think that we've pointed out adequetly that there are different feature sets in each box, and that charging on a "per feature" base would be absolute insanity. :)

Thanks for the diversion. ;)

[ZeoTiVo]

As for bringing a bit of reality, here's the quote:

"I certainly wouldn't blame CableLabs for all that. The analog content that doesn't go through CableLab regulation, it's our responsiblity to enable that functionality." About 6:45 in here (http://www.technologyevangelist.com/2007/01/ces_jim_denny_tivo.html). If that's not an admission of fault, well, it's an admission of responsibility for not having it implemented. It absolves CableLabs of blame and claims responsibility (at least for analog). That's good enough for me for an admission of fault.

Nothing about waiting on CableLabs (again analog). That's been speculated as tied to expectations about approval, but I have never seen an official word to that matter.

Edited for clarity.

Double Edit: I'm really bored at work to be arguing about this to this extent.
good find. I am not at work or bored so I wont find the TiVoPony quote but it was a post on this forum and he gave the same indication of analog could be don without cable labs BUT they were indeed hoping for a cable labs approval so they could do MRV at least of HD along with the analog.

So that does lend credence to the waiting cause they thought they could get approaval from cablelabs angle. still at the end of the day we wait for functionality on the S3 that sets TiVo DVRs apart from others

[snowbunny]

In TiVo's mailout offers for the S3, they did NOT mention the loss of MRV and TTG functionality, nor any of the SDV/Cable Card kerfluffle. Those of you who don't live in a heavily SDV-rollout area would feel this is a third loss over S2. They could have covered their butts by keeping the IR channel changing blaster solution so that those who needed to keep the damned cable digital converter box could have done so and avoided the SDV issue. Then CableLabs wouldn't be the third-party who they cannot control and is limiting them.

I'll admit that it wouldn't be an elegant solution, but it would have been A solution. I *did* do research on the S3 before buying it. I just believed TiVo's advertising which did not even mention the limitations in the small print. Even the website doesn't make it clear. Only this forum revealed the limitations, and I don't join a forum every time I buy a piece of electronic equipment! Is that a reasonable expectation?

I'd like to know how many of you found out about the S3's limitations *before* joining this site.

[MediaLivingRoom]

TiVo needs to get this fixed soon.

[rdrrepair]

Those of you who don't live in a heavily SDV-rollout area would feel this is a third loss over S2. They could have covered their butts by keeping the IR channel changing blaster solution so that those who needed to keep the damned cable digital converter box could have done so and avoided the SDV issue. I'll admit that it wouldn't be an elegant solution, but it would have been A solution.They still have a USB port that can be used as an IR blaster with proper, custom cables - You "could technically" take the STB "RF Feed Out" and put it to the "ANT RF Feed In" and allow the TiVo to change a STB. Everyone has talked about why they can't do it - I say it can be done! TiVo would have to code for it, but it could be done. "It wouldn't be an elegant solution" but it is a solution that is technically possible. I, wouldn't want to watch it on my 70" HD TV Set, but some, with a smaller TV, would benefit from it.I just believed TiVo's advertising which did not even mention the limitations in the small print. Even the website doesn't make it clear. In TiVo's mailout offers for the S3, they did NOT mention the loss of MRV and TTG functionality, nor any of the SDV/Cable Card kerfluffle. Only this forum revealed the limitations, and I don't join a forum every time I buy a piece of electronic equipment! Is that a reasonable expectation?Exactly correct... You would have to be a TiVo Forum, technet junkie to have found out about it. My research was nothing, I am not complaining, I do know that there are some people who feel shafted and I think they have a good point. I was surprised at first. The wife wanted to know why she couldn't transfer a recording upstairs. I felt a little stupid trying to explain to her why I needed this expensive S3 and paid an additional $299 for a lifetime transfer when her TiVo does more then mine. Well, I told her, "Look at the picture quality of this compared to that" and the "but, the lifetime transfer is running out soon"... That lifetime hung in there for many more months. I felt like the dupe that goes into a store because the sign says "Hurry, while supplies last" or "Owner retiring, everything must go" only to find out that the owner sold to his wife and it's now in her name.I'd like to know how many of you found out about the S3's limitations *before* joining this site.When I got my S3 and saw everything that it didn't do, I didn't join up, I got drafted into the TiVoCommunity forums... At this point, in my relationship with the S3, I was prepared to return it... What the heck? Where is this stuff at? But, I decided to give the S3 a shot. Most everyone was talking about having these features enabled. I felt, and still do, that TiVo will get this right...
_________________________________________
Now I own a second S3. Will I be disappointed if MRV and
TiVoToGo are not enabled? You bet I will, but, it will be a
decision that I'm forced to live with.

Why? Because I didn't return it within my 30 day window and
I bought a second unit knowing what it couldn't do.

This is where the "more money than brains" quote should go. :D
_________________________________________

note: some quotes by "Snowbunny"
have been moved around to save space
and to run in the allotted time slot. :mad:

[GoHokies!]

They still have a USB port that can be used as an IR blaster with proper, custom cables - You "could technically" take the STB "RF Feed Out" and put it to the "ANT RF Feed In" and allow the TiVo to change a STB. Everyone has talked about why they can't do it - I say it can be done! TiVo would have to code for it, but it could be done. "It wouldn't be an elegant solution" but it is a solution that is technically possible. I, wouldn't want to watch it on my 70" HD TV Set, but some, with a smaller TV, would benefit from it.Exactly correct...
I don't know of a cable STB that outputs HD via RF, so you wouldn't be able to get to the HD SDV channels.

Kinda tough on your flagship HD product there, you know?

Rogers was optimistic in his congressional testimony when talking about SDV and 2 way communications. If they didn't have something in the works to solve the problem, it would have been the perfect opportunity to make as much noise in foront of congress as possible about how their intent is being ignored by greedy cable companies and an incompetent FCC. Since he didn't, I suspect that something is in the works. We won't see it tomorrow, but neither will most of us see SDV tomorrow either.

[jrm01]

Rogers was optimistic in his congressional testimony when talking about SDV and 2 way communications. If they didn't have something in the works to solve the problem, it would have been the perfect opportunity to make as much noise in foront of congress as possible about how their intent is being ignored by greedy cable companies and an incompetent FCC. Since he didn't, I suspect that something is in the works. We won't see it tomorrow, but neither will most of us see SDV tomorrow either.

I hope you are right about that. However, I fear that he was tip-toeing around the issue since they were still in negotiations with Comcast and other cable companies for their new alliance and didn't want to bash the cable companies.

[GoHokies!]

I hope you are right about that. However, I fear that he was tip-toeing around the issue since they were still in negotiations with Comcast and other cable companies for their new alliance and didn't want to bash the cable companies.I hope so too. :up:

Even if they were mid-negoatiations about something, the upcoming testimony would have been some good leverage to get the cable companies on board, kind of a "agree now or I'll tell Mom and Dad" type deal.

[wolflord11]

Speaking of functionality:

A Series 3 can record two encrypted channels simultaneously...Can a Series 2?
A Series 3 can directly record digital programming with no loss of quality...Can a Series 2?

LOL!

A Series 2 has TTG. Does the Series 3 have this.... NO!
A Series 2 Has MRV. Does the Series 3 have this....NO!

To answer your functionality a little more:

"A Series 3 can record two encrypted channels simultaneously...Can a Series 2?"

The Directv/Tivos (Series 1 and 2) has always had the ability to record Two channels simultaneously. So, Tivo takes this from Directv. Wow!!! A big step for Tivo :D

"A Series 3 can directly record digital programming with no loss of quality...Can a Series 2?"

Again a Series 1 or 2 Directv/Tivo unit has always had this feature. The ability to record directly without any loss in picture or sound quality. So again, the ability to do this has always been there. But I suppose Tivo is the leader in this Technology?

What the Series 3 did have over the Series 2 is a "LARGE" price increase for less features.

And now, with the Series 3 Lite coming out or by its proper name "Tivo HD" atleast you are paying a better price, but still have limited Functionality until Tivo actually gets off its a** and does something about it :D

[Martin Tupper]

LOL!

A Series 2 has TTG. Does the Series 3 have this.... NO!
A Series 2 Has MRV. Does the Series 3 have this....NO!
No, not at this time.

The Series 2 has features that the Series 3 doesn't have, and vice versa.

Assuming for the sake of argument that at some point TTG/MRV functionality is added to the Series 3, should TiVo charge a bigger service fee to Series 3 owners because they have more functionality than Series 2 owners?

To answer your functionality a little more:

A Series 3 can record two encrypted channels simultaneously...Can a Series 2?The Directv/Tivos (Series 1 and 2) has always had the ability to record Two channels simultaneously. So, Tivo takes this from Directv. Wow!!! A big step for Tivo :D...and since when did DirecTiVos come with TTG or MRV? Oh, that's right, they don't.

A Series 3 can directly record digital programming with no loss of quality...Can a Series 2?
Again a Series 1 or 2 Directv/Tivo unit has always had this feature. The ability to record directly without any loss in picture or sound quality. So again, the ability to do this has always been there. But I suppose Tivo is the leader in this Technology?See above. The Series 3 has a different feature set than the DirecTiVo or the Series 2. Whether those differences represent a loss or a gain is up to the individual.

What the Series 3 did have over the Series 2 is a "LARGE" price increase for less features. Um, isn't the whole point of this tread that Series 3 owners pay the same service charge as Series 2 owners (Except that to record two programs at the same time, Series 2 owners have to pay 2 service charges).

And now, with the Series 3 Lite coming out or by its proper name "Tivo HD" atleast you are paying a better price, but still have limited Functionality until Tivo actually gets off its a** and does something about it :DEverything has limited functionality. Omitted from your rant is the fact that the Series 3 (and the future Series 3Lite) will do things that the Series 2 cannot. If you feel that the Series 3 (in its current form) isn't your best option, then what's stopping you from exercising that "best" option?

[snowbunny]

I don't know of a cable STB that outputs HD via RF, so you wouldn't be able to get to the HD SDV channels.


The solution I'm talking about is to keep the bloody cable company's digital *converter* box and use a USB IR blaster to change channels in the same way the S2 does -- by feeding it into the digital box like the remote does.

However, this would mean:

* a USB device driver to perform this functionality
* some way to connect the digital output from the cable box to TiVo's digital input.

I do not trust the cable companies to play fair and adhere to open standards (gee, look at Microsoft's record in that category if you need an example from another industry), and if it had been me designing the TiVo, I would have included as many external interfaces for I/O as would fit on the box. Toss the OLED, toss the glow-in-the-dark remote.... make it as open as possible.

[GoHokies!]

I've positied much the same thing, except you can do it all over firewire (transmit commands and receive digital video). The drawback is that you need one cable box per tuner if you want dual tuners.

[wierdo]

I've positied much the same thing, except you can do it all over firewire (transmit commands and receive digital video). The drawback is that you need one cable box per tuner if you want dual tuners.
When I realized we were asking for ponies, that's exactly what I was thinking of, except with a 5C compliant USB to Firewire dongle so I don't have to buy a new TiVo.

If a dual tuner cable box could output both channels over Firewire simultaneously, that almost might be a viable option for the future, if the SDV issue never gets worked out. If Cable Labs refuses to budge on nothing but OCAP for two-way devices, there's nothing TiVo can really do short of lobbying or lawsuits.

Whatever happens, I'll be happy if we get HD TiVoToComeBack.

[magnus]

LOL!

A Series 2 has TTG. Does the Series 3 have this.... NO!
A Series 2 Has MRV. Does the Series 3 have this....NO!


Maybe not but it's got potential.

The Directv/Tivos (Series 1 and 2) has always had the ability to record Two channels simultaneously. So, Tivo takes this from Directv. Wow!!! A big step for Tivo :D


It would be nice of them (D* that is) to allow companies like Tivo (who can build a better DVR) to make the DVR for them. The dual tuners for Directv in Tivos probably had more to do with the various manufacturers (like Hughes, Samsung, and Phillips) than Directv itself.

I really think that Directv (and Dish) should be forced, like the cable companies, to include cable cards or something like that, so that customers wishing to have a superior product could do so.


What the Series 3 did have over the Series 2 is a "LARGE" price increase for less features.

Not so large... I got a S3 for $400 and no rebates whatsoever. The S2 is like $249 without any rebates.


And now, with the Series 3 Lite coming out or by its proper name "Tivo HD" atleast you are paying a better price, but still have limited Functionality until Tivo actually gets off its a** and does something about it.

I can live with that..... really not all that concerned with it. I'm sure that Tivo will get it for us the the near future.

[GoHokies!]

And now, with the Series 3 Lite coming out or by its proper name "Tivo HD" atleast you are paying a better price, but still have limited Functionality until Tivo actually gets off its a** and does something about it :D
Yeah, because Tivo just needs to snap their fingers and this will be done, they're just too lazy to do it. :rolleyes:

[jmoak]

... but still have limited Functionality until Tivo actually gets off its a** and does something about it :DThere's a sticky at the top of this forum that explains why it's so hard for tivo to "get off its a**", as in there's a 600lb gorilla named cablelabs sitting square on it's chest.
:(

[Jonathan_S]

The Directv/Tivos (Series 1 and 2) has always had the ability to record Two channels simultaneously. Well, technically the Series 1 DTiVos shipped with the hardware to handle dual tuners, but not the software.
The version 2.5 software finally enabled the capability. (And there was much rejoicing :))

[TexasGrillChef]

I love my S3. Sure it is "Crippled" and doesn't have all the features of the other Tivo's.

But at the time, other than the cable companies DVR.....

IT WAS THE ONLY DVR to offer HD with a Tivo interface. I am an HD nut... if it ain't in HD, it ain't worth watching. I don't like SD TV anymore. If they can't muster up the money to film the show in HD, then I ain't gonna waste my time with em. Just my desires, & values. Yours may be different. I Love HD!

So I NEED HD more than I need MRV or TivoToGo, or TivoBack. or..... etc....

I bought my S3 because of the HD and no other reason. Yes I would love to have everything else added. But I am patient. I will wait for those to come someday. At least I have HD! So to me yes, HD is more important to me than the other features so I bought and will wait.

For some HD viewing isn't as important to them as MRV, TTG etc... So for them, I say wait. However, If you NEED those features you maybe waiting a while. There is NO PROMISE OR GARUNTEE that those features will ever come. I hope they do, I want them too. But keep in mind their is no PROMISE that they will come to any device.

HD Television is coming. Like it or not. Sure it might still be 5 or 6 years away from 100% HD Broadcasts. But it is coming sooner or later. Like it or not. And eventually if you don't have a HD TV, or HD DVR or some form of converter you will just be out of luck.

One other thing to keep in mind. Content providers are scared of MRV, TTG and many of the other features missing on Tivo HD & S3. Until there is a way to prevent easy pirating of the shows we record, MRV, TTG will be limited or even non-existant.

If safeguards are not put in place BEFORE 100% HD/Digital broadcasting goes into effect we will lose ALL MRV, TTG etc... on all TIVOS! Keep that in mind!

But hey... This is a free country, If you don't want it, don't buy it. The ole saying goes... Buyer Beware. Do your research.

One other thing to keep in mind. Tivo is phasing out all Series 2, Their manufacturing facilites of the Series 2 are currently shutting down production, so once they sell out of their inventory. That will be it on the Series 2. No More! YEAH!

TexasGrillChef....

HD/Digital is coming! Like it or not!

[gardibolt]

Do the S3 TiVos degrade the picture as badly as the S2s? I have digital cable running dual through the TiVo and also direct to the television via a switcher so I can get HD and the TiVo really degrades the picture (SD) badly if you A/B them. I am not interested in trying an S3 if in combination with everything else it louses up the SD and HD picture. But if it doesn't, it might be worth the jump, especially since that'd free up a desperately needed input on the switcher.

[Martin Tupper]

S3's record digital channels, bit-for-bit, exactly as they are received. There is no loss of quality for digital channels on an S3 (or TiVo HD).

[cwoody222]

You have $3k to spend on HD DVRs and you're crying about paying full cost?

Cry me a river...

[jfh3]

One other thing to keep in mind. Tivo is phasing out all Series 2, Their manufacturing facilites of the Series 2 are currently shutting down production, so once they sell out of their inventory. That will be it on the Series 2. No More! YEAH!


Although this makes sense, you state it as fact - what is the source of this statement?

[jmoak]

One other thing to keep in mind. Tivo is phasing out all Series 2, Their manufacturing facilites of the Series 2 are currently shutting down production, so once they sell out of their inventory. That will be it on the Series 2. No More! YEAH!Although this makes sense, you state it as fact - what is the source of this statement?All series 2's???:confused:

Completely stop making the only box that will work with satellite receivers and settop boxes from mom 'n pop cable companies that were exempt from the cablecard dance?

I kinda find that hard to believe. I too am gonna need a link for that one.

[TiVotion]

http://www.bittermancircle.com/my%20images/BeatDeadHorse.gif

[vstone]

I think Tivo still has some single tuner S2's (not sure), but they haven't been able to import any since July 1 (actually I'm not of the date, but all analog OTA tuners must have ATSC tuners) since they don't have an ATSC OTA tuner.

[Jedi4141]

Morning All,
Just needed to get this off my chest, I have read a few threads and it seems that the limited functionality of the Series 3 has been going on for some time - Between purchasing (3) Series3 HD Tivos and (3) three year prepaid subscriptions I dropped $3,000 for these units that can't Transfer Programs (Multi-Room Viewing), TivoToGo, No Desktop Software and you all know the list goes on.

My question to all in the forum is: "Why should we PAY FULL COST for a subscription when the Series3 has been released with so many limited features?

I am sure Tivo needed to get this unit out to market ASAP but there is no additional functionality added to these units since I think JANUARY.

I am just totally frustrated with the way Series3 Owners are just given the same answer "We are working on it" and there is no end in sight when they will get the added features that the Series2 has.

I know all about the threads blaming CableLabs but don't you think that is getting kind of OLD NOW.

What are your thoughts, I'm sure I am not the only one that would like to get a better pricing structure based on the limited functionality of the Series3

Thanks for listening,
Tom :down:

I am a proud and happy Series 2 DT owner and Series 3 owner. I am curious when and where Tivo openly advertised MRV and TivoToGO for the S3? Waiting, waiting...................


I do not believe they ever,ever advertised these features on their ads. Why? Because they are not available on the S3. I think a lot of buyers ASSUMED they would be available from the launch. Would like these features? Sure. But it sounds like later than sooner and that is fine. The S3 blows away the comcast dvr I suffered with for 6 weeks. You got and received exactly what you paid for. A S3 than can record HD programming. Tivo never said diffently.