Where Can I Buy Hitachi "CinemaStar" 1TB (1000GB) Hard Drives??

[mchiles]

Does anyone know where one can buy 1TB (1000GB) Hitachi 'CinemaStar' 7K1000 Hard Drives?

I can find 1TB Hitachi DeskStars and UltraStar all day long. But I have not been able to find 1TB CinemaStars.

If I am going to upgrade the internal hard of my S3, I only want to do it once with the largest DVR specfic hard drive I can find. I also may buy a second hard drive and go all the way with an additional 1TB external drive also.

Thanks,

Mark

S3 - 250GB
Humax DRT800 - 320GB
Replay 5500 - 320GB
Sony XBR2 52" LCD HDTV

[dswallow]

http://computers.pricegrabber.com/hard-drives/m/36267958/skd=1/search=7k1000
http://castle.pricewatch.com/s/search.asp?s=7k1000

[mchiles]

Thanks, But I have already googled and shopzilla'ed and bizrate'ed the hard drive code a bunch of time

Pricewatch link above only displays "DeskStars" Not, CinemaStars.

ANACOM is the only place that advertises CinemaStars, but they never got any in.

Everyone seems to lump all 1TB Hitachi's into the same link.

The Hitachi codes for the CinemaStar are 0A35274 - HCS721010KLA330

[jlib]

The CinemaStar is an OEM-type drive not intended for retail. It may eventually be possible to obtain one in the secondary market but it will probably be more expensive than the commodity DeskStar drives. Additionally, you will receive no particular benefit from its DVR features, none of which the S3 can utilize. An detuned Deskstar is a practical equivalent and is readily available as you and dswallow observed .

[drew00001]

You can reduce the acoustics on a deskstar, but doing so does not make it a Cinemastar. I asked similar questions in another post and several others seemed to think getting a cinemastar was not necessary. I don't have the link but you should be able to find such by searching "cinemastar."

[jlib]

You can reduce the acoustics on a deskstar, but doing so does not make it a Cinemastar.From the perspective of the S3 there are no other differences so in a way it does make it a "CinemaStar".

[jtown]

I have a 1tb deskstar and, with acoustic management configured properly, it is very quiet. It makes slightly more noise than the S3's original drive but I only noticed the difference because I turned off every other device in the house specifically to listen for acoustic changes caused by the new drive. From more than 3' away and I can't tell the difference. With acoustic management maxed, the sound of the heads moving is a gentle swishing sound rather than the usual hard chatter.

Bottom line: Unless you use the S3 for a pillow, you won't be able to tell the difference between the deskstar (with acoustic management configured) and the original drive that's in the S3.

[kwasi]

Hi,
You can buy Hitachi 1TB CinemaStar 7K1000 Hard Drive from this Memory4Less site. Search these part numbers on this site.

Hitachi 1TB Hard Drive Part Numbers:
0A35274
HCS721010KLA330

I can't send you web address on this post thats why you can search Memory4Less on google, where you can find the web site.

[TydalForce]

It's here:
http://www.memory4less.com/m4l_itemdetail.asp?itemid=27319263

And it's only $758.09

That's more than I paid for my whole S3!

[mchiles]

Interesting... Their price is DOUBLE what others list them for.

I called memory4less and they insist that is the price and that they have them is stock.

I'll wait. Other suppliers are supposed to be getting in some stock in the next few weeks at a more reasonable ~$375 per drive.

[jlib]

Interesting... Their price is DOUBLE what others list them for.Who else lists them (HCS721010KLA330) for sale?

[MikeMacMan]

From the perspective of the S3 there are no other differences so in a way it does make it a "CinemaStar".

I want a CinemaStar because I want a drive that is made for 24/7/365 use for a long period of time (years). I don't understand how much difference there is between a "regular drive" and a "24/7" drive. The FAQ on this forum on external drives recommends a "24/7 drive". I am just worried because there is no way to back this up. If that drive fails you lose all recordings contained on it.

[jlib]

I want a CinemaStar because I want a drive that is made for 24/7/365 use for a long period of time (years). I don't understand how much difference there is between a "regular drive" and a "24/7" drive. The FAQ on this forum on external drives recommends a "24/7 drive". I am just worried because there is no way to back this up. If that drive fails you lose all recordings contained on it.There is no such thing as a "24/7 drive". It is just a made-up concept. A warm fuzzy if you will. At least none of the manufacturers use it or any similar notion. The only difference between the CinemaStar and the DeskStar is the firmware.

[MikeMacMan]

There is no such thing as a "24/7 drive". It is just a make-up concept. A warm fuzzy if you will. At least none of the manufacturers use it or any similar notion. The only difference between the CinemaStar and the DeskStar is the firmware.


From the Series 3 eSATA FAQ:

29. What are recommended drives to use with a separate eSATA enclosure?

Members concerned about long-term reliability should choose a drive certified for 24/7 operation.

[c3]

From the Series 3 eSATA FAQ:

29. What are recommended drives to use with a separate eSATA enclosure?

Members concerned about long-term reliability should choose a drive certified for 24/7 operation.

From FAQ 25: "Ultimately, one must decide whether they are willing to pay a premium for extra 'peace of mind.'"

Salesmen tell you how reliable the products are, and then they turn around to sell you extended warranties.

[jlib]

From the Series 3 eSATA FAQ:

29. What are recommended drives to use with a separate eSATA enclosure?

Members concerned about long-term reliability should choose a drive certified for 24/7 operation.Even a manufacturer's so-called Enterprise level drives aren't certified for 24/7 usage as opposed to their more mainstream offerings. An Enterprise drive will have more performance for sure (performance unneeded by the S3, by the way) but none of the manufacturers imply, let alone certify, that even their low-end drives are not capable of 24/7 usage.

Western Digital even says (http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1386&p_created=1126195553&p_sid=Ve8r75Hi&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ 9ODMmcF9wcm9kcz0wJnBfY2F0cz0wJnBfcHY9JnBfY3Y9JnBfc2VhcmNoX3R 5cGU9YW5zd2Vycy5zZWFyY2hfZm5sJnBfcGFnZT0xJnBfc2VhcmNoX3RleHQ 9MjQvNw**&p_li=&p_topview=1) it is less stressful to leave their external drive (which like most manufacturers contains one of their lower end drives) on 24/7, athough perhaps in alignment with "green" responsibility they do recommend to turn them off when not in use but there is no suggestion that that will make them last longer:
"The initial power-on process is generally harder on the internal components of a hard drive than spinning for extended periods. However, Western Digital drives are designed to handle either scenario."
Hitachi does include an availability spec for their drives (or at least used to) and lists it as 24/7 for their mainstream drives, the same as their Enterprise drives. Certification implies a distinction. If even their low end drives have 24/7 availability what is the distinction? And maybe at one time small 2.5" drives weren't intended for 24/7 usage but even that is not true anymore (http://www.hitachigst.com/portal/site/en/template.MAXIMIZE/menuitem.05e64950d328b1ae282c8d06eac4f0a0/?javax.portlet.tpst=a17e467ac2019f9e282c8d06eac4f0a0_ws_MX&javax.portlet.prp_a17e467ac2019f9e282c8d06eac4f0a0_viewID=co ntent&javax.portlet.prp_a17e467ac2019f9e282c8d06eac4f0a0_docName=2 0030723.html&javax.portlet.prp_a17e467ac2019f9e282c8d06eac4f0a0_folderPat h=%2Fhgst%2Faboutus%2Fpress%2Finternal_news%2F&beanID=1539287960&viewID=content&javax.portlet.begCacheTok=token&javax.portlet.endCacheTok=token).

There may be some quality and reliability differences between models and manufacturers but the ability of a modern drive to operate 24/7 is not one of them.

[drew00001]

Newegg.com now has 3 versions of Hitachi's 1gb drive: 2 deskstar's and an ultrastar. The prices range from $359 to $399. Does anyone know if the Ultrastar will be better for a S3 upgrade or eSata. I don't otherwise plan on paying the extreme premium for the Cinemastar.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2000150014+103530090&name=800GB+and+higher

[jlib]

The UltraStar is overkill. What is the difference between the other 2 DeskStars? They are both listed as bare drives so the difference is not the retail package.

Edit: Newegg has the DeskStar with the 0A34915 SKU mislabled. It is the retail box package not the OEM bare drive. They are both the same drive. The cheaper one has no box and no cables are furnished.

[drew00001]

The UltraStar is overkill. What is the difference between the other 2 DeskStars? They are both listed as bare drives so the difference is not the retail package.

Edit: Newegg has the DeskStar with the 0A34915 SKU mislabled. It is the retail box package not the OEM bare drive. They are both the same drive. The cheaper one has no box and no cables are furnished.

The Ultrastar is $399 on Newegg and the Cinemastar is $758.09 on memory4less.com. Which one is overkill? ;)

[SCSIRAID]

Newegg.com now has 3 versions of Hitachi's 1gb drive: 2 deskstar's and an ultrastar. The prices range from $359 to $399. Does anyone know if the Ultrastar will be better for a S3 upgrade or eSata. I don't otherwise plan on paying the extreme premium for the Cinemastar.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2000150014+103530090&name=800GB+and+higher

Ultrastar and other 'near line storage/enterprise' drives have accelerometers and software for compensating for RV (rotational vibration). The base drives are sensitive to vibration from other drives or even system fans. SAS drives in the same enclosure as SATA drives can vibrate the crud out of a 'desktop' SATA drive. S3 is a very controlled environment and shouldnt need the additional RV tolerance.

[MikeMacMan]

Ultrastar and other 'near line storage/enterprise' drives have accelerometers and software for compensating for RV (rotational vibration). The base drives are sensitive to vibration from other drives or even system fans. SAS drives in the same enclosure as SATA drives can vibrate the crud out of a 'desktop' SATA drive. S3 is a very controlled environment and shouldnt need the additional RV tolerance.

My only concern is if the Ultrastar would be more reliable (longer lasting) than the Deskstar for the Tivo3? I am willing to spend $40 extra for better reliability.

I would assume yes. It has a 1.2 Million MTBF and a 5 year warranty. The only thing that concerns me is it is meant for "lower duty cycle storage". That makes me think it is not meant for constant use and would be worse for a Tivo.

I have lost hard drives before... and losing all my Tivo will recordings would make me cry :(

[c3]

I have lost hard drives before... and losing all my Tivo will recordings would make me cry :(

Any drive can fail at any time. A RAID1/5/etc. system can drastically reduce the probability, but it's not 100% safe, either.

[MikeMacMan]

Any drive can fail at any time. A RAID1/5/etc. system can drastically reduce the probability, but it's not 100% safe, either.

I understand that. I'm basically asking: Would a Deskstar or an Ultrastar have a lower probability of failing when used with a S3? Thanks.

[jlib]

I understand that. I'm basically asking: Would a Deskstar or an Ultrastar have a lower probability of failing when used with a S3? Thanks.In the unchallenging and unstressful environment of the S3 it is hard to tell from the specs that Hitachi offers. It is not clear that even the increased warranty can be taken as a proxy for more reliability in a non-enterprise environment. The specifications are for the most part identical (http://www.hitachigst.com/portal/site/en/index.jsp?productnameold=&sort=&epi-content=GENERIC&beanID=1061764966&viewID=result_view&modelnumber=HUA721010KLA330&modelnumber=HDS721010KLA330&productname=&Compare+Again=Compare+Again). The low-end SATA UltraStars are essentially DeskStars with RVS (http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/50D6C79F1E3F024B87256C470074569D/$file/WP_RVS_25March.pdf) (what SCSIRAID was talking about earlier).

Don't be troubled by the term "lower duty cycle". They are not talking about needing to turn a welder off for a few minutes to cool down between uses or anything like that. All that means in this context is that the performance is less than the more traditional SCSI enterprise drives such as the other UltraStar models that can handle more accesses and data throughput in a given amount of time. So, for example, it might me a more appropriate drive for a simple file server rather than a corporate database server. There is no implication whatsoever that it is not designed for constant use or that its performance is not many time greater than the requirements of the S3.

A more important question is to find out if acoustic management as provided by the Hitachi Feature Tool will work with drives with RVS such as the UltraStar A7K1000. The specifications are oddly silent on acoustic management which on the DeskStar is a major feature. Because of the way the specs are worded I have a suspicion that gaining unneeded RVS loses needed silent seek (which in the server room would be unimportant). This is something you should find out from Hitachi before deciding the 2 year extra warranty is worth the $40.

[MikeMacMan]

I didn't even consider acoustics with the UltraStar. Good point. With the all the suspicions I have concerning the UltraStar I have decided on the DeskStar. Thanks for the information.

[subspace100]

Anyone know of a place to get the CinemaStar 1TB drive for under $500?

[jlib]

Anyone know of a place to get the CinemaStar 1TB drive for under $500?Not too many people would pay $499 for one if ever available when the equivalent DeskStar is $150 less. In any case, you will never find it on the mass market because dealers can't just call up their distributor and order a few hundred. They have to buy them on the secondary market from an OEM purchaser or perhaps buy them from Hitachi in OEM quantities. So, the law of supply and demand comes into play. The one current retail source thinks the supply warrants a $409 premium over the nearly identical DeskStar. Since you have to pay that if you want one there is no pressure for lower prices. Which begs the question: Why would you want one at any premium?

[mchiles]

I have been working with Hitachi Storage Technologies to make CinemaStar hard drives available in single quanities to the general TiVo upgrading public.

In the next few weeks, Hitachi 1Tb CinemaStar hard drives should become generally available at about a $20-$25 premium over 1TB DeskStar drives.

I will post more when I learn more.

mchiles

[subspace100]

I have been working with Hitachi Storage Technologies to make CinemaStar hard drives available in single quanities to the general TiVo upgrading public.

In the next few weeks, Hitachi 1Tb CinemaStar hard drives should become generally available at about a $20-$25 premium over 1TB DeskStar drives.

I will post more when I learn more.

mchiles


Thanks mchiles! I look forward to more information on availability.

[c3]

In the next few weeks, Hitachi 1Tb CinemaStar hard drives should become generally available at about a $20-$25 premium over 1TB DeskStar drives.

What's the benefit of paying that $20-$25 premium?

BTW, if you don't need to upgrade right away, the WD Cavier GP line looks very nice. Much less power and much quieter, at least on the specs.

[SCSIRAID]

What's the benefit of paying that $20-$25 premium?

BTW, if you don't need to upgrade right away, the WD Cavier GP line looks very nice. Much less power and much quieter, at least on the specs.

About the only thing would be avoiding the step of turning on the acoustic management feature of the Deskstar.

[drew00001]

I have been working with Hitachi Storage Technologies to make CinemaStar hard drives available in single quanities to the general TiVo upgrading public.

In the next few weeks, Hitachi 1Tb CinemaStar hard drives should become generally available at about a $20-$25 premium over 1TB DeskStar drives.

I will post more when I learn more.

mchiles

I appreciate the information but am more concerned when we will stop having to pay a GB premium on 750GB and 1TB drives. I expect such will be when there is more competition at this level. Is this correct?

[dswallow]

I appreciate the information but am more concerned when we will stop having to pay a GB premium on 750GB and 1TB drives. I expect such will be when there is more competition at this level. Is this correct?
There's always a premium on the largest model drives. The premium on 750GB/1TB models will disappear when the next capacity increase occurs.

[jfh3]

Since many have used the Deskstar 7K1000 drives with no problem, that's the route I'm going, especially at $280 or less:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=361501

[RandyMeinke]

There are two CinemaStar 1TB drives available at aztekcomputers. I received one yesterday and installed it in an Antec MX-1. No problems at all. It looks like the drive is starting to be available to us little guys. I like the fact that it is designed to be used in a DVR.

[jlib]

...It looks like the drive is starting to be available to us little guys...But at a significant $134 premium to the DeskStar, but at least much better now than the $478 premium of the original source.

[drew00001]

But at a significant $134 premium to the DeskStar . . .

BB no longer has the 1TB Deskstars for $399, so the differential is closer to $50.

[jlib]

It was too good to last. :( But hey, the Samsung 3-platter (yes, 3) F1 with very impressive specs is supposed to start shipping this month. That should also put pricing pressure on the 1TB field.

[RandyMeinke]

But at a significant $134 premium to the DeskStar, but at least much better now than the $478 premium of the original source.
AZTEKCOMPUTERS has them for 414.70

[c3]

AZTEKCOMPUTERS has them for 414.70

which is too high for a 1TB drive.

[DirkSwizzler]

Price Guide Network has them for $376.99. Got mine on wednesday after giving up on aztek computers ever shipping my order out.

http://www.priceguidenetwork.com/computer-component/hitachi-1tb-sata-3g-cinemastar-storage-7200-rpm-32mb-cache-bare-drive.html

[c3]

No need to buy this drive when you can get the WD 1TB for $260 at Best Buy. Lower power consumption and probably quieter as well.

[larrs]

No need to buy this drive when you can get the WD 1TB for $260 at Best Buy. Lower power consumption and probably quieter as well.
+1

[lessd]

No need to buy this drive when you can get the WD 1TB for $260 at Best Buy. Lower power consumption and probably quieter as well.

I have both and the WD is quieter and cooler, if their is no long term bad TiVo effects using this drive the WD 1Tb is big winner.

[RandyMeinke]

Since this thread started out about the CinemaStar 1TB Drive, I would like to report no problems at all using a CinemaStar with an Antec MX-1 enclosure after a month of use.

[Dave in Phoenix]

Price Guide Network has them for $376.99. Got mine on wednesday after giving up on aztek computers ever shipping my order out.
Thank YOU !!!!

I could care less if I pay a bit more I want the Cinemastar!

I was concerned about the AZTEKCOMPUTERS that has them for 414.70, now down $2 more because their Mfg No is NOT the right model - I suspect it is the DesksTOP model although its the wrong code for that also.

As someone earlier said, The Hitachi codes for the CinemaStar are 0A35274 - HCS721010KLA330 and that is the SKU code (first part) on the PriceGuideNetwork site for only $376.99. And they show 30 available. Well now 29 after I ordered.

Will not get the Antex MX-1

[wierdo]

Just FWIW, I've never found any difference at all between "enterprise" and "desktop" drives. They all have have a similar short term failure rate, and after that they rarely die until after 3 years, when the mortality rate starts increasing again. 10k, 7200, 5400, they are all the same in that respect.

You can spend more if you like, but it's like buying an extended warranty.

FWIW, the WD is incredibly quiet. I didn't enable AAM or anything and it's quieter than anything else in my HT stack, even with the S3's cover off! I really should put it back on, but I haven't because I'd have to turn off the TiVo. :p

[wgw]

I found that AAM was already enabled out of the box on the WD 1TB GP drive. No problems or complaints with it so far. Can't tell any difference in Tivo operation between the WD and HT 1TB drives. Both work fine and are very quiet.

[wierdo]

I found that AAM was already enabled out of the box on the WD 1TB GP drive. No problems or complaints with it so far. Can't tell any difference in Tivo operation between the WD and HT 1TB drives. Both work fine and are very quiet.
Being a 5400 RPM drive, the WD probably runs cooler, which should be good for longevity, although in reality I've had stone cold drives die after a few weeks and blazing hot ones never fail in service. I have an old 10GB IBM Deskstar that was on 24/7 for 7 years (aside from power outages and a couple of moves) and still worked when I decided it should be replaced before it failed. Through most of its life it was very poorly cooled and was very hot to the touch.

[aaronwt]

It was too good to last. :( But hey, the Samsung 3-platter (yes, 3) F1 with very impressive specs is supposed to start shipping this month. That should also put pricing pressure on the 1TB field.

WOW! 3 platters?!? I thought the 4 platter WD drive was impressive. The Hitachi is a five platter design isn't it?
EIther way my two 1TB Hitachi drives have been fine and my 1TB WD has been fine. I would prefer the WD drive only because they run a lottle cooler. I still have another 1TB drive that I need to install sometime to replace the low capacity 500GB drive in one of my S3 boxes.

[dswartz]

Wow. 1GB. Just... Wow :)

[wgw]

Being a 5400 RPM drive, the WD probably runs cooler, which should be good for longevity, although in reality I've had stone cold drives die after a few weeks and blazing hot ones never fail in service. I have an old 10GB IBM Deskstar that was on 24/7 for 7 years (aside from power outages and a couple of moves) and still worked when I decided it should be replaced before it failed. Through most of its life it was very poorly cooled and was very hot to the touch.

I thought I read that the WD was variable 5400-7200.

I know what you mean about the IBM's. I had a 14GB that would never die. I eventually retired it simply because it was too small to be useful anymore. It's still laying around here somewhere if someone wants to buy an antique in good working condition. ;)

[jlib]

I thought I read that the WD was variable 5400-7200.Its an unfortunate marketing obfuscation. The Green series models individually range from 5400 to 7200RPM. They are not variable. By applying that spec to the entire line you really don't know what you are getting which is WD's intent. The most important spec for the line is its "Greeness." The performance of each model is compromised in order to get stellar energy use stats. The larger the drive the slower it will need to natively spin to get low energy use.

Storage Review determined through tests and information gleaned from interviews with WD that the 1GB model is closer to a 5400RPM drive. For our purposes this is actually a good thing since it is pretty much impossible to find large desirable 5400RPM drives any more.

[wgw]

Thanks jlib, the Storage Review article was very interesting.

Apparently some people are even upping the voltage to increase the rpm's. One reviewer on newegg said if you increase voltage to 18 volts it will increase rpm's to 13,000. Never heard of doing that to a hard drive.

I liked the power measurements they reported in the article. I don't know how robust the Tivo power supply is, but if they are questionable, I suppose the power savings could possibly improve overall performance of the Tivo. The HT uses nearly 7 watts more that the WD.

[c3]

Apparently some people are even upping the voltage to increase the rpm's. One reviewer on newegg said if you increase voltage to 18 volts it will increase rpm's to 13,000. Never heard of doing that to a hard drive.
This is the most important part of that review:
0 out of 30 people found this review helpful.

[vstone]

...Apparently some people are even upping the voltage to increase the rpm's. One reviewer on newegg said if you increase voltage to 18 volts it will increase rpm's to 13,000. Never heard of doing that to a hard drive.
...Wow! That's a great idea! Find the computer part most likely to fail and increase it's likelihood of failure while invalidating the warranty.

[c3]

Come on, people. This 13,000 RPM stuff is just a joke.

[hastypete]

Are you sure that wasn't an April 1st thing? The speed of the HD is not related to input voltage. There is a motor controller that regulates the speed.

[wgw]

Come on, people. This 13,000 RPM stuff is just a joke.

lol. Oh come on. I know for a fact that everything anyone says on the internet is true. :o

[sfhub]

I swapped the 12v and 5v leads on the S3 power supply connector and now pixelation is gone and MRV works. This is awesome. Thanks for the pointer. I was pulling my hair out before! I guess the Comcast engineer was right when he said it was a problem with the TiVo and not the CableCARDs.

[c3]

I swapped the 12v and 5v leads on the S3 power supply connector .....

In 1992, I bought a 500MB hard drive for $1,000 and a tower case. When I powered it on, smoke came out of the hard drive. It turned out that the 12V and 5V wires were swapped at the power connector. Fortunately both items were purchased from the same store, so they were replaced without charge.

[trunksy]

I have been working with Hitachi Storage Technologies to make CinemaStar hard drives available in single quanities to the general TiVo upgrading public.

In the next few weeks, Hitachi 1Tb CinemaStar hard drives should become generally available at about a $20-$25 premium over 1TB DeskStar drives.

I will post more when I learn more.

mchiles

Any updates to this? I'm interested in the newer Cinemastar 7K1000.C drives.