HELP! CableCards costing me $29.90 a Month!!

[pashasurf7873]

PLEASE GIVE ME ADVISE!!

I live in Hawaii, am with Time Warner Cable and was wondering if any Time Warner Cable customers have heard of this in the Mainland?

Here is a breakdown of the CableCard charges:

>Duplicate Service Charge: $8.00 a month per card
>HD Entertainment Package: $6.95 a month per card
>Total: $14.95 for each CableCard!!!!!

The CableCards are $3.10 each with no premium programming on them. To
receive the Digital Cable Service on the cards, the Duplicate Service
Fee of $8.00 would apply instead of the $3.10 card charge. The HD package is not included in the duplicate service fee. It is charged per card.
So in Hawaii it costs $29.90 per month just to enable the use of my beloved TIVO S3.
When I called and then emailed to complain this is the response I got:


Aloha!

1. as I stated previously, the Duplicate service charge does not include
the HD Entertainment Package. The Duplicate service charge only includes
the equipment rental fee, digital cable service, and any premium movie
channels in your subscription. Each device that is receiving the HD
Entertainment Package is billed for that package.

2. Yes, we are aware of the current limitations of the technology. You
can install a single CableCard in your Tivo and only record one channel
at a time.

3. The CableCards are billed for each device, each CableCard is a
separate device. You could obtain the HD DVR without the duplicate
service charge, however you would still be billed for the HD
Entertainment package which is required to have any HD cable box.

You could also rent the CableCards for $3.10 each, however they would
only be able to receive the Standard Cable Service. They would not
receive the authorization to receive the HD Entertainment Package, the
Digital Cable Package, nor the HBO or Showtime.

4. Because that is how the company decided to do the billing.

5. Everything is NOT going HD. That is a common misconception. HD and
Digital are two very different things. The FCC is only requiring a
change to Digital, not HD.

6. I am sorry, but it does not appear the same from our point of view.
We bill per device that receives premium programming in the home. If you
TiVo requires 2 of those devices then the account should be charged for
each one.

If you have any further questions, please feel free to e-mail us again
or contact our Customer Care Department at the appropriate number below.
When replying to this e-mail, please include this message as well as all
previous correspondence regarding this issue.


Cable TV or Internet:
Billing: 643-2100
Sales: 643-2337
Repair: 643-2300


Thank you,
Nick S.
Oceanic Time Warner Cable

[jrm01]

Didn't you post this exact same question 7 months ago"

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=321119&highlight=hawaii

Have you been paying this charge for 7 months?

[pashasurf7873]

hate to say it but yes it's me and I have been paying this whole time. It kills me and I reposted hoping I'd find someone who could give me advice on what to do.
I have talked to numerous people at TWC here and they won't budge. My monthly bill (with internet) is $188.90. It just doesn't seem right.
:mad:

[jrm01]

Your local Franchise Authority (local municipal government) should have some answers for you as I would think that they have had many complaints. The Franchise Authority in many cases is listed on the cable bill.

[jrm01]

Response to the e-mail that you got:

1. as I stated previously, the Duplicate service charge does not include
the HD Entertainment Package. The Duplicate service charge only includes
the equipment rental fee, digital cable service, and any premium movie
channels in your subscription. Each device that is receiving the HD
Entertainment Package is billed for that package.

The Tivo is only one device, no matter how many Ccs are in it.

2. Yes, we are aware of the current limitations of the technology. You
can install a single CableCard in your Tivo and only record one channel
at a time.

Not sure what question this was answering, but of course this is not an acceptable answer.

3. The CableCards are billed for each device, each CableCard is a
separate device. You could obtain the HD DVR without the duplicate
service charge, however you would still be billed for the HD
Entertainment package which is required to have any HD cable box.

Again, the Device is the Tivo, not the CC.

You could also rent the CableCards for $3.10 each, however they would
only be able to receive the Standard Cable Service. They would not
receive the authorization to receive the HD Entertainment Package, the
Digital Cable Package, nor the HBO or Showtime.

This does not make any sense. If you want only Standard Cable you don't need any CC.


4. Because that is how the company decided to do the billing.

Not sure what your question was, but the answer is insulting.

5. Everything is NOT going HD. That is a common misconception. HD and
Digital are two very different things. The FCC is only requiring a
change to Digital, not HD.

Their clarification is as wrong as your apparent statement. The FCC is only mandating OTA Digital. There is no mandate for cable companies to go Digital. This is their choice.

6. I am sorry, but it does not appear the same from our point of view.
We bill per device that receives premium programming in the home. If you
TiVo requires 2 of those devices then the account should be charged for
each one.

Once again they are confusing what is the Device. If they want to bill per CC, why even use the word device?

[rmassey]

My monthly bill (with internet) is $188.90. It just doesn't seem right.

Holly cripe, that's a frickin' car payment - cancel some service, go OTA only and get a life :D

[Lensman]

Their day of reckoning will come with the emergence of alternate fiber to the home vendors. Actually, the mere threat of such seems to have improved service here in New Jersey. Though actually it's more than a threat because some areas actually have FiOS.

It's sad. They're going to build up so much ill-will in their captive customer base that they're not going to know what's hit them when competition arrives.

[cokyq]

As much as I hate not getting Discovery HD channel, and with a monthly bill of $96 (after a $10 monthly discount which TWC gave me to help me during my unemployment period), I decided it was too much money and cancelled my service 10 days ago. (No way I would pay over $180/month for cable/internet service - you need to do some research and find an alternate, cheaper source for your internet).

I switched my internet service to ATT which is currently offering a 3 month free for people switching from cable, and after calculating the rebate, my monthly cost for the first year is around $30 (and that is including a basic phone line).

The quality of the over the air signal here in the Dallas Fort Worth area is excellent. The picture in the HD channels is superb! Much better than cable.

My 2 cents...

[PeytonRE]

As much as I hate not getting Discovery HD channel, and with a monthly bill of $96 (after a $10 monthly discount which TWC gave me to help me during my unemployment period), I decided it was too much money and cancelled my service 10 days ago. (No way I would pay over $180/month for cable/internet service - you need to do some research and find an alternate, cheaper source for your internet).

I switched my internet service to ATT which is currently offering a 3 month free for people switching from cable, and after calculating the rebate, my monthly cost for the first year is around $30 (and that is including a basic phone line).

The quality of the over the air signal here in the Dallas Fort Worth area is excellent. The picture in the HD channels is superb! Much better than cable.

My 2 cents...


I was in the same type of situation that Pashasurf7873 was in that my total bill (cable, Premium channels, internet & phone) was in the $200 range here in Huntsville, AL with Knology. I went round and round with Knology for 3-4 months on their billing practice concerning the cablecards -- I talked to several Customer Service Reps and their Supervisors and kept getting different answers and different bills. I finally got fed up and reduced my package to the lowest levels for phone, cable and Hi-speed internet, this cut my total bill by more than 50% and I put up an antennae for OTA and got a better signal than the cable.

The last excuse I got from Knology was that they had to bill the CableCards separately because they could not know what the customer did with them and they might be using them in multiple devices -- of course, they would not take my word for it when I said that they both went in one device and that their technician was the one that put them there. Maybe they will come around once the digital signal is more prevalent/mandated and cablecards are more utilized; however, I am not going to hold my breath...

[classicsat]

The Tivo is only one device, no matter how many Ccs are in it.


No, the cablecard is the device they authorize, regardless if a device requires two, or you have the two cards in separate things.

It makes perfect sense to charge twice to provision and service two cablecards.

Now if they were charging "per outlet" one could argue one charge since the Series 3 TiVo uses only one outlet.

What makes no sense is billing for HD services per card. You should be paying for all programming fees for your home once, and on top of that the cost to rent each device, and to authorize each device after the first. And $8.00 is a bit high for a service mirroring fee. Satellite does something like $4.99, which is pretty fair.

[sfhub]

The last excuse I got from Knology was that they had to bill the CableCards separately because they could not know what the customer did with them and they might be using them in multiple devices -- of course, they would not take my word for it when I said that they both went in one device and that their technician was the one that put them there. Maybe they will come around once the digital signal is more prevalent/mandated and cablecards are more utilized; however, I am not going to hold my breath...
Actually they do know that you are using the cards in a TiVo because the CableCARD Host IDs that they pair with are registered to TiVo.

[MickeS]

This does not make any sense. If you want only Standard Cable you don't need any CC.
If you want the "standard" digital cable, in other words the unencrypted digital channels, you will unfortunately need CableCARDs in most cases, since the S3 does not always have the guide data for those channels otherwise. The channels are still received fine without CC, but become nearly useless anyway because of the missing guide data.

So I guess in a sense they were correct...

And I REALLY wish TiVo would figure out how to get those channels into the guide correctly without using CC.

[wierdo]

(No way I would pay over $180/month for cable/internet service - you need to do some research and find an alternate, cheaper source for your internet).

I switched my internet service to ATT which is currently offering a 3 month free for people switching from cable, and after calculating the rebate, my monthly cost for the first year is around $30 (and that is including a basic phone line).

DSL is not equivalent to a cable modem in most places. Until cable became available to me, I had the highest speed package AT&T could deliver to me (3Mbps). Now, for $20 more a month, I get 4 times the download speed and 4 times the upload speed (which is more useful to me than the 12Mbps downloads). Additionally, I receive the full speed for which I pay from Cox, unlike SBC, who through their choice of using PPPoE delivered a line only really capable of 2.5Mbps.

And yes, I do pay about $180 a month for cable and internet, but that includes all the premiums. It's essentially the same cost as DirecTV was, aside from the increased internet charge.

[cgould]

No, the cablecard is the device they authorize, regardless if a device requires two, or you have the two cards in separate things.

It makes perfect sense to charge twice to provision and service two cablecards.

Now if they were charging "per outlet" one could argue one charge since the Series 3 TiVo uses only one outlet.

What makes no sense is billing for HD services per card. You should be paying for all programming fees for your home once, and on top of that the cost to rent each device, and to authorize each device after the first. And $8.00 is a bit high for a service mirroring fee. Satellite does something like $4.99, which is pretty fair.

No, the device should be the single Tivo, for equivalency with their dual-tuner HD DVR (which does NOT get charged twice.) There should be something in the FCC regs, not that anyone bothers to enforce...
They can charge for rental cost certainly for two cards, but not for service, for equivalency.

Agreed re HD service charge, but at least here Oceanic TW Hawaii is consistent... they charge the HD service fee for ANY HD device/tuner(outlet) you get, even ones you get from them, so it is indeed an HD service fee (just per outlet). Comcast's fee is(was) for HD equipment, since HD STB is more expensive, but if you had your own equipment it was free... TW, as they say, "sees/chooses to bill differently".

You can't get OTA in most of Hawaii due to iron-rich mountains/poor reception (which is why most get cable anyway.) It's also problematic getting satellite/DirectTV, since most of the HD birds are located/facing the wrong way (aiming at the mainland).

Many of the Hawaii stations don't even have/broadcast HD yet anyway (several say don't have the HD storage equipment), so this extra fee is a real insult since it only gives like 1 or 2 broadcast channels!
Strangely, Oceanic was "high tech" otherwise faster than Comcast/AT&T here in the Bay Area, w/ more advanced features up til now... Comcast caught up w/ HD over cable and such.

As they say, "luck you live Hawaii" :(

[CharlesH]

Additionally, I receive the full speed for which I pay from Cox, unlike SBC, who through their choice of using PPPoE delivered a line only really capable of 2.5Mbps.AT&T seems to be pushing the ability to provide 6Mbs DSL pretty hard; it probably comes along for the ride as they build out for their TV service. Mine cost $34.99/mo, and Comcast is $42.95. Obviously, YMMV. And BTW, PPPoE has very little to do with the DSL overhead. PPPoE costs 8 bytes per 1500 byte packet; it's the ATM encapsulation inherent to DSL that is the bulk of the cost, with 5 bytes per 53 byte cell, and you will pay this even if you manage to get a static IP, non-PPPoE line.

[oldnacl]

Comcast raised my fees for the TiVo from $5.50/mo to $21.90 July 1st and then added the STB fee (which I didn't have) to the cable charge, effectively raising the rate for using my TiVo to $26.90. Additionally I was paying $19.95 a month for digital service and 42.95 a month for internet service. Not quite as bad as your rates but still enough to have me march into the office with CCs in hand and cancel ALL my Comcast service including Internet.
I then signed up for AT&T DSL, got a $125 rebate for switching from cable and cut my monthly internet cost in half (for the first year, anyway - 25% cheaper after that). I then returned the Tivo to Costco, went back to the cable office and picked up a SA8300HD box that costs me 11.95 a month plus $19.95 for digital service. My basic cable service is covered by my HOA fees. Cable companies have us by the short hairs, forcing us to use their rental equipment or pay dearly to do otherwise. In my case, they won - unlike Geo Bush, I don't have the funds to fight a lost war.

[mattack]

I think the original poster should complain to the FCC.

[pashasurf7873]

You can't get OTA in most of Hawaii due to iron-rich mountains/poor reception (which is why most get cable anyway.) It's also problematic getting satellite/DirectTV, since most of the HD birds are located/facing the wrong way (aiming at the mainland). :(

Thanks for all the input, as stated above, we don't have too many alternatives to cable, especially with an upgraded S3 with Lifetime subscription.
PS to be fair we subscribe to numerous pay station packages which adds to the high bill,but it's the principle of the double charging that makes it so hard to swallow.

[wierdo]

AT&T seems to be pushing the ability to provide 6Mbs DSL pretty hard; it probably comes along for the ride as they build out for their TV service. Mine cost $34.99/mo, and Comcast is $42.95. Obviously, YMMV. And BTW, PPPoE has very little to do with the DSL overhead. PPPoE costs 8 bytes per 1500 byte packet; it's the ATM encapsulation inherent to DSL that is the bulk of the cost, with 5 bytes per 53 byte cell, and you will pay this even if you manage to get a static IP, non-PPPoE line.
FWIW, I'm 2kft from the remote terminal that serves me. Somewhere in the last 500 feet things go awry. At the box on the side of the building (sort of a demarc, I live in an apartment, only 5 or 6 years old), 3500 is the max attainable per the t-berd. Out at the next cross connect box, max attainable is 8000. It's not anything particular to my pair, either, as they tried several others. A tech spent a couple of hours messing with it to try and figure out what was wrong. I don't get that sort of service from the cable company, unfortunately. :(

DSL is incredibly hit and miss once you get over 3Mbps, in my experience. It'll work in some places while not in others for no particular reason. 1.5 is pretty robust, though. I had a 1.5/128 line for several years at somewhere around 15kft. That was direct from the CO.

In areas with U-Verse, if you can get the TV service, you'll also be able to get 6Mbps for Internet, at least if you subscribe to U-Verse. If not, you'll still be stuck on the old RT that is farther away from your location. No VDSL for you! ;) Of course, with VDSL's much lower tolerance for poor lines, I can't help but think that there will be U-Verse black holes in most cities that have it deployed. I've been a pessimist on the whole idea since the beginning, though, and that was before I tried to get 6Mbps DSL. ;)

[vstone]

Which channels do you really want? If you're happy with just the broadcast networks (not saying that you are) tell them you just want the basic tier (usually called the broadcast tier). Per CFR, the basic tier, which includes local broadcast stations, must be unencrypted and they probably can't charge you for the digital versions (HD or not).

Looking at Oceanic's lineup, that would say the 82-89 (SD) and 1003-1010 (HD) ought to be free. Maybe also 443 (PBS Kids)

[TostitoBandito]

Honestly, there is so much information here about what the cable companies should be (and are) charging you each month for 2 cablecards (generally $0 - $6 per month), that I don't really feel sorry for people who allow themselves to be gouged by the cable companies for several times that much worth of erroneous charges without protest. Why on earth do people go along with paying for all of these BS fees? Some of this is illegal. You work your way up the cableco food chain until you get to someone who can/will fix your problem. In the vast majority of cases, that should solve your problem.

[oldnacl]

Honestly, there is so much information here about what the cable companies should be (and are) charging you each month for 2 cablecards (generally $0 - $6 per month), that I don't really feel sorry for people who allow themselves to be gouged by the cable companies for several times that much worth of erroneous charges without protest. Why on earth do people go along with paying for all of these BS fees? Some of this is illegal. You work your way up the cableco food chain until you get to someone who can/will fix your problem. In the vast majority of cases, that should solve your problem.
Agreed, but sometimes it's just not feasible to fight with them - taking time off work and so on can eat up whatever you might gain through resolution, not to mention the frustration and irritation factors. In my case, Comcast won (but lost revenue overall) and I went back to some of their equipment. I'm not proud of it but at least I can watch the TV I want to without taking day after day off work and/or take abuse from incompetent CSRs on the phone or at the local office. To their credit, they have to put up with cr@p all day and I commend them for being as patient as they are when people ask, demand or scream for things they, by job description, are unable to give. I've always tried to take a reasonable approach and most of the time that works. When it doesn't I vote with my pocketbook. In my case Comcast now gets $32 monthly where, before the recent price increases, they got $60. So who really won?

[mattack]

Which channels do you really want? If you're happy with just the broadcast networks (not saying that you are) tell them you just want the basic tier (usually called the broadcast tier). Per CFR, the basic tier, which includes local broadcast stations, must be unencrypted and they probably can't charge you for the digital versions (HD or not).

But you'll need cablecards to use the digital versions as Tivo expected (i.e. not with manual recordings).

[donaudio]

I'm in the same boat with Pashasurf. Adelphia used to be my cable provider until Comcast took them over in Florida about 6 months ago. My cable bill has doubled since then and just July 1st it went up 40$. They charge $6 for 4 CC (1st one is free). $6.95 for each CC for HDTV. So that's 33.80 just for two Tivos. I just called my city and lodged a complaint. We'll see what happens. Don

[ldhurley]

Didn't you post this exact same question 7 months ago"


Have you been paying this charge for 7 months?

Exact same is redundant just like the post.

[wolflord11]

DSL is not equivalent to a cable modem in most places. Until cable became available to me, I had the highest speed package AT&T could deliver to me (3Mbps). Now, for $20 more a month, I get 4 times the download speed and 4 times the upload speed (which is more useful to me than the 12Mbps downloads). Additionally, I receive the full speed for which I pay from Cox, unlike SBC, who through their choice of using PPPoE delivered a line only really capable of 2.5Mbps.

You must be very lucky to get "The Full Speed" from your Cable Internet.

See, even the 3Mbps DSL beats Cable nearly everytime. A DSL line is for One and only One person only, whereas your 12Mbps Cable is not only shared between your Internet and Televisions (Cable TV), but all your Neighbours as well.

So, if you had One PC on, and a TV, and 10 of your Neigbours were all watching TV to, your Speed drops accordingly.

Thats where Cable gets you: yes they have 12Mbps Internet compared to the highest DSL at 6Mbps. What they do not tell you is your sharing it with probally 100 other people. :D

[wierdo]

You must be very lucky to get "The Full Speed" from your Cable Internet.

See, even the 3Mbps DSL beats Cable nearly everytime. A DSL line is for One and only One person only, whereas your 12Mbps Cable is not only shared between your Internet and Televisions (Cable TV), but all your Neighbours as well.

So, if you had One PC on, and a TV, and 10 of your Neigbours were all watching TV to, your Speed drops accordingly.

Thats where Cable gets you: yes they have 12Mbps Internet compared to the highest DSL at 6Mbps. What they do not tell you is your sharing it with probally 100 other people. :D
As I would be if I were using DSL. The aggregation merely happens in a different place.

BTW, television watching has absolutely nothing to do with the speed of your cable modem. The cable modems work on a dedicated frequency allocated only to cable modems. Similarly, the cable company's phone service runs on dedicated frequencies allocated only to the phone service.

At one time, thanks to very poor implementation by the cable operator where I lived, I was a complete DSL whore. I parroted lines like that all day long. Then I realized that it's meaningless drivel. Then I was exposed to a well implemented cable system.

The only time that your statement about sharing would be meaningful is if I were communicating solely between myself an another DSL customer on the same access concentrator. If I were running an offsite backup company, the dedicated bandwidth would be meaningful. Since I'm trying to access the Internet, it's not so important where the sharing begins.

Also, that 12Mbps connection I'm sharing is not a 12Mbps connection at all. It's a 42Mbps connection on which I'm rate limited by my modem to 12Mbps. Additionally, each node has several downstream channels.

Regardless of all that, in the real world, cable is faster for most people, like it or not. DSL is crap, not because of DSL itself, but because it's pointless. If you're willing to do the things necessary to bring DSL speeds into the tens of megabits, you might as well install fiber. The only exception to that, IMO, is in an MDU where the runs are short enough that VDSL will actually work reasonably well.

[Todd B.]

Your local Franchise Authority (local municipal government) should have some answers for you as I would think that they have had many complaints. The Franchise Authority in many cases is listed on the cable bill.
The appropriate regulatory authority to complain to would be the PUC.

(Wow, lame. This board won't let me post URL's until I've posted 5 times.) For the PUC, Google "Hawaii PUC" and click the first link.

It may also be of use to contact the CATV division of the DCCA:

Google "hawaii dcca catv" and click the first link.

Personally, I think the solution is for Oceanic to offer M-Cards. I called them this afternoon to inquire, but they do not currently have set plans to offer M-Cards. He indicated that they were working on it (and incorrectly stated that they had to do it due to government regulation), but no timeline yet.

While I was on the phone, I threw out the question about SDV. The guy said they just finished testing SDV in Mililani-Mauka, and are planning a wider roll-out across the state. He indicated that they would just be implementing it on the less-watched channels.

[Todd B.]

Their day of reckoning will come with the emergence of alternate fiber to the home vendors. Actually, the mere threat of such seems to have improved service here in New Jersey. Though actually it's more than a threat because some areas actually have FiOS.

It's sad. They're going to build up so much ill-will in their captive customer base that they're not going to know what's hit them when competition arrives.
Well, that's not going to happen here any time soon. Hawaiian Telcom will be lucky if they can find a way to remove their head from their ass anytime in the next 3 years. That said, they are still pursuing their IPTV rollout, after applying for a cable franchise license. They are currently saying that it will be ready in early 2008, but then, it's already been delayed 9(!) times. Also, AFAICT, they are not planning on rolling out fiber to the home. Most likely it will be delivered over copper using ADSL2+.

[megazone]

(Wow, lame. This board won't let me post URL's until I've posted 5 times.) Too many drive-by spammers - it was implemented for a reason, believe me.

You can always pop over to the testing forum, rattle off 5 posts, and come back. ;-)

[magnum68]

That's one of the many reasons I cancelled my move to Hawaii. The prices of everything down there is ridiculous.

magnum68

[camtui]

Personally, I think the solution is for Oceanic to offer M-Cards. I called them this afternoon to inquire, but they do not currently have set plans to offer M-Cards. He indicated that they were working on it (and incorrectly stated that they had to do it due to government regulation), but no timeline yet.

I just went to Oceanic Cable today (in Ala Moana Sears), and they told me they currently have M-cards. The lady said that I needed to call customer service and request them. She also said I would have to tell them the model # of the tivo (or HD device that would use the M-card...such as an HDTV). It's too bad that I only have the original S3, which currently DOESN'T support the M-card alone. I know that it would treat it as a S-card, needing two cards in order for it to work. I hope the update comes soon for the S3.

If I'm wrong about the S3 not supporting M-cards, please let me know. I'm waiting to order the M-card, so as to avoid the extra costs of another cable card with duplication fees.

[adrianblack]

That's one of the many reasons I cancelled my move to Hawaii. The prices of everything down there is ridiculous.

magnum68

Yeah, no kidding. In West Hollywood (Time Warner) the cable cards are only $1.75/ea with no other fees for duplicate service, additional outlets, etc ec. I had an expensive cable bill several months ago -- it would be about $90 including cable cards, HD package, all the non premiums and HBO ... I just found that insulting considering I only watch a small fraction of the channels.

Well, thanks to the great franchise agreement (West Hollywood rocks!) I now have $12/mos broadcast basic cable. It includes all the locals and then a smattering of digital channels including Discovery, NGC, TVLand, CNN, Food, A&E, Bravo and several others.

My total cable bill is now about $18 including the cable cards and taxes!! Sure I don't get Discovery HD or BBC America anymore, but you know what I did with part of the money I was saving?

Upped my Netflix subscription up to 4 movies at a time. I then took the 4th slot of my netflix and turned it into a special "TV-Show" queue. Loaded it up with TV shows and just watch all the HBO and other stuff that way.

Shows seem to come out so fast on DVD now -- plus I never have time to watch everything I want to watch when it airs, so I just ended up filling up my Tivo's drive.

This solution has been working great for me -- plus I'm sticking it to lame Time Warner by using up the "forced-on-them-by-the-city" $12/mos basic cable. Just a couple of miles away in Los Angeles, the cheapest "Broadcast-Basic" cable is around $20 and includes ONLY broadcast channels -- no cable channels at all.

Anyway, Netflix + Broadcast Basic Cable is under $50 --- compared to my old full cable + Netflix totalling about $110.

Some of you guys could probably do this too -- I tell you, it works. You can still find WAY too much to watch on TV with the lower plans and then netflix ... and who knows what I could spend the $720/yr I'm saving from cable? Hell, that's just $300 shy of that Vizio 1080p LCD TV on sale at Costco! All money Time Warner would be taking from me.