New TiVO Coming?

[hybucket]

Swanni at TV Predictions says to expect a HD TiVO, probably within the next three months, for $299. The link is here, if this works...
http://www.tvpredictions.com/askswanni071207.htm

[HDTiVo]

He must read gizmodo, the blogs and this forum. ;)

[Mike Lang]

I have all the info you guys need, I'm just not allowed to actually tell you any of it. :cool:

[Kablemodem]

I have all the info you guys need, I'm just not allowed to actually tell you any of it. :cool:

Just type it and you don't have to tell us anything.

[sandenurse]

I have all the info you guys need, I'm just not allowed to actually tell you any of it. :cool:

OK, we'll be nice. Just tell us WHEN we will KNOW the specifics. Some of us have to talk with Santa.

[Mike Lang]

It'll be old news by the time Santa rolls around. :)

[ncbagwell]

Mike - hearing anything on MRV/TTG/TTCB for the Series 3?

[ADG]

I have all the info you guys need, I'm just not allowed to actually tell you any of it. :cool:
Other than ego, why would you even bother to post something like that? If you have nothing to say, why not do just that?

[Kablemodem]

Other than ego, why would you even bother to post something like that? If you have nothing to say, why not do just that?

I think he said a lot.

[Mike Lang]

Other than ego, why would you even bother to post something like that? If you have nothing to say, why not do just that?

Just to see who would whine first. :p

[bidger]

So, you recant?

[jlib]

I have all the info you guys need, I'm just not allowed to actually tell you any of it. :cool:That's OK, just create a new account with a new alias and blab to your heart's content. :D

[steve614]

Mike - hearing anything on MRV/TTG/TTCB for the Series 3?
So far, bad news...

If you have nothing to say, why not do just that?

:(

[wolflord11]

Maybe they will be offering a Series 3 for $299.99

BUT: Instead of paying $12.99 a Month for a 3 Year Commitment, they will charge $32.99 a Month.

As for MRV/TTG/TTCB, we have already been told its coming some time be it in 2008, 2009 or somewhere around there :D

[bidger]

Maybe they will be offering a Series 3 for $299.99

BUT: Instead of paying $12.99 a Month for a 3 Year Commitment, they will charge $32.99 a Month.

Let me be the first to say, f*$% that.

How about this, drop all the hoopla crap and just let me record live TV in HD (include ATSC because I'm not going back to cable) to view when I want. No TTG/MRV/TiVoCast/Live365/etc., sh*t I really had no use for when I had a standalone, and let me do it for $79.95 per year or less. Maybe then I'll be interested.

[davezatz]

He must read gizmodo, the blogs and this forum. ;)

Yup.

[HDTiVo]

Yup.
Where's my beer???????? :)

[GoHokies!]

That's OK, just create a new account with a new alias and blab to your heart's content. :D
Because a moderator breaking the rules (one login per person) would be right up there with hinting at (what one would think is, or at least should be if this is true) NDA protected information.

[jrm01]

A major CE retailer was just notified that the new Tivo-lite will be in the store the week of August 5-12. It is currently named "Fusion", but will likely just be called Tivo HD. The specs on it are:

price: $299
source: Digital cable, digital antenna
NO THX certification
Dual tuner
Storage: 20 hrs HD, 180 hrs. SD
No front panel display
Standard remote

Support for SP, WL, KidZone, Online scheduling, Digital music player, Digital photo viewer, Home Movie sharing, Amazon Unbox, Univ Swivel Search

Both the S3 and Lite will have TTG and MRV PRIOR TO THE END OF 2007.


Based on this it seems the cost savings are:

1/2 the storage
No THX
Digital-only tuners
No front panel display
Standard remote (I assume this means the peanut)

[Arcady]

So I won't be able to tune any of the analog cable channels? (Most of my SD cable channels are non-digital.) If I can't record the Sci Fi Channel or other basic programming, it's fairly worthless to me.

I don't care about THX or the silly display on the front. And I can install a larger hard drive any time I like, so they could sell it with a 10gb drive for all I care.

[MickeS]

Based on this it seems the cost savings are:

1/2 the storage
No THX
Digital-only tuners
No front panel display
Standard remote (I assume this means the peanut)

I'm sorry, but... WTF? No analog tuner? That doesn't make any sense. It can't be right.

[cgould]

A major CE retailer was just notified that the new Tivo-lite will be in the store the week of August 5-12. It is currently named "Fusion", but will likely just be called Tivo HD. The specs on it are:

price: $299
source: Digital cable, digital antenna
NO THX certification
Dual tuner
Storage: 20 hrs HD, 180 hrs. SD
No front panel display
Standard remote

Support for SP, WL, KidZone, Online scheduling, Digital music player, Digital photo viewer, Home Movie sharing, Amazon Unbox, Univ Swivel Search

Both the S3 and Lite will have TTG and MRV PRIOR TO THE END OF 2007.


Based on this it seems the cost savings are:

1/2 the storage
No THX
Digital-only tuners
No front panel display
Standard remote (I assume this means the peanut)

What's the benefit if the HDD is the same size as Motorola 6412 Comcast DVR, when by then the Moto box will run Tivo software also? (and can record analog cable channels, and handle SDV/PPV/VOD)?
OK, it does the network stuff, but... this seems to be kind of cross-marketing...?

90% of the benefit of S3 over the Moto box is the bigger HDD and stable interface. Kind of hard to justify $300 price over a free Comcast DVR...
I'm all for cheaper & more Tivo boxes, just seems a bit strange planning...

but the TTG/MRV news if true is very welcome indeed (and that WOULD make a big difference to getting a real Tivo Lite box vs Comcast box.)

[jrm01]

I'm sorry, but... WTF? No analog tuner? That doesn't make any sense. It can't be right.
I agree. That is the way it was presented, but I'm hoping that it was done in error. I know it would save money (not much), but it's hard to believe they would cut this.

[DTG]

Based on this it seems the cost savings are:

1/2 the storage
No THX
Digital-only tuners
No front panel display
Standard remote (I assume this means the peanut)I'm sorry, but... .


WTF? No analog tuner? That doesn't make any sense. It can't be right.

I currently have Comcrap Extended Basic, and get every channel in digital except one very obscure PBS channel in analog. This did not increase my payment of about $40 per month, but is only available through a Cable card. And the quality is better than analog.

Since Comcrap wants to delete the analog channels, and probably will by 2010, this decision would eliminate one of 100 channels.

[jmpage2]

Will it have an eSATA port on it for external storage expansion? The version on Gizmodo gave some indication that this "S3 Lite" might have Cable Card 2.0 support also.

[HDTiVo]

Nice to see TiVo will be shipping the DVR I said 17 months ago they should make at the price I said 12 months ago they should charge.

More Signs of Lite (http://hdtivo.wordpress.com/2007/07/14/more-signs-of-lite/)

[Kablemodem]

Nice to see TiVo will be shipping the DVR I said 17 months ago they should make at the price I said 12 months ago they should charge.

More Signs of Lite (http://hdtivo.wordpress.com/2007/07/14/more-signs-of-lite/)

I wouldn't give that blog much credibility since the author labels the S3 a fiasco, which couldn't be further from the truth.

[jmpage2]

I wouldn't give that blog much credibility since the author labels the S3 a fiasco, which couldn't be further from the truth.

From a financial perspective it probably is a disaster. Weak sales of the S3 certainly haven't helped Tivo.

[Justin Thyme]

I'm sorry, but... WTF? No analog tuner? That doesn't make any sense. It can't be right.
I agree- As many of us here know- a very large percentage of channels in the "Digital" tier are actually delivered in Analog. About 85% of the channels I record are analog.

So I think someone's imagination has gone off the deep end. They are guessing that analog is not necessary after the OTA shutoff. Not so- it is nearly 50% of the cable sub market. Total Analog.

If you want to watch analog on a big screen, the best idea is to either get an Algolith flea upscaler for $995 or get an S3, because the cable boxes just don't do the job.

[jfh3]

Swanni at TV Predictions says to expect a HD TiVO, probably within the next three months, for $299.

I'm amazed that anyone still bothers to read "news" from Swanni, one of the most clueless and pompous industry wannabe's out there.

Surprised that the hard drive is going to be smaller than 250GB - you would think Tivo would want larger capacity than the standard MSO DVR as a selling point, assuming they ever do a "Tivo to cable" comparasion chart.

[moyekj]

Based on this it seems the cost savings are:
1/2 the storage
No THX
Digital-only tuners
No front panel display
Standard remote (I assume this means the peanut) Smart moves by Tivo. At least for my case:
1/2 the storage - doesn't matter: in fact it should just sell with a tiny drive big enough for the OS and let the consumer pick a hard drive for the video portion.

No THX - not sure really what THX certification really gives you other than bragging rights?

Digital-only tuners - Don't care. With cablecards there are no analog channels in my lineup. From AVS forums it seems like most of the big cable companies are digital simulcasting most or all channels in analog lineup. NOTE: The real cost savings there is not getting rid of NTSC tuners, it's the mpeg encoders.

No front panel display - can't read the darn thing on the S3 anyway.

Standard remote - Never use the OEM remotes, a universal remote is the only way to go.

They should also get rid of the front panel buttons if they haven't already...

Makes me almost regret my 2nd S3 purchase for $400 after rebate... but then again $100 more is not much to fret about.

[Neenahboy]

So what are the odds on them screwing us with no HDMI on the Lite as a model differentiation tactic?

[moyekj]

So what are the odds on them screwing us with no HDMI on the Lite as a model differentiation tactic? Don't think they would do that but honestly I wouldn't care about that either. I hate the DRM-loaded HDMI output anyway and component looks just as good to me on my 47" Westinghouse LCD without the hassles or problems.

[HDTiVo]

Surprised that the hard drive is going to be smaller than 250GB - you would think Tivo would want larger capacity than the standard MSO DVR as a selling point, assuming they ever do a "Tivo to cable" comparasion chart.
I have mixed feelings about this. Personally I would just as soon take it for less $$ with no HD. Anything they ship is going to be useless to me.

On the other hand, from a market standpoint, doing less than 250 GB for the cheap-o-s3-lite makes me uncomfortable. (Edit: I'll dovetail this into my belief that TiVo is about to ship/price the right DVR for last year's market.)

It is absurd that the so-called premium S3 still ships with only a 250GB HD. Perhaps they have so many sitting in the warehouse that they are still selling off.

So what are the odds on them screwing us with no HDMI on the Lite as a model differentiation tactic?
I'll guess less than 0%.

Which is also going to be my guess for lack of analog recording capability.

[jfh3]

I have mixed feelings about this. Personally I would just as soon take it for less $$ with no HD. Anything they ship is going to be useless to me.

On the other hand, from a market standpoint, doing less than 250 GB for the cheap-o-s3-lite makes me uncomfortable. (Edit: I'll dovetail this into my belief that TiVo is about to ship/price the right DVR for last year's market.)

It is absurd that the so-called premium S3 still ships with only a 250GB HD. Perhaps they have so many sitting in the warehouse that they are still selling off.




I agree with you that whatever size drive will be useless to me, as I'll replace it, but we aren't the target market. And, if they make the external hard drive connection officially supported with the software update and offer a Tivo-branded "plug and play" external drive option, much like the Tivo-branded wireless G adapter, then the size of the shipping harddrive won't really matter.

I don't really care about the size of the hard drive in the "premium" S3 either, for the same reason. I'm not going to lose any sleep over "how come the S3lite is pretty much the same as the S3, but $500 less" - all I want to see is Tivo significantly increase the number of S3 boxes of either variety in the marketplace ASAP.

[jfh3]

Another thought - if the S3lite is indeed as rumored and is at $299, why would Tivo continue to market the S2DT?

Does the S3lite become "the" TiVo box?

[jfh3]

(Edit: I'll dovetail this into my belief that TiVo is about to ship/price the right DVR for last year's market.)

What is the right DVR/price for this year's market?

[HDTiVo]

if they make the external hard drive connection officially supported For the general market, I am not very enthusiastic about adding an external hard drive.

Another thought - if the S3lite is indeed as rumored and is at $299, why would Tivo continue to market the S2DT?

Does the S3lite become "the" TiVo box?
No, the S2 market still has some life in it. Why throw away the 30, 50, even 80K Gross Ads per quarter you could still get at current prices?

The questionable one is the S3. I see very little reason for its continued existence. If they lower the price to $399 you have to wonder if they lose too much money on it. Above that, there are not going to be enough takers to make it worthwhile.

What is the right DVR/price for this year's market?
Like I said when the S3 was introduced, its not going to bother me if they grab some low hanging fanboys for $299 for a short while. But they need to come down $50, maybe $70 for XMAS to really hit it big. So I hope they can afford that.

Also, they need to have the guts to believe that their subs will stick around a while and dump the commitment/$16.95 cr@p that is retarding sales.

For the box per se, more of a DMR which can support accessing content from a broad range of internet sources, and support various standard formats and DRM, and particularly protected WMV. And a bigger HD.

[jfh3]

No, the S2 market still has some life in it. The questionable one is the S3. I see very little reason for its continued existence.

I agree, but if there is little functional difference between the S3s - why care? Have a firesale to blow out remaining stock and leave a few for high-end AV "status" dealers to sell.


Like I said when the S3 was introduced, its not going to bother me if they grab some low hanging fanboys for $299 for a short while. But they need to come down $50, maybe $70 for XMAS to really hit it big. So I hope they can afford that.


The magic price point would seem to be $99.


Also, they need to have the guts to believe that their subs will stick around a while and dump the commitment/$16.95 cr@p that is retarding sales.


Agreed, especially for used boxes. And the standard monthly service charge should be less than whatever the average MSO DVR rental is.


For the box per se, more of a DMR which can support accessing content from a broad range of internet sources, and support various standard formats and DRM, and particularly protected WMV.

Can't the S3 do all that with the appropriate software?

[Arcady]

500gb drives cost $47 in bulk. Why would they even continue to deal with 250gb, let alone smaller junk?

[HDTiVo]

The magic price point would seem to be $99.

Why?

Can't the S3 do all that with the appropriate software?
I hope so. Where is the software? Its time to download some Hi Def movies like with the Xbox.

[HDTiVo]

500gb drives cost $47 in bulk. Why would they even continue to deal with 250gb, let alone smaller junk?
TiVo doesn't know how to excite people about buying their product?

[jfh3]

Why?

$49 or $99 are considered "impulse buy" price points in the CE world. (To a lesser extent, $149 and $199). I say $99 just because I don't see any practical way to even consider $49.

$299 is still a big ticket item, especially if people incorrectly believe "that cable DVRs are free".

[HDTiVo]

$49 or $99 are considered "impulse buy" price points in the CE world. (To a lesser extent, $149 and $199). I say $99 just because I don't see any practical way to even consider $49.

$299 is still a big ticket item, especially if people incorrectly believe "that cable DVRs are free".
Oh, I see. Of course there is no practical way to price the S3-Lite at $99 in the current context.

I say "finance" it for zero down and an extra $X,Y,Z per month for 1,2,3 years over (more reasonable) service pricing. Of course, you don't present it that way. Its $16.95/mo for 3 years or $18.95/mo for 2 years, or whatever.

Or its $299 and $9.95/mo, or $599 w/ Lifetime, or whatever. Once you go above zero down, forget variability of monthly rates; just give people the choice of an all-in price, or a box price and a low monthly service fee which they can understand the value of.

Note: These numbers are intended to be illustrative of the concepts, not precise prices.

[Arcady]

How about TV my way, instead of the MPAA's way?

[HDTiVo]

How about TV my way, instead of the MPAA's way?
You mean TiVo has been too submissive to those kinds of interests over the years to its detriment with the consumer?

[Arcady]

What I mean is that I shouldn't have to re-encode video through a hacked firewire interface that ignores macrovision in order to get an Amazon unbox video onto a DVD. I paid for the video; I should be able to do what I want with it for my own personal use.

[jfh3]

Or its $299 and $9.95/mo, or $599 w/ Lifetime, or whatever. Once you go above zero down, forget variablity of monthly rates; just give people the choice of an all-in price, or a box price and a low monthly service fee which they can understand the value of.

Yeah, except the problem with that is that people say "why am I paying $x for guide data" and don't understand the concept of the "TiVo service".

I'm afraid if you go back to the "bundle service with the box model", that you allow the MSOs to keep the upper hand by marketing "free DVRs".

[jtlytle]

I'm hoping that S4 will have FOUR TUNERS !! Because there are over hundreds of channels and you have to pick 2 ??

[Redux]

Like I said when the S3 was introduced, its not going to bother me if they grab some low hanging fanboys for $299 for a short while. But they need to come down $50, maybe $70 for XMAS to really hit it big. So I hope they can afford that.

Also, they need to have the guts to believe that their subs will stick around a while and dump the commitment/$16.95 cr@p that is retarding sales.

For the box per se, more of a DMR which can support accessing content from a broad range of internet sources, and support various standard formats and DRM, and particularly protected WMV. And a bigger HD.I want a pony.

[DCIFRTHS]

Originally Posted by ncbagwell
Mike - hearing anything on MRV/TTG/TTCB for the Series 3?

So far, bad news...



:(

Steve: Bad news? I'm not happy to hear that. What are you basing your comment on?

[DCIFRTHS]

... Both the S3 and Lite will have TTG and MRV PRIOR TO THE END OF 2007. ...

Well. That's good news... Is this a prediction or do you have some solid evidence that you can point to?

[jrm01]

[QUOTE=Justin Thyme]I agree- As many of us here know- a very large percentage of channels in the "Digital" tier are actually delivered in Analog. About 85% of the channels I record are analog.

So I think someone's imagination has gone off the deep end. They are guessing that analog is not necessary after the OTA shutoff. Not so- it is nearly 50% of the cable sub market. Total Analog.
I have absolutely no facts or figures on this, but I would guess that with the advent of SDV, digital simulcast, and local station HDTV availability the percentage of viewing of analog for those with HDTV would be very small. My guess would be less than 20%, and shrinking.

[bkdtv]

I have absolutely no facts or figures on this, but I would guess that with the advent of SDV, digital simulcast, and local station HDTV availability the percentage of viewing of analog for those with HDTV would be very small. My guess would be less than 20%, and shrinking.By end 2007, ~100% of Comcast systems are supposed to have digital simulcast and the other majors (Time Warner, Cox, etc) aren't far behind.

I would bet at least half those that receive analog channels now only do so due to a configuration error at the headend, which prevents the digital simulcast from taking precedence over the analog feeds on the Tivo Series3. As for what will happen with these misconfigured systems when the analog channels are removed, I do not know.

The lack of an analog tuner should only be a problem for those with smaller, independent cable providers, but that represents a small slice of the market. They can always buy the original Series3.

[jrm01]

Well. That's good news... Is this a prediction or do you have some solid evidence that you can point to?
Info provided to major ce retailer by Tivo.

Of course it didn't mention what restrictions may be included, specifically whether cable-provided HDTV would be included.

[HDTiVo]

Yeah, except the problem with that is that people say "why am I paying $x for guide data" and don't understand the concept of the "TiVo service".

I'm afraid if you go back to the "bundle service with the box model", that you allow the MSOs to keep the upper hand by marketing "free DVRs".
Isn't the first what is happening now?

Isn't the "bundle service with the box model" going on now?

[sandenurse]

I want to know...why the S3s don't do satelites? Why is Tivo denying the consumers an option to swich sources.

[SullyND]

I want to know...why the S3s don't do satelites? Why is Tivo denying the consumers an option to swich sources.

Would you pay more than 2x the cost of an S3 for one that could do Satellite? The technology to record HD from an external STB is currently not a consumer level technology and is very expensive. The real question is why are satellite companies denying consumers the option of TiVo?

[sandenurse]

Would you pay more than 2x the cost of an S3 for one that could do Satellite? The technology to record HD from an external STB is currently not a consumer level technology and is very expensive. The real question is why are satellite companies denying consumers the option of TiVo?

I don't understand why once we have the HD DATA ( either from the CC or Sat box, that DIGITAL DATA can not be recorded to the hard drive.

Isn't Digital Data, digital data. Why would it cost 2x the price to add that feature? :confused:

[scustin]

I have no inside news but expect announcements in the next month or so.

As of March the FCC no longer allows TV equipment to be manufactured with only analog tuners. Anything already in the warehouse can continue to be sold, but stores are required to post signs warning consumers that all broadcast TV is scheduled to be digital in Feb 09.

The fall TV retailing season pretty much follows football. New models hit stores in late August/early September and marketing ramps up for the peak around Christmas followed by spring model launches and a clearance sale for Super Bowl.

Manufacturers and retailers will probably have a big push this fal to convince consumers that they need to replace existing analog-only TVs, VCR, etc, rather than buy a converter and wait for the old stuff to die.

Sony, Panasonic, etc, have announced their fall large-screen TV models over the past few weeks but I've noticed a dearth of news about new smaller-size TVs or recorders (VCR/DVR/DVD). They probably realize that sales of analog-only models will dry up once they announce new digital units at the same price points.

So TiVo and the rest have chosen to stay mum, offer big discounts and hope to get rid of as many of the discontinued models as possible over the summer.

This quiet period will also allow TiVo to take advantage of a new generation of hard drives to reduce component costs without cutting capacity. Anything less than 250gb will have limited functionality in the digital era, especially on multi-tuner models.

Just wait a few more weeks and all should be revealed.

[bicker]

What's the benefit if the HDD is the same size as Motorola 6412 Comcast DVR, when by then the Moto box will run Tivo software also?Some of the biggest issues with the Motorola DVRs are likely to be in firmware, and therefore won't be affected by the deployment of TiVo software on them.

90% of the benefit of S3 over the Moto box is the bigger HDD and stable interface.I agree with you, but a lot -- a lot -- of people here feel that the Motorola DVRs are little better than doorstops. While we disagree with them, we still have to respect their personal preferences in this regard as justification for the market for the S3-lite @ $299, even if configured as per this latest report.

Kind of hard to justify $300 price over a free Comcast DVR...True, also there is no monthly price advantage either:

With the TiVo: $8.95 for TiVo (with a three-year commitment)
plus $5.50 for Comcast for two CableCards*;

With the Comcast DVR:$13.72 for Comcast (with no commitment)
-- though that fee from Comcast is going to be going up soon

* For those who want to figure it with one CableCard included, you need to recompute the Comcast DVR numbers to match:

With the TiVo: $8.95 for TiVo (with a three-year commitment)
plus $2.75 for Comcast for one additional CableCards;

With the Comcast DVR:$9.95 for Comcast (with no commitment)
-- though that fee from Comcast is going to be going up soon

but the TTG/MRV news if true is very welcome indeed (and that WOULD make a big difference to getting a real Tivo Lite box vs Comcast box.)I doubt that this is the intended market for the box, but surely if MRV works with HD recordings, I think that would represent a pretty significant motivation for current S3 owners to get an S3 Lite.

[SullyND]

I don't understand why once we have the HD DATA ( either from the CC or Sat box, that DIGITAL DATA can not be recorded to the hard drive.

Isn't Digital Data, digital data. Why would it cost 2x the price to add that feature? :confused:

Digital Data is digital data. Digital data as it enters the home is compressed, as it goes to the TV (via HDMI, etc) is not compressed. Recording non-compressed HD would require exceedingly large hard drives, compressing the video in real time would require technology which is exceedingly expensive.

DirecTV and DISH do not allow TiVo to record the compressed signal.

[SullyND]

I have no inside news but expect announcements in the next month or so.

As of March the FCC no longer allows TV equipment to be manufactured with only analog tuners. Anything already in the warehouse can continue to be sold, but stores are required to post signs warning consumers that all broadcast TV is scheduled to be digital in Feb 09.

So TiVo and the rest have chosen to stay mum, offer big discounts and hope to get rid of as many of the discontinued models as possible over the summer.

TiVo hasn't sold a DVR which is affected by the FCC ruling re:analog tuners for some time.

[bicker]

So I won't be able to tune any of the analog cable channels?Just one data-point: We've never used the analog tuner in our S3. YMMV, of course, but in the interest of substantiating a price difference between S3 and S3 Lite, removing the analog tuners is not a bad approach IMHO.

[sbiller]

I'm sorry, but... WTF? No analog tuner? That doesn't make any sense. It can't be right.

I believe my Cable Cards receive all of the channels offered by my cable service provider, Brighthouse networks. I'm guessing the lack of an analog tuner would be a don't care since I'll receive all of the programming via CC.

[bicker]

NOTE: The real cost savings there is not getting rid of NTSC tuners, it's the mpeg encoders.Thanks for that clarification.

[bicker]

I want to know...why the S3s don't do satelites? Why is Tivo denying the consumers an option to swich sources.You've got it backwards: The satellite services have closed their doors to TiVo.

[hybucket]

I'm amazed that anyone still bothers to read "news" from Swanni, one of the most clueless and pompous industry wannabe's out there.

Say what you will, but unlike many other "industry wannabes," he responds to reader's emails, and...well, his site was the first I'd heard of the new TiVO Lite. So I guess he's accomplishing what he wants, and that's inform.

[TheNumberSix]

My cable company has 100% digital simulcast in my market, so I'd be very interested in this box.

[mike_camden]

How do we know if our analog channels are being digital simulcast? I asked a Comcast CSR a few months ago, but itwas obvious that she had no idea what I was talking about.

[moyekj]

How do we know if our analog channels are being digital simulcast? I asked a Comcast CSR a few months ago, but itwas obvious that she had no idea what I was talking about. If you currently have a cable company set top box (or know someone who has one) you can check the box diagnostics while tuned to channels in the analog lineup to see if they are digital or not. For example, if diagnostics report modulation scheme as QAM then you know they are digital. This is how I was originally building up my spreadsheet for my local headend (in my sig). For the Motorola DCTxxx or DCHxxx series you can find details here of getting to diagnostics:
http://replayguide.sourceforge.net/dct6412/DCT6412_Passport.html#Tips_and_Tricks

Obviously with the S3 it's a lot easier to tell from the diagnostics menu if you are tuned to digital or analog stations (among other methods).

[HDTiVo]

Say what you will, but unlike many other "industry wannabes," he responds to reader's emails, and...well, his site was the first I'd heard of the new TiVO Lite. So I guess he's accomplishing what he wants, and that's inform.
And then folks come here and we repair the damage. :D

[HDTiVo]

If this thing doesn't record/encode analog cable it is going to be a flop. It might not even sell as many as the S3, and that would be disasterous.

I can't imagine there is a snowball's chance in hell it is going to turn out that way.

So now I've set myself up for looking stupid. :eek:

[sbiller]

If this thing doesn't record/encode analog cable it is going to be a flop. It might not even sell as many as the S3, and that would be disasterous.

I can't imagine there is a snowball's chance in hell it is going to turn out that way.

So now I've set myself up for looking stupid. :eek:

What is your reasoning behind this? Most cable cos are moving to a 100% digital delivery model so analog receivers with internal MPEG encoding just doesn't make a lot of sense from a ROI perspective.

VR, Sam

[HDTiVo]

What is your reasoning behind this? Most cable cos are moving to a 100% digital delivery model so analog receivers with internal MPEG encoding just doesn't make a lot of sense from a ROI perspective.

VR, Sam
First, there is a lot of debate about that. The FCC Commissioner might want one thing. The rest of the Commission another. Congress may want a third. No one knows what will happen.

Second, it isn't done now, however TiVo is selling the box now. Maybe they could sell that in one or two years, at which point this box is obsolete anyway from a competitve standpoint; we're already onto the S3-Lite2.

Third, the family of parts TiVo uses to build these machines has all the functionality built in. I can't see more than a trivial amount of cost savings.

To offer a box which will not fully satisfy a large portion of the cable market for virtually no cost advantage would be crazy.

[Justin Thyme]

How do we know if our analog channels are being digital simulcast? I asked a Comcast CSR a few months ago, but itwas obvious that she had no idea what I was talking about.
Here is another a little bit more clear guide (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5076529&&#post5076529) to determining whether a station is true digital or just a remapped analog.

For those systems using Scientific atlanta equipment (Time Warner for example), here is the guide for those folks. (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5079082&&#post5079082)

Cablecard subscribers of analog remain at near 50%, and it will be a while before cable cajoles them all into taking an stb for all of the TV sets in their home which will otherwise go dark.

Personally, I am skeptical about this rumor about Tivo lite being all digital, although it is concievable Tivo could chop out those chips from the low end and put analog hookups on a premium S3 that supported satellite as well as cable. Folks wanting analog support without a cable STB could use the S2 DT. So it would give a spread of product offerings.

I think the most important new Tivo coming is one No One is talking about and everyone has access to (that is, everyone except Comcast Tivo lite). It's Tivo's other half- you use it whenever you use Swivel search, and it's one honking piece of iron that has virtually limitless application possibilities.

[gatorbait]

Just to be sure I am understanding....

Any channel that I can get with my current S3 through the cable cards, I will be able to pull with this new receiver?

Essentially in my case would only lose OTA HD but could use comcast for local HD?

[Justin Thyme]

No. Because your cablecard could be mapping an analog channel. As far as you know it is a digital channel, because your lineup says it is in the digital tier, and you are tuning a different number than the analog customers tune to.

If you are curious about a channel, go to it on the S3 and hit record. If it asks you what quality to record at, its an analog channel.

[classicsat]

Another thought - if the S3lite is indeed as rumored and is at $299, why would Tivo continue to market the S2DT?

Does the S3lite become "the" TiVo box?
Only if it supports external STBs.

Now, they they could make a tunerless Series 2 with only one A/V input for cable, satellite, or IPTV box, but I don't think they'd do that.

[classicsat]

What I mean is that I shouldn't have to re-encode video through a hacked firewire interface that ignores macrovision in order to get an Amazon unbox video onto a DVD. I paid for the video; I should be able to do what I want with it for my own personal use.
No, you paid that price for the right to use the video in a limited fashion for personal use. If you want fewer restrictions, you would pay more from the provider of the video for that right, or purchase from another source or medium that has fewer restrictions. And claiming "personal use" changes nothing. And if you want a DVD, you go buy the DVD.

[classicsat]

I don't understand why once we have the HD DATA ( either from the CC or Sat box, that DIGITAL DATA can not be recorded to the hard drive.

Isn't Digital Data, digital data. Why would it cost 2x the price to add that feature? :confused:

Satellite receivers don't put put MPEG2 though. The output either analog or HDMI, both of which are uncompressed straight video.

The only cost effective video to encode is SD video, which the Series 2 does just fine.

[classicsat]

I want to know...why the S3s don't do satelites? Why is Tivo denying the consumers an option to swich sources.

Because the Series 2 does satellite.

The Series 3 is made to directly tune digital/ analog OTA and/or cable.

[bkdtv]

I don't understand why once we have the HD DATA ( either from the CC or Sat box, that DIGITAL DATA can not be recorded to the hard drive.

Isn't Digital Data, digital data. Why would it cost 2x the price to add that feature? :confused:Satellite data may be digital, but it is also encrypted. Satellite providers like Dish Network (and now DirecTV) have refused to provide Tivo access to their encryption systems, hence Tivo has no way to decrypt and display that digital data.

The Tivo Series2 is able to record analog SD output from a Dish or DirecTV STB. However, recording high-definition analog output from a Dish or DirecTV STB is very expensive (and involves quality loss), as noted by other posters.

[peteypete]

I have all the info you guys need, I'm just not allowed to actually tell you any of it. :cool:

Now Mike, that's not nice!! Speak through your dog or something!

[jfh3]

This quiet period will also allow TiVo to take advantage of a new generation of hard drives to reduce component costs without cutting capacity. Anything less than 250gb will have limited functionality in the digital era, especially on multi-tuner models.

Which is why the idea of anything less than 250GB in the S3lite doesn't make any sense, unless there is a significant cost savings by going with a smaller drive.

[Arcady]

No, you paid that price for the right to use the video in a limited fashion for personal use. If you want fewer restrictions, you would pay more from the provider of the video for that right, or purchase from another source or medium that has fewer restrictions. And claiming "personal use" changes nothing. And if you want a DVD, you go buy the DVD.

Tell me where to buy video without all these silly restrictions, and I will. And the movie I bought from Amazon is only available from two places: Amazon and iTunes. The DVD doesn't come out for months.

Apple has started on the right path by offering music without all this DRM nonsense. Hopefully it is the first step in unencumbering consumer electronics and opening things up so people can use content they purchase however they want. TiVo seems to be going in the other direction.

[bicker]

So now I've set myself up for looking stupid. :eek:Funny -- I was thinking the same thing! :D

[jrm01]

Just to be sure I am understanding....

Any channel that I can get with my current S3 through the cable cards, I will be able to pull with this new receiver?

Essentially in my case would only lose OTA HD but could use comcast for local HD?
You would not lose OTA HD, that would be included.

If the Tivo does not have an analog tuner you would lose the analog channels, even if using the CC.

[Adam1115]

What is your reasoning behind this? Most cable cos are moving to a 100% digital delivery model so analog receivers with internal MPEG encoding just doesn't make a lot of sense from a ROI perspective.

VR, Sam

Some are moving to 100% digital delivery, some are moving certain channels. But MOST cable companies still offer SIGNIFICANT content on analag. Also, MOST cable companies charge a LOT more for digital cable, cable cards, etc.

No way am I going to pay an extra $50/mo just to get the 'digital tier' to use my TiVo... Analog for the handful of cable channels I watch on occasion is fine. OTA-HD is all I need.

[Arcady]

Many of the channels in my "digital" tier (over 70 channels in fact) are actually analog. This is on Time Warner Cable in Dallas, not some rinky-dink cable company.

[sbiller]

Some are moving to 100% digital delivery, some are moving certain channels. But MOST cable companies still offer SIGNIFICANT content on analag. Also, MOST cable companies charge a LOT more for digital cable, cable cards, etc.

No way am I going to pay an extra $50/mo just to get the 'digital tier' to use my TiVo... Analog for the handful of cable channels I watch on occasion is fine. OTA-HD is all I need.

My mistake, I assumed that if I was decoding via CC than it had to be in an MPEG-2 transport stream. You are correct that occasionally with my cable provider I have to select the video quality which means that the TiVo analog tuner is tuning and encoding the stream.

[sbiller]

My mistake, I assumed that if I was decoding via CC than it had to be in an MPEG-2 transport stream. You are correct that occasionally with my cable provider I have to select the video quality which means that the TiVo analog tuner is tuning and encoding the stream.

Could they eliminate the OTA High Def tuner and still maintain the ability to tune and encode cable provided SD analog channels?

[HDTiVo]

This is on Time Warner Cable in Dallas, not some rinky-dink cable company.
My cable company was recently renamed: Non-Rinky-Dink Spite the CableCARD User with Analog When Everyone Else Gets Digital Cable

[mike_camden]

If you currently have a cable company set top box (or know someone who has one) you can check the box diagnostics while tuned to channels in the analog lineup to see if they are digital or not. For example, if diagnostics report modulation scheme as QAM then you know they are digital. This is how I was originally building up my spreadsheet for my local headend (in my sig). For the Motorola DCTxxx or DCHxxx series you can find details here of getting to diagnostics:
http://replayguide.sourceforge.net/dct6412/DCT6412_Passport.html#Tips_and_Tricks

Obviously with the S3 it's a lot easier to tell from the diagnostics menu if you are tuned to digital or analog stations (among other methods).

Thanks for the tip. I'm using a Motorola DCT-6412; if it's showing QAM 256 for the channel in the inband status, that means the channel is digital? If that's correct. then I guess CCast must be doing all digital simulcast here.

[bkdtv]

Thanks for the tip. I'm using a Motorola DCT-6412; if it's showing QAM 256 for the channel in the inband status, that means the channel is digital? If that's correct. then I guess CCast must be doing all digital simulcast here.For the most part, if you have Comcast, you have digital simulcast.

Some are moving to 100% digital delivery, some are moving certain channels. But MOST cable companies still offer SIGNIFICANT content on analag. Also, MOST cable companies charge a LOT more for digital cable, cable cards, etc.Just because cable companies offer analog does not mean they don't also offer those channels in digital. In almost every market, save for Chicago, Comcast offers "extended basic" cable service in analog. However, they also offer that same service in digital for the same price (or $1 more, depending on market). If you use an analog tuner, you get the analog versions; if use a STB, you get the digital versions.

All cable companies are moving to digital because that is the only way they can compete with satellite.

[moyekj]

Thanks for the tip. I'm using a Motorola DCT-6412; if it's showing QAM 256 for the channel in the inband status, that means the channel is digital? If that's correct. then I guess CCast must be doing all digital simulcast here. Yes, if it says QAM 256 (or QAM anything) then it's digital. Just note that there are 2 pages of info - one for each tuner. If the information doesn't include the channel number you can change the channel on one tuner and go back to same diagnostics page and see which frequency changed to determine which tuner corresponds to which page.

[GoHokies!]

Could they eliminate the OTA High Def tuner and still maintain the ability to tune and encode cable provided SD analog channels?
OTA HD = Digital, so yes.

But it would be stupid.

[bkdtv]

Many of the channels in my "digital" tier (over 70 channels in fact) are actually analog. This is on Time Warner Cable in Dallas, not some rinky-dink cable company.Time Warner already does digital simulcast in almost every part of the Dallas / FW area. If you don't get digital simulcast on your Series3, that is probably a headend configuration problem.

TWC has announced plans to have digital simulcast up in ~100% of its markets (with some SDV in about 75%) by January 2008. That SDV does pose a problem for the Series3, but Verizon FiOS should be available in much of N. Texas by end 2007.

[wmcbrine]

So what are the odds on them screwing us with no HDMI on the Lite as a model differentiation tactic?Zero. The content cartels want everything to be HDMI. They'd like to see component phased out.

[Adam1115]

For the most part, if you have Comcast, you have digital simulcast.

Just because cable companies offer analog does not mean they don't also offer those channels in digital. In almost every market, save for Chicago, Comcast offers "extended basic" cable service in analog. However, they also offer that same service in digital for the same price (or $1 more, depending on market). If you use an analog tuner, you get the analog versions; if use a STB, you get the digital versions.

All cable companies are moving to digital because that is the only way they can compete with satellite.

You're (sort of) right that it appears they have dropped the price of digital. Used to be much more expensive than analog. Looks like here, digital cable is $49.99 a month, "Standard Cable" is $48.99. BUT, you can't get digital cable for $49.99. You need either a STB, that they will happily RENT to you for an ADDITIONAL fee ($9.95/mo) or a CableCARD, which costs a few bucks a month plus an installation fee.

So really to be fair, digital cable is $3-$10.95 a month more than analog PER OUTLET (so two TV's? Three?).

But then there's the fact that I have "Basic Cable", which means I get about 25-30 channels, but they won't sell me a cablecard or STB unless I up it to digital cable, which is $35/mo more! They won't even LET me get HBO unless I pay the additional $35/mo. I get all the channels I need, why would I pay so much to see pixilation instead of static on a handful of channels I hardly watch?

[Arcady]

Time Warner already does digital simulcast in almost every part of the Dallas / FW area.

Not here. Every channel below 100 is analog, and any channel with the same content in the "digital tier" (above 100) is also analog, even on their STB and DVR boxes. I don't even have to look at info to see which are analog; the static in the picture is easy enough to see. This means that almost all of the most-watched cable channels (History, Sci Fi, USA, etc.) are analog, and stupid junk like shopping channels and spanish stuff are digital.

[jmpage2]

It seems to me that an awful big assumption is being made that this new unit will not have an analog tuner.

[Justin Thyme]

It seems to me that an awful big assumption is being made that this new unit will not have an analog tuner.
:up: +1

[aaronwt]

I thought someone earlier mentioned the savings would come from not having an MPEG encoder, which is needed for analog recording. So if they don't have an MPEG encoder there would be no point in having an analog tuner.

[sbiller]

I thought someone earlier mentioned the savings would come from not having an MPEG encoder, which is needed for analog recording. So if they don't have an MPEG encoder there would be no point in having an analog tuner.

I think the general consensus is that the unit would most likely need an analog tuner w/ associated MPEG encoder to support the current analog channels being delivered by many service providers.

I haven't seen an estimate as to the cost of analog tuning and MPEG encoding. It might be interesting to see a price breakdown of the piece parts that make up an S3.

[ZeoTiVo]

It seems to me that an awful big assumption is being made that this new unit will not have an analog tuner.
I think better cost savings would come from having a standard box and motherboard design that would support either S2 or S3 feature set depending on the chipset put on the motherboard. use the same analog encoder/decoder and tuner setup for both and you buy in bulk. Then add on the digital tuner and OTA, inputs/outputs associated with that. Viola a low cost S3 that comes down the same factory line as a S2 DT, just specced out differently.

Getting it on the same factory line is what brings the cost way down versus the current S3 and its high end and very different factory line requirements.

[classicsat]

Could they eliminate the OTA High Def tuner and still maintain the ability to tune and encode cable provided SD analog channels?

Technically yes, but then they'd have an S2 DT, since the digital OTA tuner is the same chunk of silicon used to tune digital cable, which means you lose that if you eliminate digital OTA to save costs.

[Adam1115]

Wouldn't a lot of savings be streamlining the manufacturing from a process standpoint? Using more 'common' components to replace components that are expensive / hard to find? Maybe reworking the mainboard to do the same thing a little bit differently to cut manufacturing costs? A cheaper remote and chassis? Kind of like the difference between a 240 and 540 series 2?

I mean, I seriously doubt their going to start from the top and redesign the whole thing so they can lop off some useful features... The software costs to do this would make it easy for this to not make sense.

[MichaelK]

A major CE retailer was just notified that the new Tivo-lite will be in the store the week of August 5-12. It is currently named "Fusion", but will likely just be called Tivo HD. The specs on it are:

price: $299
source: Digital cable, digital antenna
NO THX certification
Dual tuner
Storage: 20 hrs HD, 180 hrs. SD
No front panel display
Standard remote

Support for SP, WL, KidZone, Online scheduling, Digital music player, Digital photo viewer, Home Movie sharing, Amazon Unbox, Univ Swivel Search

Both the S3 and Lite will have TTG and MRV PRIOR TO THE END OF 2007.


Based on this it seems the cost savings are:

1/2 the storage
No THX
Digital-only tuners
No front panel display
Standard remote (I assume this means the peanut)

I beleive cablecard approval means it MUST support analog cable.

[MichaelK]

So what are the odds on them screwing us with no HDMI on the Lite as a model differentiation tactic?

zero

cable HD could be worthless at sme point without HDMI.

(less sure of this but cablecard approval may also require either hdmi or firewire...)

[MichaelK]

I beleive cablecard approval means it MUST support analog cable.

not an expert but the cablecard testing procedure can be found here:
http://www.cablelabs.com/udcp/downloads/UNI-DIR-ATP-I05-040629.pdf

on page 158 it says (CORE Interoperability Tests) :

"6. Verify the ability of CableCARD, host combination to tune clear analog channels.
Reference CA system for channel map information and tune to an analog service, verify
audio and video on UDRD."

sure sounds like they expect cablecard devices to tune analog channels.

(again not an expert so feel free to explain how I'm wrong)

[MickeS]

sure sounds like they expect cablecard devices to tune analog channels.

Yes.

[MichaelK]

So since it has to do analog cable the only thing they MIGHT have left out is OTA NTSC tuning. Since I don’t think there are yet ATSC tuner chips that don’t include the NTSC tuner, I suspect it will have that too.

They might leave it out as a differentiator but I don’t know why they would if they already have the code for the S3.

[ZeoTiVo]

sure sounds like they expect cablecard devices to tune analog channels.

(again not an expert so feel free to explain how I'm wrong)

a note just for clarity - the cable card actually just takes the digital stream off the cable and decrypts it, if needed. then a digital tuner would find the correct part of the digital stream to tune in and provide to the DVR for processing.
I do not think the analog comes through the cable card but even if it does there is an analog tuner that will find the correct frequency and tune that in to provide to the DVR for processing.

so cable cards on their own do not gain access to analog or for that matter digital channels. it is a tuner inside the device that will get the specific channel.

but the statement is correct - if you are cable card certified, the device needs to have an analog tuner

[Gene S]

My question is, will this "Lite" version include the hardware to handle switched video SDV? If not, I'll be waiting till S4.

[sbiller]

My question is, will this "Lite" version include the hardware to handle switched video SDV? If not, I'll be waiting till S4.

Recommend that you review this thread
SDV Sightings (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=357703&highlight=SDV)

I think they are working on methods to be compatible with SDV but its a crapshoot when and if it will be supported.

[MickeS]

My question is, will this "Lite" version include the hardware to handle switched video SDV? If not, I'll be waiting till S4.
It would be pretty pathetic if it didn't at least have some sort of upgrade-path in place.

But this IS TiVo (the company) we're talking about so I don't rule anything out. ;)

[SullyND]

But this IS [a cablelabs issue] we're talking about so [there isn't a standard in place that TiVo could adopt if they wanted to]

FYP.

[bicker]

Wouldn't a lot of savings be streamlining the manufacturing from a process standpoint?Savings isn't the whole issue, though. They not only need to cut costs, but they also need to provide an appropriate value/price differentiation between the current S3 and S3 Lite.

[classicsat]

So since it has to do analog cable the only thing they MIGHT have left out is OTA NTSC tuning. Since I don’t think there are yet ATSC tuner chips that don’t include the NTSC tuner, I suspect it will have that too.

They might leave it out as a differentiator but I don’t know why they would if they already have the code for the S3.

OTA NTSC tuning is just software (the hardware being there for analog cable). There is no cost savings eliminating that. They have to "cut" either hardware or features that cost licensing fees.

[hybucket]

Aside from speculation, has there been any legit reports of what the new TiVO Lite will be like or when it will be available?

[Globular]

Maybe the components are roughly the same as the Series 3; they're just cheaper now?

Minus the LCD, glo remote , and EAF (Early Adopter Fee).

-Matt

[bkdtv]

Maybe the components are roughly the same as the Series 3; they're just cheaper now?

Minus the LCD, glo remote , and EAF (Early Adopter Fee).

-Matt
Tivo Series3 Specifications (TCD648250B) Broadcom BCM7038 DVR CPU with MPEG-2 decoder
Broadcom BCM7411 MPEG-4 decoder
128Mb DDR SDRAM (plus SDRAM for BCM7042s)
250Gb SATA HD
2x Broadcom BCM7042 MPEG-2 encoders
2x Samsung S5H1409-based tuners (analog/QAM/8VSB)
relatively large, 4-layer PCB (?) with PCI slots
THX certification
Front panel OLED display
Glossy, backlit learning remote
Made in Mexico
$799 MSRP

Official TivoHD Specifications (TCD652160) Broadcom BCM7401 DVR CPU w/ integrated MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 decoders
256MB DDR400 SDRAM (4x NANYA NT5DS32M16BS-5U)
160GB Western Digital WD1600AVBS SATA hard drive
2x ATI Theater 314 QAM/VSB demodulators (for tuners)
2x Philips/NXT SAA7138CHL ADCs
1x VIXS XCode 2115 IC w/ dedicated 32MB DDR400 SDRAM (2x NANYA NT5DS8M16FS-5T) CableCard interface
MP@ML encoders
Silicon Image SiI5723 Dual SATA controller
Xilinx Spartan-3 XC3S200 FPGA
10/100Mbps Ethernet
Standard Tivo remote
$299 MSRP

TivoHD Advantages MSRP is $500 less ($299 vs $799) thanks to newer, more integrated components
TivoHD has ~7% faster CPU (450 MIPS vs 420 MIPS)
TivoHD has twice the usable system memory (256MB vs 128MB)
Supports MCARDs out of the box.
Consumes less power.

TivoHD Disadvantages TTG and MRV throughput is less than Tivo Series3 (as of 9.2 software).
The "plug and play" eSATA drive expansion only works with "Tivo Verified" eSATA drives, while the Tivo Series3 works with any eSATA drive.
Smaller hard drive (160GB vs 250GB).
No THX certification.
No piano black enclosure with OLED display.
No slick, learning remote (sold separately for $50).
No bundled HDMI cable.
Drivers for new components potentially less mature / optimized.
Ships with older 8.1.x branch of Tivo software, which doesn't have all the performance improvements of the 8.3.x branch on the Tivo Series3.
Potentially slower disk I/O, which may hurt responsiveness.
The Broadcom BCM7401 in the TivoHD has a single 1.5Gbps SATA channel that is "split" for the internal SATA and eSATA connections using the Silicon Image SiI5723. In contrast, the BCM7038 in the Series3 had a dual-channel SATA controller, so no "splitting" was required. This may negatively impact disk I/O when both internal and eSATA drives are used, and Tivo responsiveness is highly dependent on disk I/O. The SiI5723 does support several RAID modes that could potentially improve random I/O.
Google "TCD652160" and you might get a few hits, although you'll have to look at the cached results since Tivo has had most of the offending pages removed. Even Amazon has pictures of the TCD652160 on their site...

To clarify, I am not under NDA with Tivo.

[wmcbrine]

To clarify, I am under under NDA with Tivo.You might want to re-clarify that...

[bkdtv]

You might want to re-clarify that...Bad typo.

[Globular]

Google "TCD652160" and you might get a few hits, although you'll have to look at the cached results since Tivo has had most of the offending pages removed. Even Amazon has pictures of the TCD652160 on their site...


Wow. This thing must be close if it's showing up on shopping sites already! Bring it on TiVo. This is exactly what I was waiting for!

[MickeS]

"Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd., a leader in advanced semiconductor technology, today announced an improved digital TV receiver chip, the S5H1411, that boasts a 30 percent higher reception success rate than the company’s previous generation digital TV receiver chip released in 2005, the S5H1409."

If the above components list is true, I wonder if they'll be putting this new chip in the S3 too?

[Adam1115]

Not bad looking...

http://www.filenanny.com/files/44f7b9c9f14e0/31GajnR8QbL.jpg


Features:

* Controls cable TV with record, pause, rewind and fast-forward in HD
* Records two HD channels at once, while watching another recorded show
* Records up to 20 hours of high definition programming (or 180 hours of standard definition)
* Video output modes include: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i
* Sources supported: Digital cable, Analog cable, Digital antenna (ATSC), Analog antenna and broadband content

[MickeS]

Google "TCD652160" and you might get a few hits, although you'll have to look at the cached results since Tivo has had most of the offending pages removed. Even Amazon has pictures of the TCD652160 on their site...

"Features:

* Controls cable TV with record, pause, rewind and fast-forward in HD
* Records two HD channels at once, while watching another recorded show
* Records up to 20 hours of high definition programming (or 180 hours of standard definition)
* Video output modes include: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i
* Sources supported: Digital cable, Analog cable, Digital antenna (ATSC), Analog antenna and broadband content"


And the pictures are definitely of the same unit that was shown earlier in the thread. So I guess this thing will be out pretty soon then... nice... might have to get one. :)

I always found it puzzling that they spent time and money on the front display on the Series 3. I would assume most "high end" setups are similar to mine, in that the electronics are stashed away somewhere out of sight anyway.

[sbiller]

Found it via cached Yahoo search at Abe's of Maine...for $304.99.

Tivo TCD652160 TiVo HD High Definition Digital Video Recorder For Cable Use...

Also, from a cached google site found a nice image and these specs:

Features for TiVo TCD652160 HD Digital Video Recorder:

* Controls cable TV with record, pause, rewind and fast-forward in HD
* Records two HD channels at once, while watching another recorded show
* Records up to 20 hours of high definition programming (or 180 hours of standard definition)
* Video output modes include: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i
* Sources supported: Digital cable, Analog cable, Digital antenna (ATSC), Analog antenna and broadband content

TIVO TCD653080 TIVO(R) HIGH-DEFINITION COMBINES THE INTELLIGENCE OF THE TIVO(R) SERVICE WITH THE PURITY OF HIGH-DEFINITION A/V; UNIVERSAL CABLE BOX DESIGNED TO WORK WITH ANY CABLE PROVIDER; OFFERS NETWORK CONNECTIVITY OTHER ELECTRONICS

[dvr4me]

I just bought a series 2 that will be delivered in 2 days (converting from Directv to cable and don't want to use the DVR from the cable company).

I might just have to take advantage of the 30 day money back guarantee offer and wait for the S3 Lite to arrive.

[hybucket]

Found it via cached Yahoo search at Abe's of Maine...for $304.99.

Tivo TCD652160 TiVo HD High Definition Digital Video Recorder For Cable Use...

Also, from a cached google site found a nice image and these specs:

Features for TiVo TCD652160 HD Digital Video Recorder:

* Controls cable TV with record, pause, rewind and fast-forward in HD
* Records two HD channels at once, while watching another recorded show
* Records up to 20 hours of high definition programming (or 180 hours of standard definition)
* Video output modes include: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i
* Sources supported: Digital cable, Analog cable, Digital antenna (ATSC), Analog antenna and broadband content

TIVO TCD653080 TIVO(R) HIGH-DEFINITION COMBINES THE INTELLIGENCE OF THE TIVO(R) SERVICE WITH THE PURITY OF HIGH-DEFINITION A/V; UNIVERSAL CABLE BOX DESIGNED TO WORK WITH ANY CABLE PROVIDER; OFFERS NETWORK CONNECTIVITY OTHER ELECTRONICS

Am I correct to assume that this new unit will require two cable cards?

[sbiller]

Am I correct to assume that this new unit will require two cable cards?

Same as the S3, two single channel CC's or one multi-channel CC.

[dvr4me]

Same as the S3, two single channel CC's or one multi-channel CC.

Hmm... but will it require the cards to use both tuners for ATSC? Doesn't the Series 3 heavy/classic/pro require cards to use both tuners? I'm not all that knowledgeable about the S3 but I was under the impression that you needed cablecards in order to use both tuners and if you only had 1 card only 1 tuner would function (OTA specifically).

Am I wrong?

[MickeS]

Hmm... but will it require the cards to use both tuners for ATSC? Doesn't the Series 3 heavy/classic/pro require cards to use both tuners? I'm not all that knowledgeable about the S3 but I was under the impression that you needed cablecards in order to use both tuners and if you only had 1 card only 1 tuner would function (OTA specifically).

Am I wrong?

I think this is how it is:

0 cards = 2 tuners
1 card = 1 tuner
2 cards = 2 tuners

Nothing so far has indicated anything about the "lite" version working differently or the same.

[jmpage2]

Ahh, now where are the people crying "photoshopped!!" which seems to happen every time new product information gets leaked?

This looks really good. Now we need confirmation that it will support expansion through the eSata port, although an internal hard drive swapout is also probably possible.

If we are getting this info now it should be on shelves in August or September, then big ramp up promotional push during the holidays. I could easily see this bundled with one year Tivo subscription for the big holiday push. :)

Tivo could really turn things around with this one, especially if they bundle in service at the $299 price point.

[snowbunny]

I agree with the low price point being a positive; however, the lack of the Series 2 functionality (MRV, TTG, etc) and being crippled by SDV will either grow the customer base enough that TiVo and their customers can effect change; or simply piss off people who happen to have their HD channels on SDV.

[jmpage2]

What makes you think that this unit or the original S3 won't be able to do TTG or MRV by the end of the year?

Those are the biggest differentiators between Tivo and the "me too" cable/satellite PVRs and I'm sure Tivo is chomping at the bit to implement them.

[phoenixZed]

Kind of hard to tell from that picture, but it looks like it has the an OLED display like the S3. I guess that wasn't a cost cutting requirement...

[drew00001]

I just bought a series 2 that will be delivered in 2 days (converting from Directv to cable and don't want to use the DVR from the cable company).

I might just have to take advantage of the 30 day money back guarantee offer and wait for the S3 Lite to arrive.

I would totally recomend returning the S2. Analog will not be around much longer and you probably do not want to rent a cable box to use the S2.

[Justin Thyme]

Same as the S3, two single channel CC's or one multi-channel CC.There is no confirmation that Multi "Stream" Cards ("MCards") work with the S3, but reportedly the S3-lite has been certified by cablelabs for use with MCards. [Note- although no one calls them multi channel cards, that is pretty much what they are, although I suppose cablecard supports some streams that are not channels (like maybe a Docsis stream?), so calling them multichannel cards is not technically accurate.]

Hmm... but will it require the cards to use both tuners for ATSC? Cablecards are not required for tuning Over the Air (OTA ATSC) stations.

[Justin Thyme]

I know you guys are probably a trifle busy, but it sure would be nice if you folks made some of these units available via Tivo Rewards for us loyalists who have referral points to spend.

Thanks,

=JT=

[lombard]

There is no confirmation that Multi "Stream" Cards ("MCards") work with the S3, but reportedly the S3-lite has been certified by cablelabs for use with MCards.

I've been seeing rumblings about this, but I could have sworn that before the S3 got released TiVo said MCards would work. And I KNOW that the CableCard #1 slot on my S3 has wording along the lines of "First CableCard (Single or Multi stream)"

But just to keep this on topic, IF they enable MRV and IF they get MCards working and IF my CableCo starts handing out MCards (probably going to hog them for all their own cable boxes), I'll be picking one of these up for my bedroom.

[HDTiVo]

There is no confirmation that Multi "Stream" Cards ("MCards") work with the S3, but reportedly the S3-lite has been certified by cablelabs for use with MCards. [Note- although no one calls them multi channel cards, that is pretty much what they are, although I suppose cablecard supports some streams that are not channels (like maybe a Docsis stream?), so calling them multichannel cards is not technically accurate.]

Cablecards are not required for tuning Over the Air (OTA ATSC) stations.
OK, we need to see the verification on the S3-Lite model considering the rumors...

Just checked the 7/10/07 sheet, and its not there. (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5326851&&#post5326851)

[sandenurse]

Wow. This thing must be close if it's showing up on shopping sites already! Bring it on TiVo. This is exactly what I was waiting for!

I predict...August 24th.

30 Days AFTER the current Transfer Lifetime offer expires.

:rolleyes:

[MediaLivingRoom]

TCD653080

http://www.buy.com/prod/tivo-hd/q/loc/111/204822004.html


http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:4Kc3equ6mskJ:www.gopowwow.com/search/query%3Fq%255Bdata%255D%3Dtivo%26q%255Bfilter%255D%3Dproduct %26page%3D6+TCD653080&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=8&gl=us

TIVO TCD653080 TIVO(R) HIGH-DEFINITION
TIVO TCD653080 TIVO(R) HIGH-DEFINITION COMBINES THE INTELLIGENCE OF THE TIVO(R) SERVICE WITH THE PURITY OF HIGH-DEFINITION A/V UNIVERSAL CABLE BOX DESIGNED TO WORK WITH ANY CABLE PROVIDER OFFERS NETWORK CONNECTIVITY Manufacturer?s Part No.: TCD653080 USA Orders Only (no international orders, please). Ships in 1-3 business days. Our price is too low to show. Add to your cart for an instant lower price quote. $299.99 $286.85

[jmpage2]

Looks like a placeholder which means retailers are either in the process of placing their orders or have already done so.

[MediaLivingRoom]

Now you may have a choice of low cost Series 3 TiVo

TCD653080

or

TCD652160

[SullyND]

I've been seeing rumblings about this, but I could have sworn that before the S3 got released TiVo said MCards would work.

The S3 has the hardware, but has not (yet, we think) been certified. More from Pony (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4402702&&#post4402702)

[jmpage2]

Now you may have a choice of low cost Series 3 TiVo

TCD653080

or

TCD652160

Well, until we see the specs we don't know if they aren't in fact the same unit. Sometimes model numbers change right before units go to retail.

[HDTiVo]

I predict...August 24th.

30 Days AFTER the current Transfer Lifetime offer expires.

:rolleyes:
Irrelevent, no backsies. :eek:

I am waiting for the first "I got screwed because I took the LT transfer 64 hours ago" post.
:p

[jrm01]

I predict...August 24th.

30 Days AFTER the current Transfer Lifetime offer expires.

:rolleyes:
As I mentioned in my earlier post, a major CE retailer here was notified by Tivo that it will be in the store sometime between August 5 and 12.

[MickeS]

Now I kinda wish I hadn't bought my Series 3 last month... :/

This one plus $300 worth of extra storage would have been a better deal.

[nemoby]

The pricing is compelling for new buyers but I don't get the feeling that I got burned buying my S3 a month ago. I paid $600 and a bit of change on Amazon and will receive a $200 rebate. Glad to pay the extra $100 and don't have to wait until some future date for it to ship.

[HDTiVo]

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTiVo
So now I've set myself up for looking stupid. :eek:

Funny -- I was thinking the same thing! :D
Maybe next time.

[smark]

I'll pick one up if the upgrade to the HD is fairly easy (prefer eSATA).

[LeeG]

If it werent for the fear of SDV, I'd pick one up the day it comes out. Add TTG and its perfect.


L

[dvr4me]

If it werent for the fear of SDV, I'd pick one up the day it comes out. Add TTG and its perfect.


L

I'm in the market for a standalone tivo (dropping Directv and I don't want to live without Tivo) and had just purchased an S2DT (should be here Thursday). Since reading the information about the S3 Lite I'm seriously considering returning the unit under the 30 day guarantee and getting the S3 Lite when it comes out.

Sure it might not work with SDV, but then again, the S2DT doesn't work with it. The S2DT also won't do HD and doesn't have an OTA antenna if I should drop cable. Since I'm buying a tivo, I'd rather invest $200 more up front and have a fall back (with OTA) if my cable company decides to change the distribution. The full S3 is just too expensive for my budget when you factor in the service.

[ingenue007]

I don't even use the OLED display on mine and use ext HD for expanded storage making 160 gb a moot point. Ugh...

[jmpage2]

I'm in the market for a standalone tivo (dropping Directv and I don't want to live without Tivo) and had just purchased an S2DT (should be here Thursday). Since reading the information about the S3 Lite I'm seriously considering returning the unit under the 30 day guarantee and getting the S3 Lite when it comes out.

Sure it might not work with SDV, but then again, the S2DT doesn't work with it. The S2DT also won't do HD and doesn't have an OTA antenna if I should drop cable. Since I'm buying a tivo, I'd rather invest $200 more up front and have a fall back (with OTA) if my cable company decides to change the distribution. The full S3 is just too expensive for my budget when you factor in the service.

Don't you know better than to bring up budgets and costs when posting on the Tivo forums?

:p

[20TIL6]

I'm in the market for a standalone tivo (dropping Directv and I don't want to live without Tivo) and had just purchased an S2DT (should be here Thursday). Since reading the information about the S3 Lite I'm seriously considering returning the unit under the 30 day guarantee and getting the S3 Lite when it comes out.

Sure it might not work with SDV, but then again, the S2DT doesn't work with it. The S2DT also won't do HD and doesn't have an OTA antenna if I should drop cable. Since I'm buying a tivo, I'd rather invest $200 more up front and have a fall back (with OTA) if my cable company decides to change the distribution. The full S3 is just too expensive for my budget when you factor in the service.
If I were in your shoes, I'd do the same thing. Return the S2, and get the S3 lite.

[dvr4me]

Don't you know better than to bring up budgets and costs when posting on the Tivo forums?

:p

Budget is my wife's name. I get brownie points for mentioning her :D

[moyekj]

This Lite unit seems like the kiss of death for the current S3 hardware (less than a year after release). Based on bits and pieces I have read here and there I don't see any significant downside to this Lite unit compared to current S3 hardware. Hope that doesn't mean no more emphasis on software for the S3. Just hope the S3 and this S3 Lite share the same software so that they both get attention going forwards...

[Adam1115]

The unit is a steal for just a standalone HD OTA TiVo, if nothing else!!

I wish they'd enable MRV for OTA...

[ZeoTiVo]

This Lite unit seems like the kiss of death for the current S3 hardware (less than a year after release). Based on bits and pieces I have read here and there I don't see any significant downside to this Lite unit compared to current S3 hardware. Hope that doesn't mean no more emphasis on software for the S3. Just hope the S3 and this S3 Lite share the same software so that they both get attention going forwards...
well the S3 price has come down and since it is the quality unit then it still will have some sales legs in it. But if TiVo sells lots of this new one then they will just have to live with that ;)

in any case this new S3 will most likely use the same codee base as the current S3 and both will be supported for some time to come. The idea of ending updates for the current S3 is just not substantiated by anything we have seen to date in other model releases

[jfh3]

I know you guys are probably a trifle busy, but it sure would be nice if you folks made some of these units available via Tivo Rewards for us loyalists who have referral points to spend.

Thanks,

=JT=

+1 :up:

[jfh3]

Tivo Series3 Specifications (TCD648250B)
- BCM7038 DVR CPU with MPEG-2 decoder
- BCM7411 MPEG-4 decoder
- 2x BCM7042 MPEG-2 encoders
- 2x Samsung S5H1409-based tuners (analog/QAM/8VSB)


Unconfirmed Series3 "Lite" Specifications (TCD652160)
- BCM740x DVR CPU w/ integrated MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 decoders
- 1x dual MPEG-2 encoder (BCM7041 or possibly an encoder from LSI)
- 2x Samsung S5H1411 (http://www.koreanewswire.co.kr/en_read.php?id=249158&no=0&nmode=&ca=&ca1=English-&ca2=&sf=&st=&of=&nwof=&conttype=&tm=1&type=&hotissue=&sdate=&eflag=&emonth=&spno=&exid=&rg1=&rg2=&rg3=&tt=/)-based tuners (analog/QAM/8VSB)



Since you are quite knowledgable regarding the various chipsets, care to do a comparasion between the S3 and S3lite for us, in terms of potential capabilities, speed, etc.?

[MickeS]

This Lite unit seems like the kiss of death for the current S3 hardware (less than a year after release). Based on bits and pieces I have read here and there I don't see any significant downside to this Lite unit compared to current S3 hardware. Hope that doesn't mean no more emphasis on software for the S3. Just hope the S3 and this S3 Lite share the same software so that they both get attention going forwards...
I don't worry about that at all. They're still very similar and will no doubt use the same software. The main hardware differences based on the previous post seems to be a new tuner chip in the Lite, and an integrated MPEG4/2 decoder chip rather than two separate chips.

[Justin Thyme]

The S3 has the hardware, but has not (yet, we think) been certified. More from Pony (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4402702&&#post4402702)
Bob's note was prior to CableLabs' creation of a certification process for MCards in Nov/Dec 2006.

DT_DC noticed the appearance of the S3 in a certification wave in March. The appearance on the list was odd because it was already Cablecard certified and all subsequent models can be self certified. What would explain it is if it were an MCard certification because they would not have been able to self certify that, and so that was DT's guess (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=345055).

The S3 lite would then be a self certification. That would explain why a search on those model numbers do not turn up on the cablelabs site, but the S3's does.

Besides circumstantial information likes this, it just stands to reason that they would not release the S3 lite to manufacturing without the MCard certification, so DT's guess was probably correct.

Although it is likely- we just don't have any official confirmation of this status- not that it matters because there may be some ramping up before most cableco servers support the MCards.

[audio]

I have been waiting for this box since I heard about it.

Before I buy, I have a question about the S3:

I know that TTG and MRV do not work with the S3 box (keeping fingers crossed). For those of you that do have an S3, are you able to use Amazon Unbox?

If so, how is the picture? With my S2DT the picture is almost DVD quality. I imagine, because it's a purely digital box that the S3 would have a better picture.

[mattack]

I haven't read this whole thread -- but in the first couple of pages, people talk about removal of analog tuners.

I thought that CableCard certification REQUIRED the ability to tune analog channels.
Is that not actually true?

[MickeS]

I know that TTG and MRV do not work with the S3 box (keeping fingers crossed). For those of you that do have an S3, are you able to use Amazon Unbox?

If so, how is the picture? With my S2DT the picture is almost DVD quality. I imagine, because it's a purely digital box that the S3 would have a better picture.
Yes, Unbox works on Series 3.
I have not compared to the Series 2, but it looks about between "Best" TiVo recording quality and DVD.

[Redux]

For those of you that do have an S3, are you able to use Amazon Unbox?

If so, how is the picture? With my S2DT the picture is almost DVD quality. I imagine, because it's a purely digital box that the S3 would have a better picture.Picture varies according to source. OK. Casual viewers won't generally see a huge amout of in-your-face defieciencies compared to DVDs, though they are there.

Shouldn't be any huge difference between the s2 & s3 in playback.

[HDTiVo]

Like I said when the S3 was introduced, its not going to bother me if they grab some low hanging fanboys for $299 for a short while. But they need to come down $50, maybe $70 for XMAS to really hit it big. So I hope they can afford that.

I am a little more positive about the pricing than I was previously ( http://hdtivo.wordpress.com/2007/07/14/more-signs-of-lite/ ); $299 is a pretty good start. I’d like to see them come down $20-50 by XMAS.

I think TiVo could have moderate success with this, restricted of course by the price/commitments of service.

[herfmonster]

What is the right DVR/price for this year's market?

The right DVR for ME will be a S-3 or S-4 that includes at least a...

250G hard drive
HDMI output
Dual ATSC tuners...and...
A LIFETIME SUBSCRIPTION OFFER...AND...
A DUAL LAYER BLU-RAY BURNER BUILT IN!!!

The price I will snap this device up at is $599.99

I think I still have about two years to wait for that device and price.

The renewal of the lifetime subscription offer or not isn't a deal breaker but would seal the deal. I would be willing to pay $399.99 for lifetime service.

[Adam1115]

The right DVR for ME will be a S-3 or S-4 that includes at least a...

250G hard drive
HDMI output
Dual ATSC tuners...and...
A LIFETIME SUBSCRIPTION OFFER...AND...
A DUAL LAYER BLU-RAY BURNER BUILT IN!!!

The price I will snap this device up at is $599.99

I think I still have about two years to wait for that device and price.

The renewal of the lifetime subscription offer or not isn't a deal breaker but would seal the deal. I would be willing to pay $399.99 for lifetime service.

The right one for ME is one that

- Makes me coffee in the morning
- Brings me beer at night
- Makes popcorn
- Runs on air instead of electricity
- Has a built in 400" projector

For $99, I'd snap it up!

[gastrof]

Aside from the standard TiVo remote and no front panel display, is this really a "lite" version of the Series 3?

Seems to have all the other features.

[aaronwt]

This Lite unit seems like the kiss of death for the current S3 hardware (less than a year after release). Based on bits and pieces I have read here and there I don't see any significant downside to this Lite unit compared to current S3 hardware. Hope that doesn't mean no more emphasis on software for the S3. Just hope the S3 and this S3 Lite share the same software so that they both get attention going forwards...

I've become very used to the OLED panel now, I use it all the time to see what is being recorded. So much that I would probably not want an S3 without it unless the cost savings was major like $300 but my last S3 was only around $540 back in December.

[Justin Thyme]

Aside from the standard TiVo remote and no front panel display, is this really a "lite" version of the Series 3?

Seems to have all the other features.

Not lite on features. Lite on the wallet.

[MickeS]

Aside from the standard TiVo remote and no front panel display, is this really a "lite" version of the Series 3?

Seems to have all the other features.
It could just be the components, as pointed out earlier. Integrated chips for decoding rather than separate chips, and other stuff, as well as the smaller HD, missing display and different remote.

Even though a 540 model series 2 is newer than a 240 model, it is doing some things slower due to having integrated chips (as I understand it). Could be a similar situation here.

Not sure if that's worth warranting the "lite" tag though - that will not be the name (also mentioned earlier :)).

[tenthplanet]

Unless the "lite" performs better than the original S-3 I really don't see the point of it.
Tivo makes their money on the service not such much on the units. I have seen too many consumer electronic products go from quality to cheap. It happened to VCR's, DVD recorders seem to be going that route also. Unless a company is subsidizing the price of a unit cheaper usually means something changed. And finally if this is built in China it will never be in this house.

[SullyND]

Not lite on features. Lite on the wallet.

Tastes great, less filling.

Assuming the S3 continues in it's current form, would seem it could use at least a boost in HD capacity.

[jrm01]

Not sure if that's worth warranting the "lite" tag though - that will not be the name (also mentioned earlier :)).
It's development name was Fusion, but they seem to be leaning toward just calling it Tivo HD.

[sbiller]

Tastes great, less filling.

Assuming the S3 continues in it's current form, would seem it could use at least a boost in HD capacity.

One point on the current S3 is that it is a very good tuner/receiver/upscaler. Personally, my SD channels look a lot better on the S3 then they did via a Scientific Atlanta cable box. I'm not sure if that is related to the THX certification, but it has great picture quality. I'm very interested to see if the new S3-lite matches the PQ of the S3.

[ncbagwell]

I like the sound of this but I still need an answer on MRV and TTCB before I snap it up.

[joewmaki]

Will it have an eSATA port on it for external storage expansion? The version on Gizmodo gave some indication that this "S3 Lite" might have Cable Card 2.0 support also.

This could be the real 'lite' aspect, if it doesn't have the eSATA port. But then, the port use is not officially supported yet anyway.

[bkdtv]

Since you are quite knowledgable regarding the various chipsets, care to do a comparasion between the S3 and S3lite for us, in terms of potential capabilities, speed, etc.?There's not much difference in performance. Broadcom claims 450 DMIPs for its cheapest integrated solution as compared to 420 DMIPs for the older chip in the Series3. Both run at 300MHz and have the same 32Kb data and 32Kb instruction caches.

Basically, the new model does everything the current S3 does...it just takes advantage of newer, cheaper, and more highly integrated parts to simplify board design.

[vstone]

What's the BCM7411 MPEG-4 decoder used for? Internet downloads?

How much is a DOCSIS 2 chip? (for two way comms)

[MickeS]

What's the BCM7411 MPEG-4 decoder used for? Internet downloads?

It's not used for anything currently, but otherwise, yeah I guess they intend to possible use it with downloaded material.

[moyekj]

What's the BCM7411 MPEG-4 decoder used for? Internet downloads?
It will be presumably useful for the forthcoming MRV/TTG/TTCB capability as a means to play mpeg4 files on your S3 from your PC via Tivo Desktop.

[Justin Thyme]

Basically, the new model does everything the current S3 does...it just takes advantage of newer, cheaper, and more highly integrated parts to simplify board design.As Micke intimated, looks like a page out of the Tivo playbook with the of the 2.0 to 2.5 board transition. I sure do hope the decoder won't jitter on high bitrate Hidef like what I saw in the S3 tests when I had TivoBack temporarily running. I can grumble about there not being more memory headroom and power in the video post processing but jeez this is impressive from a less appreciated aspect of what good engineering staffs do.

This price point and being final this early in the season will have the channel full with time to spare for Christmas. Battles are won or lost by putting metal on target, where give or take a few months doesn't cut it. I think part of this story that's getting missed here is that the S3 lite delivery is a demonstration of world class schedule discipline. Anyway, I'd like to see some good close up photos of the board, and to hear which chips are certain/ which are still speculative.

Assuming the S3 continues in it's current form, would seem it could use at least a boost in HD capacity.The ease of eSata upgrades will make such aftermarket upgrades a lot simpler and common for a broad market.

Really, some folks just want to time shift one or two shows rather than have a VOD like system with a thousand movies available on their Tivo.

Anyway- congratulations to the Tivo Hardware team.

[pkscout]

Ahh, now where are the people crying "photoshopped!!" which seems to happen every time new product information gets leaked?

Here I am. And I'm unwilling to believe this rumor based simply on a better picture. When I see an announcement I will believe it. Until then I won't. I don't see how TiVo can shave $500 off the price of the box just by dropping the OLED panel, the fancy remote, and the THX certification. Unless they've decided to lose money on every box and make it up in volume. ;)

[xnevergiveinx]

i think this new tivo box is what will keep me with tivo. my series 2 is decent, but having s-video for the best picture quality and only being able to record at 480i is starting to turn out bad on my new hdtv
also, it's only a single tuner
i have been getting along with my series 2 box because i have been watching it on an old crt

i'm very happy for tivo's decision to make an affordable series 3 box, now i won't have to stray from tivo and be even more unhappy with a time warner dvr or something

[MickeS]

Here I am. And I'm unwilling to believe this rumor based simply on a better picture. When I see an announcement I will believe it. Until then I won't. I don't see how TiVo can shave $500 off the price of the box just by dropping the OLED panel, the fancy remote, and the THX certification. Unless they've decided to lose money on every box and make it up in volume. ;)
Maybe your cats helped them out with that too! :)

[wolflord11]

So does this mean when the Tivo Series 3 Lite comes out, sales will increase alot, as the Price of the Series 3 has been a major issue to alot of folks...I for one may look at it, after working out all the costs of changing to cable and that...

BUT: the sales of the Original Series 3 will drop alot. Why pay double the price for something that does the same job? Sure you do not have the fancy Front Panel, the better remote and all that, but then again, those parts could always be Sold by Tivo as upgrades to the unit :D

The introduction of the Series 3 Lite could be the death of the Original Series 3. Looking at it this way, the Series 3 has had the shortest lifespan of any Tivo unit.

[SugarBowl]

So does this mean when the Tivo Series 3 Lite comes out, sales will increase alot, as the Price of the Series 3 has been a major issue to alot of folks...I for one may look at it, after working out all the costs of changing to cable and that...

BUT: the sales of the Original Series 3 will drop alot. Why pay double the price for something that does the same job? Sure you do not have the fancy Front Panel, the better remote and all that, but then again, those parts could always be Sold by Tivo as upgrades to the unit :D

The introduction of the Series 3 Lite could be the death of the Original Series 3. Looking at it this way, the Series 3 has had the shortest lifespan of any Tivo unit.

Seems like the series 3 was just an IPO of sorts, to raise money from the diehards, and gain another year of development on the real product.

[jgerry]

As long as it takes CableCards and isn't a crappy Motorola DVR, I'm in. SATA port enabled for more storage would be a nice bonus too.

[davecramer74]

Looks like the earlier posts are correct. Just a slimmed down model wtih cheaper m/b and power supply and smaller hard drive. No SDV or VOD support. Ill be waiting longer i guess, sucks!.

[classicsat]

Features for TiVo TCD652160 HD Digital Video Recorder:

TIVO TCD653080

Unless TiVo changed their product numbering scheme;

I wonder what the difference is between the 652 and 653 units are (besides HDD size)?

Does the second digit being 5 mean anything? Usually Tivo branded units have a 4 there. I interpret that may be another CE partner selling them.

The 080 part means, at least in traditional TiVo product numbering, and 80 GB HDD. Could that be a digital SD only Series 3?

[Revolutionary]

Here I am. And I'm unwilling to believe this rumor based simply on a better picture. When I see an announcement I will believe it. Until then I won't. I don't see how TiVo can shave $500 off the price of the box just by dropping the OLED panel, the fancy remote, and the THX certification. Unless they've decided to lose money on every box and make it up in volume. ;)

You've got it backward. The Series3 was the bleeding edge moneymaker, the proceeds from which bankrolled development of the S3-Lite. The S3 was over priced. They'll shave $100 off production, $300 off the sticker, and still end up with a profitable commodity box that we think is a steal because we've been innoculated by the overpriced Series3. ;)

[Hogues92]

The S3 has the hardware, but has not (yet, we think) been certified.

I have one mcard in the correct slot on my Tivo (Comcast only had one card at the time and it took me 3 visits to get that). As of know it is only working with one tuner. Unless I'm doing something wrong, it appears that this feature has not been enabled yet. I'm hoping for it soon because I don't think I can stomach another round with Comcast.

[Riblet2000]

You've got it backward. The Series3 was the bleeding edge moneymaker, the proceeds from which bankrolled development of the S3-Lite. The S3 was over priced. They'll shave $100 off production, $300 off the sticker, and still end up with a profitable commodity box that we think is a steal because we've been innoculated by the overpriced Series3. ;)

Hey, if it works for Apple... :cool:

This is great news.

[bown]

Kind of hard to tell from that picture, but it looks like it has the an OLED display like the S3. I guess that wasn't a cost cutting requirement...

the engadget article says that the OLED was axed for the Tivo lite. It also comes with the regular S2 remote.

[Dan Clarke]

If this is true and they bring back limited lifetime transfers, I'm buying this in a heartbeat.

I would *LOVE* to get rid of this turd Motorola 6412. Oh no, I lose VOD? How will I live, not being able to see PBS Sprout or Fuse or whatever stupid stuff is on there! It's not like it's in HD or anything!

[wolflord11]

If all works out, then I would be p***ed if I had purchased a Series 3 and paid Full price.

But I suppose if you had the Money to purchase a Series 3 in the first place, then you have nothing to complain about :D

[MickeS]

BUT: the sales of the Original Series 3 will drop alot. Why pay double the price for something that does the same job?

Good point. If the speculation here is true, there isn't much in terms of actual usability that sets the units apart. The hard drive size is a non-issue for many since it will be upgraded anyway.

I can't see the value in keeping the S3 in production anymore when this unit comes out, unless they significantly drop the MSRP (to maybe $399) and leave that as the option for those who want a bigger hard drive right out of the box.

[HiDefGator]

The introduction of the Series 3 Lite could be the death of the Original Series 3.

I think I suggested this several months back. It doesn't make sense to keep producing both if the original S3 still isn't selling well. It's unlikely the S3-Lite will increase sales of the original S3.

[ZeoTiVo]

I think I suggested this several months back. It doesn't make sense to keep producing both if the original S3 still isn't selling well. It's unlikely the S3-Lite will increase sales of the original S3.
yah, just like you do not see TiVo selling single tuner S2 models anymore - but they still get software updates and those extra features work the same.

The S3 line will be the same though the original S3 has the premium factor going for it that might keep it around in limited quantity

[stevereis]

Unless TiVo changed their product numbering scheme;

I wonder what the difference is between the 652 and 653 units are (besides HDD size)?

Does the second digit being 5 mean anything? Usually Tivo branded units have a 4 there. I interpret that may be another CE partner selling them.

The 080 part means, at least in traditional TiVo product numbering, and 80 GB HDD. Could that be a digital SD only Series 3?

I made this post in April '06 based on info I found, from you, among others:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3968916&&#post3968916. This is the info originally posted, with some edits now that the S2DT and S3 are now out.

Posting the info from classicsat's post on that 'other' forum into this thread
My updates are bold, based on the new model numbers:
TCD648250A - HD, Dual Tuner, Dual CableCard, Dual ATSC
TCD649180/TCD649080 - SD, Dual Tuner

Model format ABCDDD
ABC being the first digits of a TiVo or AT&T brand Model, and the first 3 digits of the service number. DDD is a representaion of drive size.

A is platform series:
0: Series 1
1: Series 2 Gen 1, USB 1.1 Standalone / Pre RID DirecTV DVR (USB 2.0)
2: Series 2 Gen 2, USB 2.0 Standalone.
3: Series 2 Gen 1, RID DirecTV DVR (USB2.0).
4: Series 2 Gen 2, RID DirecTV DVR.
5: Series 2.5 Gen 3, USB2.0 Standalone + DirecTV DVR (R10)
6: Series 3 or just dual tuner?

B is manuufacturer:
0: Philips
1: Sony
2: Toshiba or RCA (121, 321, 521)?
3: AT&T or Hughes?
4: TiVo
5: Pioneer or Hughes (151, 351, 357, etc.)?
6: RCA/Thomson or Toshiba (264, 565)?
7: Hughes or Pioneer: 275?
8: Samsung
9: Humax
E: TGC (TiVo Greater China)?
Followup posts over there indicate 2/6 and 3/7 may be swapped

C is hardware configuration
0: Single HDD drive
1: DirecTV DVR
2: dual HDD any reports of these?
4: DVD player
5: DVD recorder
8: HD Dual Tuner w/CableCard
9: SD Dual Tuner

[Dan Clarke]

Totally OT, but Tivo.com is selling "refurb" Series 3 for $499 right now ...

[pkscout]

If all works out, then I would be p***ed if I had purchased a Series 3 and paid Full price.

But I suppose if you had the Money to purchase a Series 3 in the first place, then you have nothing to complain about :D

I'll admit to a small amount of frustration, as it will have been a little less than a year between the $800 S3 and the supposedly $300 S3 Lite. OK, I probably wouldn't care at all if I had bought the S3 on day one. I got my at the end of December because our HD TiVo died and I didn't want to have to sign another contract to get DirecTV's new non-TiVo.

But really, I'm barely upset at all. The S3 has been good to me and for me.

[MickeS]

I'll admit to a small amount of frustration, as it will have been a little less than a year between the $800 S3 and the supposedly $300 S3 Lite. OK, I probably wouldn't care at all if I had bought the S3 on day one. I got my at the end of December because our HD TiVo died and I didn't want to have to sign another contract to get DirecTV's new non-TiVo.

But really, I'm barely upset at all. The S3 has been good to me and for me.
I'm a little upset, since I bought mine last month. But that's life when it comes to CE. You can't stop progress. :)

[Justin Thyme]

I have one mcard in the correct slot on my Tivo (Comcast only had one card at the time and it took me 3 visits to get that). As of know it is only working with one tuner. Unless I'm doing something wrong, it appears that this feature has not been enabled yet. I'm hoping for it soon because I don't think I can stomach another round with Comcast.
FCC regulations state that Comcast must provide you any number of cablecards that you desire.

However, the S3 will treat any installed MCard as an SCard until all of the following occurs:

Cablelabs certifies the S3 as an MCard Host (this may have happened, but there is no proof).
The server that supports the cable lines for your neighborhood is updated to support MCards. Unless the cable company needed to distibute new MCard set top boxes in your neighborhood, there is nothing requiring them to upgrade.
Tivo downloads the MCard software update to Series 3's. No such announcement has been made.


I see no announcement from Cablelabs that ANY Tivo has achieved certification for M-Card operation (M-UDCP host certification). Nor, for that matter, Mcard Host certification for Any device from ANY company. That is more than a little bit surprizing given that the Cable industry promised we would have MCard support by this time last year. It's startling because you would have to have two $1400 OCUR cablecard readers to do what one S3 does, so the computer industry is a heck of a lot more motivated to get MCard Host certification complete, and yet I see no mention of their certifications for MCArd.

I wonder if devices could be certified and there be no Cablelabs announcement. I wonder if Moto and SciAtl boxes using MCards have to be certified. It seems to me that they definately would have to be using certified SCards and MCards in their new boxes after 7/1/2007 ban. But it also seems to me that it wouldn't be fair if the Cableco boxes only trivially used the Cablecards whereas third parties had to fully use them. The only way to verify this would be to require cablelabs certification for the cableco provided boxes as well.

[pkscout]

Nor, for that matter, Mcard Host certification for Any device from ANY company. That is more than a little bit surprizing given that the Cable industry promised we would have MCard support by this time last year.

It'll only be surprising if we still don't have it in 2010. If the cable companies are only a year behind their "promise" with regards to multi-stream cable cards then that's par for the course.

But it also seems to me that it wouldn't be fair if the Cableco boxes only trivially used the Cablecards whereas third parties had to fully use them. The only way to verify this would be to require cablelabs certification for the cableco provided boxes as well.

There hasn't been anything fair about the process to date, why should anything change now. ;)

[moyekj]

Nor, for that matter, Mcard Host certification for Any device from ANY company. That is more than a little bit surprizing given that the Cable industry promised we would have MCard support by this time last year. Well there are cable companies already deploying the Moto DCH3416 to customers, so I have to presume there is an M-card in the back slot of those. In my local cable AVS forum I asked a poster to check the back of his DCH3416 but it looks like cable card slot in the back has a screwed in metal plate over it (probably to prevent tampering) so you can't see if there is a card in there or not unless it is removed (which he didn't want to do). Maybe it is possible to use the DCH without removable security (since it's backwards compatible with DCT) but that would seem to violate the spirit of the FCC regulation (and would seem pointless for cable companies to deploy as such).

[Adam1115]

We made the news..!

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070718-nothing-too-lite-about-new-299-tivo-series-3-unit.html

http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/18/1815225&from=rss

[Justin Thyme]

Anyone who can't get the necessary cablecards from their cablecompany- the fastest way to resolve it is to call Tivo support. They have dealt with this before and know how to read the riot act to the local cable company. It's a pretty serious violation, and the local management may simply be ignorant that they are violating federal regulations.

Or you can make a complaint to the FCC directly:
http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/complaints_general.html

The regulation is:
47CFR76.640

(3) Cable operators shall ensure, as to all digital cable systems, an adequate supply of PODs that comply with the standards specified in paragraph (b)(2) of this section to ensure convenient access to such PODS by customers. (source) (http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/09nov20051500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2005/octqtr/47cfr76.640.htm)

[Justin Thyme]

We made the news..!

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070718-nothing-too-lite-about-new-299-tivo-series-3-unit.html

Hey Ars Technica- have the decency to credit the specific person. Bkdtv scooped this. He came up with the model number, specs you quoted and the suggestion to google for the model number to find pictures/ confirmation from multiple retail sites.

Apparently Megazone discovered this way back on July 4th, but since he was under NDA, he decided it would be unethical to release info. He searched for Tivo HD on Froogle and it gave him a model number. Actually the hit is still there. Using the model number in Google gave him everything because amazon and everyone us has their copy up on the net on hidden pages that the google crawler found.

Mega says he is skeptical about the specs posted since he has seen no confirmation. More on the TivoLovers site (http://www.tivolovers.com/2007/07/17/more-tivo-series3-lite-leaks/).

[jmpage2]

Per the pricing and recent rebate on the S3.

I have noticed that local retailer stock on the original S3 at Best Buy, Circuit and others has been depleted ever since the $200 rebate ran.

I am getting suspicious now that the rebate might have been used to bring down the inventory level on the S3 box to make way for this new S3 Lite box.

[aaronwt]

We made the news..!

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070718-nothing-too-lite-about-new-299-tivo-series-3-unit.html

http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/18/1815225&from=rss

So I guess the new one should have even better tuners. It looks like a good deal. As long as the hard drive can be upgraded I can go without the OLED panel and get this for a 4th unit. If they have a lifetime transfer I might be able to get my girlfriend one to replace one of the Lifetime Series 2 single tuner units she has. I still have to finish convincing her to get an HD set. It took me 5 years to convince her to get a TiVo.(Actually accept the TiVos as a birthday present)

[jfh3]

Unless the "lite" performs better than the original S-3 I really don't see the point of it.
Tivo makes their money on the service not such much on the units.

You're kidding, right? You are correct - Tivo makes the money on the service, not the hardware. But it's hard to sell service if you have hardware the masses can't afford. $799 MSRP was a much tougher sell than $299 MSRP.

For all practical purposes, the Series 2 line is at (or nearing) end of life. If the price point on the "S3 lite" box is as rumored, you can have HD/digital support for essentially the same price as analog. If TTG/MRV is added to the S3 s/w, then I don't really see an advantage of getting an S2 (yes, I know the S3lite will still be slightly more) if your TV signal is OTA or cable.

(Sat users will still need Series 2)

[jfh3]

Seems like the series 3 was just an IPO of sorts, to raise money from the diehards, and gain another year of development on the real product.

And if the sales team hadn't so thoroughly screwed the initial sales (remember the "Lucky 200"?), Tivo could've made a lot more money on the initial S3 sales. :)

Remember - the S3 was the first box sold without a hardware subsidy. I suspect there will be a little h/w subsidy in the S3lite.

I was one of the early adopters and don't mind one bit that I bought an S3 with an "early adopter tax" (though I paid about $680 each for my two from a local retailer and price matching when Tivo couldn't take $799).

I raise my eyebrows a bit with the 160GB drive, though that's slightly better than the vast majority most of the existing cable DVRs in the field, and less of an issue if Tivo makes eSata plug and play like the Tivo wireless G (my Dad isn't ready for a Kickstart sequence, he can handle plugging in a cable and rebooting).

Edit: Changed 180GB to 160GB

[Justin Thyme]

So I guess the new one should have even better tuners.As Mega suggested, take the technical specs with a big grain of salt. The tuner listed- the Samsung S5H1411 purportedly gets 30% better reception in heavy multipath (city building reflections) situations, but the announcement for that chip was May 10, and as of Jun 28 (http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:CI-VkWR5bCoJ:origin.samsung.com/Products/Semiconductor/common/product_list.aspx%3Ffamily_cd%3DDMA0601+S5H1411+site:samsung .com&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us), the samsung site said it was still in a production status of "sample ready", not "mass production", as is the S5H1409- the 2005 model getting 30% worse reception.

So really- we can have fun guessing, but beyond what the screen dumps from Amazon said, don't assume too much. The folks that know what this beastie has got under the hood aren't talking, and the retail sites that did leak info were way too vague to specify anything interesting.

[jrm01]

If all works out, then I would be p***ed if I had purchased a Series 3 and paid Full price.


Yeah I was one of the early guys who paid $799 8 months ago, so I guess I'm p***ed.

I also bought a 57" 1080p DLP 18 months ago for $3200 and now it's $2000.

I also bought a Toshiba laptop 13 months ago for $1100, now it's $700.

I also bought a ...........oh forget it. I'm just p***ed! :( :( :( :)

[jfh3]

as of Jun 28, the samsung site said it was still in a production status of "sample ready", not "mass production", as is the S5H1409- the 2005 model getting 30% worse reception.

Of course, given the number of boxes Tivo is selling these days, maybe a Samsung production status of "sample ready" isn't that much of a problem ... :)

[doormat]

$300 is a great value for a HD TiVo. I hope this does become reality, as it'll get me to buy one. At that point I worry less about SDV and the off chance of the box becoming a doorstop in 3 years. I dont need the OLED screen, THX certification and eSATA (I'll just throw in a bigger HD every two years). Not having a TiVo on my HDTV is really starting to bother me. I might even get rid of my S2 box in my room (just because I need to stop laying in bed every night until midnight watching TV... I might just get rid of the TV too).

[HDTiVo]

Yeah I was one of the early guys who paid $799 8 months ago, so I guess I'm p***ed.

I also bought a 57" 1080p DLP 18 months ago for $3200 and now it's $2000.

I also bought a Toshiba laptop 13 months ago for $1100, now it's $700.

I also bought a ...........oh forget it. I'm just p***ed! :( :( :( :)
The way you are spending money, I'd be surprised if you had a pot to piss in. :p

Of course, given the number of boxes Tivo is selling these days, maybe a Samsung production status of "sample ready" isn't that much of a problem ... :)
That's brutal. :D

I raise my eyebrows a bit with the 180GB drive
Raise 'em just a bit more; its 160. :eek:

[nhaigh]

Yeah I was one of the early guys who paid $799 8 months ago, so I guess I'm p***ed.

I also bought a 57" 1080p DLP 18 months ago for $3200 and now it's $2000.

I also bought a Toshiba laptop 13 months ago for $1100, now it's $700.

I also bought a ...........oh forget it. I'm just p***ed! :( :( :( :)


I bought a 60" TV, TiVo S3 and HT System the week the S3 came out. I'd been hanging on until its release. All of it is much cheaper now, but I've had the enjoyment of it all this time. No regrets at all.

[jfh3]

I wonder if there will be any smaller cable companies buying these boxes to use to rent to their own customers? (The cable co-op marketing deal from a while back)

[GoHokies!]

I bought a 60" TV, TiVo S3 and HT System the week the S3 came out. I'd been hanging on until its release. All of it is much cheaper now, but I've had the enjoyment of it all this time. No regrets at all.That makes two of us. I actually bought the TV in late August on the rumors of "coming soon" and suffered through the cable company crap for about a month before Comcast could come and take it away and give me my cable cards, and that month just reinforced the fact that I made the right decision jumping when I did. I've had a great 10 months of HD and have been loving it! :D

[HDTiVo]

I wonder if there will be any smaller cable companies buying these boxes to use to rent to their own customers? (The cable co-op marketing deal from a while back)
What would happen on the "service" end?

[jrm01]

The way you are spending money, I'd be surprised if you had a pot to piss in. :p



I don't. My ex-wife got that. :p

[tibruk]

Okay, hate to bring up this question but here goes. Everyone is saying a retail price of $299.99. Will there be a different price if bought with a subscription deal?

Tibruk

[pkscout]

Okay, hate to bring up this question but here goes. Everyone is saying a retail price of $299.99. Will there be a different price if bought with a subscription deal?

Tibruk

Sure, with a three year subscription it will be $598. :D

[HDTiVo]

I don't. My ex-wife got that. :p
You had an excellent pre-nup. Congrats. :up: :) :up:

Okay, hate to bring up this question but here goes. Everyone is saying a retail price of $299.99. Will there be a different price if bought with a subscription deal?

Tibruk
Since November, TiVo has been keeping the retail prices on par with the bundle prices for the DT. I think the S3-lite is more likely to follow that.

[Dajad]

It surprises me how many people are upset because a cheaper unit is coming out. This reminds me of the Parable of the Talents (I believe). Hey, if you thought the unit was worth what you paid for it, why bregrudge someone else getting a better deal. I bought the S3 last November and I have no regrets. I bought my PS3 2 months ago and now Sony is lowering the price. That's life. I'm happy to see the price go down so more people can enjoy these products (not that there is much to enjoy on the PS3 right now however! :) ).

[eddyj]

And the early S3 adopters were able to transfer their lifetime to those boxes.

[Mike20878]

Here's another blog entry on this:

http://www.tvsquad.com/category/tivo/

[BobCamp1]

Now you may have a choice of low cost Series 3 TiVo

TCD653080

or

TCD652160

If the two were the same except for HD space, you'd think the part number would 2080 instead of 3080. So something else could be different.

Maybe the 3080 is not a DVR as such, but something you would use as a regular set top box and as a receiver for MRV. It would only need a small HD (80 GB) to store the OS and to act as a buffer for the show being streamed. Maybe single-tuner HD only with one CableCard. No need for eSATA. Just a simple box to plug into your bedroom TV.

So you'd buy one big Tivo, and a bunch of mini-Tivos. This is how Verizon does MRV -- the regular HD set top boxes can stream directly from the main DVR.

[rmassey]

OK, so I just bought an s3 w/ the $200 rebate, net cost $400.

New S3L will be $299.
For +$100 I get... 1) +90 gb of storage (250 vs 160 on S3L), 2) a better remote, 3) THX cert. and 4) OLED Display, 5) a nicer case + 6) eSata port - will the S3L have this or not?

Works for me :) that seems to be worth $100 IMO. No complaints here. Plus I get to use my S3 now rather than wait for the S3L release.

[snathanb]

I'm a little upset, since I bought mine last month. But that's life when it comes to CE. You can't stop progress. :)

I bought mine last month, too (well, my second one), and it was only $399 after rebate, so no biggie.

[jrm01]

Sure, with a three year subscription it will be $598. :D
Actually I think it will be $598.99. ;)

[jrm01]

I bought mine last month, too (well, my second one), and it was only $399 after rebate, so no biggie.
You did good. :) :)

[hybucket]

You did good. :) :)

Where are you "good shoppers" finding those rebate deals??

[phoenixZed]

the engadget article says that the OLED was axed for the Tivo lite. It also comes with the regular S2 remote.

Yeah you're right. When I got a chance to look at the larger image Megazone posted on his site, I could see that the blurry line of text I took for a show title is actually the word "Native", which instead refers to how the signal is output. My bad...

[doormat]

Where are you "good shoppers" finding those rebate deals??
There was a $200 rebate last month that brought the price down to $400 or so.

That said, I wonder if the parts have come down in price since TiVo built the S3 box initially - now we see all these STBs from Netgear and Apple that include video playback functionality. So the bcm chips had to come down in price because the market is becoming competitive. And if you figure the box cost $500 this time last year, the parts are now probably 300, plus the cheaper case and such leads to a BOM cost of somewhere around 250. Plus 50 for the manufacturing and shipping, and TiVo is selling them for a bit of a loss, but they can probably move tons of these boxes now that HD is becoming more mainstream. Having them ready for Christmas 07 is a big deal, since we'll probably see $999 42" LCD HDTVs en masse this year.

[ZeoTiVo]

I don't. My ex-wife got that. :p
well that explains why you can spend so freely on electronic gadgets now ;)

[jrm01]

well that explains why you can spend so freely on electronic gadgets now ;)
You got that right. It's surprising what descretionary funds you have available when you eliminate hair dressers, white wine, new draperies, and second green fees (I played 184 rounds of golf last year, she played 132).

[jfh3]

What would happen on the "service" end?

Don't know - I don't recall the terms of the initial marketing agreement. I presume the cable company would pay Tivo some monthly fee on behalf of the sub.

Everyone wins - customer gets a real Tivo experience without upfront cost; cable company makes money on the rental and part of the monthly service fee. I'd guess Tivo would get more than the $1+ they get for DTV, but don't know.

[petew]

If the two were the same except for HD space, you'd think the part number would 2080 instead of 3080. So something else could be different.


Given that an 80Gb disk would only be 8hrs of HD, my guess would be a SD only digital box.