Powering Up TV Reboots Series 2 TiVo

[DropIt]

I recently bought a brand new TV (Sharp Aquos LCD), and it seems that every time I turn it on my Standalone Series 2 TiVo reboots. I never had this problem with my old CRT so I am a bit perplexed.

At first I thought that the LCD was pulling too much power when I first turn it on. Everything was plugged into the same surge protector so I bought a Uninterruptible Power Supply and powered just the TiVo and my direcTV receiver off of it. Unfortunately it still had the problem.

Last night I figured I see if the fact the TiVo and the LCD TV were in the same circuit was the problem so I plugged the TV into another outlet that I know is powered of separate circuit breaker. Guess what? Still rebooting :(

Anyone ever seen anything like this?

My only other thought was that the TV was causing a problem through the video or audio connections, but Everything goes through an AV Receiver.

Here's the video and audio set up:

Satellite -> TiVo -> Yamaha AV Receiver -> LCD TV

Here's the power set up

Outlet #1 <- UPS Battery Back up <- Satellite and TiVo
<- UPS Surge protector <- AV Receiver and DVD Player
Outlet #2 <- LCD TV


Any help you may be able to provide would be greatly appreciated!

[stevel]

How close is the TiVo box to the TV? I wonder if there's some sort of electromagnetic pulse that is bothering the TiVo. I can't recall hearing of a problem like this before, though.

What happens if you disconnect the cables from the TV? Or from the TiVo?

[DropIt]

Interesting thought... The TiVo sits underneath the satellite receiver . They are both underneath a piece of wood about 2 inches thick with the TV on top (it is on a stand about 3 inches on top of the wood.

I have a co-worker who had a similar issue, but his was solved by plugging the TV into a different outlet.

Thanks for your interest.

[litkaj]

When exactly does it reboot? Is it when you hit the power button, when the TV makes that "Click" sound, or when the picture actually shows up?

[DropIt]

It seems like it reboots a few seconds after the power comes on. To put it another way, I always see about 1 to 2 seconds of the program that is currently "live" on TiVo then I see the Gray "powering up" screen.

[stevel]

Try moving the TiVo box out from under the TV and see what happens.

[reggers]

Can this be a problem that just occurs? Mine started rebooting (powering up) every 10-15 minutes on Tuesday. The one odd thing is that the TV and Tivo have been in the exact same spot for the past 3 years....no new equipment, nothing has been moved...

hmmm....

[stevel]

Rebooting that occurs spontaneously is actually more common and is USUALLY due to hard disk problems, though not always. What was odd about DropIt's case was that it always happened when he turned on the new TV.

[DropIt]

Yeah it happens only on start up, I haven't moved the location but a co-worker (unfamiliar with TiVo) wondered if the TV starting up could somehow inform TiVo to reboot via an input (IR or the WLAN to USB interface I'm using).

The only reasoning he had for this was the fact that the reboot is not instantaneous, in other words the "powering up" screen does not appears for approximately 3 seconds after the TV shows a valid picture (i.e. live TV).

Thanks

[JimSpence]

I does seem that some electronic impulse from the TV is triggering a reboot in the TiVo. The easiest (?) way to verify this is to separate the TiVo and TV.

Could the TV turning on be causing a very momentary power interruption to the TiVo? Do any lights on the same circuit dim when the TV is turned on? Try powering the TV or TiVo from a separate AC circuit.

[reggers]

Rebooting that occurs spontaneously is actually more common and is USUALLY due to hard disk problems, though not always. What was odd about DropIt's case was that it always happened when he turned on the new TV.
How can one diagnose a hard disk issue? Also if it's the disk, and I replace the disk, would I still have my DVD-recording capability on the Pioneer DVD recording TiVo?

[stevel]

DropIt, there is no signal that goes from the TV to the TiVo. I'm with Jim on the EMP suggestion. But I have to admit the whole thing has me puzzled.

reggers, replacing the hard disk would not affect the features of your TiVo nor your TiVo service subscription. You would lose all the recorded shows and preferences, though.

Diagnosing a hard disk problem is tricky. You can try running the disk manufacturer's diagnostic with the disk connected to a PC. (Always boot from the diagnostic CD or floppy - never boot into Windows with a TiVo disk connected.) My experience is that this won't tell you anything.

[DropIt]

Yeah I'm still pretty confused. I went ahead and placed the TiVo on the bottom of my AV stack (now it's about two feet under the TV) and it the tivo is still rebooting, so I think the distance is not an issue. There is the possibility that cabling is carrying a signal though.

The only thing I can think of is the pull the TiVo out of the stack altogether and only connect the cables to the TV through the AV Receiver front Panel.

Just FYI the TV in general needs to be cold in order to have it reboot so I can't really perform multiple tests in a row, thus no solution yet.

Thanks for the input.

[gthassell]

Are all the devices on the same circuit? Could it be that the additional power required to cold start the new TV is more of a drain than the TiVo can handle?

You might want to try plugging the TiVo into a long extension cord connected to a different electical circuit.

Probably not the case, but a thought.

[dvr4me]

Although it certainly sounds electrical, from your first post I see that you've already ruled out a circuit overload by using another circuit. You're certain the secondary outlet you tested is on a completely different circuit in the breaker box?

Have you tried hooking the UPS to a long heavy gauge extension cable to another outlet so that all the components are getting power from another outlet? (To rule out a problem with the outlet itself. I have one outlet in my office that I need to inspect that has 2 UPS's connected to it. Occasionaly one of the UPS's will trip momentarily while the other doesn't trip. It's definitely an issue with the outlet and not an overload in the circuit.)

How is the Tivo hooked into the receiver? SVideo or composite? Since you mentioned using the connectors on the front of the receiver I'd guess composite.

I don't know a thing about the electrical connection properties of s-video or composite, but I'd have to wonder if there is some type of feedback from the TV's jacks through the receiver that is causing the reboot.

Here are some tests that you can try:
1. Hook up the UPS to another outlet to bypass the existing outlet they are plugged into. That way all of the power is being provided by a different physical outlet.
2. Eliminate the UPS entirely to rule out the UPS.
3. Hook up the video directly to the TV, bypassing the receiver.
4. Trying an alternate form of video hookup (if you're using s-video, try composite or vice-versa)
5. Try hooking up the video connection to another port on your TV (If I had to make a guess I'd guess you have a 46" Sharp Aquos (or maybe a 52, lucky you!) which should have 1 svideo connection and 3 composite connections. Of course along that line perhaps you are using HDMI from the receiver to the TV?

If nothing works, what's the model of the TV? Perhaps a google might reveal others that have had similiar experiences.

[Krenath]

I had similar symptoms. For me, it turned out to be electrical.

I have an APC UPS and both the TV and TiVo were plugged into backed-up outlets.

After moving the television plug to a suppresed-but-not-backed-up outlet, the problem went away.

I did not end up needing to move the television cord to a separate circuit once I took it off the backed-up outlet. Which is good because there aren't any separate circuits within reasonable reach of the television.

[bugaboo25]

Yeah I'm still pretty confused. I went ahead and placed the TiVo on the bottom of my AV stack (now it's about two feet under the TV) and it the tivo is still rebooting, so I think the distance is not an issue. There is the possibility that cabling is carrying a signal though.

The only thing I can think of is the pull the TiVo out of the stack altogether and only connect the cables to the TV through the AV Receiver front Panel.

Just FYI the TV in general needs to be cold in order to have it reboot so I can't really perform multiple tests in a row, thus no solution yet.

Thanks for the input.

I am so glad I am not the only one. Just got a Samsung LCD and my Tivo is reseting when I turn the TV on, only a few times a week ,and only seems to be when its cold. We just made Tivo wireless and thought that could be the issue. please keep everyone updated!

[DropIt]

I'll have plenty of instances this week to test out various theories. I'll be sure to makes updates on what I find.

[bugaboo25]

I have on theory I have been working on this week, we have noticed that Tivo does not reset itself if we turn the TV on without the remote. Could there be something with the LCD TV remote that is different from regular TV remotes? could the beam be close enough in code to trick tivo sometimes? I was wondering if you tried this if you would have the same results.

[DropIt]

Unforutnately the same is not true in my situation. I've been using the TV's power button on the TV itself, not the remote. Hope that's the reason in your case though.

[bugaboo25]

Well I spoke to soon, this morning it reset. I really don't understand this, I can turn everything on and off almost all day long and it fine, but in the morning or if its been off for a long time It resets. I don't get why it does not happen everytime, its starting to drive us nuts this morning it was recording. We are still trying different things, let you know!

[DropIt]

I feel that I have a very good understanding of the problem. It is my opinion that the problem is related to the proximity of the TiVo to the LCD TV and/or the LCD TV power cord.

Although I do not fully understand why, I think that the problem is related to some form of electromagnetic surge that is created when the LCD first powers on from a "cold" start. I do not feel that the problem is power circuit related as my testing has eliminated this.

My first step to correcting the problem was to place the TiVo approximately 36 inches below the lowest point of the TV. However this did not correct the problem. the second step was to move my TiVo out of my shelving unit and rest the front of it on the floor, with all AV cables connected it will not reboot. This moves the TiVo approximately 12-15 inches away from the power cable of the TV and center of the TV on the horizontal axis, while maintaining a 36 inch distance on the vertical axis.

If I move the TiVo in this manner it does not reboot when the TV is powered up, if I do not it reboots.

Because the problem occurs more consistently when the TV is "cold" it may take a long time to figure out if the problem is associated with the TiVo's proximity to the TV, the TV's power cable, or both. I thought in the meantime I would post my findings in case anyone else was having similar issues.

Enjoy!

[bugaboo25]

Thank you for your hard work in trying to figure this out, I know it seems weird but something out of our reach is making this happen, we will be moving out TIVO this weekend and will report back after a few days.

[jrmjr67]

Hey Dropit

EXACT same problem here! Been looking for others out there with same issue on AVS forums. I just got a new Sharp 46" LCD and TiVo restarts every time the TV is turned on (OR plugged into outlet)

Room is on one circuit but I have tried 2 different outlets (both on surge suppressors) and has not solved my issue.

I would have thought that if I was overloading circuit that the breaker would trip.
My A/V components only add up to approx 825 watts (old JVC 32" CRT was 125 W - new Sharp LCD 256 W).

I was about to go get a UPS/AVR for just the Tivo but based on your suggestion I will try moving the Tivo as it is the first component that sits under the TV on the TV stand

[DropIt]

Cool, I wasn't the only one in the world.

Yeah try moving it and the power cable away from the TV. and see what happens. I'd be interested in hearing if what worked for me helps you out too!

[stevel]

Both of you with Sharp LCD sets. Hmmm....

[rach1831]

My Tivo is doing the same thing. We just got a Samsung HD DLP tv and DIRECTV. Ever since we added the new stuff the Tivo reboots every 10-15 minutes. I don't know if this is anything like you what guys are experiencing or not. I was afraid it was a hard drive problem but we haven't had any problems until we moved everything around. It started out rebooting once a day or so and is now rebooting several times a day. We have a HUMAX DRT 800. I don't really have any insight into the problem I was just looking for some pointers.

[jrmjr67]

OK - some new info to share:

NOT a power issue - testing with a new power console and a separate UPS for Tivo confirms it

Bugaboo25 you are on the right track - this is an IR thing

I have finally found on other web sites many people having issues with the Sharp Aquos LCD sets - for most people it manifests itself in the cable box IR receiver

Apparently the bulb used for the Sharp's backlight gives off a ton of IR!

Many folks have the problems go away by adjusting the backlight (some turn it up, some down) or turning off OPC / Dynamic picture

Even with my Tivo way down underneath the TV stand it must be picking up the initial flash when the picture comes on. The ensuing IR pulse must be triggering the "restart tivo" command. This makes sense because my TiVo restarts not right when I hit the TV power button but when the picture appears. I put some scotch tape on the TiVo IR area and turned the TV off then on and the TiVo stayed on (however this morning on a "cold boot" of the TV the clear tape didn't help)

My next experiment will be to cover the TiVo completely while turning the TV on

[stevel]

Except there is no "restart TiVo command". I can sort-of believe that the flood of IR overwhelms the TiVo software that is trying to interpret the data.

[jrmjr67]

Diagnosis confirmed!

I put black electrical tape over the entire IR/display light area on the TiVo, then
three "cold" boots on the Sharp (1 each morning) - The TiVo remians ON and running (I keep my receiver on and can hear the audio of the current TiVo station)

Woo-hoo!

Steve, I would have to disagree that there is no "restart command" on the TiVo:

TiVo Central -> Messages & Settings->Restart or Reset System->Restart (press thumbs down 3x, then ENTER)


Long term I dont know what I will do to solve this but short term I am just gonna keep the tape on the TiVo and pull it off every time.

-Joe

[stevel]

What I meant was that there is no remote code for "restart". Yes, you can do this through the menus. I think the TV is sending a whole bunch of IR pulses that the TiVo is dying while trying to make sense of.

[jrmjr67]

Yes I will agree with you on that Steve

I just wish could I could figure out a more elegent fix (short of spending $100 on buying a RF remote adapter from Weaknees)

Regards,
Joe

[bugaboo25]

I checked this thread after finding no help with it being a power issue. after trying the new theory, its right on. We cover up Tivo every time we turn the TV on and it has not happened for the 2 weeks we have been doing it! Its a pain to remember to do but its better then waiting for Tivo to boot up. I hope there will be some sort of other fix in the future now that Tivo and the TV makers are aware of this issue. We were going to upgrade to the Tivo HD and transfer our lifetime to see if that would permanently fix the problem, but It does not work with satellite and I don't feel like being raped by Comcast. Thank you for all the work in figuring this out!:)