TiVo’s Next Price Move

[HDTiVo]

TiVo’s Next Price Move (http://hdtivo.wordpress.com/2007/06/20/tivos-next-price-move/)
June 20th, 2007 by HDTiVo

The rebate on the Series 2 is ending 6/30 and the S3 is back to $799 - rebate gone. Time to start thinking about what TiVo may do in July.

Certainly they are selling very few S3s at $799. However, retailers have them around $599 and refurbs are $499 through TiVo’s Web Specials.

The S2DT is up to $199/$99.

TiVo intimated there would be further reductions in hardware subsidies coming. They certainly can’t raise the S3 price, can they?????

How do you go above $199/99 for the DT?

What could possibly be next?

[GoHokies!]

Tivo has also said that there are NO subsidies on the S3, so that price isn't going anywhere. They obviously moved the number of S3's they wanted to with the rebate since they didn't extend it.

I would extimate the further reductions in hardware subsidies is to prepare folks for no subsidies driving a higher than expected price on the new S3-lite.

[[NG]Owner]

Personally, Tivo's next Series 3 price move is not as important to me as Tivo's next Series 3 functionality move.

There are many here, judging by the threads I've been following and have seen, that are waiting for the Series 3 to add MRV before taking the plunge. As much as I wanted to pull the trigger at $400 A/R, the lack of any MRV capability ultimately prevailed. I do privately wonder though, even with the benefit of a 100 Mb/s switched wired network, if the Series 3 will be able to pump out HD MRV fast enough to handle real time HD viewing like the Series 2 units do today with SD programs.

On another note, TiVo also has to be cognizant of the SDV situation as well. The value and usability of the current Series 3 (without a Tivo statement regarding the Series 3's future compatibility with SDV) decreases with each passing day as the major CableCos are readying SDV rollouts. The day is rapidly approaching that, without some concrete assurance from Tivo that the current Series 3 can be retrofitted to handle SDV, even with the addition of MRV, the acquisition of Series 3 units will no longer make sense for me.

[NG]Owner

[ZeoTiVo]

agreed. Price is just one fact - my price point is below 500$ for an S3 but without MRV and TTG I would rather stick with S2. Right now, those wanting HD are willing to scoop up an S3 - once MRV and TTG hit then it will be a different ball game.

[LoadStar]

Owner']On another note, TiVo also has to be cognizant of the SDV situation as well. The value and usability of the current Series 3 (without a Tivo statement regarding the Series 3's future compatibility with SDV) decreases with each passing day as the major CableCos are readying SDV rollouts. The day is rapidly approaching that, without some concrete assurance from Tivo that the current Series 3 can be retrofitted to handle SDV, even with the addition of MRV, the acquisition of Series 3 units will no longer make sense for me.

[NG]Owner
That is, in fact, the reason I have NOT purchased a S3 yet. This last rebate offer was probably enough to make me interested... but being in a Time Warner area that is already using SDV for ESPN2HD, that likely means that additional channels will be SDV in the imminent future. I'm not spending that kind of money on a box that essentially has an expiration date stamped on it.

[classicX]

At $400, I probably would've bought two S3's if they had MRV. Still no dice, so I switched to satellite.

[HDTiVo]

It is amazing how dependent people's purchase decisions are on MRV and TTG, mine included. I bought the first MRV-free, but the next ones are going to require a deep discount. Even allowing for the skew of the TiVo-pro's here.

I still have no idea what to think they might do pricing/rebate wise in July.

[JJ]

Pricing and rebates
will cause those who currently 'on the fence' to 'pull the trigger'. With Series3 potential SDV compatibility issues and still implementation or not of MRV/TTG, price alone is not the only factor right now.

There may be an even larger number of potential purchasers than he rebates brought out. I'm thinking that there are many 'spectators' (like myself) looking for a crystal clear, absolutely no doubt about it, unmistakable plain language, signal from TiVo.

Hints and innuendo are not going to cut it, I can't tell when the third base coach gives the 'steal' sign either. Getting Mr. Wallet out of hiding and in a mood to break out the American Express card for a Series3 (or something even newer) is going to take nothing less than statements of fact from TiVo, Inc.

When it comes to TiVo mixed signals have always been common. In the past I had more confidence in the foresight and innovation of TiVo, Inc. than I do today. Its not that I question TiVo, Inc's ability to innovate, but I question thier ability to deliver in the current 'Content Owner Controlled' environment.

As an early adopter Series1, DirecTiVo Series1, DirecTiVo Series2, and HD DirecTiVo owner the thought of not having a TiVo seemed impossible, until lately...

[Lenonn]

Owner']Personally, Tivo's next Series 3 price move is not as important to me as Tivo's next Series 3 functionality move.

There are many here, judging by the threads I've been following and have seen, that are waiting for the Series 3 to add MRV before taking the plunge. As much as I wanted to pull the trigger at $400 A/R, the lack of any MRV capability ultimately prevailed. I do privately wonder though, even with the benefit of a 100 Mb/s switched wired network, if the Series 3 will be able to pump out HD MRV fast enough to handle real time HD viewing like the Series 2 units do today with SD programs.

On another note, TiVo also has to be cognizant of the SDV situation as well. The value and usability of the current Series 3 (without a Tivo statement regarding the Series 3's future compatibility with SDV) decreases with each passing day as the major CableCos are readying SDV rollouts. The day is rapidly approaching that, without some concrete assurance from Tivo that the current Series 3 can be retrofitted to handle SDV, even with the addition of MRV, the acquisition of Series 3 units will no longer make sense for me.

[NG]Owner

Well said. Exactly the reasons I haven't taken the plunge on this one.

[samo]

The rebate on the Series 2 is ending 6/30 and the S3 is back to $799 - rebate gone. Time to start thinking about what TiVo may do in July.
They will offer another rebate. Here is a new Series 2 TiVo Rebate for July (http://www.trocsa.com/TiVo_Rebate.pdf). I wouldn't be surprised if S3 will be extended as well.

[Phantom Gremlin]

Who wants to deal with rebates? All they mean is that TiVo will try to cheat you out of your money. There was a thread around here that said that half of the people didn't redeem their TiVo $100 rebate. After reading some horror stories about rejections and about how long it takes I think many people just get disgusted and give up. That doesn't seem like a smart way for TiVo to build customer goodwill.

I like the Best Buy philosophy. They said they would get away from rebates and maybe they have. For example Babylon 5 was onsale recently for $20 per season. So I bought the two seasons I didn't have. If the deal was pay $40 and get a $20 rebate then no way in h*** would I have given them a nickel.

[HDTiVo]

Who wants to deal with rebates? All they mean is that TiVo will try to cheat you out of your money.
Because maybe you'll get lucky? :D

[mattack]

Who wants to deal with rebates?

Would I prefer a world without rebates, *if the prices were the same as with rebates*? Yes. But since that isn't likely to happen, I'm happy with rebates.

The only rebate I can think of that I didn't get was due to my own sloppiness -- a rebate on a hard drive, that I actually sent in a day late. (In retrospect, I wouldn't even try to send it in late since that's cheating.)

Some times I've gotten things totally free (or at least the cost of a stamp). Both Coke & Pepsi had rebate deals last year where I got 4 12 packs free. So actually, since I got cash back on my credit card, it was less than the price of a stamp.

I guess I sort of got a 'rebate' on my S3, since the lifetime transfer deal ends up saving me money after less than 4 years, and adds resale value to the S3 if I ever wanted to sell it.

[dolfer]

I'm sure I'll get flamed but...

I think the S3 is very similar to the Playstation 3. Arrogantly overpriced and poorly conceived.

I knew the use of CableCARDs was a bad idea from the beginning and now it looks like I am right.

It has been said a million times but it's true. Tivo needs to get out of the hardware business and get deals in place with all major providers of TV service. Obviously the quickest way this can happen is if Tivo can win its patent case. If it does, I am sure Direc, Dish, Time Warner and the rest will be lining up...

[MickeS]

I knew the use of CableCARDs was a bad idea from the beginning and now it looks like I am right.
Do tell, what alternative would you have considered for a dual-tuner stand-alone HD recorder?

[Stanley Rohner]

I knew the use of CableCARDs was a bad idea from the beginning and now it looks like I am right.



So how does it look like you are right ?
:confused:

[dolfer]

Do tell, what alternative would you have considered for a dual-tuner stand-alone HD recorder?

I wouldn't have made it a dual tuner... I would have made the first model as inexpensive as possible to gain traction and get some market share. It's the same debate as to whether or not Sony should have bundled in Blu-ray with the PS3.

[dolfer]

So how does it look like you are right ?
:confused:

SDV

[GoHokies!]

Because a single tuner model that couldn't tune any encryped channels would be a real WINNER!

I think that it's your opinion that is arrogantly overstated and poorly conceived.

It's the best solution available to a difficult problem.

How do you suppose that Tivo continue to make money while they wait for the E* case to wrap up and get deals in place?

[c3]

I'm sure I'll get flamed but...

You're asking for it. So you believe TiVo should have come out with a single-tuner HD unit without CableCard? Maybe you should go into that business and see how many units you can sell. In the meantime, I'll enjoy using my S3s.

[dolfer]

Am I missing something? If so, I apologize in advance for my ignorance on the topic. But is it not possible to have a stand-alone HD-DVR hooked up to a digital cable box and still record encrypted channels like HBO in HD?

Do you have to have a CableCARD no matter what? Or do you need the CableCARD only if you want an uncluttered "one box" solution???

If a CableCARD interface is not mandatory, then I hold firm and believe Tivo would have been better served coming out with an inexpensive, single tuner HD model. Tivo could have come out with a more advanced dual tuner model later...

If CableCARD (or equivalent) is now mandatory for HD-DVRs, then retract everything I said, I am a moron...

[GoHokies!]

The technology to take an HD input from a cable box and save it on the fly is prohibitedly expensive.

Plus, since every cable company DVR around is dual tuner a single tuner solution is unacceptable.

[larrs]

Am I missing something? If so, I apologize in advance for my ignorance on the topic. But is it not possible to have a stand-alone HD-DVR hooked up to a digital cable box and still record encrypted channels like HBO in HD?

Do you have to have a CableCARD no matter what? Or do you need the CableCARD only if you want an uncluttered "one box" solution???

If a CableCARD interface is not mandatory, then I hold firm and believe Tivo would have been better served coming out with an inexpensive, single tuner HD model. Tivo could have come out with a more advanced dual tuner model later...

If CableCARD (or equivalent) is now mandatory for HD-DVRs, then retract everything I said, I am a moron...

I am certainly no expert, but it can be done. In fact, a firewire connection from an HD cable box to a D-VHS VCR does this and many people are doing so over at AVS Forums. If it can be done with firewire, it could certainly be done with an HDMI input. Why they do not, I am not sure. However, that being said, it would still only be a single tuner solution which is somehting that makes the dual tuner cable company box trounce it in the market. Theoretically, it could be done with an HDMI input for one tuner and an HD OTA/ATSC tuner for the second, but we're back to a "messy" solution.

Had cable cards not been forced by the FCC, I am quite sure Tivo would most likely be as dead as ReplayTV right now in the stand alone box business (though maybe not in the software business (Cox, Comcast, etc.).

[c3]

The firewire connection gives you the MPEG2 stream, but the interface needs to support "5C" for encrypted copy-protected content. I'm not really familiar with it, so maybe others can comment on if it really works or not.

Recording from HDMI is technically not feasible because the video is uncompressed.

[Justin Thyme]

The firewire connection gives you the MPEG2 stream, but the interface needs to support "5C" for encrypted copy-protected content. I'm not really familiar with it, so maybe others can comment on if it really works or not. 5C is the common name for DTCP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTCP) and is an encrypted transport protocol, but it doesn't specify the encryption of the data after it exits the pipe. The whole reason for being is that it is neutral on the native encryption formats. Example- you could have a Helix encrypted video on the source device, then on the wire it would be both DTCP and Helix, then when it arrives at the sink device it is back to Helix only encryption. The idea about it is that the CE manufacturer doesn't have to go nuts about having to support a whole slew of decryption schemes in each of their CE devices. A source device can send clear MPEG2, and DTCP takes care of the on wire security- it is then up to the device to encrypt (if necessary) using whatever native algorithm it wishes to support. Much simplified firmware, and no dependencies on software companies that own the patents on encryption schemes (Microsoft, Apple, Realnetworks).

Firewire DTCP use never caught on- it is supported by some devices like Samsung's HD-VHS player that came out 2 years ago (don't see any more of those at compusa), so if you had one, you could theoretically record HD from your cablebox using it- that is, if the flags on the content allowed it.

BTW- DTCP is not linked to firewire, and has flavours for going on USB, IP, and a bunch of other connections. It is the same protocol that is provisionally approved by Cablelabs for exporting content on a local net from a cablecard device. (Same semantics- Sink devices must authenticate themselves, Source devices must not send to non compliant or revoked devices, all devices must respect copy and expiration flags etc etc.)

[m_jonis]

agreed. Price is just one fact - my price point is below 500$ for an S3 but without MRV and TTG I would rather stick with S2. Right now, those wanting HD are willing to scoop up an S3 - once MRV and TTG hit then it will be a different ball game.

I agree with Zeo (my same sentiments and situation apply). I'm not spending $500 on an S3 with no MRV and no TTG (plus I live in lovely TW country with SDV).

Instead, I think I'll spend $400 on a box and slap MythTV (or SageTV) on it and get QAM HD with "MRV" and "TTTG" (similar features).

When/if Tivo comes out with an S3 that either has the features or price is so low, I'll just reformat the hard drive on my Myth/Sage box and use it as a regular computer.

[Stanley Rohner]

I wouldn't have made it a dual tuner... I would have made the first model as inexpensive as possible to gain traction and get some market share. It's the same debate as to whether or not Sony should have bundled in Blu-ray with the PS3.

I guess they made it dual tuner to be competitive with the pre-existing cable TV dual tuner HD DVRs and the DIRECTV non-TiVo Dual tuner HD DVR.

[MickeS]

I agree with Zeo (my same sentiments and situation apply). I'm not spending $500 on an S3 with no MRV and no TTG (plus I live in lovely TW country with SDV).

Instead, I think I'll spend $400 on a box and slap MythTV (or SageTV) on it and get QAM HD with "MRV" and "TTTG" (similar features).

When/if Tivo comes out with an S3 that either has the features or price is so low, I'll just reformat the hard drive on my Myth/Sage box and use it as a regular computer.
$400 for dual tuner HD with 250GB HD? What parts are you planning on using? I've been looking at HD tuner cards, but haven't found anything under $100 (and that was with single tuner). Although that networked tuner thingie looked interesting... HD Homerun, I think it was like $150.

[c3]

plus I live in lovely TW country with SDV

SDV affects all one-way devices, so MythTV/SageTV wouldn't work, either.

[JJ]

$400 for dual tuner HD with 250GB HD? What parts are you planning on using? I've been looking at HD tuner cards, but haven't found anything under $100 (and that was with single tuner). Although that networked tuner thingie looked interesting... HD Homerun, I think it was like $150.

Myth/Sage
will probably run on almost anything collecting dust in your garage. ATSC single tuner cards can be had in OTA flavours for around $60 most days on the auction site we all know.

Getting QAM compliant hardware is probably only a short term solution. Long term the SDV reality will mean that your choices will probably be limited to what cable companies will rent/sell and not necessarily what you realy wanted. Unless you are planning to go OTA it is hard to suggest an already burning fuse with QAM.

Most cards are Vista compliant but check drivers and choose carefully. If there is not a driver now for Vista, it means the card/device has been left behind. My DVIco Fusion2 is excellent in MCE2005 but I don't ever expect it to get Vista support, just another piece of dead end hardware for the archives someday...

[wolflord11]

I'm sure I'll get flamed but...

I think the S3 is very similar to the Playstation 3. Arrogantly overpriced and poorly conceived.

I must say I do agree.

Tivo had a Winner with the Series 2 DT, then seemed to throw it all away with the Series 3.

[MickeS]

Myth/Sage
will probably run on almost anything collecting dust in your garage.

Well, that wasn't my question. I have no other computer parts laying around, so I'd need to build from scratch. I did find one tuner card on ebay for $60, the others will probably cost a little more.

[MickeS]

I must say I do agree.

Tivo had a Winner with the Series 2 DT, then seemed to throw it all away with the Series 3.

Really? The Series 3 is the best TiVo I've used at least - then again, I only use basic cable and OTA HD.

[Stanley Rohner]

Am I missing something? If so, I apologize in advance for my ignorance on the topic.

Apology accepted. :)

[c3]

Tivo had a Winner with the Series 2 DT, then seemed to throw it all away with the Series 3.

You sure have a lot of opinions about something you don't own. Have you used a S3? Do you even have any HD equipment?

[Lensman]

I'm sure I'll get flamed but...
I hope not, you're very forthcoming in your opinions but shouldn't get flamed for it.

I think the S3 is very similar to the Playstation 3. Arrogantly overpriced and poorly conceived.
I've been thinking about getting a PS3 just because it's the cheapest BluRay player in the market. It's like getting a game console for free. :)

Though we can definitely debate the wisdom of putting the darned $600 BluRay drive in there in the first place!

BTW, I must admit to liking my S3. I think it is the finest piece of home theater equipment I've owned since my old Shure surround sound decoder - actually, it reminds me more of the old Lexicon decoder.

I knew the use of CableCARDs was a bad idea from the beginning and now it looks like I am right.
It's unfortunate that the consumer electronics industry and Microsoft spent billions to support CableCards when all they had to do was listen to you and saved their money. :) Oops.

It has been said a million times but it's true. Tivo needs to get out of the hardware business and get deals in place with all major providers of TV service.
This obvious road to success is lined with evil, greedy, monopolists. What can Tivo do to get these deals in place other than sign agreements that result in them doing all the work and getting paid nothing?

Obviously the quickest way this can happen is if Tivo can win its patent case. If it does, I am sure Direc, Dish, Time Warner and the rest will be lining up...
I'm not sure what Tivo can do to speed up the court system. Anyone have any ideas?

[GoHokies!]

I must say I do agree.

Tivo had a Winner with the Series 2 DT, then seemed to throw it all away with the Series 3.
Have you ever even used an S3, since you don't own one? :rolleyes:

Let see here - going from a dual tuner box that does SD only to a dual tuner box that does HD. Yep, that's definitely a dumb move.

[Adam1115]

agreed. Price is just one fact - my price point is below 500$ for an S3 but without MRV and TTG I would rather stick with S2. Right now, those wanting HD are willing to scoop up an S3 - once MRV and TTG hit then it will be a different ball game.

The TiVo Series 3 has been able to be had for between $499-$599 before rebate for quite some time.

Maybe I'm missing something...

[MickeS]

The TiVo Series 3 has been able to be had for between $499-$599 before rebate for quite some time.

Maybe I'm missing something...
Yeah, it doesn't have MRV and TTG.

[dolfer]

Thanks for the technology lesson and for not skewering me too badly ;)

Are the cable companies mandated by law to support the CableCARD interface for the foreseeable future or can they replace it with the newer SDV and potentially make it impossible (or very difficult) to use an S3? As it stands, I am under the impression no one knows for sure if the S3 can be updated to work with SDV.

[HDTiVo]

One helpful little change (http://hdtivo.wordpress.com/2007/06/20/tivos-next-price-move/#comments) I'd like to see TiVo make.

[kido]

cable companies can implement sdv if they so choose; however, the FCC has said in no uncertain terms that they want to see competition in the cable STB market. their analogy was the phone company, which used to force everyone to rent phones, but once the FCC required access to 3rd party phone makers, consumers saw an explosion of features and reduced costs due to competition. they expect the same for the STB market. if the cable companies add technology which hinders this competition, the FCC will most likely act.

[wolflord11]

Really? The Series 3 is the best TiVo I've used at least - then again, I only use basic cable and OTA HD.

Well, Tivo has thrown away half their Customers... those with Sat. And you have also lost Home Networking, which is very important to me :D

[wolflord11]

Have you ever even used an S3, since you don't own one? :rolleyes:

Let see here - going from a dual tuner box that does SD only to a dual tuner box that does HD. Yep, that's definitely a dumb move.

Tell me Master, for I am a fool. Perhaps I should get rid of my Sat TV, and Pay double for the package I have just to be able to get a S3. :D Now thats a good idea is it not?

But to answer you, yes I have used a Series 3. My in laws own one. They also own a Series 2 DT. Yes, they like the S3, but they also like the S2 for the features that the 3 does not have.

[wolflord11]

You sure have a lot of opinions about something you don't own. Have you used a S3? Do you even have any HD equipment?

No I do not own a Series 3. The cost of the unit does not justify it. I could as already stated do away with Sat, and pay Double for the package just to be able to upgrade tho :D

Yes I have used a S3.

As for HD equipment:

RCA 50" HDTV (http://tv.rca.com/en-US/ModelDetail.html?MN=M50WH74S&nav=BySize&PC=BySizeLarge) My TV in the lounge. Unfortunatley I do not use the Cable Tuner but its a nice feature.

HD DVD Player (http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/dvd/product.asp?model=hd-a20) My DVD Player in the lounge. Goes very well with my TV.

I also own a Directv H20 HD Receiver.

So Sir, before you make a comment about what HD equipment someone owns, perhaps you should think about asking the question. :D

[c3]

So Sir, before you make a comment about what HD equipment someone owns, perhaps you should think about asking the question. :D

That's exactly what I did, asking if you have any HD equipment, since you like the S2DT so much. All of the units in your signature seem to be SD.

[GoHokies!]

Well, Tivo has thrown away half their Customers... those with Sat. And you have also lost Home Networking, which is very important to me :DTivo didn't have much of a choice in the matter, since DirecTV kicked them out and E* just stole Tivo's design and took it for their own.

All I'm saying is that you're doing an awful lot of trash talking while playing fast and loose with the actual facts. The reason you're getting half price HD from DirecTV is you're only getting half the HD.

[atmuscarella]

TiVo is in a catch 22 - they need a broader product line to increase volume - but in order to have a broader product line they need more volume.

Also when people say they have abandoned Satellite if what they mean is TiVo isn't building products that would work better with satellite than the current Series 2 DT then they are 100% correct. Examples:


They could have released a Series 3 without cable cards that could control an STB - This would have given satellite people the choice to do HD OTA with SD satellite plus it would have allowed MRV and TTG so the box would have also had OTA only and OTA & analog cable supporters
The Series 2 DT could have an add on USB device that allows the units to control both tuners in Dishnetworks dual tuner STB making the DT function as a full dual tuner DVR.


So what should TiVos hardware line-up look like? Try this:

Series 2 DT (as is)
Series 2 DT + OTA SD digital/analog tuners
Series 2 DT + OTA digital/analog tuners + DVD buner
Series 3 (as is)
Series 3 - cable cards + STB control
Series 3 - cable cards + STB control + DVD buner with unscaling or HD and/or Blu Ray player with DVD burner
Series 3 + DVD buner with unscaling or HD and/or Blu Ray player with DVD burner


Of course because of TiVo's low sales volume most of the above isn't possible.

Thanks,

[jlb]

Really? The Series 3 is the best TiVo I've used at least - then again, I only use basic cable and OTA HD.

Just out of curiosity, what antenna are you using? How far are you from the broadcast towers for your local HD stations?

[bitchysix]

Bottom line: No Satellite hookup, No MRV = less S3 customers.

Why should he be flamed for saying this, I for one, totally agree.

As soon as you can use an S3 with satellite I will take the plunge.

And I agree with the PS3 analogy, blue-ray was a foolish move. This is exactly why Nintendo has reclaimed the market. Their machine doesn't even play dvd's. So smart.

[MickeS]

Just out of curiosity, what antenna are you using? How far are you from the broadcast towers for your local HD stations?

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5258213&&#post5258213

:)

[c3]

Bottom line: No Satellite hookup, No MRV = less S3 customers.

Why should he be flamed for saying this, I for one, totally agree.

As soon as you can use an S3 with satellite I will take the plunge.

And I agree with the PS3 analogy, blue-ray was a foolish move. This is exactly why Nintendo has reclaimed the market. Their machine doesn't even play dvd's. So smart.

Since you seem to be so smart, please enlighten us how you would record HD from satellite.

[HDTiVo]

Here's one move:

http://hdtivo.wordpress.com/2007/06/28/free-tivoes-free-service/

[c3]

If you have something to say, say it here. This is not an advertisement section for your blog.

[atmuscarella]

Originally Posted by c3
Since you seem to be so smart, please enlighten us how you would record HD from satellite.
For a Series 3 to be useful for Satellite user it wouldn't have to record HD from the satellite STB just SD. Many people would find OTA HD + satellite SD to be a good fit and even more so if the unit didn't have cable cards so MRV and TTG could work.

If a Series 3 - cable cards + STB control had been available I would have already purchased one and I don't even own a HD TV.

Thanks,

[bitchysix]

C3:

Not my problem, I'm simply THE CONSUMER who has a need/ demand. It's up to TIVO to fill my need or else they don't make any money from me. The technological restrictions that surround satellite and HD are hardly OUR problem. We're just the ones shelling out the dough, on a monthly basis, you'll have to forgive us if we have a few things to say about the product/subscription that we're PAYING for.

[SugarBowl]

I must say I do agree.

Tivo had a Winner with the Series 2 DT, then seemed to throw it all away with the Series 3.


The series 3 was $384 during the rebate period. That's not a bad price. Of course, it was a bad time for the rebate to end for all the dads who THOUGHT they were getting an S3, and then didn't..



I've never experienced MRV, never had more than 1 tivo.. Sounds like it's a real killer feature. Can't wait to see it someday..

[bitchysix]

MRV is one of the main reasons I joined the tivo club, highly recommended, it's an incredible feature.

[MickeS]

For a Series 3 to be useful for Satellite user it wouldn't have to record HD from the satellite STB just SD. Many people would find OTA HD + satellite SD to be a good fit and even more so if the unit didn't have cable cards so MRV and TTG could work.

If a Series 3 - cable cards + STB control had been available I would have already purchased one and I don't even own a HD TV.

Thanks,

I'm glad you're not in charge of anything at TiVo if you think a HD box that could ONLY do OTA HD would sell. If you threw in a way for mapping clear QAM then maybe...

[c3]

If I have HD equipment and subscribe to satellite service, I would certainly want to have a HD DVR. Buying S3 to record SD from satellite doesn't make sense.

[atmuscarella]

If I have HD equipment and subscribe to satellite service, I would certainly want to have a HD DVR. Buying S3 to record SD from satellite doesn't make sense.You do understand that most people can not get HD locals (the networks were most new HD content is) from satellite right? and that most of the satellite standard packages contain no HD content?

I'm glad you're not in charge of anything at TiVo if you think a HD box that could ONLY do OTA HD would sell. If you threw in a way for mapping clear QAM then maybe...You have noticed that there are more than a few people posting on these boards that only do HD OTA with there S3s (or HD OTA and analog cable) and that anyone who is using a PC/media center is only doing HD OTA - guess the fact that more than a few companies are selling the HD PCI cards means no one is buying them.

Why do people assume that just because there not in the market for something means no one else is?

Thanks,

[GoHokies!]

C3:

Not my problem, I'm simply THE CONSUMER who has a need/ demand. It's up to TIVO to fill my need or else they don't make any money from me. The technological restrictions that surround satellite and HD are hardly OUR problem. We're just the ones shelling out the dough, on a monthly basis, you'll have to forgive us if we have a few things to say about the product/subscription that we're PAYING for.Sorry, the rest of us life in a world where we have to deal with reality. If you want Tivo for your sat so bad, you're looking the wrong way, look at the satellite companies that refuse to do business with Tivo or at the FCC. If it wasn't for the FCC's cablecard mandate, Tivo wouldn't be able to produce the S3 for cable either. Getting the cablecard mandate (or some other competition forcing scheme) extended to satellite would allow Tivo back in that arena.

[HDTiVo]

Lifetime transfers return.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=357183

http://hdtivo.wordpress.com/2007/06/29/another-tivo-no-sale/