The Difference Between Truth And Fiction

[Brian Tierney]

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TRUTH AND FICTION

Be careful what you listen to on this forum. Here is why.

I believe all of the following statements are true.

1) One DVR supplier has been sued by Tivo. That is the Dish Network.

2) A federal court ordered the Dish Network to stop selling their DVR because of infringement on the Tivo patents and to pay Tivo 90 million dollars.

3) A second Judge granted a stay while the Dish Network is in the appeals process.

4) Every DVR provider is watching with great interest. Nobody wants to lose their ability to attract customers by not being allowed to provide their own DVR and having to pay up for their own infringements.

5) All of the above means that there are forces at work here, trying to damage the Tivo reputation. Tivo community is a natural target for people with dishonest intentions, trying to make the Tivo product sound bad for their own personal gain. Is there any other forum devoted to Tivo? I think not. Be careful.

[MickeS]

Huh?

[ZeoTiVo]

There are other TiVo forums but they tend to be more close knit and not as open to abuse as here. I think the fact that TiVo employees post here makes it a target as well. I have been involved with some others in a back and forth with a troll that has so far taken on 5 userids in just this month. The sole thrust of all the user(s) posts is that TiVo is bad and doomed. So yes that is indeed happening here on this forum.

[richsadams]

There are other TiVo forums but they tend to be more close knit and not as open to abuse as here. I think the fact that TiVo employees post here makes it a target as well. I have been involved with some others in a back and forth with a troll that has so far taken on 5 userids in just this month. The sole thrust of all the user(s) posts is that TiVo is bad and doomed. So yes that is indeed happening here on this forum. Make that six...just found another one. Sigh. :rolleyes:

[Brian Tierney]

Huh?

What did you not understand?

[Brian Tierney]

<<There are other TiVo forums>>

Could you post their names?

[ZeoTiVo]

Make that six...just found another one. Sigh. :rolleyes:
I thought I was counting that one.


two good places for TiVo info

www.tivolovers.com
a forum you can join but the posting is not as wide ranging as here. Of course that means it stays closer to reality ;)

www.zatznotfunny.com
a good site for things TiVo and related media type stuff. Not a foum but you can leave comments.

[Redux]

that is indeed happening here on this forum.I'm not disagreeing, but I doubt we're badly infested.

Years ago one could actually make money by posting, shilling or crapping to adance his client's position. But the smart players learned pretty quickly that it has absolutely zero effect (some supposed examples to the contrary I always felt had other causes), and I suspect it's hard to find the big money suckers to pay for posting any more.

I'd say at worst we have a few amateurs.

[MickeS]

What did you not understand?
The point you were trying to make.

[ZeoTiVo]

I'm not disagreeing, but I doubt we're badly infested.I'd say at worst we have a few amateurs.
True. I said we have trolls and pointed one out. Infestation is a whole nother level. The really bad ones stand out and pose little actual misinformation since , but lately the just seem to keep cropping up each month.it is obviously just silly.
Of course the really good ones do not get caught by definition and would blend into the diverse crowd of posters we have here.....

[Brian Tierney]

The point you were trying to make.

The point is that the Dish Network lawsuit changed the game. Now the imitators will stop at nothing to tarnish the Tivo brand name.

I find many posts on this forum to be unbelievable. Seven years and three Tivos have proven to me that Tivo is a high quality product.

[moyekj]

Don't drink too much cool aid though... there are plenty of features from other DVRs I have used in the past that Tivo doesn't have and even some cable co. DVR good features that Tivo lacks. No I'm not a troll and I own 2 S3 DVRs - just saying there is plenty of room for improvement for all DVRs out there, Tivo included. We don't need them resting on their laurels thinking good is good enough.

[ZeoTiVo]

just saying there is plenty of room for improvement for all DVRs out there, Tivo included. We don't need them resting on their laurels thinking good is good enough.Well said :up:

[sfhub]

My S3s do the basic PVR thing pretty nicely. They record reliably and I can expand them to a useful # of HD hours. Surprisingly few HD PVRs out there satisfy these basic requirements.

However there are issues. Lack of SDV and MRV aren't created by trolls, they are created by lack of SDV and MRV. There are various rumors TiVo could squash if they felt like doing so, but they haven't. That leads to rumors taking on a life of their own.

Let's not mistake genuine criticism with trolling. Honestly I don't read all the threads here and stick mainly to specific problem-solving S3 threads, but haven't noticed that much trolling in the threads I follow.

[ZeoTiVo]

. Honestly I don't read all the threads here and stick mainly to specific problem-solving S3 threads, but haven't noticed that much trolling in the threads I follow.
Trolls are typically not 'problem solvers" :p

[hdhdliving]

The point you were trying to make.

+1

[snathanb]

I think I'll put my tin foil hat on and check for the black helicopters now.

[HDTiVo]

The point is that the Dish Network lawsuit changed the game. Now the imitators will stop at nothing to tarnish the Tivo brand name.

I find many posts on this forum to be unbelievable. Seven years and three Tivos have proven to me that Tivo is a high quality product.

Then I need to greatly increase the time I spend in this Forum because I have not come across much of anything trying to put TiVo down dishonestly, although I have observed a modest increase in the opposite.

[bidger]

However there are issues. Lack of SDV and MRV aren't created by trolls, they are created by lack of SDV and MRV.

:confused:

"Lack of SDV...". Wouldn't a S3 owner want no SDV rather than more? If you meant lack of SDV solution coming from TiVo, that I understand.

[HDTiVo]

Trolls are typically not 'problem solvers" :p
And this thread doesn't look much like a problem solver either. :p

[mriechers]

Stupid is as stupid posts.

[HDTiVo]

Stupid is as stupid posts. :down:

That's not nice to say.

It takes a minute to look at the 21 posts the OP has made since joining this month. He has some time and experience ahead of him and a track record to build before his views would carry any weight, so let's look forward to that date.

[Brian Tierney]

:down:

That's not nice to say.

It takes a minute to look at the 21 posts the OP has made since joining this month. He has some time and experience ahead of him and a track record to build before his views would carry any weight, so let's look forward to that date.

Perhaps I should not have started this thread. It is just that it urks me when people are so quick to blame Tivo for things like pixelation (spelling?) I have had a DirecTivo for years and never had any problem.

Recently I visited two friends with no cable cards and no DVR. Yet they were both unhappy with the pixelation they were getting. All I am saying is consider the source. A network signal goes through many distribution points before arriving at your TV. The pathway does have dropouts.

[HDTiVo]

Perhaps I should not have started this thread. It is just that it urks me when people are so quick to blame Tivo for things like pixelation (spelling?) I have had a DirecTivo for years and never had any problem.

Recently I visited two friends with no cable cards and no DVR. Yet they were both unhappy with the pixelation they were getting. All I am saying is consider the source. A network signal goes through many distribution points before arriving at your TV. The pathway does have dropouts.
How did you get so "urk"ed so quickly. :)

Maybe its the pixelation threads I have to start reading. :o

[mriechers]

Maybe its the pixelation threads I have to start reading. :o

That thread is kind of a bummer, but still this thread is just silly. Every forum has trolls. I would bet large $$ the admins here do a lot of work to remove the trolls and spammers that are an unfortunate inescapable reality.

But. I've been here over 2 years and have a low post count. Why? I only come here to search for solutions to problems I'm having and get my complaints out where there is no solution (yet). This is something the OP didn't seem to grasp when he posted this thread. Bitch tho I may, I still love my TiVos (all 4 of them) and my cable co can pry them out of my cold, dead hands. Complaining != trolling. When my S3 RMA is resolved I'll probably go back into hiding for another year or so.

<pixelation rant>
The pixelation is a known issue even to TiVo. In my mini-saga with my bum S3, I've spoke to a number of level 2 support techs and 1 level 3 about my issue. They all, without fail, wanted to confirm that I was receiving a black screen and not a pixelated screen.

So far, I have only had the pixelation come up once. I am hoping it is equally infrequent with my next S3.
</pixelation rant>

[GoHokies!]

Then I need to greatly increase the time I spend in this Forum because I have not come across much of anything trying to put TiVo down dishonestly, although I have observed a modest increase in the opposite.No, you don't need to spend any more time, just try reading any posts that you've made. You can't really get much more groundlessly anti-tivo than some of them.

[20TIL6]

I can see where Brian is coming from though. There is one poster here, and he/she is upfront enough to use the same ID across multiple boards, that posts TiVo functional FUD here and TiVo financial FUD over on the Yahoo and InvestorVillage stock boards.

Out of Brian's 5 points, I think all of us can agree on 1-4. And from there, perhaps 5 is not that outlandish.

What strikes me is that the same cast of characters show up in all the same posts, usually pertaining to SDV, or anything to do with DTV, cablecard 2, etc. I think many of us participate in a wide variety of topics, including those, but also general stuff about season passes, unbox, further networking functions, etc. But these guys seem to have a particular focus, and I think that is what Brian is pointing out.

Of course, I don't mean to speak for you Brian.

You know spreading FUD in both a functional community and a financial community at the same time does sound like a good strategy if you had a negative agenda toward a company. I think about all the newbies that are first time visitors to either community. Those that are thinking about buying a TiVo or buying TiVo stock. Any negative impression drawn from either community certainly has the possibility of impacting TiVo's market share in either arena.

[HDTiVo]

You know spreading FUD in both a functional community and a financial community at the same time does sound like a good strategy if you had a negative agenda toward a company. I think about all the newbies that are first time visitors to either community. Those that are thinking about buying a TiVo or buying TiVo stock. Any negative impression drawn from either community certainly has the possibility of impacting TiVo's market share in either arena.
Please point out some of this FUD, particularly the financial, I'd like to see for myself what is being done around here.

Thanks.

[20TIL6]

No, functional FUD is here, finanical FUD on the stock boards.

You want proof of functional FUD here? Come on. Are you serious?

[HDTiVo]

No, functional FUD is here, finanical FUD on the stock boards.

You want proof of functional FUD here? Come on. Are you serious?
I don't bother with those stock boards so I don't know who's on them and here, and I guess I haven't been reading the complaint threads all that much.

[Redux]

You want proof of functional FUD here? Come on. Are you serious?It's an interesting question. There has always been dispute about whether intentional irony is a form of humor. Of course, beyond that, humor of any kind _can_ also be serious. So your question is quite profound.

Unintentional irony, if that was what it was, is of course very often funny, though in terms of intent that's not necessarily relevant to whether his _intent_ was serious.

To get right to it: I think it's pretty clear he was not serious, just putting you on.

[MickeS]

No, you don't need to spend any more time, just try reading any posts that you've made. You can't really get much more groundlessly anti-tivo than some of them.

HDTiVo mostly comes across as anti-TiVo-leadership...

[HDTiVo]

No, functional FUD is here, finanical FUD on the stock boards.

You want proof of functional FUD here? Come on. Are you serious?
Rather than my poking around stock boards, would you describe the kinds of things they are saying? You can PM me instead of putting the info in an open post.

[GoHokies!]

HDTiVo mostly comes across as anti-TiVo-leadership...That's what I meant, I should have been more clear in saying anti-Tivo corporate, which seemed to me most relevant to the OP. Tivo as a product is pretty solid, leaving the only thing for an evildoer do attack would be the business side of things.

[drew2k]

That's what I meant, I should have been more clear in saying anti-Tivo corporate, which seemed to me most relevant to the OP. Tivo as a product is pretty solid, leaving the only thing for an evildoer do attack would be the business side of things.So those not please with the business side of things at TiVo are evildoers? Kind of dramatic, no?

[GoHokies!]

So those not please with the business side of things at TiVo are evildoers? Kind of dramatic, no?Brian certainly thinks that they are. Whether they are just bitter people who like to complain, or people that are actively trying to influence people to not buy a Tivo (or affect the S-word we don't talk about here) makes no difference to me. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, as long as they keep their facts straight. (plus it would be really boring if we all sat around here and agreed on everything!)

[Brian Tierney]

I have been on the Yahoo financial message boards for 10+ years. I have seen it all. It is absolutely dumbfounding the way people try to spread FUD (Fear Uncertainty Doubt) to try to make a stock sell off. They do it with things that are difficult to disproove because it would take a lot of time to research their claims and most people just do not want to put in the time.

<<But these guys seem to have a particular focus, and I think that is what Brian is pointing out>>

What I mainly wanted to point out is that if the Dish Network loses their appeal, they will have to stop offering their own DVR, disable their current DVR'S and pay Tivo 90 million dollars. That figure will go up the longer the appeal process takes. If Tivo wins the case in the appeal, then Tivo should be able to block all companies from offering their own brand of DVR. So now Tivo has become the target of malicious untruths, in my opinion.

I have been reading Tivocommunity for years and it has a much different tone since the Dish Network ruling. One could easily get the impression that Tivo is plagued with problems. The three I have owned have been remarkably problem free. Now if I could just get ABC to come in on my Series 3 I would be so happy.

<<I think about all the newbies that are first time visitors to either community. Those that are thinking about buying a TiVo or buying TiVo stock. Any negative impression drawn from either community certainly has the possibility of impacting TiVo's market share in either arena>>

Exactly.

[davecramer74]

What I mainly wanted to point out is that if the Dish Network loses their appeal, they will have to stop offering their own DVR,

they arent going to stop offering their dvr. they will be paying tivo off.

[Brian Tierney]

they arent going to stop offering their dvr. they will be paying tivo off.

Paying Tivo off is to compensate Tivo for damages from the infringement on Tivo patents. (Lost Tivo sales) (In the past)

If the Dish Network wants to have a DVR then they will have to pay Tivo future royalties. The balance sheet for Dish shows 2.2 billion so they can afford it.

[HiDefGator]

If Tivo wins the case in the appeal, then Tivo should be able to block all companies from offering their own brand of DVR.


As long as we are separating truth from fiction, I do not believe the above statement is true. Tivo does not have a patent on the dvr. Companies could make a dvr today that does not infringe any exsiting Tivo patent.

[gwsat]

Don't drink too much cool aid though... there are plenty of features from other DVRs I have used in the past that Tivo doesn't have and even some cable co. DVR good features that Tivo lacks. No I'm not a troll and I own 2 S3 DVRs - just saying there is plenty of room for improvement for all DVRs out there, Tivo included. We don't need them resting on their laurels thinking good is good enough.
I agree that is a real danger of cool aid intoxication in this Forum. TiVo, indeed, has its weaknesses. Nevertheless, the TiVo software is better than any other DVR software by several orders of magnitude. That a feature here or there is better on other DVRs does not diminish TiVo’s overall superiority, it seems to me.

Although I bought an S1 in 2000 and an S3 early this year, I don’t think TiVo’s future is in its overpriced hardware. I believe that TiVo’s survival depends upon its ability to widely license its software to cable companies for use in cable company owned DVRs. TiVo has licensing agreements in place with Comcast and Cox but its software has yet to be rolled out to the field. I am anxious to see how that turns out.

[HiDefGator]

Agree with you gwsat.

The problem Tivo seems to have today is that the market doesn't appreciate its differentiation. The DVR market today is so new the public still thinks all they want is a replacement for their VCR.

I kind of see Tivo like someone trying to make a high end shovel. A large market for their product just isn't there.

[Uncle Briggs]

No I'm not a troll.Wow I'm so relieved. If you said it, it must be true. :rolleyes:

[HDTiVo]

As long as we are separating truth from fiction, I do not believe the above statement is true. Tivo does not have a patent on the dvr. Companies could make a dvr today that does not infringe any exsiting Tivo patent.
:up:

Not to mention that it requires something to happen which has not, and has odds significantly above zero of not happening. ;)

I have been on the Yahoo financial message boards for 10+ years. I have seen it all. It is absolutely dumbfounding the way people try to spread FUD (Fear Uncertainty Doubt) to try to make a stock sell off. They do it with things that are difficult to disproove because it would take a lot of time to research their claims and most people just do not want to put in the time.
Why do you frequent the board at all?

The technique you describe is similar to what folks here do to defame me.

I have been reading Tivocommunity for years and it has a much different tone since the Dish Network ruling. One could easily get the impression that Tivo is plagued with problems.
How did you get the impression that TiVo is not a troubled business? From the "financial FUD?" Perhaps the ruling and business deterioration have coincided without one having anything whatsoever to do with the other. That would be my opinion.

Wouldn't I be awfully cynical if I concluded that since you come from the Yahoo stock boards, and you posted this in the S3 forum at a time when the stock price has been falling since the last earnings call that you are up to something?

[HDTiVo]

Agree with you gwsat.

The problem Tivo seems to have today is that the market doesn't appreciate its differentiation. The DVR market today is so new the public still thinks all they want is a replacement for their VCR.

I kind of see Tivo like someone trying to make a high end shovel. A large market for their product just isn't there.
I really disagree that there isn't a much larger market out there for TiVo than they have seen. I think their trouble is heavily rooted in the way they are marketing the Stand Alone product, and that that is one of the easiest and quickest things that could be corrected.

Beyond that, they've made a number of strategic and tactical mistakes over a long period of time which could also be corrected over time. Meanwhile things could get better near term if only the former were worked on.

[HDTiVo]

HDTiVo mostly comes across as anti-TiVo-leadership...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5258656&&#post5258656

The only reason that the Unbox videos are selling/renting is the convenience. If you have to leave the house to rent a VHS, you might as well get a DVD instead.

For me, the Unbox video was just good enough to keep using it. It was too soft and "out of focus" to be worth buying, but good enough for a rental every once in a while. In no way can it compete with DVD in any area except convenience.

That's quite an anti-TiVo statement there Mike. You must be a Troll spreading FUD. ;)

[HDTiVo]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, as long as they keep their facts straight.
Then when are you going to make a post that contains a fact, or at least one that doesn't contain lies and libel? :mad:

[GoHokies!]

Then when are you going to make a post that contains a fact, or at least one that doesn't contain lies and libel? :mad:As soon as you point out a statement that I've made that is factually incorrect I'll apologize. Until then, take a chill pill, dude. If you want to try to convince me that your seemingly irrational dislike of Tivo's corporate decisions is actually based in fact and warrants your negative comments about Tivo in every post you make, send me a PM. If you can convince me that Tivo is as badly run as you say it is, I'll even apologize. :)

[richsadams]

Wouldn't I be awfully cynical if I concluded that since you come from the Yahoo stock boards, and you posted this in the S3 forum at a time when the stock price has been falling since the last earnings call that you are up to something? Enough already. This is a clear violation of the Board's rules, specifically:

13. No stock talk - In the past people have tried to influence stock prices either by talking a company down and shorting it or pushing it. This seemed to be their sole purpose at the forum. This poster has been around long enough to know better.

[Brian Tierney]

Companies could make a dvr today that does not infringe any exsiting Tivo patent.

I am not so sure that is true. Tivo owns a patent called "time warping system".

The reading I have done indicates that means watching a recorded program while recording another program. If other DVR'S cannot do that then what is the point of having a DVR other than a Tivo?

[ah30k]

I am not so sure that is true. Tivo owns a patent called "time warping system".

The reading I have done indicates that means watching a recorded program while recording another program. If other DVR'S cannot do that then what is the point of having a DVR other than a Tivo?No, Tivo has a patent on a method of doing time-warping, not on time-warping in general. If you go through the details, they call out exactly what the patent claim is for and it is very detailed. Don't get snowed into believing they patent simple time-warping. Patents are very precise. Only look for what is after the phrase "the patent claim is...." or something like that. It is usually followed by "a method of" and a very detailed description of the method. Don't read too much in the "which does blah blah blah". If you use a different method, you are OK regardless if you method also does "blah blah blah".

[GoHokies!]

I am not so sure that is true. Tivo owns a patent called "time warping system".

The reading I have done indicates that means watching a recorded program while recording another program. If other DVR'S cannot do that then what is the point of having a DVR other than a Tivo?
I think that the patent is on the "how" and not on the "what". If someone else can come up with a different way of doing it, they'll be OK. I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not sure.

[Brian Tierney]

<<How did you get the impression that TiVo is not a troubled business?>>

I was talking about the hardware.

<<Perhaps the ruling and business deterioration have coincided without one having anything whatsoever to do with the other>>

There is no business deterioration. Tivo just announced their first profit.

<<a time when the stock price has been falling since the last earnings call>>

On the date of the earnings call the price was $6.00. Right this minute it is $5.89. Stocks fluctuate. The trend is up and has been since January 4, 2007

[Brian Tierney]

No, Tivo has a patent on a method of doing time-warping, not on time-warping in general. If you go through the details, they call out exactly what the patent claim is for and it is very detailed. Don't get snowed into believing they patent simple time-warping. Patents are very precise. Only look for what is after the phrase "the patent claim is...." or something like that. It is usually followed by "a method of" and a very detailed description of the method. Don't read too much in the "which does blah blah blah". If you use a different method, you are OK regardless if you method also does "blah blah blah".

Here is the method. The recorder needs to turn on at the proper time to record the proper show, while watching another recorded program. There is no other method and Tivo already owns the patent on the idea. They thought of it first. THEY OWN IT.

[ah30k]

Here is the method. The recorder needs to turn on at the proper time to record the proper show, while watching another recorded program. There is no other method and Tivo already owns the patent on the idea. They thought of it first. THEY OWN IT.Is this method actually pulled from your memory or from the patent filing? I could have sworn the last time I read the patent is had a lot more technical specs.

[Brian Tierney]

I think the thing we all have to remember is that a FEDERAL court ruled that the Dish Network is violating Tivo's patents.

In other words, people who have examined the facts in much more detail than anybody on this forum have ruled that Dish is in violation of the law.

[Brian Tierney]

Is this method actually pulled from your memory or from the patent filing? I could have sworn the last time I read the patent is had a lot more technical specs.

I could be wrong but a recorder only needs to know the current date and time and when a show will be on. It then simply turns on the recording feature. To say that there is more than one method of doing this is in my opinion, wrong. Tech specs aside.

I believe Tivo owns the patent on the concept of time warping. Reading the patent was very boring and laborious but it seems to me that it is clear that if a DVR records one show while watching another, that is time warping, and Tivo invented it.

[HiDefGator]

=Brian TierneyThere is no business deterioration. Tivo just announced their first profit.


Tivo is primarily a growth company. In case you haven't checked recently, their subscriber growth has all but stopped over the last year. I would call that serious business deterioration.

[ah30k]

I could be wrong but a recorder only needs to know the current date and time and when a show will be on. It then simply turns on the recording feature. To say that there is more than one method of doing this is in my opinion, wrong. Tech specs aside.

I believe Tivo owns the patent on the concept of time warping. Reading the patent was very boring and laborious but it seems to me that it is clear that if a DVR records one show while watching another, that is time warping, and Tivo invented it.You clearly know nothing about patent law so before correcting my posts you should do a little research. What you believe is irrelevant and if you are too bored to read through the details of the patent then perhaps you should refrain from posting that others are violating a patent that you've never actually read. And also refrain from correcting those who have read it.

[HiDefGator]

I believe you will find that Dish violated the Barton media switch patent. That is just one way to implement DVR internals. It is an efficient and inexpensive way to do it but it is not the only way.

I believe the time warping patent simply covers watching the beginning of a show while it is still recording. If you make users wait until the end of the recording before they can start watching you have just bypassed this patent.

Another option to bypass it is to take the user to the current time being recorded and make them rewind back to the beginning to start watching an inprogress show.

But the ultimate best way to do a DVR that doesn't infringe is the way all the DVD copy programs work today, give consumers a limited DVR that they can write or download their own scripts to control it. Tivo cannot police what individuals do with a product after it ships.

[Brian Tierney]

Tivo is primarily a growth company. In case you haven't checked recently, their subscriber growth has all but stopped over the last year. I would call that serious business deterioration.

That is because Rupert Murdoch, the owner of DirecTV decided to use a DVR from another one of his companies, NDS, for DirecTV. Now that he is selling DirecTV there have already been articles talking about a DirecTV move back to Tivo.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/tivo060507.htm

[Brian Tierney]

You clearly know nothing about patent law so before correcting my posts you should do a little research. What you believe is irrelevant and if you are too bored to read through the details of the patent then perhaps you should refrain from posting that others are violating a patent that you've never actually read. And also refrain from correcting those who have read it.

I said it was boring and laborious. I did read it. YOU are the one who said I did not read it.

[HiDefGator]

That is because Rupert Murdoch, the owner of DirecTV decided to use a DVR from another one of his companies, NDS, for DirecTV. Now that he is selling DirecTV there have already been articles talking about a DirecTV move back to Tivo.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/tivo060507.htm

Begging your pardon it has absolutely nothing to do with DirecTV. I am solely refering to their ability to sell the S2 and S3 standalone products. Sales of those products have dropped to almost nothing over the last year. They are barely selling enough to cover the increasing churn they are also seeing.

[HiDefGator]

That is because Rupert Murdoch, the owner of DirecTV decided to use a DVR from another one of his companies, NDS, for DirecTV. Now that he is selling DirecTV there have already been articles talking about a DirecTV move back to Tivo.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/tivo060507.htm

You might also want to know that the HR20 that DTV is pushing today was not designed or made by NDS. It was all done in house by DTV engineers in California. They have also taken over the software for the non-HD NDS model that DTV sells.

[richsadams]

There is no business deterioration. Tivo just announced their first profit. It's actually their second. They turned a small profit in Q2 05.

[ah30k]

I said it was boring and laborious. I did read it. YOU are the one who said I did not read it.Then you must not have understood what you read. You also must not understand patent law. According to patent law, you cannot patent an idea such as time-warping. You can only patent a process/method for doing it. Said process must be clearly stated in your patent application. Hence the boring and laborious reading. If someone else does the same concept with a different process then they are not violating the patent. You defined process will never make it through the patent review process if it as vague as "turn it on and it records" as your example suggests. I tried to be nice and correct your mistake early but then you got all pompous one me in this post ( http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5259012&&#post5259012 )

[Brian Tierney]

Begging your pardon it has absolutely nothing to do with DirecTV. I am solely refering to their ability to sell the S2 and S3 standalone products. Sales of those products have dropped to almost nothing over the last year. They are barely selling enough to cover the increasing churn they are also seeing.

And your information comes from where? Please post link.

[HiDefGator]

Their last four quarterly reports.

[HiDefGator]

It's actually their second. They turned a small profit in Q2 05.

I said that once before and someone pointed out that the first quarterly profit disappeared due to a later earnings adjustment. I never looked it up but the information seemed credible at the time.

[HDTiVo]

I am not so sure that is true. Tivo owns a patent called "time warping system".

The reading I have done indicates that means watching a recorded program while recording another program. If other DVR'S cannot do that then what is the point of having a DVR other than a Tivo?
Wrong.


<<How did you get the impression that TiVo is not a troubled business?>>

I was talking about the hardware.
But you were talking about the FUD on the Yahoo stock boards. :confused: :o

<<Perhaps the ruling and business deterioration have coincided without one having anything whatsoever to do with the other>>

There is no business deterioration. Tivo just announced their first profit.
Wrong
<<a time when the stock price has been falling since the last earnings call>>

On the date of the earnings call the price was $6.00.
Wrong.


Don't feel bad. I can see the kind of FUD you are getting from people that's making you so upset. :(

[HDTiVo]

I said that once before and someone pointed out that the first quarterly profit disappeared due to a later earnings adjustment. I never looked it up but the information seemed credible at the time.
So do we say this is their first profit, or their second until we see if there is ever a restatement. :D :D

[HiDefGator]

The new low cost S3 could perk up sales later this year. Once it is available. If they surprise me and sell it at $199 they could move some serious numbers of them. The drop in S3 pricing plus rebates should be helping with S3 sales already.

[HDTiVo]

You might also want to know that the HR20 that DTV is pushing today was not designed or made by NDS. It was all done in house by DTV engineers in California. They have also taken over the software for the non-HD NDS model that DTV sells.
Really? That kind of puts the 'change of control' hopes in a different light?

The new low cost S3 could perk up sales later this year. Once it is available. If they surprise me and sell it at $199 they could move some serious numbers of them. The drop in S3 pricing plus rebates should be helping with S3 sales already.
But then what does SAC go to?????????????

[HiDefGator]

But then what does SAC go to?????????????

The question is how cheap can they build them. I'd rather not see them selling at a loss.

[HiDefGator]

One other thought I had recently was that a large portion of their existing subscriber base is lifetimed. Perhaps the idea of a monthly fee is really hurting sales. I was thinking they could start by selling (not at a loss) a featured disabled unit that does not require a monthly fee. Then they could hound the user to death until they agree to try the upgraded feature list paying customers get.

[HDTiVo]

The question is how cheap can they build them. I'd rather not see them selling at a loss.
Well, the 160GB S2DT is priced at $199 now, and TiVo has said they may reduce HW subsidies further, so at $199 for cheapo-S3 ... ?????

[20TIL6]

Congrats Brian,

You've got that light burning pretty bright and you've attracted quite an interest from some.

Hmmm..... Detailed knowledge of quarterly reports and profitability, patent infringement and non-infringement, subscription growth or lack thereof, DVR development at DTV and impact to TiVo, SAC?, what's SAC? Is that a new feature or DVR function or something. :cool:

Seems that some folks have a lot more interest in TiVo beyond function and feature.

Good job! I thought it might take a bit longer before the bait would be taken.

[HiDefGator]

Well, the 160GB S2DT is priced at $199 now, and TiVo has said they may reduce HW subsidies further, so at $199 for cheapo-S3 ... ?????

How about $249, limited features, no subscription required. You can get all the features enabled by subscribing to the Tivo service. That would perk up the fourth quarter for sure.

[HDTiVo]

How about $249, limited features, no subscription required. You can get all the features enabled by subscribing to the Tivo service.
I doubt it, but let's worry about that in 3 months or so.

[HDTiVo]

Congrats Brian,

You've got that light burning pretty bright and you've attracted quite an interest from some.

Hmmm..... Detailed knowledge of quarterly reports and profitability, patent infringement and non-infringement, subscription growth or lack thereof, DVR development at DTV and impact to TiVo, SAC?, what's SAC? Is that a new feature or DVR function or something. :cool:

Seems that some folks have a lot more interest in TiVo beyond function and feature.

Good job! I thought it might take a bit longer before the bait would be taken.
The evildoers always seem to have knowledge.

[GoHokies!]

As soon as you point out a statement that I've made that is factually incorrect I'll apologize. Until then, take a chill pill, dude. If you want to try to convince me that your seemingly irrational dislike of Tivo's corporate decisions is actually based in fact and warrants your negative comments about Tivo in every post you make, send me a PM. If you can convince me that Tivo is as badly run as you say it is, I'll even apologize. :)I'm still waiting, Mr. HDTivo...

I guess I'm not a liar after all!

Here's an example of one of your posts that I was talking about:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5250300&&#post5250300


Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVoPony
"There is a new version of TiVo Desktop in development which is compatible with Vista. No date to share yet.

Pony"

Temporarily disgraceful them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeS
"It is a PITA, and a disappointment, but I'm guessing that both of TiVo's developers have to focus their efforts elsewhere right now, and will get to this sometime next year."



One is going back and forth between Australia and New Zealand, and the other is in England.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wolflord11
"All Vista offers over XP is some eye candy and a few features no one really knows what it does......"

Sounds like Apple will be suing for copyright infringement again then.

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Last edited by HDTiVo : 06-17-2007 at 07:18 PM.

3 Statements - One incomprehensible, to the point I have no idea what you're trying to say to Pony, one factually incorrect (Yes, MickeS was engaging in some humorous exaggeration, but you know Tivo has more than two developers, and I'm sure that they're working a little harder than you give them credit for) and one a completely off base assessment that has no bearing on anything.

While I don't agree with Brian, my point that to see people "trying to put TiVo down dishonestly, although I have observed a modest increase in the opposite." one must merely look in the mirror from time to time certainly holds water. I'm still interested in anyone you can point to that is dishonestly trying to pump Tivo up, but I guess those posts are about as hard to find as the posts that I'm a liar in. :)

[bareyb]

That is because Rupert Murdoch, the owner of DirecTV decided to use a DVR from another one of his companies, NDS, for DirecTV. Now that he is selling DirecTV there have already been articles talking about a DirecTV move back to Tivo.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/tivo060507.htm

Dear GOD let's hope so. I'll leave Comcast so fast I'll leave a vapor trail. This is GREAT news! I hope it happens. My DirecTv experience was SO much better than my Comcast experience.

[richsadams]

Dear GOD let's hope so. I'll leave Comcast so fast I'll leave a vapor trail. This is GREAT news! I hope it happens. My DirecTv experience was SO much better than my Comcast experience. +1 :up:

[GoHokies!]

Has there been any word on whether the new MPG-4 birds will provide enough bandwidth to get rid of the downresed "HD-Lite"? I won't look at them unless that goes away.

[HiDefGator]

Has there been any word on whether the new MPG-4 birds will provide enough bandwidth to get rid of the downresed "HD-Lite"? I won't look at them unless that goes away.

Depends on how long the shortage of HD content lasts. Suppose they could use some bandwidth for additional locals.