Audio questions

[njmurvin]

I'm upgrading my audio stuff from 13 yr old separates to a new AVR. I'm looking at the Yamaha 661 and Onkyo 805. I understand most of what comes out of the DVD player side of the world. However, most of my watching/listening is via the HDTivo.

What should I be looking for in an AVR to be a good matchup with the HR10? What kinds of audio signals are passed over HDMI and the analog outs? Would the audio output of the HR20 be different if/when I eventually switch over?

Also, I recall there being issues with HDMI video out. I'm using component but may be forced to switch to HDMI with these AVRs. Am I asking for trouble?

[TyroneShoes]

I would recommend the JVC D401 or 402, which is a very efficient (7.1-ch X 105w in a 2 RU form factor) AVR with all of the capability you need (street price about $300). It used to take $1200 and a 60-lb. brick 3 times that size to dissipate the heat of 735 watts RMS, but the JVC is considered a "digital" amp (not exactly, it uses class G pulse-width modulation which is technically still analog) so is about 92% efficient.

It has HDMI upconversion and HDMI switching, and is compatible with HDMI v1.1, which is all you need for compatibility with the HR10 for audio. It has all the expected formats and ins and outs, and some bells and whistles, including automatic level control (evens out the loud and soft channels).

[amoneys2k]

I just got the Onkyo 805 and am using it with my HD TiVo now. Sounds excellent and handles the audio formats of the HR10 just fine. You'll be able to hook up audio two ways, either via HDMI, or Optical. Both support 2 channel PCM and Dolby Digital 5.1 which, AFAIK, are the only two digital audio formats output by the HR10.

My only quibble with the 805 is the fact that when using FF/RW/pause/trick play/replay on the HR10 the audio cuts out for a moment during DD 5.1 broadcasts. It seems that the HR10 stops sending an audio signal when navigating a show and then the AVR needs to figure out the format again which takes about a second. I asked some friends with newer AVRs from NAD and Sony and while neither has an HR10, they both report that their AVRs take a second or so to figure out audio formats when they switch too. This was something I wasn't expecting since, like yourself, I was upgrading from a 15 year old receiver. It's a minor annoyance that I can live with.

With the 805, you can use it to switch between component and/or HDMI video sources and it will pass the signal out just as it comes in so long as you output with the same connection type as the input (HDMI in to HDMI out, component in to component out). It will convert component to HDMI, but be warned that it will output 480i as 480p (and 720p via a hidden menu), 720p as 720p and 1080i as 720p. So, if you have a 1080p set, you're not going to want to have it down-converting your component connections to 720p. If you need video upconversion to 1080i and 1080p, check out the SR875 when it comes out.

When HDMI works, it's great. When it doesn't, it's a headache. :P My HDTV won't handshake with HDCP protected devices (even though it should), so I use component for my connections. The 805 won't force you to switch to HDMI if you don't want to, though you'll want to use HDMI for 1080p and uncompressed audio signals if you ever get an HD-DVD or BD player.

Those are the main things with the 805. You can get the full scoop over here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=857502

[njmurvin]

I just got the Onkyo 805 and am using it with my HD TiVo now. Sounds excellent and handles the audio formats of the HR10 just fine. You'll be able to hook up audio two ways, either via HDMI, or Optical. Both support 2 channel PCM and Dolby Digital 5.1 which, AFAIK, are the only two digital audio formats output by the HR10.

My only quibble with the 805 is the fact that when using FF/RW/pause/trick play/replay on the HR10 the audio cuts out for a moment during DD 5.1 broadcasts. It seems that the HR10 stops sending an audio signal when navigating a show and then the AVR needs to figure out the format again which takes about a second. I asked some friends with newer AVRs from NAD and Sony and while neither has an HR10, they both report that their AVRs take a second or so to figure out audio formats when they switch too. This was something I wasn't expecting since, like yourself, I was upgrading from a 15 year old receiver. It's a minor annoyance that I can live with.

With the 805, you can use it to switch between component and/or HDMI video sources and it will pass the signal out just as it comes in so long as you output with the same connection type as the input (HDMI in to HDMI out, component in to component out). It will convert component to HDMI, but be warned that it will output 480i as 480p (and 720p via a hidden menu), 720p as 720p and 1080i as 720p. So, if you have a 1080p set, you're not going to want to have it down-converting your component connections to 720p. If you need video upconversion to 1080i and 1080p, check out the SR875 when it comes out.

When HDMI works, it's great. When it doesn't, it's a headache. :P My HDTV won't handshake with HDCP protected devices (even though it should), so I use component for my connections. The 805 won't force you to switch to HDMI if you don't want to, though you'll want to use HDMI for 1080p and uncompressed audio signals if you ever get an HD-DVD or BD player.

Those are the main things with the 805. You can get the full scoop over here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=857502
Thanks for the terrific and comprehensive writeup. There is one question that I have posted on AVS and no one has answered . . . maybe it's a stupid question, but here goes:

Like everyone else, I eventually intend to get an HD DVD or BR player (or both). Assuming that these players output over both component (video) and HDMI (audio/video) simultaneously (and I understand that existing models do), can the 805 pass the component signal thru to the component out while listening to the audio signal that's coming in via HDMI? I ask this because it is my understanding that the BEST QUALITY HD audio only comes in via HDMI. So, I want to listen via HDMI while watching component. I don't want to run HDMI to my projector because of length and physical issues of running the cable.

[amoneys2k]

Like everyone else, I eventually intend to get an HD DVD or BR player (or both). Assuming that these players output over both component (video) and HDMI (audio/video) simultaneously (and I understand that existing models do), can the 805 pass the component signal thru to the component out while listening to the audio signal that's coming in via HDMI? I ask this because it is my understanding that the BEST QUALITY HD audio only comes in via HDMI. So, I want to listen via HDMI while watching component. I don't want to run HDMI to my projector because of length and physical issues of running the cable.

You are correct. You do need HDMI for the uncompressed audio tracks on HD-DVD and BD. I can't speak for all players, but my PS3 does indeed allow me to send audio via HDMI and video via component at the same time (this is how I have it hooked up now). Since the 805 allows pretty much any input to be assigned to any source, you can for example set the video source for your HD player to component and the digital audio source to HDMI. I was curious about this before buying the 805 knowing that my TV doesn't play nice with HDMI and was pleasantly surprised when it worked. Had it not, I would still been able to connect the component video from the PS3 directly to the TV and the HDMI to the 805 for audio and done the video switching in the TV, but I would have lost the 805's OSD or had to switch TV inputs to use it.

[njmurvin]

You are correct. You do need HDMI for the uncompressed audio tracks on HD-DVD and BD. I can't speak for all players, but my PS3 does indeed allow me to send audio via HDMI and video via component at the same time (this is how I have it hooked up now). Since the 805 allows pretty much any input to be assigned to any source, you can for example set the video source for your HD player to component and the digital audio source to HDMI. I was curious about this before buying the 805 knowing that my TV doesn't play nice with HDMI and was pleasantly surprised when it worked. Had it not, I would still been able to connect the component video from the PS3 directly to the TV and the HDMI to the 805 for audio and done the video switching in the TV, but I would have lost the 805's OSD or had to switch TV inputs to use it.
The Toshibas also pass video thru both connections according to the HD DVD forum at AVS. Thanks for the confirmation that this will work. I think there's an 805 in my near future.

[amoneys2k]

My only quibble with the 805 is the fact that when using FF/RW/pause/trick play/replay on the HR10 the audio cuts out for a moment during DD 5.1 broadcasts. It seems that the HR10 stops sending an audio signal when navigating a show and then the AVR needs to figure out the format again which takes about a second.

Just wanted to post an update. I'm not sure what changed (maybe an update to the TiVo software?), but I not longer get the delay in audio when using the FF/RW/etc. functions with my 805.

[TyroneShoes]

...it is my understanding that the BEST QUALITY HD audio only comes in via HDMI...

A myth, heard a lot in salespeak.

Optical audio is an equivalent delivery protocol, all else (such as the original source recording and compression algorithms) held equal. In many cases, analog audio is also equivalent, assuming 2.0 sources. IOW, there is nothing inherently superior that you can get over HDMI that you can't get by other methods.

[coachO]

Tyrone, I have heard the same as others that HDMI provides uncompressed audio. I currently have my PS3 running 7.1 audio via optical because my Pioneer Receiver does not have hdmi.

I was thinking I was losing some audio by not having a HDMI Receiver and was going to use this to justify my next purchase. Do you have any links that explain this myth?