Why do people take offense at non-TiVo features? [Text View]

astrohip

06-13-2007, 01:17 PM

Often in this forum, someone will ask about or mention a feature they would like. Sometimes it's something totally off-the-wall, other times it may be something that they had on a cable DVR or older TiVo.

Why is it necessary for people to reply with "Why would you want that? I've never needed that.", or "I can't imagine why anyone would want that?". I can understand responses that suggest alternatives, or work-arounds. I can understand responses that say our chances of getting TiVo to add this is less than zero. I can understand almost any reply except "Well, I don't see why YOU want/need this."

Because YOU don't see the need for a feature doesn't invalidate someone else's wish. I've seen threads go on for days (weeks? months?) debating WHY someone wants something. Hey, if they want it, they want it. They prolly ain't gonna get it, but they can want it.

A couple of quick examples: Free Space Indicator. Every time this comes up, people get jumped on for asking. Why why why, they say. You don't need one, they say. Hey, if the person wants one, they can ask. If you want to suggest they use the RD folder or Suggestions as a work-around, that's great. If you want to educate them on the slim-to-none possibility of getting one, great. But don't tell someone what they don't need.

Or how about when someone mentions that their POS Motorola DVR from CoxComTW-FiOS does <insert any feature>, and why doesn't their TiVo do this? You can ask why they like it, or how they use this feature (if it isn't clear). Or you can mention a TiVo alternative. Or that TiVo doesn't have it. Or whatever. But why is there the need to tell that poster "I've been watching TV since FDR was pres, and I've never needed that."

Maybe it's just me . . . :D

ZeoTiVo

06-13-2007, 01:19 PM

why do you feel the need to post this

seriously, the "why do you want this?" really is just a not as thought out "Why would people want this?" question. Seems like a valid reply if someone is posting in a public forum, rudeness being a side matter of a different nature

Atomike

06-13-2007, 01:41 PM

mike3775

06-13-2007, 01:49 PM

The same concept applies to anyone who says that they are considering dropping Tivo to go to a cable/satellite systems DVR as well.

The usual " well good luck with the crappy interface" or "say goodbye to this and that" posts always pop up as well.

Sure its great having Tivo's, but some people on these boards thinks Tivo is the best and the rest are crap, and sadly thats not true at all anymore.

Martin Tupper

06-13-2007, 01:55 PM

Sure its great having Tivo's, but some people on these boards thinks Tivo is the best and the rest are crap, and sadly thats not true at all anymore.
Which is sad, TiVo's aren't the best, or that the rest aren't crap. IMHO, the latter isn't sad at all and in regards to the former, if TiVo isn't still the best, what is?

classicX

06-13-2007, 01:56 PM

It's a simple answer - people think that their way is best and can't handle a differing opinion.

It should be noted, however, that there is a difference between the snide, rhetorical "Why would you want that?" and the honest question "Why would you want that?"

TiVo Troll

06-13-2007, 02:13 PM

Which is sad, TiVo's aren't the best, or that the rest aren't crap. IMHO, the latter isn't sad at all and in regards to the former, if TiVo isn't still the best, what is?

TiVo sets the standard for reliability and stability even if it's not absolutely perfect.

TiVo is best for watching everything timeshifted.

TiVo is best for providing non-DVR extra features. (As advertised TiVo is "more than a DVR"!)

TiVo is an option worth considering for anyone who wants a DVR/DVD recorder but there are other options which may be best for a particular user's needs.

ZeoTiVo

06-13-2007, 02:17 PM

Please ignore the post above. Some folks here are like trolls, but just the opposite - spouting nonsense just because they love Tivo more than anything really important in life. We need a word for inverse-trolls - gnomes maybe? Hobbits? I don't know. Regardless, Astrohip, you're criticism is quite correct, and should be heeded by many folks here.
maybe you could explain why you think
'seriously, the "why do you want this?" really is just a not as thought out "Why would people want this?" '
is nonsense vs just being trollish and rude and referring to posts as spouting nonsense. Seems like the shoe is on the other foot here.

astrohip

06-13-2007, 02:30 PM

seriously, the "why do you want this?" really is just a not as thought out "Why would people want this?" question. Seems like a valid reply if someone is posting in a public forum, rudeness being a side matter of a different nature
I agree, in that a reply asking "why" from an "educate me" POV is valid. It's the ones that don't care why, they just can't see that you might want something they don't, that's what irks me.

I guess my post was semi-rhetorical, in that I know why people make those posts. Maybe I'm hoping they'll see the light, and ease up. And maybe we'll have world peace one day too. :)

mike3775

06-13-2007, 02:32 PM

TiVo sets the standard for reliability and stability even if it's not absolutely perfect.

TiVo is best for watching everything timeshifted.

TiVo is best for providing non-DVR extra features. (As advertised TiVo is "more than a DVR"!)

TiVo is an option worth considering for anyone who wants a DVR/DVD recorder but there are other options which may be best for a particular user's needs.

Your first point can also be said for Cable/Sat as well. My friend has had a comcast DVR for a year now, and he has not had any issues with it at all.

the second point can also be said for any other cable/sat DVR as well. The same can also be said for VCR's as well.

The third point you say is true, but not everyone uses all the features that Tivo offers as well though. I rarely use the games they offer, never used the showcase features, and barely use any other features except the To Go feature.

The 4th point you hit it on the head. Most people with DVR's may not want all the features that Tivo offers, so a cable/sat DVR is just fine for them.

hdhdliving

06-13-2007, 02:36 PM

Sure its great having Tivo's, but some people on these boards thinks Tivo is the best and the rest are crap, and sadly thats not true at all anymore.

TiVo is the best. There is no doubt in my mind about that.

Now are there other DVR's out there that work decently. Sure. But nothing compares still to TiVo.

bidger

06-13-2007, 02:41 PM

That slogan, "TV...your way", can kinda come back and bite TiVo in the @$$ because "TV...my way" is gonna be similar in some respects to what others want/need and different in others.

The die-hard TiVotee relies on Suggestions and I have that feature disabled on all my remaining TiVos. I can find more than enough stuff to watch/record on my own.

"Why do you want to still watch a recorded show when you access the menus/guide?" Well, because it's only gonna be about 4 button clicks to do what I want and it will take less than 30 seconds usually. I can live with a reduced screen for that short time to be able to do what I want to do right now.

TiVo's a fine DVR platform, but those of us who have tried others wonder sometimes, "Why can I not do this with TiVo?". And maybe by asking, it might be something TiVo looks at implementing.

atmuscarella

06-13-2007, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by hdhdliving
TiVo is the best. There is no doubt in my mind about that.

Now are there other DVR's out there that work decently. Sure. But nothing compares still to TiVo.Depends on how you define "best". For many people TiVo does not have the "Best" solution. If I wanted to go HD TiVo would not be the "Best" solution for me as I live in a "cable free zone" and would be getting my HD programing from DishNetwork. For other people cost is part of what they consider when they determine what is "best" for them and TiVo can be substantially more than other options.

Thanks,

TiVo Troll

06-13-2007, 03:09 PM

"TiVo sets the standard for reliability and stability even if it's not absolutely perfect.

TiVo is best for watching everything timeshifted.

TiVo is best for providing non-DVR extra features. (As advertised TiVo is "more than a DVR"!)

TiVo is an option worth considering for anyone who wants a DVR/DVD recorder but there are other options which may be best for a particular user's needs."

Your first point can also be said for Cable/Sat as well. My friend has had a comcast DVR for a year now, and he has not had any issues with it at all.

Really! My Comcast DVR is fine but is not the equal of TiVo regarding reliability or stability. Do Dishnetwork and DirecTV DVR's now equal or exceed TiVo in reliability and stability?

the second point can also be said for any other cable/sat DVR as well. The same can also be said for VCR's as well.

I disagree completely. Regarding functionality no other DVR I've run across has TiVo's search capability coupled with its reliability.

VCR's aren't worth hassling with at all for timeshifting although they're adequate for archiving.

The third point you say is true, but not everyone uses all the features that Tivo offers as well though. I rarely use the games they offer, never used the showcase features, and barely use any other features except the To Go feature.

Many users value TiVo being "more than a DVR".

The 4th point you hit it on the head. Most people with DVR's may not want all the features that Tivo offers, so a cable/sat DVR is just fine for them.
True, but besides cable/sat DVR's there are a number of other options worth considering such as TVGOS capability for manual channel mapping including QAM and ATSC channels and non-TiVo DVR/ DVD recorders w/advanced editing capabilities.

pkscout

06-13-2007, 03:13 PM

So, if someone posts an "I want this" feature we apparently have only two choices. Post nothing or agree with them. Not much of a discussion with only those two options.

ZeoTiVo

06-13-2007, 04:10 PM

I agree, in that a reply asking "why" from an "educate me" POV is valid. It's the ones that don't care why, they just can't see that you might want something they don't, that's what irks me.

I guess my post was semi-rhetorical, in that I know why people make those posts. Maybe I'm hoping they'll see the light, and ease up. And maybe we'll have world peace one day too. :)
OK, I can agree with that, and less unnecessary rudeness and more world peace is something I can get behind as well :)

GoHokies!

06-13-2007, 04:16 PM

Please ignore the post above. Some folks here are like trolls, but just the opposite - spouting nonsense just because they love Tivo more than anything really important in life. We need a word for inverse-trolls - gnomes maybe? Hobbits? I don't know. Regardless, Astrohip, you're criticism is quite correct, and should be heeded by many folks here.As opposed to posters that just attack the posts of others and belittle them because they don't share the same point of view. That's real value there. :rolleyes:

The reason that the FSI issue gets some sharp responses is because it's been discussed over and over and over again, and for whatever reason, Tivo isn't adding one. The other reason that there is some pushback is there is a whole forum for suggestions on this website, so threads like "I wish my Tivo had a..." aren't really all that appropriate for the coffee house.

classicsat

06-14-2007, 12:10 PM

My thoughts are:
Probably a good idea, but would Tivo actually do it?
Would it be practical, considering the enviroment TiVo has to operate in?

rdrrepair

06-14-2007, 07:02 PM

So, if someone posts an "I want this" feature we apparently have only two choices. Post nothing or agree with them. Not much of a discussion with only those two options.And sometimes you get people asking for the craziest reasons around.

I answered one person that wanted TiVo to rework their software because he had a broken remote (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=342668). How ridiculous is that? :confused:

The only saving grace was he at least asked in the correct forum.

rdrrepair

06-15-2007, 05:35 AM

A couple of quick examples: Free Space Indicator. Every time this comes up, people get jumped on for asking. Why why why, they say. You don't need one, they say. Hey, if the person wants one, they can ask. If you want to suggest they use the RD folder or Suggestions as a work-around, that's great. If you want to educate them on the slim-to-none possibility of getting one, great. But don't tell someone what they don't need.Keywest69 didn't ask, he demanded a FSI! Remember that guy? (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5124354#post5124354) :D

I'll agree, sometimes the tone does gets a little out of hand. Other times, the OP's own remarks does all the damage by itself. :confused:

murgatroyd

06-15-2007, 01:35 PM

A couple of quick examples: Free Space Indicator. Every time this comes up, people get jumped on for asking.

In the case of the Free Space Indicator, I think it would mislead people more than it would help them. TiVo-space is not like a videotape, in which you either fill up the tape or not. And it's not like you can just pop in another hard drive to make more room. It is far more volatile.

What you also need to know is by what point in time you will run out of space, and your TiVo will want to get rid of the recordings on the disk to make more room, what I call D-hour (deletion hour). And even that can change rapidly.

The only times I have 'jumped on people' for asking for a FSI, I have tried to show them how knowing 'you need to watch/save recordings by [this time] or else' is (IMHO) a much better way.

When you understand that concept, you can look at your To Do List, see that you have a one hour show that is scheduled to record and will be deleted the moment it finishes recording, and be able to say 'uh-oh'.

If you just think of free space, you say "but I had the room to record that show, so what happened?"

At any rate, the reason to jump on anybody is simple. If you like the way things are done now, you want them to stay the way the are, so there is a natural reaction to speak up and defend them. I happen to like the TiVo Live Guide on the S1 -- I find it vastly superior to the usual grid-style guide. So when people said "I hate the live Guide, why can't we have a grid?" I wanted to jump on them. It's dumb to throw out something new and good, just to satisfy the people who want things 'the way I've always had it before'.

There's a reason the designers do things the way they do. I say, try to see why the decision was made that way before you crap all over what they did.

Jan

ZeoTiVo

06-15-2007, 02:03 PM

Keywest69 didn't ask, he demanded a FSI! Remember that guy? (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5124354#post5124354) :D

I'll agree, sometimes the tone does gets a little out of hand. Other times, the OP's own remarks does all the damage by itself. :confused:
hehe
at least AstroHip was really nice in calling the guy an idiot and gave a detailed explanation of why :)

wolflord11

06-15-2007, 03:01 PM

So, if someone posts an "I want this" feature we apparently have only two choices. Post nothing or agree with them. Not much of a discussion with only those two options.

LOL. I fully understand you there.

Now, Tivo has a great DVR, but the other Sat and Cable companies are coming out with newer DVR's each adding features, stability, and generally getting better and better.

Tivo is great. Yes, but why not also look at features that others have, and build them into the Tivo DVR. For example:

1. It would be nice to have a little digital clock display on the front of my Tivo. That way, I can tell the time by looking at it :D I had that once with a Cable Receiver.

2. A caller ID feature would be great. Then I can see on my screen who is calling.
Nearly all Directv receivers and DVR's have this.

3. A free space indicator. Then I can see how much space I have left before I run out.

Theres probally 10 000 other features others would like. Maybe, just maybe Tivo could actually listen to its users and find out what we really want, not what they think we need. :D

ZeoTiVo

06-15-2007, 05:03 PM

LOL. I fully understand you there.

Now, Tivo has a great DVR, but the other Sat and Cable companies are coming out with newer DVR's each adding features, stability, and generally getting better and better.

Tivo is great. Yes, but why not also look at features that others have, and build them into the Tivo DVR. For example:

1. It would be nice to have a little digital clock display on the front of my Tivo. That way, I can tell the time by looking at it :D I had that once with a Cable Receiver.
they could put it right in the middle and give you the option to make it blink :D. The S3 has this and the ToshiVo RS TX20 I have has an LCD clock. I use it frequently BTW because it is made accurate every day or so as my TiVo calls in :) there is a backdoor code to display time in the lower right of the screen but I had a few freeze ups on standard S2 from it and stopped using it.

2. A caller ID feature would be great. Then I can see on my screen who is calling.
Nearly all Directv receivers and DVR's have this. This was a hack for S1 TiVos and quite popular. TiVo has resisted doing video overlay like this for some reason, possibly they saw such a video overlay as glitchy per my time display experience. It would not be much of a feature if you had to leave the show to see it. Overall I think this boils down to a big advance I would like to see TiVo enable of a solid video overlay implementation and make it open to HME apps. Fantasy sports ticker during the games anyone?
3. A free space indicator. Then I can see how much space I have left before I run out. I stopped commenting on this one a year ago, but I guess that is a comment in itself ;)

astrohip

06-15-2007, 11:00 PM

hehe
at least AstroHip was really nice in calling the guy an idiot and gave a detailed explanation of why :)
But I will defend to the death his right to be an idiot :rolleyes:

steve614

06-16-2007, 10:32 AM

...there is a backdoor code to display time in the lower left of the screen but I had a few freeze ups on standard S2 from it and stopped using it.

This feature must be stablized now. I use it constantly and have never (KOW) had a problem.

My only concern now is should I worry about screen burn-in. What types of TVs are vunerable?

ETA: BTW, my clock appears in the lower right corner.

HDTiVo

06-17-2007, 07:00 PM

Please ignore the post above. Some folks here are like trolls, but just the opposite - spouting nonsense just because they love Tivo more than anything really important in life. We need a word for inverse-trolls - gnomes maybe? Hobbits? I don't know. Regardless, Astrohip, you're criticism is quite correct, and should be heeded by many folks here.
No we don't. A Troll does not have a sign - whether it is positive or negative is irrelevant. There are just so many ignorant people around here who respond aggressively. TiVo, Inc. is just as bad. No wonder so few productive people are on the forum.

I guess my post was semi-rhetorical, in that I know why people make those posts. Maybe I'm hoping they'll see the light, and ease up. And maybe we'll have world peace one day too. :)
And maybe there will be a clean sweep through the TiVo organization and TiVo will become a decent business.

ZeoTiVo

06-17-2007, 09:45 PM

This feature must be stablized now. I use it constantly and have never (KOW) had a problem.

My only concern now is should I worry about screen burn-in. What types of TVs are vunerable?

ETA: BTW, my clock appears in the lower right corner.
I don't think many TVs have burn in problems anymore. So maybe older LCD sets.
My problem was the output would lock up every so often. It was not constant and seemed random in nature. But true, I have not used it in a year so who knows now.

bicker

06-18-2007, 06:55 AM

Why is it necessary for people to reply with "Why would you want that? I've never needed that.", or "I can't imagine why anyone would want that?". I can understand responses that suggest alternatives, or work-arounds. I can understand responses that say our chances of getting TiVo to add this is less than zero. I can understand almost any reply except "Well, I don't see why YOU want/need this." Because YOU don't see the need for a feature doesn't invalidate someone else's wish.You'll see a great deal of that here and on most online forums. There are always a number of people who can only see their own personal perspective, and cannot fathom a reality where their preferences are a small or insignificant minority. Consider them the road hogs of the information superhighway.