Cable A La Carte Pricing

[iWish]

Anyone out there know if Charter, or cable companies generally, must give me the option of purchasing basic cable (local channels, public acces chanles only) along with an HD Tier?

Or do they force you into a "digital" package that you must upgrade from?

Relatedly, would the "basic cable" package get me access to local HD channels?

Thanks for your help.

[GoHokies!]

Generally speaking, the local broadcast HD channels will be available via basic cable, but without the right guide data. But, it should be relatively easy to add an antenna and get those channels OTA for free.

If you're looking for the cable channels in HD (ESPN, TNT, Discovery, etc) I know that Comcast forces you to the digital packages.

[fareal]

I think much of it depends on your location and provider. I've heard of Comcast offering basic service at a reduced price. Someone also mentioned TWC offering it, but in my area TWC does not. Even for basic 1-99 I'd have to pay a digital package price.

But like GoHokies! said you can enable the Cable input option on your TiVo and then do a Channel Scan and you should be able to find quite a few channels but apparently you won't get any guide data to go with the channels.

[DTG]

Relatedly, would the "basic cable" package get me access to local HD channels?

It does for me in New Jersey with ComCrap. But I had to get 2 cable cards so my s3 would receive the programming information, and in addition the local HD channels are encrypted. The cable cards fix that problem too. :D

[Saxion]

would the "basic cable" package get me access to local HD channels?Yes, FCC regulations require this. However, as others have pointed out, without CableCARDs the S3 cannot map those channels into its guide data. Many people hope TiVo will provide a fix for this someday.
it should be relatively easy to add an antenna and get those channels OTA for free.Unfortunately, for a significant portion of the U.S. population, this is far from easy...it is impossible.
the local HD channels are encrypted.Are you sure about that? It would violate FCC regulations if true.

[GoHokies!]

Unfortunately, for a significant portion of the U.S. population, this is far from easy...it is impossible.I highly doubt that. Do you have any facts to back that up?
Are you sure about that? It would violate FCC regulations if true.No it wouldn't. Nothing says that the HD version of the channels have to be unencrypted. Most of them are unencrypted, but the FCC regs don't specify that the HD channel also has to be unencrypted if the analog, SD version isn't.

[CheezWiz]

I highly doubt that. Do you have any facts to back that up?
No it wouldn't. Nothing says that the HD version of the channels have to be unencrypted. Most of them are unencrypted, but the FCC regs don't specify that the HD channel also has to be unencrypted if the analog, SD version isn't.


Just think about it for a minute. FI. Where I am, Tennessee, four cities are primarily transmitting TV. Chattanooga, Knoxville, Nashville and Memphis. The majority of Tennesseeans live well outside the realm of the cities and the 40 to 60 ish mile range of the digital broadcasts. What facts do you need other than common sense? For you to be correct, the majority of the U.S. population must live in that reception range of the nearest city transmitting a digital signal.

Last time I went traveling, the expanse between large cities is very well populated. Where I live now, we cannot get ANY over the air signals. We are 100 miles from Nashville and 100 miles from Knoxville.


As for encrypted HD, right now I think the Cable Cos only have to provide basic analog service for local stations, but that will be gone in a few years and the digital signals will be the basic ones...

[Saxion]

I highly doubt that. Do you have any facts to back that up?Of course, just use common sense. There are over 25,000 multistory condo units in downtown San Diego, with another 10,000 planned over the next 5 years. You can't erect external antennas on them and indoor antennas are iffy depending on how deeply buried your unit is. Apartment dwellers, students in dorms, and anyone who rents their home also would have problems erecting external antennas. And you need externals here...our digital broadcasts are split between 3 small mountain peaks that are about 40 miles apart, creating holes where reception is very poor for a subset of stations. I know...I've spent enough time on antennaweb.org researching my own options. Lastly, we have hundreds of fairly populous canyons that get almost no reception....I know, I live at the bottom of one.

And that's just for San Diego.

Let me ask you...by what logic or facts do you name all of these people (myself included) "insignificant"?

No it wouldn't. Nothing says that the HD version of the channels have to be unencrypted. Most of them are unencrypted, but the FCC regs don't specify that the HD channel also has to be unencrypted if the analog, SD version isn't.Sorry, that's incorrect. The FCC says that everything in the basic tier must be unencrypted, and anything rebroadcast from a local broadcaster must be in the basic tier. I suggest some further studying, starting with this post (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4978290).

[GoHokies!]

Yep, I do say that your personal accounts are insignificant. Sorry, but most of the population lives in built up areas. Guess where the TV transmitters that serve those built up areas are?

OTA reception isn't the mystery or impossible dream that some people make it out to be.

I was wrong about the FCC mandate, I must have missed that thread discussing it. I thought that the analog version of the OTA channels satisfied the FCC requirement.

[CheezWiz]

Yep, I do say that your personal accounts are insignificant. Sorry, but most of the population lives in built up areas. Guess where the TV transmitters that serve those built up areas are?

OTA reception isn't the mystery or impossible dream that some people make it out to be.

I was wrong about the FCC mandate, I must have missed that thread discussing it. I thought that the analog version of the OTA channels satisfied the FCC requirement.

RE: everyone lives in urban areas..
Do you have any facts to back that up? That is always your response..

[HiDefGator]

what's the point of OTA if cable will rebroadcast those channels anyway? It's not like I really want an antenna on my roof. Especially not one that needs to point in three different directions at the same time.

[QZ1]

If you're looking for the cable channels in HD (ESPN, TNT, Discovery, etc) I know that Comcast forces you to the digital packages.
The typical Comcast area has all of the HD 'cable' non-premium channels in Digital Classic, except Encore HD OD in Digital Preferred.
But, I have become aware of a few areas that have one or more HD 'cable' channels in Expanded service, in addition to those in Digital Classic.
Also, in some areas, Digital Classic requires Expd. anyway; but in others areas, Digital Classic doesn't have any such pre-requisite.
The only way to know what channels are in each service and what the pre-requisites are, is to pick up one's local Prices/Services List.

[Saxion]

Sorry, but most of the population lives in built up areas. Guess where the TV transmitters that serve those built up areas are?What are you talking about? I live near downtown in the sixth largest city in the U.S. and I can barely receive anything. But don't let facts get in the way of your opinion. :rolleyes:

[cramer]

Just think about it for a minute. FI. Where I am, Tennessee...
And the entire population of TN still does not amount to a "significant portion of the U.S. population". What you are, in fact, saying is that most of TN will be out of range for OTA reception without some serious hardware. I would even accept that a significant portion of the US land mass is out of range -- even it we don't count Alaska.

[CheezWiz]

And the entire population of TN still does not amount to a "significant portion of the U.S. population". What you are, in fact, saying is that most of TN will be out of range for OTA reception without some serious hardware. I would even accept that a significant portion of the US land mass is out of range -- even it we don't count Alaska.


OK, I guess I am stupid huh... In NY state, the areas 60 miles out from city center are desolate wastelands huh? Only Tennessee has a rural population. And all people who live 60 miles out of city center are insignificant. good god...

[mattack]

what's the point of OTA if cable will rebroadcast those channels anyway?

Because you don't need cablecards?

(note I DON'T have an antenna set up, and MAY likely get cablecards.. but I still think trying OTA eventually would be good.)

[GoHokies!]

What are you talking about? I live near downtown in the sixth largest city in the U.S. and I can barely receive anything. But don't let facts get in the way of your opinion. :rolleyes:Yep and you're one person. You are not a significant portion of the US population, sorry. I doubt that everyone in San Diego is so afflicted.

I'd try another antenna if I were you.

[GoHokies!]

RE: everyone lives in urban areas..
Do you have any facts to back that up? That is always your response..
I'm sorry that I expect posters to back up their wild assertions with actual facts to help promote an honest discussion.

If you don't like it, learn to live with it.

A quick google search tells me that the state population is just about 6 million. Assuming half of the state lives outside of range of a TV station (and that's generous, I think), 3 of the 300 million people in the US in TN can't get broadcast TV. I wouldn't call 1% a "significant portion".

[CheezWiz]

I'm sorry that I expect posters to back up their wild assertions with actual facts to help promote an honest discussion.

If you don't like it, learn to live with it.

A quick google search tells me that the state population is just about 6 million. Assuming half of the state lives outside of range of a TV station (and that's generous, I think), 3 of the 300 million people in the US in TN can't get broadcast TV. I wouldn't call 1% a "significant portion".

There are 50 states last time I checked.

Taking info from here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population

The total population of the 254 most populous cities in the US, that only amounts to approximately 80 million out of 300 ish million people. So are you saying that 220 million people is not significant?

By the way, only about 2.1 million Tennesseans live in the counties hosting the aforementioned cities.

[Saxion]

Well said CheezWiz.

I think we've beaten this dead horse to a pulp. The simple fact is that there are many people who cannot reasonably receive all their locals OTA.

Back to the OP's question...use an antenna if you can, by all means. But don't assume you'll be able to receive all your locals this way. A good place to start checking is antennaweb.org. If you can't receive all your locals OTA, then yes you can receive them over cable with the most basic cable package, but the S3 today will not supply guide data for them unless you have CableCARDs (which might mean an upgrade to your cable package).

[DN325Ci]

...I think we've beaten this dead horse to a pulp. The simple fact is that there are many people who cannot reasonably receive all their locals OTA...

I agree. That's been well documented elsewhere as one of the big initial barriers-to-entry for satellite TV in the early days. Sat TV didn't achieve significant market penetration until after the "locals" lawsuits were settled and the deals were in place.

Don

[GoHokies!]

I agree. That's been well documented elsewhere as one of the big initial barriers-to-entry for satellite TV in the early days. Sat TV didn't achieve significant market penetration until after the "locals" lawsuits were settled and the deals were in place.

DonThat was long before the days of digital TV broadcasts allowed for long range reception with high picture quality unlike the poor PQ you get from analog brodcasts (unless you live in San Diego or Tennessee where radio waves don't work).

[DN325Ci]

That was long before the days of digital TV broadcasts allowed for long range reception with high picture quality unlike the poor PQ you get from analog brodcasts (unless you live in San Diego or Tennessee where radio waves don't work).
Love to argue, don't you? You can choose to minimize it if you wish. "The simple fact is that there are many people who cannot reasonably receive all their locals OTA."

Don

[GoHokies!]

Love to arguecorrect incorrect statements, don't you?
There, fixed that for you.

The point is that OTA isn't as hard as people make it out to be. At 25 miles out I can get HD OTA reliably using a cheap Rat Shack chunk of wire in the middle of a big block of townhouses.

It isn't rocket science.

[bicker]

Yes, FCC regulations require this.The regulations state that Must Carry only applies to the analog channel (and only if desired by the broadcaster), as long as a channel is broadcasting both analog and digital. Once a channel goes to digital-only, then the regulation states that Must Carry applies to the digital channel (and if desired by the broadcaster).

[bicker]

The FCC says that everything in the basic tier must be unencrypted, and anything rebroadcast from a local broadcaster must be in the basic tier.The first is true, the second is false. See above. While most large MSOs do put digital locals on the basic tier, there is currently no requirement to do so. That will change.

[CheezWiz]

That was long before the days of digital TV broadcasts allowed for long range reception...


Do you have any documentation to back that up?

[Teeps]

Of course, just use common sense.
There are over 25,000 multistory condo units in downtown San Diego, with another 10,000 planned over the next 5 years.

You can't erect external antennas on them and indoor antennas are iffy depending on how deeply buried your unit is.

Last time I checked the FCC said otherwise.

[JJ]

A la carte
could possibly lure me back to Comcast. HD channels without the need to buy SD other than basic/required. Kind of strange that we must buy SD channels we will never watch for the privelidge of buying a premium HD tier...

[Saxion]

The first is true, the second is false. See above. While most large MSOs do put digital locals on the basic tier, there is currently no requirement to do so. That will change.If you can find a specific flaw in dt_dc's post (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4978290) or quote a specific FCC regulation to the contrary, then by all means share. Otherwise, dt_dc's stellar reputation on this forum is beyond reproach, and his interpretation stands.

Edit: I think I understand the confusion. I didn't mean to say or imply that all locally broadcast channels (both analog and digital) must be carried over cable (no dual-must-carry). Rather, I meant that if a cable company chooses to carry any locally broadcast channel (analog or digital), then it must be included in the basic tier, and must be unencrypted. Better? :)

[Saxion]

Last time I checked the FCC said otherwise.The FCC only says that you cannot be unreasonably restricted from doing so (by HOA, community rules, etc). You still need a physical place to be able to erect one, that doesn't require use of common area property. If you live on floor 1 of a 30 story condo highrise...where are you going to put it?