The Shield "Exiled" 5/15/07 *SPOLIERS*

[MasterOfPuppets]

I guess I'm a little confused with all of the past storylines suddenly popping back up.
Apparently Shane's sole motivation for harassing Ben's widow was to draw Vic out.
Not sure why the diplomat showed up, or why his arm was gone.
I'm guessing Shane was buddying up with the gas station hit guys for protection against Vic, and/or perhaps because they're Armenian and the money train connection.

[balboa dave]

I guess I'm a little confused with all of the past storylines suddenly popping back up. Apparently Shane's sole motivation for harassing Ben's widow was to draw Vic out.Yes. That's why he said so.
Not sure why the diplomat showed up, or why his arm was gone.No one knows yet, but it seemed the money was payment for his arm and whatever role he played.
I'm guessing Shane was buddying up with the gas station hit guys for protection against Vic, and/or perhaps because they're Armenian and the money train connection. These are the post money train guys, and have nothing to do with that. Shane needs money to get out of town. Strong arming immigrants is right up his alley. The guy whose "name ends in -ian" will pay for his involvement.

[TAsunder]

Wow, so Vic really IS stupid after all? Their mole is dead now because vic let someone use that phone...

[vikingguy]

Wow, so Vic really IS stupid after all? Their mole is dead now because vic let someone use that phone...

I am willing to bet it was asavada's buddy who ratted out the hernan. Asavada told his buddy about the mole.

Things are moving along nicely another solid episode.

[Dukeman72]

Wow, so Vic really IS stupid after all? Their mole is dead now because vic let someone use that phone...
How do we know this? I thought I saw Hernan in the preview for next ep. I did notice how he let dude use the burner cell phone. Dumb move. :eek:

[Idahoguy]

I am willing to bet it was asavada's buddy who ratted out the hernan. Asavada told his buddy about the mole.

No doubt about it. Remember how that was played up a couple of episodes ago with Claudette getting all ticked when Asavada told the developer too much police information? Hernan's death had nothing to do with the throwaway cell phone.

[TAsunder]

Asaveda's buddy did not know the identity of the mole... only that one existed.

[super dave]

It looked to me it was the Fed that set up his mole, he is probably involved with the cash and didn't want the investigation to go any further. Hurnan lost all trust in his handler for a good reason, and his proved it with his life. The Fed wanted to pull him out.

[danplaysbass]

Ok, before I chime in, I have seen all the remaining episodes on torrents. Since I don't want to give anything away where did this episode end?

[MasterOfPuppets]

Ok, before I chime in, I have seen all the remaining episodes on torrents. Since I don't want to give anything away where did this episode end?

Vic and Shane meeting up outside of Ben's widow's house.
Vic tosses Shane the identities of Ben's Mexican contacts.
Shane tosses Vic his documentation of all of his and Vic's wrongdoings and says it will come out if anything happens to him or his family.

I would bet that it's Acevada's buddy that leaked Hernan's being undercover. He wouldn't need an exact identity.

[TAsunder]

I would bet that it's Acevada's buddy that leaked Hernan's being undercover. He wouldn't need an exact identity.

Right, but they would WANT an identity once they found out. They made a point to show us the phone in two scenes... one with vic telling him he has an untraceable phone and giving him the number. Another later where a guy needs a phone, so vic gives him this very same phone and leaves him alone in the room with the phone. Since putting those two specific parts into the episode was a conscious choice, it's either a red herring or the guy got hernan's number out of vic's phone and now knows who the cop is.

They may not have thought to check the phone for the mole's # without the leak, but they wouldn't know who the mole was all that easily without vic's stupid maneuver.

[scottykempf]

Vic and Shane meeting up outside of Ben's widow's house.
Vic tosses Shane the identities of Ben's Mexican contacts.
Shane tosses Vic his documentation of all of his and Vic's wrongdoings and says it will come out if anything happens to him or his family.


"Don't worry, it's not like it's a live grenade or anything." LOL

[goblue97]

Right, but they would WANT an identity once they found out. They made a point to show us the phone in two scenes... one with vic telling him he has an untraceable phone and giving him the number. Another later where a guy needs a phone, so vic gives him this very same phone and leaves him alone in the room with the phone. Since putting those two specific parts into the episode was a conscious choice, it's either a red herring or the guy got hernan's number out of vic's phone and now knows who the cop is.

They may not have thought to check the phone for the mole's # without the leak, but they wouldn't know who the mole was all that easily without vic's stupid maneuver.
I'm still confused on alot of the hernan storyline but I tend to agree with the above. I think Vic slipped up by letting that one guy they had in for questioning use his "untraceable" phone.

Is it just me or do some storylines get very confusing? The whole deal with Gilroy's ex just didn't make sense to me.

[HereBDragons]

I tend to agree with the fact that Vic slipped up by letting the guy use his cell phone. It is possible he looked through the list of numbers that have dialed into that phone and recognized the informant's. That said, I also think it is possible that the INS agent either pulled the informant, or passed on some information that had him killed, in order to protect whatever agenda INS is up to.

[Bierboy]

How do we know this? I thought I saw Hernan in the preview for next ep. I did notice how he let dude use the burner cell phone. Dumb move. :eek:Please spoilerize comments about previews. :down: Some of us don't watch them.

[newsposter]

does it seem to you like the capt is really sticking her neck out and taking a lot of risks or at least becoming more ballsy? I guess she knows playing it safe doesnt work

i hope i real life the statistics race they are saying really doesnt happen...

[bigpuma]

Asaveda's buddy did not know the identity of the mole... only that one existed.

Which would probably be enough information to figure out who it is. I believe this is exactly what happened.

[dimented]

But the mole is in the salvadorian gang. Vic gave his phone to a Bizlat in the interrogation room. How would a bizlat recognize a salvadorian boss's cellphone number. Even if he knew there was a mole?

[vikingguy]

But the mole is in the salvadorian gang. Vic gave his phone to a Bizlat in the interrogation room. How would a bizlat recognize a salvadorian boss's cellphone number. Even if he knew there was a mole?

Also why would the bizlat help out a rival. A mole that would take down a rival would be something the bizlats would want to keep secret.

If there was a leak it has to be asavada's buddy no one else makes any sense. They don't show people on the show for no reason that guy is dirty as hell. I think vic will figure it out and black mail asavada into rigging the retirement hearing to let vic stay.

[goblue97]

But the mole is in the salvadorian gang. Vic gave his phone to a Bizlat in the interrogation room. How would a bizlat recognize a salvadorian boss's cellphone number. Even if he knew there was a mole?
I refer you to my earlier post when I said I tend to get confused sometimes. I hate to say it but all those gang guys look the same to me. Is there an easy way to tell them apart? WHatever happened to the red and blue bandanas? Maybe they could borrow an idea from Survivor. ;)

Anyhow, after hearing that it was a different gang, I agree that it had to be Pezuela (Acevada's buddy) that gave up the mole.

[mwhip]

You know as much as I hate to say it I am kinda on Shane's side. It is not like Vic ever set a good example on where the line was. Shane was just for once making the hard decision like Vic had done so many times. Yeah it was the wrong one but Shane was just doing what he thought Vic would do to protect their families and since Vic is a bad role model Shane did what he thought was necessary.

[dimented]

You know as much as I hate to say it I am kinda on Shane's side. It is not like Vic ever set a good example on where the line was. Shane was just for once making the hard decision like Vic had done so many times. Yeah it was the wrong one but Shane was just doing what he thought Vic would do to protect their families and since Vic is a bad role model Shane did what he thought was necessary.

Maybe. But Shane has always been very reckless in everything he has done. Killing Lem was a spur of the moment decision. Vic is always controlled and plans things out. He knew he was going to kill Terry long before he did. And in everything else bad they have done except killing terry Vic has consulted with the rest of the guys. I take it as Shane makes spur of the moment decisions that are usually wrong where Vic thinks about things much more and usually gets it right.

[dimented]

And on another note. How excellent is the writing in this show that we are actually debating who is right? They are both wrong. They are both murderers. :D

[TAsunder]

The bizlat probably used the information as leverage, who knows. They wouldn't just insert a random phone in those two scenes without a reason.

[mwhip]

And on another note. How excellent is the writing in this show that we are actually debating who is right? They are both wrong. They are both murderers. :D

I was thinking the same thing.

And yeah you are right Shane is kind of a lap dog that is eager to please. Vic is calculating that is why they have never been really caught if Shane was in charge we never would have got past season 1.

[Rob Helmerichs]

Maybe. But Shane has always been very reckless in everything he has done. Killing Lem was a spur of the moment decision. Vic is always controlled and plans things out. He knew he was going to kill Terry long before he did. And in everything else bad they have done except killing terry Vic has consulted with the rest of the guys. I take it as Shane makes spur of the moment decisions that are usually wrong where Vic thinks about things much more and usually gets it right.
"Right," perhaps; but he's still wrong! :D

But yes, Vic would try a lot harder to be sure he was killing the right guy, and I doubt he would have killed Lem even if Lem WERE going to rat them out.

I also doubt that even if he WOULD kill Lem, he would do it based on the word of a borderline psychopath IA cop who has an insane grudge against Vic...

[BobB]

The bizlat probably used the information as leverage, who knows. They wouldn't just insert a random phone in those two scenes without a reason.

But how would seeing a phone number tell him anything? He'd have no way of knowing it wasn't just Vic's wife or the local pizza joint. It's not like Vic would have entered the number with the notation "Hernan, our spy in the Salvadorans."

I agree with those who think it's the developer - though the heavyhanded way they played the scene where Aceveda passed the info to him does kind of look like we're being set up to think that.

Oh, for the subtlety of The Wire! When will it be back?

[MikeMar]

These are the post money train guys, and have nothing to do with that. Shane needs money to get out of town. Strong arming immigrants is right up his alley. The guy whose "name ends in -ian" will pay for his involvement.

I was DYING laughing when he said the "ian" thing! That's what I tell people when they ask about Armenians. If it ends in IAN (or sometimes YAN) they are most likely Armenian :D

[dirtypacman]

Awesome episode--- this season has been exciting to say the least.
Shane my buddy WHY WHY WHY !!!! What an unbelievable character.
Vic is just coming up with some of the best one liners this season.

Always a blast to watch looking forward to next week.

[MasterOfPuppets]

I knew that the guy that used Vic's phone was a ByzLat, but couldn't remember which gang the mole was in.
Plus the mole called Vic, Vic didn't call him.

Both Vic and Shane have obviously done all sorts of bad things on the show...but Vic has always been more cerebral while Shane is always an off the cuff guy. Vic's killings have always had some type of justification, so to speak. Shane killing Lem, on the other hand, was a spur of the moment decision and was obviously incorrect.

[BobB]

...Shane killing Lem, on the other hand, was a spur of the moment decision and was obviously incorrect.

I don't know - a couple of people here have referred to Shane's killing of Lem as "spur of the moment," but Vic saw it as totally premeditated - remember, a couple of times he mentioned how Shane had stolen the grenade way back at the time of the raid on the Salvadorans, BEFORE Aceveda started going after Lem, implying that Shane had this in mind as an option even before there was a (to him) compelling reason to take action. That was clearly one of the reasons Vic was so pi$$ed of at Shane, not just that he had killed Lem but that he'd planned it for a while, and he flat out said so.

[lordargent]

does it seem to you like the capt is really sticking her neck out and taking a lot of risks or at least becoming more ballsy? I guess she knows playing it safe doesnt work

i hope i real life the statistics race they are saying really doesnt happen...

She's in an all or nothing situation. Either the stats come up, or the barn gets closed.

So whatever extra risks she takes, short of getting people killed, isn't going to make things any worse.

[JLucPicard]

Shane's opinion of Lem went way south after Lem burned most of the money train cash. I don't think he ever really put that behind him.

[balboa dave]

Wow, so Vic really IS stupid after all? Their mole is dead now because vic let someone use that phone...Vic is not the one who is stupid. The dead guy is the gas station owner. Hernan is just missing, and even that doesn't mean he was discovered yet; maybe he just has to lay low. There were two leaks. One of the girls at the bust overheard Hernan use the safe word, and as mentioned, the developer knows there is a mole. The phone has nothing to do with anything.

[balboa dave]

How do we know this?........... I did notice how he let dude use the burner cell phone. Dumb move. :eek:Hey, read the FAQs. Previews can't be discussed without using spoilers.

[Bierboy]

Hey, read the FAQs. Previews can't be discussed without using spoilers.I already chastised the poster. (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5160426&&#post5160426)

[verdugan]

But yes, Vic would try a lot harder to be sure he was killing the right guy

Just like he did with Guardo? :D

[MasterOfPuppets]

Just like he did with Guardo? :D

Vic had decent reasons to believe that Guardo killed Lem at the time.
Also...Guardo obviously did not have the personal ties to Vic and the rest of the Strike Team that Lem had.

I certainly would not classify Vic as "stupid" for any of the reasons mentioned in this thread...or any other reasons that I'm aware of at the moment.

[Rob Helmerichs]

Vic had decent reasons to believe that Guardo killed Lem at the time.
Yes, Vic worked a lot harder to figure out who he was going to kill than Shane did.

And Shane did a lot better job of framing Guardo than Kavanaugh did of framing Lem.

[verdugan]

Vic had decent reasons to believe that Guardo killed Lem at the time.


Well, so did Shane at the time. It wasn't until much later that he found out that Lem wasn't going to turn them in. And that's when his torment began.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not defending Shane, and I do not think that Vic is stupid at all. Shane was smart to get his policy insurance against Vic.

[Rob Helmerichs]

Well, so did Shane at the time.
No, he didn't. He had the word of a cop who was trying to PUT HIM IN PRISON versus the word of one of his best friends--except he never even asked his best friend. He just dropped a grenade in his lap.