Flip This House Rip Off

[BeanMeScot]

Fox 5 Atlanta News (http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail;jsessionid=3F135ED7A6D3C00BE976479374450B92?contentId =3200981&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1) is reporting that the segments of Flip This House featuring Sam Leccima were faked. The houses never sold and he didn't renovate them.

[kevostl]

very interesting --- I sometimes wondered about those shows!

[LoadStar]

Not surprised. I wouldn't be surprised if the Montelongo segments are faked as well. The "Flip This Lawsuit" page (a blog by a fan following the dispute between Trademark and A&E) discovered that the Montelongo's were actively soliciting actors to participate in a scene:
http://www.flipthislawsuit.com/2006/09/05/melina-montelongo-seeks-actor-for-flip-this-house/

Kind of explains partially why Trademark might have named their new show "The Real Deal."

[bubba1972]

The last episode of 'The Real Deal' I recorded changed to 'The Property King' in my now playing list and even the season pass name. It is not back to 'The Real Deal'. Did anyone else notice this?

[MikeMar]

I somewhat enjoyed this show when Maggie would put it on, but after like 5-6 episodes it just got boring and annoying.

[BeanMeScot]

I had an SP for the Richard version. I watched some of the new ones but my season pass dropped somewhere along the way and I never put it back.

[Jerkymom]

The last episode of 'The Real Deal' I recorded changed to 'The Property King' in my now playing list and even the season pass name. It is not back to 'The Real Deal'. Did anyone else notice this?

Thank goodness I'm not the only one it happened to -- thought I was totally losing it this time! :D I even did a search for 'The Real Deal' after I noticed the change, but it wasn't listed at all. My husband thinks I hallucinated the whole thing! A day later, 'Property King' is nowhere to be found and the recorded episode is again named 'The Real Deal' in the NPL.

[LoadStar]

The last episode of 'The Real Deal' I recorded changed to 'The Property King' in my now playing list and even the season pass name. It is not back to 'The Real Deal'. Did anyone else notice this?
Odd - it remains called "The Real Deal" on my cable box channel guide. The page on TLC's website still is labeled "The Real Deal," but there is also references to "The Property King" on TLC's program guide.

[appleye1]

I actually prefer the Montelongos now I think. They've grown on me.

Recently I've been catching reruns that have a group from South Carolina (mostly Myrtle Beach area I think). But I don't even see them on the A&E website. Does anyone else know which ones I'm talking about?

[uncdrew]

I watch this show religiously, since I flip houses in Atlanta.


I won't say I doubted Sam Leccima and gang, but I was getting frustrated with them. The day after the show I drive over and look at the houses he rennovates.

They looked like crap (from the outside). I constantly wondered how he sold them so fast and for so much.


... and in one case, the landscaping disappeared. Which this expose revealed. When they were filming the episode, they showed the landscaper putting in trees still in the pots. ?!?

I remember thinking WTF is that. And that's why; they removed the plants after filming.

Whoa.


It really is kinda cool to drive by the houses on these shows. And I was always a bit puzzled how many still have "FOR SALE" signs on them. :D

[TBDigital]

Wish they would go back to the New Haven boys. Only seen one with them.

Detest the Montelongos...not all of them, but enough of them to not want to watch them ever again.

The current Atlanta group isn't too bad.

[boywaja]

Odd - it remains called "The Real Deal" on my cable box channel guide. The page on TLC's website still is labeled "The Real Deal," but there is also references to "The Property King" on TLC's program guide.

on my series3, my season pass for The Real Deal recorded The Property King. so they stuck with the same id number.

[Jesda]

Veronica is hot.

[MikeMar]

I watch this show religiously, since I flip houses in Atlanta.


I won't say I doubted Sam Leccima and gang, but I was getting frustrated with them. The day after the show I drive over and look at the houses he rennovates.

They looked like crap (from the outside). I constantly wondered how he sold them so fast and for so much.


... and in one case, the landscaping disappeared. Which this expose revealed. When they were filming the episode, they showed the landscaper putting in trees still in the pots. ?!?

I remember thinking WTF is that. And that's why; they removed the plants after filming.

Whoa.


It really is kinda cool to drive by the houses on these shows. And I was always a bit puzzled how many still have "FOR SALE" signs on them. :D

Jeeze, even this show is completly fake huh? Glad I watch next to no reality TV.

[marksman]

The funny thing is the Atlanta group from last year got a lot of bad publicity because apparently the guy was a snake. I assume these latest allegations are against the new Atlanta group.

As for the Montelongos, well David is cool and I guess that is why he left his insane brother and this charade.

Although the last montelongo episode was great. Since David left, and Armando went insane.

By the way the Real Deal still shows up as Real Deal on my Tivo.

[Waldorf]

Apparently the deal is:

Richard, Ginger, and the gang at Trademark Properties in South Carolina were shopping this show around and it got picked up by A&E as 'Flip This House'....

During the second season, A&E decided to continue the show, but without the Trademark guys, thus the lawsuit and subsequent TLC show "The Real Deal"

I think the San Antonio (Montelongos) and Atlanta (Leccimas) came on board in season two and the hilarious New Haven guys came on in season three.

In addition, I recommend "Property Ladder" as a "What not to do" reference show. :)


EDIT: Sorry, I had A&E and TLC reversed.

[appleye1]

Apparently the deal is:

Richard, Ginger, and the gang at Trademark Properties in South Carolina were shopping this show around and it got picked up by A&E as 'Flip This House'....

During the second season, A&E decided to continue the show, but without the Trademark guys, thus the lawsuit and subsequent TLC show "The Real Deal"

I think the San Antonio (Montelongos) and Atlanta (Leccimas) came on board in season two and the hilarious New Haven guys came on in season three.

In addition, I recommend "Property Ladder" as a "What not to do" reference show. :)


EDIT: Sorry, I had A&E and TLC reversed.Oh, the Trademark guys are the ones I've been seeing in reruns. They're OK. I guess their falling out with A&E is the reason they aren't listed on the website.

And to make things even more confusing, TLC also has a 1/2 hour show called "Flip That House". I don't know which show came first, Flip THIS House, or Flip THAT House, but one of those networks needs to be told to "behave"!

[Jerkymom]

By the way the Real Deal still shows up as Real Deal on my Tivo.

It's back to being 'The Real Deal' on mine too. That really weird thing happened only once. A recorded Real Deal episode in my NPL was automatically changed to 'Property King', which I'd never heard of. I played it and realized it was actually 'The Real Deal', so I just figured the series name had been changed. The next day (obviously after my TiVo called in for program guide updates), the 'Property King' title had disappeared and that same recorded episode was again entitled 'The Real Deal'. :eek:

[Snappa77]

The funny thing is the Atlanta group from last year got a lot of bad publicity because apparently the guy was a snake. I assume these latest allegations are against the new Atlanta group.

As for the Montelongos, well David is cool and I guess that is why he left his insane brother and this charade.

Although the last montelongo episode was great. Since David left, and Armando went insane.

By the way the Real Deal still shows up as Real Deal on my Tivo.


Does anyone have any info on this?

Did they really "break up"?


edit: i think i might be behind a few eps. If the info is there then i apologize.

[phodg]

Seeing as David and Melina are still on the Montelongo website and they're doing real estate boot camps in July I don't think they went anywhere. Than Merrill is also doing the boot camp with them ...

http://www.tribeworkshop.com/

[GDG76]

I always thought that Leccima seemed a bit like a rip-off artist but never expected that is was this faked. He just seemed "fake".

The Montelongos version ticks me off just because you can tell that about 75% of the scenes are staged. Plus, he's an a-hole, though it has been funny watching him get fat.

I much prefer Property Ladder. The host is much better to look at than any of these guys...

[Billyh1026]

My SP went from The Real Deal to Property King to The Real Deal too. Thought that was kinda weird. Doesn't matter...important thing is I found the Trademark group again.
Richard Davis and the Trademark group do things the right way. He treats people fair and seperates family from business...and it show's.

I wonder what happened to Kevin? He was a character on the show. I remember him taking off and shooting shotguns with some of his crew. The time when he and Richard staked out the house that got vandalized. Funny stuff...

I'll reserve my remarks about the Atlanta & San Antonio teams since they're not kind. Except for this one thing about Angela (the real estate agent for Sam in Atl). I saw the one episode she did her flip on and she's got a lot to learn.

[marksman]

Does anyone have any info on this?

Did they really "break up"?


edit: i think i might be behind a few eps. If the info is there then i apologize.

Phodog points out they seem to still be associated with the group.

I think they have some kind of weird arrangement though. Not to spoil the House of Horrors episode, which is the one when David left, but the banner on the house at the end said "ArmandoMontelongo.com".

So I think they may have companies to do business apart. David's gripe was he did not want his name on the project. Which is pretty smart, especially considering it being on television.

I just wonder what liabilities these flippers take on if they do a short-cut or something and sell a house and it later becomes a problem. Having it documented on tv is not going to help them.,


Anyways, from the people who I know watch the show, even the break-up seemed a bit staged, just to create more drama. It seems the production company for the show panicked when they lost Richard et al. I think most of the Trademark stuff was real, and they were dealing with a pretty good sized company. Then they go to this little guys who are not capable of doing the things Richard did, and they start staging stuff for the camera.

[uncdrew]

It is a huge learning experience, but at the same time flipping isn't that hard. It's a house.

After doing a few you learn what to look for, what to expect.



Hell, I should approach A&E about my flips. Most of the time these people don't even get inspections. Then they freak about the plumbing needing repairs, or some such. Granted if they buy off the courthouse steps (ie foreclosures) you can't really check. But still.

They make so many ridiculous mistakes.

However, I'd make a boring TV show. What do you know, he did his homework and it went smoothly and he made a few bucks. Big whoop.

The Montelongos rub me wrong, though I did like the brother. I wouldn't be surprised at all if there's some skeletons in their closets and David leaves. One show had some investor from California flying in and buying a house from them which seemed shady.

The New Haven group seemed on the up-and-up as well.

... and a friend of mine in South Carolina says he sees Trademark For Sale signs everywhere. So they're not selling everything in a day like they make it seem. And yes, Trademark is a much bigger company, with something like 50 employees.

[kdonnel]

Not surprised. I wouldn't be surprised if the Montelongo segments are faked as well. The "Flip This Lawsuit" page (a blog by a fan following the dispute between Trademark and A&E) discovered that the Montelongo's were actively soliciting actors to participate in a scene:
http://www.flipthislawsuit.com/2006/09/05/melina-montelongo-seeks-actor-for-flip-this-house/

Kind of explains partially why Trademark might have named their new show "The Real Deal."

I don't believe for a minute that all of the "drama" on the Trademark Flip This House shows was real either.

I remember the one episode where the dumpster ran into Richard's brothers car. The trouble is the car was not the same car that was shown as his earlier in the episode.

That turned me off to the show completely.

[SullyND]

I don't believe for a minute that all of the "drama" on the Trademark Flip This House shows was real either.

I remember the one episode where the dumpster ran into Richard's brothers car. The trouble is the car was not the same car that was shown as his earlier in the episode.

As with any of these "reality shows" I'm sure there is a certain amount of acting it up for the cameras, however I have noticed people switching cars quite frequently in the real deal - it appears that some times they're driving company cars.

[Sir_winealot]

The Montelongos version ticks me off just because you can tell that about 75% of the scenes are staged. Plus, he's an a-hole, though it has been funny watching him get fat.



From the Montelongo's website:

"Armando, enjoys sparring, Tae Kwon Do, running, weight lifting, boating and family barbeques. These ventures create sanity and balance in his hectic and fast paced life. "

Looks to me like he cut out that sparring, Tae Kwon Do, running and weightlifting and has been focusing primarily on the family barbeques.

[cthomp]

My SP went from The Real Deal to Property King to The Real Deal too. Thought that was kinda weird. Doesn't matter...important thing is I found the Trademark group again.
Richard Davis and the Trademark group do things the right way. He treats people fair and seperates family from business...and it show's.

I wonder what happened to Kevin? He was a character on the show. I remember him taking off and shooting shotguns with some of his crew. The time when he and Richard staked out the house that got vandalized. Funny stuff...

I'll reserve my remarks about the Atlanta & San Antonio teams since they're not kind. Except for this one thing about Angela (the real estate agent for Sam in Atl). I saw the one episode she did her flip on and she's got a lot to learn.

Now it's listed as "The Real Estate Pros"

[YamahaRick]

... a fraud? Really? Nah, it can't be ... fraud in real estate, for a TV show? :-)

ATLANTA - On an episode of A&E's popular reality series "Flip This House," Atlanta businessman Sam Leccima sits in front of a run-down house and calls buying and selling real estate his passion.

Now authorities and legal filings claim that Leccima's true passion was a series of scams that included faking the home renovations shown on the cable TV show and claiming to have sold houses he never owned.
'Flip This House' star accused of fraud (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070601/ap_en_tv/house_flipper_investigation)

[LoadStar]

Also being discussed in TV Talk: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=352071

[GoodSpike]

A lot of those TV shows that tell you how to buy real estate involve fraud. The people who follow them don't even realize it--until they get their asses sued.

[Snowman]

A lot of those TV shows that tell you how to buy real estate involve fraud. The people who follow them don't even realize it--until they get their asses sued.

Expound please.

[Snowman]

discovered that the Montelongo's were actively soliciting actors to participate in a scene:


I dunno. According to the ad, non-paid, blah, blah, blah. It sounds like they just wanted to ensure a good turn-out. It's no different than sports teams filling seats with temp workers. Unless they did something (like place fake bids), standing there isn't a crime and soliciting people to stand there shouldn't be either.

[GoodSpike]

They typically involve some sort of a scheme to get into the house with little or no money down (and not by borrowing the money from a bank to pay the seller--that's different).

I haven't watched any of those shows for years, so I don't remember any of the specific scams. But about two years ago I did go to a seminar on equity skimmers. The mentioned how the defendants would say: "It's part of the program" without understanding the legal implications. They'd basically just open up and disclose all they'd done, not realizing how much trouble they were in.

[bareyb]

It's guys like that that give Realtors a bad name... :p

There's plenty of honest realtors out there too, but these guys get all the publicity.

[Snowman]

It's guys like that that give Realtors a bad name... :p

There's plenty of honest realtors out there too, but these guys get all the publicity.

A "Realtor" is a member of a specific association. While these folks probably have their real estate licenses, I wouldn't even call them real estate agents. Most are only selling properties for their shell corp.

[LoadStar]

A lot of those TV shows that tell you how to buy real estate involve fraud. The people who follow them don't even realize it--until they get their asses sued.
I think you might not be familiar with what this particular show, making this a somewhat misplaced criticism.

"Flip This House" is not a how-to show or an infomercial. It's a "reality" show that purports to follow a couple of companies that do house-flipping professionally. Each episode follows the drama that occurs as the company fights budget and personnel issues as they attempt to complete the house on time to get it back on the market.

This show does not describe any sort of financial scam or scheme... in fact, they barely touch on the purchasing of the house at all. At best, they might indicate that the house was purchased at auction, but that's about the most in depth they'll get into that aspect.

The problem with this particular series of episodes is that despite being presented as a reality-based show, the main person involved, Sam Leccima, does not in fact have a real estate license (it was revoked), did not complete the work to flip the house as shown (most of the work was mocked up just for the camera) and did not in fact sell the property at all, let alone for the profit they claimed to get for the property.

[choccy]

But it's a "tv show". It's not a game show, there's no prize money.. what does it matter if they faked the whole thing? I don't understand what about faking a non-gameing/prize winning show could be at all criminal.

What next, sueing Paramount because they faked pictures of the Enterprise in orbit around some distant planet? :D

[Turtleboy]

But it's a "tv show". It's not a game show, there's no prize money.. what does it matter if they faked the whole thing? I don't understand what about faking a non-gameing/prize winning show could be at all criminal.

What next, sueing Paramount because they faked pictures of the Enterprise in orbit around some distant planet? :D

But it's more newsy, or documentary-y. It's not supposed to be scripted fiction.

It's closer to when Dateline rigged the trucks to blow up.

[bareyb]

But it's a "tv show". It's not a game show, there's no prize money.. what does it matter if they faked the whole thing? I don't understand what about faking a non-gameing/prize winning show could be at all criminal.



I get your point, but a case could also be made that it will lead innocent viewers to believe that they too could flip a house in the same way? I've seen a lot of people get into Real Estate with dreams of great riches only to leave within a year due to starvation.

Secondly, it's probably great "free advertising" for the Real Estate Agent in that it makes him look like a magician. Many may hire him based on the shows. So in that scenario it could be construed that he did this for "self aggrandizement" and personal profit. I won't be surprised if the guy gets away with a slap on the wrist though.

[GoodSpike]

I think you might not be familiar with what this particular show, making this a somewhat misplaced criticism..

I'd just assumed he held himself out as a professional flipper. Nothing wrong with being a professional flipper, but whey you hold yourself out to be one, showing others special tricks in buying (as opposed to common sense items), that's when you start pushing into the likelihood of being a con-artist.

[SullyND]

I'd just assumed he held himself out as a professional flipper. Nothing wrong with being a professional flipper, but whey you hold yourself out to be one, showing others special tricks in buying (as opposed to common sense items), that's when you start pushing into the likelihood of being a con-artist.

According to their latest show, their office did over 2,000 closings last year. Even if it's less than that it's clear that their buying process is not something the average person could do. I've always assumed, for instance, that they buy their properties with their own capital. They don't really cover the buying process at all...

[appleye1]

Yeah, I think it's pretty obvious that they have working capital that they are tapping to buy the properties. And it appears to me, at least for the episodes of FTH that I have seen, that the properties are being bought through plain old-fashioned negotiation, not through any type of get-rich-quick scheme.

I don't think of these guys as real estate agents anyway. They're more like impatient general contractors. Rather than wait for jobs to come in, they go out and get their own.

[Sir_winealot]

Also being discussed in TV Talk: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=352071


Leads me right back to this thread? :confused:

Were there 2 threads that got merged?

[LoadStar]

Leads me right back to this thread? :confused:

Were there 2 threads that got merged?
Yeah, apparently.

[classicX]

The last episode of 'The Real Deal' I recorded changed to 'The Property King' in my now playing list and even the season pass name. It is not back to 'The Real Deal'. Did anyone else notice this?

Dish lists the show title as "The Real Estate Pros." I really like seeing Richard Davis go off on contractors. :-)

[classicX]

According to their latest show, their office did over 2,000 closings last year. Even if it's less than that it's clear that their buying process is not something the average person could do. I've always assumed, for instance, that they buy their properties with their own capital. They don't really cover the buying process at all...

I believe this was on "The Real Deal," the new show with Trademark Properties out of South Carolina - they have never been implicated in the "Flip this House" scandal, even though they were first on Flip This House (and I believe they are the only legit ones on that show).

This could be why they left the show - finding out that the other subjects on the show were just con artists could make his company look bad too - people will assume that it's true of Trademark Properties just by association.