Heroes -05-14-07 "Landslide"

[Gregor]

here we go...

[Shaunnick]

You love to say that don't you. :)

[Gunnyman]

so are Sulu and Linderman good guys or bad guys with good intentions?

[EvilMidniteBombr]

That was a LAME beginning!

[Graymalkin]

But a hella ending.

Please, God, don't let anything happen that would keep me from watching next week's episode!

[pantherman007]

THAT is what television is all about.

6 days, 22 hours, and 56 minutes to go...

[cheesesteak]

I heard of getting punched in the head, but damn!

Boom.

[drew2k]

I heard of getting punched in the head, but damn!

Boom.But how did a wounded DL get up from the floor so quickly AND quietly? He was right in front of Linderman, and BLINK - suddenly he's BEHIND Linderman!

This is just such a great show. I'm stuck in a hotel watching LIVE (like a savage!), and right after Jessica catches up with Parkman, saying "Didn't I throw you out a window?", I just smiled and said to myself, "God, I love this show!"

Now I'm telling you all.

:)

Nice backstory on the Nakamura family. Anyone want to bet Papa Petrelli and Nakamura the Elder once fought together against evil, and that one day we'll see a flashback?

"You have taught me well, Father."

[Graymalkin]

Boy, plenty of folks bought the farm in this episode, eh?

Peter's right when he says he can't beat Sylar. Not by himself, anyway. He's going to need help.

And that, my friends, is one of the oldest lessons in superherodom -- teamwork always wins out against superior power.

[Graymalkin]

Unfortunately, another of the oldest lessons is, "The villain always escapes to scheme another day."

[drew2k]

Another good line (paraphrased):

Peter: "I'm not gonna wear a cape with my shirt tucked into my underwear on the outside of my pants."

God, I love this show.

:D

[Gunnyman]

I wonder if Sylar will monologue before he's stopped :D

[WinBear]

I could not believe they killed off Linderman! DL dying, I'm not too upset about, nor will I be surprised if he somehow recovers.

[MikeMar]

I hate how in the beginning they do a recap, THEN show previews for what you are ABOUT TO WATCH!!! I like to go in completly fresh and they do this junk!!! including the final scene where Sylar says "Boom" WTF!!!!!

But a great episode :)

[scottykempf]

Hiro: "villan!! Villan!! Villan!!"

(Check out the irony in that.)

[gastrof]

I wonder if Linderman's really gone?

With the ability to heal others, I wonder if he can do what Claire can do too?


By the way...

Does anyone think the episode order on SciFi's upcoming marathon is pretty...crummy?

[bonscott87]

Don't know if you guys heard but Heroes was renewed officially today for 24 episode plus a spinoff called "Heroes: Origins" of at least 6 episodes.

And yes, awesome episode.

[caslu]

Great episode... back in form after last week's slow ride. However, I was sad to hear that my favorite hottie (Candice) is probably as big as a house and it seems her good looks are nothing but an illusion.

[Shaunnick]

Great episode... back in form after last week's slow ride. However, I was sad to hear that my favorite hottie (Candice) is probably as big as a house and it seems her good looks are nothing but an illusion.

Did you ever see Shallow Hal? If you think she looks like the best thing in the world, who cares? :p

Edit to add: It's not as if you could feel the fat rolls. :eek: :up:

[stalemate]

I wonder if Linderman's really gone?

With the ability to heal others, I wonder if he can do what Claire can do too?With a chunk of his brain currently in DL's fist, I'm guessing no. :p

[terpfan1980]

Boy, plenty of folks bought the farm in this episode, eh?

Peter's right when he says he can't beat Sylar. Not by himself, anyway. He's going to need help.

And that, my friends, is one of the oldest lessons in superherodom -- teamwork always wins out against superior power.

Just remember, NO capes! :D :p
*The Incredibles reference

[gastrof]

With a chunk of his brain currently in DL's fist, I'm guessing no. :p


Claire grew back fingers to replace the ones Mr. Muggles ran off with. :p

[gastrof]

Just remember, NO capes! :D :p
*The Incredibles reference


How's about another reference?

We got flights. Maybe we'll get tights too!

[Billyh1026]

I hate how in the beginning they do a recap, THEN show previews for what you are ABOUT TO WATCH!!! I like to go in completly fresh and they do this junk!!! including the final scene where Sylar says "Boom" WTF!!!!!I've been saying this same thing. I friggin hate it!! They show previews during other shows or for the show by itself and they pop the freakin final scene right there!! My sentiment exactly..WTF!!!
I vote that those were the two best head trauma deaths in recent history. Recent being ohhhhhhhh twenty years or so...
When Candice sad she was fat, I guess we see she isn't exactly who she looks like. She's masking a bigger version of the real her.
Funniest line and look on a face goes to...Ando following Hiro's we went to the future you have to stop the bomb plea to Nathan.: 'yes, we went there...but I was already dead'.
Lamest part goes to Peter at the beginning: 'Claire, you know what you have to do! DO IT!! Oh wait..I'm good' BLAH!!
And what's up with DL having super human speed and inviso-power to sneak up on Linderman and brain snatch him??!! I'm calling BS on that one.

Good ep though setting up the finale nicely. Wonder what momma Petrelli's gonna plop out as her power.
Nathan and Sylar are gonna leave some mashed in concrete somewhere. Sylar will get away and set up next season. I'd still like to see the explosion tho.

[jsmeeker]

Cool episode.

We haven't seen Claire use her powers recently. Wonder if they will be used in the end to save the world?

[MFruchey]

...watching LIVE (like a savage!)

LOL <junior high> times infinite </junior high> :D

[RickStrobel]

What am I thinking now? YOUR LAST THOUGHT! BANG

[AJRitz]

There were a number of great moments in this episode.

Hiro's dad and Linderman USED TO work together - back when they gave Claire to HRG for safekeeping. But over the decade and a half since, they've parted ways. Hiro's dad is the good guy. Linderman follows the dark side of the force.

:up: for Nikki/Jessica figuring out how to control who needed to come out when.

:up: for DL offing Linderman with his last act. He was able to reach the back of Linderman's head because Linderman was stupid and took a step or two forward, leaving DL behind him.

:up: For the Tarantinoesque mexican-standoff over "the detection system"

[JYoung]

Great episode... back in form after last week's slow ride. However, I was sad to hear that my favorite hottie (Candice) is probably as big as a house and it seems her good looks are nothing but an illusion.


But she could also look like Charlize Theron. I'm just saying......

Woah, this was quite action packed.

Very chilling when Sylar said "Boom".

I wonder if Hiro slowed time to train.

[hefe]

:up: For the Tarantinoesque mexican-standoff over "the detection system"
I have to say though, that I usually hate those.

"You shoot me, and she dies."

If Bennett gets a bullet in the head, how could he kill the girl? :confused:

[whitson77]

I actually thought it did a decent job of building to the finale but it was a little ho-hum to me compared to the other episodes.

I hope Parkman is going to be okay :)

[atrac]

Wonder what momma Petrelli's gonna plop out as her power.


Isn't her power precognition (minus the need to paint it)? I got the impression that early on Peter had the power (absorbed from Mommy). In the first couple episodes didn't he say he always knew what would happen, and then even sketched a picture of him "flying" towards Nathan (just like it ended up happening?). Also, a few episodes ago Mommy Petrelli said something to the boys like "I already know what's going to happen."

This may have already been debunked in another thread..but honestly they're just getting too long to read these days. Got in on this one early. ;)

[JETarpon]

This may be stating the obvious, but Ando is Hiro's heart.

[Shakhari]

I wonder if Hiro slowed time to train.

His father would have to have the same power, since the two were interacting with each other. The only other time someone else has been able to interact with Hiro when he's stopped time was when Future Hiro talked to Peter on the train ... and that probably only happened because Peter absorbed his power.

Still, he skilled up on the sword awfully fast.

Add me to the list of those who think the beginning was lame, "Claire, kill me ... no, wait, I'm OK" ... give me a break.

[IndyJones1023]

Perhaps DL sunk thru the floor and popped up behind Linderman?

God, Candace is incredibly hot!

[Mikkel_Knight]

Perhaps DL sunk thru the floor and popped up behind Linderman?

God, Candace is incredibly hot!
That's what I figure happened with how he got the jump on Linderman...

[drew2k]

Very chilling when Sylar said "Boom".This kind of confused me a bit ... In the previous episode, Sylar told his mother he didn't want to blow up; he didn't want to kill "innocents". Yet in this scene, he's looking out over New York playing with his new ability, creating tiny fireballs in each hand, with a maniacal look on his face. Did he change his mind about the "innocents"?

Also, how did Sylar know where to be to intercept the prison transport truck to get Ted? He can't read minds, so he just guessed right?




By the way, one big flaw in this episode: New York doesn't have electronic voting yet. We still use the old-fashioned lever polling machines, which I guess would have made Micah a little ... less necessary. :)

[Rob Helmerichs]

By the way, one big flaw in this episode: New York doesn't have electronic voting yet. We still use the old-fashioned lever polling machines, which I guess would have made Micah a little ... less necessary. :)
Then again, AFAIK New York also doesn't have candidates who can fly, which I guess would have made the whole show a little...less necessary. :D

[drew2k]

Then again, AFAIK New York also doesn't have [b]candidates who can fly[b/], which I guess would have made the whole show a little...less necessary. :DDoes being "high" count as flying? We've had a few candidates like that! ;)

[yaddayaddayadda]

A couple of things that bothered me about this episode....

The Jessica "love of money over everything else"

I hate how in the beginning they do a recap, THEN show previews for what you are ABOUT TO WATCH!!! I like to go in completly fresh and they do this junk!!!

That's nothing compared to them freaking showing DL very much alive in the previews for next week when him possibly being dead is a cliffhanger for this episode

I don't buy the serial killer turning into a mass murderer. Serial killers are a fairly well known villain in our culture, and it seems very unnecessary for him to switch personality. Especially since he's driven to kill to absorb powers, what's in it for sylar to kill millions - unless he knows the whole Nathan become president, I kill Candace to absorb her shape shifting powers and kill Nathan and assume his identity to become president story.

[chavez]

i don't think linderman is dead. if he were that vulnerable, he wouldn't have been acting so casually... unless we're to believe that the mastermind behind all of this is a careless moron.

[cheesesteak]

Syler slices heads open. Claire got impaled in the head. Peter got impaled in the head. Linderman's got a great big hole in his head. There's some serious head trauma on this show.

[dimented]

A couple of things that bothered me about this episode....

The Jessica "love of money over everything else"



That's nothing compared to them freaking showing DL very much alive in the previews for next week when him possibly being dead is a cliffhanger for this episode

I don't buy the serial killer turning into a mass murderer. Serial killers are a fairly well known villain in our culture, and it seems very unnecessary for him to switch personality. Especially since he's driven to kill to absorb powers, what's in it for sylar to kill millions - unless he knows the whole Nathan become president, I kill Candace to absorb her shape shifting powers and kill Nathan and assume his identity to become president story.

I can very much see Sylar doing this. I think they set it up very nicely last episode. When he sees the future in the paintings he thinks it is him that blows up the future. He can't understand why he would do this so he goes to his mom to try to figure out what would drive him to do such a thng. In the midst of that he kills his mom, pushing him over the edge from just a serial killer to a homicidal maniac. I think they did a good job showing last week that what happened with his mom has really driven him a new direction.

[twm01]

... unless he knows the whole Nathan become president, I kill Candace to absorb her shape shifting powers and kill Nathan and assume his identity to become president story.

He does have Isaac's power, you know...

[twm01]

Wow! DL, Linderman, Ted, Eric Robert's character... anybody else I missed bite the dust???

Of course, we don't know which of these will last.

[twm01]

I have to say though, that I usually hate those.

"You shoot me, and she dies."

If Bennett gets a bullet in the head, how could he kill the girl? :confused:

Yeah, I thought the same thing. Why didn't he just pull the trigger, as his goal is to 'disable' the tracking system???

[trausch]

Linderman ain't dead. My guess is that the hot chick who can make illusions is letting DL and Jessica think that he is dead. They will also probably think that they have the kid as well.

[danterner]

This may be stating the obvious, but Ando is Hiro's heart.

Ah, excellent observation. Obvious to you, maybe, but it didn't occur to me until you mentioned it. Now that you have, though, I think you are absolutely right - Hiro will have to sacrifice Ando to vanquish Sylar.

[wprager]

This may be stating the obvious, but Ando is Hiro's heart.

+1

[TonyTheTiger]

I think I can honestly say I've NEVER seen anyone die in the way Linderman did!

For all you reality critics out there, yes, there were some corny moments, but overall, excellent show (it's a comic book after all!).

Can't wait to see how they wrap up this story arc next week.

[twm01]

I think I can honestly say I've NEVER seen anyone die in the way Linderman did!

You mean you've never seen someone put their bare hand through the back of someone else's skull??? Really???

[TAsunder]

<geek>Once while playing AD&D I tried to convince people that if I could phase in and out, I should be able to stick my hand in someone's brain and then phase in. I was ahead of my time, I guess!</geek>

The scene where sylar killed Ted... was that the goriest head slicing we've seen to date or what? The linderman scene was also quite gory.

Hiro's Dad and Linderman and Mama Petrelli, Papa Petrelli, and Claude all were working together in teh past. Linderman and Mama Petrelli went bad, killed Papa Petrelli, betrayed Claude... but what about Hiro's Dad? Have we seen him with linderman or anyone else since the flashback from a long time ago? Or have we only seen him with Hiro?

I kept waiting for hiro's dad to reveal he was the guy from those legends and had gone back in time to hone his skills.

Maybe his power is to instill knowledge into others??

[dimented]

Yeah, I thought the same thing. Why didn't he just pull the trigger, as his goal is to 'disable' the tracking system???

I think he was having second thoughts once he realised it was a little girl.

[TAsunder]

Mohinder already has doubts. I think parkman and HRG can convince him that they have to take the girl out of there to somewhere safe. Of course, that needs to be done carefully so sylar doesn't get to her.

[MasterCephus]

I kept wondering if Hiro's father had powers or not...

I totally think that Linderman, Papa & Mama Petrilli, and Daddy Hiro all worked together somehow...

One thing though:
Mama Petrilli told Nathan that his dad had powers...but he was weak. But in the comics, Papa Petrilli didn't have any powers, he just worked with/for Linderman after Vietnam...anyone have any ideas if Mama was just trying to motivate him?

[Sirius Black]

It was rather odd to have a samurai training montage in the middle of a major crisis but (as was previously mentioned) it is a comic book.

Sylar's initial intention last week was to avoid blowing up New York. However, he freaked out his mom while using his powers to make her feel as though she was in one of her snow globes. This freak out lead Sylar to kill his mom to death. :(

Once his mom died and Hiro failed to kill him, Sylar decided to turn on the evil and take Peter's place.

What would be real interesting to see is how the events thus far are different than the events that led to those shown in "Five Years Gone". Are things going exactly the same way? So far, I'd say yes.

Is the sword that Sulu gives to Hiro the sword that future Hiro uses or is it a different one?

[Sirius Black]

Mohinder already has doubts. I think parkman and HRG can convince him that they have to take the girl out of there to somewhere safe. Of course, that needs to be done carefully so sylar doesn't get to her.

I think it's safe to say that if the events of Five Years Gone do take place, Sylar doesn't reach The Walker Tracking System. If that weren't the case, why wouldn't future Nathan/Sylar be able to pinpoint exactly where Future Hiro, Peter, et al were?

[IndyJones1023]

LOL. My boss just mentioned the speculation that HRG used to work for O.W.I. (Organization Without Initials). Has this been mentioned here before? I think it's hysterical.

[Sadara]

Great episode!! I also wondered how Sylar knew where to find the truck that was transporting Ted. I could only think that he over heard something when they arrested Ted, he certainly can't read minds yet.

I couldn't help but laugh when I saw Matt and Jessica in the same space and she says, Didn't I throw you out a window? I thought that was pretty funny.

By the way, why didn't shape shifter, shape shift before she got out of the car? Seems to me it might be kind obvious doing it on the street, even in New York.

I did think we would see the blow up on this episdoe, oh well. Maybe next week.

[ping]

LOL. My boss just mentioned the speculation that HRG used to work for O.W.I. (Organization Without Initials). Has this been mentioned here before? I think it's hysterical.

Of course he worked for OWI/AWI. That's where that fan-created name comes from. (See Collision (http://heroeswiki.com/Episode:Collision))

[sp1dey]

A couple of things that bothered me about this episode....

The Jessica "love of money over everything else"

Agreed... I mean, didn't Linderman offer Jessica money for Mica's services before (which she adamantly turned down) what's different now?

Also, the whole Sulu turing Hiro into a Samurai in an hour. All the while I'm saying you have a character who can travel time. Why not send Hiro back to train with real Samurais for years only to return pony tail and all to the present.

I don't mean to pick apart an otherwise great show but it just felt a little rushed for my liking.

[jradford]

I kept wondering if Hiro's father had powers or not...

I totally think that Linderman, Papa & Mama Petrilli, and Daddy Hiro all worked together somehow...

Haven't they already told us this basically? Linderman and Petrilli clearly have been working together, and Hiro's dad and Linderman worked together when Hiro's dad was with The Company.

[JPA2825]

His father would have to have the same power, since the two were interacting with each other. The only other time someone else has been able to interact with Hiro when he's stopped time was when Future Hiro talked to Peter on the train ... and that probably only happened because Peter absorbed his power.

Still, he skilled up on the sword awfully fast.

Add me to the list of those who think the beginning was lame, "Claire, kill me ... no, wait, I'm OK" ... give me a break.

Anyone Hiro's touching gets to go along for the ride. Remember that when Ando came in after Hiro couldn't kill Sylar, Hiro reached out, grabbed Ando and then time travelled. Presumably, Hiro could have done that a few times with Dad to get enough training under his belt.

Begs the question though -- why wouldn't Hiro go back in time to before Ando left the Samurai store insteado of going looking for him?

[ping]

I kept wondering if Hiro's father had powers or not...

I totally think that Linderman, Papa & Mama Petrilli, and Daddy Hiro all worked together somehow...

One thing though:
Mama Petrilli told Nathan that his dad had powers...but he was weak. But in the comics, Papa Petrilli didn't have any powers, he just worked with/for Linderman after Vietnam...anyone have any ideas if Mama was just trying to motivate him?

Graphic novel:
Yep, I'm having a really hard time with that. "Dallas" was surprised by "Austin's" powers in a way that only a non-powered person would be. I guess he just hadn't discovered it yet?

[hefe]

I know most don't see the commercials, but did anyone else catch the Heroes promo in the commercial break about 3/4 through the show?

It was the actor that plays Peter Petrelli talking into the camera, and using his real name, so I don't think he was really supposed to be in character, but he had a stripe of blood across his forehead and dripping down the side of his face. I thought that was really odd to place that outside the show in that way. It seemed rather gratuitous.

[srs5694]

A couple of comments:


Concerning the swordfighting montage, my money's on Nakamura Senior having an accelerated-teaching power, although they certainly didn't make this explicit.
I need to re-watch the episode, but I'm not sure Mama Petrelli's comment about her husband having power is necessarily meant to suggest that he had the genetic mutation sort of power; it could just mean that he was politically connected and had money. OTOH, it could be that he developed/discovered a power at some time after the events depicted in the comic series, or that he neglected to mention his powers in the official report upon which the comic was based. The latter would be a bit of a dramatic cheat, IMHO, but the writers could always fall back on it if they needed to.

[twm01]

I think he was having second thoughts once he realised it was a little girl.
But, as he stated, it was the only way his little girl was going to ever be safe... seems to me if he was having second thoughts he wouldn't keep holding the gun on her.

[MikeMar]

But, as he stated, it was the only way his little girl was going to ever be safe... seems to me if he was having second thoughts he wouldn't keep holding the gun on her.

He's having second thoughts because the girl is STILL ALIVE :) no second thoughts and she would have died already.

[whitson77]

I wonder what Sulu's power is?

[wmm_16]

I wonder what Sulu's power is?


To go where no man has gone before.

[danterner]

I know most don't see the commercials, but did anyone else catch the Heroes promo in the commercial break about 3/4 through the show?

It was the actor that plays Peter Petrelli talking into the camera, and using his real name, so I don't think he was really supposed to be in character, but he had a stripe of blood across his forehead and dripping down the side of his face. I thought that was really odd to place that outside the show in that way. It seemed rather gratuitous.

I saw it and also thought it was weird, but I have a feeling it is something Milo Ventimiglia (sp?) proposed and wanted to do. Have you seen candid photos of him on the set? He's always mugging for the camera, making faces, etc. I don't think I've ever seen him look serious. I bet he thought this would be funny.

[dimented]

I saw it and also thought it was weird, but I have a feeling it is something Milo Ventimiglia (sp?) proposed and wanted to do. Have you seen candid photos of him on the set? He's always mugging for the camera, making faces, etc. I don't think I've ever seen him look serious. I bet he thought this would be funny.

I didn't see it. What did he say?

[ping]

To go where no man has gone before.

There's a crude joke in there somewhere (and may have been done already in the William Shatner roast--I can't remember).

[jsmeeker]

I saw it and also thought it was weird, but I have a feeling it is something Milo Ventimiglia (sp?) proposed and wanted to do. Have you seen candid photos of him on the set? He's always mugging for the camera, making faces, etc. I don't think I've ever seen him look serious. I bet he thought this would be funny.


he probably cut the promo during some down time while shooting the scene where his head gets sliced open by Sylar.



I was wondering exactly how Micha would rig the voting machines. Convenient that they are all electronic and netowrked, but I'm really surprised they made the victory a land slide. I would think that would raise suspicions. But I guess it's a minor nit. Nathan won. That's all that matters.

[unicorngoddess]

But how did a wounded DL get up from the floor so quickly AND quietly? He was right in front of Linderman, and BLINK - suddenly he's BEHIND Linderman!



I agree with the others, he had to have gone through the floor and around behind him. But I couldn't tell if he took out Linderman's brain or if he just squished it. If the brain is gone, I think any chance of regeneration is lost. I didn't even consider the possibility that it could be Candice, though. But I would think if it were her, any illusion she was creating would die with her.

In the scene where the FBI chick (never could remember her name then she was gone for half the season before magically appearing in last night's episode) captures Ted and then turns to thank Sylar for turning him in, you hear him say something to her and she turns around and he's gone. Did he go invisible? I don't remember him stealing Claude's power, so I got confused as to what happened there. And speaking of going invisible, when Ted was captured, we see Peter grab Claire and he goes invisible to run off with her, but it also appeared that Peter went through the other FBI agents rushing up on Ted. Has Peter met up with DL?

As for why he's having the change of heart and killing "innocents" I think its because after his mother's death he went even more psycho and her encouragement of becoming president, plus his vision to see the future made him realize that's what he has to do.

Is next week a two-hour finale?

[twm01]

he probably cut the promo during some down time while shooting the scene where his head gets sliced open by Sylar.

Didn't the cut go across his forehead? I thought it was supposed to be more diagonal across his face like future Peter.

[TAsunder]

In the scene where the FBI chick (never could remember her name then she was gone for half the season before magically appearing in last night's episode) captures Ted and then turns to thank Sylar for turning him in, you hear him say something to her and she turns around and he's gone. Did he go invisible?

No, he probably flew away using telekenesis.

we see Peter grab Claire and he goes invisible to run off with her, but it also appeared that Peter went through the other FBI agents rushing up on Ted. Has Peter met up with DL?

He bumped into people while running with claire. Not sure what you mean here.


As for why he's having the change of heart and killing "innocents" I think its because after his mother's death he went even more psycho and her encouragement of becoming president, plus his vision to see the future made him realize that's what he has to do.

Last week he embraced what he believed was his destiny after trying to fight it and failing to be killed by hiro.

[BitbyBlit]

I kept waiting for hiro's dad to reveal he was the guy from those legends and had gone back in time to hone his skills.

Maybe his power is to instill knowledge into others??

He has the power of the montage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zixAjmrmn6g).

[BitbyBlit]

Agreed... I mean, didn't Linderman offer Jessica money for Mica's services before (which she adamantly turned down) what's different now?

I think either the "everything else" was an implied "everything else but Micah" or Nikki's love for Micah was strong enough that she could exert some influence over Jessica even when not in total control.

[unicorngoddess]

He bumped into people while running with claire. Not sure what you mean here.



It was kind of a simultanious action that looked like the effect you see on shows/movies with ghost. I didn't get to watch in HD last night so all i saw was him and claire running away, going invisible through a crowd of people.

[ping]

I think either the "everything else" was an implied "everything else but Micah" or Nikki's love for Micah was strong enough that she could exert some influence over Jessica even when not in total control.

Actually, I'm pretty sure he didn't offer any money. He asked to borrow Micah as a favor, but it was only a courtesy (since he had already planned his alternate method for getting Micah).

[sp1dey]

Actually, I'm pretty sure he didn't offer any money. He asked to borrow Micah as a favor, but it was only a courtesy (since he had already planned his alternate method for getting Micah).

Whether he did or didn't... it just seemed a little forced for me. I mean, Jessica and DL travel across the country hell bent on getting Mica back and killing Linderman only to have her go gaga over the money.

Oh well, minor technicality.

I'm most bothered by Sulu's insta-Samurai training. Not to sound like a broken record, but you have a character who can travel through time, please use it for a more logical explanation of how he becomes a master swordsman.

[hefe]

I didn't see it. What did he say?
It wasn't a big deal, I just thought it was a bit odd.

Here it is...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1952566990692371333

[BitbyBlit]

Whether he did or didn't... it just seemed a little forced for me. I mean, Jessica and DL travel across the country hell bent on getting Mica back and killing Linderman only to have her go gaga over the money.

Jessica wanted to get Micah back, either because even she cared about Micah or because the Nikki personality had strong enough feelings to control her when it came to decisions about Micah. But that doesn't mean she couldn't be tempted to kill DL for money. I think the idea was that either way she would get Micah back, and the only remaining options were to kill Linderman or kill DL. Killing Linderman would give her revenge, and killing DL would give her cash.

[JETarpon]

His father would have to have the same power, since the two were interacting with each other. The only other time someone else has been able to interact with Hiro when he's stopped time was when Future Hiro talked to Peter on the train ... and that probably only happened because Peter absorbed his power.

That's not true. He interacts with Ando in stopped/slowed time all the time. Hiro just has to be touching the other person when the stopped time starts.

ETA: Long live the smeek!

[Shaunnick]

Anyone else notice Parkman didn't realize who the girl was? Also, Sylar has shown in the past he can move exceptionally fast. HRG will not kill the girl, we already know she is one of the people he will help go into hiding from the Episode "Five Years Gone"

Yep, Ando is going to die and New York is going to go BOOM!

[trausch]

I wonder what Sulu's power is?

To go where no man has gone before.

Sulu is homosexual so you can insert your own joke here.

[ScaryMike]

Great Ep.


My question: Why was HRG (http://heroeswiki.com/Mr._Bennet) able to hide the fact that the "Walker System (http://heroeswiki.com/Molly) " was a person from Parkman. Parkman (http://heroeswiki.com/Matt) can read minds, so it makes no sense as to how HRG kept that hidden.

[jsmeeker]

Anyone else notice Parkman didn't realize who the girl was?

Did he get a good chance to look at her before Mohinder knocked him out?

[BlueDuke]

Remember, that Hiro's dad said something like:
"I have been waiting for a Nakamura to ascend..."

That phrasing seems to imply something other than "I've been hoping you or your sister would get powers". I'm thinking he's been around a _lot_ longer than we've been led to believe.

[Shaunnick]

Great Ep.


My question: Why was HRG able to hide the fact that the "Walker System" was a person from Parkman. Parkman can read minds, so it makes no sense as to how HRG kept that hidden.

Thinking in Japanese again, or just mental discipline, whenever he thought about the girl he would just think out "Walker System" True, it would take a lot of effort, but he could do it.

[MasterCephus]

That phrasing seems to imply something other than "I've been hoping you or your sister would get powers". I'm thinking he's been around a _lot_ longer than we've been led to believe.

Are you saying like he's very very very old? That would be cool.

[Shaunnick]

Are you saying like he's very very very old? That would be cool.

That was my take on that as well.

[TonyTheTiger]

George Takei is homosexual so you can insert your own joke here.

FYP

NO WAY is Sulu homosexual!!!

[TR7spyder]

It was the actor that plays Peter Petrelli talking into the camera, and using his real name, so I don't think he was really supposed to be in character, but he had a stripe of blood across his forehead and dripping down the side of his face. I thought that was really odd to place that outside the show in that way. It seemed rather gratuitous.

And I thought: "What an awesome idea for a clever and simple Halloween costume!"

[mitkraft]

What am I thinking now? YOUR LAST THOUGHT! BANGEven though the whole thing was telegraphed by the camera is was a perfect way for him to get his just deserts.

But she could also look like Charlize Theron. I'm just saying..Or like Jennifer Love Hewitt...or Ali Larter...OR both at the same time :eek: :up: :up:

Isn't her power precognition (minus the need to paint it)? I got the impression that early on Peter had the power (absorbed from Mommy). In the first couple episodes didn't he say he always knew what would happen, and then even sketched a picture of him "flying" towards Nathan (just like it ended up happening?). Also, a few episodes ago Mommy Petrelli said something to the boys like "I already know what's going to happen."

This may have already been debunked in another thread..but honestly they're just getting too long to read these days. Got in on this one early. ;)Oh that's a good theory. I hadn't picked up on that but I like it!
This may be stating the obvious, but Ando is Hiro's heart.I thought the same thing. I does seem like its the obvious choice once you think about it.

His father would have to have the same power, since the two were interacting with each other. The only other time someone else has been able to interact with Hiro when he's stopped time was when Future Hiro talked to Peter on the train ... and that probably only happened because Peter absorbed his power.Nah, we haven't seen two heroes with the same power yet I'm pretty sure we aren't going to start now. I think this is classic overthinking. There are more than a few possibilities of how it could have been accomplished. I don't personally feel the need to have the writers pin down the exact one.

I think I can honestly say I've NEVER seen anyone die in the way Linderman did!Then you must not have watched "Angel". From the season with Jasmin:
Conner killed Jasmin in a similar manner. I can't remember if it was his fist or and object, but he snuck up behind her and went right through the back of her skull just like DL did.

The scene where sylar killed Ted... was that the goriest head slicing we've seen to date or what? The linderman scene was also quite gory.
.......
I kept waiting for hiro's dad to reveal he was the guy from those legends and had gone back in time to hone his skills.

Maybe his power is to instill knowledge into others??On your fist two points I thought the same thing. That scene was gorier than others and so was Linderman. Also, where they showed Isaac on the floor of his studio sans skull-cap was more gratuitous than in the past. Not that I'm bothered, just surprised.

Concerning the swordfighting montage, my money's on Nakamura Senior having an accelerated-teaching power, although they certainly didn't make this explicit.Nah, I think that's reaching. We don't know yet what his power is (or do we know if from the comics? Can't remember) but I'm pretty sure is isn't accelerated teaching or the same a Hero's.

To go where no man has gone before.Not that there's anything wrong with that :D

[cwoody222]

This kind of confused me a bit ... In the previous episode, Sylar told his mother he didn't want to blow up; he didn't want to kill "innocents". Yet in this scene, he's looking out over New York playing with his new ability, creating tiny fireballs in each hand, with a maniacal look on his face. Did he change his mind about the "innocents"?



This bugged me too. Last week he has doubts and we were almost supposed to feel bad for him. Today he's pure evil. What gives?

[dianebrat]

OTOH, it could be that he developed/discovered a power at some time after the events depicted in the comic series, or that he neglected to mention his powers in the official report upon which the comic was based.

Or, IMNSHO he could have had a power not obvious at first to be useful.

One of my favorite versions of the "not so obviously useful powers" was The Lost Room, where objects at first had powers that seemed useless, but later were very useful if you needed them for a certain situation

Diane

[alpacaboy]

I know most don't see the commercials, but did anyone else catch the Heroes promo in the commercial break about 3/4 through the show?

It was the actor that plays Peter Petrelli talking into the camera, and using his real name, so I don't think he was really supposed to be in character, but he had a stripe of blood across his forehead and dripping down the side of his face. I thought that was really odd to place that outside the show in that way. It seemed rather gratuitous.
Didn't see the promo, but yesterday, I was watching "Rocky Balboa" on DVD - and Rocky's son was the actor that plays Peter Petrelli !

[jsmeeker]

FYP

NO WAY is Sulu homosexual!!!


No way??

http://wizbangblog.com/images/2005/10/sulu.jpg


I dunno.. :D

[JYoung]

This bugged me too. Last week he has doubts and we were almost supposed to feel bad for him. Today he's pure evil. What gives?

What gives is that he snapped when his mother died.

Anyone else notice Parkman didn't realize who the girl was?

Matt's had a lot on his mind lately.

[unicorngoddess]

What gives is that he snapped when his mother died.



That's exactly how I took. He was craving his mom's acceptance in the fact that he was special...instead she turned on him and thought he was evil. Then she ends up dead, he has another vision and paints in in the floor with her blood and comes to the conclusion that it's his destiny.

[danterner]

This bugged me too. Last week he has doubts and we were almost supposed to feel bad for him. Today he's pure evil. What gives?

Here's a snippet from Greg Beeman's blog, on point (Beeman is a director/producer of Heroes). His blog is at http://gregbeeman.blogspot.com :

"One of the biggest ideas for this one that came from the writer’s room was to re-examine Sylar’s character. To have him have one last moment of doubt and one last shot at redemption. This would be viewed in relationship to his mother, so that we could begin to really understand how he had become the villain he was. Now, to be frank, this conceit spurred some healthy debate. I know my opinion, and some others, who hadn’t been involved in developing the story, questioned the need for it. Sylar felt like a pretty committed villain. Why would he have self-doubt? Why was it necessary to regress him to his previous incarnation? But Tim and the writers felt strongly that we needed to better understand this character, and that we had one last chance to fully round him out. They felt that Sylar had always acted methodically, killing the weak in order to become a superhuman. They added dialogue in his phone call scene with Suresh to illuminate the idea that he had no intention to kill millions of random people for no gain. This helped my issues. And any other doubts I had about the storyline vanished when we cast Ellen Green to play Sylar’s mother."

Note that there's no actual spoilery information in that quote, but since it's from a third party source I'm spoilering it just in an abundance of caution.

[dtle]

I was wondering exactly how Micha would rig the voting machines. Convenient that they are all electronic and netowrked, but I'm really surprised they made the victory a land slide. I would think that would raise suspicions. But I guess it's a minor nit. Nathan won. That's all that matters.

If the result was a small margin of victory, guess what happens next? RE-COUNT. Surely Linderman did not want the voting to be scrutinized.

[thedudeabides]

I don't think DL is dead. He wasn't dead in Future Hiro's future (HRG mentions him). As far as I'm concerned, that future is still going to happen, unless someone kills Sylar (or Peter)(or both).

On the other hand, the "Linderman Act" is mentioned, but not Linderman, which I took to mean that the law was named after him posthumously.

[naiLS1]

I don't think DL is dead. He wasn't dead in Future Hiro's future (HRG mentions him). As far as I'm concerned, that future is still going to happen, unless someone kills Sylar (or Peter)(or both).

On the other hand, the "Linderman Act" is mentioned, but not Linderman, which I took to mean that the law was named after him posthumously.

DL and Mica are both dead in the future. Niki and Peter talk about that in the 5 years gone episode.

[TAsunder]

DL and Mica are both dead in the future. Niki and Peter talk about that in the 5 years gone episode.

However, Sylar has DL's powers, which would seem difficult to obtain with him dead.

[Gerryex]

Hi ALL,

Did anyone catch that the same actress (Rean Sofer) plays Jack's sister-in-law on 24 and the wife of Nathan Petrelli!!

Gerry

[ping]

DL and Mica are both dead in the future. Niki and Peter talk about that in the 5 years gone episode.

In the dark future, Micah died in the explosion and, as pointed out already, DL is apparently another Sylar victim.

[Bryanmc]

Hi ALL,

Did anyone catch that the same actress (Rean Sofer) plays Jack's sister-in-law on 24 and the wife of Nathan Petrelli!!

Gerry
Only half a year ago. ;)

[Shaunnick]

DL and Mica are both dead in the future. Niki and Peter talk about that in the 5 years gone episode.

DL was originally someone put into hiding by HRG, but obviously later found and killed by Sylar. I know this because he is one of the people on Future Hiro's list. Also, it is never said by Peter that DL is dead, just that he is gone from Niki's life.

[TivoFan]

I have to say though, that I usually hate those.

"You shoot me, and she dies."

If Bennett gets a bullet in the head, how could he kill the girl? :confused:

Ummm... the Mexican Standoff is a staple of movies. Usually there are four or five people all aiming at one another, and the idea is that as soon as one of them fires, all of them will fire and everyone will die.

I think it's reasonable to assume that if Bennet gets shot he will either spasmodically pull the trigger or at least have a split second after hearing the gun fire to pull the trigger. Even if he doesn't, all he has to do is make Mohinder think that he has a pretty good chance of doing it. That ought to be enough to stay Mohinder's hand long enough for them to work out a deal.

[Shaunnick]

Ummm... the Mexican Standoff is a staple of movies. Usually there are four or five people all aiming at one another, and the idea is that as soon as one of them fires, all of them will fire and everyone will die.

I think it's reasonable to assume that if Bennet gets shot he will either spasmodically pull the trigger or at least have a split second after hearing the gun fire to pull the trigger. Even if he doesn't, all he has to do is make Mohinder think that he has a pretty good chance of doing it. That ought to be enough to stay Mohinder's hand long enough for them to work out a deal.

Which they will. Molly is another person on Future Hiro's list. :)

[TivoFan]

FYP

NO WAY is Sulu homosexual!!!


Well maybe "Sulu" isn't (I have serious doubts about that one though) but George Takei (the actor who played Sulu) is.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9845944/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Takei#Coming_out

[TreborPugly]

I hate how in the beginning they do a recap, THEN show previews for what you are ABOUT TO WATCH!!! I like to go in completly fresh and they do this junk!!! including the final scene where Sylar says "Boom" WTF!!!!!

But a great episode :)

That wasn't a preview. That was a brief visit to a possible future, using Hiro's powers.. :)

[That Don Guy]

Yep, Ando is going to die and New York is going to go BOOM!
Unless, of course, any of the writers watched Justice League (and wasn't this done in a way in 24 as well?), and came up with this scenario: just before whoever is supposed to explode does, Hiro (or Peter, after absorbing Hiro's power) grabs Nathan and freezes time; Nathan then grabs the human H-bomb and flies off to some unpopulated area, letting whoever it is go and returning to Hiro/Peter so he knows to start time forward again.

(Note that JL wasn't quite that "dramatic"; what happened was, just as a bomb was about to go off, Flash grabbed it and ran so fast with it that the explosion's energy dissipated over a long distance.)

-- Don

[TreborPugly]

This kind of confused me a bit ... In the previous episode, Sylar told his mother he didn't want to blow up; he didn't want to kill "innocents". Yet in this scene, he's looking out over New York playing with his new ability, creating tiny fireballs in each hand, with a maniacal look on his face. Did he change his mind about the "innocents"?


Um.. yeah! When his mother told him he could be President, and when she freaked out and he ended up killing her? He's now fully insane, with mama-messed-up-head, and no way back.

[hefe]

Ummm... the Mexican Standoff is a staple of movies. Usually there are four or five people all aiming at one another, and the idea is that as soon as one of them fires, all of them will fire and everyone will die.
Ummm... ok...doesn't mean I'm required to like it.
I think it's reasonable to assume that if Bennet gets shot he will either spasmodically pull the trigger or at least have a split second after hearing the gun fire to pull the trigger. Even if he doesn't, all he has to do is make Mohinder think that he has a pretty good chance of doing it. That ought to be enough to stay Mohinder's hand long enough for them to work out a deal.
I question that. I think it's most likely a cool plot device that has no basis in reality. Of course, I'm no doctor, so I could be wrong, but I'd assume taking a bullet (which is supersonic) to the brain would result in death before a person has a chance to hear, much less process, the sound of the shot.

[thedudeabides]

DL was originally someone put into hiding by HRG, but obviously later found and killed by Sylar. I know this because he is one of the people on Future Hiro's list. Also, it is never said by Peter that DL is dead, just that he is gone from Niki's life.

I just remember the part where HRG says he's going to round up the people who he put into hiding, including DL.

Point is, he doesn't die as a result of Linderman's gunshot wound. We have no reason to believe the "future" has been altered at this point.

[TonyD79]

I just remember the part where HRG says he's going to round up the people who he put into hiding, including DL.

Point is, he doesn't die as a result of Linderman's gunshot wound. We have no reason to believe the "future" has been altered at this point.

He doesn't?

BTW, we *do* know that teh future has been altered. Claire was KILLED by Sylar in the old timeline but she is alive in the future that we saw.

If that timeline changed, why insist that the future is fixed?

[MikeMar]

I think it would be stupid if the future we saw was the one that happens. Why show it then? kinda a big spoiler then :)

I think it will all be changed, big or small in parts

[hefe]

I think it would be stupid if the future we saw was the one that happens. Why show it then? kinda a big spoiler then :)

I think it will all be changed, big or small in parts
If they showed the actual future without spoiler tags, I'm gonna be so pissed...

[catcard]

If they showed the actual future without spoiler tags, I'm gonna be so pissed...


:D


But I can see that the future we saw is not necessarily what will really happen.

[unicorngoddess]

*This episodes contains spoilers. Please highlight if you would like to view*

Honestly, I don't think there's anything that's been done so far to change DL's future. So it would seem that he wasn't killed this way in the original future and they haven't appeared to have done anything to change his current future either. So I would think it's possible he could still be alive. I couldn't see why he didn't just reach in and pull the bullet out of himself or something.

[thedudeabides]

*This episodes contains spoilers. Please highlight if you would like to view*

Honestly, I don't think there's anything that's been done so far to change DL's future. So it would seem that he wasn't killed this way in the original future and they haven't appeared to have done anything to change his current future either. So I would think it's possible he could still be alive. I couldn't see why he didn't just reach in and pull the bullet out of himself or something.

Exactly. The future we saw a few episodes ago was the future that is going to occur, unless Sylar (or Peter) is prevented from blowing up NYC. That was the future, even though Claire had been saved and was alive in that future. DL was not killed by Linderman's bullet in that future, because HRG made a specific reference to helping him post-apocolypse.

Anyway, of course they are going to save NYC, so that future WILL be changed. My point is that it hasn't been changed yet, at least from what I've seen.

[Shaunnick]

I just remember the part where HRG says he's going to round up the people who he put into hiding, including DL.

Point is, he doesn't die as a result of Linderman's gunshot wound. We have no reason to believe the "future" has been altered at this point.

Its cool, I'm not disagreeing with you, if anything reinforcing the point. :)

[srs5694]

I was wondering exactly how Micha would rig the voting machines. Convenient that they are all electronic and netowrked, but I'm really surprised they made the victory a land slide. I would think that would raise suspicions.

If I were Micah, I'd have done something to make the results suspicious, but perhaps not immediately so. For instance, register all of Nathan's votes on specific machines, with 100% counts for him on those machines and no votes for him on others; or perhaps a regular repeating pattern of votes (Nathan-Nathan-Otherguy-Nathan-Nathan-Otherguy-etc.). Of course, there's no reason to think that Micah is strongly motivated to foil Linderman in this way, so I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't do this.

Incidentally, did anybody else notice the vote totals shown on TV in the scene after the vote-rigging scene? Nathan was actually ahead in the polling, presumably before the vote-rigging results entered the system. IIRC, he had 36% of the vote and the next-highest candidate had 31% or 32%, with two others pulling in still lesser amounts. (The total came to 100%.) In most (or maybe even all) areas of the US, that'd make Nathan the winner, since we don't generally do runoffs in the US; whoever gets the most votes wins, even if it's not a clear majority. A little later in the scene the tallies changed, giving Nathan something in the vicinity of 64% of the vote. Of course, these were presumably early and incomplete results, but it's starting to look as if Nathan would have won even without the vote-rigging.

I agree with the others, he had to have gone through the floor and around behind him.

I re-watched the episode recently, and I disagree. Most of the camera shots in the relevant period were close-ups, and there were cuts between Linderman and Niki, so it's hard to judge how they moved; however, Linderman definitely did take several steps between shooting D.L. and D.L.'s killing Linderman. IMHO, it's entirely plausible that Linderman shifted his position enough that he put D.L. behind him. I call this bad directing or editing to obscure this point; it's certainly not a plot hole or anything that needs explaining beyond the bad choice of camera angles. (Bad, at least, in the sense of making it clear what happened; they probably wanted close-ups for dramatic purposes.)

re: Hiro and others interacting when time is frozen

That's not true. He interacts with Ando in stopped/slowed time all the time. Hiro just has to be touching the other person when the stopped time starts.

When? I can't recall a single instance of this, but I can recall many instances in which Hiro is the only person who's not frozen.

[JETarpon]

When? I can't recall a single instance of this, but I can recall many instances in which Hiro is the only person who's not frozen.

Any time Hiro touches Ando and they both disappear, they are both not frozen.

Last episode, when Hiro failed to kill Sylar, Ando comes in, Hiro reaches back to touch him, and they both disappear. Time stopped for everybody except for the two of them.

[balboa dave]

If I were Micah, I'd have done something to make the results suspicious, but perhaps not immediately so. For instance, register all of Nathan's votes on specific machines, with 100% counts for him on those machines and no votes for him on others; or perhaps a regular repeating pattern of votes (Nathan-Nathan-Otherguy-Nathan-Nathan-Otherguy-etc.). Of course, there's no reason to think that Micah is strongly motivated to foil Linderman in this way, so I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't do this.Really? That's a lot to expect for a 10 year old who had less than a minute to learn what he had to do, then figure out how to do it.

[smak]

He doesn't?

BTW, we *do* know that teh future has been altered. Claire was KILLED by Sylar in the old timeline but she is alive in the future that we saw.

If that timeline changed, why insist that the future is fixed?

There are 3 timelines.

1. Sylar kills Claire, bomb explodes.
2. Peter saves Claire, Hiro doesn't kill Sylar, bomb explodes.
3. Next week's episode.

It seems there were two parts to fix the timeline. Save Claire so Sylar doesn't have her powers, and kill Sylar.

The first time, Claire isn't saved. The second time, Sylar isn't killed. We will see if the 3rd time's the charm.

-smak-

[madscientist]

Man! Something happened on Monday night to my recordings; between 9:45 and 9:55 I got nothing... the recording just skips. I had both 24 and Heroes with big gaps. In Heroes I got left when Parkman and HRG are getting shot at in the hotel, and I came back in when Jessica is being tempted with money by Linderman. So much happened in between!

I went to the nbc.com website to watch the episode online, but it doesn't work; I get to a screen which shows 6 "Parts" along the bottom, but when I click on them nothing happens. I tried both IE and FireFox, on both Linux and (breaking down here!) my wife's Windows system. Same thing in all of them.

Does this work for anyone else? I missed all kinds of critical things in those 10 minutes!

[Rob Helmerichs]

Really? That's a lot to expect for a 10 year old who had less than a minute to learn what he had to do, then figure out how to do it.
Well, a ten-year-old super-genius, but I agree that he probably had no motivation to foil Lindeman.

[TAsunder]

A little later in the scene the tallies changed, giving Nathan something in the vicinity of 64% of the vote. Of course, these were presumably early and incomplete results, but it's starting to look as if Nathan would have won even without the vote-rigging.

It's hard to say. You'd think that the entire district would be using the same voting mechanism, thus everyone would be electronic. Since the reporting wasn't instantaneous, perhaps the 36% was just a reflection of the votes that micah rigged starting to be "counted".

[HIHZia]

Ah, excellent observation. Obvious to you, maybe, but it didn't occur to me until you mentioned it. Now that you have, though, I think you are absolutely right - Hiro will have to sacrifice Ando to vanquish Sylar.

I thought Ando was the Princess in that story. :p

[ping]

I really had to ignore a lot on the election (especially since I volunteer as a poll worker in South Florida).

Before Micah found out the machines were networked (which, by the way, is a really stupid thing to do, even if it were possible), Candice said they were going to go to 12 more precincts. Oh, really? 12 out of what (I don't know the exact number, but there are over 6,000 in NYC and over 1,200 in Manhattan alone)? I don't think they could have caused a landslide if they generated one Nathan vote for every registered voter in 13 precincts (which itself would have been suspicious when all other precincts would have had 40-60% turnout).

Also, those returns Nathan was watching? Those were exit polls, not official returns. As far as I know, Micah has no effect on exit polls*. It's going to look really strange when the exit polls are so far off from the official returns.

* I suppose he could, assuming they were electronically counted, but it appears he needs to touch machines to "talk to them", so he'd need to break into the news organizations collecting the exit polls.

[jradford]

I really had to ignore a lot on the election (especially since I volunteer as a poll worker in South Florida).

Before Micah found out the machines were networked (which, by the way, is a really stupid thing to do, even if it were possible), Candice said they were going to go to 12 more precincts. Oh, really? 12 out of what (I don't know the exact number, but there are over 6,000 in NYC and over 1,200 in Manhattan alone)? I don't think they could have caused a landslide if they generated one Nathan vote for every registered voter in 13 precincts (which itself would have been suspicious when all other precincts would have had 40-60% turnout).

Also, those returns Nathan was watching? Those were exit polls, not official returns. As far as I know, Micah has no effect on exit polls*. It's going to look really strange when the exit polls are so far off from the official returns.

* I suppose he could, assuming they were electronically counted, but it appears he needs to touch machines to "talk to them", so he'd need to break into the news organizations collecting the exit polls.
Good points, especially about the exit polls. BOOOOO! :p

[EvilMidniteBombr]

Sorry, I am just catching up on this thread and here are a few points that I wanted to comment on.
Great episode!! I also wondered how Sylar knew where to find the truck that was transporting Ted. I could only think that he over heard something when they arrested Ted, he certainly can't read minds yet.
If you recall, when Peter and Claire were trying to get out of the city, Peter mentioned that this was the fastest way out of the city. I assume Sylar knew that and gambled that the FBI would rush Nukeboy out of there as fast as they could and take that route.

I wonder what Sulu's power is?
To go where no man has gone before.
LOL! Good one!

I don't think DL is dead. He wasn't dead in Future Hiro's future (HRG mentions him). As posted previously, in Five Years Gone, I think that Niki mentions that DL was dead. If that wasn't enough then I think we were to assume that Sylar killed him and took his power. Especially after Sylar/Nathan reached through the big heavy metal door and snatched Peter back through it.

I couldn't see why he didn't just reach in and pull the bullet out of himself or something.
Simply removing the bullet does not repair the damage done by that bullet. Depending on what type of ammunition (calliber, speed, ball or hollowpoint) it is there could be serious internal damage and bleeding. .

Also, those returns Nathan was watching? Those were exit polls, not official returns. As far as I know, Micah has no effect on exit polls*. It's going to look really strange when the exit polls are so far off from the official returns.

* I suppose he could, assuming they were electronically counted, but it appears he needs to touch machines to "talk to them", so he'd need to break into the news organizations collecting the exit polls.
Exit polls are meaningless. Just ask John Kerry. He was way ahead early in the day back in '04. According to exit polls.

As far as counting exit polls, I don't think it's anything more technical than some reporter standing outside a polling place asking people who they voted for and putting tally marks on a sheet of paper. Therefore, Micah would have no effect on them. But, that's all irrelevant to the show. (Sidebar, your honor? Depending on what area these polls were taken, it could be scewed towards one candidate more than the other. If they are really strong in that area or not.)

[TAsunder]

Before Micah found out the machines were networked (which, by the way, is a really stupid thing to do, even if it were possible), Candice said they were going to go to 12 more precincts. Oh, really? 12 out of what (I don't know the exact number, but there are over 6,000 in NYC and over 1,200 in Manhattan alone)? I don't think they could have caused a landslide if they generated one Nathan vote for every registered voter in 13 precincts (which itself would have been suspicious when all other precincts would have had 40-60% turnout).

Nathan was running for congress, specifically the 14th district I believe. That's a small section of new york city only. I don't know if the voting precincts are divided in the same way, but there are probably about a dozen or so police precincts in that region.

Also, those returns Nathan was watching? Those were exit polls, not official returns. As far as I know, Micah has no effect on exit polls*. It's going to look really strange when the exit polls are so far off from the official returns.

During my local congressional elections, they tend to show actual results with % of precincts reporting and do not show exit poll figures.

[unicorngoddess]

If you recall, when Peter and Claire were trying to get out of the city, Peter mentioned that this was the fastest way out of the city. I assume Sylar knew that and gambled that the FBI would rush Nukeboy out of there as fast as they could and take that route.

Speaking of this, it made me wonder why Peter didn't just fly out with Claire...seems like that would have been the fastest way.


Simply removing the bullet does not repair the damage done by that bullet. Depending on what type of ammunition (calliber, speed, ball or hollowpoint) it is there could be serious internal damage and bleeding. .
True. For some reason I was just thinking his body would heal or resolidify after the bullet was removed. Like he can walk through walls and stuff without any internal damage, why can't he just remove a bullet and not have any internal damage. I have to say though, when he first jumped in front of the bullet I thought, how stupid is that, it's just gonna go right through him.

[ping]

Nathan was running for congress, specifically the 14th district I believe.

30th, actually (convenient that New York only has 29 representatives ;))

But even if all 30 were "small sections of New York City" (completely ignoring the rest of the state), that would be an average of 200 precincts per representative. Sorry, but changing the results in 7% of precincts, even the largest ones, isn't going to cut it.

[ping]

During my local congressional elections, they tend to show actual results with % of precincts reporting and do not show exit poll figures.

I find it difficult to believe they produce actual results before the polls close. In any case, it even said "Exit Polls" on the screen shot.

http://heroeswiki.com/Image:Election_returns.jpg


I agree that exit polls have a significant margin of error, but if they showed him getting 36% of the vote and he ended up with twice that, I think it would raise suspicion.

[TAsunder]

Where did you find that there are over a thousand precincts in new york? Are you talking about polling places?

It did show exit polls at one point, but later on in the evening they reported actual results. 36% may have been during the "counting" phase. What time of day was it?

[TonyTheTiger]

Well maybe "Sulu" isn't (I have serious doubts about that one though) but George Takei (the actor who played Sulu) is.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9845944/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Takei#Coming_out


I know - that's why I made the statement ;)

As for the swashbuckling pic - different use of the word "gay". :)

[ping]

Where did you find that there are over a thousand precincts in new york? Are you talking about polling places?

Over a thousand in Manhattan. Over six thousand in the city. But I see that polling locations can have multiple precincts (what NYC calls "Election Districts") in them, so maybe Candice was just talking about polling locations when she was saying precincts. Even so, 13 seems a very small number of places to go to rig this. Really, though, I don't think I know enough about elections in NYC to be sure on this one.

It did show exit polls at one point, but later on in the evening they reported actual results. 36% may have been during the "counting" phase. What time of day was it?

It seemed really bright outside. Here polls close at 7pm, but I see they close at 9pm in NYC. And remember this is November.

[hapdrastic]

Any time Hiro touches Ando and they both disappear, they are both not frozen.

Last episode, when Hiro failed to kill Sylar, Ando comes in, Hiro reaches back to touch him, and they both disappear. Time stopped for everybody except for the two of them.

Time didn't stop for anybody - Hiro didn't stop time, he teleported. We've seen him do that on several occasions now, but (with the exception of Peter - who is a big exception) we've never seen Hiro stop time for him *and someone else*. Teleporting yes, time-travel yes, time-stopping no. That's not to say he can't do it, but we haven't seen it done.

[ElJay]

It's going to look really strange when the exit polls are so far off from the official returns.
It is? I seem to recall living through this exact scenario, and the discrepancy was explained away as a difference in the eagerness between the voters for the different candidates. People voting for candidate A were too embarrassed, too hurried, or whatever and would not respond to the exit pollers, while those voting for candidate B were much more likely to let the pollers know how they had voted. Candidate A "won" the election even though candidate B was showing a lead in the exit polls.

[TAsunder]

ping, I stand corrected. Wouldn't it be interesting if the election rigging really were unnecessary? Of course, petrelli would probably still have needed the linderman money, but not the rigging.

[srs5694]

Any time Hiro touches Ando and they both disappear, they are both not frozen.

That's teleportation, which is different from time-freezing -- unless perhaps you're arguing that Hiro "teleported" from Japan to NYC by freezing time and walking (and swimming) all the way. (I don't know what the analogous thing would be when Hiro teleports forward or backward in time.)

Last episode, when Hiro failed to kill Sylar, Ando comes in, Hiro reaches back to touch him, and they both disappear. Time stopped for everybody except for the two of them.

There was teleportation in that scene; see above. If you're referring to the fact that Ando burst into the room prior to the teleportation, note that time was unfrozen at that point -- Sylar was moving, talking, and using his powers. Even if you suppose that Sylar absorbed Hiro's power, Sylar's mother fell to the floor, and Hiro never touched her, so it's clear that Hiro's time freeze broke down completely.

All that said, it's possible that Hiro could freeze time for another person; I'm just saying that it's never been shown on screen. Whether it works this way is something for the writers to decide, and AFAIK they haven't made that decision clear, at least as of the latest episode.

[EvilMidniteBombr]

Speaking of this, it made me wonder why Peter didn't just fly out with Claire...seems like that would have been the fastest way.
Exactly what I thought!


True. For some reason I was just thinking his body would heal or resolidify after the bullet was removed. Like he can walk through walls and stuff without any internal damage, why can't he just remove a bullet and not have any internal damage. If he can make himself more dense then I can see how he could at least stop some bleeding, but again it comes to what damage the bullet did. Some bullets do far more damage from the shockwave from the bullet hitting the body mass than the actual projectile.

I have to say though, when he first jumped in front of the bullet I thought, how stupid is that, it's just gonna go right through him.Again, me too!

[ping]

It is? I seem to recall living through this exact scenario, and the discrepancy was explained away as a difference in the eagerness between the voters for the different candidates. People were embarrassed (or whatever) to be voting for candidate A and would not respond to the exit pollers, while those voting for candidate B were much more likely to let the pollers know how they had voted. Candidate A "won" the election even though candidate B was showing a lead in the exit polls.

I assume you're talking about Kerry/Bush? That's a case where exit polls differed from official results by a few percentage points (and even then it caused significant investigation). With Nathan we're talking about an exit poll that gives him 36% or so, followed by a landslide official result.

[EvilMidniteBombr]

I assume you're talking about Kerry/Bush? That's a case where exit polls differed from official results by a few percentage points (and even then it caused significant investigation). With Nathan we're talking about an exit poll that gives him 36% or so, followed by a landslide official result.
But early in the day, the polls showed Kerry way ahead of Bush. This changed after the precincts started actually reporting results. I think that is the point that was trying to be made.

[ping]

But early in the day, the polls showed Kerry way ahead of Bush. This changed after the precincts started actually reporting results. I think that is the point that was trying to be made.

No, that's what I'm saying: he was never "way ahead". He was ahead, maybe by as much as 52% to 48%, but never "way ahead".

[catcard]

Talking about Bush on the Heroes thread! How ironic is that?

[EvilMidniteBombr]

Talking about Bush on the Heroes thread! How ironic is that?
About 1/2 as ironic as talking about Kerry in a Heroes thread. :)

[JETarpon]

Time didn't stop for anybody - Hiro didn't stop time, he teleported. We've seen him do that on several occasions now, but (with the exception of Peter - who is a big exception) we've never seen Hiro stop time for him *and someone else*. Teleporting yes, time-travel yes, time-stopping no. That's not to say he can't do it, but we haven't seen it done.

When he touched Ando and they disappeared, he did not just teleport. When they reappeared in the store they were in different positions and the sword was broken, with Hiro holding both pieces. That could not have happened if they teleported, but could have happened if they stopped time, moved to another location, and restarted time.

[bryhamm]

Time didn't stop for anybody - Hiro didn't stop time, he teleported. We've seen him do that on several occasions now, but (with the exception of Peter - who is a big exception) we've never seen Hiro stop time for him *and someone else*. Teleporting yes, time-travel yes, time-stopping no. That's not to say he can't do it, but we haven't seen it done.


Did Ando "freeze" way back when Hiro was first learning about his power and he froze time when a car accident was happening in order to save someone?

[bryhamm]

When he touched Ando and they disappeared, he did not just teleport. When they reappeared in the store they were in different positions and the sword was broken, with Hiro holding both pieces. That could not have happened if they teleported, but could have happened if they stopped time, moved to another location, and restarted time.


I don't think so. Does that mean that he stops time and then "moved" forward in time 5 years? Wrong.

He teleports to a specific location AND time. Usually his teleportation is simply to a new location and it is current time. But he has teleported to different points in time as well.

[hapdrastic]

When he touched Ando and they disappeared, he did not just teleport. When they reappeared in the store they were in different positions and the sword was broken, with Hiro holding both pieces. That could not have happened if they teleported, but could have happened if they stopped time, moved to another location, and restarted time.

I think you're over thinking it...the implication is that they teleported, if they ended up in different positions then I just call that bad editing. The way the show showed it, they disappeared and then reappeared in another location, I can't see that they expected viewers to assume that they stopped time and walked downstairs to hide rather than teleported out of there.

[JETarpon]

I don't think so. Does that mean that he stops time and then "moved" forward in time 5 years? Wrong.

He teleports to a specific location AND time. Usually his teleportation is simply to a new location and it is current time. But he has teleported to different points in time as well.

He can move through time. He can teleport. He can do both. I agree.

But in the last episode, when he and Ando disappeared from the apartment and reappeared in the store, it was not just teleportation because they changed positions. The sword was broken and Hiro was holding it when they reappeared. If they had just teleported they would have been in the same position when they reappeared, and the end of the sword would have, at that moment, broken and fallen. That is not what happened. The only explanation for the change in position is that time stopped for all but Hiro, Ando, and the sword.

Or they just screwed up.

[hapdrastic]

Did Ando "freeze" way back when Hiro was first learning about his power and he froze time when a car accident was happening in order to save someone?

They were separated at the time, trying to find the little girl who was about to be hit by a truck in order to save her. I'm pretty sure that when Hiro stopped time he was by himself and they didn't show Ando until after time started again.

[hapdrastic]

He can move through time. He can teleport. He can do both. I agree.

But in the last episode, when he and Ando disappeared from the apartment and reappeared in the store, it was not just teleportation because they changed positions. The sword was broken and Hiro was holding it when they reappeared. If they had just teleported they would have been in the same position when they reappeared, and the end of the sword would have, at that moment, broken and fallen. That is not what happened. The only explanation for the change in position is that time stopped for all but Hiro, Ando, and the sword.

Or they just screwed up.

Again I'm going to go with the "just screwed up" view. Unless Hiro's teleportation works like Star Trek's transporter and there's this mist-filled void that they temporarily visit while transporting (during which Hiro and Ando could have easily moved around and picked up sword pieces). But I think Occam's Razor would say that the direction/editing was just off there.

[Mr. Soze]

What would be real interesting to see is how the events thus far are different than the events that led to those shown in "Five Years Gone". Are things going exactly the same way? So far, I'd say yes. Except Sylar as Nathan went through a wall a la DL, but Sylar didn't kill DL.

[ping]

Except Sylar as Nathan went through a wall a la DL, but Sylar didn't kill DL.

His status at the moment is dying, not dead. He may still live for Sylar to get to him.

[bryhamm]

Except Sylar as Nathan went through a wall a la DL, but Sylar didn't kill DL.


Or that the timeline that was shown has altered. Maybe not drastically (since it still looks like someone will blow up), but maybe slightly.

People need to stop hanging on to what we saw in 5 years Gone. That was the possibility of things to come had nothing been done from the point that Hiro teleported into the future. It does not appear that anything significant has changed yet, but I presume that the finale will be the real alteration of that timeline.

[JETarpon]

People need to stop hanging on to what we saw in 5 years Gone. That was the possibility of things to come had nothing been done from the point that Hiro teleported into the future. It does not appear that anything significant has changed yet, but I presume that the finale will be the real alteration of that timeline.

But after Hiro teleported back from the future, he had zero interaction with Jessica, DL, and Linderman. So the scene that played out in Linderman's office should have also played out in in the 5-years-gone present.

[srs5694]

But in the last episode, when he and Ando disappeared from the apartment and reappeared in the store, it was not just teleportation because they changed positions. The sword was broken and Hiro was holding it when they reappeared.

You're confusing two different teleportation events:


Hiro and Ando are in Isaac's loft, hiding behind a painting, when Sylar hears their heartbeats. Sylar telepathically flings the painting aside, revealing nothing; Hiro has teleported (taking Ando) to the store. We don't actually see them disappear, but we do see them appear, so we don't know if they reappeared in exactly the same positions in which they disappeared, but they did appear in crouched positions, so there's no evidence of movement while teleporting and every reason to believe that Hiro didn't freeze time with Ando and walk to the store -- else why would they have appeared crouched over?
Hiro has confronted Sylar in Sylar's mother's apartment. Ando bursts in, Hiro grabs Ando, and the two of them (with the sword) teleport to Isaac's loft. We see them disappear and reappear in different positions.


I'd argue that the director/continuity people simply screwed up in case #2; if they'd meant for it to be a shared time-freeze with movement, they would have shown it as such, as they have in most other time-freeze instances. Plus which, if Hiro had frozen time (with Ando included in the time-freeze), they would have had the discussion about the broken sword on the walk to Isaac's loft rather than after getting there. Plus, why go to Isaac's loft? It seems an odd walk-to destination, but it makes some sense for teleportation (it being a location with which Hiro was already familiar). If it were a time-freeze, why not undo it before reaching the loft, or just after entering the door (they appeared in the middle of the room). In sum, there are at least as many problems interpreting this as a time freeze as there are interpreting it as teleportation. The latter interpretation just entails a real-world continuity screwup; the former requires a lot of explanations for bizarre in-story behaviors.

Back to the main point: There's no evidence that Hiro can include anybody else in a time-freeze, with the exception of Peter Petrelli (and by extension, anybody with powers similar to Peter's or Hiro's own).

[JETarpon]

You're confusing two different teleportation events:



You're right. I did have them confused.

[EvilMidniteBombr]

As for having the two pieces of sword in his hand... It's possible that he froze time, grabbed the pieces, then teleported with Ando. That doesn't explain why he grabbed Ando first, other than just a reflexive action to keep his friend out of Sylar's reach.


Sounds good to me at least.

[Shakhari]

Any time Hiro touches Ando and they both disappear, they are both not frozen.

Last episode, when Hiro failed to kill Sylar, Ando comes in, Hiro reaches back to touch him, and they both disappear. Time stopped for everybody except for the two of them.

Hiro isn't stopping time in those cases, he's teleporting in space.

[Shakhari]

Something which occurred to me today was the amazing coincidence that Hiro's father happened to at the only samurai sword repair shop in NYC at the very moment that Hiro came in to get his broken sword fixed.

How did he know that Hiro would be there?

[jradford]

Something which occurred to me today was the amazing coincidence that Hiro's father happened to at the only samurai sword repair shop in NYC at the very moment that Hiro came in to get his broken sword fixed.

How did he know that Hiro would be there?
I think the point was that it wasn't a coincidence at all.

[bryhamm]

You're confusing two different teleportation events:


Hiro and Ando are in Isaac's loft, hiding behind a painting, when Sylar hears their heartbeats. Sylar telepathically flings the painting aside, revealing nothing; Hiro has teleported (taking Ando) to the store. We don't actually see them disappear, but we do see them appear, so we don't know if they reappeared in exactly the same positions in which they disappeared, but they did appear in crouched positions, so there's no evidence of movement while teleporting and every reason to believe that Hiro didn't freeze time with Ando and walk to the store -- else why would they have appeared crouched over?
Hiro has confronted Sylar in Sylar's mother's apartment. Ando bursts in, Hiro grabs Ando, and the two of them (with the sword) teleport to Isaac's loft. We see them disappear and reappear in different positions.


I'd argue that the director/continuity people simply screwed up in case #2; if they'd meant for it to be a shared time-freeze with movement, they would have shown it as such, as they have in most other time-freeze instances. Plus which, if Hiro had frozen time (with Ando included in the time-freeze), they would have had the discussion about the broken sword on the walk to Isaac's loft rather than after getting there. Plus, why go to Isaac's loft? It seems an odd walk-to destination, but it makes some sense for teleportation (it being a location with which Hiro was already familiar). If it were a time-freeze, why not undo it before reaching the loft, or just after entering the door (they appeared in the middle of the room). In sum, there are at least as many problems interpreting this as a time freeze as there are interpreting it as teleportation. The latter interpretation just entails a real-world continuity screwup; the former requires a lot of explanations for bizarre in-story behaviors.

Back to the main point: There's no evidence that Hiro can include anybody else in a time-freeze, with the exception of Peter Petrelli (and by extension, anybody with powers similar to Peter's or Hiro's own).


Something just came to me about the scene when future Hiro gave Peter the original message. We always wondered why he picked out Peter if the goal was simply to stop Claire from dying. He could have picked out virtually anyone to do it. But if you remember, not only did future Hiro teleport back in time, he also froze time at that point to give Peter the message. If it is true that when he freezes time he cannot choose for someone to not be frozen, then it would make sense that he picked out Peter because Peter would be unaffected by freezing time. He would be the only person that would be unaffected.

[danterner]

Something which occurred to me today was the amazing coincidence that Hiro's father happened to at the only samurai sword repair shop in NYC at the very moment that Hiro came in to get his broken sword fixed.

How did he know that Hiro would be there?

The shop's yellow-pages advertisement had the "godsend" half-helix symbol, and it was prominently displayed on a banner near the register, as well. I took it for granted that the shop owner is connected/knew Mr. Nakamura. When Hiro and Ando called the sword repair shop and said "My name is Hiro Nakamura. I need you to repair my sword so I can save the world" (or whatever he said), the shopkeeper's first call after hanging up was probably to Hiro's dad alerting him that Hiro was on his way. Hiro and Ando got to the store by normal means (not by teleporting), leaving Dad sufficient time to arrive ahead of them. Come to think of it - even if the storekeeper didn't call Dad to alert him, Dad revealed to Hiro that he has been following Hiro's progress closely. Maybe closely enough that he knew about their call to the store, and so that's where he went to meet up with them. Either way, this didn't really both me.

Learning to fight well so quickly, on the other hand, I had some trouble with. I can accept it, but I just wish the show had taken the cooler path and had Hiro do his training back in time, in feudal Japan, over an extended period ending with him hopping back to the present. Ah well, can't have everything.

[trausch]

Well maybe "Sulu" isn't (I have serious doubts about that one though) but George Takei (the actor who played Sulu) is.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9845944/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Takei#Coming_out

More interesting than Sulu being gay is that Magneto is gay. Gandalf I can see...but Magneto?

http://www.worstpreviews.com/images/magneto.gif[

[Attack]

Except Sylar as Nathan went through a wall a la DL, but Sylar didn't kill DL.


I haven't seen this posted by anyone, in the future when future Hiro and Ando go to see HRG. Future Hiro asks HRG to get him access to the people he brought to him to hide. We later find out the HRG had deal with Parkman to turn in the dangerous ones and he gets to hide the others. We then see that Sylar is hiding as Nathan and then ends up using DL's power. I'm guessing that DL was turned over to Parkman by HRG and then Sylar killed him and took his powers.

[drew2k]

Or that the timeline that was shown has altered. Maybe not drastically (since it still looks like someone will blow up), but maybe slightly.

People need to stop hanging on to what we saw in 5 years Gone. That was the possibility of things to come had nothing been done from the point that Hiro teleported into the future. :up: Yes, yes, yes. I'm in total agreement.

Have people learned nothing from "A Christmas Carol"?

[TivoFan]

I question that. I think it's most likely a cool plot device that has no basis in reality. Of course, I'm no doctor, so I could be wrong, but I'd assume taking a bullet (which is supersonic) to the brain would result in death before a person has a chance to hear, much less process, the sound of the shot.

But are you going to risk it? It's strange but people have taken bullets to the head from short range and managed to live. At the very least it's possible he might not die immediately. And frankly Mohinder doesn't strike me as someone who is used to guns. It's possible that Mohinder could miss or only graze him. And if he pulls the trigger and doesn't kill HRG outright, he just threw away Molly's life. As long as HRG knows that killing Molly means that Mohinder will kill him, HRG will have a reason to hesitate and try to figure a way out of the situation.

[ccooperev]

I wonder if Linderman's really gone?

With the ability to heal others, I wonder if he can do what Claire can do too?


By the way...

Does anyone think the episode order on SciFi's upcoming marathon is pretty...crummy?

yes but Claire and Peter were saying that the area of the brain that controls regeneration is in the back. So, if thats the case, thats where Linderman bought it. So I don't think he's coming back...

[Vendikarr]

I really had to ignore a lot on the election (especially since I volunteer as a poll worker in South Florida).

Before Micah found out the machines were networked (which, by the way, is a really stupid thing to do, even if it were possible), Candice said they were going to go to 12 more precincts. Oh, really? 12 out of what (I don't know the exact number, but there are over 6,000 in NYC and over 1,200 in Manhattan alone)? I don't think they could have caused a landslide if they generated one Nathan vote for every registered voter in 13 precincts (which itself would have been suspicious when all other precincts would have had 40-60% turnout).

Also, those returns Nathan was watching? Those were exit polls, not official returns. As far as I know, Micah has no effect on exit polls*. It's going to look really strange when the exit polls are so far off from the official returns.

* I suppose he could, assuming they were electronically counted, but it appears he needs to touch machines to "talk to them", so he'd need to break into the news organizations collecting the exit polls.

I think one thing that allows Nathan to keep his congressional seat is the fact that NYC had that explosion. It's likely that there was no way to do a recount, or investigate something like a discrepancy between exit poll and voting machine tally. If the bomb doesn't go off, there could be an investigation.

[ccooperev]

Didn't the cut go across his forehead? I thought it was supposed to be more diagonal across his face like future Peter.

The scar on future peter sure looked like a sword cut. It was very think.

[sushikitten]

The scene where sylar killed Ted... was that the goriest head slicing we've seen to date or what? The linderman scene was also quite gory.

I never would have guessed this. On my TV (small bedroom TV, not HD) the Ted killing was so dark you couldn't see anything. Stupid crappy TV.

[unicorngoddess]

I still think the goriest moment was in the unaired pilot. From what I hear, others agreed because it didn't make it to the aired pilot version.

[twm01]

I still think the goriest moment was in the unaired pilot. From what I hear, others agreed because it didn't make it to the aired pilot version.
Can you elaborate on what this was???

[unicorngoddess]

Can you elaborate on what this was???

I don't know if it would be considered spoilerish since it was a deleted scene, but if it comes out on DVD it could be included on that, so I'll put it in spoiler tags.

In the unaired pilot, Isaac is desprate to stop using so he decides to quit cold turkety. He handcuffs himself to the radiator or something, I forget. and throws his drugs to the other side of the room. I guess the addiction got the best of him because he cut off his own hand to get to his drugs and then proceeded to draw the NY boom painting on the floor...in his own blood. When Peter and Simone come to find him, Peter pretty much steps on Isaacs severed hand and they find him OD'd and bleeding to death. They later edited out the part where Isaac handcuffs himself, and then Peter and Simone just find him OD'd.

[Hunter Green]

I question that. I think it's most likely a cool plot device that has no basis in reality. Of course, I'm no doctor, so I could be wrong, but I'd assume taking a bullet (which is supersonic) to the brain would result in death before a person has a chance to hear, much less process, the sound of the shot.Snipers specifically train in the shot that hits right in the brainstem, which is the only shot they'll take in an at-gunpoint hostage situation, since anything else isn't guaranteed fast enough to prevent pulling a trigger.

More interesting than Sulu being gay is that Magneto is gay. Gandalf I can see...but Magneto?You always wondered why he seemed so strangely obsessed with Xavier, admit it.

When Candice sad she was fat, I guess we see she isn't exactly who she looks like. She's masking a bigger version of the real her.I can't be the only person who realized that we saw the real her in the election hall. Remember her earlier speech about people being treated the way they are because of being different, or what they look like? When she told Micah, "how do you know this isn't the real me?" that was a nod to us to make sure we got it. She's a largish (but not huge -- just big enough that an appearance-obsessed, superficial woman would think of herself as huge at that size) black woman with a friendly-but-not-sexy appearance.

[ping]

I can't be the only person who realized that we saw the real her in the election hall. Remember her earlier speech about people being treated the way they are because of being different, or what they look like? When she told Micah, "how do you know this isn't the real me?" that was a nod to us to make sure we got it. She's a largish (but not huge -- just big enough that an appearance-obsessed, superficial woman would think of herself as huge at that size) black woman with a friendly-but-not-sexy appearance.

I'm not sure I'm buying that. She said to Micah, "You're just too young to see how much the world sucks, how people can be so mean to each other just because of the way they were born or... what they look like." That's spoken like someone with a truely grotesque appearance (like Elephant Man or something). Not like someone who looks like this:

http://heroeswiki.com/Image:Powers_candice_ms_baker.jpg

[Hunter Green]

I expect a lot of fat black women would disagree with you about how comfortable that line feels to them.

[busyba]

FYP

NO WAY is Sulu homosexual!!!

Don't be so sure...

http://static.flickr.com/33/56886147_c6456de0c1_m.jpg

:D

edit: crap, I smeeked the smeek. :o

[murgatroyd]

I'm not sure I'm buying that. She said to Micah, "You're just too young to see how much the world sucks, how people can be so mean to each other just because of the way they were born or... what they look like." That's spoken like someone with a truely grotesque appearance (like Elephant Man or something). Not like someone who looks like this:

http://heroeswiki.com/Image:Powers_candice_ms_baker.jpg

I thought this was a very weak point in the story.

I'm supposed to believe that a mixed-race kid would not have ANY experience of how mean the world can be?

Where the heck has Candice lived, that she believes that?

Jan

[busyba]

I thought this was a very weak point in the story.

I'm supposed to believe that a mixed-race kid would not have ANY experience of how mean the world can be?

Where the heck has Candice lived, that she believes that?
Or maybe Candice is to caught up in herself to give others any credit for understanding. Also, it's all to easy for such a person to just write off the opinion of Micah with the "you're just too young to understand" handwave. If you need a real-life example of that, just look at Rosie telling Elizabeth that she'll "understand when she's older" (or something like that).

[ccooperev]

I thought this was a very weak point in the story.

I'm supposed to believe that a mixed-race kid would not have ANY experience of how mean the world can be?

Where the heck has Candice lived, that she believes that?

Jan

Well, believe it or not, there are many communities where it really doesn't matter much. But then again, Micah is pretty street smart. Especially around ATM's.

[Fraser+Dief]

I can't be the only person who realized that we saw the real her in the election hall.

I don't think that was the real her at all. I think she chose a black appearance because she was taking her "son" into the booth.

[murgatroyd]

Well, believe it or not, there are many communities where it really doesn't matter much. But then again, Micah is pretty street smart. Especially around ATM's.

Oh, I believe there are communities where it really doesn't matter much -- and I wish it were true everywhere. But I don't expect that to be the case. Change comes so slowly. :(

And kids can be incredibly cruel to other kids who are different.

Jan

[Rob Helmerichs]

Oh, I believe there are communities where it really doesn't matter much -- and I wish it were true everywhere. But I don't expect that to be the case. Change comes so slowly. :(

And kids can be incredibly cruel to other kids who are different.
Actually, from what I've heard kids care a LOT less about race these days than society in general. Which, if true, is the first positive thing I've heard in ages about "kids today"! :D

[murgatroyd]

Yeah, maybe for kids Micah's age, that is true. From what I've heard, that change hasn't quite made it to the high school level.

Anyway, back to talking about Heroes....

Jan

[busyba]

Actually, from what I've heard kids care a LOT less about race these days than society in general.
But not these (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_Blue_(duo)) kids:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e8/The-path-we-chose.jpg

:D