Is there a Tivo-killer on the horizon?

[mitchb2]

I've been a Tivo fan since 2000. Series 1-->Series 2-->DTivo.

I'm pretty fed up with the glitchy, unreliable SP's, and the terrible compression artifacts are keeping me from upgrading my TV.

What's on the horizon for DTV technology?

[GoHokies!]

"glitchy, unreliable SPs"? On your S2?

I don't see anything else on the horizon, unless you're going to go the route of Vista, Cablecards and a PC based type solution - I think that'll be more prone to errors than the Tivo solution.

If you want to go to HD, right now your options are the S3 and the cable companies. Some of the Cable company boxes seem to be pretty decent from what people say here. I've never met one that I liked, but ymmv.

The only thing on the horizon is the new cheaper HD box from Tivo, but I'm not holding my breath to see that anytime soon.

[supasta]

The "TiVo killer" is lined up right behind the "iPod killer". :rolleyes:

[GoHokies!]

The "TiVo killer" is lined up right behind the "iPod killer". :rolleyes:
They're actually the same device! :D

[Phantom Gremlin]

I don't think there's a business case for a "TiVo killer" as a stand-alone product.

I think TiVo marketing has been spectacularly bad, awful, horrible (blah blah blah). But many other companies have tried similar things and also failed. Moviebeam, anyone?

So, as already mentioned, some answers are DVRs from cable and satellite companies and software solutions such as Media Center and MythTV.

The "cheap" DVRs bundled with service have done well, but the software solutions are a non-starter for the general public.

Joe Sixpack doesn't even understand why he needs a TiVo. He's not looking for a "TiVo killer".

[ZeoTiVo]

The "TiVo killer" will also be cable company, Sat company and DVRs in general killer.

Content delivered via broadband that does not need recording capability and thus not need the scheduling software that goes with it. now this device will need good search software and a way to organize and work with the content on the hard drive to keep a nice fresh now playing list always available. So it may not be such the TiVo killer afterall, just a tiVo DVR killer.

I think the TiVo killer will always seem to be on the horizon but it just never seems to come into real focus ;)

[mick66]

I've been a Tivo fan since 2000. Series 1-->Series 2-->DTivo.

I'm pretty fed up with the glitchy, unreliable SP's,

In the 6 years that I've had Tivo, I've never seen any problems with SP's. Everything that was supposed to record has and everything that wasn't, didn't. Yes, there have been recordings that I've missed and others that recorded something other than what tivo thought, but those were all because of faulty guide data which is not in anyway something that Tivo can be faulted for.

Perhaps you would be better off asking here for instructions on how to properly use the season pass feature.

[mitchb2]

Yeah, nice attempt at an insult.

When a show doesn't get recorded because there's "Not enough space," and there's only 12 hours of stuff saved, that's a bug.

Then there's the great "Someone in your household modified your season pass" of 2006.

You're a fanboy...don't bother with a real discussion about alternatives.
Tivo has been good...not great. But technology has advanced, hard drive space is practically free. Compression artifacts, especially as bad as these, should not be.

It's time for someone to give us an upgrade.

[mtchamp]

There have been so many TiVo killers unleased that I've lost count. TiVo used to be on "Death Watch" you know. TiVo is mystical I guess. You just can't kill TiVo. Everybody has tried and failed.

I don't see how any other company can have any success as a standalone company like TiVo when TiVo is soon to be available to 24 millon Comcast customers and Cox too. It will either be get your private TiVo box with every TiVo feature or rent one from the cable company with limited features. Amazon Unbox certainly won't be available on a Comcast box but something like it from Comcast.

The other choices will be supplied by the likes of Verizon, AT&T, Time Warner, Dish and DirecTV. Since Dish lost a patent lawsuit to TiVo and if TiVo wins the appeal, then TiVo will be more likely licensed everywhere around the world.

[cwerdna]

Yeah, nice attempt at an insult.

When a show doesn't get recorded because there's "Not enough space," and there's only 12 hours of stuff saved, that's a bug.

Then there's the great "Someone in your household modified your season pass" of 2006.

You're a fanboy...don't bother with a real discussion about alternatives.
Tivo has been good...not great. But technology has advanced, hard drive space is practically free. Compression artifacts, especially as bad as these, should not be.

It's time for someone to give us an upgrade.
I've had a Tivo since 2001 and never have hit the first case. As for the second problem, yes, that afflicted us DirecTivo folks and was annoying at best. That's the ONLY time I've ever had problems. SPs overall have definitely NOT been "glitchy, unreliable" for me.

Since "hard drive space is practically free", what's keeping you from adding bigger drives and recording at best quality?

[GoHokies!]

I've had a Tivo since 2001 and never have hit the first case.I've not heard of that problem either. I would imagine that if it were more common that we'd here a little more about it around here.

Mitch, why don't you lose the attitude and tell us what's actually happening? We may even be able to help you...

[samo]

I've not heard of that problem either.
Because you haven't been here long enough. This is a very common problem when season passes or wishlists are setup with to many Keep until delete. Tivo thinks that you want to keep all the future season pass recordings KUD and , for example, some marathon next week will prevent all of the recordings.
Tivo, like any other DVR, will miss recordings due to this or "28 day rule" or bad guide data once in a while. Not a big deal. The only really bad bug TiVo had was "Someone in your household modified your season pass". That one was bad enough and it took TiVo so long to fix it that I almost got read of my two remaining TiVos.

[mick66]

Because you haven't been here long enough. This is a very common problem when season passes or wishlists are setup with to many Keep until delete. Tivo thinks that you want to keep all the future season pass recordings KUD and , for example, some marathon next week will prevent all of the recordings.

This is user error.

Tivo, like any other DVR, will miss recordings due to this or "28 day rule" or bad guide data once in a while.

The 28 day rule is to prevent duplicates. If you want duplicates, you have to ask for 'em. You can't blame TiVo when it receives bad guide info.


Not a big deal. The only really bad bug TiVo had was "Someone in your household modified your season pass". That one was bad enough and it took TiVo so long to fix it that I almost got read of my two remaining TiVos.

Is that 'read' as in: I will read that book someday.
or
Is it 'read' as in: I read that book last year.

[mick66]

It's time for someone to give us an upgrade.

Why do you feel entitled to something better?

[Phantom Gremlin]

Why do you feel entitled to something better?
Because he lives in the USA, which is the very quintessence of an economic system we call "capitalism". It may not be tomorrow, but eventually someone will build him "a better mousetrap".

[samo]

Is that 'read' as in: I will read that book someday.
or
Is it 'read' as in: I read that book last year.
No it is English as a second language. You don't have to rid it if it offends you so much. :)

[rdrrepair]

Is that 'read' as in: I will read that book someday.
or
Is it 'read' as in: I read that book last year.
No it is English as a second language. You don't have to rid it if it offends you so much. :)I'm sorry, I have to smile at this one. :D

[mitchb2]

Since "hard drive space is practically free", what's keeping you from adding bigger drives and recording at best quality?

Because 80 hours is more than enough *IF* the software wasn't so illogical.
It won't let me keep a recording based on the assumption that I won't watch and delete anything, therefore the drive will be full. Ludicrous.

As for compression artifacts, the DTivo doesn't have options for recording quality.
When I replaced my Series 2 with the DTivo, I noticed the poor picture quality the minute I turned it on...it was a huge step backward.

I have a 65" RPTV in the home theater, we only watch DVD's on that. The Tivo looks too horrible. Actually, downloaded AVI files have better picture quality.

Upstairs in the living room, where we watch recorded shows, I'd love to upgrade our old fishbowl to a 42" flat screen, but I know the artifacts would drive us nuts.

[ZeoTiVo]

You can't blame TiVo when it receives bad guide info.

a couple of people have pointed this out and I think the statement should be clarified some. I think it should be stated
You can not blame TiVo season pass programming for bad guide data.

You can hold TiVo inc responsible for reasonable efforts to provide good guide data.


As for the OP - you ignored my first post and obvioulsy just want to rant on "unreliable, glitchy season pass programming on a TiVo. All I can say is :p


PS - get HD via a cable company if compression is your beef.

[TiVo Troll]

The "TiVo killer" is lined up right behind the "iPod killer". :rolleyes:

It's unusual for a new and seemingly successful product to remain unprofitable for 10 years, no matter how carefully its business plan is seemingly ever so carefully tweaked. It's also unusual for there to be only a single product in a category; in this case a DVR independent of the source of programming; i.e. cable or satellite. These providers can easily include their DVR's in programming packages and even subsidize them to a degree as an incentive for using their services.

TiVo runs the risk of becoming an increasingly marginalized niche product favored by an intensely loyal but relatively limited audience. If so it likely would become a software only product, utilized by cable, satellite, and internet businesses on a contractual basis. As such it wouldn't disappear, but it wouldn't offer frequent upgrades of its capabilities either.

[CharlesH]

It is really annoying when the program info changes at the "last minute" and TiVo misses it, but the cableco set-top box/DVR has the updated info (such as sports playoff and Olympic schedules). This may be a case where the cablecos see no reason to help their competitors by providing the updated info to Tribune in a timely manner. But there is no reason for networked TiVo's to not have at least the latest info that Tribune has, since they "call home" for TiVo Central Online scheduling requests every 15 minutes anyway, and thus could be told to do an "emergency" guide data update.

[ZeoTiVo]

since they "call home" for TiVo Central Online scheduling requests every 15 minutes anyway, and thus could be told to do an "emergency" guide data update.
is it reasonable to have TiVo provide the server capacity for every TiVo to call within thesame hour period for guide data? Actually I have not seen this happen very much lately though all I record sports wise is a couple of football teams

[gregly]

As for compression artifacts, the DTivo doesn't have options for recording quality.
When I replaced my Series 2 with the DTivo, I noticed the poor picture quality the minute I turned it on...it was a huge step backward.

Yell at DirecTV about this. DirecTiVos do absolutely nothing to the incoming MPEG-2 signal sent by DirecTV -- it is saved, unchanged, to the hard drive. If you have horrible compression artifacts in your recordings, it is because of horrible compression artifacts in the signal you are receiving.

Don't worry, for soon D* will switch to MPEG-4 signals across the board, rendering everybody's DirecTiVo totally useless overnight. Then you'll have no picture to complain about at all!

[mitchb2]

Are you serious? When is this supposed to happen?

[Mavrick22]

It will only happen to the HD DirecTivos not the SD ones for they will stay MPEG-2 as far as the HD it will be switching to MPEG-4 withing the next year supposdly but all all HD DirecTivos will continue to work for SD and OTA HD just not HD supplied by Directv.

[CharlesH]

is it reasonable to have TiVo provide the server capacity for every TiVo to call within thesame hour period for guide data? Actually I have not seen this happen very much lately though all I record sports wise is a couple of football teamsI'm not sure how much load it would actually be. It would be a very small incremental download, not the whole guide. They already deal with every networked TiVo checking for scheduling requests every 15 minutes.

I was having problems with the hockey and basketball playoffs. A local team unexpectedly does well, and it get moved to another, more popular, channel.

[Shawn95GT]

They only thing I can see in the immediate future that would make me concider junking the S3s would be if On-demand got HUGE and basicly offered any content, anytime via on-demand. In effect the cableco would act as one huge DVR.

[ZeoTiVo]

I'm not sure how much load it would actually be. It would be a very small incremental download, not the whole guide. They already deal with every networked TiVo checking for scheduling requests every 15 minutes.

I was having problems with the hockey and basketball playoffs. A local team unexpectedly does well, and it get moved to another, more popular, channel.
yes but that every 15 minutes is just a ping for the bulk of the contacts.
I am not saying it could not be done but TiVo would have to spend the bucks on bulking up the servers they have from the normal useage patterns to one of using that scheduled ping to do the larger work of checking for any affected recording and then push an update to them. Since sports and the like are on all year long this is not just a few times a year event.

It would be an extremely useful feature for sure but money would have to be spent o the servers and on the people to keep an eye on such changes and getting them in the system quickly. There is significantly more money involved than just paying for the code changes needed.

[bmgoodman]

Am I the only one who fears that the "Tivo Killer" may be Tivo, Inc's upper management? :D

Thank you. I'll be here all week. Don't forget to tip your waitress....

[Phantom Gremlin]

Am I the only one who fears that the "Tivo Killer" may be Tivo, Inc's upper management? :D
Very well said. You're not the only one.

[mattack]

Because 80 hours is more than enough *IF* the software wasn't so illogical.
It won't let me keep a recording based on the assumption that I won't watch and delete anything, therefore the drive will be full. Ludicrous.

You call it ludicrous. Please explain EXACTLY what it should do instead.

YOU have told it to save everything until you delete it manually. Thus, the only thing the Tivo does and can know is that, based upon the current information available, there will not be space in X days to record something.

The behavior somewhat annoys me too, enough so that I don't keep many things as save until I delete... and in doing so, I risk having things deleted.

However, while there are heuristics that could be invented (user has deleted X hours of shows in the last week, thus the user might delete shows at the same rate), that also would be a bad guesstimate.

So please explain exactly how it can work, and GUARANTEE it will record the shows you have told it to record.

[TiVo Troll]

Why shouldn't TiVo have the option to literally follow a user's command to 'Save until I delete' any recording and merely display a message whenever the very next scheduled recording would overrun HD capacity? Too simple?

If SUID isn't what a user really wants, it's easy to change the setting to 'until space needed'. But some people prefer having fewer recordings maintained securely rather than maximizing quantity regardless of turnover duration. There's no reason to arbitrarily not record anything which would fit on the HD at the time it was recorded.

[samo]

So please explain exactly how it can work, and GUARANTEE it will record the shows you have told it to record
Simple. Just like both satellite providers DVRs do. First in, first out. If you schedule protected recording (equivalent of SUID) no space is reserved for it in a future.
DVR will record protected and non protected shows as scheduled and keep deleting oldest unprotected shows until whole storage space if filled with protected shows. In unlikely event that no protected show was erased in two weeks, DVR will stop recording anything. With TiVo the space is reserved for future protected shows as if this unlikely event already happened and TiVo stops recording two weeks ahead of time. Stupid approach, if asked me.

[ZeoTiVo]

I thought the TiVo would reevaluate things again each day and reschedule recordings as room is seen to be available. I do not know this for sure though since I put big hard drives in my two DT units and am selective on which shows are KUID now.

[HDTiVo]

Am I the only one who fears that the "Tivo Killer" may be Tivo, Inc's upper management? :D

Thank you. I'll be here all week. Don't forget to tip your waitress....
No, it will be those greedy money people if they stop buying new stock from time to time. :D