Why can't TiVo innovate like it's 1999?

[singular]

I've been a subscriber since early 2000 and have seen so little innovation come out of this company. Maybe I'm too much of an uber geek living in silicon valley but Tivo's approach to a DVR mirrors that of VCRs and DVD players: a stagnant technology with little to no feature enhancements to set it apart as the best of breed and and to evolve the technology beyond just a 'recorder/player.' DVRs are fast becoming a commodity and Tivo has failed to keep pace with the two fastest growing segments in the media world: advertising and realtime access to rich content. Suing for patent infringement is not what will save this company. Its patents will be obsolete when someone else leapfrogs Tivo's technology.

Let's summarize their not-so-noteworthy accomplishments thus far:
Dual tuners, network support sans USB, expensive HDTV support, minimal advertising features, no-so-profitable revenue generating partnerships with fandango and unbox and minimal revenue generating partnerships with yahoo and Live365, and a revamped pricing model to make even its most diehard fans grumble.

I truly believe that if Tivo makes go(ogle)bs of money then we'll get lots more innovation and really cool features. They would be able to toss large sums at R&D and attract lots of viable partnerships rather than fighting everyday to stay solvent. With such a stagnant technology, no wonder no one wants to pay for their technology and opts to build their own.

So here's what I propose. Tivo should start innovating and have something else to boast about. It's corporate mantra should not be Tivos can timeshift and auto-record shows, that's just so 1999.

My suggestions are below. There's a lot of visionaries on this board who knows Tivo inside out. Let's give them oodles of ideas to to bring back the coolness of owning a Tivo.

- offer a free box, no monthly fee if users are willing to sit through 30 second ads a couple of times throughout a show (like viewers do now when watching network shows online). Ads can be targeted and Tivo should be able to easily recoup $7-13 a month per box.
- Streaming, streaming, streaming. They got Tivo to Tivo streaming down pat and should now focus on being able to stream online content to/from Tivo and support additional file formats. For example, release a browser plugin that allows you to stream youtube content to the DVR. full iTunes library/playlist support, support aac, avi, flv, etc., allow subscriptions to online videos (youtube, blogs, websites)
- Hire some good product designers to make their boxes more appealing. Cut a hole in the front of the current box and it looks like a VCR..yawn. Touch screen remote, small form factor, something that makes people notice you have a Tivo in your AV cabinet.
- Mini-Tivos. Main Tivo stores all of the shows and streams to mini tivos (flash based HDs) throughout the house. Only cost to the consumer is the hardware, no additional subscription costs.

[rdrrepair]

Wow, for someone who registered in 04, and waited til now to post for the first time, you have a lot to say.

I bought my TiVo to avoid commercials. I wouldn't want it for free with commercials. Did you know, TiVo is working with Fox to add current commercials to replace commercials already in the TiVo.

Lets say that you watch 24 five weeks after it was broadcast. Do you think the commercial for next weeks episode of Prison Break matters? It will refresh time sensitive content. Maybe they'll insert something about the current newscast on the FoxReport or tell you about this weeks show on Fox.

A commercial for a 4th of July sale is useless in September so someone like Proctor and Gamble might pay to have their own current commercials re-released. This sounds very promising as an additional revenue stream. I like the thumbs up to highlight a commercial. It allows TiVo to tap into their customers interest without slowing down the content if you choose to ignore it.

Ps. Welcome to the site ;)

[BlackBetty]

Wow, for someone who registered in 04, and waited til now to post for the first time, you have a lot to say.


This site gets archived every so often. And when things are archived you lose your post count. I'd be willing to bet this person had a post count prior to an archiving and then hasn't posted since the last archiving.

[Redux]

Because in the 1990s money was insane. Profit had become a meaningless term. GoGo companies were judged on how fast they could burn cash.

Today, money requires a home that will take good care of it and generate more.

Tivo can innovate all it wants, do anything it can imagine. As long as it's pretty much cash-flow neutral, generates positive return within 18 months, and results in ongoing incremental sales at high margin.

[ZeoTiVo]

TiVo has "streaming" with TiVocast and unbox. With some 3rd party HME apps you can take just about any video off the internet and use TiVoToComeBack to "stream" to the TiVo now. It would be cool to have some kind of search to fins this stuff via a TiVo interface and pull it to the TiVo. TiVo demoed such a search at CES. Hopefully they are working on making it release code instead of a prototype.

TiVo never makes money on hardware and the miniTiVos would actually cost more upfront than they charge after rebate for the current DVR models(except the S3 of course).

The S3 has the nicer looking front plate but I would opt for a plain box with the S3 goodness inside for less money.

The internet is enjoying a massive uptick in advertising mostly due to being bale to puts ads in front of videos like on CNN. TiVo could perhaps get a revenue stream going around that but to be forced to wacth the ad would be the exact opposite of what TiVo does now. That would not be a lightly taken decision.

[singular]

Re: the advertising aspect.

What I'm suggesting is this. Instead of recording a show via its scheduled showtime and getting all of the built in ads, you can download a show directly from the network. The show has one 30 second ad spot at the very beginning where you can't fast foward and the rest of the show is commercial free. On top of that let's add the coolness factor. You immediately download shows at the beginning of the broadcast time meaning you get to see the rest of the episode earlier than those watching it live. And add another coolness factor, single, dual, triple, quadruple tuner? Doesn't matter, you're downloading/streaming the shows instead of recording it via the tuner.

[shady]

I love the idea of a thread with innovative suggestions. I just don't see anything innovative in your suggestions. I think it just proves that it's very hard to innovate.

My look on it is TiVo Works!



- offer a free box, no monthly fee if users are willing to sit through 30 second ads a couple of times throughout a show (like viewers do now when watching network shows online). Ads can be targeted and Tivo should be able to easily recoup $7-13 a month per box.

By your own admission, it's not innovative. Basically, you want free stuff


- Streaming, streaming, streaming. They got Tivo to Tivo streaming down pat and should now focus on being able to stream online content to/from Tivo and support additional file formats. For example, release a browser plugin that allows you to stream youtube content to the DVR. full iTunes library/playlist support, support aac, avi, flv, etc., allow subscriptions to online videos (youtube, blogs, websites)

It's pretty clear that they are already going down a path like that. Again though, not innovative - you can do some of this on a Wii



- Hire some good product designers to make their boxes more appealing. Cut a hole in the front of the current box and it looks like a VCR..yawn. Touch screen remote, small form factor, something that makes people notice you have a Tivo in your AV cabinet.

I've had touch screen remotes that cost the same as a Series3, but I still prefer the TiVo peanut.



- Mini-Tivos. Main Tivo stores all of the shows and streams to mini tivos (flash based HDs) throughout the house. Only cost to the consumer is the hardware, no additional subscription costs.
You want free stuff again. You can already do this now, but you just want it smaller and cheaper. Hardly innovation

[ah30k]

On the topic of touch screen remotes, they tend to require the user to actually look at the remote to use it. I'd rather something that I can use without taking my eyes off the TV.

[rdrrepair]

I love the idea of a thread with innovative suggestions. I just don't see anything innovative in your suggestions.It sounds like someone looking for free stuff. A TiVo with ads in it that you must watch, is a TiVo with the remote hidden in the couch or the 2yr old took off with it.

I watch commercial when I want too. I would be willing to sit in front of a commercial during a download. But only for a downloaded show that I got off of the internet for free and only if it's at the start of said free download. I would need to be warned that the video being downloaded is restricted and by agreeing to said download there will be commercials in it.

I could live with that. I have to pay 1.99 to Unbox if I miss a Tv show like 24. Give me the options and I'll sit in front of 2-3 commercial ads.

At a 1.99 for three 30 second spots is the same as getting paid $79.60 and hour to watch the show.

[samo]

At a 1.99 for three 30 second spots is the same as getting paid $79.60 and hour to watch the show.
This is exactly the reason why suggestion of forced commercials in exchange for the free box and free service is absurd. Advertisers are not idiots to pay you a fortune to watch their commercials.

[singular]

Whoa, didn't expect such a response against commercials. For the record, I live alone and own three tivos and have no complaints about paying money over the years for the tivo boxes and service. I'm not looking for free stuff, but just wanted to make some suggestions on how Tivo can benefit.

Here some numbers on how much advertising revnue is worth to Tivo.

An average household watches 112 hours of television a month. An hour long show typically has 12 minutes of national advertisements.

American idol 30 second spots net $745,000 per spot or 17.88 million per hour long show. On Feb 14th, Idol had 28.9 million viewers. Each viewer reach costs 62 cents. Multiply by 112 = $69.29 per month.

24 30 second spots net $344,000 per spot or 8.26 million per hour long show. On Feb 12th, 24 had 13.7 million viewers. Each viewer reach costs 60 cents. Multiply by 112 = $67.49 per month.

I will not sit through 12 mins of commercials on a download but if advertisers pay this kind of money to reach a broad audience, they may pay a premium for tivo to deliver targeted ads.

So how much does it cost to advertise through Tivo?
Subscription cost per month: $13 per household
Let's say a viewer has to sit through 2 mins of commercials at the beginning of an hour long show or 1 min for a 30 min show.
112 hours = 224 mins of commercials.
Cost per hour long show to advertiser = 12 cents

[mick66]

Whaa! whaaa! TiVo isn't good enough for me. Whaa!
WTF is that about?

Just call this phone number:
877-367-8486 (7:00 AM - 8:00 PM Pacific)
any day of the week to cancel your inadequate service.


btw - as it is right now, I don't sit through any commercials at the beginning middle or end of a program unless I want to.

[samo]

Subscription cost per month: $13 per household
Let's say a viewer has to sit through 2 mins of commercials at the beginning of an hour long show or 1 min for a 30 min show.
112 hours = 224 mins of commercials.
Cost per hour long show to advertiser = 12 cents
Well, now we have a conflict. rdrrepair wants $79.60 per hour to watch commercials, but you suggest that he should be paid $3.60 per hour.
I think that you will never find an idiot advertiser to pay $79.60 nor you will find an idiot viewer to take $3.60.

[dmdeane]

I've been a subscriber since early 2000 and have seen so little innovation come out of this company.I also have been with TiVo since early 2000. I couldn't disagree more. Obviously we have very different definitions of 'innovation'. When I try to think back and remember how limited my Tivo was circa May 2000, compared to what it can do now, it's hard to think of TiVo as 'stagnant'.Maybe I'm too much of an uber geek living in silicon valley but Tivo's approach to a DVR mirrors that of VCRs and DVD players: a stagnant technology with little to no feature enhancements to set it apart as the best of breed and and to evolve the technology beyond just a 'recorder/player.'Have you actually been following what TiVo has been doing these past seven years? TiVo is by far the "best of breed" amongst DVRs. TiVo has been doing nothing but constant feature enhancements over the past seven years, and is no longer just a recorder/player. This isn't meant as criticism, but you don't sound like you have been keeping up with what TiVo has been up to. Which is fine, there are probably better hobbies out there! DVRs are fast becoming a commodity and Tivo has failed to keep pace with the two fastest growing segments in the media world: advertising and realtime access to rich content. Suing for patent infringement is not what will save this company. Its patents will be obsolete when someone else leapfrogs Tivo's technology.Wow, I'm having flashbacks to threads on this forum from like, umm...about two or three years ago maybe. TiVo is all about advertising and access to content and other features beyond what a basic DVR provides, and by advertising I mean finding ways for TiVo to make money with advertisers in ways that do not annoy TiVo subscribers.

And what was TiVo supposed to do, just let other companies steal their patents? That isn't something TiVo can ignore. Defending patents is a key step TiVo has to take in moving towards new revenue streams that don't rely on patent licensing; TiVo isn't planning on relying on patents forever, far from it; this has been discussed many times already.

Anyway, welcome back to the forum and thanks for the rush of deja vu/nostalgia or whatever it was that you provided me with. :)

[classicsat]

I've been a subscriber since early 2000 and have seen so little innovation come out of this company. Maybe I'm too much of an uber geek living in silicon valley but Tivo's approach to a DVR mirrors that of VCRs and DVD players: a stagnant technology

VCRs are more stagnant than TiVo. The biggest innovation in recent years has been the VCD/DVD combo. DVDs less so. IMO, DVD players haven't really evolved much featurewise in the past few years, except becoming cheaper. Not to mention DVD maunfacturers really not updating players customers do have.
TiVo, on the other hand, has been innovating with a few software updates per year, for Series 2 and 3. The DT and Series 3 are pretty major developments, as is trasnfers, and online content.

- offer a free box, no monthly fee if users are willing to sit through 30 second ads a couple of times throughout a show (like viewers do now when watching network shows online). Ads can be targeted and Tivo should be able to easily recoup $7-13 a month per box.

Hard to do for a few "customers" since most customers would sooner pay for the serivce without ads.


- Streaming, streaming, streaming. They got Tivo to Tivo streaming down pat and should now focus on being able to stream online content to/from Tivo and support additional file formats. For example, release a browser plugin that allows you to stream youtube content to the DVR. full iTunes library/playlist support, support aac, avi, flv, etc., allow subscriptions to online videos (youtube, blogs, websites)


First, the TiVo itself does not stream. It downloads. Second, the TiVo can only play certain forms of MPEG2 video. That is a hardware limitation. With that, even the appearance streaming online content would be impossible, as most broadband connections are slower than what is needed to sustain a video "stream" the TiVo could play.

That all said, TiVo does offer some online video downloads with Tivocast and Unbox. The technology is there, TiVo just needs to sign on with more content providers.

- Hire some good product designers to make their boxes more appealing. Cut a hole in the front of the current box and it looks like a VCR..yawn. Touch screen remote, small form factor, something that makes people notice you have a Tivo in your AV cabinet.

TiVo's design does stand out somewhat. And you do have to keep in mind costs manufacturing realities, which TiVos designers surely do, in ther balance for something catching, and easy and low cost to manufacture.

As for a touchscreen remote, that would singificantly add cost.
Be glad they have gone as far as the Glo peanut. If you want a Touch remote, you can go buy your own.

- Mini-Tivos. Main Tivo stores all of the shows and streams to mini tivos (flash based HDs) throughout the house. Only cost to the consumer is the hardware, no additional subscription costs.

The only realistic thing you have said, that TiVo already isn't doing, although I don't see such an appliance on their radar, as it does take away from sub revenue.

[rdrrepair]

Shhhh, I'm not suppose to tell anyone, but, I'm a beta tester. I have been beta testing the Series 5 for a few days now. It does SDV and PPV and is operating on the yet to be announced 4d holographic with Smell-O-Vision. Will keep all posted in the secret underground. Happy TiVo'ing folks. :D

[GoHokies!]

Shhhh, I'm not suppose to tell anyone, but, I'm a beta tester. I have been beta testing the Series 5 for a few days now. It does SDV and PPV and is operating on the yet to be announced 4d holographic with Smell-O-Vision. Will keep all posted in the secret underground. Happy TiVo'ing folks. :DWow, Tivo must really hate you! I'm testing the Series 27 - it's actually just a cable that goes from the wall to my brain! :D

Seriously for the OP, your suggestions (as has been suggested) are not all that innovative. Some type of a crazy form factor box may sound nice, but there's a reason that everything is the same basic size and shape - it all fits nicely in my home entertainment center!

Any mechanism that forces people to watch an advertisement is going to cause an immiadate uproar followed by a wave of cancellations. I'll tolerate it the once or twice a month I have to sit through it on a DVD, no way in hell I'll do it for every show I watch.

[ZeoTiVo]

Wow, Tivo must really hate you! I'm testing the Series 27 - it's actually just a cable that goes from the wall to my brain! :D you should try it with the TiVo branded wireless brain adapter ;)

Seriously for the OP, your suggestions (as has been suggested) are not all that innovative. actually minus the forced ads, I already posted about how all the "innovations" the OP wanted are already happening. Maybe the OP could put his TiVo in an Xbox360 case :)

[GoHokies!]

you should try it with the TiVo branded wireless brain adapter ;)

actually minus the forced ads, I already posted about how all the "innovations" the OP wanted are already happening. Maybe the OP could put his TiVo in an Xbox360 case :)I won't try that until they've upgraded their weak and pathetic ROT-13 encryption with at least ROT-26 (although ROT-52 would be preferred). ;)