LAN speed transfer slow

[tweaker]

I'm using TivoToGo 2.4 and when I transfer files both to and from my Tivo (Series 2) it's EXTREMELY slow to transfer. I'm using Ethernet and not wireless. Is there something I need to open (like ports) to make these transfers more realistic?

[WayneCarter]

What do you consider "EXTREMELY slow"? (how long does it take to transfer a 60 minute show for example? What quality setting was usd to record the show?)

Assuming the transfer is to or from a computer, not another TiVo, what type and speed is it? How is the network configured? What else is on the network? Etc.

[ah30k]

From what I remember, transfers from TiVo to PC are around realtime (not sure if you consider that slow?) because the TiVo has to reassemble a single MPEG file from the native format that has separate audio and video components.

Chances are that the bottleneck is this re-encoding and not the network performance.

[tweaker]

To answer the speed question, a 0:30 show it taking 37 minutes to transfer. That I think is extremely rediculous. There's got to be a faster way.

[ah30k]

Dude, I just told you why it was slow. You're seeing about realtime which is about what I remember. It is NOT just yanking it off the disk and firing it over the LAN. It has got to re-build the MPEG file from its components. It needs to do this in the background while it is keeping its day job going as well.

Sorry you think it is ridiculous.

[tweaker]

I'm sorry if I offended you in some way ah30k, I was just answering WayneCarter's response.

[WayneCarter]

I was just answering WayneCarter's response.I also asked "What quality setting was used to record the show?" - are you going to answer this as well? Recordings at "Best" quality are much larger than those at "Basic" - so they take longer to transfer.

[Mover480]

Wired DT Tivos are much faster. Faster processor I guess. I get 1GB transfers in 13 minutes.

[ah30k]

Wired DT Tivos are much faster. Faster processor I guess. I get 1GB transfers in 13 minutes.It isn't the network that is the bottleneck in TTG.

[steve614]

To answer the speed question, a 0:30 show it taking 37 minutes to transfer. That I think is extremely rediculous. There's got to be a faster way.
This is about the speed I get on a 540 model Tivo with a recording on "high" quality.
Transfer speeds can vary depending on what model Tivo you have, what recording quality you use, whether you use a wired or wireless connection, etc.

There are tricks you can try, like tuning the Tivo to channel 0 and putting a previously recorded show on 'Pause', that are supposed to take some workload off the Tivos' processor.
However, in my experience, these tricks did not make a noticable difference. (YMMV)


ETA: Do what I do....just set up your transfers before you go to bed/work. That way your transfers will be done when you wake up/get home. :p

[SirRUSH]

Hello,

I agree that the TiVo unit is probably Muxing the files into the container but even when I De/Mux files with TMPGEnc or even VirtualDubMod Windows isn't that slow & neither should the TiVo be.

I've connected my TiVo to my home network via LAN (Ethernet) & I get 1st generation USB 2.0 speeds. Around 1MB/s download (From TiVo to Computer). That's pathetic when it should be 8 to 9MB/s.

I have no desire to do Wireless since Wireless is still pretty slow compared to Wired. I have transfered files from TiVo to TiVo, I'm using the Series 2 DT TiVos. The speed was blazingly fast. I cannot see how Muxing then sending to a Computer Ethernet at the same time could slow it down like that. I can Mux from one computer to another at the fast speeds I stated above with no problems. IF the TiVo is re-encoding the files on the fly I still don't see why it's so slow. It shouldn't matter the Quality a show is encoded at. I do enough Video Processing to know that.

My guess, a "special" Brand name Ethernet board is needed to get the speeds you get between 2 TiVos?? If that's true then I am a bit disappointed.

My Setup: TiVo Series 2 DT Operating System 8.3-01-2-649
eMachine T2200+ (I love AMD CPUs) 1.8Ghz with 1GB RAM.
400GB Barracuda Sygate Hard Drive.
Realtek RTL8139 Family PCI Fast Ethernet NIC.

As you can see there should be no reason for the slow transfer rates from the Ethernet connected TiVo to my Personal Computer. ;) Anyone have any ideas? Please don't say, "You need a special Ethernet board." hahah....well, okay, I just don't want THAT to be the answer, haha.

Thanks much, all. (I'm another whom cannot live without TiVo now!)

[WayneCarter]

It shouldn't matter the Quality a show is encoded at. I do enough Video Processing to know that.The quality of the recording affects the size of the file. The size of the file does tend to affect the time it takes to transfer the file.

[steve614]

Hello,

I agree that the TiVo unit is probably Muxing the files into the container but even when I De/Mux files with TMPGEnc or even VirtualDubMod Windows isn't that slow & neither should the TiVo be.

I've connected my TiVo to my home network via LAN (Ethernet) & I get 1st generation USB 2.0 speeds. Around 1MB/s download (From TiVo to Computer). That's pathetic when it should be 8 to 9MB/s.

I have no desire to do Wireless since Wireless is still pretty slow compared to Wired. I have transfered files from TiVo to TiVo, I'm using the Series 2 DT TiVos. The speed was blazingly fast. I cannot see how Muxing then sending to a Computer Ethernet at the same time could slow it down like that. I can Mux from one computer to another at the fast speeds I stated above with no problems. IF the TiVo is re-encoding the files on the fly I still don't see why it's so slow. It shouldn't matter the Quality a show is encoded at. I do enough Video Processing to know that.

My guess, a "special" Brand name Ethernet board is needed to get the speeds you get between 2 TiVos?? If that's true then I am a bit disappointed.

My Setup: TiVo Series 2 DT Operating System 8.3-01-2-649
eMachine T2200+ (I love AMD CPUs) 1.8Ghz with 1GB RAM.
400GB Barracuda Sygate Hard Drive.
Realtek RTL8139 Family PCI Fast Ethernet NIC.

As you can see there should be no reason for the slow transfer rates from the Ethernet connected TiVo to my Personal Computer. ;) Anyone have any ideas? Please don't say, "You need a special Ethernet board." hahah....well, okay, I just don't want THAT to be the answer, haha.

Thanks much, all. (I'm another whom cannot live without TiVo now!)
Yeah, Tivo to PC transfer is slow because of video/audio muxing and a low cost processor.
I assume that Tivo to Tivo transfers are faster because the Tivo doesn't have to do that conversion.

[SirRUSH]

The quality of the recording affects the size of the file. The size of the file does tend to affect the time it takes to transfer the file.

Hello, WayneCarter. After reading the forums a bit before posting it seems everyone keeps focusing on the quality of the recording and the file size. I'm not concerned with those details at all. What I'm talking about, purely, is transfer speed. The transfer speed is the exact same no matter the quality of the recording or file size.

The only thing left, that I'm wondering about then is TiVo requiring specific brand name Ethernet board to get 9MB (megabytes) a second? I've connected my 2 TiVos directly & and transfered files from one to another the speed was very fast. I don't have any other way to calculate it other than a stop watch. ;) Haha. The same files going to a personal computer are much slower.

This tells me that I'm in need of specific Ethernet or TiVo is Muxing/Re-Encoding on the fly. Muxing shouldn't cause that kind of slow down even with a bit slower processor, however, if it IS then I'll write TiVo & ask them to do all that before it sends in data (they probably wouldn't care, but no harm in asking). I don't think it's re-encoding because they've already encoded as it captures the video therefore doing all the watermarking or even MAK additions ahead of time. ...This is what I ponder anyway.

I've done muxing (VDubMod, TMPGEnc) with slow computers (400 Mhz or slower) & sending the data over a fast Ethernet & still got 9 to 10MB/s a second.

Another idea I'm starting to wonder about is...another form of DRM like is used on DVDs & Cable....is TiVo capping speedy transfers to only TiVo to TiVo?

What do you guys think? Thanks.

[SirRUSH]

Yeah, Tivo to PC transfer is slow because of video/audio muxing and a low cost processor.
I assume that Tivo to Tivo transfers are faster because the Tivo doesn't have to do that conversion.

The idea of a slow processor is nice, but I still have problems with that idea. Muxing doesn't require that much work. Keeping the muxing on 1 drive is a bit slower than doing it over 2 physical drives (most people don't realize the speed difference there, I found that out back in the 80s when I was using Amigas hard core, man, awesome machines!! Anyway..) You still don't need a really fast CPU to do it & send at fast speeds. However, I don't yet know Linux well enough to understand just how well it does some things & if it handles data better than Windows (XP).

Hmmm.... Maybe someone will chime in that knows more than we? I just hate limitations especially when I'm paying my hard earned money. I would be happier with transfer speeds around 5mb/s. I use Bandwidth Monitor Pro 1.30 for exact speeds and Firefox 2.0.0.4 does a nice job of averaging transfers (its just an excellent browser anyway).

Thanks again for your replies, it's appreciated.

[WayneCarter]

The idea of a slow processor is nice, but I still have problems with that idea. Muxing doesn't require that much work. Keeping the muxing on 1 drive is a bit slower than doing it over 2 physical drives (most people don't realize the speed difference there, I found that out back in the 80s when I was using Amigas hard core, man, awesome machines!! Anyway..) You still don't need a really fast CPU to do it & send at fast speeds. However, I don't yet know Linux well enough to understand just how well it does some things & if it handles data better than Windows (XP).Muxing doesn't require much processing, but conversion does. It is my understanding that transfers to a non-TiVo requires the data to be converted to a "public" form using the MAK code as a decryption key.

The transfer speed is the exact same no matter the quality of the recording or file size.Of course, but as you pointed out, almost everyone here is concerned with transfer time, which is dependent on file size. Frankly, I thought you were the OP responding to the repeated requests earlier in this thread for the quality and/or size of the files he was transferring. TiVo doesn't provide a bitrate metric for transfers, although the information can be dug out - so most users deal with transfer times, hence the requests for the applicable "quality" setting.

[CuriousMark]

The idea of a slow processor is nice, but I still have problems with that idea. Muxing doesn't require that much work. Keeping the muxing on 1 drive is a bit slower than doing it over 2 physical drives (most people don't realize the speed difference there, I found that out back in the 80s when I was using Amigas hard core, man, awesome machines!! Anyway..) You still don't need a really fast CPU to do it & send at fast speeds. However, I don't yet know Linux well enough to understand just how well it does some things & if it handles data better than Windows (XP).
The processor in all but the newest TiVos is very small, well under 250MHz and with no dedicated instructions for stream processing like an Intel chip has (SSL). It also has very little RAM. It is already nearly fully loaded before beginning to re-mux and encrypt a file destined for a computer. Yes, remuxing is fast, but remuxing and encrypting is enough to bring the processor nearly to its knees. The 648 and 649 TiVos are much faster. If you need the speed, get the newer hardware. If that isn't in your plans, then use one of the speedups mentioned above. I find that pausing a pre-recorded program on my 595 increases transfer rate by over 25%. You can search for my benchmarks if you want.

[SirRUSH]

Muxing doesn't require much processing, but conversion does. It is my understanding that transfers to a non-TiVo requires the data to be converted to a "public" form using the MAK code as a decryption key.

Of course, but as you pointed out, almost everyone here is concerned with transfer time, which is dependent on file size. Frankly, I thought you were the OP responding to the repeated requests earlier in this thread for the quality and/or size of the files he was transferring. TiVo doesn't provide a bitrate metric for transfers, although the information can be dug out - so most users deal with transfer times, hence the requests for the applicable "quality" setting.

I understand about the MAK, and am wondering if it is added to the container when being muxed or not. I usually use Firefox 2 to connect with the internal TiVo server but once in a while I'll use the Desktop software, but it seems I'm finding my answer in other forums. Such as "If you own a newer 540 model, you are currently out of luck. Tivo redesigned the series 2 (presumably to reduce manufacturing costs) but there were some side effects : network transfer rates where cut in half, the CC information could no longer be accessed in the TivoToGo files. Until Tivo addresses this latter problem in the 540 Tivo side software, there is nothing that can be done on the PC side." which without saying much sort of explains what happened. This was posted on 06-09-2005. I've also been looking for info about subtitles AND Closed Captioning as well.
Quality of recording matters to me as well, which leads into why I posted the way I did. I was seeing a great deal of focus on Quality being the factor of speed when it isn't. Unless, heh, dealing with Speed Limitations which we are. Argh!! Sorry about the way I came in, I'm definitely not the original poster, just very perturbed by the Ethernet transfer speeds when I could have just stuck with slow @!#$% USB 2.0 instead of spending extra cash on what I didn't need, hahaha.

**Sigh** .... I love the TiVo I now wish I'd done a bit more research between it and Comcast DVR. Thanks, WayneCarter, I appreciate your help. :D :D

[SirRUSH]

The processor in all but the newest TiVos is very small, well under 250MHz and with no dedicated instructions for stream processing like an Intel chip has (SSL). It also has very little RAM. It is already nearly fully loaded before beginning to re-mux and encrypt a file destined for a computer. Yes, remuxing is fast, but remuxing and encrypting is enough to bring the processor nearly to its knees. The 648 and 649 TiVos are much faster. If you need the speed, get the newer hardware. If that isn't in your plans, then use one of the speedups mentioned above. I find that pausing a pre-recorded program on my 595 increases transfer rate by over 25%. You can search for my benchmarks if you want.

I have the 649, hehe. Ahhh, yes, custom hardware. Hmm...low RAM, reminds me of the Amiga 500 which blazed just fine with 512MB of RAM. Still the best multi-tasking computers around. Anyway, I see many similarities between Amiga & Linux. I agree that the 694 is pretty quick, but even the 68060 (50 Mhz) / PowerPC 604E (200 Mhz) combo CPU for the Amiga could kick out awesome performance. Ehh, I'm going to catch myself here & stop....haha... Anyway, I'm not pleased with the transfer speeds to external computers, but I shall live with it with an eye open to changes from TiVo and other sources.

At least I can make XviD video and DVDs at "Best Quality" for my own archives which is better than VCR.

Thanks, CuriousMark, very much for your time. :D