ATSC, HD, and your S2

[Shawn95GT]

Recording from HD or ATSC STBs keeps coming up and I thought I 'd document what I did to make it happen with my HD ATSC tuner. I apologize in advance if it's painfully basic.:

What you need:
S2 Tivo (haven't tried on a DT)
ATSC Tuner
Some provider's channel lineup you can use for the ATSC tuner's channels

My setup:
540 S2 Tivo
Voom STB from the now defunct Voom DBS satellite service that still works for ATSC
Dish Network's channel lineup.
Analog cable (Cox)

First things first, get the ATSC tuner setup. Scan in your channels and tune to a channel so that you can get a picture from the box.

You chave to choose how you want your programming sources to get to the Tivo. I wanted the ATSC tuner on my composite inputs but if you like you can connect it to the RF (ch 3/4) input.

I've tested:
ATSC Tuner on S-video, analog cable via RF in.
ATSC Tuner on s-video, digital cable via RF ch 3/4.
ATSC Tuner on RF ch 3/4.

It all works, and so long as the remote codes don't step on each other you can run two STBS on the same Tivo. I guess that's why there are two IR blasters ;).

I chose to setup the ATSC tuner on composite in and analog cable on the RF input. I made all the connections and got to guided setup:

After putting in my zip code, I chose Satellite & Cable:
http://www.shawnz.com/TCF/ATSC002.jpg

The Tivo then sets up / makes a service connection. Once that is complete you choose your provider. I chose Dish Network as their 'low number' lineup aligns pretty good with my ATSC lineup:
http://www.shawnz.com/TCF/ATSC010.jpg

http://www.shawnz.com/TCF/ATSC011.jpg

http://www.shawnz.com/TCF/ATSC012.jpg

Do yourself a favor and say 'no' here. It defualts most of the sat channels un-checked then.:
http://www.shawnz.com/TCF/ATSC014.jpg

http://www.shawnz.com/TCF/ATSC015.jpg

[Shawn95GT]

I then completed Guided setup for the cable side of things:
http://www.shawnz.com/TCF/ATSC016.jpg

http://www.shawnz.com/TCF/ATSC019.jpg

One that's done, the Tivo does a check to see where your inputs are connected. It nailed the satellite (ATSC) on the first try:
http://www.shawnz.com/TCF/ATSC021.jpg

On the cable side, it didn't fair so well, but I think it's becuase my lineup shows a channel 1 that doesn't exist, thus the black screen. I saw discovery channel earlier, so I'm going to lie and say 'yes':
http://www.shawnz.com/TCF/ATSC022.jpg

Now you setup the IR blasters for your ATSC tuner. I used a Voom STB and it is a Motorola box, so choose other:

http://www.shawnz.com/TCF/ATSC023.jpg

Scroll down to and select Motorola:
http://www.shawnz.com/TCF/ATSC024.jpg

It will ask if you plugge din the IR blasters correctly, Then ask if you need ot hit enter after your channel numbers. I chose the defualt, 'no':
http://www.shawnz.com/TCF/ATSC026.jpg

[Shawn95GT]

The Tivo will then run some tests changing the channels. Now if it goes like mine did, the Tivo will try to tune invalid channel numbers. This is ok, just verify that the channel it's trying to enter is translating well to the STB. Mine went perfect every attempt:

http://www.shawnz.com/TCF/ATSC029.jpg

http://www.shawnz.com/TCF/ATSC032.jpg

http://www.shawnz.com/TCF/ATSC039.jpg

Alright cool, channel changing on the STB is set.

Now, if for whatever reason your STB isn't supported by Tivo, all hope isn't lost - it's just more of a pain. If you can use timers to change the channels and remember to set a timer on th eSTB to align with your SPs you'll be set. Otherwise, I hope you are just recording Lost and can leave the ATSC tuner on ABC ;).

From here finish Guided setup and let the Tivo make it's second call to go after the guide data.

Now all that's left it pruning the channel list to get rid of all but the locals from the satellite source. Messages and settings --> Settings --> Channels --> Channel List:
http://www.shawnz.com/TCF/ATSC052.jpg

Notice that my local lineup has the 'DT' channels too! :cool: Be sure to remove the duplicates too, such as my two sat channel 12's here:
http://www.shawnz.com/TCF/ATSC054.jpg

I leave the cable channels there for backup. You'll see how it works in a second.

[Shawn95GT]

Once done, go watch live TV. I hit '12' on the remote and up comes KPNXDT (12-1, NBC Phoenix):
http://www.shawnz.com/TCF/ATSC055.jpg

Hit '12' again and channel 12 from cable comes up (Channel 12, KPNX, NBC Phoenix):
http://www.shawnz.com/TCF/ATSC056.jpg

The Tivo seems to remember which '12' I used last so it works out pretty good. Just pay attention when setting up the SPs to use sat's channel 12 and you're set.

You'll notice the ATSC tuner's picture is squished into the 4:3 frame. When stretched back out on a 16:9 TV it renders correctly.

I'll post up some detials about the Voom box in a bit.

[gastrof]

I like the way your TiVo mentions UPN and the WB as national networks.

How....current. :D

[Shawn95GT]

For anyone else using Voom box, here is how to tweak for anamorphic or not on the SD outputs:

Press Voom --> green --> green on the Voom remote, select picture format:
http://www.shawnz.com/TCF/Voom003.jpg

Once in picture format - the second 'Wide to Narrow' option is what handles the 16:9 to 4:3. The 'squeeze' option will get you anamorphic on the SD outputs. Your other two options are 'letterbox' and 'crop', either of which might work out better if you have a 4:3 TV. The top option 'Narrow to Wide' handles how the 4:3 stuff is handled on the HD outputs. **Note** - the Wide to narrow option only work correctly once the output resolution is set to an HD resolution:
http://www.shawnz.com/TCF/Voom004.jpg

To set the output resolution, hit 'back' or if starting over hit Voom --> green --> green again and choose Installer menu, then Installation Wizard:
http://www.shawnz.com/TCF/Voom007.jpg

On this screen you can set the output resolution to 720p or 1080i - it doesn't matter which. For whatever reason it need to be set to one of these for the narrow to wide format to 'take'. This is also where you scan for local channels on the Voom box.

Don't forget to block channels as needed from the Voom box. To do so, hit Voom --> Green and then select 'Local Channels' in the mini-menu. Scroll through the channels and use the 'OK' button to hide / un-hide the channels.

[Shawn95GT]

I like the way your TiVo mentions UPN and the WB as national networks.

How....current. :D
Yeah - I guess they missed that screen in Guided setup ;).

At least the guide is right.

Shawn

[Shawn95GT]

I made this video a little while back but it shows how to scan for locals on the Voom box:

Scan for locals on Voom Box Video (http://www.shawnz.com/sg/Voom_scan_locals.wmv)

Shawn

[Adam1115]

The only thing.. some STB's require some sort of "dash" when tuning to say 4-1. I don't know how TiVo would handle that since it is expecting a Dish Network STB...

[Shawn95GT]

The only thing.. some STB's require some sort of "dash" when tuning to say 4-1. I don't know how TiVo would handle that since it is expecting a Dish Network STB...
Right. I'd venture to say 'most' do. If you're stuck with that you'll have to either always record one channel or use timers on the ATSC tuner.

Tivo could make life a LOT easier on S2 / ATSC folks if they'd release a Tivo branded ATSC tuner that connects to the S2s - maybe by USB. That'd rock.

The Voom boxes aren't perfect either, but they are inexpensive. Lots of bang for the buck. The big risk of the Voom boxes is whether they actually work for ATSC or not. If the seller can demonstrate that, you're set.

It's no S3, but it is VERY NICE a low-cost alternative for the OTA / ATSC market.

[Cygnus X-1]

Two quick questions:
1. Does Tivo have listings for all the digital sub channels? For example my local PBS has 17-1, 17-2, 17-3 and 17-4. Will they be in the Tivo listings or will I have to program them by date/time?

2. Does the Motorola box allow channel removal? I am hoping to just record from channel 17-3 so I figure I can remove 17-1 and 17-2 and when Tivo sends 17 it will just tune to 17-3.

I just wish Tivo would actually support a couple ATSC tuners. Not every Tivo user is rich.

[Shawn95GT]

Two quick questions:
1. Does Tivo have listings for all the digital sub channels? For example my local PBS has 17-1, 17-2, 17-3 and 17-4. Will they be in the Tivo listings or will I have to program them by date/time?

2. Does the Motorola box allow channel removal? I am hoping to just record from channel 17-3 so I figure I can remove 17-1 and 17-2 and when Tivo sends 17 it will just tune to 17-3.

I just wish Tivo would actually support a couple ATSC tuners. Not every Tivo user is rich.
1. - It depends on the lineup you choose. Most likely not :(.

2. - In my case the local PBS channel is analog channel 8. On ATSC 8-1 is PBS HD, 8-2 shows the same programming as analog channel 8, and 8-3 is public info. The Dish lineup doesn't' have PBS HD, but it does have the lineup for the SD PBS channel on 8-2. I 'hide' 8-1 and 8-3 and when the Tivo tunes channel 8 it gets 8-2. It sounds like what you describe would work.

For what it's worth, the Series 3 handles the digital sub channels beautifully, and for it's price tag it should. The way I see it, this shows that Tivo 'can' do it, assuming they publish a list a supported ATSC tuners or better yet release their own.

In the case of the Voom box it handles digital sub-channels kind of stupid. There is no '.' or '-' button. If you want 17-4 you tune 17 (17-1 comes up) and you hit channel up three times until 17-4 comes up :down: . It was my big annoyance with the box when I was using it directly. Things like this are probably why ATSC tuners are a pain for Tivo to support with 3rd party boxes.

[classicsat]

TiVo has the listings since they supply them to Series 3 and cable/satellite users.
It is just a matter of making a digital OTA lineup for the receiver.

[Shawn95GT]

TiVo has the listings since they supply them to Series 3 and cable/satellite users.
It is just a matter of making a digital OTA lineup for the receiver.
No doubt, but you are limited to whatever lineups are available to you. You can't currently get an ATSC lineup for a S2. That's what we are hoping for (and a supported ATSC tuner).

Shawn

[magnus]

Yep, that sure would be nice. I just called and cancelled DTV. So, it would be nice to get the guide data for all the other channels that I can get with my Voom box (OTA).

68-2 qubo... would be nice to have the guide data for it (so the kids could record it). Anyway, I can't complain too much since I'll be saving $70+ per month by not using DTV.

Thanks for the guide it's been a big help.


No doubt, but you are limited to whatever lineups are available to you. You can't currently get an ATSC lineup for a S2. That's what we are hoping for (and a supported ATSC tuner).

Shawn

[stevereis]

:up: Shawn95GT - Thanks for the step-by-step and followup on this. I must admit I read your earlier posts on using the Voom boxes but did not understand the significance until reading this latest thread. I am disappointed by the quality of the analog cable recording for some of the network feeds, especially on my Humax. An ATSC tuner is just what I wanted but I realized TiVo does not have support for any or for the digital sub-channels in the S2 guide data. Reading this thread helped me understand exactly why these Voom receivers are attractive to TiVo users:
- Guide Data for Dish locals maps to Voom channel tuning and
- these Moto boxes have remote codes supported by TiVo.

:D I just picked up a couple from ebay and plan to improve the quality of my recordings, at least for the network shows. This will be my motivation for installing a bigger attic antenna to replace the rabbit ears I use now. Now all I need is the ability to map clear QAM channels on the S3 (OK, throw in TTG and MRV for the S3 as well).

[stevereis]

I got one of my ebay voom boxes on Friday and did the setup this weekend. The biggest effort was getting the antenna mounted in the attic so I could get all the locals. I was lucky in that I could tap the antenna into a 2nd cable line that's no longer used and distribute the ATSC feed throughout the house (we recently went from a dual line A/B cable plant to single line).

I only had two minor issues on the setup
1) My Humax box re-booted when I selected the Motorola STB but it resumed Guided Setup from the same point.
2) Pruning the Dish lineup... Not sure how many Dish channels there are, but it's a bunch and my Humax seemed to be having some issue keeping track of all the data - the initial pruning didn't "take", so I had to redo, making the changes a few channels at a time.

So far so good. My wife was impressed with the improvement on her network shows. I left the Voom in letterbox mode so the family does not have to worry about changing the TV aspect ratio but it does mean even the SD shows do not fill the 16:9 screen.

[Shawn95GT]

I'm glad it's working out good for you.

Pruning the lineup is a pain and the other annoyance is that Dish changes their lineup seemingly weekly so you get a lot of 'your lineup has changed' messages. Aside from that it works pretty nice.

[chrisorth]

Thanks for your great guide on setting up voom to tune OTA signals! Wondering if anyone might have an idea why my Voom box will not tune in signal for channel 5 in Chicago (NBC). Voom doesn't find it during the scan of local channels, but finds all other local channels from my antenna. Interesting since using the tuner built into my LCD tv, this channel works just fine.

Any ideas?

[Throwback1]

Shawn-

Thanks for all your posts on Voom. You seem to be one the resident experts. I'm unable to detect any of the local digital signals on a Voom box I recently ebayed that was represented as fully active at the time of the shut down. It looks like the past user in fact was receiving his local OTA's from the displays, but when I scan for locals, nothing is detected. I have tried the "aim antenna" mode and manually plugged in the local stations (i.e. 3 for 3-1) to no avail either. Any ideas--I have tried multiple antennas (powered, unpowered, w/and w/o duplexer). I can get a signal on another box I have on my rooftop antenna. Thanks again for your info.

[Shawn95GT]

I'd take off the diplexer on the back of the box (if it's still there) and then connect your antenna to the f connector with the little grey handle on it (far right looking at the back of the unit).

The other problem it 'could' be is the software version. If it was on until Voom stopped broadcasting then this shouldn't be a problem. Before the very end the boxes were locked down to their DMA and would only receive whatever channels you were 'allowed' in your area. Later on they lifted this restriction.

I live in Phoenix and I sold one of mine a few years back to a guy in Kansas City. It worked just fine for him.

Verify you're on the right connector less the diplexor and we can go from there.

[kb7oeb]

Very nice, I can add from my experience that Dish works better than Directv because new Dish channels will not be added to the received channels list but directv channels will.

I've successfully used
LG LST-3510 responds to LG satellite codes, accepts 3 digit channels
Radio Shack Accurian Tuner responds to Pioneer cable box codes (must have selected cable lineup)

Does not work:
Samsung SIR-T451 responds to samsung satellite codes but only accepts two digit channel changes

I don't think tivo can support sub channels because few boxes allow direct tuning of them but I would like to see an ATSC lineup just so the unit doesn't have to sort through listing in the database for 1,000 channels when your only using 7 or 8.

[Mars]

Pruning the Dish lineup... Not sure how many Dish channels there are, but it's a bunch and my Humax seemed to be having some issue keeping track of all the data - the initial pruning didn't "take", so I had to redo, making the changes a few channels at a time.

I have found you can delete about 35 at a time, exit out and then go back in and continue. If you do much more than 35 it will loose all of the changes and sometimes lock up.

[c monkey]

Does anyone know if the Voom setup will work with a Samsung DTB-H260-F HDTV receiver?

or

Since Tivo will be putting out its new service update this summer for ATSC tuners for us S2 users, can I just use the Samsung tuner with the new update?

Thanks in advance.

[classicsat]

If you have both, you can try.
You can try other methods in the Series 2 CECB thread.

I cannot say if it will work, they are apparently aiming to primarily support the CECBs.

[sololebron]

Quick shout.
Great info from all you guys. Kudo's and thanks especially to Shawn95GT and Pcbrew.

My 2 cents- After cancelling those bloody Comcast-cable pirates, and DishTV not an option technically, the following works with my S2DT. I can accomplish the following:
1- watch TV just with DTV
2- watch and record Tivo programs - <DVDR must be powered ON>
3- burn to DVD Tivo-recorded programs
4- burn to DVD any program tuned on the DTV box or tuned from Tivo tuner.
5- watch any DVD I have.

I used an inexpensive antenna (RCA ANT1450 MultiDirectional), sent coax to DTV box (Digital Stream DTX9950 from the Shack). OUT From DTV, plugged coax to my RF-in jack on DVDR (Lite-On LVW-5115GHC+), also out from DTV box I used A/V Cable (rwy) into my S2DT. Then ran A/V cable OUT of my S2DT into my DVDR. Connecting to TV (old analog GE spacemaker TV/VHS), A.) ran A/V Cable OUT of my DVDR plugged into TV; B.) ran coax out of DVDR to RF-in jack on TV.

I then ran setup instructions from Shawn95GT above (dated 5/2/2007) as a satellite signal. (NOTE: the only difference on Satellite Box Brand, I used Tivo).

Yes, There are limitations to this setup and yes you only can record 1 show to Tivo, etc., etc, But wow, if you don't need (sic), or want Cable or refuse to pay the bastards, don't have lots of time for watching TV, or only enjoy watching OTA, (24 my favorite_. Or NFL games on Fox, CBS, NBC, ABC ... this could be your solution.

Hope this helps someone.

Power to the people, let's save the Republic, kick the bastards out!!!

[Jay_in_CA]

Now, if for whatever reason your STB isn't supported by Tivo, all hope isn't lost - it's just more of a pain. If you can use timers to change the channels and remember to set a timer on th eSTB to align with your SPs you'll be set.

Hi Shawn,
I sure hope you or someone else here can help - so I don't have to do the "more of a pain" solution.
I need the 5-digit Tivo IR code for my Magnavox (Funai) ZV450MW8 combo DVD-R/VCR unit. Reading through this (thank you!) and many user forums, I discovered that I can use the ATSC tuner within the Magnavox to ''push'' the digital channels through so that I can view through Tivo (Series 2, single tuner). Coax splits: directly in Tivo, and into Magnavox, then AV cables from Magnavox into Tivo. Yes, it's hooked up properly. Yes, I've lined up the IR cables properly. (No, not going to use a DTA or other STB.) Yes, I've gone through Guided Setup, basically ''tricking'' Tivo into thinking it has both Cable and Satellite inputs, where the digital channels from the Magnavox acts as the ''Satellite'' feed. Yes, I've tried dozens of codes through the Advanced Channel Changing menu already. If I could just put in the correct IR code into Tivo, then Tivo can change the channels on the Magnavox and solve my woes.
Unfortunately, none of the 10086 through 10103 codes that another poster offered as working with digital channels seem to work.
Thanks! Jay

[dcstager]

Check out this link for some good instructions too:

http://www.courtesan.com/tivo/dtv.html

[Jay_in_CA]

Check out this link for some good instructions too:
courtesan.com/tivo/dtv.html

Thanks - I've seen that page, but I don't want to go through all that hassle or extra costs. I just need 5 numbers, and problem solved!

[gastrof]

TiVos were never meant to control channel changes on VCRs.

I'd be very surprised if you ever found a code that'd work.

My suggestion?

Set the machine to record at the same time the TiVo is set to record, and let both machines turn themselves on at the same time.

I'd set the DVD/VCR machine to go about five minutes before the TiVo and end five minutes after. That way, no missing of a few seconds at the start or the end. Your source of audio and video is up and running when the TiVo begins, and will still be running after the TiVo shuts off.

This is very similar to what I've had to do with my digital converter box, which has its own event timer. I set the two machines to work in tandem, and everything usually works well.

The only hitch is when the local stations may mess up the clock time they transmit with the channel, which then throws off my digital converter's clock and its timer. So long as that doesn't happen to you, or if your VCR's clock isn't affected by such things, you should be fine.

As you know, using the "satellite" method to get your TiVo to work with an external OTA digital box isn't perfect, but it does work.

[Shawn95GT]

I'm actually surprised that the S2 doesn't flip out and kick on the MacroVision protection when hooked up this way. I tried hooking up a S2 via a VCR to a TV and it didn't like that one bit.

So I take you're actually using cable TV for the signal source (vs OTA) and are using the ATSC tuner to tune the QAM HD / digital clear channels?

This will work, just keep in mind that channel 10 is going to give IR '10' which will likely just bring up the analog cable channel unless you can re-map '10' to 121-34 or whatever the ATSC channel is on the Magnavox box.

I can't help with the remote code but before you run yourself ragged you need to be sure that it would do what you want even if it did have the code.

I've since retired this setup although it may be making a come-back in my kid's room to record some OTA cartoons. The S3s / THD just do an amazing job at this. The upgrade / retention deal for the THD made it's purchase a no-brainer. Even a S3/THD recording QAM channels isn't as painless as it should be. If they ever let us re-map the channels on the Tivo it'll be a non-issue.