So Long, TiVo

[roperdan]

So long, TiVo...

TiVo, for you and me it's been a good run, but our time together is over... This new pricing is the straw that breaks the camel's back. I have a series 2 box with a 1 year prepaid plan, and it expired 3 months ago. When I finally called to renew I was told I would have to buy another 1, 2, or 3 year plan or pay 19.95/month to keep the service. Are you crazy? What a total lack of commitment to your current customers.

The bottom line is that TiVo used to have a better product than competing Cable company DVRs but that time is over. The cable company DVRs now have the bugs worked out and offer better services such as ON DEMAND programing for between $9.99 to $12.99 per month and they do it IN HIGH DEFINITION and with duel tuners--WITH NO UP FRONT COST, and no yearly contract you have to sign. It seems obvious to me that the reason TiVo is now pushing these contracts is so they will hook the customer for a multiyear commitment before they realize they can get a better product from their cable company for MUCH CHEAPER.

Bad move TiVo, you should be undercutting the cable companies with cheaper prices to stay in the market, not raising your prices.

I'm not the only one that feels this way. Read the article titled "So Long, TiVo" in the May 8, 2007 issue of PC Magazine to get Sascha Segan's opinion.

Owner of a series 2 TiVo which is now collecting dust on a shelf in my basement while I watch High Def DVR TV from my Motorola DVR from Comcast.

[MikeMar]

We have a HD DVR from directv and it does the job but is VERY clunky and a pain in the you know what.

My parents just got a HD DVR from charter (think it's scientific atlantic or whatever) and it's decent but no where NEAR as smooth.

I still love watching things on our others boxes on our non-hd tv's.

If we had cable we would have a S3

[lexluther]

I happen to work for comcast and rumors have been going around that they have struck a deal with tivo and are working on a software update for their dvr boxes. This software update will basically turn your comcast dvr into a tivo less the nice remote. Look for this towards the end of this year

[Redux]

I happen to work for comcast and rumors have been going around that they have struck a deal with tivo and are working on a software update for their dvr boxes.Sounds like one of those wild unsubstantiated rumors you hear on the internet.

Yeah, Tivo & Comcast, thats likely. Next thing you know they'll be speculating about Tivo & Cox. Geeze.

[TracyMiller]

So long, TiVo...

TiVo, for you and me it's been a good run, but our time together is over... This new pricing is the straw that breaks the camel's back. I have a series 2 box with a 1 year prepaid plan, and it expired 3 months ago. When I finally called to renew I was told I would have to buy another 1, 2, or 3 year plan or pay 19.95/month to keep the service. Are you crazy? What a total lack of commitment to your current customers.

The bottom line is that TiVo used to have a better product than competing Cable company DVRs but that time is over.

So your 1 yr. prepaid plan is up, they offer you the options, you don't like them, so you bolt. Well, your choice, but read this:

Here's a list I recently thought up when comparing my TIVO Series 3 to my SA8300HD which I rented from Charter Cable for two agonizing years. The SA8300 is typical of these cable DVRs you speak highly of.

1) Season Passes. The 8300 HD of course lets you set recurring recordings, but you can't prioritize them like you can with TIVO. With TIVO, your higher preference recordings will get recorded in the case of conflicts.

2) Wishlists. TIVO will let you set Wishlists, like "Sitcoms" or "Scarlett Johansson", or "Atlanta Braves", and then you can peruse these as you like to see upcoming programs. You can even set Auto-Recording Wishlists, and your Wishlist items will record automatically. For example, I love poker, so I set up a Wishlist for "Poker", and TIVO will record any program it finds with poker somewhere in the description. Try THAT with the SA8300HD.

3) TIVO suggestions. TIVO will eventually catch on to the kind of stuff you like and start recording stuff for you. I love coming home and finding stuff TIVO has recorded for me. Sometimes I discover great shows this way. TIVO handles these shows intelligently (they never bump recordings you have setup, and get deleted if the drive gets full). Nothing even remotely like this on the 8300HD.

4) Recently Deleted Folder. This is entirely missing from the SA8300HD, if I recall. If you delete something and later wish you had not, you can retrieve your show. These shows get permantly deleted first, when the hard drive gets full.

5) 30 second skip. I love this button. Not officially supported, but works great. Not available on the SA8300HD.

6) Better video and audio quality.

7) It is a music and photo media server, meaning I can listen to my computer's MP3's and look at my photos using the TIVO. The 8300HD? Nope.

8) Podcasts. I can subscribe to any Podcast I choose using the TIVO and listen to them at my leisure. You guessed it - not available on the 8300HD.

9) TIVO remembers where I was when I stop watching a show. In fact, I can have multiple shows already started watching, and TIVO remembers where I left off with each of them. Like bookmarks, really. The 8300HD cannot do this.

10) Universal Swivel Search. This is very new, but I love it already. It lets you easily find shows similar to the one you are studying, and lets you link easily to other shows your favorite actors are in. I'm not doing this feature justice. You really have to see it in action. It's like having a direct link to an Imdb-type database.

11) The peanut remote is a thing of beauty. The keys are nicely backlit, with the words on the keys. There is a nice ribbing on the bottom so you easily tell which way is up in the dark. There is an aspect ration button. And most importantly, it is a learning remote, which means you can control your other devices. In fact, you can teach it some functions from the TIVO menu. Doing this alone I was able to control my TV's on/off, my stereo's volume, and the TIVO, of course.

12) Weather and traffic updates. No such thing on the SA8300HD.

13) TIVOcasts, which are video podcasts. Not a lot of content yet, but I love CNET and The Onion. They keep adding new TIVOcasts. MIA on the 8300HD.

14) Search by Title is MUCH better on the TIVO. IIRC, on the 8300HD you could only search by title on one specific day at a time. The TIVO will let you search your entire lineup for the next two weeks. Also, you can filter your search, or your guides, for that matter, by HD shows only.

15) Two weeks of guide data instead of one.

16) My 8300HD occassionally would not record something. When it did this, it would offer no explanation. TIVO has a handy recording history that explains why a certain show may not have recorded.

17) Show padding. TIVO will prompt you to pad live shows by minutes or even hours so you don't miss that last hour of the Academy Awards.

18) Intelligent conflict resolution. If, because of show overruns, a conflict occurs, TIVO will shave a few minutes off your lower priority show. Example (Dual Tuners assumed): Show A runs from 8:00-9:00. Shows B and C run from 9:00 to 10:00. If Show A ends up running until 9:02, most DVR's (including the TIVO of yore), will actually not record either show B or C in their entirety. The new TIVO will make a decision based on your shows' priorities, and will shave minutes off the lowest priority show. For example, if Show A is the lowest priority, it will cut off the last two minutes, and record B & C in their entirety. If Show B is the lowest priority, it will clip the first two minutes of it to catch all of Shows A and C. But you'll still get 58 minutes of Show B.

19) I can schedule recordings from the internet with TIVO. Can't with the SA8300.

20) I can download movies from Amazon Unbox if I choose. Not available with the 8300, although I did have on-demand capabilities with it.

Maybe I didn't convince you, but you'll find out yourself once you try some of these cable DVRs.

[MonkeyBoy668]

If there's one thing that really annoys me about Tivo, it's that their ToDo list takes too long to update.

This weekend I made a season pass so I could catch the Heroes marathon on SciFi. I never caught the show during it's normal run, friends told me they thought I'd like it, so I wanted to give it a shot. I didn't set this temporary season pass to be #1 in the list, I just added it to the end, then overrode the couple higher priority passes. (I setup season passes for those shows on my 2nd Tivo)

This worked great, except that those two shows repeated later in the night. Because the ToDo list takes time to update, when I overrode the first showing, it hadn't figured out that it was going to shift that show to the later time. As a result Tivo returned a screen that incorrectly told me that it would be recording all 21 episodes.

Looking back I shouldn't have trusted Tivo to return accurate information. Perhaps it's a testament to how well it works under normal circumstances that once it was setup, once I saw that every episode was checked, that I never looked at it again. Until it was too late. (sigh)

[roperdan]

So your 1 yr. prepaid plan is up, they offer you the options, you don't like them, so you bolt. Well, your choice, but read this:

Here's a list I recently thought up when comparing my TIVO Series 3 to my SA8300HD which I rented from Charter Cable for two agonizing years. The SA8300 is typical of these cable DVRs you speak highly of.

1) Season Passes. The 8300 HD of course lets you set recurring recordings, but you can't prioritize them like you can with TIVO. With TIVO, your higher preference recordings will get recorded in the case of conflicts.

Inaccurate for me...

2) Wishlists. TIVO will let you set Wishlists, like "Sitcoms" or "Scarlett Johansson", or "Atlanta Braves", and then you can peruse these as you like to see upcoming programs. You can even set Auto-Recording Wishlists, and your Wishlist items will record automatically. For example, I love poker, so I set up a Wishlist for "Poker", and TIVO will record any program it finds with poker somewhere in the description. Try THAT with the SA8300HD.

Correct

3) TIVO suggestions. TIVO will eventually catch on to the kind of stuff you like and start recording stuff for you. I love coming home and finding stuff TIVO has recorded for me. Sometimes I discover great shows this way. TIVO handles these shows intelligently (they never bump recordings you have setup, and get deleted if the drive gets full). Nothing even remotely like this on the 8300HD.

Correct

4) Recently Deleted Folder. This is entirely missing from the SA8300HD, if I recall. If you delete something and later wish you had not, you can retrieve your show. These shows get permantly deleted first, when the hard drive gets full.

correct

5) 30 second skip. I love this button. Not officially supported, but works great. Not available on the SA8300HD.

Correct

6) Better video and audio quality.

subjective

7) It is a music and photo media server, meaning I can listen to my computer's MP3's and look at my photos using the TIVO. The 8300HD? Nope.

correct but Cable has the MUSIC Choice channels

8) Podcasts. I can subscribe to any Podcast I choose using the TIVO and listen to them at my leisure. You guessed it - not available on the 8300HD.

For me my computer is hooked to my stereo so I do this anyway.

9) TIVO remembers where I was when I stop watching a show. In fact, I can have multiple shows already started watching, and TIVO remembers where I left off with each of them. Like bookmarks, really. The 8300HD cannot do this.

Inaccurate for me

10) Universal Swivel Search. This is very new, but I love it already. It lets you easily find shows similar to the one you are studying, and lets you link easily to other shows your favorite actors are in. I'm not doing this feature justice. You really have to see it in action. It's like having a direct link to an Imdb-type database.

Correct

11) The peanut remote is a thing of beauty. The keys are nicely backlit, with the words on the keys. There is a nice ribbing on the bottom so you easily tell which way is up in the dark. There is an aspect ration button. And most importantly, it is a learning remote, which means you can control your other devices. In fact, you can teach it some functions from the TIVO menu. Doing this alone I was able to control my TV's on/off, my stereo's volume, and the TIVO, of course.

Cable has a universal remote that controls 3 components.

12) Weather and traffic updates. No such thing on the SA8300HD.

Available on comcasst menu

13) TIVOcasts, which are video podcasts. Not a lot of content yet, but I love CNET and The Onion. They keep adding new TIVOcasts. MIA on the 8300HD.

Cable's ON DEMAND is WAY better than TiVo here

14) Search by Title is MUCH better on the TIVO. IIRC, on the 8300HD you could only search by title on one specific day at a time. The TIVO will let you search your entire lineup for the next two weeks. Also, you can filter your search, or your guides, for that matter, by HD shows only.

Inaccurate for me

15) Two weeks of guide data instead of one.

I get 2 weeks

16) My 8300HD occassionally would not record something. When it did this, it would offer no explanation. TIVO has a handy recording history that explains why a certain show may not have recorded.

Correct

17) Show padding. TIVO will prompt you to pad live shows by minutes or even hours so you don't miss that last hour of the Academy Awards.

inaccurate for me

18) Intelligent conflict resolution. If, because of show overruns, a conflict occurs, TIVO will shave a few minutes off your lower priority show. Example (Dual Tuners assumed): Show A runs from 8:00-9:00. Shows B and C run from 9:00 to 10:00. If Show A ends up running until 9:02, most DVR's (including the TIVO of yore), will actually not record either show B or C in their entirety. The new TIVO will make a decision based on your shows' priorities, and will shave minutes off the lowest priority show. For example, if Show A is the lowest priority, it will cut off the last two minutes, and record B & C in their entirety. If Show B is the lowest priority, it will clip the first two minutes of it to catch all of Shows A and C. But you'll still get 58 minutes of Show B.

Correct

19) I can schedule recordings from the internet with TIVO. Can't with the SA8300.

Correct

20) I can download movies from Amazon Unbox if I choose. Not available with the 8300, although I did have on-demand capabilities with it.

Again ON DEMAND is way better, and often FREE.

Maybe I didn't convince you, but you'll find out yourself once you try some of these cable DVRs.

There certaintly are things that TiVo does better than cable. The point is, however, are those differences worth $800 plus $18/month verses $11.95 from the cable company company. Some will think that it is worth it, others will not. For many more the cost of a series 3 TiVo puts that choice completely out of reach.

Regarding the list of differences in DVRs, each company and each area will have different features. In Grand Rapids Michigan, the DVR from Comcast has been upgraded within the last year to include many features that your old DVR seems to not have, the most significant of which is "ON DEMAND" which gives me immediate access to hundreds of movies and TV shows (many in HD) and many of them are FREE. (All movies on premium channels you subscribe to are free ON DEMAND.)

[TracyMiller]

There certaintly are things that TiVo does better than cable. The point is, however, are those differences worth $800 plus $18/month verses $11.95 from the cable company company. Some will think that it is worth it, others will not. For many more the cost of a series 3 TiVo puts that choice completely out of reach.



I certainly understand that the money can be a deal-breaker. If you do reconsider and decide to get a TIVO series 3, they're offering a rebate of $200 now that, depending on where you get it, could make the price around $400. And if you prepay for 3 years at $299 that averages about $8.31/month for the service. Over 3 years, that means a total of about $19.44/month. If your unit makes it 6 years, and you get the same 3/yr. deal at the end of your first 3/yr. period, that would be $13.89/month.

[Redux]

if you prepay for 3 years at $299 that averages about $8.31/month for the service. Over 3 years, that means a total of about $19.44/month. If your unit makes it 6 years, and you get the same 3/yr. deal at the end of your first 3/yr. period, that would be $13.89/month.I think you are highlighting the reason Tivo is doomed if they don't dumb down. The typical consumer is not going to figure things out.

[TracyMiller]

I think you are highlighting the reason Tivo is doomed if they don't dumb down. The typical consumer is not going to figure things out.

I do agree it's not as simple as it could be, but I don't think it's all that different from cell phone plans. Most people understand they have to pay for the phone and then pay for a monthly plan, that in most cases costs a lot more than TIVO is asking for.

[wolflord11]

Tivos move also towards the Series 3 is fine...if you have Cable.

Tivo is moving away from at least 50% of its customers who use SAT.

So I will be moving more towards Units offered by my SAT company.

And, moving to Cable just to still have Tivo is not affordable. It would cost nearly twice as much each Month for the service, and alot to update all my equipment. Even 3 of the Cable Companies DVR's would cost me $30 a Month in lease fees alone!

So as Tivo moves more and more towards Cable, I sadly will be moving away from Tivo :(

[purefct]

I'm in the same boat as wolflord11. Cancelled my second S2 and added a DT HD DVR six months ago. I paid $200 and $5.99/mo, compare that to Tivo at what? OK, I still like the Tivo interface better but we are in the HD world now. I use my S2 to record SD and DT to record HD. Due to the HUGE difference in monthly fees (my S2 is lifetime so this doesn't apply) I'm more likely to add another DT HD DVR than Tivo. Sure I miss being able to transfer shows, but not enough to pay that difference ... not to mention Tivo doesn't have a HD product I can use.

[Hollywood49]

Just curious...if I were to cancel the Tivo service, will it still work as far as manual recording goes (i.e. start recording on channel 5 at 5PM, end at 6:05PM)? I am moving shortly, and would like to get HD stations at my new house to finally take advantage of having a plasma TV that I've had since December (I have an antenna to get some local stations, but I can only get 4 stations), and am considering picking up the Charter DVR in order to get regular cable and HDTV in the same box (yes, I know the new HD Tivos can do this as well, but the whole cablecard issue really turns me off to using them). I have no desire to pay upfront costs for a box, PLUS service, PLUS a cablecard, when I can just get a box from Charter (paying less), and not have to worry about issues between the cablecard and HD Tivo box. I love the Tivo interface and fuctionality...but not enough to pay through the nose for it.

Also, if one has a Tivo without service, does TivoToGo still work as far as transferring shows to the PC? This is the main reason I initially went with Tivo as opposed to a cable DVR. The vast majority of things that TracyMiller posted above, I simply don't care about. Wishlists, Swivel Search, media server, podcasts, TIVOcasts, weather...I use absolutely none of those things. I have used the Amazon unbox thing a few times, but the download times are so ridiculously long that cable's "On Demand" function becomes a huge plus for the cable DVR.

[purefct]

Let's see ...
1) cancel the Tivo service, you can manually record but the recording is labeled by chanel and time, and only records 30 minutes if I remember correctly.
2) Regarding "and not have to worry about issues between the cablecard and HD Tivo box", the Tivo HD is an integrated solution I thought since the cable card is in the Tivo unit. If I'm correct you will not have the two unit issues. I thought this was kind of like the Tivo/DirecTv combo units.
3) Reg "does TivoToGo still work" - No. The only thing that works is being able to have your Tivo change the other box's channels (it does so blindly since you do not receive any channel info on the Tivo), provide the 30 minute buffer, and manually record for 30 minutes (you can also manually schedule a recording, but the last time I did this it only recorded 30 minutes).

[purefct]

BTW, I cancelled a subscription on my non-lifetime Tivo last year due to my displeasure with an issue with Tivo. For about a year I used my non-subscription Tivo for the above listed uses but last month I replaced it with a DirecTv HD DVR. DirecTv does a good job, but I miss the Tivo features. DTV said in a phone conversation they will be rolling out a lot of new HD channels this quarter and adding more features to compete with Tivo.

But the best news of all is I only pay $4.99/mo for the extra receiver/DVR and nothing extra for DVR services. I use 5 DTV receivers - 2 are HD and 2 are HD DVR. That's a tough model for Tivo to compete with (nothing extra for DVR services).

[nick1817]

The Direct TV DVR (HR-20) made a ton of strides, and I'd probably still have it if I hade a line of sight at my new apt.

It incorporated almost everything the Tivo does. The 30 sec skip, remote booking, VOD, conflict resolution, etc.

Having just gotten a Tivo, the things that set it apart from the HR-20 is UnBox from Amazon and the better menu system(s). Plus, I love the noises Tivo makes.

But, if I still had D*, I'd still ahve the HR-20/HR-15 boxes and no Tivos. JMHO

[megazone]

If it is a Series2, Series3, or TiVo HD - it is a doorstop without a subscription. No recording, period. Not even manual. I believe you can still watch recordings made previously, and watch LiveTV with basic trickplay, but that's it.

And *all* networking features are disabled except for the basic call home to check for a subscription - no TTG, MRV, HME, etc.

The only exceptions are the DVD combo units from Pioneer and Toshiba, which revert to TiVo Basic - which doesn't have any networking either.

The old Series1 units can be used for manual recordings without a sub.

[Hollywood49]

That sucks...I guess I'll just sell it then. TivoToGo is an awesome feature, but it's just not enough to keep me paying for two different units.

[megazone]

Do you have the MSD discount on one?

[Hollywood49]

Multi-service discount? Nah, I only have one Series 2 DT unit.

[Dr_Diablo]

Another sad fact is that of paying $800 for a Tivo two months ago an here the price is listed at $399... That is sad...

One more reason I'm going back to DirecTV... Byee Byee Tivo

[purefct]

Yes, but $800 to be an early adopter - not a Tivo gouging.

[megazone]

Another sad fact is that of paying $800 for a Tivo two months ago If you paid $800 for an S3 two months ago, you're a sucker and/or a fool. They've been available for under $600 for many months, and have dipped under $500, and are now under $400 (after rebate).

Plus the TiVo HD has been out a while now for under $300.

Anyone who paid full MSRP on a S3 that recently is clearly not a savvy shopper.

[bapeterson]

I just got a TIVO HD a few weeks ago and part of my decision was based on price. Comcast would only lease their DVR if you had a "silver" level subscription (versus digital basic which is what I have). The annual fee increase to add silver level service and get the DVR was $500 a year. I can buy a TV box for $300 and get a 3 year subscription for another $300 --- over a 3 year period the TIVO is 40% of the cost from Comcast ( Plus I do think the interface is better and the wifi interface is great)