Tivo S3 and Sony XBR2 or XBR3

[Carlos_E]

Anyone here have a Sony XBR2 or 3? I'm wondering which does a better job at conversion. The series 3 or an XBR2 or 3.

How do you have the Tivo setup? Is the Tivo set to pass the native signal and let the XBR do the conversion? Or did you set it up having the Tivo output a set resolution?

[bareyb]

I let the Tivo upconvert to 1080i. This gets rid of some of the lag time between resolution changes on the TV.

[astrohip]

I have both an XBR2 and XBR3. After much study, I decided I couldn't tell the difference between the S3 scaling/converting, and the TV doing it. I'm sure some will argue the finer points of one or the other, but it all looks good to me. :D

What decided it for me? When you leave the S3 on native, it sends the raw signal to the XBR. And every time the TV gets a different resolution (720, 1080, SD, etc), it goes thru a two second jitter while it adjusts to the new signal. That drove me crazy. It even does it when you are watching a 1080 show, and hit the TiVo button. As the menus are 720. So going between the menus & 1080i shows caused the jitter. I have heard some people say the jitter doesn't bother them. It drove me nuts.

Since I really couldn't tell the difference, I set the S3 to 1080i Fixed. No more jitter. And the picture sure seems crispy to me. :up:

You can always run your own demo, and see if you can tell the difference. And to see if the jitter bothers you.

Great TV, by the way. Does a phenom job, no glare, deep colors, yada yada. And the S3 is the closest thing to heaven on earth. You'll love the combo!

[TostitoBandito]

Anyone here have a Sony XBR2 or 3? I'm wondering which does a better job at conversion. The series 3 or an XBR2 or 3.

How do you have the Tivo setup? Is the Tivo set to pass the native signal and let the XBR do the conversion? Or did you set it up having the Tivo output a set resolution?

I have a 46XBR2 and use native. The scalar in the TV is excellent (it's a lot of what you are paying for versus lower-end Sony models). I don't mind the two second pause when changing resolutions since channel surfing is a thing of the past (for me at least). Add that to the fact that though it may be small and in some cases unnoticable, there is certainly a loss when you scale the source image. Doing it more than once (as you do when you scale at the DVR and at the TV) multiplies this loss.

[Carlos_E]

I have a Sony 40XBR1 and the scalar in the S3 is MUCH better upscaling SD material. I'm wondering if the XBR2 & 3 does a better job of it. I'm upgrading to a 46XBR3 the end of May. It's a birthday present for myself. :)

[bareyb]

I have a Sony 40XBR1 and the scalar in the S3 is MUCH better upscaling SD material. I'm wondering if the XBR2 & 3 does a better job of it. I'm upgrading to a 46XBR3 the end of May. It's a birthday present for myself. :)
I thought the S3 passed 430 though in Native mode and only upscaled 720 to 1080... :confused:

[bkdtv]

What decided it for me? When you leave the S3 on native, it sends the raw signal to the XBR. And every time the TV gets a different resolution (720, 1080, SD, etc), it goes thru a two second jitter while it adjusts to the new signal. That drove me crazy. It even does it when you are watching a 1080 show, and hit the TiVo button. As the menus are 720. So going between the menus & 1080i shows caused the jitter. I have heard some people say the jitter doesn't bother them. It drove me nuts.The length of the sync depends on your display. Some do it in 0.5 seconds, others take 4.0 seconds.

I do wish Tivo would make one common-sense change. When native is selected, I wish they would display the menu using the last resolution selected, to eliminate resyncing with menus. For example, if you are watching a 480i channel, they should display the menus in 480i widescreen; if you are watching a 720p channel, they should display the menus in 720p widescreen; and if you are watching a 1080i channel, they should display the menus in 1080i widescreen.

As far as 720p->1080i conversion inside the Tivo:The results of 720p->1080i conversion in one STB may be different from 720p->1080i conversion in another. Since the processors in these boxes are cheap, with limited computational power, they almost always take the simplest approach.

One implementation could simply drop every other frame from the 720p60 source to create a 720p30 signal. That 720p30 signal could then be converted to 720i60 with a 2:2 cadence, keeping the full resolution of the source intact. Every frame could be delivered in two 1280x360 parts, each scaled to 1920x540. The benefit of this approach is that it would preserve the full resolution of the original signal -- assuming your TV had deinterlace circuitry that could detect the 2/2 cadence --- at the expense of fluid motion. Dropping every other frame would probably result in some jerky video, especially during sports.

The other --and more likely -- alternative would provide for more fluid motion, but at the expense of some resolution. This approach would interlace the 720p60 source (=720i120) and drop every other field, rather than every other frame, to produce a 720i60 signal. Since every field would be from a separate point in time, separated by 1/60th of a second, they wouldn't match up to create a 1280x720p frame. Actual source resolution seen on your screen would vary between 1280x720p and 1280x360p, depending on the amount of movement on your screen, and the quality of the video deinterlace circuitry in your TV. With a 2007 LCD or plasma from a major manufacturer, the average resolution seen at a given instant would probably be in the range of 1280x540p during motion, but closer to 1280x720p on static scenes. On older displays that bob, effective resolution would be closer to 1280x360p.

The good news is that video processors are continually improving, and within a few years, these improvements should start to filter down to STBs and DVRs.

[HDTiVo]

I do wish Tivo would make one common-sense change. When native is selected, I wish they would display the menu using the last resolution selected, to eliminate resyncing with menus.
That is such a great idea, especially since the menus are nothing but the old 4x3 ones streched out to 16x9. Doing 480i Wide would probably trigger the XBR's auto-wide and display fullscreen 16x9.

I use 1080i hybrid to avoid HD switching while letting the TV's auto-wide feature work for me on SD content. The real annoyance is fumbling with all the remotes to get aspect ratios right.

[Carlos_E]

I thought the S3 passed 430 though in Native mode and only upscaled 720 to 1080... :confused:
The 40XBR1 is native 720p so I have the S3 set to output 720p only. The S3 does a much better job upscaling SD than the XBR1. I'm upgrading to an XBR3 so I wondered if the XBR3 does a better job than the S3.

[cokyq]

I have an older Sony KF-50XBR800 and tried both ways and could not tell the difference in quality. I ended up letting the TIVO do the 1080i, to avoid the annoying lines when the TV does resolution changes.

[HDTiVo]

The 40XBR1 is native 720p so I have the S3 set to output 720p only. The S3 does a much better job upscaling SD than the XBR1. I'm upgrading to an XBR3 so I wondered if the XBR3 does a better job than the S3.
The XBR2&3 are much better than the XBR1. The scaling is comparable to the S3, so I wouldn't want to say one is better than the other. The good news is EVRYTHING you watch is going to look terrific.

I noticed the other day that Amazon's price for the 46" came down to $190 above the 40" ($2499). Happy Birthday.

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I checked back. Its up to $2599. The 40XBR2 is still $10 more than I paid at the end of December. These prices change so fast.

[Carlos_E]

The XBR2&3 are much better than the XBR1. The scaling is comparable to the S3, so I wouldn't want to say one is better than the other. The good news is EVRYTHING you watch is going to look terrific.

I noticed the other day that Amazon's price for the 46" came down to $190 above the 40" ($2499). Happy Birthday.

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I checked back. Its up to $2599. The 40XBR2 is still $10 more than I paid at the end of December. These prices change so fast.
I work for Sony corp so I'm purchasing using my employee discount. The price I'm getting is better than Amazon. :)

[HDTiVo]

I work for Sony corp so I'm purchasing using my employee discount. The price I'm getting is better than Amazon. :)
Good, because today its $2749. :rolleyes: