SDV in Denver and Nj [Text View]

View Full Version : SDV in Denver and Nj

caddyroger

04-27-2007, 02:25 PM

Comcast is testing SDV in parts of Denver and NJ. Here is the link.
http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=122733&site=cdn

squiredogs

04-28-2007, 05:39 AM

suzook

04-28-2007, 06:41 AM

Crap. I'm in South Jersey. What's the turnaround for this kind of field trial? I have a (foolishly) lifetimed S3. I was hoping for 4 years to break even, but I'll sell it when the timing is right. At least the SDV markets should be the first to get ComcasTiVo's, I'd hope.

based on the article, you probably have a long way to go. it has just started testing in the lab. enjoy your tivo and dont worry too much. i have heard sdv is still not working well at all. i would say it is years away, if ever. cable companies are having problems with sdv. if too many people are on the node, and you try to tune to that channel,guess what? no picture. cable companies are worried because customers now have a greater selection of services. the big one they are worried about is fios. fios has unbelievable bandwidth available to them. if sdv fails, cable companies will HAVE to rewire their network to include fiber to the home. the copper coax from the node to the house is what is holding them back. this dilema is a benefit to us, the consumer. we now have choices.

ah30k

04-28-2007, 08:14 AM

At least the SDV markets should be the first to get ComcasTiVo's, I'd hope.I'd propose just the opposite. The software on the STB that will control the switching protocols may be low on the priority list (behind things like actually recording and watching shows :) ) for the TiVo teams.

morac

04-28-2007, 09:54 AM

squiredogs

04-28-2007, 10:07 AM

I guess I'd be OK with anything they do as long as I can keep the S3 and the HD channels, specifically the major networks, HBO, and the two ESPN's I currently have. And hey, maybe FIOS will get down here too (I'm down by A.C.).

It doesn't sound like they would want to switch the popular channels, if high usage causes a problem. Thanks for the stress relief, guys.

Love the S3, BTW. Been working great for a long while now -

MichaelK

04-30-2007, 02:06 PM

I'd propose just the opposite. The software on the STB that will control the switching protocols may be low on the priority list (behind things like actually recording and watching shows :) ) for the TiVo teams.

I could be wrong (it's happened before!)- but I believe both require headend upgrades to or concurrently with OCAP (or something like it). Comcastivo we already no works on an almost OCAP middleware and SDV would need to be able to download an app to the boxes no?

scuttlebutt at AVS has had it for some time now that the Union NJ system would be one of the first 3 to do field trials of OCAP. So I'd think it's a reasonable to think the Union NJ system is trying OCAP and SDV and will get comcastivo pretty soon.

Of course it could be that that would completely complicate everything as SDV and comcastivo are OCAP-lite so maybe they do OCAP in Union, with SDV on another headend and comcastivo's elsewhere.....

MichaelK

04-30-2007, 02:20 PM

Lucky me. :(

suzook, the same thing could be said about VOD services. If every subscriber tried to use it all at once it would fail. I have yet to see VOD ever fail when I try it. In fact a few channels' programming are only available through VOD. Changing to a specific channel number will open up that channel's VOD listings (FearNet for example).

I'm pretty sure that FIOS is one of the reasons that Comcast chose to test in NJ, since Verizon is rapidly deploying in the state (just not in my area).

good point about FIOS being a potential driver..

About overloading the system- if you do it wisely you could set up a system that is impossible to crash. Or more likely for a lot less money a system that would be 5 or 6 nine's safe.

The most tv's are on in primetime. (hence "primetime")- if you check the nielsen ratings you can see that a sizable portion of all tv's are tuned to the big 4 broadcast networks plus maybe the next 10 cable channels. So you Put maybe those top 20 channels always one. Then you figure out how many tv's are on each node- say 150 houses and 400 tv's for argument sake. Then you break out your stats.

Get your bean counter to figure out the max number of tv's to be on at anyone point in time. As an example call it 75% of the 400 tv's and you get 300 sets. Then you find the stat for at that time of the day when 75% are turned on what percentage of people are watching programs on those 20 always on channels. Lets say it's 50% of the 300 sets turned on or 150.

So you get 400 tv's per node. Only 300 on at peak. At peak 150 of those are tuned to the 20 always on channels. Means you have 150 other people potentially wanting to watch something switched. You get your statistician to figure out how many choices those people might pick and considering each node largely serves similar socioeconomic classes and likely just one or 2 dominant ethnicity's (since foreign programming is a driver for SDV to some extent) and the stat guy might tell you you need to have 80 SD and 20 HD channels available for switched. Divide that into 6 SD and 2 HD for QAM and you get 14+10 or 24 QAM slots needed for a 150 home NODE. If I recall comcast is dumping like 60 analog slots in Chicago so that would easily cover 24 SDV needed slots for the above example.

Obviously you need to do the real math with numbers that I didn't pull out of my rear but you can figure out how to assign bandwidth to make it work to some number with a lot of nines percent of the time.

So if they do it right than it's a very intelligent use of bandwidth. Unfortunately it screws cablecard users....

MichaelK

04-30-2007, 02:29 PM

....And hey, maybe FIOS will get down here too (I'm down by A.C.).

...-

dont want to get too far off topic but for you guys in NJ wondering what towns get fiber tv - here's the offical list from the first filing:

http://www.njslom.org/Verizon_Municipalities.pdf

316 towns on that first list (no delran - sorry morac)

They supposedly jacked the list up to 340+ but I dont know where that new list is.

RIght now I think they have 160+ towns. WIth 200 promised by year end. And I think the original 316 have to be online in 2 years from the application (q4 last year was app so Q4 2008 would be deadline ).

ah30k

04-30-2007, 03:22 PM

I could be wrong (it's happened before!)- but I believe both require headend upgrades to or concurrently with OCAP (or something like it).Comcast/Moto headends will not require OCAP to roll out SDV. They will require headend equipment upgrades, just not OCAP related.

MichaelK

04-30-2007, 03:38 PM

Comcast/Moto headends will not require OCAP to roll out SDV. They will require headend equipment upgrades, just not OCAP related.

see I told you I am wrong lots!

:)

thanks for the facts.

morac

04-30-2007, 05:34 PM

316 towns on that first list (no delran - sorry morac)
Yeah I know. :(

What's frustrating is I know they ran the fiber lines on the poles right past my development (hard to miss the new wires on the poles). So I'm within a few hundred yards of FIOS, but it won't get here any time soon.

In the meantime the temperature outside is rising and my cable signals are starting to go into the toilet as they do every summer causing TV pixelation and modem snafus (modem: -14 dbMv down, SNR 31, 50 dbMv up power). It's the physics of copper. Fiber optics are immune.

MichaelK

04-30-2007, 08:41 PM

Yeah I know. :(

What's frustrating is I know they ran the fiber lines on the poles right past my development (hard to miss the new wires on the poles). So I'm within a few hundred yards of FIOS, but it won't get here any time soon.

In the meantime the temperature outside is rising and my cable signals are starting to go into the toilet as they do every summer causing TV pixelation and modem snafus (modem: -14 dbMv down, SNR 31, 50 dbMv up power). It's the physics of copper. Fiber optics are immune.

maybe you are in that 20+ batch to bring it to 240+

(think positive)

I'm screwed myself. All around me is Verizon territory but Flemington/Raritan Township has crappy Embarq as the local telco. Last year when they were Sprint they upgraded us from string and tin cans to copper but they think fiber is related to breakfast cereal so there's no chance of telco tv here anytime soon.

samo

04-30-2007, 09:15 PM

I'm pretty sure that FIOS is one of the reasons that Comcast chose to test in NJ, since Verizon is rapidly deploying in the state (just not in my area).

If that is true, then why second market is Denver? Denver will never have FIOS or Verizon (well, not in observable future anyhow).

ah30k

04-30-2007, 10:13 PM

I think you guys are starting to read too much into these trial locations.

SDV is a new technology rollout and is likely set more for internal logistic reasons such as regional labs than trying to head-off some Verizon rollouts. I believe the quote was that they were doing initial trials with friendlies. This would need easy access to labs and a large number of employees. Denver is near their western offices and labs and NJ is near their Philadelphia offices & labs.

suzook

05-01-2007, 05:08 AM

dont want to get too far off topic but for you guys in NJ wondering what towns get fiber tv - here's the offical list from the first filing:

http://www.njslom.org/Verizon_Municipalities.pdf

316 towns on that first list (no delran - sorry morac)

They supposedly jacked the list up to 340+ but I dont know where that new list is.

RIght now I think they have 160+ towns. WIth 200 promised by year end. And I think the original 316 have to be online in 2 years from the application (q4 last year was app so Q4 2008 would be deadline ).

i thought verizon got a statewide franchise agreement

DCIFRTHS

05-01-2007, 05:28 AM

... In the meantime the temperature outside is rising and my cable signals are starting to go into the toilet as they do every summer causing TV pixelation and modem snafus (modem: -14 dbMv down, SNR 31, 50 dbMv up power). It's the physics of copper. Fiber optics are immune.

The -14 db down seems like the biggest problem with the 50 db up the next in line. I guess that you have the modem off the first split in to the the house, and you had the cable company run a new line from the pole to your dwelling?

What kind of problems are you seeing? Disconnects? Slow speed?

vman41

05-01-2007, 06:38 AM

In the meantime the temperature outside is rising and my cable signals are starting to go into the toilet as they do every summer causing TV pixelation and modem snafus (modem: -14 dbMv down, SNR 31, 50 dbMv up power). It's the physics of copper. Fiber optics are immune.

I had a case once where warm outside temperatures made the made my cable signal degrade and it wasn't that it was the copper, it was simply a bad amplifier that was sensitive to the heat. A fiber plant will have amplifiers also.

dt_dc

05-01-2007, 10:55 AM

If that is true, then why second market is Denver?As ah30k noted above, Comcast (and the cable industry in general) has a big base of operations in Denver. It's very common for them to lab-trial stuff in Denver. The Comcast Media Center and their HITS system is there. Heck, CableLabs is headquartered there. Alot of their vendors are there ...

That being said, they will often lab-trial something in Denver first and then field / market trial it somewhere else.

suzook

05-01-2007, 01:34 PM

I had a case once where warm outside temperatures made the made my cable signal degrade and it wasn't that it was the copper, it was simply a bad amplifier that was sensitive to the heat. A fiber plant will have amplifiers also.

if the fiber plant is correctly spliced, there will be no amplifiers. if anything they need to use attentuators. the light can be too hot.

morac

05-01-2007, 02:08 PM

What kind of problems are you seeing? Disconnects? Slow speed?
No problems yet other than the occasional pixelation on the TV, but like I mentioned the signals are borderline which means it won't take much to push them over the edge.

I don't know why, but in my area Comcast has to manually tweak the signals when the weather gets warmer. There are temperature sensitive amplifiers near the headend which are supposed to increase the signal strength as the temperature goes up, but they don't work very well. This is why I usually lose service at least twice a year (once in spring and once in fall).

JoBeth66

05-02-2007, 06:48 AM

Yeah I know. :(

What's frustrating is I know they ran the fiber lines on the poles right past my development (hard to miss the new wires on the poles). So I'm within a few hundred yards of FIOS, but it won't get here any time soon.

In the meantime the temperature outside is rising and my cable signals are starting to go into the toilet as they do every summer causing TV pixelation and modem snafus (modem: -14 dbMv down, SNR 31, 50 dbMv up power). It's the physics of copper. Fiber optics are immune.

I'm in the same position. Mt. Holly gets it, because Verizon has to run to the county seat. Eastampton, Lumberton, Hainesport, why? No idea. Burlington? Delran? Edgewater Park? Nope. Oh, we got the lines run, but no idea when they'll implement.

Sigh.

MichaelK

05-02-2007, 09:16 AM

MichaelK

05-02-2007, 09:26 AM

i thought verizon got a statewide franchise agreement

Sorry to wonder off topic but here's the summary of FIOS in NJ so people can have some background.

The statewide rules had minimum build out requirements within (I THINK) 2 years. (towns already served by VZ with certain minimum densities and all the County seats). They also need to "apply" each time for turn on a specific town. ( Basically cable had a 90day waiting period put in the bill to tell cable they are coming.)

THat list posted above is from the first "application" from Q4 last year- it basically covers all the towns required in the first 2 years plus the ones I guess they were sure they will do in the first 2 years. Apparently in the past few months they "applied" for another 30 towns.

NJ has ~560 towns- VZ probably serves around 450-500 of them. I beleive today they have like 160 online. THey say by year end they will have 200+. And the 316 probably have to be done by the end of '08 since they "applied" at the end of '06. Seems they will be at at least 340 by the end of Q1 09 (since they did that second application).

The first waves are all (for obvious reasons) wealthy. (generally in the top fifth or two with occasional adjacent towns)

MichaelK

05-02-2007, 09:32 AM

if the fiber plant is correctly spliced, there will be no amplifiers. if anything they need to use attentuators. the light can be too hot.

I know there's a limit to the distance of fiber before they do an amp or repeater or something. (I've worked on constuction jobs working on national fiber and I remember occasional boxes for those doodads?)

But I forget how far that is- is it not likely that the distance from a CO to a residence wouldn't be that far?

suzook

05-02-2007, 09:49 AM

I know there's a limit to the distance of fiber before they do an amp or repeater or something. (I've worked on constuction jobs working on national fiber and I remember occasional boxes for those doodads?)

But I forget how far that is- is it not likely that the distance from a CO to a residence wouldn't be that far?

i work for vz(splicing fiber), there are no amplifiers anywhere in the metro areas. i guess it is a possibilty in remote locations, but i highly doubt it.

dt_dc

05-02-2007, 11:01 AM

i just saw in another post that Union NJ is a training center or something. So that would explain that oneYes, for various reasons Union NJ is another very popular place for Comcast to do trials. VoIP trials, VOD trials, Union has had its share. Unlike Denver, they do alot of field / market trials in Union. Ie, lab trial in Denver (just friendlies, lab testing, whatever) ... take those lessons and practice the hand-off / upgrade / whatever procedures in Union ... do some field / market trials (some actual customers, in-the-wild, pricing, support, whatever) ... take those lessons and start rolling out to other plants ...

One of the reasons why Union was my guess for an initial Tivo / Comcast market trial (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4986125&&#post4986125). However, you tend to not want to 'overlap' trials unless you have to because they're inter-related so ... if they want to make sure Tivo can handle SDV (it's probably being handled by the underlying TVWorks middleware anyway) and see everything as technically inter-related then Union would still be a good candidate (for a Tivo trial). Then again, if they just want to get a marketing trial to see what people would be willing to pay, what % of takes they may get, support issues, that kindof stuff ... then Union would be a poor guess. We shall see ...

MichaelK

05-04-2007, 09:50 AM

i work for vz(splicing fiber), there are no amplifiers anywhere in the metro areas. i guess it is a possibilty in remote locations, but i highly doubt it.

thanks- i suspect it's a further distance than a normal CO to premises run- 16 miles sticks in my head .

I worked on a few projects running national fiber between like NYC/Jersey City and Philly- DC- every so many miles there's a vault- every other one is just to make pulling easier- but the others have some kind of amp or something. It kind of surprised me - I thought before i worked on the projects that fiber had no "resistance" but i suppose it's not perfectly "clear" so there's some degradation of signal over long distances.