Southern CT OTA ABC Issue

[kduerr]

This was originally buried in a thread about an Atlanta OTA PBS Issue. I apologize if it's improper to start a new thread but I wanted to make sure I got some more opinions and it was a slightly different topic.


Here it is:
Where I am in Connecticut the local ABC affiliate (WTNH in New Haven) is the lone holdout to strike a deal with any of the cable companies for its HD broadcast. So I spent the time and energy to install a good sized Antenna. The signal was great and I had no problems from November through late March. It was showing on 8-1 and the guide data was spot on. All of a sudden in late March the screen went black on 8-1 (even thought the signal still shows high 90's.) I located the broadcast on a new channel 10-3 which I hadn't previously had - but it had no guide info.

I used the TiVo support link for guide issues and received a case number but no further discussion has taken place.

While waiting for them, I also emailed WTNH (no word yet) and deleted/re-scanned my channels. Unfortunately this caused 10-3 to go away completely and no amount of re-scanning or re-doing guided setup will make it come back. I tried guided setup as just cable (since deleting the scanned channels does nothing for me). Then repeated again with cable & antenna. Same result: 8-1 shows black screen with good signal and no 10-3 ever appears.

When I plug the same antenna cable directly in my television (skipping Tivo) the broadcast is flawless and found on 8-1. Certainly seems like a Tivo issue to me.


Anyone else have any tricks? or knowledge of this issue?

[minckster]

Please see http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10405656&&#post10405656

"We have installed new HD equipment and are still in the process of programming the PSIP. We have our HD signal on 8-1. The reception issue on 8-1 should be receivable to those few who now don't receive us within a week. Please keep us informed if you continue to have issues. You will not be able to receive 8-2 over the air because this signal is scrambled. The Doppler radar signal can now be received on air on 59-2 as well as MyNetwork HD on 59-1."

[kduerr]

I knew someone here would know but I didn't know it would be that quick. Thanks!! (I picked the wrong week to stop monitoring that thread over at AVS).

[ad301]

See my update in the other thread here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10463666&&#post10463666) It's not great news.

[kduerr]

Nice of her to call you back but that's very disappointing. Something clearly has changed since it worked fine 2 months ago. And I still get nothing with my TiVo (while the Television alone works fine).

So the question is, how do we get the right people at TiVo and WTNH talking to each other?

[kduerr]

I just read on that same AVS thread that someone had the problem resolved by TiVo with a firmware update. Anyone else have any experience with that?

I guess I'll be contacting TiVo support later.

[Redux]

I just read on that same AVS thread that someone had the problem resolved by TiVo with a firmware update. Anyone else have any experience with that?

I guess I'll be contacting TiVo support later.The person who said that (antennamonkey) seems to be referring to a cable channel being missing, and that was solved with a new Tivo s3 and (he is assuming) different firmware.

That _may_ be related to our WTNH 8.1 OTA problem and similar OTA channels-going-missing-with-good-signal-strength Tivo s3 problems in other parts of the country.

The WTNH OTA 8.1 problem has also occurred sporadically for short period of times with WCTX 59.1, which is owned and operated by the same company.

An interesting symptom is that the missing channel sometimes briefly shows up (but without guide daya) at other locations, e.g. 8.1 has been mapped at times to 10.1 and 10.3, and possibly 12.3; 59.1 has shown up at 39.1 and was mapped at one point (though no actual programming) at 2.1.

[Brian Tierney]

Nice of her to call you back but that's very disappointing. Something clearly has changed since it worked fine 2 months ago. And I still get nothing with my TiVo (while the Television alone works fine).

So the question is, how do we get the right people at TiVo and WTNH talking to each other?

I cannot help but wonder if ABC policy is to disable devices meant to skip commercials.

[Bob Andrews]

I cannot help but wonder if ABC policy is to disable devices meant to skip commercials.

It seems that there is virtually nobody on this forum posting that they can receive WTNH Connecticut OTA on a series 3. Yet, many have reported that when hooked directly to their TV the TV tunes the channel 8.1 just fine.

Here is my question. Does anyone know of a HD capable DVR that can tune 8.1 WTNH with an over the air antenna?

[kduerr]

The really really frustrating part is that this worked no problem when I first got the Series 3. It only stopped working near the end of March. Why would it stop working when it was fine?

[Redux]

The really really frustrating part is that this worked no problem when I first got the Series 3. It only stopped working near the end of March. Why would it stop working when it was fine?WTNH (which also runs WCTX) installed some new digital equipment at that time. There was much temporary disruption of the digital channels (8.x, 59.x) that affected all digital viewers, but it quickly settled down except for 8.1 on Tivo series 3's, on Windows Media Center, and on another type of receiver I can't remember.

The switchover to the new equipment works for everybody else. The difficulty with the specific combination of equipment that remains involves only a very few viewers and is apparantly not much of a priority for either WTNH or Tivo.

[gastrof]

I wonder how they'd respond to the FCC being notified that they're broadcasting a signal that's selectively incompatible with certain TV receivers.

I'm sure this must be violating some regulation.

[tase2]

I guess I am lucky I decided to go with Comcast's HD tier. Channel 8 was the only channel I used to be able to get OTA.

That really stinks that you guys are having all this trouble. :( :mad:

[Bob Andrews]

I wonder how they'd respond to the FCC being notified that they're broadcasting a signal that's selectively incompatible with certain TV receivers.

I'm sure this must be violating some regulation.

As the switch to digital happens by February 2009 and all analog stations go black on that day, it seems to be that WTNH will have to address the issue, if in fact it is a WTNH problem.

If the S3 had component video inputs and an infrared channel changer, then the tuner from the TV could be used to record WTNH. Come on Tivo, give us component inputs to solve problems like this.

[Redux]

I have tremendous progress to report on this problem.

I called Tivo to follow up on my case number from late March/early April 2007. Got bumped up from "level two technical support".

This is no longer a "weak signal problem." Forget all the previous instructions, including buying a "booster." It is now a known problem and the engineers at Tivo are working on it. I will hear from Tivo "soon" about it.

No, I cannot speak to an engineer about it. Nor can tech support; they communicate (customer service to the engineers) only via email.

Regrettably, the Tivo is now beyond the 30 day return period so I cannot return the unit. I wouldn't have anyway, I was just asking this so I could pass the info on to others who bought Tivos more recently on my say-so.

If the problem bothers me I can simply unplug the unit until they get the problem fixed.

It does get harder and harder to be a Tivo advocate. Currently I tell those wanting to bail out of Tivo to "wait and see." It's tougher with the issue of advising potential new Tivo customers. Tivo is very pricey, the value is getting borderline at best, and the world is moving on to new alternatives. Mostly I just do a "here's the facts" rundown. Problem is, when I do this in contexts where there are people who know my strong-Tivo-advocacy past, they comment on the fact that I'm backing off. Which I can't really deny.

[kduerr]

Redux, did you ever hear anything back? Or have you given up completely on this issue like I soon will?

[Redux]

Redux, did you ever hear anything back? Or have you given up completely on this issue like I soon will?I've pretty much given up. I bought the new TivoHD (because I got a great price I couldn't pass up) but haven't even gotten around to hooking it up to see if it solves the problem.

Tivo Technical "Support" said I should hook it up and see, they had no clue nor any real interest.

My Tivo enthusiasm is just about gone. Netflix, various on-line sources, OTA HiDef, basic Cable which I get for free with my cable modem internet service, Tivo is hardly an essential element of my entertainment mix and it's just dying away as anything important to me.

Since Tivo is like an old former friend, I'll look at the sickbed now and then to see if there are any signs of life, but I'm not hopeful.

[kduerr]

9.1 Software fixes this issue for me.

It's still extremely frustrating because the problem was never acknowledged and I would never have known this software update fixed it - if I hadn't taken the leap of faith in installing it last night.

Anyway, I have my antenna HD channel back. So that's nice. I just wished it had worked for the last 7 months like it did for the first 4.

[George Webster]

9.1 Software fixes this issue for me.

It's still extremely frustrating because the problem was never acknowledged and I would never have known this software update fixed it - if I hadn't taken the leap of faith in installing it last night.

Anyway, I have my antenna HD channel back. So that's nice. I just wished it had worked for the last 7 months like it did for the first 4.

WTNH ABC channel 8.1 has not worked for ever since I bought my series 3.

About 2 weeks ago the 9.1 update suddenly made it so that it now works. I do not know why but it works. I am now a happy series 3 owner.

Time to add more hard drive space and then I will be in heaven.

[TiVoJerry]

The reason this wasn't "acknowledged" was because the station has been broadcasting an invalid ATSC stream and our software didn't like it. The problem is not with our software. There are specifications laid out that we follow but many providers aren't following them properly for select stations. They may not even know they're not complying. We try to avoid fingerpointing when we can.

For WTNH, we informed the station of the problem, even offering to lend them a Series3 box to test with, but never got anywhere in getting them to resolve it from their side (which, obviously, they could have done months ago). Instead of battling with every station out there that doesn't confirm to the specs, we modified our software to ignore the error instead of not showing the channel.

Hope this helps clear things up a bit.

[George Webster]

Instead of battling with every station out there that doesn't confirm to the specs, we modified our software to ignore the error instead of not showing the channel.
TivoJerry,

Thank you for that post. The WTNH issue meant that in February of 2009 I would have to subscribe to basic cable just to get WTNH. Right now I am so happy to have canceled DirecTV and getting ABC, CBS, FOX and NBC in uncompressed over the air HD glory. The picture is fantastic and now all is well. I truly hope that Tivo thrives as it makes more happy customers. I for one will be singing the praises of Tivo to my friends. Thanks again.

[Lake Guy]

Same problem here in VA with ABC station in Lynchburg-- when I got the Series 3, the OTA HD reception from that station was perfect. After the first TiVo update, I lost that digital broadcast. Every other OTA digital station remained. Signal for the ABC digital broadcast was 95+, but no picture-- just a gray screen. I could get the ABC digital broadcast on my other HD ATSC tuners, but not with the TiVo Series 3. I got the latest TiVo update (9.1) last week and the ABC digital broadcast has suddenly returned on my Series 3.

If this was a station problem due to broadcasting an invalid ATSC stream, one would expect that the ATSC tuners in my TV and in my HD satellite box would also not be able to pick up the bad OTA signal like the TiVo Series 3 tuner. Looks like TiVo tweaked its software without admitting there was ever a problem on its end, and now "all is right with the world"!

[kduerr]

TivoJerry,

Thanks for the response. I certainly appreciate the time and input you provide around here.

You just "acknowledged" (and explained) the issue. That's all some of us have been looking for all along. From our perspective all we knew was this: Plug the antenna into a TV and the channel is there - Plug it into a TiVo and there's no channel. (Doesn't really matter at that point who's technical "fault" it is).

Further and more maddening was that it worked for the first few months I had the Series3 and then starting in March it didn't. It took from March until now to be rectified and this is the first time I heard any explanation. Even though many were sought after.

It's great that it is fixed. But it's too bad it took so long and we lost folks like Redux along the way.

[Roderigo]

If this was a station problem due to broadcasting an invalid ATSC stream, one would expect that the ATSC tuners in my TV and in my HD satellite box would also not be able to pick up the bad OTA signal like the TiVo Series 3 tuner. Looks like TiVo tweaked its software without admitting there was ever a problem on its end, and now "all is right with the world"!
Unfortunately, this is the logic that Broadcast stations and Cable Companies use to not fix problems they could fix instantaneously.

Just because your TV and Satellite box work on this channel doesn't mean it's a valid signal. It just means that those boxes either aren't following the spec themselves, or already have the software in place to "ignore the error instead of not showing the channel." Also, as was reported on the AVS Forum thread (see the second post in this thread), it wasn't just tivo that had this problem, so at least two companies implementing to the spec think something's amok.

The unfortunate thing is that tivo has to learn through trial and error what kind of mistakes are being made out there, and then decide if it's worth getting the mistakes fixed at the source, or adding bandages to their software to fix problems that aren't technically theirs in the first place.

Ultimately, it looks like tivo put the software in place to work around this issue (albeit not quickly enough for the liking of some here)... But, that's still more responsive than WTNH, which could have fixed this problem back in April, but chose not to do so.

[ad301]

Hope this helps clear things up a bit.

As one who had been affected by this, I'd like to say "Thanks". Both to TiVo for dealing with the issue, and to you, for the explanation.