Heroes "0.07%" 4/23/07 *Spoilers Inside* [Text View]

LoadStar

04-23-2007, 10:30 PM

Hey! Isn't something bad supposed to happen if you meet yourself while time-travelling?
:p
Yeah... it could result in a paradox that will unravel the fabric of space/time as we know it. or it could just make you pass out

Ok, if their goal is to make me completely confused as to who is good and who is bad, they've won, they did it. By the end of this episode, I was like "screw it, someone's going to win, I'll just hold on tight and enjoy the ride." At this point, everything and everyone can get traced back to Linderman, even Sylar. So who is fighting who and why? It's like a lot of wasted effort... "so, wait, you work for Linderman too? Get out! Me too!"

sushikitten

04-23-2007, 10:30 PM

Gregor

04-23-2007, 10:31 PM

Anyone think the soul patch guy might be the courier from earlier in the show?

"Hold onto that. It might be worth somethiing someday".

Maybe Hiro is just delivering the sword?

jsmeeker

04-23-2007, 10:31 PM

wonder what power Peter and Nathan's mom will have?

Mine cut out right at "To be Continued..". It was an hour and one minute long, and actually started a few seconds into the recap..

LoadStar

04-23-2007, 10:33 PM

Didn't Mohindar know about Peter's regenerative powers? I would have thought he'd search for a piece of glass.... Or maybe I wasn't screaming loud enough at the TV. :)

And when are we going to get to see grandma's power? I swear she was going to reanimate Peter - or call Lindeman to do it.
I'm not sure that Mohindar knew about any of Peter's powers, period. The last time Mohindar and Peter crossed paths, as best as I recall, Peter had yet to inherit Claire's regenerative power, and he had yet to learn to control the powers.

sushikitten

04-23-2007, 10:37 PM

I'm not sure that Mohindar knew about any of Peter's powers, period. The last time Mohindar and Peter crossed paths, as best as I recall, Peter had yet to inherit Claire's regenerative power, and he had yet to learn to control the powers.

Okay, that makes sense. I can't remember all the details - which is sad, considering I just watched all previous episodes about a month ago. :o

bonscott87

04-23-2007, 10:50 PM

Mine cut out right at "To be Continued..". It was an hour and one minute long, and actually started a few seconds into the recap..

I learned this lesson earlier this season. Heroes starts 1 minute early and ends 5 minutes late. That always gets it. :)

Awesome episodes. Best show on tv. Period.

Gregor

04-23-2007, 10:50 PM

Didn't Mohindar know about Peter's regenerative powers? I would have thought he'd search for a piece of glass.... Or maybe I wasn't screaming loud enough at the TV. :)

And when are we going to get to see grandma's power? I swear she was going to reanimate Peter - or call Lindeman to do it.

I'm not sure that Mohindar knew that Claire had been restarted by removing the stick from her brain, so I wasn't surprised she knew to look for something like that.

I had completely forgotten though, and it was a great surprise!

jsmeeker

04-23-2007, 10:51 PM

I learned this lesson earlier this season. Heroes starts 1 minute early and ends 5 minutes late. That always gets it. :)

back when Studio 60 was on, I didn't have to worry about this.

It's not a huge deal.. By that time, the show is over. The only thing I miss is previews for the next show. And I'll probably get a commercial for it during The Office.

unicorngoddess

04-23-2007, 10:57 PM

Hey! Isn't something bad supposed to happen if you meet yourself while time-travelling?
:p

I screamed out, "Don't touch each other"
(Same matter can't occupy same space at the same time. - Timecop Rule) :)

Yes, I think that was suppose to be Sylar in the oval office. I'm guessing Isaac's messages weren't delivered.

Rob Helmerichs

04-23-2007, 11:03 PM

Anyone think the soul patch guy might be the courier from earlier in the show?

"Hold onto that. It might be worth somethiing someday".

Maybe Hiro is just delivering the sword?
Are you serious?

Or did you not know that soul-patch guy is future Hiro?

Especially after a couple of people in the thread before you mentioned it?

Gregor

04-23-2007, 11:08 PM

Are you serious?

Or did you not know that soul-patch guy is future Hiro?

Especially after a couple of people in the thread before you mentioned it?

Yes, I've seen the future Hiro on other shows.

This wrinkle just occurred to me after the show.

Otherwise, what was the purpose of the courier scene? Maybe there's more than one warrior? It kinda solves the future paradox problem...

Shaunnick

04-23-2007, 11:08 PM

The 9th Wonders comic may be the key, or the book that Isaac gave to the courier.

Rob Helmerichs

04-23-2007, 11:16 PM

The 9th Wonders comic may be the key, or the book that Isaac gave to the courier.
Or just to set up Isaac's frame of mind in advance of Sylar's arrival, that he has accepted his fate.

cwoody222

04-23-2007, 11:26 PM

Anyone think the soul patch guy might be the courier from earlier in the show?

"Hold onto that. It might be worth somethiing someday".

Maybe Hiro is just delivering the sword?

I actually thought that too... but then I re-watched it... Courier Guy is definately NOT from the end of the show... that's Future Hiro.

But Courier Guy seems WAY too interested in what happens to Comic Book Hiro to just be a plot device to get Isaac to understand his fate or whatever... he's got to be more important, somehow.

TAsunder

04-23-2007, 11:29 PM

Isaac's comic to the courier was intended to alter the future somehow, IMO.

So mommy petrelli's power is what? Something involving paris, I guess.

Doctor invisible, linderman, mommy petrelli all apparently worked together at some point, eh? Who else is old on this show? Maybe mohinder's dad was in on it.

Great episode.

Advice for those in the same predicament... if you have a dual tuner, don't watch heroes and THEN 24... boy, that was dumb.

Shaunnick

04-23-2007, 11:38 PM

Aniketos

04-23-2007, 11:45 PM

Advice for those in the same predicament... if you have a dual tuner, don't watch heroes and THEN 24... boy, that was dumb.

Yeah, I was over at my friend's house tonight and we watched Heroes live, then 24. Throughout the episode of 24 I just didn't care, all I could think about was Heroes. But back to the actual show discussion.

WOW. As painful as it was to wait, the show throughly delivered in spades.

I saw Claire knowing to pull out the glass before it happened, but thats the great part about the show, things actually fit together and there's logical progression.

I loved how they did the escape of HRG and Parkman. Very clever.

I even didn't mind Niki/Jessica in this episode. I thoroughly enjoyed every scene.

Next week's episode looks fantastic. This show is simply amazing.

BlueDuke

04-24-2007, 12:07 AM

cyke93

04-24-2007, 12:52 AM

omg .. awsome episode !!!!!!!!

jpwoof

04-24-2007, 01:04 AM

don't you guys think Peter is too overpowered?

p.s. - why didnt Mohinder kill Sylar while he's knocked out.

jpwoof

04-24-2007, 01:12 AM

a couple of questions... did linderman arrange Candace to get micah? and why does he want nathan to win the election?

i'm starting to hate this candace character, now I'm constantly thinking everyone in the show is her. they should take her off the show.

Sadara

04-24-2007, 01:14 AM

My guess is that Isaac's sketchbook contains his drawings of how to stop Sylar.

As for Sylar's painting, I think it's still supposed to be Nathan. Sylar just has a different painting style than Isaac.

That's what I was thinking. The scene looks the same as the "pretty" version of it, Sylar's is all Psycho, kinda like his personality.

I have to say, this episode was totally awesome!!!!!

speculating here.... spoilering, just in case!

I wonder if Linderman is using Micah to transfer or safeguard the tracking system, since Micah's ability has to do with mind control over technology.

jpwoof

04-24-2007, 01:21 AM

linderman probably wants micah because

he wants micah to rig the poll votes so nathan can win the election

Sadara

04-24-2007, 01:23 AM

linderman probably wants micah because

he wants micah to rig the poll votes so nathan can win the election

duh! That was so obvious, I didn't think of it! :)

MickeS

04-24-2007, 01:25 AM

Who would have guessed Linderman?
If you meant that he's got powers... anyone who read the comics knew. :)

If you haven't, there's a great backstory with him there.

jwjody

04-24-2007, 01:30 AM

alpacaboy

04-24-2007, 01:31 AM

Something weird about seeing the star of "Bring It On 3" morph into the star of "Stick It."

Just starting to watch the episode now...

spikedavis

04-24-2007, 02:02 AM

I didn't take the bizzaro painting to be Sylar but I thought it could have been a more truthful depiction that what Isaac painted. Maybe Nathan isn't an honorable leader. He did send Claire away even after Peter pointed out to him that maybe her staying could save NYC. So Nathan is choosing the Presidency over all those lives.

J

Thinking the same thing. They've always hinted that Nathan is somewhat sinister-remember the look on his face in Peter's "bomb" dream when he comes out to meet Peter? He looks really evil...

dagojr

04-24-2007, 02:02 AM

mine cut out. please recap the last few minutes.

thanks.

spikedavis

04-24-2007, 02:10 AM

mine cut out. please recap the last few minutes.

thanks.

Hiro and Ando surmise the desolate future. Hiro determines that before they return to the present, they must learn what mistakes were made to lead to this, so that they can change it. Hiro charges into Isaac's loft, assured that Isaac will give them the info they need. When they enter, the entire loft looks different. Lots of strings are tied together with pictures and news clippings attached. It's a timeline(s) detailing the past. There's articles about the devestation of NY and Nathan's leadership. Hiro hears a noise and draws his sword...and comes face to face with Future Hiro.

Future Hiro: "...you."

Hiro: "...me??"

dagojr

04-24-2007, 02:18 AM

Hiro and Ando surmise the desolate future. Hiro determines that before they return to the present, they must learn what mistakes were made to lead to this, so that they can change it. Hiro charges into Isaac's loft, assured that Isaac will give them the info they need. When they enter, the entire loft looks different. Lots of strings are tied together with pictures and news clippings attached. It's a timeline(s) detailing the past. There's articles about the devestation of NY and Nathan's leadership. Hiro hears a noise and draws his sword...and comes face to face with Future Hiro.

Future Hiro: "...you."

Hiro: "...me??"

thank you.

pjenkins

04-24-2007, 02:43 AM

this show rocks :)

JYoung

04-24-2007, 02:55 AM

So next week,

which one of the Petrelli brothers will be wearing the beard?

MickeS

04-24-2007, 03:03 AM

Future Hiro: "...you."

Hiro: "...me??"

Future Hiro had a much darker voice than Present Hiro. I guess it goes with looking much more like a badass. :)

JETarpon

04-24-2007, 03:41 AM

Doctor invisible, linderman, mommy petrelli all apparently worked together at some point, eh? Who else is old on this show? Maybe mohinder's dad was in on it.

Sulu, obviously. Wasn't he there when baby Claire was given to HRG?

smak

04-24-2007, 03:43 AM

linderman probably wants micah because

he wants micah to rig the poll votes so nathan can win the election

Bingo, nice deducting there, that's gotta be it.

My thoughts on Nathan is in the timeline where the bomb goes off, he uses his knowledge of what's about to happen to somehow make himself a hero, thus giving him a platform to run for President...

As for Isaac, i'm pretty sure the 9th Wonder pages he gives to the courier, are the key to stopping Sylar, and it probably will get published so it's easy to find.

And like Jpwoof said, i'm not really a big fan of the changeling character, it just gives the show too easy an out when they need to move a plot point forward.

You make a hard situation, ie Linderman trying to get Micah from a killing machine like Jessica/Niki and make it too easy.

Anyway, not that big a deal. Next week looks awesome. They have some pretty big confidnce that with 3 or 4 episodes left, they can detour from the main story that much, even though I'm sure we'll learn a ton of stuff.

-smak-

logic88

04-24-2007, 04:26 AM

Good episode but when Linderman outlined his plan for bringing "a brighter future" to humanity, the scheme just seemed a bit too Watchmen-ish.

smak

04-24-2007, 04:30 AM

And a little Ras Al Goul ish...

-smak-

Bulldog7

04-24-2007, 04:38 AM

My guess is that Isaac's sketchbook contains his drawings of how to stop Sylar.

As for Sylar's painting, I think it's still supposed to be Nathan. Sylar just has a different painting style than Isaac.

That is how is seemed to me..he was using the powers that he gained from Isaac, which is the power to paint the future, but he does not have the artistic talent that Isaac has, and as such, the result is the same subject, but not the same style of painting. Or I could be wrong!

Rob Helmerichs

04-24-2007, 07:09 AM

That is how is seemed to me..he was using the powers that he gained from Isaac, which is the power to paint the future, but he does not have the artistic talent that Isaac has, and as such, the result is the same subject, but not the same style of painting. Or I could be wrong!
Well, remember when Peter used Isaac's power. His drawings weren't quite as polished either... :D

Fool Me Twice

04-24-2007, 07:18 AM

p.s. - why didnt Mohinder kill Sylar while he's knocked out.+1

Mr. Soze

04-24-2007, 07:29 AM

The Sylar/Isaac scene was maybe the best scene yet. Isaac completely comfortable with his fate, and even in the face of what will be a gruesome death, calm in his contempt for Sylar. Sylar cocky and matter-of-fact in his murdering technique. Superbly written, acted, and effects.

And Future Hiro. Very cool.

danplaysbass

04-24-2007, 07:48 AM

And like Jpwoof said, i'm not really a big fan of the changeling character, it just gives the show too easy an out when they need to move a plot point forward.

You make a hard situation, ie Linderman trying to get Micah from a killing machine like Jessica/Niki and make it too easy.

-smak-

You're forgetting that Jessica saw the changeling in her "standard" form. She'll figure it out and then go hunting. It could be really exciting!!

What ever happened to the Wireless girl that was with Parkman and Bomb guy. Speaking of bomb guy, that EMP was awesome!! That whole scene with HRG giving instructions was great!!

Big_Daddy

04-24-2007, 07:49 AM

Isaac's comic to the courier was intended to alter the future somehow, IMO.

My thought is that it's not the sketchbook, but the comic. He referred to the comic as the end of the series. Thus I'm guessing it shows how they stop the bomb and stop Sylar.

A sketchbook is one item that can be lost. And really was only sentimental. A comic however will be published in apparently vast quantities.

Nice episode to return to. Really looking forward to next week's.

lachacg

04-24-2007, 07:56 AM

Online graphic novel is updated already. It fills in some blanks.

Rob Helmerichs

04-24-2007, 08:10 AM

My thought is that it's not the sketchbook, but the comic. He referred to the comic as the end of the series. Thus I'm guessing it shows how they stop the bomb and stop Sylar.
Right, that's what Hiro and Ando find in the future.

Sometimes, a courier is just a courier! :D

cheesesteak

04-24-2007, 08:13 AM

Mohinder put a dead body in a cab? Was that his cab or did he hail one?

Who dressed Mohinder this episode?

danplaysbass

04-24-2007, 08:20 AM

Who dressed Mohinder this episode?

I'd guess it was the same person who dressed him for the last episode. He was wearing the same clothes. Hope this helps!!

eddyj

04-24-2007, 08:20 AM

Online graphic novel is updated already. It fills in some blanks.
Is anyone else unhappy that there is information in the graphic novel that is not on the show? I don't want to read it, I want to see what is going on during the show. I resent that they want to force me to go read the novel to get the full story.

tivogurl

04-24-2007, 08:26 AM

I'm not sure that Mohindar knew that Claire had been restarted by removing the stick from her brain, so I wasn't surprised she knew to look for something like that.
I'm not sure she knows how she revived. I don't recall her having a conversation with the ME who removed the stick in her head. I think her removing the glass shard was a Wild Ass Guess.

sushikitten

04-24-2007, 08:42 AM

I'm not sure she knows how she revived. I don't recall her having a conversation with the ME who removed the stick in her head. I think her removing the glass shard was a Wild Ass Guess.

I don't think it was a WAG. She has pulled stuff out of her before, and pushed ribs back in, etc.

eddyj

04-24-2007, 08:55 AM

Yeah, it is well established that when there is stuff stuck somewhere, that inhibits the regeneration in that part.

Rob Helmerichs

04-24-2007, 08:59 AM

Is anyone else unhappy that there is information in the graphic novel that is not on the show? I don't want to read it, I want to see what is going on during the show. I resent that they want to force me to go read the novel to get the full story.
Judging from the fact that I've never read the online GN and don't feel like I've missed anything, I'd say it's not part of the "full story" but rather supplemental material, like DVD extras.

JDHutt25

04-24-2007, 09:16 AM

Mohinder put a dead body in a cab? Was that his cab or did he hail one?

Who dressed Mohinder this episode?

Wasn't Mohinder a cabbie? I figured it was his cab.

sean67854

04-24-2007, 09:21 AM

Several things I liked about this episode, along with some observations:

I really dug the camera style during the Parkman/HRG scenes in the beginning. The blurring and the jerking made me think of a Tool music video.

Does the changeling actually change? Or does she project into the minds of those present? Couldn't Parkmans presence change her effectiveness?

The picture Sylar painted made me think of Bizarro.

TAsunder

04-24-2007, 09:29 AM

Changeling seems to actually change, if we are to take the bright light during her change as any indication.

7thton

04-24-2007, 09:29 AM

Why was Sylar's hand bleeding while he was painting the bizarro painting?

Legion

04-24-2007, 09:30 AM

I am more interested in this group Linderman was part of way back when. I am sure it was him, mommy Petrelli, and probably daddy Petrelli, and daddy Hiro.

That leaves more characters to develop in the new Season 2 story lines.

tivogurl

04-24-2007, 09:44 AM

Why was Sylar's hand bleeding while he was painting the bizarro painting?
I presume that wasn't his blood.

7thton

04-24-2007, 09:45 AM

I presume that wasn't his blood.

Why? He killed Issac by launching paint brushes into him, right?

TAsunder

04-24-2007, 09:46 AM

Why? He killed Issac by launching paint brushes into him, right?

No... he pinned him to the floor that way to make him feel especially jesus like, then he sliced open his brain and ate it.

sean67854

04-24-2007, 09:47 AM

Changeling seems to actually change, if we are to take the bright light during her change as any indication.

I'll have to go back and look, but I thought that when she changed the background behind her wavered, like looking through water.

NoThru22

04-24-2007, 09:47 AM

The special effect for Candice's change is different in this episode. Even in the flash back, they changed it to this new style. There's more of a clear morph and less blurring. I don't like it. Before, it was unique. Now she's just like another Mystique.

The background blur is now a lot different too.

7thton

04-24-2007, 09:52 AM

No... he pinned him to the floor that way to make him feel especially jesus like, then he sliced open his brain and ate it.

Did they show that?

drevnock

04-24-2007, 09:53 AM

Speculation :
Linderman is Father Petrelli?
I think mom knows way to much.

zordude

04-24-2007, 09:53 AM

Why was Sylar's hand bleeding while he was painting the bizarro painting?

Are you sure his hand was bleeding? I don't remember it in great detail, but I assumed that he had pulled one of the brushes out of Isaac's body and used it to paint with.

Z

sean67854

04-24-2007, 09:54 AM

Speculation :
Linderman is Father Petrelli?
I think mom knows way to much.

Nope, graphic novels online show this is not true.

ClutchBrake

04-24-2007, 10:01 AM

p.s. - why didnt Mohinder kill Sylar while he's knocked out.

Lame lame lame lame lame lame lame.

Two minutes before he pulls the trigger to kill Sylar. It doesn't work and Sylar goes to kill him. Peter comes in and Mohinder watches as Sylar attempts to dissect him alive. The next minute Sylar is down, unconscious, and completely helpless. So here you have the man you just tried to kill, who has just tried to kill you, has killed your friend and murdered your father. What do you do? Cut his throat? Pick up the gun and put a bullet in his head? Nope. You just leave him be.

LAME.

ClutchBrake

04-24-2007, 10:03 AM

What ever happened to the Wireless girl that was with Parkman and Bomb guy. Speaking of bomb guy, that EMP was awesome!! That whole scene with HRG giving instructions was great!!

Up and vanished like a fart in the wind.

eddyj

04-24-2007, 10:32 AM

Sirius Black

04-24-2007, 10:38 AM

What "wireless girl" are you talking about?

This was a great episode. This is a great show. The only thing on TV worth watching every week with commercials.

Sylar is much too powerful to be bested while unconscious. No, the only thing someone like Mohindar could do was get out of there with Peter's body. He certainly couldn't leave Peter there was Sylar would just wake up, pop open his brain, and start his tinkering. Do we really want Mohindar to be a murderer anyway?

unicorngoddess

04-24-2007, 10:41 AM

Lame lame lame lame lame lame lame.

Two minutes before he pulls the trigger to kill Sylar. It doesn't work and Sylar goes to kill him. Peter comes in and Mohinder watches as Sylar attempts to dissect him alive. The next minute Sylar is down, unconscious, and completely helpless. So here you have the man you just tried to kill, who has just tried to kill you, has killed your friend and murdered your father. What do you do? Cut his throat? Pick up the gun and put a bullet in his head? Nope. You just leave him be.

LAME.

+1 on this. But we have to assume it's all because the story still needs Sylar. It has nothing to do with logical reasoning.

Wireless girl is still around if you're playing along with the Heroes 360 experience thing.

Also, for those not reading the comics because you don't want to be spoiled or something, the comics are tied in with the story not just side stories. I don't know if you would consider them spoilers though since we don't know if there's any intention of them ever showing them on the show. They do discuss certain Heroes backstories and who is connected with who and how. So if you've been on the fence about whether you should read them, that's a little bit of what to expect from them without saying anything specific about them.

GDG76

04-24-2007, 10:44 AM

Do we really want Mohindar to be a murderer anyway?

He already tried to shoot him in the head so I don't see how he isn't one in anyone's eyes.

I agree that he was trying to get Peter out of there so Sylar wouldn't take his powers. If he tried to kill Sylar and fail, it would have been much worse.

Mars Rocket

04-24-2007, 10:52 AM

I thought somebody explained earlier in the show that Candace (the shapeshifter - is that her name?) just makes people see things differently, i.e. she's not actually changing shape or form.

Also, what happens if you decapitate Sylar?

Big_Daddy

04-24-2007, 10:57 AM

Also, what happens if you decapitate Sylar?

You win the game.

There can be only one.

Vendikarr

04-24-2007, 11:00 AM

What ever happened to the Wireless girl that was with Parkman and Bomb guy. Speaking of bomb guy, that EMP was awesome!! That whole scene with HRG giving instructions was great!!

Her story has been continuing in the graphic novels on NBC's site.

prometheus67

04-24-2007, 11:00 AM

prometheus67

04-24-2007, 11:01 AM

A broader question about the heroes and their place in society: What happens when the general population learns about them? Can they be held by the same laws that govern the rest of us? Who would want to go through trying to convict Sylar of murder? If he were incapacitated somehow (like HRG did) then would it be a fair trial?

Will the general population look to kill the heroes in season 2? What will they do if/when they find out their new president is one, also?

Kory...

Graymalkin

04-24-2007, 11:03 AM

You win the game.

There can be only one.

Yeah. A Highlander-Heroes crossover would be verrrrrrrry interesting. But stupid.

Who's old enough to get that reference? :D

prometheus67

04-24-2007, 11:04 AM

Mohinder put a dead body in a cab? Was that his cab or did he hail one?

Didn't we learn before that his dad was driving a cab? That's where his body was found, IIRC. I think Moninder was offered a job, too, but it was never noted whether or not he took it.

Kory...

prometheus67

04-24-2007, 11:09 AM

My thoughts on Nathan is in the timeline where the bomb goes off, he uses his knowledge of what's about to happen to somehow make himself a hero, thus giving him a platform to run for President...
-smak-

I thought we were told somewhere (from Linderman?) that Nathan would win his election, the V.P. would die, and he would be chosen as the successor, then the President would die, and he would then become the President.

Does anyone else remember that? Or did I just make all that up?

Kory...

astrohip

04-24-2007, 11:10 AM

I am more interested in this group Linderman was part of way back when. I am sure it was him, mommy Petrelli, and probably daddy Petrelli, and daddy Hiro.
By the time I watched this, it was 2 in the morning. One of the few shows I won't wait to watch at a "normal" time. But maybe the 2AM viewing left me dazed. Was there a scene that tied together Linderman w/Momma P? :confused:

PJO1966

04-24-2007, 11:14 AM

I didn't take the bizzaro painting to be Sylar but I thought it could have been a more truthful depiction that what Isaac painted. Maybe Nathan isn't an honorable leader. He did send Claire away even after Peter pointed out to him that maybe her staying could save NYC. So Nathan is choosing the Presidency over all those lives.

J

He could also be sending Claire to Paris to keep her safe from the blast. I doubt she can regenerate if she's a pile of ashes.

unicorngoddess

04-24-2007, 11:19 AM

Didn't we learn before that his dad was driving a cab? That's where his body was found, IIRC. I think Moninder was offered a job, too, but it was never noted whether or not he took it.

Kory...

I think it was the very first episode when HRG first meet Mohinder, Mohinder is driving him to the airport in his cab. Then there was another scene whwere Mohinder picked up Peter in the cab as well and they had the discussion about being special. So we can assume that Mohinder took the job as a cabbie.

A broader question about the heroes and their place in society: What happens when the general population learns about them? Can they be held by the same laws that govern the rest of us? Who would want to go through trying to convict Sylar of murder? If he were incapacitated somehow (like HRG did) then would it be a fair trial?

Will the general population look to kill the heroes in season 2? What will they do if/when they find out their new president is one, also?

I think this is too X-Menish to actually happen on Heroes. They would almost exactly be stealing the storyline from that movie.

glumlord

04-24-2007, 11:46 AM

linderman probably wants micah because

he wants micah to rig the poll votes so nathan can win the election

The cool part is that this ties into the e-mails we have been getting for the site at www.samantha48616e61.com which are from supposed to be Hana Guetmann(sp?) aka wireless chick.

Apparently behind the scenes they have been trying to reverse lindermans work to rig the polls and succeeded.

That was a few days ago in the e-mails. Now we have linderman saying on screen that he has had some complications and needs Micah to fix them.

MickeS

04-24-2007, 12:03 PM

Yeah, the online comics are really interesting if you're interested in fiding out some "behind the scenes" type stuff about the fictional characters. The backstories on Linderman and Hana Gitelman ("wireless") are really cool.

Mars Rocket

04-24-2007, 12:11 PM

I think this is too X-Menish to actually happen on Heroes. They would almost exactly be stealing the storyline from that movie.

And the X-Men movie stole the idea (if such an obvious plot can be stolen) from some Sci-Fi stories written many years ago, for example "Beggars in Spain", a short story/novel (it was released both ways) about genetically engineered people who don't need sleep, and the eventual social and legal backlash against them. I think it was originally published in the early '90s.

glumlord

04-24-2007, 12:12 PM

Changeling seems to actually change, if we are to take the bright light during her change as any indication.

Think of her more of projecting an illusion into the minds of others.

She doesn't actually change.

glumlord

04-24-2007, 12:14 PM

Speculation :
Linderman is Father Petrelli?
I think mom knows way to much.

In the webcomics they paint the background between Petrelli and Lindermann. They both served in vietnam war together and Lindermann healed Petrelli.

There whole squad got wiped out but those two survived.

Afterwards they went to work together, I assume forming the company.

TAsunder

04-24-2007, 12:24 PM

Think of her more of projecting an illusion into the minds of others.

She doesn't actually change.

And your evidence is what?

unicorngoddess

04-24-2007, 12:29 PM

In the webcomics they paint the background between Petrelli and Lindermann. They both served in vietnam war together and Lindermann healed Petrelli.

There whole squad got wiped out but those two survived.

Afterwards they went to work together, I assume forming the company.

You might want to spoilerize your post since a lot of people are avoiding the comics.

MickeS

04-24-2007, 12:30 PM

And your evidence is what?
Didn't HRG explain that? Pretty sure he did.

Rob Helmerichs

04-24-2007, 12:31 PM

And the X-Men movie stole the idea (if such an obvious plot can be stolen) from some Sci-Fi stories written many years ago, for example "Beggars in Spain", a short story/novel (it was released both ways) about genetically engineered people who don't need sleep, and the eventual social and legal backlash against them. I think it was originally published in the early '90s.
It's been a mainstay in comics (especially X-Men, but Watchmen is where it's most often been lifted from) since the 80s, and common since the 60s.

Mars Rocket

04-24-2007, 12:39 PM

Didn't HRG explain that? Pretty sure he did.

Yeah, that's what I was saying earlier - in a previous episode somebody said she just makes people believe they're seeing different things; she's not actually changing anything. Which would mean the "effect" wouldn't show up on a video recording I suppose.

DevdogAZ

04-24-2007, 12:49 PM

Yah. This is the biggest problem I have with the show. There have been other opportunities to kill Sylar and it's never been taken. All these people who know how dangerous he is and just let him continue.

Kory...

A broader question about the heroes and their place in society: What happens when the general population learns about them? Can they be held by the same laws that govern the rest of us? Who would want to go through trying to convict Sylar of murder? If he were incapacitated somehow (like HRG did) then would it be a fair trial?

Will the general population look to kill the heroes in season 2? What will they do if/when they find out their new president is one, also?

Kory...

Didn't we learn before that his dad was driving a cab? That's where his body was found, IIRC. I think Moninder was offered a job, too, but it was never noted whether or not he took it.

Kory...

I thought we were told somewhere (from Linderman?) that Nathan would win his election, the V.P. would die, and he would be chosen as the successor, then the President would die, and he would then become the President.

Does anyone else remember that? Or did I just make all that up?

Kory...
6 posts in nearly 5 years, and then 4 posts within minutes of each other? Were you frozen in carbonite until very recently?

glumlord

04-24-2007, 12:51 PM

By the time I watched this, it was 2 in the morning. One of the few shows I won't wait to watch at a "normal" time. But maybe the 2AM viewing left me dazed. Was there a scene that tied together Linderman w/Momma P? :confused:

Indirectly yes..

Comics tie Lindermann and Petrelli.

Parkman pulled from HRG's boss that he reports to Lindermann.

Momma Petrelli said she put Claire in a safe home.

We saw Hiro's father deliver the baby to HRG.

They are all connected but there are way to many questions at this point.

JYoung

04-24-2007, 12:57 PM

Good episode but when Linderman outlined his plan for bringing "a brighter future" to humanity, the scheme just seemed a bit too Watchmen-ish.

or too Outer Limits (http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0667826/).

DevdogAZ

04-24-2007, 12:58 PM

By the time I watched this, it was 2 in the morning. One of the few shows I won't wait to watch at a "normal" time. But maybe the 2AM viewing left me dazed. Was there a scene that tied together Linderman w/Momma P? :confused:
I think it was to be inferred by the dialouge of Linderman saying that he used to work with a group of people that had powers, until the rest of them started using their powers for personal gain, and then later Momma P mentioned something about the past and that she regretted some of her actions. I took that to mean that Momma P was one of the ones that Linderman used to work with who went to the "dark side."

LooseWiring

04-24-2007, 01:00 PM

Something just occurred to me. If Sylar had killed the super-hearing lady shouldn't he have been able to hear Peter's heart beating or breathing?

glumlord

04-24-2007, 01:00 PM

And your evidence is what?

She's able to change the surroundings. Shapeshifters cannot do that.

She also stated in this episode, she can make him see his worst nightmares and he will be tearing his eyes out or something.

If I remember correctly it was discussed previously in another thread.

mitkraft

04-24-2007, 01:01 PM

Big difference between shooting someone who is trying to kill you, and shooting someone who is unconscious on the floor, even if he is a killer. I am pretty sure I could do the first, but not the second.

No, Killing someone who tried to kill you and taking the opportunity to kill a super dangerous killer while he is unconscious who has tried to kill you and has killed many of your friends but can't be caught because of his power is pretty much the same thing.

I just don't understand this mentality. This sort of mentality is how we get bad sequels :D

You win the game.

There can be only one.

:up: :up: :up: But you should do it when radiation guy is around so he can do that EMP thing for effect!

glumlord

04-24-2007, 01:03 PM

Something just occurred to me. If Sylar had killed the super-hearing lady shouldn't he have been able to hear Peter's heart beating or breathing?

I know the invisibility is mind based, but I can't remember when they are walking down the street and talking if other could also hear them.

If not it may remove all traces of there existence from the mind of others (which would include heartbeats)..

This is a stretch though, and your probably right that he should of heard the heartbeat ;P

dtle

04-24-2007, 01:06 PM

We saw Sylar using the Force voice on Issac. Was this the first time he used it? I thought Pixie Girl (remember her?) shot herself to avoid that.

Sirius Black

04-24-2007, 01:08 PM

I know the invisibility is mind based, but I can't remember when they are walking down the street and talking if other could also hear them.

If not it may remove all traces of there existence from the mind of others (which would include heartbeats)..

This is a stretch though, and your probably right that he should of heard the heartbeat ;P

I thought that's what he was doing with the glass at first. Listening for it to reverberate or something. That thought only lasted a moment though. It did seem like he was listening for something and certainly knew which way to Force Push the glass shards.

jsmeeker

04-24-2007, 01:15 PM

I just want to see more of Candice as Candice.

Short pleated skirt. Boots. That's hawt. Gimme more.

unicorngoddess

04-24-2007, 01:16 PM

Rob Helmerichs

04-24-2007, 01:21 PM

what I didn't understand is why bother going invisable if you're going to continue to stand directly in front of the guy that's trying to kill you...especially when he has very sharp shards of glass levitating in the air in front of you. You're invisable. Take the time to move out of the last place you were seen. Sneak up behind the bad guy and knock him out or something.
Well, since he was stabbed in the back of the head, I assume he was edging very quietly towards the door. And since the shards were sent over a pretty wide area, he could have moved some distance.

Sadara

04-24-2007, 01:27 PM

pcguru83

04-24-2007, 02:00 PM

I completely forgot about the comics. I must be about 15 or 20 behind now. I'm going to get caught up on them, I sure wish the show would remind viewers of the comics, there's a lot of story line I feel like I'm loosing out on by not reading them. I sure hope the comics are part of the DVDs, when they come out.
Speaking of which, I don't understand why some are so averse to reading them. Quite frankly, I'd be a bit confused about a few of the things we'd seen so far if I had not had some of the backstory of the comics. They really are critical to read IMO.

I can see though how their importance may aggravate those who want to get everything from the show itself.

TAsunder

04-24-2007, 02:02 PM

I don't like reading them because I don't like the user interface and they seemed pretty boring in the early episodes. I would be much more likely to read a REAL comic book.

zordude

04-24-2007, 02:07 PM

Think of her more of projecting an illusion into the minds of others.

She doesn't actually change.

Exactly, it's like a Glamour.

Z

Graymalkin

04-24-2007, 02:13 PM

logic88

04-24-2007, 02:13 PM

or too Outer Limits (http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0667826/).

Ah, was never an Outer Limits fan but I guess it's true what they say about plotlines... :)

So why exactly did Isaac sacrifice himself again? I don't get it. If he wanted to die, why didn't he just commit suicide? What is there to gain by giving Sylar his abilities?

JYoung

04-24-2007, 02:14 PM

what I didn't understand is why bother going invisable if you're going to continue to stand directly in front of the guy that's trying to kill you...especially when he has very sharp shards of glass levitating in the air in front of you. You're invisable. Take the time to move out of the last place you were seen. Sneak up behind the bad guy and knock him out or something.

I was thinking that when Peter went invisible, he should levitated above Sylar to get the drop on him.

It may not have worked with Sylar's super hearing but......

TAsunder

04-24-2007, 02:16 PM

She's able to change the surroundings. Shapeshifters cannot do that.

She also stated in this episode, she can make him see his worst nightmares and he will be tearing his eyes out or something.

If I remember correctly it was discussed previously in another thread.

Huh? Since when did shapeshifters have a rule about changing the environment?

Why would she intentionally project a blur or bright glow around herself while shifting?

Why would it be impossible for a shapeshifter to shift into something scary? Is that another one from the shapeshifter rule book?

If she operates based on mind powers then certain heroes would be immune, I would think.

pcguru83

04-24-2007, 02:18 PM

I don't like reading them because I don't like the user interface and they seemed pretty boring in the early episodes. I would be much more likely to read a REAL comic book.
If you go the Novel Library page you can download them as PDF files. That's what I do, and I enjoy reading them much more. Like you, I didn't care too much for their online interface.

Check it out here (http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/novels/novels_library.shtml)

Sirius Black

04-24-2007, 02:20 PM

I don't like reading them because I don't like the user interface and they seemed pretty boring in the early episodes. I would be much more likely to read a REAL comic book.

There are "Printable Versions" of all of them (PDFs). I downloaded the first 16 today. They are rather large for such a short comic but they do look good and they print fine. I printed them two pages per sheet. Perfectly readable.

two minutes late...

JYoung

04-24-2007, 02:23 PM

Ah, was never an Outer Limits fan but I guess it's true what they say about plotlines... :)

This is actually acknowledged in The Watchmen.
See the scene where Dan and Lauire visit Sally.

JETarpon

04-24-2007, 02:35 PM

If Linderman, Mother Patrelli, et al, have powers, and have for many many years, then Sylar is not "patient zero."

mitkraft

04-24-2007, 02:41 PM

If Linderman, Mother Patrelli, et al, have powers, and have for many many years, then Sylar is not "patient zero."

I wasn't under the impression that he was. Has that been implied or said?

edited to add: Ah, I just saw this in the online comics:

I just got through reading the online comics and now I see where this came from. In the Mohinder comic (one of the early ones). He references Sylar as "His Patient Zero. The First Of These People. A Man He Called Sylar." I'll have to go back and see how that works. Sylar is obviously not "patient zero". Maybe this was just a mistaken assumption by Surresh?

sushikitten

04-24-2007, 02:43 PM

If Linderman, Mother Patrelli, et al, have powers, and have for many many years, then Sylar is not "patient zero."

He might be patient zero as far as Mohinder's dad was concerned; if so, he obviously didn't know about the previous generation.

busyba

04-24-2007, 02:46 PM

Big difference between shooting someone who is trying to kill you, and shooting someone who is unconscious on the floor, even if he is a killer. I am pretty sure I could do the first, but not the second.
As far as Mohinder knew, Sylar was just as helpless as an unconscious person back when he pulled the trigger, so that can't be it.

If anything, I'd think it would be easier with an unconcscious person since you wouldn't have to look him in the eyes as you did it.

She also stated in this episode, she can make him see his worst nightmares and he will be tearing his eyes out or something.
That's reminicent of Babylon 5.

I was thinking that when Peter went invisible, he should levitated above Sylar to get the drop on him.
Can he use two different powers at the same time?

madscientist

04-24-2007, 03:05 PM

Momma Petrelli said she put Claire in a safe home.Yes, but she also said "then there was a fire", so the safe home was NOT with HRG. It was where Claire lived with her mom before her mom was attacked by HRG & Co.
She also stated in this episode, she can make him see his worst nightmares and he will be tearing his eyes out or something.I was assuming she meant she would morph into Claire (or someone else HRG cared about), but with horrible injuries or something. I don't think she was going to reproduce a nightmare complete with scenery, etc.
We saw Sylar using the Force voice on Issac. Was this the first time he used it? I thought Pixie Girl (remember her?) shot herself to avoid that.I thought exactly the same thing! If it's a mistake it's a very bad one. However, I did notice that although Sylar used The Voice, Isaac didn't actually obey him. He just looked over at the gun (as far as I could tell). So, maybe Sylar can't really use it, or at least not to full effectiveness.
It did seem like he was listening for something and certainly knew which way to Force Push the glass shards.Another Dark Forces veteran! :p

My theory: Linderman's plan to blow up New York is proceeding nicely: HRG has escaped and taken Nuclear Man with him, and they're going to New York where they believe the hero tracker is, to destroy it. I'll be Linderman's plan was to plant a false story about where the tracker is, then let them escape. When they get to New York his plan is to get Ted to blow up. Of course, the comics make it seem like a third party blew up in at least one timeline, the one they changed by saving Claire. So, a lot of options.

As for the comics: I don't mind that them. Much like the Lost web stuff, they provide backstory that simply couldn't be put on TV: it's not interesting enough, and there's not enough time or money to actually film it. It's not required to understand and enjoy the show, but if you're interested in getting more deeply involved it's a resource. The interface is mildly annoying but it just takes a couple of minutes to read them so why not?

MickeS

04-24-2007, 03:11 PM

I don't like reading them because I don't like the user interface and they seemed pretty boring in the early episodes. I would be much more likely to read a REAL comic book.
The first episodes were indeed pretty boring, they just used the TV characters that existed at the stuff and didn't do much with them. But the last 15-20 or so chapters are much better, and work on a more independent but still related level.

glumlord

04-24-2007, 03:14 PM

I thought that's what he was doing with the glass at first. Listening for it to reverberate or something. That thought only lasted a moment though. It did seem like he was listening for something and certainly knew which way to Force Push the glass shards.

Thats a definite possibility :)

During that scene I kept thinking that Peter would fly over top of Sylar while invisible..

stalemate

04-24-2007, 03:14 PM

We saw Sylar using the Force voice on Issac. Was this the first time he used it?I thought that was just Sylar's "I'm pissed off now" tone. He even sounded like that at one point earlier in the episode (I think in Mohinder's apartment).

You could be onto something though.

NatasNJ

04-24-2007, 03:20 PM

Shouldn't Peter be able to use all of Sylar's powers now though? So he should have super hearing, etc....

glumlord

04-24-2007, 03:25 PM

I was assuming she meant she would morph into Claire (or someone else HRG cared about), but with horrible injuries or something. I don't think she was going to reproduce a nightmare complete with scenery, etc.

You know that is a definite possibility. I was watching it under the assumption that she makes people see what she wants aka a glamour or illusion.

It was discussed in another past thread, and if you look at the wiki site for heroe's:

http://heroeswiki.com/Candace_Willmer

You can see that it says:

Candace has the power of illusion. She is able to take the form of other people and change her surroundings to complete the illusion.

Sirius Black

04-24-2007, 03:42 PM

Shouldn't Peter be able to use all of Sylar's powers now though? So he should have super hearing, etc....

Can Peter actively use a power he doesn't know he has. He can use powers by accident (flying, healing, etc) but this would be different. If that's the case, Peter has quite a few more powers now like the Melt Stuff on Demand Power.

Aniketos

04-24-2007, 03:48 PM

Huh? Since when did shapeshifters have a rule about changing the environment?

Why would she intentionally project a blur or bright glow around herself while shifting?

Why would it be impossible for a shapeshifter to shift into something scary? Is that another one from the shapeshifter rule book?

If she operates based on mind powers then certain heroes would be immune, I would think.

The first (?) episode we're introduced to her, she hides the body of the chick Nathan and Isaac are in love with when the police come in, as well as the blood on Isaac's closes. When I think of shapeshifters I think of them only changing thir shape, not of surrounding objects, so in my opinion I think she creates the illusion in the person's mind.

EDIT: Typos

Aniketos

04-24-2007, 03:49 PM

Forgot to mention, and I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but I loved Parkman making the middle management comment about HRG, made me laugh out loud.

TAsunder

04-24-2007, 04:01 PM

I don't remember her hiding the body or blood, I remember her posing as the dead person some time later.

PJO1966

04-24-2007, 04:05 PM

I don't remember her hiding the body or blood, I remember her posing as the dead person some time later.

She posed as the dead girl, but behind her she masked the dead body on the bed. She is not a shape-shifter.

WinBear

04-24-2007, 04:11 PM

I wonder if Mama Petrelli's power is related to Peter's dreams? When he had the dream of flying as Mr. Deveaux died, I thought perhaps that was Deveaux's power and that Simone would have a power also. He's certainly been around Mom enough to have used her power even inadvertently.

cheesesteak

04-24-2007, 04:12 PM

Candace has the power of illusion. She is able to take the form of other people and change her surroundings to complete the illusion.
Is it an illusion if she actually changes form and changes her surroundings? I thought - and am too lazy to look it up - that an illusion made it look like things have changed when they really hadn't. I thought an illusion was a eye/mind trick.

I thought Candace only made you think you experienced what you experienced.

JETarpon

04-24-2007, 04:19 PM

I wasn't under the impression that he was. Has that been implied or said?

Yes. In the early episodes, Papa Suresh was looking for patient zero, and believed that that was Sylar.

MickeS

04-24-2007, 04:22 PM

Is it an illusion if she actually changes form and changes her surroundings? I thought - and am too lazy to look it up - that an illusion made it look like things have changed when they really hadn't. I thought an illusion was a eye/mind trick.

I thought Candace only made you think you experienced what you experienced.
Doesn't really matter for these purposes, since the effect is the same...

DevdogAZ

04-24-2007, 04:40 PM

Speaking of which, I don't understand why some are so averse to reading them. Quite frankly, I'd be a bit confused about a few of the things we'd seen so far if I had not had some of the backstory of the comics. They really are critical to read IMO.

I can see though how their importance may aggravate those who want to get everything from the show itself.
I'm not averse to reading them at all. I just want to read them all from the beginning, and every day I don't get around to it, it makes the task of catching up seem even more daunting, so I haven't gotten around to it.

unicorngoddess

04-24-2007, 04:41 PM

Yes. In the early episodes, Papa Suresh was looking for patient zero, and believed that that was Sylar.

He BELIEVED he was, but it turned out that Sylar didn't have any powers at all. He wasn't patient zero after all. Remember, Sylar doesn't have a natural abillity of his own. He doesn't possess this genetic evolutionary chromosone thing or whatever they're calling it. Sylar only had a knack for figuring out how things worked. He's somehow able to see what gives these people their power and somehow make the changes in his own brain. They never really showed how he does it though.

DevdogAZ

04-24-2007, 04:48 PM

He BELIEVED he was, but it turned out that Sylar didn't have any powers at all. He wasn't patient zero after all. Remember, Sylar doesn't have a natural abillity of his own. He doesn't possess this genetic evolutionary chromosone thing or whatever they're calling it. Sylar only had a knack for figuring out how things worked. He's somehow able to see what gives these people their power and somehow make the changes in his own brain. They never really showed how he does it though.
Oh, I think Sylar definitely has a power, just like the rest of them.

cherry ghost

04-24-2007, 05:00 PM

He's somehow able to see what gives these people their power and somehow make the changes in his own brain.

And that's his power/ability.

tivogurl

04-24-2007, 05:12 PM

Sylar is much too powerful to be bested while unconscious. No, the only thing someone like Mohindar could do was get out of there with Peter's body. He certainly couldn't leave Peter there was Sylar would just wake up, pop open his brain, and start his tinkering. Do we really want Mohindar to be a murderer anyway?
Too powerful? Awake, sure, but asleep? Pick up the gun, shoot him in the head. Takes all of 10 seconds, but don't wait around to find out if it worked. If it doesn't work, you're no worse off than before. Besides, there's little moral difference between that and shooting him in the head while he's bound and drugged (not that I think it immoral to rid the world of scum like Sylar).

unicorngoddess

04-24-2007, 05:32 PM

Oh, I think Sylar definitely has a power, just like the rest of them.

But Suresh did his test thingy on Sylar. He didn't have the genetic ability. In other words, Syler was NOT on the list. The other Heroes have naturally evolved to have their powers...Sylar is doing it scientifically somehow. Or he eats their brains. One of the two. Either way, it's not a naturally evolution like the other Heroes have.

Sadara

04-24-2007, 05:32 PM

Comics people... go read the comics.... They fill in a lot of blanks and I seriously cannot see them going back to tell those parts of the story in a future episode!! I believe I just read the last 23 comics and boy do I feel like a lot of questions were answered!!

After reading that many comics, I feel like I watched two episodes and I'm all giddy about it too! :)

TAsunder

04-24-2007, 05:35 PM

But Suresh did his test thingy on Sylar. He didn't have the genetic ability. In other words, Syler was NOT on the list. The other Heroes have naturally evolved to have their powers...Sylar is doing it scientifically somehow. Or he eats their brains. One of the two. Either way, it's not a naturally evolution like the other Heroes have.

I don't believe this is true at all. Where are you getting this? The only thing resembling what you wrote that I recall is that Sylar did not SEEM to have any power early on when in fact he did - the power to figure out how things work.

TAsunder

04-24-2007, 05:36 PM

She posed as the dead girl, but behind her she masked the dead body on the bed. She is not a shape-shifter.

I must have been half asleep during that episode, I don't remember that at all. If she has that kind of power she is severely under utilizing it. Just pretending to be someone is hardly the limit of her power. She should be creating fake buildings and rooms and all sorts of stuff.

WinBear

04-24-2007, 05:40 PM

Candice was using her glamor power in this episode well enough to make Micah believe she was Niki on behalf of Linderman. I loved that she was still there when Niki/Jessica got home and sassed her.

unicorngoddess

04-24-2007, 06:06 PM

I don't believe this is true at all. Where are you getting this? The only thing resembling what you wrote that I recall is that Sylar did not SEEM to have any power early on when in fact he did - the power to figure out how things work.

But it wasn't his "power". Suresh ran all those tests on him (in the episode Six Months Ago) and told Syler he was wrong about him. He wasn't "special" Even thought Syler was demonstrating the ability to figure out how things worked before this, Suresh still told him he wasn't special. He wasn't who he was looking for. It wasn't until after he killed his first victim that he demonstrated having an actual power. And I think even after Syler went back to Suresh with that power, he still didn't believe it was a natural evolution thing, which is when he found out that Syler had killed that guy. I think if Syler had an actual naturally evolved power it would have showed up in Suresh's test and Syler's name would be on the list as well.

glumlord

04-24-2007, 06:10 PM

I don't believe this is true at all. Where are you getting this? The only thing resembling what you wrote that I recall is that Sylar did not SEEM to have any power early on when in fact he did - the power to figure out how things work.

I tend to agree with you a bit more on this issue TAsunder but there is evidence to suggest that Sylar is different than the rest of the heroes.

When "The Company" aka HRG's organization had Sylar they did test and they couldn't find any DNA evidence to suggest he had any powers.

All the rest of the Heroes seem to have this common link where there DNA shows the powers.

Now what the hell that tells us I have no idea :)

stellie93

04-24-2007, 08:14 PM

[QUOTE=devdogaz I took that to mean that Momma P was one of the ones that Linderman used to work with who went to the "dark side."[/QUOTE]

So Linderman wants to kill .07% of the people in New York, and he's the good guy?

If Sylar doesn't have a power, but he can intellectually figure out how the powers work and then use them himself, then could he also implant them in other "non
hero" people? (if he was sane enough to do it) So we could all have healing power some day?

I too am too lazy to read the comics, and it annoys me a little that I'm missing something. So I appreciate when you guys post little tidbits from them here. In spoilers, of course. ;)

UTV2TiVo

04-24-2007, 08:47 PM

But it wasn't his "power". Suresh ran all those tests on him (in the episode Six Months Ago) and told Syler he was wrong about him. He wasn't "special" Even thought Syler was demonstrating the ability to figure out how things worked before this, Suresh still told him he wasn't special. He wasn't who he was looking for. It wasn't until after he killed his first victim that he demonstrated having an actual power. And I think even after Syler went back to Suresh with that power, he still didn't believe it was a natural evolution thing, which is when he found out that Syler had killed that guy. I think if Syler had an actual naturally evolved power it would have showed up in Suresh's test and Syler's name would be on the list as well.

Sylar does have the 'special gene' or whatever in his DNA or Poppa Suresh would never have contacted him in the first place (in other words, he's on the list). Suresh just concluded that he didn't have a power (or it had not manifested yet). I seem to recall that he told Sylar in an early episode that he had come across others who had the gene but were otherwise completely normal.

JETarpon

04-24-2007, 09:01 PM

He BELIEVED he was, but it turned out that Sylar didn't have any powers at all.

Yes, he believed so. I'm pointing out that he was wrong.

He wasn't patient zero after all. Remember, Sylar doesn't have a natural abillity of his own. He doesn't possess this genetic evolutionary chromosone thing or whatever they're calling it.

Has that been established? Do we know that his ability to figure out how things work is not a result of this genetic thing?

Sirius Black

04-24-2007, 09:08 PM

So Linderman wants to kill .07% of the people in New York, and he's
the good guy?

Not .07% of the population of New York. .07% of the population of Earth. That's what I thought Linderman said.

As I mentioned to a co-worker earlier to day, good is a point of view. Especially in comics.

Peter000

04-24-2007, 09:21 PM

I wonder what percentage of the population of Earth dies every day, on average?

unicorngoddess

04-24-2007, 09:47 PM

At Chandra's apartment, Chandra talks to Gabriel as he's performing some tests. He asks why if Gabriel wanted to be different that he didn't just change instead of fixing clocks like his father. Gabriel references a phrase from Chandra's book about "evolutionary imperative" claiming that evolution compels creatures towards certain behaviors. Completing his tests, Chandra appears disappointed and tells Gabriel that he appears to be "healthy." Gabriel is disappointed and asks whether they're going to perform additional tests. Chandra tells him that he may have been wrong and that Gabriel may not have any special powers, despite being on his list. Gabriel asks Chandra not to give up on him, but Chandra tells him there are others he needs to focus his attention on. Gabriel browses through folders of other suspected evolved humans and asks whether he thinks Brian Davis, who Chandra suspects of being telekinetic, is important or whether he's just going to give up on him, too. Chandra asks Gabriel to leave. On the street Gabriel glances again at a Post-It he took off the folder with Brian Davis's name and address written on it. As Gabriel leaves, Mr. Bennet gets out of a cab and approaches the building.

So Syler was on Chandra's first list, I'm assuming before he perfected the Human Genome Project. So I think it's unknown if Syler was on THAT list. But nothing came up wither Suresh's tests, nothing came up on the tests HRG, even AFTER he aquired a bunch of powers. Syler seems to do it differently somehow. I don't know how. But because of this difference I have a feeling that Peter won't be able to copy all the powers that Syler has.

nataylor

04-24-2007, 09:56 PM

I wonder what percentage of the population of Earth dies every day, on average?
According to the CIA World Factbook (https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/xx.html), the global death rate is about 8.37 deaths per 1000 people per year. World population is about 6,602,224,175. So that means there are about 55,260,616 deaths every year, or about 151,399 deaths per day. That's .002% of world population per day.

JETarpon

04-24-2007, 10:27 PM

Completing his tests, Chandra appears disappointed and tells Gabriel that he appears to be "healthy." Gabriel is disappointed and asks whether they're going to perform additional tests. Chandra tells him that he may have been wrong and that Gabriel may not have any special powers, despite being on his list. Gabriel asks Chandra not to give up on him, but Chandra tells him there are others he needs to focus his attention on.

So Syler was on Chandra's first list, I'm assuming before he perfected the Human Genome Project. So I think it's unknown if Syler was on THAT list. But nothing came up wither Suresh's tests, nothing came up on the tests HRG, even AFTER he aquired a bunch of powers. Syler seems to do it differently somehow. I don't know how. But because of this difference I have a feeling that Peter won't be able to copy all the powers that Syler has.

That's quite different than "not having any powers at all."

busyba

04-24-2007, 10:28 PM

So Linderman wants to kill .07% of the people in New York, and he's the good guy?
To be fair, I don't think he's conspiring to kill those people; he's merely discovered that it's going to happen and rather than prevent it is looking to make lemons into lemonade, as it were.

DevdogAZ

04-24-2007, 11:13 PM

So Syler was on Chandra's first list, I'm assuming before he perfected the Human Genome Project. So I think it's unknown if Syler was on THAT list. But nothing came up wither Suresh's tests, nothing came up on the tests HRG, even AFTER he aquired a bunch of powers. Syler seems to do it differently somehow. I don't know how. But because of this difference I have a feeling that Peter won't be able to copy all the powers that Syler has.
You keep mentioning that HRG's tests showed that he had no power. I don't recall that at all. And as for Chandra's tests, if I remember correctly, Sylar figured out what was going on, and purposefully hid his ability so Chandra wouldn't study him, but instead would lead him to other special people.

And happy almost YAMM, by the way.

jwjody

04-24-2007, 11:23 PM

We saw Sylar using the Force voice on Issac. Was this the first time he used it? I thought Pixie Girl (remember her?) shot herself to avoid that.
Extremely good point. Perhaps the writers aren't paying as close attention to the details as we are. Wouldn't be the first time (sigh).
I thought that was just Sylar's "I'm pissed off now" tone. He even sounded like that at one point earlier in the episode (I think in Mohinder's apartment).

You could be onto something though.
I thought that was Sylar's pissed off voice also. Didn't Peter's voice get that sound when he was having his showdown with Isaac when Simone was killed?

J

wprager

04-24-2007, 11:46 PM

Extremely good point. Perhaps the writers aren't paying as close attention to the details as we are. Wouldn't be the first time (sigh).

Yup. This ain't Lost. Not a joke, just an observation.

getreal

04-24-2007, 11:51 PM

And happy almost YAMM, by the way.
:confused: YAMM?? :confused:

phox_mulder

04-25-2007, 12:03 AM

:confused: YAMM?? :confused:

Something to do with 1,000 posts.

Mine came and went without me even knowing about it.

No, I don't know what YAMM actually means.

Edit: I missed two of mine, now that I look over there.

phox

JETarpon

04-25-2007, 12:05 AM

:confused: YAMM?? :confused:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=yamm

He was talking to unicorn.

alansh

04-25-2007, 12:10 AM

It's been a mainstay in comics (especially X-Men, but Watchmen is where it's most often been lifted from) since the 80s, and common since the 60s.The "hated and feared next evolution" goes way back. Slan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slan) by A.E. van Vogt from 1940 is a prime example.

JYoung

04-25-2007, 12:48 AM

But because of this difference I have a feeling that Peter won't be able to copy all the powers that Syler has.

Why would Peter be able to copy some of Sylar's stolen powers but not all of them?

steve614

04-25-2007, 12:54 AM

Not .07% of the population of New York. .07% of the population of Earth. That's what I thought Linderman said.

As I mentioned to a co-worker earlier to day, good is a point of view. Especially in comics.

Supposedly, from the discussion Linderman had with (?) on the rooftop, the destruction of New York would result in the loss of .07% of the worlds population (at least that's what I got from it).
So, if the world population is 6,602,224,175 people, then 4,621,557 people must live in New York (if my math is correct).

Sound about right?

stalemate

04-25-2007, 12:58 AM

I'm not even sure how it would work for Peter to copy Sylar's powers. When he uses someone else's power he "remembers how they make him feel" or something like that and that enables their power. Sylar has so many powers and he can use different one simultaneously. What will happen when Peter remembers how Sylar makes him feel? I'm interested to know. Will he have complete control?

steve614

04-25-2007, 01:03 AM

balboa dave

04-25-2007, 02:03 AM

We saw Sylar using the Force voice on Issac. Was this the first time he used it? I thought Pixie Girl (remember her?) shot herself to avoid that.Since he kills his victims anyways, the gunshot wouldn't have been a deterrent from learning her powers. He started to use the voice right after he escaped, on Claire's "mom", but was interrupted by Mr. Bennet.

balboa dave

04-25-2007, 02:19 AM

Yup. This ain't Lost. Not a joke, just an observation.Yet Heroes wouldn't exist without Lost. Executives at NBC came to Tim Kring, and specifically asked him to come up with similar programming. Here's the Wired article (http://www.wired.com/entertainment/hollywood/news/2007/04/magkring) for reference. There's minor spoilers if you don't read the on-line comics, and some discussion of next week's episode, which is a spoiler, but since it's heavily foreshadowed by ending of this episode, it's not too bad.

stalemate

04-25-2007, 07:13 AM

Since he kills his victims anyways, the gunshot wouldn't have been a deterrent from learning her powers. He started to use the voice right after he escaped, on Claire's "mom", but was interrupted by Mr. Bennet.I'm not sure. I thought the his learning processed killed them as he learned the power. I'm not convinced he can learn the power of someone that is already dead. I thought it was as he "took apart" their brain and figured out how it worked there is the inevitable side effect that they will die. He wouldn't be able to find out much about the "how it works" aspect of a dead brain with a hole blasted through it.

Time will tell I guess.

balboa dave

04-25-2007, 07:38 AM

stalemate

04-25-2007, 07:41 AM

So the scenes where he used the voice isn't convincing enough for you? Tough crowd.I had never considered that voice to be the "force voice" until I read this thread -- just his pissed off tone. Since he has yet to convince someone to take a certain action, I remain unconvinced. The "force voice" as demonstrated by Eden was something beyond just sounding scary.

Gunnyman

04-25-2007, 08:14 AM

Yet Heroes wouldn't exist without Lost. Executives at NBC came to Tim Kring, and specifically asked him to come up with similar programming. Here's the Wired article (http://www.wired.com/entertainment/hollywood/news/2007/04/magkring) for reference. There's minor spoilers if you don't read the on-line comics, and some discussion of next week's episode, which is a spoiler, but since it's heavily foreshadowed by ending of this episode, it's not too bad.

That was an excellent article. I just finished reading it. Kring has no comic background at all, but sure knows how to tell a story.

Menarion

04-25-2007, 08:17 AM

I'm not sure. I thought the his learning processed killed them as he learned the power. I'm not convinced he can learn the power of someone that is already dead. I thought it was as he "took apart" their brain and figured out how it worked there is the inevitable side effect that they will die. He wouldn't be able to find out much about the "how it works" aspect of a dead brain with a hole blasted through it.

I'm not convinced he actually has to take apart their brain for his power to work. I think this is what he thinks and likes to do. If I recall correctly (it's possible I'm not), the person with the ability to melt things did not have the top of his head removed and brain gone when Sylar went in there to get his blood to give to Mohinder to test. Anyone else remember that scene?

balboa dave

04-25-2007, 08:40 AM

I'm not convinced he actually has to take apart their brain for his power to work. I think this is what he thinks and likes to do. If I recall correctly (it's possible I'm not), the person with the ability to melt things did not have the top of his head removed and brain gone when Sylar went in there to get his blood to give to Mohinder to test. Anyone else remember that scene?I remember the scenes well, but not perfectly. That's why I still have all of them on my TiVo. That's why I know Sylar used the voice a few episodes ago.

It wasn't explicitly shown, probably for budget reasons, but it was implied, as the the top of melting guy's head was obscured by plastic, and there was blood everywhere. Oh, and he didn't get blood, he swabbed inside the guy's cheek. We also know from the waitress that Sylar killed that he only needs a few seconds to get what he needs, although how long it takes before he can use the power is not clear. I like to think he eats the brain, but there is no evidence of that at all. Really, I think he just has to physically touch it, like the watches he used to repair.

TAsunder

04-25-2007, 09:41 AM

So Syler was on Chandra's first list, I'm assuming before he perfected the Human Genome Project. So I think it's unknown if Syler was on THAT list. But nothing came up wither Suresh's tests, nothing came up on the tests HRG, even AFTER he aquired a bunch of powers. Syler seems to do it differently somehow. I don't know how. But because of this difference I have a feeling that Peter won't be able to copy all the powers that Syler has.

I don't believe this is right. They found telekenesis and said they hadn't identified his other powers in the HRG lab. Sylar is definitely shown to have powers. His introduction in 6 months ago showed him fixing a watch that had been broken for a very long time (i.e. beyond repair for anyone without his powers). They frequently if not always play a "clock ticking" noise when sylar is around. My memory isn't perfect (as demonstrated by the illusion girl debate), but I am almost positive that they have conclusively demonstrated that sylar has a power.

TAsunder

04-25-2007, 09:43 AM

I like to think he eats the brain, but there is no evidence of that at all. Really, I think he just has to physically touch it, like the watches he used to repair.

I believe it was mentioned in a previous thread that one of the comics shows him eating the brains

unicorngoddess

04-25-2007, 09:47 AM

That's quite different than "not having any powers at all."

I never said that. My point was it doesn't seem to me like Syler has the evolved-type powers that the other Heroes have. He has stolen the powers from others, and not in a way like Peter does it. He has to kill his victims and do something with their brains in order for him to get the powers. I'm invisioning something like in The 4400. Like Syler was able to figure out exactly what it is in these peoples brains and has somehow found a way to consume that power himself.

Sirius Black

04-25-2007, 09:59 AM

I never said that. My point was it doesn't seem to me like Syler has the evolved-type powers that the other Heroes have. He has stolen the powers from others, and not in a way like Peter does it. He has to kill his victims and do something with their brains in order for him to get the powers. ... Like Syler was able to figure out exactly what it is in these peoples brains and has somehow found a way to consume that power himself.

The ability to consume a power is a power itself. Sylar does have a power. I really don't know where the confusion is coming from. Just because the way he consumes his power is through feasting on the warm gooey centers of other heroes doesn't change this.

getreal

04-25-2007, 12:06 PM

I like to think he eats the brain...
Talk about "brain food". Ewww ...

Do you know how many calories (http://www.calorie-count.com/calories/item/13320.html) there are in eating brain? Apparently 63% of the calories are from fat. 59% of those total calories are from saturated fat. And that's just from a COOKED beef brain. I don't know about raw human brain. Ugh!

Sylar should start looking like Hurley by next season.

p.s. YAMM = "yet another meaningless milestone".

jsmeeker

04-25-2007, 12:08 PM

busyba

04-25-2007, 12:16 PM

Supposedly, from the discussion Linderman had with (?) on the rooftop, the destruction of New York would result in the loss of .07% of the worlds population (at least that's what I got from it).
So, if the world population is 6,602,224,175 people, then 4,621,557 people must live in New York (if my math is correct).

Sound about right?
NYC's population is around 8 million (and that number jumps up a lot during the day when all the people come in from out of town to go to work).

The 0.07% value is the total number of people who will die in the explosion, which is not necessarily the entire population of NYC. Let's say the bomb goes off in midtown east, even a really big explosion will only take out most of Manhattan and just a part of Queens and Brooklyn (and probably an even smaller part of the Bronx).

According to Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City#Boroughs), Manhattan has 1.6M people, Brooklyn has 2.5M and Queens has 2.3M, and Brooklyn and Queens are really large in terms of geographic size, so a significant number of those 4.8M people are going to be safely away from the blast radius.

Taking into account the large number of additional people that will be in Manhattan during the day that aren't counted in the above figures, I'd say 4.6 million is a fair estimate.

JohnB1000

04-25-2007, 12:43 PM

I'll admit to not reading the whole thread yet.

not quite as blown away as everyone else with the ep'. One thing that stands out to me is their 24 like ability to travel from Las Vegas to NY or Texas to NY in unbelievably short amounts of time.

I hate the shape shifter, I generally hate shape shifters in TV Series (except in DS9) because you just can't trust the show when one of them is around.

MickeS

04-25-2007, 12:45 PM

NYC's population is around 8 million (and that number jumps up a lot during the day when all the people come in from out of town to go to work).

The 0.07% value is the total number of people who will die in the explosion, which is not necessarily the entire population of NYC. Let's say the bomb goes off in midtown east, even a really big explosion will only take out most of Manhattan and just a part of Queens and Brooklyn (and probably an even smaller part of the Bronx).

According to Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City#Boroughs), Manhattan has 1.6M people, Brooklyn has 2.5M and Queens has 2.3M, and Brooklyn and Queens are really large in terms of geographic size, so a significant number of those 4.8M people are going to be safely away from the blast radius.

Taking into account the large number of additional people that will be in Manhattan during the day that aren't counted in the above figures, I'd say 4.6 million is a fair estimate.

Didn't they also actually say "half the people in New York City" in the episode?

ireland967

04-25-2007, 12:50 PM

Didn't they also actually say "half the people in New York City" in the episode?

I do believe Linderman said that, which makes the numbers jive.

Bierboy

04-25-2007, 12:52 PM

...I hate the shape shifter, I generally hate shape shifters in TV Series (except in DS9) because you just can't trust the show when one of them is around.I tend to agree here. Using a shapeshifter is just a way to give the writers leeway to do just about anything.

TAsunder

04-25-2007, 01:15 PM

About the voice. Here's my thought... she blew her brains out, sylar ate them / examined them, but they weren't complete and thus he doesn't have full mastery or understanding of her power. Discuss.

JETarpon

04-25-2007, 01:31 PM

I never said that.

Yes, you did.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5092336&&#post5092336

He BELIEVED he was, but it turned out that Sylar didn't have any powers at all.

DevdogAZ

04-25-2007, 01:41 PM

I'll admit to not reading the whole thread yet.

not quite as blown away as everyone else with the ep'. One thing that stands out to me is their 24 like ability to travel from Las Vegas to NY or Texas to NY in unbelievably short amounts of time.
When in this episode did anyone travel from one remote place to another? I don't remember it (although it may have easily happened). But even if they did, this isn't like 24 where 10 minutes of TV time is supposed to equal 10 minutes of real time. If a character on Heroes is in Vegas in one scene and in NY in the next scene, there's no reason that it couldn't be the next day or even the next week. I don't see anything unrealistic about that.

ping

04-25-2007, 01:49 PM

About the voice. Here's my thought... she blew her brains out, sylar ate them / examined them, but they weren't complete and thus he doesn't have full mastery or understanding of her power. Discuss.

Not much to discuss: the creators of the show have said...

(spoilerized interview info from outside the aired episodes)

Sylar's (and Peter's) "scary voice" was for dramatic effect and is not to be confused with Eden's power of persuasion.

latenight

04-25-2007, 02:01 PM

OK .. I think I actually figured out what the heck is going on (based on the previews). I'm going to Spolerize in case people dont want preview information

Obviously in the future Nathan becomes President but then why does Syler paint himself as President. In the future Syler IS Nathan, or at least looks like him. I think somewhere down the line he aquires the powers from the shape shifter and impersonates Nathan. This explains why Nathan is seen in the future saying how he is "The most special person" , which is one of the things weve heard Syler say often.

I think the bomb will go off but the bomb is used to disable the device that is in NY that can identify "heroes".

I think I read it here already but Micah is being used to rig the votes for Nathan which is why he is only needed for the day (election day).

unicorngoddess

04-25-2007, 02:34 PM

Yes, you did.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5092336&&#post5092336

Didn't and doesn't are two seperate tenses. That statement was made in regrads to Suresh's tests on Syler. He didn't find anything. He DIDN'T have any power (or at least none could be found by Suresh) until he started killed people. He quite obviously has powers now, but it's HOW he gets those powers that I'm questioning. In other words, if it was his POWER to copy others powers, then why does he have to kill people in order to do it. To me, killing people isn't a power, eating brains isn't a power, I don't even think knowing how things work is a power (if it were, then a lot of people have it.) However, I guess if knowing how things work is a power, I'm wrong. I just don't see how that specific ability is an evolutionary jump for humans. I thought the whole point of the human genome project was to find people that have evolved to have extraordinary abilities.

Sirius Black

04-25-2007, 02:37 PM

What if Sylar is just a psychopath who merely thinks that he must kill in order to gain a fellow mutants powers but it is really the act of concentrating on how it works that brings him the ability?

unicorngoddess

04-25-2007, 02:39 PM

What if Sylar is just a psychopath who merely thinks that he must kill in order to gain a fellow mutants powers but it is really the act of concentrating on how it works that brings him the ability?

I'd be okay with believing that. He seems psycho enough to me. Maybe he just snapped because Suresh told him he wasn't special. But hopefully we'll find out for sure how he works by the end of the season.

JETarpon

04-25-2007, 02:56 PM

Didn't and doesn't are two seperate tenses. That statement was made in regrads to Suresh's tests on Syler. He didn't find anything. He DIDN'T have any power (or at least none could be found by Suresh) until he started killed people. He quite obviously has powers now, but it's HOW he gets those powers that I'm questioning. In other words, if it was his POWER to copy others powers, then why does he have to kill people in order to do it. To me, killing people isn't a power, eating brains isn't a power, I don't even think knowing how things work is a power (if it were, then a lot of people have it.) However, I guess if knowing how things work is a power, I'm wrong. I just don't see how that specific ability is an evolutionary jump for humans. I thought the whole point of the human genome project was to find people that have evolved to have extraordinary abilities.

I was never talking about his acquired powers. I was talking about his inate power to figure out how things work. The ability to look at/play with/eat a persons brain and figure out from that how a super power works is certainly an extraordinary ability. Papa Suresh's tests did not defintively say that Sylar did not have these abilities. Suresh's comments have a lot of "mays" and "may-nots." Nothing definitive.

You said "Sylar didn't have any powers at all." Then you said "Syler seems to do it differently somehow. I don't know how." To which I replied "That's quite different than 'not having any powers at all.'" Just because he may do it diferently doesn't mean it's not a power. I see no issue of tenses here.

busyba

04-25-2007, 03:01 PM

I was never talking about his acquired powers. I was talking about his inate power to figure out how things work. The ability to look at/play with/eat a persons brain and figure out from that how a super power works is certainly an extraordinary ability. Papa Suresh's tests did not defintively say that Sylar did not have these abilities. Suresh's comments have a lot of "mays" and "may-nots." Nothing definitive.

You said "Sylar didn't have any powers at all." Then you said "Syler seems to do it differently somehow. I don't know how." To which I replied "That's quite different than 'not having any powers at all.'" Just because he may do it diferently doesn't mean it's not a power. I see no issue of tenses here.
I think he's saying that Sylar's ability to figure out how things work isn't a "Power" the way all the other heroes' powers are "Powers", it's just a talent.

It's like the difference between how Micah can manipulate computers and how Chloe from 24 can manipulate computers. :)

Sirius Black

04-25-2007, 03:23 PM

It's like the difference between how Micah can manipulate computers and how Chloe from 24 can manipulate computers. :)

Yup, Micah has a power that makes computers do what he wants. Chloe uses her charming personality and the computer does she wants. :)

RickStrobel

04-25-2007, 03:27 PM

Rob Helmerichs

04-25-2007, 03:39 PM

I think he's saying that Sylar's ability to figure out how things work isn't a "Power" the way all the other heroes' powers are "Powers", it's just a talent.
Well, for all the people I've killed and eaten their brains, I've never gotten any of their talents...

It's got to be a power. Nothing else makes even the teensiest bit of sense, and in its own way, this show seems to put out a lot of effort to make sense.

ping

04-25-2007, 03:42 PM

Here's how they can (will) stop the bomb: put a spike in Peter's neck for a day.

If Peter is supposed to blow up New York the day after the election then just "kill" him for the day. On Thursday pull the spike out. The world is saved.

For those reading the graphic novels, the latest one, well...

...it changes everything. Sylar is the bomb? Wow.

Or does it mean he was the bomb in the timeline where Sylar killed Claire, but that now that she has been saved, Peter is the bomb?

TAsunder

04-25-2007, 03:48 PM

Not much to discuss: the creators of the show have said...

(spoilerized interview info from outside the aired episodes)

Sylar's (and Peter's) "scary voice" was for dramatic effect and is not to be confused with Eden's power of persuasion.

Party pooper :mad:

JohnB1000

04-25-2007, 05:03 PM

When in this episode did anyone travel from one remote place to another? I don't remember it (although it may have easily happened). But even if they did, this isn't like 24 where 10 minutes of TV time is supposed to equal 10 minutes of real time. If a character on Heroes is in Vegas in one scene and in NY in the next scene, there's no reason that it couldn't be the next day or even the next week. I don't see anything unrealistic about that.

I honestly don't really care and it doesn't spoil the show for me. I realize time could have passed but events didn't suggest that.

The two moves were Nathan was in LV with Linderman then arrives at home as dead Peter is delivered. The HRG was in prison with Eric Roberts, next Eric Roberts is in NY. I realize time could have passed but that time is not clearly represented in the show. For example we have last ep Sylar and the Doc (Indian guys whose name I forget), Peter arrives, gets killed by glass, taken home. Mixed in with that is Nathan in LV followed by Nathan arriving back in NY. The Sylar scenes suggest a continuous hour or two.

clreimers

04-25-2007, 05:04 PM

Future Hiro had a much darker voice than Present Hiro. I guess it goes with looking much more like a badass. :)

He also didn't have a Japanese accent.

Legion

04-25-2007, 05:19 PM

I honestly don't really care and it doesn't spoil the show for me. I realize time could have passed but events didn't suggest that.

The two moves were Nathan was in LV with Linderman then arrives at home as dead Peter is delivered. The HRG was in prison with Eric Roberts, next Eric Roberts is in NY. I realize time could have passed but that time is not clearly represented in the show. For example we have last ep Sylar and the Doc (Indian guys whose name I forget), Peter arrives, gets killed by glass, taken home. Mixed in with that is Nathan in LV followed by Nathan arriving back in NY. The Sylar scenes suggest a continuous hour or two.

So when Sylar is laying there knocked out....why didnt Suresh take care of him once and for all? He was prepared to do it a few minutes earlier. Peter is dead. he isnt going to get better at that point. Why carry him off to mommy before popping a cap in Sylar?

clreimers

04-25-2007, 05:24 PM

steve614

04-25-2007, 05:26 PM

NYC's population is around 8 million (and that number jumps up a lot during the day when all the people come in from out of town to go to work).

The 0.07% value is the total number of people who will die in the explosion, which is not necessarily the entire population of NYC. Let's say the bomb goes off in midtown east, even a really big explosion will only take out most of Manhattan and just a part of Queens and Brooklyn (and probably an even smaller part of the Bronx).

According to Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City#Boroughs), Manhattan has 1.6M people, Brooklyn has 2.5M and Queens has 2.3M, and Brooklyn and Queens are really large in terms of geographic size, so a significant number of those 4.8M people are going to be safely away from the blast radius.

Taking into account the large number of additional people that will be in Manhattan during the day that aren't counted in the above figures, I'd say 4.6 million is a fair estimate.

That makes sense. I didn't know the population of NYC, but I at least was on the right track as to what the .07% was supposed to mean. :o

Church AV Guy

04-25-2007, 05:28 PM

Yup, Micah has a power that makes computers do what he wants. Chloe uses her charming personality and the computer does she wants. :)
Good Grief--get a clue! Micah gets into the machine with his mind and changes the logic to do what he wants. Chloe on 24 scowls at it with a brooding stare until the machine capitulates. It's Chloe on Smallville that uses her charming personality to get the computer to do what she wants.

Church AV Guy

04-25-2007, 05:30 PM

So when Sylar is laying there knocked out....why didnt Suresh take care of him once and for all? He was prepared to do it a few minutes earlier. Peter is dead. he isnt going to get better at that point. Why carry him off to mommy before popping a cap in Sylar?
That would have shortened the story arc too much. It makes too much sense too.

steve614

04-25-2007, 05:34 PM

I'd be okay with believing that. He seems psycho enough to me. Maybe he just snapped because Suresh told him he wasn't special. But hopefully we'll find out for sure how he works by the end of the season.

There's no maybe about Sylar going psycho when Suresh told him that.

IMO, Sylar does have an original power. It may not be "super" like the other heroes, but being able to see the subtlest details and "knowing" how they are supposed to work is a power.

JETarpon

04-25-2007, 07:26 PM

For those reading the graphic novels, the latest one, well...

...it changes everything. Sylar is the bomb? Wow.

Or does it mean he was the bomb in the timeline where Sylar killed Claire, but that now that she has been saved, Peter is the bomb?

No, I think you are misinterpreting things.

Initially, Sylar was the bomb. So Hiro realized he had to have someone from the past change the timeline so that Syalr did not have the regenerative powers. To do that, he went back in time and confronted Peter, telling him "Save the cheerleader, save the world." So then Peter saved the cheerleader, and Sylar could no longer regenerate when Hiro stabbed him. Now, apparently, the bomb still goes off, but we don't know if it will be Sylar or Peter. The timeline has changed, because Sylar can no longer regenerate as he originally could.

packerfan

04-25-2007, 07:53 PM

I missed the last couple of minutes when hiro and his sidekick walked into the appartement with all of the newspaper clippings. Can someone fill me in on what happened after that?

DevdogAZ

04-25-2007, 07:55 PM

I missed the last couple of minutes when hiro and his sidekick walked into the appartement with all of the newspaper clippings. Can someone fill me in on what happened after that?
All you have to do is read the thread. If your TiVo cut off the end, it's a good bet it's happened to someone else and what you're looking for has already been posted.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5090101&&#post5090101

DevdogAZ

04-25-2007, 08:27 PM

I honestly don't really care and it doesn't spoil the show for me. I realize time could have passed but events didn't suggest that.

The two moves were Nathan was in LV with Linderman then arrives at home as dead Peter is delivered. The HRG was in prison with Eric Roberts, next Eric Roberts is in NY. I realize time could have passed but that time is not clearly represented in the show. For example we have last ep Sylar and the Doc (Indian guys whose name I forget), Peter arrives, gets killed by glass, taken home. Mixed in with that is Nathan in LV followed by Nathan arriving back in NY. The Sylar scenes suggest a continuous hour or two.
Anytime we're talking about Nathan, don't forget that he could fly from LV to NYC in a matter of minutes, so that's not really that unrealistic. As for Eric Roberts, I don't recall there being any indication that the scenes with him in Texas and the scenes with him in NYC were supposed to be very close together.

dylking

04-26-2007, 12:11 AM

Yeah. A Highlander-Heroes crossover would be verrrrrrrry interesting. But stupid.

Who's old enough to get that reference? :D
Me :D

I just watched this ep tonight....and I haven't anything to add to the ongoing conversation other than..

I hope they put the webcomics on the dvds :)

jwjody

04-26-2007, 12:39 AM

pallen4215

04-26-2007, 09:33 AM

He could also be sending Claire to Paris to keep her safe from the blast. I doubt she can regenerate if she's a pile of ashes.

Wolverine did in X-men 3. Well his body regenerated faster than Phoenix was killing him. But he's got adamantium on his bones, so who knows.

edit, had no idea how to spell Adamantium, googled wolverine and closet I could spell it and used that spelling, thanks.

tivogurl

04-26-2007, 09:43 AM

Wolverine did in X-men 3. Well his body regenerated faster than Phoenix was killing him. But he's got antimonium on his bones, so who knows.
Adamantium is what's in his bones.

pallen4215

04-26-2007, 10:33 AM

If anyone wants to read the journal and doesn't want to go through the whole save file as, I created a torrent for them. All 1-30 are there, enjoy.

Heroes 1-30 journal (http://btjunkie.org/torrent/Heroes-Journal-1-30/4324243d4e80ff1d8d9f1ffde99f48ac84e1bac28776)

WinBear

04-26-2007, 11:20 AM

I think I read it here already but Micah is being used to rig the votes for Nathan which is why he is only needed for the day (election day).

One of the web comics has the Hana Gitelman, the Wireless chick, using her power to counteract the fixed elections. It'll be interesting to see how she and Micah duke it out in cyberspace.

pallen4215

04-26-2007, 11:27 AM

One of the web comics has the Hana Gitelman, the Wireless chick, using her power to counteract the fixed elections. It'll be interesting to see how she and Micah duke it out in cyberspace.

My money would be on Micah, unless Wireless chick finds some way to control him.

Figaro

04-26-2007, 11:39 AM

One of the web comics has the Hana Gitelman, the Wireless chick, using her power to counteract the fixed elections. It'll be interesting to see how she and Micah duke it out in cyberspace.
Mica will just click "warn" on AIM and that will stun her.

MickeS

04-26-2007, 12:02 PM

No, I think you are misinterpreting things.

Initially, Sylar was the bomb. So Hiro realized he had to have someone from the past change the timeline so that Syalr did not have the regenerative powers. To do that, he went back in time and confronted Peter, telling him "Save the cheerleader, save the world." So then Peter saved the cheerleader, and Sylar could no longer regenerate when Hiro stabbed him. Now, apparently, the bomb still goes off, but we don't know if it will be Sylar or Peter. The timeline has changed, because Sylar can no longer regenerate as he originally could.

That's what ping asked in his question, and yes...
in the alternative timeline, Sylar was the bomb. I'm guessing that this timeline is the one where the next TV episode, which is set 5 years into the future, will take place.

Sromkie

04-26-2007, 12:49 PM

Well, for all the people I've killed and eaten their brains, I've never gotten any of their talents...

It's got to be a power. Nothing else makes even the teensiest bit of sense, and in its own way, this show seems to put out a lot of effort to make sense.

/agree

He clearly has a power. His power is to consume the powers of others, and then use these powers himself. If this wasn't a power on its own, then anyone could kill a hero, "eat their brain," and gain the power. And, no, there is no way that this is a talent, either. Manipulating your brain to gain a power that you have learned how to use from someone else's brain is not something that you can just have a knack for.

No, his power wasn't evident early on, but that's because he had not yet used it on another hero.

And, like many others, I do not like the inclusion of a character that can manipulate what people see. The easy out may be okay once or twice, but it could easily become a crutch, and I would hate to see this show resort to using a crutch to get out of corners.

hapdrastic

04-26-2007, 01:57 PM

He clearly has a power. His power is to consume the powers of others, and then use these powers himself. If this wasn't a power on its own, then anyone could kill a hero, "eat their brain," and gain the power. And, no, there is no way that this is a talent, either. Manipulating your brain to gain a power that you have learned how to use from someone else's brain is not something that you can just have a knack for.

No, his power wasn't evident early on, but that's because he had not yet used it on another hero.

His power is not only being able to absorb the powers but also to be able to detect them, the first time we really see his powers is just before his first kill...he's talking to the telekinetic guy and hears/sees/detects *how* his brain is "broken" to allow him to be telekinetic. This is prior to him killing the guy and using his brain-bits, so this is a natural, evolved, power.

classicX

04-26-2007, 02:00 PM

His power is not only being able to absorb the powers but also to be able to detect them, the first time we really see his powers is just before his first kill...he's talking to the telekinetic guy and hears/sees/detects *how* his brain is "broken" to allow him to be telekinetic. This is prior to him killing the guy and using his brain-bits, so this is a natural, evolved, power.

This doesn't necessarily mean that he can detect them - although it's possible. We've never seen him detect that someone has an ability. The telekinesis guy showed him the power before he realized he could take it.

classicX

04-26-2007, 02:03 PM

Didn't and doesn't are two seperate tenses.

He DIDN'T have any power (or at least none could be found by Suresh) until he started killed people.

Killed and killing are two separate tenses.

:p

classicX

04-26-2007, 02:07 PM

Why would Peter be able to copy some of Sylar's stolen powers but not all of them?

IIRC, every power that Peter has acquired has been from another "Hero", and he has to "learn" how to use them.
Peter can't just copy a power like Sylar does.

IMHO, there could be two reasons.

1. Peter has all of Sylar's stolen powers, but since Sylar has never demonstrated anything other than telekinesis in front of Peter, that's the only one he's aware of.

2. Peter is only able to take an ability that is "active," and Sylar is only able to have one power "active" at a time - therefore, Peter only has the telekinesis and nothing else.

ping

04-26-2007, 02:10 PM

This doesn't necessarily mean that he can detect them - although it's possible. We've never seen him detect that someone has an ability. The telekinesis guy showed him the power before he realized he could take it.

I'm fairly certain he cannot detect powers. He was genuinely surprised when Peter became invisible.

classicX

04-26-2007, 02:12 PM

First off... I don't care if I'm smeeking or not, I'm not going to read through 9 pages of posts. :p

Anyway... to my point.

I'm aware that usually in the movies, between the hero and the villain there are usually two main fights or battles, and in the first one the hero usually gets clobbered and the second fight is much more action packed...

but COME ON. At the end of the Peter-Sylar fight I shouted "IS THAT IT?!"

Why can't we see Sylar use some of the other powers he's attained that we don't know about? What happened to the freezing? Even the crappy "melting metal" power, or the super hearing?

*sigh* I bet the last episode is a season ending cliffhanger.

unicorngoddess

04-26-2007, 02:25 PM

Killed and killing are two separate tenses.

:p

Shhh....don't tell my 9th grade English teacher I messed up. She'd kick my butt.

As far as detecting powers goes, I don't think that's Syler's power either. Because if he could detect Peter's power when they were in Odessa, I think he would've taken a much greater interest in him then.

alansh

04-26-2007, 02:29 PM

The series creator has promised the NY-goes-boom story will be resolved this season. That's not to stop them from setting up next season, of course.

JETarpon

04-26-2007, 02:37 PM

Here's a question.

If Sylar killed Peter and got his power-absorption power, then would he stop killing people? If Peter knew that he would stop killing people, would Peter sacrifice himself to Sylar?

phox_mulder

04-26-2007, 02:40 PM

Does anyone else think Hiro's father might not be his real father? Hiro is nothing like him or his sister. Maybe he was placed under a watchful eye like Claire was placed with HRG.

Really, father seems to be a major player in this. Is it really possible he didn't know about his own son?

I don't read every thread all the way through, so I'll admit I could be smeeking from someone.

J

I think he is, and he knows about Hiro.

I think there's a group of 1st generation "Heroes" consisting of Hiro's father, Linderman, the Petrelli mom, even the Petrelli dad (since he was Lindermans lawyer, he had to be in on it) and some yet to be named, perhaps parents of the other heroes.

They found each other and devised an evil plot, perhaps Mohinder Sr. was in on the "finding".

Some couldn't stomach the evil, so they went out on their own,
Petrelli mom and Petrelli dad, the reason he's now dead.

Some stuck around with Linderman, Hiro's father and some of the "yet to be named's".

I did read through all the threads and still am possibly smeeking.

phox