Doctor Who 3x04 "Daleks in Manhattan" (4/21/07) *Spoilers*

[LoadStar]

For those just joining us, this thread is about episode 4 of series 3, currently airing on the BBC. An airdate in the US has not been set yet. That said...

Something about this episode just bugged me. I just wasn't particularly entertained by this episode, and started paying more attention to stuff like the horrible accents on the construction workers (sounded like actors with normally cockney accents trying to do a New York accent, and the cockney kept slipping back in) and other background details like that.

Two possible anachronisms:
- Wouldn't an elevator of 1930 require an elevator operator?
- Would an average person have been referring to it as "the Depression" in 1930? For some reason, it seems to me that (like WWI, which was correctly referred to as "the Great War" in this episode) it only took on the name "the [Great] Depression" until considerably after 1930.

I'm nervous about the development of the Daleks. Much like on Star Trek when they invented the Borg Queen, which ended up weakening the Borg as an enemy, this seems to have the risk of radically weakening how menacing the Dalek are as an enemy. We'll have to see how this plays out in the next episode, I suppose.

[Rob Helmerichs]

I thought both this and the previous were weak, at least by Doctor Who standards. They seem to be very ham-handed and shallow with the political commentary lately...

Hopefully this is just an anomaly, and they'll get back on track soon.

[Sherminator]

Something about this episode just bugged me. I just wasn't particularly entertained by this episode, and started paying more attention to stuff like the horrible accents on the construction workers (sounded like actors with normally cockney accents trying to do a New York accent, and the cockney kept slipping back in) ....... Soooo...

Not unlike an American trying to do a British accent? ;) (I watched a little of Brigit Jones's Diary on A&E today, and kept hearing Renee Zellweger dropping back to her native Texan drawl.)

[Krosis]

Well the poor people had plenty of reasons to be depressed :p

It made have been a while before it was called "the great depression", but I could see people calling it a depression pretty quickly (during the fact).

Not sure about the elevator operators, not sure if they were ever really required either, just the way things were done at first. Was the building officially open for occupation? Maybe the operators would come later.

I don't really notice the accents much so no comments there, I just say the Tardis translates everything that way, that's why the New Yorkers in the previous episode sounded british. Works for me.

So, merging Daleks and humans together makes a weaker Dalek? Perhaps. That human DNA may be the end of the Daleks :D

[Idearat]

So, merging Daleks and humans together makes a weaker Dalek? Perhaps. That human DNA may be the end of the Daleks :D

I always have that "thinking of time as linear" problem, but in a more future earth there is the bit about Rose and the captured Dalek absorbing a bit of her DNA.

But this time ( 30's ) it's more than DNA but a whole person, and an amoral misanthrope at that. None of Rose's goodness, so it might not have the same results.

[pgogborn]

Two possible anachronisms:
- Wouldn't an elevator of 1930 require an elevator operator?Not on a construction site, only after they start renting out the offices.
Would an average person have been referring to it as "the Depression" in 1930?I suppose if you were one of the unemployed living in a Hooverville you were unlikely to be referring as Hoover did to "a passing incident in our national lives". Perhaps you would be aware of words such as theseIt is true that all the world today is suffering from an economic depression; that there are millions of people out of employment; that there is suffering; and that the remedy for these unfortunate evils is being sought for and is occupying the attention of the statesmen of the world
From Frank B. Kellogg's Acceptance Speech on the occasion of the award of the Nobel Peace Prize in Oslo, December 10, 1929 >
http://ca.geocities.com/wedafrs/xwo/kellogg-acceptance.html

[pgogborn]

^ OK, I thought that President Hoover himself would have avoided using the Depression word... but he at least made an exception when blaming foreignersThe Depression has been deepened by events from abroad which are beyond the control either of our citizens or our government.
Radio address, October 18, 1931 >
Audio Recording (http://www.authentichistory.com/1930s/history/19311018_Herbert_Hoover_On_Unemployment_Relief.mp3)

[Sherminator]

..... Something about this episode just bugged me. I just wasn't particularly entertained by this episode, and started paying more attention to stuff like the horrible accents on the construction workers (sounded like actors with normally cockney accents trying to do a New York accent, and the cockney kept slipping back in) and other background details like that.
....
- Wouldn't an elevator of 1930 require an elevator operator?Now for a more serious response..

For the accent issue, The USA had only recently stopped acquiring most of it's population thru immigration. So there will still have been many people who grew to adulthood listening to their parents & grandparents European accents. These people whilst still developing an accent local to their current position will often fall back to the accent of their family. It still doesn't explain away why all of them were from English backgrounds.

Now for the elevator ...

1924 A system invented by Otis allowed proper distribution and stopping of elevator cars at four m/s without any action of operator other than pressing the buttons and closing the doors.
1924 Otis installed the first automatic "Signal Control" in New York City. The elevator cars required no attendants.

[dcheesi]

Not looking at this thread... just pointing out that even the episode title could be considered a spoiler...

[LoadStar]

Not looking at this thread... just pointing out that even the episode title could be considered a spoiler...
Ok, it could be. *shrug* Can't do much (anything) about that one.

[pgogborn]

Snakes on a plane.

[dswallow]

Star Wars. The Empire Strikes Back. Return of the Jedi.

Hmmm....

Shoot, even the name of some series gives stuff away... Heroes.

[zordude]

I forgot this was going to be a 2-parter or I would have saved this for next week.

Overall I thought it was decent, the only problem I have is that these exact Daleks have met the doctor in person. I dont think he could just walk in unnoticed.

Z

[Rob Helmerichs]

Overall I thought it was decent, the only problem I have is that these exact Daleks have met the doctor in person. I dont think he could just walk in unnoticed.
Humanoids--we all look alike. :D

[Agatha Mystery]

I forgot this was going to be a 2-parter or I would have saved this for next week.

Overall I thought it was decent, the only problem I have is that these exact Daleks have met the doctor in person. I dont think he could just walk in unnoticed.

Z
But they may have met this particular doctor in a different part of the time sequence. It might not have happened yet when they see him now. :p

[TiVoDan]

But they may have met this particular doctor in a different part of the time sequence. It might not have happened yet when they see him now. :p

They must have already met the doctor, because, they said that they were the only 4 daleks left in existence, in "Doomsday", they had all the Daleks which were locked in the Genesis Ark.

Also the Doctor had Martha ask the daleks the question, while he hid behind the crowd, because he didn't want to be recognized.

Of course, how they got to be the only 4 daleks in existence, in 1930, is another one of the linear time paradoxes.

[cheesesteak]

I thought it was funny that the human Dalek was still wearing the business suit.

At first I was wondering if they were going the BSG route with humanizing the Daleks. The resulting hybrid stopped that idea.

[Rob Helmerichs]

At first I was wondering if they were going the BSG route with humanizing the Daleks. The resulting hybrid stopped that idea.
Yeah, just as well. "Spyleks"? I suppose the viewer can tell which ones they are because during sex, they scream "EX-TER-MI-NATE!!!"

Nah... :D

[VinceA]

Of course, how they got to be the only 4 daleks in existence, in 1930, is another one of the linear time paradoxes.
The Time War eliminated 'all' of the Daleks throughout all of time except, of course, the Dalek Emperor that caused trouble at the end of Series 1 and the four Cult of Skaro Daleks: Sec, Thay, Jast & Caan. Rose eliminated the Dalek Emperor & his Daleks but the Cult of Skaro ones were still skulking abouts in the Void so they remained to cause trouble in Series 2 and again in Series 3

The Cult of Skaro Daleks initiated an 'emergency temporal shift' at the end of Series 2 and must have ended up in 1930.

[busyba]

Overall I thought it was decent, the only problem I have is that these exact Daleks have met the doctor in person. I dont think he could just walk in unnoticed.
It seems that the Dalek eye-stalks have an extremely narrow field of vision, so just standing off to the side a bit as the Doctor was doing is probably enough.

As for the accents, I thought they were pretty good and I was paying specific attention to that. I thought some of the more pronounced accents (Tallulah, the contruction workers, the boss man) were over the top caricatures of sterotypical accents, so they were bad in that regard, but I couldn't hear any british slipping into them (like with, say, Eddie Izzard in The Riches. :))

BTW, as soon as they said the Hooverville guy's name was "Solomon", I saw him splitting the loaf of bread in half coming a mile away. :D

[pgogborn]

BTW, as soon as they said the Hooverville guy's name was "Solomon", I saw him splitting the loaf of bread in half coming a mile away. :DAs an aside I reckon as on this occasion the full length associated Doctor Who Confidential is especially worth watching as it concentrates on the writer and writing including an interesting compare and contrast involving Diagoras and Soloman.

[scottykempf]

Daleks created the Empire State Building? Brings new significance to the original series episode "The Chase" where the Daleks chase the Doctor through time and stop at the observation deck of the Empire State Building!!!

[cheesesteak]

I'm pretty sure the Daleks did the programming for my Comcast dvr. Either that or a human with a plunger and a metal stick with no fingers did.

[cthomp]

Guess time: is Frank Frank Sinatra?

[PhillyJimbo]

I suppose the viewer can tell which ones they are because during sex, they scream "EX-TER-MI-NATE!!!"

Wouldn't they scream something more along the lines of "IN-SEM-I-NATE!!!" during sex?

[pkscout]

I wasn't that thrilled with this episode. I really hate the fact that the new companion is once again being written as a love interest for the Doctor. I thought they did an OK job with Rose, but to do it again just seems shameful. AFAIK I don't think a companion has ever been written as an unrequited (or even requited) love interest.

And I know the BBC is on a bit of a budget, but I thought the hybrid looked like they went back to the storage room and pulled something out from the 1970 drawer.

[Big_Daddy]

Wouldn't they scream something more along the lines of "IN-SEM-I-NATE!!!" during sex?


or PRO-CRE-ATE!!!!

I guess if they want li'l baby daleks, either of these would do.