Dodgy Tivo From Ebay - Status "7: Never Set Up - Call"?

[Pete77]

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[Raisltin Majere]

What makes you think it should have a lifetime sub? Are were you just hoping?

You said you told the CS rep that you were thinking of buying the unit, I wouldn't have thought they would have scrapped any evaluation sub based on that. The seller could have withdrawn the auction after all.

I suspect somebody bought the unit with the intention of having a "hi-tech" VCR as opposed to the PVR that it actually is.

i.e. they were attracted to the idea of not having to use removable media but not by the plethora of goodies paying for a sub would bring.

ergo a "never set up" tivo.

It would be good to see the content of the original drives, I'd wager they're manual recordings

[Pete77]

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[Raisltin Majere]

The firm concerned admitted it had no remote, no IR leads and no mains leads but said the disk spun when started and the green light showed as well so it appeared to be working and there was no reason to think it did not work as the house sale was the reason for it being sold.



Did they sell it as in working order, or did they just confirm, upon asking, that the drives spin up and the power light comes on?

[Pete77]

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[Pete77]

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[mikerr]

They said the drive spun up as normal and the light came on. In fact the drive makes several lound clainking sounds each time the unit is started, which even the most rudimentary knowledge would indicate this to be a failed hard drive.

The auction says "Working condition is unknown" if it's the one I think it is.
He only has 98% feedback too

Well we will now see honourable a trader they are. An honourable trader would give me most of the purchase price back but not the courier cost in this kind of situation.
After you have opened it up ? (I notice the picture has the warranty seal still on...)

Are you expecting a partial refund and keeping the unit?!

Honourable trader doesn't mean "sell as spare or repairs, then refund when a buyer finds it is not an easy fix."

Does it also flicker on rf out?

Also I can point them to having paid as much as for a working but unsubbed Tivo.
Not sure how that is relevant, you set your own price at auction...

[verses]

If it's the one I think it is, they also say;

Working condition is unknown as we do not have a remote with this unit.

And their Terms and Conditions state;

We check they are safe and basic functions etc but we cannot guarantee full perfect working order, please be aware of this before you bid and if you are in any doubt please DO NOT bid!

I'd not be too hopeful of getting a refund.

Ian

PS: Obviously hindsight is 20/20, but one of my personal Ebay rules is to avoid any trader with bad spelling/grammar, which that advert has plenty of. Also, I avoid adverts with minimal detail (unless they provide more in response to emails queries) which that also has. Although it's fair to say that I rarely get a killer bargain with the above policy :-)

[verses]

But it also says in the ad "We check they are safe and basic functions etc but we cannot guarantee full perfect working order"

But this one doesn't have any functions at all as supplied without fitting a new hard drive (not a customer documented procedure by the manufacturer), even if you got hold of a remote. And then it has the burning smell from the failing motherboard component, which also suggests it is not safe.

"Basic Functions" is quite vague, the fact that it powers on, LEDs light up and a HDD can be heard could be considered "Basic Functions". A burning smell can take a while to be noticed, especially if a component takes time to heat up, if they've just powered it on, seen it's "alive" then shut it down there's a fair chance they didn't notice it. Although I'd agree that gives you "some" grounds on their "Safe" clause.


I bought a Sky Digibox described by a seller as from a house sale but not able to test themselves (as they had no cable and no satellite dish) and it was fine and even came with a working unsubbed viewing card for the FTA Sky channels. That seller even offered me money off the closing auction price before he sent it out when I queried the likelihood of the item being faulty.

Well, it sounds like you took a gamble that paid off that time.

Ian

[bugmenever]

OK I admit I fell victim to stupid temptation and bidding fever in an Ebay auction for a Tivo which said that it had come from a House Sale and was being sold by a firm that seemed to buy and sell many things (a lot not electrical) at house sales. The firm concerned admitted it had no remote, no IR leads and no mains leads but said the disk spun when started and the green light showed as well so it appeared to be working and there was no reason to think it did not work as the house sale was the reason for it being sold

The Tivo delivered is just as described - shame on you for considering blackmailing them into refunding you some money in exchange for a non-negative feedback, just because it's not as good as you'd hoped. If they had guaranteed it to be in full working condition, you'd have a strong case - but you'd have paid more for the unit.
"Burning" smells can just be dust from a long-unused electrical device (which this sounds like), and the machine's disks spin up and the light comes on.
You're expecting far too much - they could have plugged it and done all sorts, but then they would say this in the auction and the device would command a higher price.

You gambled and lost - and you're now considering going to PayPal to get your money back even though the goods have been delivered as described.
You gambled and won with the Sky decoder box - did you ring up PayPal and get them to deliver another £20 to the seller as a result?

[ColinYounger]

Pete - don't tell me you HammerSnipe'd it as well. :eek:

[ColinYounger]

Ended: 25-Mar-07 19:24:43 BST
Winning Bid: 25-Mar-07 19:24:28 BSTYou did, didn't you.

<raises eyes>

[cwaring]

bugmenever why don't you say who you are since you obviously have some kind of longstanding agenda against me.
You call two months 'long-standing'?

Even the new alias you have chosen to post suggests it was chosen to make some kind of point.
and you know it's an old poster with a new alias how, exactly?

Perhaps you would like to say if you are nudunlavey, pgogborn, the moustachioed Honda fellow wearing a vest in his pic or quite who exactly.
Who gives a damn. You gambled and lost. Live with it :)

[ColinYounger]

I was far from sure I would win as a higher manual bidder determined to win could easily have come along and put in a bid higher than my Hammersnipe bid.Erm... look at the times of the close and winning bids.

If I had manually bid for that price a few seconds before closeThat's exactly what happened.

I actually manually won a second hand 3G mobile yesterdayGreat! Does it work? :)

I didn't know it would come with a dodgy MHEG decoder as well.and how would a rag-and-bone man know that as well just from plugging it in?

it has a broken hard drive and a broken video output so is in fact a completely written off unitPete - I'm sorry that you lost out here, and it's understandable that you want to lash out at someone. But from looking at the description of the item, the disclaimers and so on, you took a chance and it didn't work.

Harsh as it seems, I think you need to learn when to use HammerSnipe and when to be more cautious and learn from this experience rather than taking today's culture of blaming someone else.

[Rob Nespor Bellis]

If everyone else didn't basically think the unit was working then why did it sell for £63 and not only only the £20 or £30 a Spares or Repair unsubbed Tivo might fetch? :confused:

Well duh, it fetched £63 because that is what *you* were prepared to bid for it!

It was a gamble that didn't pay off.

Rgds,

R.

[ColinYounger]

some of you do seem to be taking pleasure in sticking the knife in here. Pete - I've already said I'm sorry that this didn't work out. I'm not a person of malice. I'm sure that we all here have made bad purchases on EBay early on. Mine was a mobile phone which 'had a few scratches' and 'basically worked' (quotes from my email archive).

'Basically worked' meant that 80% of the keys were functioning. Having paid £80 for said item, I wasn't pleased.

Another bidder bid £61.50 at 18:58:20 Before this bidding previously went to £45 with yet another bidder at 13:32:51 that day. My Hammersnipe bid of £63.50 at 19:24:28 had been set up nearly 24 hours earlier and I think was £67 or something.Remember what making a bid means on Ebay - or HammerSnipe - it's the MAXIMUM amount you're PREPARED to pay. So - someone came along and bid £61.50 and your maximum is above that and therefore you bid higher.

ALSO realise that you ONLY see the 'high' bids. So if I say my max is £20 and you say your max is £30, and current is £10, you will see TWO bids above the £10 - one for my max of £20 and your winning bid of £21.00. Does that make sense?

[ColinYounger]

No one has even taken much interest in what may be wrong with the video on this Tivo so far.(I thought you'd decided that it was something to do with the MPEG decoder? I can't suggest anything myself as I don't know enough about the hardware side of a TiVo to comment - perhaps it's a loose SCART wiring connection (internally to the TiVo).

Also, you know that if no-one has an answer, noone replies. :)

[alan_m_2004]

If the person in question is operating as a business then they are subject to the distance selling regulations - ie you can return it as not fit for the purpose or just return it because you don't like it! This does apply to ebay since it is not an auction site as the dsr exclusions require (search in the ebay help it does say this describing it as 'auction style listings').

If they are operating as a private individual then it truly is buyer beware and you have no warantee or come back except those stipulated in the advert.

I haven't seen the advert so can't comment on the nature of the listing. I'd also note good luck on getting ebay traders to honour their DSR obligations or trading standards to get involved, but legally they are obliged and you can pursue in small claims if you feel suitably vindicated.

(I say this having bought some hard disks off of an ebay auction and then had the seller ship completely the wrong units, money back in the end :( - this case is different but the distance selling regulations cover a number of possibilities)

IANAL :)

[PaulWilkinsUK]

Perhaps you would like to say if you are nudunlavey, pgogborn, the moustachioed Honda fellow wearing a vest in his pic or quite who exactly.
I guess Peter Seventy Seven that you're referring to me. Just seen the thread. Now you should know by now that if I *did* decide to have a pop, then I wouldnt hide under an alias. I'd just take the piss anyway.
I'll just dismiss the insinuation as a case of toys being despatched from the perambulator.
Lives and learns eh? :)

[blindlemon]

No one has even taken much interest in what may be wrong with the video on this Tivo so far.It's clearly a motherboard fault and therefore not worth trying to fix as you only paid £63 for the box.

[blindlemon]

This is clearly a broken unit which the seller, by also removing the remote control, seems to have gone out of their way to pretend that they did not know was broken.That's stretching it a bit far IMHO. More likely the box never had a remote and they didn't know what it was or how to test it.

It seems to me that the listing pretty fairly warns you that the unit might not be working, so I fail to see why you bid on it in the first place. The seller also has two negative feedbacks in the couple of weeks before your purchase, both of which were for items described as working, but which the buyers claim were not. Your item was not even described as working.

Personally, I always avoid these kind of "bulk junk" sellers and only buy from proper businesses selling new goods, or people who appear to be bona-fide private sellers offloading their unwanted personal property.

[PaulWilkinsUK]

I've always found the concept of -ve feedback quite interesting. Its almost looked upon as worse than calling someone a "f***ing w**ker who has sexual relations with his m*ther".
-VE feedback pah! Who cares. Its like poking your tongue out from 1000 miles away. :)

[frogster]

This Tivo is the proverbial Pig in a Poke (http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-pig2.htm)

You bid for what was described as a box with "Tivo" on the front, two LEDs and a whirring hard drive. And that's what you got.

Just like the vast majority of old crud sold on Ebay, this is old crud.

Moral : do not buy old crud on Ebay, unless it is priced accordingly.

[PaulWilkinsUK]

...Also the hard drive does not spin up but goes clank, clank, clank.
Not that I wish to berate the intelligence of your average house clearance operative but to be honest he's not likely to know what difference is betwix a "clank clank" and a "whizzzzzzzz" as far as HD's are concerned. Same as I wouldnt know what a good antique was if it came and slapped me in the face...

[alan_m_2004]

Their user id suggests they are a business and these goods very clearly are no longer fit for the purpose they were designed for.

I'm inclined to pursue the issue as much as anything to find out what right of redress one might have if buying anything a lot more expensive on Ebay and something goes wrong.

Pete - I genuinely wish you the best with that you will find that no one will back you up despite being in the right (again I don't know the rights and wrongs of the listing, I do think I understand how a business must trade over the internet although for second hand goods my knowledge is less clear cut)

see
http://reviews.ebay.co.uk/Distance-Selling-Regulations-And-eBay_W0QQugidZ10000000000140381
http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/business.html
http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/community/png-distanceselling.html

If you have purchased via paypal with a credit card then you have more avenues to pursue.

[TCM2007]

Clearly the way forward is to e-mail the seller's wife. Going to the boss is the best way to get immediate action I always find. ;)

[PaulWilkinsUK]

Clearly the way forward is to e-mail the seller's wife. Going to the boss is the best way to get immediate action I always find. ;)
Wise words mate :up:

[blindlemon]

What is the most likely Motherboard component that fails to cause this Don't know - I'm not an electronics engineer :o
how many failures with this kind of symptom have you personally witnessed?.None. That's why it must be the motherboard (or as you say some piece of circuitry attached to it). It's certainly not a drive problem.

[bugmenever]

bugmenever why don't you say who you are since you obviously have some kind of longstanding agenda against me. Even the new alias you have chosen to post suggests it was chosen to make some kind of point.


Sir, you are quite paranoid, rude and unwelcoming. I would recommend that you go to a medical centre and seek help and learn basic manners at the same time; however, you seem more likely to write to the non-Executive Directors of Tivo, the man who created vbulletin and Tim Berners-Lee in a vain effort to obtain my IP address and prove your crazy theories. Once you've realised that I am none of the posters above and am merely someone who is sick to the hind teeth of your ranting you may wish to apologise - however, it will be too late for this poster.

[Raisltin Majere]

I took it to mean the apology would not be accepted.

Pete, what on earth has this new member done to you in their 5 posts?

[Raisltin Majere]

I will review them.

Oh, first post - asking about specifically American things, over a month ago. Do you really think any of the people you named (or anybody for that matter), who have all argued with you without feeling the need to create a new user name, would go to such lengths, just to say what they may have already said in their usual guise?

[TCM2007]

People lurk for ages before posting Pete, and let's be frank it wouldn't take many days of reading to, erm, form an opinion about you.

Your paranoid streak had taken a back seat for a while, don't let it take over again.

[Tivo_noob]

I think Pete's being hard done buy here, 95% of posters to this thread appear to enjoy the fact that he's bought a dud Tivo. I reckon if Pete had set up a new account on the forums and posted under another guise as a first post he may have had a little more sympathy.

I also think you have a case with paypal, if the item was described in "Good used condition" and the lid was bent and marked then i certainly would not call it good condition and would pursue that avenue.

Good luck :)

[cwaring]

I think Pete's being hard done buy here, 95% of posters to this thread appear to enjoy the fact that he's bought a dud Tivo.
Can I just say that I must be among the other 5% then. I'm not pleased if anyone here is sold a pup.

However, if this is an error of assumtions, etc. on Pete's part then he's just an idiot ;) ;and I mean that in the nicest possible way 'cos I've someone made assumptions too and ended up looking foolish :)

[Raisltin Majere]

Tivo_noob is obviously a user name pete created so it would like somebody is defending him, it is testament to Pete's intelligence and foresight that he created this user name 7 months before joining TCF.

What? If anyone who disagrees with him is pgogborn why can't everyone who agrees with him be him?

Seriously, I don't think there's any malice here, nobody is pleased Pete bought a bad tivo.

[Raisltin Majere]

No Tivo_noob is just a fair and independently minded guy not inclined to run with the crowd just for the sake of it.

Pete, I was joking.

Who's "the Grumpy Sod with a war like theme to his name" I've looked back through the thread and the most likely candidate is me (majere similar to major :confused: )

I don't think I've shown any pleasure at the state of your tivo, I certainly don't feel any.

[Raisltin Majere]

He even has the term Grumpy Sod prominently in his profile and his surname is very close to the Latin word for War.

And no it wasn't you.

By the way I'm intrigued by your name. Are either you or one of your parents from France, or at least from somewhere that is French speaking?

Ah, don't know latin.

My user name here is a (mispelt) character from a book.

[johnnye]

Ah, don't know latin.

My user name here is a (mispelt) character from a book.


oo, oo, I know this one...

But I'm not sure I should admit to a background in D&D and other youthful fantasies :D And any way, I never inhaled, cough, cough :o

Pete, try googling Raistlin

[frogster]

Most very low value items on Ebay are actually fine.I'm sure they are. However they fall into the category of correctly priced crud that I mentioned.

Its easy to say it was obviously a Pig in A Poke now with the benefit of hindsight. The seller has a lot of feedback and most is very positive. I cannot see why it was therefore inevitable that this Tivo was a Pig in a Poke.Perhaps you didn't read what a Pig in a Poke really is? It is anything that you buy sight-unseen, no matter how good or bad it is. Caveat emptor etc. (For those who didn't read the link: a poke is a bag and so the saying means "Don't buy anything in a bag. Look in the bag first".)
Personally I would not buy any used electrical item anywhere without being able to see/test it first, unless it came with a money-back guarantee, or unless I paid a very low amount for it and was prepared to lose the money. And for Ebay items that goes in spades.

Also the hard drive does not spin up but goes clank, clank, clank.You will have no comeback under the ''fit for purpose" or "merchantable quality" rules as the vendor did not say that the Tivo worked properly.

However the description of the drive noise and the case condition are clearly false.

I see no reason why you shouldn't get your CC company to issue a chargeback if you don't get a refund from the vendor.

[ColinYounger]

BugMeNeverOh. I was reading that as BugMenEver and wondering what the heck it meant. :o

Let's start up a thread again how you say Blindlemon. :D

[ColinYounger]

....and another thing....

What DOES Status "7: Never Set Up - Call" mean?

[PaulWilkinsUK]

My 2 port USB 2.0 PCMCIA adapter is not even a piece of crud but a damn fine piece of equipment that keeps my PC running despite incompetents HP producing a motherboard so bad on this notebook that after 2 years all 3 USB sockets have now either broken off or stopped working.

Ultimately if this retailer refunds me most of the cost of the Tivo then it won't really be a big issue as they clearly aren't electronics experts. If they won't issue any refund then they will demonstrate that they have contempt for their customers.

And one does have rather more rights when buying something on Ebay using PayPal then when buying a Pig in a Poke from a market trader. :p
Well I wouldnt be so sure about that...
My nearest and dearest sold a pair of my Oakley sunglasses on eBay for £150.00 :rolleyes: . Sale confirmed, payment arrived, goods shipped... Paypal then removed the payment from our account because the card used for the payment was fraudulent.. so... no money no goods.. nice one eBay and Paypal :mad: . Hence we NEVER use eBay these days.

[cwaring]

Well I wouldnt be so sure about that...
My nearest and dearest sold a pair of my Oakley sunglasses on eBay for £150.00 :rolleyes: . Sale confirmed, payment arrived, goods shipped... Paypal then removed the payment from our account because the card used for the payment was fraudulent.. so... no money no goods.. nice one eBay and Paypal :mad: . Hence we NEVER use eBay these days.

Riiiiight. I'd be more annoyed at the fraudster than Paypal. They did their job; you just got stung. Sorry and all that but I don't think you can blame PP. Unless you can prove they knew there was a problem before you completed the transaction.

I think with something of high value like that I'd've used Escrow.

[healeydave]

Jees, just found this thread from yesterday and its already 3 pages long!!

okey, I've just scanned through all the pages to see if any of the specific (non slanderous) postings were actually answered. I don't usually bother if they're this long by the time I find them cos there's usually little to add.

I personally think you've ended up with a tivo return. Tivo had a centre that did very basic testing of returns I think in an effort to sift out systems with genuine faults and perhaps those that only had faulty hard drives etc. These systems would generally be poorly put back together and often the systems that have a main board fault would also contain a duff hdd.

However, I would point out that they often put a "F" on the quality sticker of the hdd in byro also.

The status 7 is indeed a system that HAS made a call to tivo in the past, kicking off the 7 day trial period, but this period has long since passed!

A tivo that has been owned and used on a PAYG subscription (e.g. has been an "Account in good standing") that has since ceased will generally come up status 8 "Closed".

I doubt this unit has ever been a "Lifetime" system and it certainly won't suddenly become one, no matter how long you wait.

As for unscrupulous ebayers, and there are many, they usually tend to haunt certain area's which I steer well clear off. You've got to be really careful when bidding on items like mobile phones and games consoles etc. There tends to be a lot of idiots that think its fun hijacking auctions or selling junk, I think its because there's predominantly a lot of young users that frequent these technologies.

I haven't researched this particular auction, but you can usually get a angle from the users history like reviewing his other auctions to see what he's selling etc. Again I haven't looked but from what I read above regarding his description, its a bit ambiguous, some comments suggest it should be better than it was and others suggest they've covered their ass. I would first contact the ebayer and just pickup on the points in your favor (keeping one's calm in the first instance) and see what they say. If they just quote their so called disclaimers which you might kind of expect, firstly you should use the Negative feedback, this is your prerogative to air your dis-satisfaction at a sale whether it can be read one way or another, its your auction and its how you feel about the deal that counts, thats exactly what this feature is there for!

Oh and the last piece of advice I was going to write, I have decided to PM you because I don't really want it to be out in the public domain.

[PaulWilkinsUK]

Riiiiight. I'd be more annoyed at the fraudster than Paypal. They did their job; you just got stung. Sorry and all that but I don't think you can blame PP. Unless you can prove they knew there was a problem before you completed the transaction.

I think with something of high value like that I'd've used Escrow.
Ahh well c'est la vie an' all that...

[ColinYounger]

the last piece of advice I was going to write, I have decided to PM youAwww! Dave - you've left us all in suspense now. :(

[iankb]

It's clearly a motherboard fault and therefore not worth trying to fix as you only paid £63 for the box.That does seem the most likely, and could well be the result of a lightning strike. However, there is a small possibility of it being a PSU failure, since disk heads often click out when they do not receive enough power (say at startup). Motherboard failures can often be seen by a close inspection for burnt components.

If you really want to risk yet more money on a replacement PSU, then I would recommend the £11 (incl. P&P) version from Tivoland, since the £29 version from TivoHeaven would be risking far too much on the small possibility of success.

[healeydave]

Although I couldn't rule it out 100%, I doubt the PSU would be the cause.

A common fault on the old Quantum drives is a head clunking sound, it does sound like a loss of power and them dropping down but I've always found this to be the drive actually faulty rather than an external power issue.

[AMc]

Can you post pictures of the video output - maybe it will jog someone's memory for a problem we've seen before?

If it's the decoder not the encoder, have you tried setting up a recording - it might have some value as a headless recorder with a network card.

[AMc]

If you put your reserved 30+10GB drives back in, connect a DVD player or similar to the AUX SCART and set a manual recording you should be able to see.
In fact if you just connect a source (with the drives in) and hit Live TV or connect an aerial and choose an AER channel I expect you'll find out.

Pictures of the video output on your previous recording might be useful - if you're getting a recognisable picture it might be rescueable - I'm not expert but it sounds more useful than a blank output!

[ericd121]

Perhaps you would like to say if you are nudunlavey, pgogborn, the moustachioed Honda fellow wearing a vest in his pic or quite who exactly.Hey, you left me out!
I'm so hurt, Pete. ;)

[ericd121]

Here's the thing.

You're bloody infuriating.

You can be very helpful; some of your opinions I agree with, and others are, at least, 'interesting' (ahem). :p

Even when I don't agree with your opinions, I'd be happy for you to express them if you did so without some of the traits that have been pointed out to you on numerous occasions.

These would be:-
assumptions of other people's personal circumstances
using said assumptions to 'undermine' other people's opinion.
"Oh, you would say that, because I expect you have green wallpaper...
paid for by Rupert Murdoch."

and finally, dragging threads off-topic.

I had a look at the bugmenever posts in the New TivoWeb Module : Highlights thread (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=285228&page=8&pp=30).

Do you realise how much you stomped all over someone else's thread?
Ten off-topic posts on one page.

I'm not harbouring a grudge, Pete, because I don't have to;
almost daily, you behave in a manner that angers and exasperates me, so I have no need to hold on to old peeves, as you hand out new ones on a regular basis.

I do think, or hope, that your heart is in the right place, but, man, you need to acquire some manners, or empathy, or a sense of perspective;
some idea of the effect of your posts.

[Tivo_noob]

*back on topic*

Pete where have you got with this, have you sent a message to the guy who sold you it asking whats going on?

[Benedict]

......MHEG encoders and decoders......MPEG!!!!! (Sorry, this has been getting on my nerves throughout this thread, being the pedant that I am!)

MHEG technology is used for digital text services and as such is not used in TiVo.

[Benedict]

No boot polishing required - but now I come to think of it my car is very dirty........... ;)

[AMc]

As recordings from your old Tivo play back with wavy lines and Live TV direct from the errant Tivo shows exactly the same picture I think it would be reasonable to assume that the encoder is OK.
As AUX bypass is clear then (unsurprisingly) the physical connections to the SCART connections are probably OK too.
The decoder may be at fault or it may be a problem with the analogue part of the SCART signal path.

A picture would probably still help ;)

Seems to me the chances of the problem being in the analogue amplification are higher than the digital to analogue decoder partially failing but my experience with this type of electronics is not expert (A/S level electonics 16 years ago probably isn't a qualification in this instance). In any case onboard electronics repairs are unlikely to be economic unless you can see a blown component and know the specification for a replacement.

So you could explore adding a Terbonet, Turbonet, Airnet or RAMless cachecard, sharing recording duties between this and your working Tivo - sounds like some hassle, but if you wanted a project it could work. Certainly with a network card, Tivoweb and 'that which may not be mentioned' you could schedule recordings and watch them elsewhere.

[blindlemon]

Or use Sanderton's 'synch now playing' hack and watch them via your main TiVo :up: :)

[Tivo_noob]

What was the outcome of this Pete?

[cwaring]

Did someone want a PSU? PM me an offer before I put it on Ebay :)

[blindlemon]

Welcome back Pete - it's been quiet without you :)

[blindlemon]

Why would you cast doubt on the HA250JC? You have two of them :)

I've never tried to pretend it isn't cheaper to DIY - and I'm happy to help out anybody who posts a question here. However, for people with less time and/or technical confidence, pre-configured drives seem to be a valued alternative :up:

[TCM2007]

you can never guarantee the security of something like a Notebook PC in these West Country holiday homes.

You casting aspersions on us denizens of the west? :p

[ndunlavey]

Please don't bandy my name about as though I have a vendetta against you, Pete. You do seem to think you have accumulated quite a lot of people who don't like you, though.

[mikerr]

I need to contact about the sale of these faulty goods and the failure to honour a 7 day refund on goods supplied by post which the customer rejects

While we know you haven't caused any damage yourself, you have voided any rights by opening up the case and swapping PSU, snipping cable ties and changing hard drives.

I notice you make no mention of that in your email to him :rolleyes:

Personally if I were the seller I might refund you, but only after receiving the item back, as any sensible seller on ebay will do.

[cwaring]

This has now been lodged as a formal complaint with PayPal despite PayPal's best efforts to make it as hard as possible to lodge a complaint ... I get the strongest possible impression that PayPal have deliberately gone out of their way to make it as hard as possible to complain.
I had no such problems when I had to do it last month. The Transaction ID is right there on the... erm... Transaction record!!

[cwaring]

Hmmm. I'm sure I entered it manually, but I guess not :confused: Anyway, no matter. Yes, I got a refund.
http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/cwaring
You'll soon spot it via the feedback :)

[rickynumber18]

It's good to be wary of eBay purchases.

In the fours years I've been registered, I've bought a duff Sky+ box (had to replace the hard drive), a duff Freeview box (in the bin it went) and most recently my mate bought a TiVo via my account which refuses to store downloaded data (we did post this problem on the Forum). It'll be back on eBay very soon as 'Faulty - Spares or Repair'. If anyone is interested in a box for bits!!

[rickynumber18]

Hi Pete.

My mate and I purchased it via a BIN and all the seller said was...

"If you searched for Tivo and found this then you already know how good they are and what they can do, so I won't waste any more time explaining".

I couldn't be bothered to file claims etc, they neither said that it was working or it wasn't. :confused:

After posting the fault on the forum I thought about buying Hooch! and fixing the problem but the first month subscription has expired and it'll be like throwing good money after bad and all that. I know the box will be very good to someone in the know and who may want spares.

[ColinYounger]

Pete - Which? have recently been slagging off PayPal (mainly from the seller's angle to be fair) and point out something that I wasn't aware of:

Credit card purchases via PayPal are NOT subject to the normal coverage from the consumer credit act (i.e. you share liability with the credit card company).

I'm off to the recycle bin to see if I can find the issue. Expect strange smells of bean cans and empty wine bottles on my return. :)

[ColinYounger]

Ha! It was in the pile of "to go" by the back door. No bean smells from me today! :D

If anyone has Which?, check out P81. To summarise (as copyright law stops me from quoting direct ;) ):

The law is untested as such, but your rights under the CCA do not apply to payments via PayPal using credit cards.

PayPal's buyer protection covers up to £120, but conditions apply (they're not expanded on, so I'd suggest www.paypal.co.uk). The suggestion is that if you request chargeback from PayPal, they will investigate and ask the Seller to 'prove' there isn't a problem in the case.

You can refer PayPal's treatment of your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

[cwaring]

Expect strange smells of bean cans and empty wine bottles...
Nothing new there then :eek: ;) :p

[Tivo_noob]

Ebayer + Paypal = Scammers paradise

:(

[cwaring]

Okay. So why do people use it if it's that bad? I haven't had a problem in my seven years of using it and can only assume that the silent majority of other users haven't either, or surely the system would have died before now? Just because some people have doesn't make it inherently bad :)

I know it does happen but I don't think it happens as often some people think. Or maybe it happens every day to everyone else except me. I'm not sure ;)

[Tivo_noob]

Okay. So why do people use it if it's that bad? I haven't had a problem in my seven years of using it and can only assume that the silent majority of other users haven't either, or surely the system would have died before now? Just because some people have doesn't make it inherently bad :)

I know it does happen but I don't think it happens as often some people think. Or maybe it happens every day to everyone else except me. I'm not sure ;)
I use it myself, in fact i'm pretty sure i have been scammed only last week although it was for a small purchase its the principal of it. And when it does happen to you and you see the way they make it near on impossible for you to get your money back your opinion may change of the EBay/Paypal cahoots they seem to have going for themselves

[TCM2007]

ferndale-bargains get 10 days to come up with a response. If they fail to satisfy PayPal or do not reply I get refunded in full.

They will though. They'll point out the listing didn't say it was working, in fact it said they didn't know if it was working. That will satisfy PayPal (probably rightly IMO) and you'll be back at square one.

Still I suspect you enjoy the journey of complaining as much as the result, given how much of it you do, so this probably is providing great value for money for you!

[PaulWilkinsUK]

You casting aspersions on us denizens of the west? :p
"Grockles tiz like piles. They comes down, they hangs around, they turns red and they'm a pain in the arse" :D

Grockles = People from the town that visit the countryside (for those what don't know)

[frogster]

You'll soon spot it via the feedback :)Ebay is bad, PayPal is worse but still there's no call for language like this:

Kupuj?cy i sprzedaj?cy obopólnie zgodzili si? wycofa? opini? na temat tego przedmiotu.

:eek:

If only I knew what it meant.

[TCM2007]

"buys cy as well sells? cy obopólnie balance si? withdrawal sentiment to the point this article."

According to a translation web page!

[cwaring]

:confused:

[TCM2007]

That "firm" clearly buys in large amounts of stuff and churns it on eBay. Their standard terms say they don't have time to check every item. With the TiVo they specifically re-iterated in the description that its working condition was unknown.

They have 512 positive feedbacks from the last 3 months so they don't appear to be rip-off merchants.

You took a chance on an untested unit and lost. Happens. No-one has tried to rip you off, no one has ripped you off.

Why do people always want someone to blame for everything these days? I'm surprised out take such a Blairite nanny state attitude Pete, I didn't have you down as the compensation culture type. You took a punt, it didn't come off. That doesn't mean someone tried to put one over on you, and it doesn't mean you have a claim on them if they didn't misrepresent the item, which they don't seem to have done. Your claim against them seems to rest on them knowing the noise a TiVo should make when plugged in. Hell, there's nothing in the listing which suggests they even know what a TiVo is, let alone what noise it should make!

You are not the victim of fraud, you just gambled and lost.

[cwaring]

Your claim against them seems to rest on them knowing the noise a TiVo should make when plugged in. Hell, there's nothing in the listing which suggests they even know what a TiVo is, let alone what noise it should make!

I was going to make this point earlier but wasn't sure if I would get shouted down for it. Wish I had now :)

It was going to go like this....

I'm still not clear why you seem to think it is acceptable for this firm to sell defective goods that they could easily have ascertained were defective in advance.
I'm curious as to how anyone could ascertain that something was defective if they had no idea what it was, or how it was supposed to work in the first place :confused:

As usual, I should have gone with my first instinct, which is usually right.

[cwaring]

Okay, but my question was meant 'in general' rather than specifically this case :)

[Pete77]

Okay, but my question was meant 'in general' rather than specifically this case :)

Do I detect the sound of a back being rapidly covered there? ;) :p

[cwaring]

Not at all, smarty-pants :D. Just wasn't clear enough for you, I suppose ;)

[ndunlavey]

I would refer the honourable gentleman to this particular post:-

www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4648194&&#post4648194

Yes - you called me a liar, and I took offence. I am also of the the view that you are a motormouthed tw*t, but that doesn't mean I have a vendetta against you. I largely try to ignore you.

[Pete77]

Yes - you called me a liar, and I took offence. I am also of the the view that you are a motormouthed tw*t, but that doesn't mean I have a vendetta against you. I largely try to ignore you.

Once again you prove your preference for the use of vulgar expletives. I suppose you expect me to make allowances for the part of London in which you live.

[Wonder_lander]

In which case they shouldn't be selling electrical items at all as there are now clear cut health and safety laws forbidding the sale of elecrical items to retail customers that may be in an unsafe or non functioning condition.

Can you clarify the bit in the law about "non functioning condition" for my reference. I couldn't see anything when I deployed my uber google skills! :D

Ta

[healeydave]

That "firm" clearly buys in large amounts of stuff and churns it on eBay. Their standard terms say they don't have time to check every item.

As this has run on and on, I just had to take a look myself. Interestingly the concensus seems to be that they are ignorant to what a Tivo is and can be forgiven in not being able to determine whether it works or not.

However if you look back, they recently sold a Sky+ box and correctly declared it as Faulty!

They have 512 positive feedbacks from the last 3 months so they don't appear to be rip-off merchants.

I don't think they are rip-off merchants, as-in they are seeking to not supply goods and run off etc, but these statistics are nothing to be proud off. This particular ID has all the hallmarks of someone that knows what they are doing with ebay and are not the new user they appear to be!

This account was only setup in December and they have 13 negative feedbacks already! The comments relating to these feedbacks are pretty indicative of a company that knows some stuff is going to be junk but they can live with that.

You can tell a lot from a user account if you look closely. The age of it, the content of their first auctions compared to later ones (e.g. do they look like a novice starting and learning with the latter auctions etc). I wouldn't be surprised if they cycle ID's.

I think they are probably genuine about the source of items, they are literally picking up a load of stuff and dumping it on ebay where-as previously they might have let it go for peanuts through a regular private auction house or even thrown the "iffy" stuff.

I used to know someone that did similar things with IT equipment, he used to clear out offices and just dump everything on ebay (he took the good with the bad). Because of the sheer volume of stock, it didn't matter if he got the occasional negative.

Again there is nothing wrong with this, the only issue I have with this type trading is the ambiguous use of wording I mean whats wrong with a simple "This item is completely un-tested and is not returnable, bid accordingly", I'll tell you what, an item described like this will not make anywhere near as much without the ambiguity :-)

[TCM2007]

The item is not as they described it.


If that's the case then you have them bang to rights and should get your money back, no issue.

However I can't see which bit of the extremely brief description you think was wrong?

If you think saying that they have no reason to think it doesn't work is the same thing as them saying that it works, particularly in the context of an eBay auction description, then you are dafter than I thought.

Do I think it's funny that someone as willing as you to hand out pat advice on any topic gets caught with the most obvious caveat emptor in the book, and then is amusingly outraged by it? Of course I do, it's hysterical. No point in denying it.

[cwaring]

There was no suggestion it was broken.
If I remember correctly, they also said they did not guarantee it was fully working either :)

[Pete77]

If I remember correctly, they also said they did not guarantee it was fully working either :)

Where did they say that?

[TCM2007]

From the ad it looked to all the world like an abandoned Tivo that had been separated from its remote and IR leads and put in to store. Could have been somebody who upgraded to Sky+ on a Monthly Sub etc. There was no suggestion it was broken. I knew I could sort the remote and the IR leads problem and I certainly never reckoned on a blown video output stage.

If it was obvious that it was bound to be broken then clearly I and other bidders would not have bid it up to the same price as a working unsubbed Tivo.

You seem to have been a much less kind or caring person on this matter than Blindlemon or HealeyDave. Your true colours showing though a little here perhaps?

Not obvious it was broken, but not obvious it worked either. You took a gamble. You lost. Now you want your stake back from bookie because he said your horse was favourite to win but it didn't.

[Rob Nespor Bellis]

Stuart,

You are James Murdoch in disguise, it is in your interest for TiVo to fail and Sky+ to succeed :D

Oh and I claim my five pounds :p

Rgds,

R.

[TCM2007]

Actually Rob, I'm the chair of Ofcom and run my own 0870 selling business to raise money for Tony Blair. ;)

[Rob Nespor Bellis]

Tshhh, next you'll be claiming Carl is a spook and in the pay of the Russians :eek:

Rgds,

R.

[ericd121]

Damn, I knew I should have jumped back in a couple of days ago;
now it looks like I'm gloating.

However, this has caught my eye...
You seem to have been a much less kind or caring person on this matter than Blindlemon or HealeyDave. Your true colours showing though a little here perhaps?Speaking of true colours, this post (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5052177&&#post5052177) is quite revealing, I feel.I received this response from ferndale-bargains on 6th April:-Hi, we are an extremely busy business & sell lots of electricals & do not have time to test every item which we state quite clearly in our descriptions. We are sorry that you are not satisfied with your purchase but have described the item accordingly. The item was listed at £4.99 & it could have gone for that. We cannot be held responsible for the price that you decided to bid. Thank you.And have just sent this response:-Your reply is totally unsatisfactory as you in effect admit that if the item had sold for £4.99 you would have made a profit on it and I doubt you paid any more for it than that.I find this amusing because once again, you make assumptions of someone's intentions based on no evidence.

No-one with a grasp of English could say they admitted that the item would have garnered them a profit if it had sold at £4.99.

[Pete77]

Tshhh, next you'll be claiming Carl is a spook and in the pay of the Russians :eek:

You mean he's not? :eek:

Of hand I can't think of any other logical reason for someone with such strong writing and analytical skills to have adopted the cover of a quiet and inoffensive member of the long term unemployed.

[Pete77]

Actually Rob, I'm the chair of Ofcom and run my own 0870 selling business to raise money for Tony Blair. ;)

Nope you are James Murdoch in disguise. That much has long since been evident. ;) :p :D

No one else in the whole forum seems anywhere near as happy as you about subscribing to almost every single possible new money making Sky subscription package going.

[TCM2007]

I think you'll find quite a few have SkyHD!

[mikerr]

If I remember correctly, they also said they did not guarantee it was fully working either :)
Where did they say that?

Full auction description:
Thompson SCENIUM Tivo PVR10Uk
Good used condition.

Working condition is unknown as we do not have a remote with this unit.

hovever it powers up ok and there is no reson to suggest it does'nt work as it came from a house clearance

Sorry no technical questions please, if you need more information on this item please use google search.

IMPORTANT

As we are business sellers we buy our stock in bulk in order to sell it on. we do not have the time to test every function of every electrical appliance we sell. We sell to other traders so they can make a profit also.

Most of our stock comes from house and business clearances etc.

We check they are safe and basic functions etc but we cannot guarantee full perfect working order, please be aware of this before you bid and if you are in any doubt please DO NOT bid!

[cwaring]

I was actually going from what I thought I remember on this thread 'cos I never actually saw the listing in question but so I'm glad I wasn't wrong. I don't think Pete would have let me forget it. Ever! :)

Oh, and as for the other stuff... damn! Rumbled ;)

[TCM2007]

Breach of forum rules to point out you're wrong, eh?

The rule is to prevent people promoting their eBay listings, as this one is closed it hardly does that.

Actually, on checking (as Pete has previous on making up facts to support his arguments), there ain't no such rule:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/rules.html

[PaulWilkinsUK]

Well I must admit I'd not been *that* bothered to go and look at the eBay listing to find out what it said, but since mikerr has taken the trouble to post it, I for one would not have touched that item with a 10' barge pole.

Pete mate, ya f*cked up! Accept it and move on... stop beating yourself up over it :)

The more you thrash around over this and spit the dummy out, the more people will wind you about it.

People love to kick a man when he's down (People like to kick a man,period) :)

[Pete77]

People love to kick a man when he's down (People like to kick a man,period) :)

Especially the kind of men who wear vests for their forum profile pics. ;) :rolleyes:

[Wonder_lander]

Can you clarify the bit in the law about "non functioning condition" for my reference. I couldn't see anything when I deployed my uber google skills! :D

Ta

Pete???

[ColinYounger]

I admit I fell victim to stupid temptation and bidding fever in an Ebay auction
Fearing the worst but still hoping for a Lifetime Sub
we cannot guarantee full perfect working order, please be aware of this before you bid and if you are in any doubt please DO NOT bid!

You took a gamble. You lost. Now you want your stake back from bookie because he said your horse was favourite to win but it didn't.

I have to say that ignoring all the 'Outraged from Macclesfield' posts, I have to agree with TCM. My non-professional opinion is that you're in a hiding to nowhere complaining that you were duped. In fact, you wre specifically warned that it might be a donkey. As you said on your first post, you got greedy. So greedy you even used HammerSnipe.

Move on - nothing to see here.

[ColinYounger]

Especially the kind of men who wear vestsWhat's wierd about that?! I thought all people in Macclesfield wore vests. And flat caps. :p

[TCM2007]

Nah, Macclesfields the posh bit, one of the richest areas in the North. You'll find all the footballers mansions round there.

[blindlemon]

The fact that footballers live somewhere doesn't make it posh :p:D

[TCM2007]

It does in Cheshire.

[PaulWilkinsUK]

Especially the kind of men who wear vests for their forum profile pics. ;) :rolleyes:

*uckin' w*nker ! :D :D

[PaulWilkinsUK]

Nah, Macclesfields the posh bit, one of the richest areas in the North. You'll find all the footballers mansions round there.
Posh / North - in the same sentence ??? Surely not !

[Pete77]

*uckin' w*nker ! :D :D

Clearly the kind of language that vest wearing men best understand. ;) :p

[PaulWilkinsUK]

Clearly the kind of language that vest wearing men best understand. ;) :p
You just don't get it do you Pete. You take the piss out of me, I take the piss out of you, it s simple really.

For what its worth, I'm really pleased you got ripped off :D Me and many others I'm sure.
Lots of guys in this forum are all being very P.C. with regard to your misfortune, but privately they're all laughing their tits off at your stupidity!!

Have a nice day :)

PS. I'm off to buy myself some more vests just to piss you off. :)

[cwaring]

Erm.. guys. Note the smileys on each other's messages?
I don't think any harm was meant on either side. Of course, I could be wrong ;):p:D <---- SMILEYS!!!

[PaulWilkinsUK]

Erm.. guys. Note the smileys on each other's messages?
I don't think any harm was meant on either side. Of course, I could be wrong ;):p:D <---- SMILEYS!!!
Sarcasm maybe ?

[cwaring]

Well yeah, but no ill intent behind it. Which is what sarcasm is, isn't it? :) (No, that wasn't sarcasm ;))

[frogster]

The item description said this:Good used condition.
.... hovever it powers up ok... But the item apparently had a bent and/or badly opened case (not good condition, or normal use) and a drive that goes clunk (not normal powering up sounds of any drive).

As the description is materially incorrect he should get a refund.

The vendor would have done better not to describe the unit at all.

[mikerr]

There is a picture of it with the front power light on - "powers on".

The vendor would have done better not to describe the unit at all. ..then he would get people saying "I expected brand new and boxed" :rolleyes:

[PaulWilkinsUK]

...while pretending that they would never have made such a mistake when in reality they could very easily have done so.

Nah! I don't think so... :p

[mikerr]

to the uninformed a Tivo just looks like a boring silver box with three Scart sockets and two coax sockets. Exactly, and if said boring box gives a green light when powered on, it could be correctly decscribed as "powers on".

That's all they do - plug in, see if they get a power light.
They even say they don't have time to test items further than that.

We'd all be taking a different line if the auction was a "personal" one, that said something like "Here is my tivo, worked great for years, and now I'm moving to sky HD".

[PaulWilkinsUK]

I know that 'the rules' say we can't advertise TiVos for sale here, but surely wouldnt it make sense to buy items from people who know what they're talking about. Why should we all have to use eBay and pay a commission to that organisation when we could keep it 'in the family' so to speak?

I've a TiVo gathering dust here that could benefit from going to a good home, but I'm sure as hell not going to put it on con-bay. :down:

Come on you moderators, set us up a UK for-sale Forum ! (please) then we wouldnt have to put up with Pete77 getting all bent out of shape :D :up:

[Raisltin Majere]

I don't think the moderators can help. You'd have to take your request straight to David, I think

[Wonder_lander]

What proof do you have that the casing was damagedon arrival? You've quite clearly admitted on a public website to have opened up the machine yourself.

I still don't appear to have had a reply to my question about the law with regards to non working condition, post 155 fyi.

Don't get me wrong here I'm not saying that the item description was correct or that Pete or the seller acted wrongly. If I bought an item that was described as good condition and it came damaged I would have plugged it in, noted it didn't work and then returned it. I would argue that by opening it up and trying to get it working you have infact accepted the item in the condition that it arrived.

This was an ebay gamble which didn't come off. Resell it for spares on ebay and move on!

[ColinYounger]

The reason Pete isn't answering the law question is because he made it up but doesn't want to admit he spouted a load of rubbish!

I had empathy to begin with, but all his whining and finger pointing at everyone\everything but his own greed has worn that off. He's acting like a spoilt brat who can't get his own way now. Most normal humans would have slunk off with the tails between their legs vowing to learn from the incident.

There. I feel better now. Thanks for letting me ...er... blow off.

[ColinYounger]

Pete - I don't care anymore. Empathy is now apathy.

[TCM2007]

How was I greedy. I paid the normal market price for a secondhand Tivo without a Lifetime sub, most of which also come with a remote and IR leads unlike this one.

You're right if you paid the normal price for a working TiVo with remote and leads for one which wasn't tested and had neither, that doesn't make you greedy. There's a word for what it does make you, but it might be construed as personal abuse to spell it out...

[cwaring]

I've a TiVo gathering dust here that could benefit from going to a good home, but I'm sure as hell not going to put it on con-bay. :down:
I don't see the problem. Describe it correctly and not at all ambiguously and it should be fine. There have been many Tivos for sale on Ebay in the past with no problems.

[PaulWilkinsUK]

The people who need to learn a lesson from this episode are ferndale-bargains.

They are a thoroughly dishonest and misleading ebay seller, unlike most sellers of goods on Ebay. The fact that they just ignore my message to them also speaks of their cynical and thoroughly contemptuous attitude towards their customers. :down: :mad:

Tell ya what... Instead of bouncing up and down, screaming and shouting at people who really couldnt give a toss. :)

Why don't you 'pop around' to Ferndale Bargains and confront them face-to-face? Seems like you're wound up ready for a good punch up Pete. All these threats about bad feedback and sending eMail doesnt really cut the mustard does it, go on put your money where your mouth is. Or is that not your "style" ?

[cwaring]

I didn't realise he's be on about this for the past month now. No wonder I can't find the auction on Ebay any more :(

[cwaring]

Damn! Of course, the dates on here are in US format, aren't they :rolleyes: I feel suitable stupid :o:p

[PaulWilkinsUK]

However I rather get the feeling that in a face to face confrontation you Paul Wilkins rather tend to feel that you might be able to scare the other guy into submission.

Indeed... You can't beat intimidation :D :D :D

[BrianHughes]

...
The only likely solution is the PayPal, MBNA Visa complaint route or a claim in the small claims court. However the matter in dispute here of £78 is more or less the same as the fee for filing a small claim in the County Court.
...


You haven't got a case for claiming from the credit card company for 2 reasons. They don't accept liability when it's a payment to paypal (as already stated above) and secondly the purchase must be for more than £100 in any case.

I, personally, would put it down to experience & try to flog it on Ebay as deceased, dead, an ex-Tivo, hoping somebody will take it off your hand for bits for £20 or so.

However if you must pursue it, I would say Paypal is your best bet.

[blindlemon]

If, with a new drive, it does everything except play back via the internal decoder, then you could add a network card and use it as a dumb recording device, or even as a "test" TiVo to try out hacks and so forth before committing them to your main TiVo.

I personally wouldn't have bid on it as the seller has too many negative feedbacks for my liking, and the wording of the listing was pretty much saying "if it doesn't work, hard luck", regardless of the statement about it powering up OK. However, if you make a complaint via PayPal then your best bet would probably be to major on the bent case not being "good used condition".

[AWT]

In the nature of Ebay I don't have an address for them and only a phone number that is in their Ebay entry.
You can get their eBay-registered address and contact number from the Advanced Search page under 'Find contact information'. You will need to be logged in and you will also need to enter the item number - under eBay's rules you are entitled to this information because you have transacted with the other member.

At the same time that eBay email that information to you, an email is also sent to the other party informing them of your actions.

[cwaring]

You can get their eBay-registered address and contact number from the Advanced Search page under 'Find contact information'.
I suggested that a couple of days ago, then deleted the post when I tried it (on myself) and it didn't work. I did not get my own registered address in the returned info. Suppose it's still worth a try though :)

[mikerr]

Sorry pete, but no sensible seller is going to refund you without seeing it,
and also let you keep it.

There are too many dodgy buyers that try that stunt in order to get free goods.

www.parcel2go.com will send it for around £10

Use the code "greasy" at the checkout to get £1 or 10% off too :)

[blindlemon]

I have suggested to the seller that if he refunds me £48 of the £63 I originally paid him (plus £15 carriage of course) and I keep the Tivo I could settle for that as at least I have somethingNobody - not even me! - would agree to that :eek:

You are asking the seller to give you a 76% discount on the basis that the item is faulty after you have bid and paid £63 for an item at an auction with a starting price of £4.99 where the description explicitly stated that the item might not be in 100% working order.

Add to that your threat to leave negative feedback if you don't get this retrospective discount, and if you can possibly look at it from the other side, you will see that you must look like a typical eBay scammer who tries to use feedback blackmail to get goods for nothing or at a reduced price after receiving them. Obviously you feel vindicated in your claim as the TiVo is more broken than you had hoped, but even if your seller was 100% genuine, he would be pretty suspicious of you right now.

Honestly, unless you can get PayPal to back you up fully, I would think the best you could hope for - even from a reputable seller - would be a refund (possibly less some kind of restocking fee) of the purchase price, excluding postage, after you have returned the item at your own expense.

But that means dodgy sellers can sell dodgy goods without it ever costing them a penny. The buyer picks up all the aggravation.Yes, which is why you should try to avoid 'dodgy' sellers like the plague :down:

[AMc]

Just looked that auction up - there's no indication in the pictures that the case is damaged, but there's no real way of knowing it's exactly the same unit unless they hand over the high resolution picture with the serial number. As you've freely admitted on the public internet that you've opened it since it arrived I can't see you'll be able to prove that damage was presale. I can't see you winning this one Pete77.

If you post some photos of the video output someone may be able to help you get it working properly.

[frogster]

You are asking the seller to give you a 76% discount on the basis that the item is faulty after you have bid and paid £63 for an item at an auction with a starting price of £4.99 where the description explicitly stated that the item might not be in 100% working order. It also explicitly said that it was in good used condition (ie not with a bent case) and that it powered up normally (ie the drive didn't go clank).

[frogster]

Paypal have now suggested that if I pay to return the unit to the seller the seller may refund me ...So much for the much-vaunted and totally worthless PayPay purchaser protection.

[frogster]

You haven't got a case for claiming from the credit card company for 2 reasons. They don't accept liability when it's a payment to paypal (as already stated above) and secondly the purchase must be for more than £100 in any case.This all depends on your card issuer. My issuing bank will certainly refund me for purchases of less than £100, and Visa enforce no minimum amount either (Mastercard do).

Also your bank can perform a chargeback to PayPal, if it wants to. It all depends on how much your bank likes you.

[Wonder_lander]

I must add that when i moved up from Brighton to Staffordshire my hard drive died. I assume that the removal firm roughly handled the tivo box which caused the drive to die.

It is completely possible that the hard disk was broken by the courier.

[cwaring]

So much for the much-vaunted and totally worthless PayPay purchaser protection.
I'm sure it works when used correctly ;):p:D

[TCM2007]

The Consumer Credit Act only applies to amounts over £100. Nothing stopping a CC issue refunding smaller amounts of course, but you have no claim against them if they say no.

[Gavin]

This all depends on your card issuer. My issuing bank will certainly refund me for purchases of less than £100, and Visa enforce no minimum amount either (Mastercard do).

Also your bank can perform a chargeback to PayPal, if it wants to. It all depends on how much your bank likes you.

It's a bit more than that at the moment. Due to the cuts in fee's the CC co's were forced to make they are putting more restrictions in on card use. so they can get fee's other ways. Some Cardco's consider online payments to be a cash advance, given your not buying anything directly, jsut putting it into a service to use later (same as gift vouhers).

Cash advances are not covered by the CCA, and you could also get charged fee's.

It was on Working Lunch monday I think, but see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/working_lunch/6503939.stm

[mikerr]

Hmm, so many pete posts edited and deleted in this thread - did the seller find this thread or something?

[6022tivo]

I have just been reading this and have noticed loads of quotes from pete but all his posts look deleted???. Has he been removed/deleted from the forums along with his recent posts??

[Rob Nespor Bellis]

Oh now you are just teasing :D

[iankb]

He's just posted on another thread.

As I understand it, only a moderator or the original poster can delete posts, and a moderator would normally leave an explanation. In my opinion, a forum user who deletes a substantial number of posts to make the rest of the thread look stupid is looking to get banned.

[SilkMan]

It looks to me like he's covering his tracks - admitting to having opened the case could jeopardise his case against the original seller. I doubt very much that ferndale-something or other would have found this thread though, so it may be a bit extreme. There's probably enough in the quoted replies to scupper Peter's chances anyway. I suspect there's a bit of "Opened it? What, me , guvnor? No sir!" going on.

[iankb]

When replying to posts, the user should always add a relevant quote from the original. That protects that user if the original poster decides to edit his post, since the quote can't be edited by the original poster. That doesn't stop the original poster from using a PM to request that the reply is edited for valid reasons.

[Tivo_noob]

Cmon pete77, spill the beans!

[mikerr]

Interesting link (http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=346835) :rolleyes:

[Tivo_noob]

Interesting link (http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=346835) :rolleyes:
Ha ha, there is no escaping the interweb :p

[Andy Leitch]

Interesting link (http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=346835) :rolleyes:

Hahaha......pwned!!!!1

[PaulWilkinsUK]

Interesting link (http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=346835) :rolleyes:
Its OK lads, I just saved it all for posterity !

[deshepherd]

>>>
It's a bit more than that at the moment. Due to the cuts in fee's the CC co's were forced to make they are putting more restrictions in on card use. so they can get fee's other ways. Some Cardco's consider online payments to be a cash advance, given your not buying anything directly, jsut putting it into a service to use later (same as gift vouhers).
>>>

Along the same lines, if you read the terms and conditions of Google Checkout then they explicitly say that your CC is used to buy "electronic money" and then that "electronic money" is used as a payment to the seller. I'm waiting to see what happens when someone complains about a defective purchase to the CC supplier and only get told "well the £200 of electronic money you bought seemed to worked exactly as specified so its not our problem"

[TCM2007]

Pete's gone quiet. Quick, let's make this a "No Discussions" topic, then he won't be able to resist.

[ericd121]

Due to the cuts in fee's the CC co's were forced to make they are putting more restrictions in on card use. so they can get fee's other ways. Some Cardco's consider online payments to be a cash advance, given your not buying anything directly, jsut putting it into a service to use later (same as gift vouhers).

Cash advances are not covered by the CCA, and you could also get charged fee's.I had an offer of a discount subscription to Littlewoods Pools, which I paid with my Tesco Visa.

They charged me a £2.50 fee, plus £0.66 interest on that fee!

When I queried it, I was told they'd changed their rules about a week earlier and that gambling transactions are now charged as cash.

Apparently, I was notified, though I suspect it was one of those tightly packed blocks of print that are almost designed not to be read.

(Help! I'm sounding like Pete! :eek: )

[PaulWilkinsUK]

I had an offer of a discount subscription to Littlewoods Pools, which I paid with my Tesco Visa.

They charged me a £2.50 fee, plus £0.66 interest on that fee!

When I queried it, I was told they'd changed their rules about a week earlier and that gambling transactions are now charged as cash.

Yeah, interesting one this. I can see how banks could say that 'topping' up PayPal or even mobile phone accounts using a credit card could be interpreted as a cash transaction..... beware...

[Pete77]

I had an offer of a discount subscription to Littlewoods Pools, which I paid with my Tesco Visa.

They charged me a £2.50 fee, plus £0.66 interest on that fee!

When I queried it, I was told they'd changed their rules about a week earlier and that gambling transactions are now charged as cash.

Apparently, I was notified, though I suspect it was one of those tightly packed blocks of print that are almost designed not to be read.

MBNA are even worse. Last year I put a £5 bet on a race at Ascot racecourse using a new automated Tote betting machine that only took credit or debit cards. There was no indication of a fee being charged and indeed a statement by the machine that they did not make any charges for using credit cards to bet.

When I got the statement from MBNA there was a £3 gambling fee listed. I called MBNA who said it was in their terms and conditions. I said they knew full well nobody read all the terms and conditions and to my mind this was an example of an "unfair contract term" since although gambling transactions may have a higher risk a percentage fee of the total sum gambled and not a flat fee would be the way to handle it. More recently I saw changed terms and conditions from NatWest imposing some kind of gambling fee for using their credit card.

Before I placed an online bet on the Grand National this year via www.quidco.co.uk with two gambling sites (the subsequent cash back from Quidco should repay all of my bets staked even though I only got the 2nd and 4th placed horses but not the winner in the race) I checked with customer friendly Nationwide. They assured me they do not levy any such extra fees for using their credit card for online betting. I expected this was likely as they also do not charge a 2.75% foreign exchange rate levy for overseas credit card use unlike other card issuers.

So as ever its caveat emptor I'm afraid. The UK's big banks are utterly shameless in inventing new ways to fleece their customers the moment the first way has been closed down.

The moral of the story - get a Nationwide credit card.

[iankb]

I had an offer of a discount subscription to Littlewoods Pools, which I paid with my Tesco Visa.

They charged me a £2.50 fee, plus £0.66 interest on that fee!I had a similar problem when playing the Monday Lottery, but my cash advance fees with MBNA were even higher.

Later, I read the small print that was hidden away in the terms and conditions on the lottery site, and it did warn me that some banks might do that. However, there was no warning when requesting payments details, and I suspect that was one reason why the Monday Lottery failed. Certainly, I would never have used it again.

[Pete77]

Yeah, interesting one this. I can see how banks could say that 'topping' up PayPal or even mobile phone accounts using a credit card could be interpreted as a cash transaction..... beware...

Well ultimately it comes down to what percentage these retailers are giving the credit card companies. If they are only giving them 0.2% rather than the usual 2% because they don't have the margin for 2% on these kind of transactions then it is underandable the card companies might want to levy some extra fee.

However what is not fair is flat rate fee of say £3 on spending only £5 or £10. That is just a ripoff. An extra charge by your card operator of a straight 1% or 2% for using the card for such a payment might be fair due to the free credit period element. I can think of no reason for a debit card operator to feel justified in levying a gambling fee though and in any case debit card fees are usually much lower to the firm taking the payment from you because there is no free credit period to be paid for and no possibility of chargebacks etc, etc.

[Pete77]

Later, I read the small print that was hidden away in the terms and conditions on the lottery site, and it did warn me that some banks might do that. However, there was no warning when requesting payments details, and I suspect that was one reason why the Monday Lottery failed. Certainly, I would never have used it again.

Ian,

As a fellow MBNA card holder who used it as indicated a couple of posts above I can assure you the gambling fee is being levied by MBNA and not by the firm you are paying. The gambling machines at Ascot racecourse are most specific that their bank does not levy any fee for using cards but that did not start MBNA my card issuer imposing their gambling fee.

Moral of the story - check the terms and conditions with your card issuer before using it for any gambling transaction. I haven't found MBNA charging anything extra for using their card to pay PayPal though, although since as at the time they were paying 1% cashback on using it I can see why they might have felt like doing so for a PayPal transaction. I wonder if things like PayPal are another reason why MBNA have recently ceased the 1% cashback on use of the Conran card?

I do think the law needs to be changed about the way that changes of terms and conditions are notified to consumers and in particular their needs to be a requirement about both the size of print used and for a plain English description of the terms and conditions which are being changed.

[iankb]

As a fellow MBNA card holder who used it as indicated a couple of posts above I can assure you the gambling fee is being levied by MBNA and not by the firm you are paying.I didn't say that it wasn't MBNA who raised the charge. I don't think that they called it a gambling fee at the time, but just treated the transaction as a cash advance.

However, I think that it is up to the retailer to warn you if credit card companies may treat the transaction as a cash advance, if they offer credit cards as a method of payment. The customer cannot be expected to know what terms the retailer has with the creditcard companies and, therefore, how the transaction will be handled by them.

[Pete77]

However, I think that it is up to the retailer to warn you if credit card companies may treat the transaction as a cash advance, if they offer credit cards as a method of payment. The customer cannot be expected to know what terms the retailer has with the creditcard companies and, therefore, how the transaction will be handled by them.

Having set up online gambling accounts with two organisations for this year's Grand National I can assure you they do not warn you of these fees and you the buyer has to know that MBNA will charge you the fees while Nationwide will not.

[6022tivo]

I am with Morgan Stanley and have never been charged for many online account transfers to gambling sites.

[Pete77]

I am with Morgan Stanley and have never been charged for many online account transfers to gambling sites.

Some do and some don't at present.

The general trend is for the introduction of these fees but I am sure that Nationwide will resist in line with their general policy against ripoff credit card fees.

[iankb]

Having set up online gambling accounts with two organisations for this year's Grand National I can assure you they do not warn you of these fees and you the buyer has to know that MBNA will charge you the fees while Nationwide will not.But that was my point. :rolleyes:

I wasn't saying that they did warn you. I was saying that they should warn you. I don't expect them to identify fees by creditcard company, but simply to warn you that some companies may charge you. In the case of the Monday Lottery, I could have chosen to check with MBNA first, or have used a Debit Card instead.

To have been charged an unexpected surcharge of several hundred percent was totally unacceptable.

[Pete77]

Unfortunately leving hidden extortionate fees is the way of modern financial services businesses in the absence of a tough enough regulator to stop them or levy big fines for trying on this kind of thing.

[Tivo_noob]

Unfortunately leving hidden extortionate fees is the way of modern financial services businesses in the absence of a tough enough regulator to stop them or levy big fines for trying on this kind of thing.
Blah blah blah....................what i/we want to know is how did you got on with the Tivo :D

[6022tivo]

Blah blah blah....................what i/we want to know is how did you got on with the Tivo :D


lol - I hope this is not becoming a anti-pete thread

[Tivo_noob]

lol - I hope this is not becoming a anti-pete thread
No not at all, if you look back through the posts i was sticking up for him, i would just like to know how the matter ended :D

[ColinYounger]

This might turn into one of those US-style monster threads while we all speculate. So - might as well make myself comfortable. :)

My theory - he got a cease and desist order from the company for posting libelous comments about them.

[Tivo_noob]

Ok, my theory:

He went round all guns blazing and had the living crap beaten out of him and the Tivo wedged firmly where the sun don't shine. He then came on here, deleted all his posts, and denies this thread even exists :)

[PaulWilkinsUK]

Ok, my theory:

He went round all guns blazing and had the living crap beaten out of him and the Tivo wedged firmly where the sun don't shine. He then came on here, deleted all his posts, and denies this thread even exists :)
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha (can't stop) Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

[ericd121]

It seems that some of you have nothing better to do than trawl back through several pages worth of historic forum posts regularly.This made me laugh out loud! :p

Because you use your time on this board so well, Pete. :rolleyes:
Not even I do that unless I am visiting a thread for the first time well into its gestation.I don't believe you.

It sounds just like the sort of thing you'd do.

I am, of course, basing this on no knowledge of you whatsoever, just assumption, supposition and general imagination. ;)

[britcub]

It is not appropriate for me to make any further comment at this time

It's never stopped you before...

[BrianHughes]

I bet Pete wishes that idiots like me would stop posting in this thread so it would just die. :D

[cwaring]

Perhaps it should be made a 'Sticky' ;):p

[TCM2007]

Maybe he'll realise how annoying it is when people keep posting discussion in a thread when you wish they wouldn't...

[britcub]

Surely no-one would dream of doing that... :D

[6022tivo]

Because if they did, it would never go away.

[Tivo_noob]

But there's always the search option if it ever does fall off the bottom of the page ;)

[TCM2007]

Not going to happen.

[PaulWilkinsUK]

Not as long as we keep asking...

"Got yer money back yet Pete???"

[Rob Nespor Bellis]

:D

Nah, I reckon he's lost the shirt off his back.......

Rgds,

R.

[6022tivo]

I wonder if that will leave him with a vest??. I don't think he likes vests?

[PaulWilkinsUK]

I wonder if that will leave him with a vest??. I don't think he likes vests?
Perhaps I should send one... a consolation prize perhaps...

[ColinYounger]

Make sure it's got a smudge on it.

[ColinYounger]

This has now been lodged as a formal complaint with PayPalThat was on the 12th April or thereabouts.

14 days have passed since then.

Pete, your public demands a comment.

[Tivo_noob]

That was on the 12th April or thereabouts.

14 days have passed since then.

Pete, your public demands a comment.
On the 4th day of March
Pete said to me

One bent TiVo...................

[rickynumber18]

Hi guys. I don't know if any of you fancy a project but I've listed the faulty TiVo I referred to in posts 75 and 76 on eBay. I'm sure it'll be a steal and an easy fix for of you out there.

I know I'm not allowed to post an entire auction on here but hopefully it's okay to say auction no. 230124910404. Sorry in advance if it isn't!! :o

The guy I gave the refund to is my mate. He bought it off me when I got lumbered with two TiVos and I felt bad for flogging him a "dead horse" but I've put the auction in to more formal "eBay speak". :cool:

[blindlemon]

I would advise changing your returns policy on the eBay listing to "No returns - sold as faulty for spares or repair only" - you don't want to get somebody buying it in the hope that it might have a lifetime sub then hassling you for a 76% refund because it doesn't work properly....

And I sincerely hope it hasn't got a 'bent' case or a 'clanky' drive ;):D

[rickynumber18]

No sir. In quite good nick as it goes. Just a shame that it won't work as it should!

Thanks for the tip, I'm going to do that right now... :)

[Rob Nespor Bellis]

More importantly who's going to use the e-bay "I thought you may be interested in this" function to send a copy to pete77 :D

Rgds,

R.

[rickynumber18]

I'm sure he'd make a good job of fixing it. :) I reckon it's a case of it having the wrong version of software version "a" versus no "a" - the software shows "a". I bet the mothership is doing something. :confused:

[cwaring]

I did post that, yes, but deleted it when I saw that you had listed it as a "Buy It Now!" and not a standard auction, so that comment no-longer applied :)

[PaulWilkinsUK]

I'm sure he'd make a good job of fixing it. :) I reckon it's a case of it having the wrong version of software version "a" versus no "a" - the software shows "a". I bet the mothership is doing something. :confused:
If you think its a 'software' problem would this not be fixed by a Hooch CD from TiVoHeaven ??

[rickynumber18]

I think it would Paul, but the box cost me £80+postage back in January. To buy Hooch! would be £20 and a months subscription to just play around another £10. I feel like I'd be throwing good money after bad, especially if it turns out that it's another problem entirely.

A potential buyer had me run some tests and I can confirm that it does received TV, pause and record via 'Manual Recording', just fine. Weird.

[PaulWilkinsUK]

I think it would Paul, but the box cost me £80+postage back in January. To buy Hooch! would be £20 and a months subscription to just play around another £10. I feel like I'd be throwing good money after bad, especially if it turns out that it's another problem entirely.

A potential buyer had me run some tests and I can confirm that it does received TV, pause and record via 'Manual Recording', just fine. Weird.
Fair enough... point taken :)

[rickynumber18]

Hi Paul. I sold it last night for £45 to some nice guy who already owns two and wanted it for bench testing. Do we know him, mikelonguk? Anyway, I'm very happy with that.

[PaulWilkinsUK]

Hi Paul. I sold it last night for £45 to some nice guy who already owns two and wanted it for bench testing. Do we know him, mikelonguk? Anyway, I'm very happy with that.
Cool ! Everybody's happy !!

[daveh]

Cool ! Everybody's happy !!Except Pete77, of course.

[TCM2007]

He might be, he's not saying.

[britcub]

Which is very unlike him...

[BrianHughes]

Shhhhh! You could hear a pin drop in here. :D :D :D

[Tivo_noob]

I do wish people would stop posting in this thread, i mean, pete just can't get a word in edgeways.................

[6022tivo]

Talking about TiVo, on a well known auction site have a search for TIVO and look at the wellington boots up for sale. I wonder if this is a trademark violation?

[Tivo_noob]

Talking about TiVo, on a well known auction site have a search for TIVO and look at the wellington boots up for sale. I wonder if this is a trademark violation?
I think your just trying to put the wellington boot in on Pete's misfortune

[ndunlavey]

Mine boots fine, with no green screen.

[SilkMan]

What was that? Did somebody say something?

[PaulWilkinsUK]

We want Pete, We want Pete!!!!!!!

[ColinYounger]

He's been causing trouble in the Hackman threads recently.

Our little baby has flown the nest!!

[britcub]

He's been causing trouble in the Hackman threads recently.

Our little baby has flown the nest!!

Am I alone in thinking after all this time that the result must have been paypal telling him where to go??

[Nero2]

Am I alone in that thinking that Pete baiting is getting a bit boring?

Let it drop?

[PaulWilkinsUK]

Am I alone in that thinking that Pete baiting is getting a bit boring?

Let it drop?
Hmmm I'm also begining to think that the hornets have left the nest. No point in wiggling the stick anymore.

[Andy Leitch]

He's been causing trouble in the Hackman threads recently.

Our little baby has flown the nest!!

He causes trouble wherever he posts.

[Rob Nespor Bellis]

Am I alone in that thinking that Pete baiting is getting a bit boring?

Let it drop?

Yes and no in that order :D

Keep the thread alive!

Rgds,

R.

[britcub]

Am I alone in that thinking that Pete baiting is getting a bit boring?

Let it drop?

I'm not Pete-baiting, I'd actually quite like to know the outcome one way or another. In fact, I have defended Pete on several occasions. Keep your assumptions to yourself.

[Nero2]

Keep your assumptions to yourself.

Anything you say, sir.

[Tivo_noob]

Anything you say, sir.
Hello Pete

:D

[blindlemon]

Aw, this is so funny - first Pete accuses various people of being other people in disguse; now you're accusing a member first registered in August 2005 of being Pete - who first registered in August 2006 :confused::D

I guess as I now appear to be defending him, you'll accuse me of being Pete too next :p

[verses]

"I'm Pete and so's my wife"

[mikerr]

I am spartacus ;)

[cwaring]

No, I'm... oh never mind :p

[Tivo_noob]

It's quite easy to spot the real Pete

He has a fondness of vests if i remember correctly :D

[RichardJH]

No the mistake was made by the people who tried to sell a blatantly defective Tivo to me on the basis that there was no reason to think that it was not working.

They will come to realise their mistake during the course of the current PayPal investigation.
Posted in another thread by You now Who :eek:

We are still waiting and would hate to see this thread fall off the bottom of the page :D :D

[PaulWilkinsUK]

It's quite easy to spot the real Pete

He has a fondness of vests if i remember correctly :D
"I'm too sexy for my vests, too sexy for my vests, so sexy it hurts...."

[britcub]

[deleted]

Oh look, a 'good' reason for deleting one's posts... :p

[PaulWilkinsUK]

[deleted]

Oh look, a 'good' reason for deleting one's posts... :p

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

[blindlemon]

From this thread (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5430230&&#post5430230):-I have a Tivo here a house clearer tried to sell me as working that has nothing but waivy lines on the SCART output as well as a broken hard drive (lines still waivy when I put the original drives from my good Tivo in it though). Fortunately PayPal persuaded him to refund me and although he did mutter about getting me to send the Tivo back (which was going to cost me at least 15 quid for something that didnt work and couldn't be fixed) he hasn't bothered chasing and I still have my refund.Finally! :D

[Pete77]

Now where's the unsubscribe button from this thread. ;)