Is this legal? (Metrocast Subscribers)

[Rocko62580]

So I just bought a new S3, and called Metrocast Cablevision to install my two cablecards. I only subscribe to basic lifeline, channels 2-26. I also get HD through my QAM tuner.

So after speaking to two levels of help (customer service & Engineering) they are telling me that I need to subscribe to a basic digital package, plus regular expanded cable, so I can receive the HD channels via the cablecard.

Then they tell me that a cablecard is not needed to get channel mapping info for season passes etc. I told the guy he was wrong, but he insisted he is right. What are my options at this point. All I want is basic HD channels ABC, NBC, etc. What are my options?

[cramer]

For the analog channels (2-26), you don't need a cable card at all. The only reason you'd need a CC is to map the unencrypted digtal channels. However, the S3 can find and show those just fine without the card. The draw back is no guide data for those channels... unless you can ask Tivo, Inc. into adding them to the basic cable lineup, but that's rarely been successful. (They don't want to do it because the cable company can move channels around at will.)

[Rocko62580]

For the analog channels (2-26), you don't need a cable card at all. The only reason you'd need a CC is to map the unencrypted digtal channels. However, the S3 can find and show those just fine without the card. The draw back is no guide data for those channels... unless you can ask Tivo, Inc. into adding them to the basic cable lineup, but that's rarely been successful. (They don't want to do it because the cable company can move channels around at will.)


Ok, but why am I being forced to buy digital cable when the only channels I want are HD through the clear channels?

[mrmike]

Ok, but why am I being forced to buy digital cable when the only channels I want are HD through the clear channels?

That's a very good question. They'll probably answer that you're not being forced to do so, you're choosing to do so in order to get CableCards (which you need to get programming info so you can record the channels you already have access to).

[davecramer74]

Ok, but why am I being forced to buy digital cable when the only channels I want are HD through the clear channels?

because they may be paying for those HD channels. Time warner does the same thing...

http://www.tvpredictions.com/twhd032907.htm

[hornblowercat]

You could just get basic cable and also hook up OTA. Any analog stations could be recorded from your cable without cable cards and you can receive your local HD stations over the air, with data provided by TiVo. Many people avoid the cable cards this way.

That is if you have decent reception. The S3 is noted for having an exceptionally good over the air tuner.

[jtown]

First, the guy is right about not being able to get channel mapping info for the HD channels without a cablecard. The digital cannels come in on 12.1, 13.6, etc. and are remapped to 712, 713, etc. to match the published lineup. Tivo claims they're working on giving us the ability to map channels without cablecards but it's been over 6 months now and no sign of it happening. However, you can tune the channels and create manual recordings. (Assuming digital service isn't filtered out because of your lifeline service.) You can also connect an antenna to the antenna input and tune any digital channels you receive over the air (OTA). You'll have to redo the guided setup and indicate that you're using both cable and antenna but, once you do, you should receive guide data for those OTA channels.

I can think of a couple reasons why they'd tell you full service is necessary. The least tin-foil-hat explanation is that there is a filter on the line coming to your house which restricts your service to analog channels below a certain point. That's how they usually block upper channels above (in your case) channel 26. This filter could interfere with digital service.

Or they have no filter on your line and they don't want you to figure it out. Or they do have a filter and it doesn't block digital service. When I plugged in my S3, I could tune the digital simulcasts for all of the 2-99 channels. They were totally unencrypted. I needed no cablecards or special service to view them. So, if their expanded basic linup is being simulcast in unencrypted digital (very likely), you'd be able to view those channels without paying for them. (Yes, that would be stealing even if they do "leave the door open".) Still without the ability to remap those digital channels, it's not of much use to a Tivo user. However, if Tivo ever should get around to giving us that ability...

To see which digital channels you can receive without cablecards, do a channel scan. If you get a couple hundred hits and show a whole bunch of new channels you never got before, then my third paragraph applies. If you get no (or very few) additional channels, the second paragraph applies. Either way, you won't be able to "tivo" those channels because they aren't mapped to the channels published in the guide info. You'll either have to wait for Tivo to give us remapping or get yourself an antenna and see if you can pick up the HD channels OTA.

[mattack]

First, the guy is right about not being able to get channel mapping info for the HD channels without a cablecard.

That's absolutely true for the vast majority of us.. But there's *one* guy who posts in some of these S3 threads who says he gets all of the guide data with no cable cards.

In the almost infinitesimally small chance that the originator of the thread lives in the same area as that other poster here, it *could* be true... but admittedly is very very unlikely.

To the original questioner -- I suggest PLUGGING IN the cable and doing a scan on your S3. I have done that, and once in a while do manual recordings on the digital channels. (I was originally thinking about getting cablecards, but the HD recordings are SO much more gigantic, that I think I'll live with analog for now.. or until the external hard drive port is enabled.)

[cableguy763]

That's absolutely true for the vast majority of us.. But there's *one* guy who posts in some of these S3 threads who says he gets all of the guide data with no cable cards.

In the almost infinitesimally small chance that the originator of the thread lives in the same area as that other poster here, it *could* be true... but admittedly is very very unlikely.

To the original questioner -- I suggest PLUGGING IN the cable and doing a scan on your S3. I have done that, and once in a while do manual recordings on the digital channels. (I was originally thinking about getting cablecards, but the HD recordings are SO much more gigantic, that I think I'll live with analog for now.. or until the external hard drive port is enabled.)
In Austin we pass all of the OTA guide data. Our unencrypted channels show up where they are supposed to in the guide. We are not stupid enough to let people with QAM tuners tune our digital channels without paying for them :) .Don't let all of these naysayers convince you otherwise until you have tried for yourself. I cross my fingers for you since most cable co's for some reason don't pass the psip data. :cool:

[Darthnice]

As a cable customer in Austin, I can confirm cableguy763's claim.

For a while I was running with the cable cards pulled out due to the endless reboot problem, and could still record regular season passes for the unencrypted digital channels. (now, however, I have the CCs back in)

[DTG]

Ok, but why am I being forced to buy digital cable when the only channels I want are HD through the clear channels?

I had the same problem with Comcrap when I installed my first S3, right at the beginning. The CSR was adamant that I had to have "digital" and "High Def" to have cable cards. So after 5 minutes trying to get it done, I asked for the name and phone number of their legal advisor who specialized in "Cable Cards". Told me they would have to call me back.

Got the name and phone number within 24 hours, and called the woman. Told her my problem, and mentioned the FCC and the 'Must Carry" rule. Had the cards installed about 2 days later, and no more problems.

The important thing here as I understand it is that if the cable company carries a HD equivalent of an analog over the air channel, it must be made available as part of their "basic" package.

If you ask for a list of channels in their basic package it should include all the over the air HD channels.

Good luck.

[QZ1]

They must provide the customer with CableCards upon request without pre-requisites, AFAIK.

[mattack]

As a cable customer in Austin, I can confirm cableguy763's claim.

For a while I was running with the cable cards pulled out due to the endless reboot problem, and could still record regular season passes for the unencrypted digital channels. (now, however, I have the CCs back in)

Your situation is different. If you "pulled" the cable cards, the Tivo apparently still 'knew' the mapping. Others have said that for example you can still record two things with ONE cablecard if you originally set it up with TWO cablecards and pulled one out. Generally people know that "one cable card == single tuner unit".

If you had set it up completely WITHOUT cablecards in the first place, and were still able to record the QAM channels with full guide data, then you'd be in a set of two apparently documented cases rather than one, of people being able to get full use of QAM channels with no cablecards.

[cableguy763]

Your situation is different. If you "pulled" the cable cards, the Tivo apparently still 'knew' the mapping. Others have said that for example you can still record two things with ONE cablecard if you originally set it up with TWO cablecards and pulled one out. Generally people know that "one cable card == single tuner unit".

If you had set it up completely WITHOUT cablecards in the first place, and were still able to record the QAM channels with full guide data, then you'd be in a set of two apparently documented cases rather than one, of people being able to get full use of QAM channels with no cablecards.
You absolutely do not need cablecards to gut full use of QAM channels with guide data in Austin. Nor do you have to set it up with cablecards first to get it to work. I don't understand why other cable co's don't broadcast like we do, but this has been discussed ad nauseum in other threads :(