Mac and Unbox: Not now, according to Amazon

[Lyrical1]

For those who are hoping there may be a way – like myself – here's a quote from an email I received today from Amazon in response to my question about transferring Unbox downloads to the Mac:

Thank you for writing to us about transfering[sic] your Unbox videos to a Mac with TiVo. Unfortunately, at this time, Videos on your TiVo are not transferable. In order to transfer your video you only need to install the Unbox player on a compatible PC.

Please note that Apple Computer Inc. has exclusive rights to the hardware and software that would make this possible for Amazon.com to provide Unbox downloads for these devices. Because of these restrictions, we are unable to make our Unbox downloads compatible with these products.

I apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you.

As of today at least, that's the story. Perhaps with Apple's iTunes store providing some similar products, they may figure it's not in their best interest – or the companies simply couldn't cut a deal that kept everyone happy (TiVo, Amazon, Apple, the studios…)

[wtb]

I thought there was another application that works with Front Row that mentioned they would work with Amazon (I think). It was beta software. I can't think of the name at the moment. You might try a search and see if anyone's talking about it.

[ZeoTiVo]

Please note that Apple Computer Inc. has exclusive rights to the hardware and software that would make this possible for Amazon.com to provide Unbox downloads for these devices. Because of these restrictions, we are unable to make our Unbox downloads compatible with these products.



hmm, Amazon is saying what TiVo never would as it worked on ToGo for Mac.
It was always my speculation that being able to do sufficient DRM on Mac was frought with license issues. TiVo finally went with a third party, maybe Amazon will as well.

[Dennis Wilkinson]

While I don't know what Unbox uses for DRM (haven't even looked at the PC player), or if that DRM is readily portable to Mac OS X, this statement:

Please note that Apple Computer Inc. has exclusive rights to the hardware and software that would make this possible for Amazon.com to provide Unbox downloads for these devices. Because of these restrictions, we are unable to make our Unbox downloads compatible with these products.

sounds like a load of malarkey to me, at least as far as Macs themselves are concerned (AppleTV and iPods are a different matter.) Apple doesn't license FairPlay, but that doesn't prevent others from implementing their own DRM scheme's decoding on the platform. After all, that's exactly what TiVo/Roxio had to do. In other words, TiVo never said this, because it wasn't true.

edit: Unless Apple has somehow negotiated the rights to the films themselves for Mac distribution, but that seems pretty unlikely, as it's not even the same set of studios involved.

[ryanozawa]

I too have been miffed at the limited Mac support out of TiVo. But as a Mac user, I liked that I was still able to download and watch Amazon Unbox content on my TiVo without involving a computer -- Mac or Windows PC -- in the transaction.

Indeed, I was surprised at how relatively painless it was (http://www.lightfantastic.org/imr/extras/weblog/archives/004620.html). Apart from that dread DRM...

It'd be great to save downloaded content on my Mac and serve it from there as needed to the living room... but that's what my Apple TV and iTunes library will hopefully do. When the Apple TV actually ships, that is!

[pkscout]

Apple doesn't license FairPlay, but that doesn't prevent others from implementing their own DRM scheme's decoding on the platform. After all, that's exactly what TiVo/Roxio had to do. In other words, TiVo never said this, because it wasn't true.

Or, better yet, no DRM. If you feel like you need some way to track the content, watermarking would be more than sufficient to identify and catch pirates, would be much easier to implement cross platform, and would allow us to exercise our fair use rights. Case and point. One of the latest round of Oscar films got from a voter to the public despite all the DRM wrapped around the thing. How did they figure out who? Watermarking.

Of course now that I've typed that I've realized just watermarking rental stuff isn't really going to cut it. Oh well. It's such a pretty paragraph I'll just leave it. ;)

[TiVoStephen]

I do want to make it perfectly clear for Mac users: You can use Unbox today with your TiVo DVR. Browse to Amazon.com on your Mac, set up your account linking at the usual http://www.amazon.com/unbox/tivo/ URL, then search for TiVo content at Amazon's site, and download to your DVR.

We have many Mac users here at TiVo HQ, and they've been using Unbox for the last week with no issues or problems.

Best regards,
Stephen

[ZeoTiVo]

Just to reiterate TiVoStephens message that Unbox on the TiVo does not require a PC per se. Just a web browser and your broadband enabled TiVo DVR.

sounds like a load of malarkey to me, at least as far as Macs themselves are concerned (AppleTV and iPods are a different matter.) Apple doesn't license FairPlay, but that doesn't prevent others from implementing their own DRM scheme's decoding on the platform. After all, that's exactly what TiVo/Roxio had to do. In other words, TiVo never said this, because it wasn't true.
umm that is what I meant by having to go with a third party since Apple is not as interested in a PUBLIC API for DRM and developers are harder to find and then throw in the niche this is and the number of candidates goes down even more. TiVo found suitable resources to move forward at Roxio and Roxio cut a deal to be able to sell more if its software. Perhaps Amazon unbox will have to do the same.

Microsoft is instead placing DRM capabilities into the API set for windows and developers can take it and run plus there are just more developers. It is just harder to deliver this type of service on a Mac if you are not Apple itself. Short answer.

just a difference in the two OS companies I am noting in regards to the products this forum would like to see.

[Dennis Wilkinson]

I do want to make it perfectly clear for Mac users: You can use Unbox today with your TiVo DVR. Browse to Amazon.com on your Mac, set up your account linking at the usual http://www.amazon.com/unbox/tivo/ URL, then search for TiVo content at Amazon's site, and download to your DVR.

I'm aware of that, but it's a valid point to raise, so folks who aren't don't get the wrong impression of what TiVo is providing. In fact, since my interest in Unbox is for rentals of things I wouldn't purchase a disc for, and I have no interest in watching movies on any of my Macs (that's what I have this big screen at the front of my living room for) it's a bit of a moot point -- I'd just download things to the TiVo and be done with it. I've already rented a few, worked great, no problems ordering using Safari.

All that said, the point I was making with regards to Amazon's response still stands. Amazon is bringing their own DRM to the party, so whether or not that's usable on a Mac is up to Amazon (or their DRM vendor), not Apple.

Zeo, FWIW, it was this part of your statement that I was reacting to:

hmm, Amazon is saying what TiVo never would as it worked on ToGo for Mac.

As I said, this wasn't true for TiVo, so of course they didn't say it. ;) Of course, it's most likely not true for Amazon, either.

[ZeoTiVo]

Amazon is bringing their own DRM to the party, so whether or not that's usable on a Mac is up to Amazon (or their DRM vendor), not Apple. and that is simply the point I was making. Add to that that Apple is not making an open to the public DRM an integral part of their OS like Microsoft is and you see delays on 3rd party apps for Apple.

[Dennis Wilkinson]

Add to that that Apple is not making an open to the public DRM an integral part of their OS like Microsoft is and you see delays on 3rd party apps for Apple.

Microsoft having an "open to the public DRM" doesn't help people with their own DRM schemes, either, only those using Microsoft's DRM. Not everyone does that (Napster does, RealNetworks doesn't, for example.)

Frankly, I don't have any problem with Apple not making DRM an integral part of the OS. :D

[rainwater]

Microsoft having an "open to the public DRM" doesn't help people with their own DRM schemes, either, only those using Microsoft's DRM. Not everyone does that (Napster does, RealNetworks doesn't, for example.)


RealNetworks also has their own media player so adding DRM support on top off it was not very difficult.

Btw, I think you are confusing DRM on Windows versus DRM created by a 3rd party. TiVo has its own DRM that can be played in Windows Media player. On Windows, there is nothing preventing a company from creating it's own DRM that works nicely with Windows Media Player. On Mac OS, you either have to create your own media player to play your own DRM or do like Roxio and just strip the DRM from the files. Neither of those is a good solution for any company.

[ZeoTiVo]

Frankly, I don't have any problem with Apple not making DRM an integral part of the OS. :D I do not have any problem with that either, but then I am not waiting on products to upport Macs. ;)



PS - I would rather we just had no DRM and developers could just work on highly functional apps. But that is not the legal environment we have. I do also support watermarks and nice fines for those that hand out content that is not their own or break a known license agreed to when getting content