View Full Version : Anyone own an Anthem D2/AVM 50 or external scaler? (handshake issues)
03-09-2007, 05:05 PM
I wonder if anyone here has an Anthem paired with the Tivo S3?
Myself, and another gentleman at AVS forum appear to be the only two (whch I am aware of) with this combination.
I have an Anthem AVM 50 which has Gennum-powered video processing. The S3 is run in native mode, the TV, Anthem and S3 are all connected via HDMI.
The issue is losing the handshake when changing channels which require a resolution change, or simply choosing a program from within the S3 (720p) menu. The selected program may be a different resolution (480i, 1080i), then the S3 menu, causing the S3 to lose the handshake. Audio and video are lost to a blue screen.
Once in a while, I'll only lose audio, but very rarely. Out of possibly 20 failures, only losing video may happen once, while losing audio and video may fail 19 times out of 20.
The only way to correct the handshake is to swap video inputs on the Anthem, then switch back to the S3.
I have owned the Anthem before the S3, and bought the S3 within a week of its deployment. This issue was present from day one.
I have talked with Anthem, we are currently thinking this is may be an issue with the S3, although not certain.
So, If anyone has this combo, or has an idea as to what may be going on, please leave some feedback.
03-10-2007, 12:17 AM
I've been using the D2 and S3 for a while (was an early adopter of both). Using the latest D2 beta (1.11g) is pretty stable. I get occasional blue screens going from the 720p menu to a 480i view. I also have recurring problems if Edges are on in the D2 and I switch from 1080i to 720p, it crashes the D2 and requires a power cycle.
I added a button to my remote to switch the D2 to an unused input and back to the TiVo to make the blue screens go away easily.
03-11-2007, 03:13 AM
I have this problem with a DVDO VP50, I generally power the VP50 off, then on, and the image comes back. I'm not sure if it's a problem with the S3 or the VP50, but it is somewhat annoying.
03-11-2007, 11:17 AM
Thanks for chiming in guys.
Well, after searching this forum, and posting a similar question on AVS forums, I have yet to find a single person not having a problem with the S3 (run in native mode)when used with an external scaler.
kennenSR-I'm glad you mentioned the DVDO VP50, as this confirms that it is not an Anthem only problem. I'm going to search the "video processor" forum at AVS and see what others have to say.
So it does appear to be a problem with the S3. I really hope a future Tivo software install can remedy the problem.
Although, there will be very few of us with with external scalers and Tivo may not feel inclined to do anything to fix the issue.
I would like to speak to someone at Tivo regarding this issue, but don't want to talk to someone who has no idea what a scaler is, and blows me off.
Does anyone have an e-mail address or a phone number to someone who may be helpful?
03-11-2007, 07:07 PM
I have problems with the HDMI connection between a Series 3 TiVo and an AVM50. Specifically, when I switch the TiVo from copy protected to non copy protected and then back to copy protected material, DHCP does not engage and the AVM50 “mutes” both its audio and video outputs. Toggling the AVM50 to another input, then back to the TiVo HDMI input, causes DHCP to re-engage and both audio and video are outputted correctly.
The TiVo is set to native mode. The AVM50 is set to <No> in the HDMI Repeater field at Anthem's suggestion.
The TiVo, when directly connected via HDMI to the Panasonic plasma display, does not exhibit any problems.
Anthem speculates that the issue is caused by TiVo's HDMI implementation. Anthem released software revision 1.1 a few weeks ago, but that did not appear to have any impact on the TiVo HDMI problem.
03-11-2007, 08:29 PM
I just added an Anthem AVM-50 to the TiVo S3, but I use component output rather than HDMI. Sadly, despite the lack of HDMI handshake issues the screen still goes blue once in awhile just briefly, in the middle of programs, and then back to normal). The Anthem also causes some buzzing in some or all of my speakers, depending on the moment, and there appears to be some jitter in the picture from time to time. All in all, not what I would expect from a 4k+ processor/scaler
Keep us posted on your progress!
Seeing as how compatible the S3 has proven to be with TVs that have an accurate HDMI 1.1 or higher implementation, I'd not consider myself going out on a limb if I were to suggest the problem lay with whatever (apparently non-compliant) chipset your Anthems use.
But I'm not saying I'm never wrong either.
Hope you can figure this out - I imagine it's a pain to have two very high-end devices and have to work through a kluge to enjoy using them together!
And thanks for being the trailblazers ... someday, when I win the Powerball, I plan to buy an everything-to-1080P scaler :)
03-18-2007, 04:06 PM
Well, I decided to call Tivo tech support. For those with scalers, here is the result of the phone call.
I wont go on and on about how baffled I was to hear the various statements I did. However, I will say I was very disappointed with the end result of my call to Tivo.
A brief recap.
I did mention I was simply calling today to make light of an issue and not looking for a fix or answer today, but would like Tivo to take note of an issue and possibly address it with a future software update.
After explaining everything in detail, the tech actually refused (not in a rude tone) to address this particular problem, for a couple reasons.
Tivo does not support scalers. (I mentioned many, if not all TV's used with the S3 have scalers built in, since an HD tv will scale the signal to its native resolution. Afterwards, I learned he actually didn't know what a scaler was, I attempted to help him understand what scalers do, the best I could, yet he could tell me in no uncertain terms, scalers are not supported.)
Tivo does not support repeaters. (I attempted to briefly explain what a repeater does, but I saw no sense in continuing the conversation much further as we were going in circles)
After all this, he asked me what I meant when I spoke of "losing the handshake" For obvious reasons, I was perplexed as to how he could be so certain of not able to help without fully understanding what I am calling about. :confused:
He mentioned before hanging up (to help me understand), it's like buying a new car and having the car "souped" up and expecting the dealership to repair it if I have a problem. :confused: :eek:
So there you go. :down:
For the record, for those unsure of the specs of the Anthem scaler, it is the latest Gennum processor available today, and does incorporate HDMI 1.1. Remember, the Anthem scaler is not the only scaler not working the the S3.
In all fairness, there are many HDMI devices which are causing problems for people with higher end receivers, pre-pros, and scalers. Unfortunately, shoddy workmanship from the guilty manufacturers combined with a "I can care less" attitude towards implementing it correctly or helping the consumer (Tivo) will or may make HDMI either useless or a headache for those of us spending money on their poor implementation of the technology.
Currently, I pulled Tivo's HDMI cable, connected component cables and toslink. It now works problem free. And coencidently Tivo, your hooked up to the Anthem scaler and a scaling TV, and it all works. Imagine that!
Umm - I realize you spent a lot of moolah on your scaler - but speaking from following tonnes of discussions about the S3 - it is an incredibly compatible implementation of the HDMI handshake/protocol, and failures ONLY occur with TVs/HT receivers with badly implemented HDMI (which almost invariably work unreliably with other HDMI sources TOO)
Odds are VERY high that your scaler is the faulty device in this chain, and I really don't see how you expect TiVo to 'fix' or even debug/diagnose this. You and I both know that the adoption process of a new interconnect/technology is a risky state of affairs, and there is a good chance things will fail.
Your options (IMO) are ..
- see if you can return the S3
- debug this in an enterprising fashion - send the S3 HDMI output to your scaler through a stabilizer or HDMI switch and/or insert another HDMI stabilizer (the kind used for long cable runs) on the output side of the Anthem as well.
- OF COURSE (DO this FIRST) - try hooking the S3 directly to your TV (with and without an HDMI switch/stabilizer etc) to see if you can determine (by elimination) what the faulty device in the chain might be
Also, if living without the S3 isn't an option either, consider setting the S3 to 1080i fixed and let it do the scaling for the menu and for 480i/720P channels. It DOES have an excellent scaler (likely close to that in the Gennum) from Broadcom (IIRC) and folks with very large TVs and projectors have NOT complained about the quality of fixed resolutionsc aling by the S3. 1080i fixed sounds like it should eliminate the resolution change handshake issue you notice. Let the Anthem scale (only) your junk sources (480P DVD, camcorder, whatnot ...) :)
FWIW - the resolution change (with the S3 set to native output) causes absolutely no issues with my no-name small brand (Sceptre) 1080P LCD HDTV. Nor with TVs owned by many other folks, with different resolutions. I just have the S3 set to 1080i fixed because my cheap-o TV has inferior scaling :)
Keep us posted - and good luck!
03-18-2007, 09:58 PM
For another data point, I have the Series 3 HDMI cabled through a Pioneer 84TXS. I have the Tivo set to native mode and have the Pioneer receiver scaling all the inputs to 720P. Outside of an occational flash when moving from a 1080i input to the 720P menu, I'm not having any issues, including handshaking.
Again, I'm not saying your scaler is doing something wrong or that Tivo should not provide some assistance in resolving the problem. I'm just adding this as another data point for your consideration.
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