CNN Article: Can this fading TV show be saved? (Lost, Studio 60, Friday Night Lights)

[drew2k]

Link: http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/02/28/apontv.salvagejob.ap/index.html

Sometimes a TV series needs a tune-up. Tweak the plots, juice the promotion and it may end up a challenger in the ratings race.
[...]
At NBC, "Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip" recently shifted from social issues and corporate clashes to romance, stepping up Matt and Harriet's (Matthew Perry, Sarah Paulson) breakup angst and Danny's (Bradley Whitford) passionate pursuit of Jordan (Amanda Peet).
[...]

[sieglinde]

I think parts of it were just a bit smug. I enjoy it so I will watch whatever I have saved on my Tivo but I can see why it did not find an audience.

[Bryanmc]

I will be very sad to see Lost go. I enjoy Friday Night Lights and Studio 60, but wouldn't miss them so much if (when) they're gone.

Lost however, is one of my favorite shows.

[5thcrewman]

It's Natural Selection.
The smarter, faster, less self-impressed shows will eat their lunch!

[sonnik]

Studio 60 is on in a plainly bad timeslot. Many people have some form of DVR now, but it's an issue of discovery.

People love Heroes, but may not be interested in Studio 60. Some of us like both.

I have a hunch that Studio 60 could find more of an audience - but if your parents or grandparents aren't watching Heroes - why would they discover Studio 60?

Put it in a Friday or Saturday night spot, possibly on Sunday in West Wing's old time slot. Even though those are "death spots" - you can milk up viewership by putting them in the right place on Bravo. DVD sales may be encouraged also.

My Monday views go to 24 and Heroes. Adding a 3rd hourlong drama on the same night makes it tough.

My "gotta-see" shows are Mondays and Thursdays. I have a hunch that for others like me, there are chasms of nothing in the rest of the week.

[jones07]

Maybe it's time for Lost to get.........................Lost.

It's a once great tv show that ran its course :o

[MikeMar]

I'd hate to see Lost or Friday Night go away

my 2 favorite hour long shows on now, hands down

[Jesda]

Even after going to the NBC site, I have no idea what the hell Studio 60 is about or what kind of show it is. I only hear about it on this forum.

Marketing failure.

[MFruchey]

Actually, Lost recently had what many agree to be one of its best episodes ever, but viewers disappointed by the six episode fall mini-season don't seem to be willing to give it another try. ABC's nonsensical marketing campaign (about three big Lost mysteries being solved) didn't help, either. I sometimes read spoilers, and the writers themselves are promising some big things, which I really think they intend to deliver. But, if no one's watching them deliver those things, it'll be too late to make any difference.

[vikingguy]

I hope friday night lights does not change. I would rather have 1 season of greatness than to have extra seasons of crap. The show is just outstanding right now no need to change. I blame nbc for not being able to market the show properly. I still hold out hope it gets a second season because it can't cost that much to make compared to other shows like studio 60.

I do not see much of a change for HIMYM. The robin video was totally in character with the show. I think the show just simpley hit its stride like many do after the first season.

[jsmeeker]

I hope friday night lights does not change. I would rather have 1 season of greatness than to have extra seasons of crap. The show is just outstanding right now no need to change. I blame nbc for not being able to market the show properly. I still hold out hope it gets a second season because it can't cost that much to make compared to other shows like studio 60.


I agree about FNL. The show itself has been very very good. There were some weak spots earlier, but I think they have done a nice job fixing those. I guess they are eithter not marketing correctly or their simple is not a large enough market for a quality show with this subject matter.

[DevdogAZ]

I'll be sad to see all three of these shows go, but not surprised.

I think LOST has easily got another season in it. I'll be shocked if either of the other two make it to a second season. I do think that FNL is one of the most realistically written and acted dramas I've watched in a long time. I love the concept of S60 and love Sorkin's writing, but haven't really been all that impressed with the execution of the show, especially the Matt/Harriett business.

[busyba]

It's Natural Selection.
Heaven knows nothing involving Network Executives could be considered Intelligent Design.

[DougF]

Studio 60 is on in a plainly bad timeslot. Many people have some form of DVR now, but it's an issue of discovery.

People love Heroes, but may not be interested in Studio 60. Some of us like both.

I have a hunch that Studio 60 could find more of an audience - but if your parents or grandparents aren't watching Heroes - why would they discover Studio 60?

Put it in a Friday or Saturday night spot, possibly on Sunday in West Wing's old time slot. Even though those are "death spots" - you can milk up viewership by putting them in the right place on Bravo. DVD sales may be encouraged also.

My Monday views go to 24 and Heroes. Adding a 3rd hourlong drama on the same night makes it tough.

My "gotta-see" shows are Mondays and Thursdays. I have a hunch that for others like me, there are chasms of nothing in the rest of the week.


Studio 60 had an audience: it just couldn't hold it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studio_60

Check out the ratings table just past the midpoint of the page. S60's rating, share and viewers are all half or less of what they were for the premiere.

[DougF]

I didn't like S60 (gave up after two episodes) and haven't watched FNL but I love Lost. IMO, it's nearly as good as it was during the incredible first season. The newness is gone, I'll admit,. But, it's still must-see in our house.

Lost had series-low viewers two weeks ago. I haven't heard about last week's episode yet. I think it will get another year, but that's it.

[mwhip]

FNL is must watch TV for me and about as high a praise for a network TV show I can give. Anyone who reads this board should be giving it a chance because we really don't recommend crap around here. I am not a fan of 24 or BSG but I gave them try because the board was loving them and I trust this place.

Yes the marketing for FNL sucks I am not sure if they actually actively tried to recruit teenagers to watch the show but I think the 8pm slot hurts the show it would be better off at 9pm.

I think FNL is back next year and on a short leash. S60 is gone though the only reason they kept it was because of the contract with Sorkin which would have cost them almost as much to cancel it as making all 22 episodes this year. Lost does really well in that 18-34 demo so that show most definitely will be back.

[vikingguy]

FNL is must watch TV for me and about as high a praise for a network TV show I can give. Anyone who reads this board should be giving it a chance because we really don't recommend crap around here. I am not a fan of 24 or BSG but I gave them try because the board was loving them and I trust this place.

Yes the marketing for FNL sucks I am not sure if they actually actively tried to recruit teenagers to watch the show but I think the 8pm slot hurts the show it would be better off at 9pm.

I think FNL is back next year and on a short leash. S60 is gone though the only reason they kept it was because of the contract with Sorkin which would have cost them almost as much to cancel it as making all 22 episodes this year. Lost does really well in that 18-34 demo so that show most definitely will be back.

I know it is a show with football but I think they should try and market FNL to women. The show really is about family and relationships. IMO there is not a show on TV that does a better job portraying a family than FNL does with the taylors. I really think the show could draw an audience if marketed right.

[betts4]

Neither Friday nights or Lost should go anywhere. They are not losing it and still have the chance. I will be sad if this article will be the cause of the start of the avanlanche that takes them down. I enjoy both very much.

[spikedavis]

Out of the three show, Friday Night Lights is far and away the best show and deserves to come back. Other than Heroes, I think this is my 2nd favorite show on TV. I love it!

[f0gax]

Studio 60 had an audience: it just couldn't hold it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studio_60

Check out the ratings table just past the midpoint of the page. S60's rating, share and viewers are all half or less of what they were for the premiere.

That table helps me with something I started thinking about at the top of this thread. Why are we judging current performance of a show against its premier episode? A lot of people will watch a premier to see if they like it. And without seeing this information I though that a more fair measure would be against the viewership of around episode 3 to 5. By then you've weeded out the folks who aren't going to watch anymore.

In the case of Studio 60, they aren't doing that bad if you use that sort of metric. They aren't doing great either. But comparing the most recent ep's 6.4M to S01E03's 8.85M or S01E05's 7.74M is much more favorable than comparing it to S01E01's 13M. And that, at least in my opinion, is also much more realistic as a metric of long-term success.

Granted, the trend is down. Which is also a problem.

[BriGuy20]

I was one of the millions of people that turned off "Studio 60" about 15 minutes into the first episode, so no comment there.

I would be sad to see Friday Night Lights and Lost go.

With Friday Night Lights, they have the built-in opportunity for change given that the High School students have to graduate. The question is how much will they keep (i.e. will they follow some of the players to college) and how much they'll toss out. As it is now, it's one of the best dramas on TV.

Lost flagged a bit earlier this season, but it's gotten better. I admit that ABC's marketing has pissed more than a few people off. I'm confident that it will end up being worth the time invested when all is said and done.

[TAsunder]

Sorkin's assessment that tv shows about tv shows are a hard sell because viewers don't think it's real work is kind of bogus. A bit of a cop out. If a show about people who don't appear to even have jobs (seinfeld), people in the fashion industry (ugly betty), and housewives staying at home and sleeping with the pool boy (desperate housewives) can succeed, I think it's safe to say that audiences still enjoy shows about people with cushy or non-existent jobs.

I agree with the article's theory that S60 must do something drastic and if it did, I bet it could make a comeback.

I think Lost is not likely to win back fans that stopped watching because they were tired of being teased. But they could definitely stop the bleeding by refraining from the tease and improving marketting so that every episode isn't marketted as revealing some big secret. And definitely shy away from blatant false advertising.

[DougF]

Sorkin's assessment that tv shows about tv shows are a hard sell because viewers don't think it's real work is kind of bogus...

I don't think so. Most people seem to think that actors, athletes, etc. are way overpaid. They probably think comedy actors are really overpaid since they are just goofing off on camera. S60 (from what little I saw) wanted to show that putting on a comedy show is really hard work. I don't think a whole lot of people want to believe that.

[Magnolia88]

I'm not sure I understand why they are lumping in Lost with the other two shows.

The numbers for Lost are down from where they used to be, but it is still a hit show. It was in the Top 10 last week in the 18-49 rating, so I don't see how that can be considered a "failing" show. Sure, it would be nice to be on top again, but I really doubt it's going to be canceled and has another season or two left at least.

Friday Night Lights is a fantastic show that could grow its audience, if only people were willing to give it a chance. (AKA the Veronica Mars problem: people think the show is something different from what it is.)

I agree with the above comments that women would really enjoy the show if they checked it out. But the emphasis on football in the marketing probably put a lot of women off. It's really more of a family drama than anything, and an extremely well done one at that.

I don't see what S60 could do at this point to turn things around. It's been a huge disappointment for a lot of people and I think everyone who would enjoy the show has probably already sampled it by now and many of them have stopped watching.

[TAsunder]

I don't think so. Most people seem to think that actors, athletes, etc. are way overpaid. They probably think comedy actors are really overpaid since they are just goofing off on camera. S60 (from what little I saw) wanted to show that putting on a comedy show is really hard work. I don't think a whole lot of people want to believe that.

I don't disagree that people might think TV is easy work. What I disagree with is the idea that S60 is failing because of that. People didn't like the show because the plot, dialogue, or whatever didn't appeal to them, not because the think it's a bunch of horse crap that the characters would have to do work to put on a show.

I don't think people who discount acting as "easy work" do so because of the hours. They do so because it's entertainment. This is the same mentality many people have about professional sports, especially golf and nascar. That doesn't mean no one would want to watch a show about golf or nascar if it were a good show.

Lastly, they don't really focus a lot on the actual making of a TV show anyway, and certainly don't spend a lot of time trying to prove that it is hard work. The only people seen working "hard" regularly are the writers and occasionally timothy busfield's character.

[DougF]

I'm not sure I understand why they are lumping in Lost with the other two shows.

The numbers for Lost are down from where they used to be, but it is still a hit show. It was in the Top 10 last week in the 18-49 rating, so I don't see how that can be considered a "failing" show. Sure, it would be nice to be on top again, but I really doubt it's going to be canceled and has another season or two left at least...

The number of viewers two weeks ago was something like 12 million. I think it used to draw close to or over 20 million. That a big drop and I'm sure it's a very expensive show.

[Magnolia88]

The number of viewers two weeks ago was something like 12 million. I think it used to draw close to or over 20 million. That a big drop and I'm sure it's a very expensive show.

I get that the total numbers are way down, but it's still a huge hit, relatively speaking. The 18-49 rating is what counts for ad revenues (or at least I think so), and Lost is still a Top 10 show. Last week it got a higher rating than 24, and Lost is on at 10pm, which is usually a lower-rated slot.

I can understand that ABC is disappointed in the big drop in viewers for Lost, but it's not nearly in the kind of ratings basement that the other two shows are in. Many other shows are in more danger of being canceled than Lost is.

[Alfer]

LOST will make it till the end of it's planned ending, NO doubt about that.

S60 was about a topic almost nobody really cared about...they peaked early because people wanted to get their fix of Matt Perry but soon realized what a boring dud of a show/storyline it was and bailed. It will not survive.

Never watched FNL just because I'm not a football fan and couldn't get into a weekly story about it.

[drew2k]

I'm having a hard time thinking about office/workplace dramas that DID make it. I can only come up with two:

- West Wing
- Lou Grant

So what was the difference that those two shows lasted several seasons, and Studio 60 didn't may not?

I think one reason S60 may have lost some audience is that the first few episodes were heavily critical of the religious-right, which immediately alienated part of the audience.

EDIT: I don't want to jump the gun here - NBC hasn't announced anything yet - so I fixed my question above.

[Alfer]

I'm having a hard time thinking about office/workplace dramas that DID make it. I can only come up with two:

- West Wing
- Lou Grant

So what was the difference that those two shows lasted several seasons, and Studio 60 didn't?

I think one reason S60 may have lost some audience is that the first few episodes were heavily critical of the religious-right, which immediately alienated part of the audience.

I still contend that a show mimicing NBC and mimicing a unpopular show on NBC like SNL is just plain doomed. The topic is/was unappealing and uninteresting from the get go IMO.

[mwhip]

Never watched FNL just because I'm not a football fan and couldn't get into a weekly story about it.

This is exactly what we are talking about how FNL was marketed wrong. This show is not about football. For instance this week they showed about 3 minutes of football the rest is a very well written and engaging drama about a small town.

[cherry ghost]

On FNL, how many of the students/players that are considered main characters are seniors that shouldn't be around next season?

[mwhip]

On FNL, how many of the students/players that are considered main characters are seniors that shouldn't be around next season?

I think only 2. Jason Street and Riggins. Smash is a junior and Saracen is a sophomore.

[Magnolia88]

I'm having a hard time thinking about office/workplace dramas that DID make it. I can only come up with two:

- West Wing
- Lou Grant



Studio 60 is a "workplace" show, but it's not really set in an "office." There have been MANY other workplace dramas that have succeeded, but most of them are set in a hospital or police station.

Other workplace dramas set anywhere outside a hospital or police station: L.A. Law, Boston Public, Boston Legal, Numb3rs, Ally McBeal. Lots of other lawyer shows.

[drew2k]

Studio 60 is a "workplace" show, but it's not really set in an "office." There have been MANY other workplace dramas that have succeeded, but most of them are set in a hospital or police station.

Other workplace dramas set anywhere outside a hospital or police station: L.A. Law, Boston Public, Boston Legal, Numb3rs, Ally McBeal. Lots of other lawyer shows.But in the other shows you mention, two-thirds of the plot are about cases being tired, or clients, or patients. Studio 60 is focused entirely on running the show and on the people who work at Studio 60, so it's different from all of the other workplace dramas. (I suppose I shouldn't have listed Lou Grant earlier - that show focused on the editors and reporters, but also focused heavily on the subjects under investigation.)

[Magnolia88]

Studio 60 is focused entirely on running the show and on the people who work at Studio 60, so it's different from all of the other workplace dramas.

True, and that kind of show is rare. The West Wing and Studio 60 are both workplace dramas that are almost entirely about the people working in the workplace.

I guess you could say that Sports Night is also in that category, although most people consider SN a comedy, not a drama. (But I think that's up for debate -- it's definitely not a "sitcom" in the traditional sense and blends drama and comedy about as much as S60 does imho.)

The real issue isn't that S60 is set in the workplace, it's that the people working in the workplace have to be likeable and entertaining characters doing interesting and entertaining things. That's where many people find S60 lacking. More people were interested in the drama behind the scenes at the White House than the dramatic inner workings of a comedy show.

[jsmeeker]

I'm confused as to how S60 differs from West Wing, Boston Legal, etc. etc.

[drew2k]

All the lawyer/cop/doctor shows have a revolving door of guest stars, with each week bringing up a new story that is essentially resolved within that episode. West Wing also had numerous guest stars and stories that were resolved in the same episode. We grew to know and love the characters on these shows by how they dealt with external influences (their clients, patients, constituents, etc.) These shows didn't just deal with the series regulars and stories about the series regulars. IMO, that's where Studio 60 is different: every story is focusing on the series regulars and how they deal with each other, and when fans start to hate some of the stories (eg, Harriet and Matt), you get unhappy fans.

[jsmeeker]

All the lawyer/cop/doctor shows have a revolving door of guest stars, with each week bringing up a new story that is essentially resolved within that episode. West Wing also had numerous guest stars and stories that were resolved in the same episode. We grew to know and love the characters on these shows by how they dealt with external influences (their clients, patients, constituents, etc.) These shows didn't just deal with the series regulars and stories about the series regulars. IMO, that's where Studio 60 is different: every story is focusing on the series regulars and how they deal with each other, and when fans start to hate some of the stories (eg, Harriet and Matt), you get unhappy fans.


Hmmm

to me, S60 has guest stars too. We have Harriet's boyfreind/movie director. We had the Chinese guy. We had the person that was doing a magazine article on the show. We had a lawyer investigating sexual harassment suit. etc. etc. The show also has multiple story arcs per episode. To me, it seems like a typical TV drama structure.

[drew2k]

Hmmm

to me, S60 has guest stars too. We have Harriet's boyfreind/movie director. We had the Chinese guy. We had the person that was doing a magazine article on the show. We had a lawyer investigating sexual harassment suit. etc. etc. The show also has multiple story arcs per episode. To me, it seems like a typical TV drama structure.I'm talking about "workplace" dramas, and other than "West Wing", I can't think of any other successful workplace dramas that weren't structured around guest stars. The plots for the guest stars drives the story: new client - how will the law firm defend the client; new patient - how will the medical staff cure the patient; new victim - how will the crime fighters bring the perpetrator to justice. West Wing didn't rely on that structure, but was successful. Studio 60 doesn't rely on that structure, but doesn't seem to be successful.

[jsmeeker]

I'm talking about "workplace" dramas, and other than "West Wing", I can't think of any other successful workplace dramas that weren't structured around guest stars. The plots for the guest stars drives the story: new client - how will the law firm defend the client; new patient - how will the medical staff cure the patient; new victim - how will the crime fighters bring the perpetrator to justice. West Wing didn't rely on that structure, but was successful. Studio 60 doesn't rely on that structure, but doesn't seem to be successful.

oh.. I see. I din't realize we were using actual ratings success as the differentiating factor. I don't remember what West Wing's rating were in it's first season. I didn't even start watching until sometime in the second.

[drew2k]

oh.. I see. I din't realize we were using actual ratings success as the differentiating factor. I don't remember what West Wing's rating were in it's first season. I didn't even start watching until sometime in the second.To bring it full circle, this all goes back to my opening comments and question:I'm having a hard time thinking about office/workplace dramas that DID make it. I can only come up with two:

- West Wing
- Lou Grant

So what was the difference that those two shows lasted several seasons, and Studio 60 didn't may not?

I think one reason S60 may have lost some audience is that the first few episodes were heavily critical of the religious-right, which immediately alienated part of the audience.

EDIT: I don't want to jump the gun here - NBC hasn't announced anything yet - so I fixed my question above.I seriously don't understand why Studio 60 isn't succeeding. It has a great cast, smart writing, great production values, a great lead-in (Heroes) ... but it's not hitting with the public. It can't be JUST because it's a behind the scenes look at a late night comedy, but I can't say why it's not a hit.

[jsmeeker]

To bring it full circle, this all goes back to my opening comments and question:I seriously don't understand why Studio 60 isn't succeeding. It has a great cast, smart writing, great production values, a great lead-in (Heroes) ... but it's not hitting with the public. It can't be JUST because it's a behind the scenes look at a late night comedy, but I can't say why it's not a hit.


Lots of good shows don't get good ratings.

FNL isn't getting them. American Dreams didn't get them either.

[madscientist]

This is exactly what we are talking about how FNL was marketed wrong. This show is not about football. For instance this week they showed about 3 minutes of football the rest is a very well written and engaging drama about a small town.Absolutely. In fact, in at least half the shows there isn't a single minute of a football game in the entire show. In those shows the only football is a short scene or two at practice, and the scene usually has the coach or someone facing a problem while the players run drills unobtrusively in the background.

In fact, I think we've seen almost as much quad rugby as we've seen football game footage!

If you didn't watch this because you didn't want to watch football, then you're really missing out on great TV because of an incorrect assumption.

[astrohip]

It's been mentioned above, but worth repeating. Yes, LOST's numbers are down big time, but don't forget, it was the #1 show for a while. And even with losing 5-6 million viewers, it is still a top-rated show. Top ten for the highly regarded young male demographic, and top twenty overall. These are ratings most shows would kill for. The ratings are also down for several other "must see TV" type shows (24, CSI), but there is no talk of cancellation. Why? Because even though the numbers are down from stratospheric levels, they are still flying high.

You do not kill a show because its ratings have dropped, you kill it because not enough people watch to make selling ads profitable. LOST is nowhere near that. Regardless of what it costs per episode.

If a hitter has a .330 season, you don't cut him when he only hits .300. You may pay him less, or move him around the lineup, or trade him, but he still plays. For someone.

The show will run at least another year, maybe two, depending on the story arc the creators want to take pursue.

[Magnolia88]

If you didn't watch this because you didn't want to watch football, then you're really missing out on great TV because of an incorrect assumption.

Yes! I HATE football -- HATE IT!!-- but FNL is NOT about football.

It just uses the football team as a backdrop for the stories about people and life in a small town. It's an intelligent, well-written drama and it's about the kinds of people that you don't see on TV much these days. (How many shows are set in small towns lately? Everwood was canceled, so I think FNL may be it.)

Sports Night had the same problem -- people used to tell me, "I don't watch it because I'm not interested in sports." But SN wasn't about sports, it was about people. People who are interested in sports and work at a tv show about sports, but SN really didn't have much to do with sports, despite its name.

[TIVOSciolist]

LOST will make it till the end of it's planned ending, NO doubt about that.

Imagine the uproar if the show were to be cancelled after three or four seasons without coming to a final resolution.

[mattack]

Yes! I HATE football -- HATE IT!!-- but FNL is NOT about football.


I still haven't watched FNL, but that's the same reaction I had to Sports Night.
I hate(*) sports, but Sports Night was great (of course, another Sorkin show), because it wasn't really about sports.

(*) Ok, I guess mostly I mean weekly pro sports. I'm addicted to some Olympics events, I've seen a bunch of Little League World Series-es, and the Ironman Triathlon shows for the past few years. Also, I wouldn't want to get rid of ESPN nor Fox Sports net, but 99% because of their poker shows (and the other 1% to other "weird" things like food challenge shows and juggling competition coverage).

[mattack]

Even after going to the NBC site, I have no idea what the hell Studio 60 is about or what kind of show it is. I only hear about it on this forum.

It is "The West Wing", except being about the President (or the President's staff), it's about the staff that runs a TV show.

I'm not trying to make everything so vague and high level that it could describe anything.. I really mean it, because it's got that great Sorkin writing.. That's why I really like this show. I think most people that don't like West Wing would like this, and I don't see how most people who liked West Wing wouldn't like this.. you've got at least one of the same actors, plus the Matthew Perry fans..

[mattack]

Link: http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/02/28/apontv.salvagejob.ap/index.html

In the podcast on Aaron Barnhart's TV barn page, Sorkin specifically says that the romance angle was planned all along. He might not be telling the truth, but he said it.

[DevdogAZ]

In the podcast on Aaron Barnhart's TV barn page, Sorkin specifically says that the romance angle was planned all along. He might not be telling the truth, but he said it.
I think it was clearly planned all along, as they've been trying to shove that uninterensting relationship (Matt/Harriet) down our throats the entire season, but I think it has been made more of a focus than they originally planned, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Danny/Jordan thing was added on the fly.

[hearth]

I seriously don't understand why Studio 60 isn't succeeding. It has a great cast, smart writing, great production values, a great lead-in (Heroes) ... but it's not hitting with the public. It can't be JUST because it's a behind the scenes look at a late night comedy, but I can't say why it's not a hit.

I can give you one suggestion, because it is the reason that my wife (first) and I later dropped the show. We are Christian republicans, and I consider myself very thick skinned about both of those areas (to show you how much, Boston Legal and the West Wing are two of my favorite shows, and they have been guilty of slamming both religious and conservatives). I am not afraid to hear (and occasionally agree with, especially about the Iraq situation) opinions and views contrary to my own. However, the constant bashing of especially Christians, but also conservatives, really grew tired after the fifth or sixth week in a row. Sorkin obviously wanted a platform to push his agenda, but he needs to realize that at least 20-30% of his audience don't want to be called ignorant or evil for their choice of beliefs.

When you take a show that doesn't have a winning "hook" to begin with, and then push away a large percentage of those who do choose to sample the program, I can't see much hope for a turnaround...

Don

[murgatroyd]

However, the constant bashing of especially Christians, but also conservatives, really grew tired after the fifth or sixth week in a row. Sorkin obviously wanted a platform to push his agenda, but he needs to realize that at least 20-30% of his audience don't want to be called ignorant or evil for their choice of beliefs.

Your comments, and many others on this forum, make me wonder what alternate universe is broadcasting this show Studio 60 which I am watching. It is clearly not the same show everyone else is watching.

Case in point: after the episode "The Wrap Party" there was talk here (or at least fears that) Sorkin was 'calling Midwesterners stupid' because of the portrayal of Tom Jeter's parents, whom we see when they visit Tom at the theatre. The situation was a familiar one to any of us who have had life experiences (e.g. going to college) which the rest of our family does not have or share.

I watched two actors give very strong, sympathetic portrayals of two people who simply had difficulty relating to their son -- and it was clear in the context of the episode that a great deal of the difficulty was Tom's fault, because he has issues.

Long-time watchers of The West Wing ought to have figured out by now that Harriet Hayes is the character who has to struggle with being the slightly-odd fish in the pond; like her counterparts Ainsley Hayes and Joe Quincy, she has a calling for the work being done, just like everyone else on the staff. Yet her beliefs set her apart, just as her work sets her apart from others who share her beliefs.

Except this time, instead of being relegated to the steam pipe trunk distribution venue like Joe and Ainsley, she's smack in the middle of things, the star of the show-within-the-show.

And you say this show is anti-Christian? The whole show, all the time? The show where the cast meets together before their live broadcasts to pray before they go on? If the cast really had a problem with Harriet's beliefs, why would they do that?

Sure, a lot of the characters (or maybe it's just that uber-loudmouth, Matt Albie) may mouth off about Christians and conservatives, but so what? Everybody keeps saying that "Sorkin is saying this, Sorkin has an agenda, Sorkin is bashing these people" etc. ad nauseam.

Is there some kind of rule in modern TV which says that a guy writing a TV show must have all his characters be mouthpieces for what he really thinks? Is he not allowed to have his characters say stuff that he himself may find offensive and obnoxious? Did I not get the memo?

Or are TV watchers nowadays so clueless about what writers do, that if they channel-flip to TV Land and see All in the Family, they think Norman Lear believes all the stuff that Archie Bunker says?

Jan

[DevdogAZ]

As a religious conservative, the only thing that has bothered me is that Harriet is the least likeable character on the show, IMO. I can't stand her for some reason. I don't find her attractive, I don't like her attitude, and the fact that she's supposed to be the one representing traditional American values is just silly.

[hearth]

And you say this show is anti-Christian? The whole show, all the time? The show where the cast meets together before their live broadcasts to pray before they go on? If the cast really had a problem with Harriet's beliefs, why would they do that?

Sure, a lot of the characters (or maybe it's just that uber-loudmouth, Matt Albie) may mouth off about Christians and conservatives, but so what? Everybody keeps saying that "Sorkin is saying this, Sorkin has an agenda, Sorkin is bashing these people" etc. ad nauseam.

Is there some kind of rule in modern TV which says that a guy writing a TV show must have all his characters be mouthpieces for what he really thinks? Is he not allowed to have his characters say stuff that he himself may find offensive and obnoxious? Did I not get the memo?

Or are TV watchers nowadays so clueless about what writers do, that if they channel-flip to TV Land and see All in the Family, they think Norman Lear believes all the stuff that Archie Bunker says?

Jan

Hope you feel better. I did not say that it was all anti-Christian, all the time. If I cared enough about this show or "winning" this argument, I would try to go back in my memory for all the times I felt that religious people were put in a nice, big box labeled "idiot". However, I don't care about this argument or this show (anymore). When it premiered, I was excited about the show because of Sorkin, Perry, and Whitford. Over the process of 4 months (my last show was the Christmas episode), I was slowly turned off.

The person that I quoted in my original post asked why people were not watching or stopped watching. I was merely pointing out one possible explanation (my own). My opinion is not open to debate. I could take your post and try to rip apart your opinion, but I just don't care...

[murgatroyd]

As a religious conservative, the only thing that has bothered me is that Harriet is the least likeable character on the show, IMO. I can't stand her for some reason. I don't find her attractive, I don't like her attitude, and the fact that she's supposed to be the one representing traditional American values is just silly.

I don't mean to diss you or hearth. But I am baffled as to why some people take it all so personally.

Harriet's not supposed to be representing you and your values. She's just supposed to be a person. A flawed person, because perfect people don't have conflict in their lives and without conflict, you have no story.

There are certainly lots of things to not like about Harriet and to not like about Matt, or any other character on the show. But there are times when they are likeable. They are a mix of both likeable and not-likeable things, just like real people often are.

There are some people in real life whom I dislike across the board, but if Harriet Hayes was a real person, she would not be one of them. Exasperating, yes, but she's also funny and talented, and honorable -- her argument with Luke about the scene in the movie proves that.

If she were my co-worker, I would probably love her AND hate her, but I would definitely respect her.

Jan

[MegaHertz67]

My opinion is not open to debate.
I don't mean to diss you or hearth. But I am baffled as to why some people take it all so personally. What's the saying about the dangers of discussing religion, sex, or politics in mixed company?

Discussion about these topics always gets testy. Discussions on message boards seem to eventually get personal for some reason. So a message board discussion about a show that is rooted in discussion about politics, sex and religion...whew. Gasoline...meet match.

Back to the show. I love Lost and would consider myself a fan. I have enjoyed both of Sorkin's previous shows, and have probably given S60 the benefit of the doubt because I have faith (watch that word) that it will get better. I have never watched FNL, and have been told by friends that I am missing out. I chose not to watch FNL because I had too many hour dramas being Tivo'd and I didn't have the time to devote to another.

As far as S60 goes, I think that Sorkin was using the religion thing to create a buzz right at the open of the series. If it had been one episode and on to other topics, Hearth and others might have given it more of a chance. But if you beat up and insult people's beliefs for 4 or 5 straight shows, then that becomes what the show is all about. It's a shame because Sorkin has handled this much more deftly in the past.

In the last season of West Wing, the handling of the candidates was interesting and showed both sides to have ideological flaws that prevented them from coming to a shared middle ground. The Democrats were not always right or fair, and the Republicans were not always the bad guys. (In fact I read that until John Spencer died, the plotline had the Republicans winning the election.)

I hope S60 continues and gets renewed. I think it was starting to go to interesting places that didn't necessarily center around religion or politics. Just good old sex, drugs and alcohol like any other workplace.

[hearth]

I don't mean to diss you or hearth. But I am baffled as to why some people take it all so personally.

Jan

That's the thing, Jan. I don't take it personally. If I did, there is no way that Boston Legal or West Wing would ever be two of my favorite shows. But it did detract from my enjoyment of the show. Over time, I found myself watching the show later and later in the week, until the point came where I had 3 shows saved up, and no burning desire to watch them. That was when I realized that it was time to delete the season pass.

My whole point to posting all of this in the first place was just to point out that there might be more reasons why the show is slipping away towards cancellation then the ones that had been mentioned so far.

Don

[DevdogAZ]

I don't mean to diss you or hearth. But I am baffled as to why some people take it all so personally.

Harriet's not supposed to be representing you and your values. She's just supposed to be a person. A flawed person, because perfect people don't have conflict in their lives and without conflict, you have no story.

There are certainly lots of things to not like about Harriet and to not like about Matt, or any other character on the show. But there are times when they are likeable. They are a mix of both likeable and not-likeable things, just like real people often are.

There are some people in real life whom I dislike across the board, but if Harriet Hayes was a real person, she would not be one of them. Exasperating, yes, but she's also funny and talented, and honorable -- her argument with Luke about the scene in the movie proves that.

If she were my co-worker, I would probably love her AND hate her, but I would definitely respect her.

Jan
Oh, I'm not taking anything personally. I love the show and wish it would continue for years. I was simply pointing out that as a conservative and a Christian (but not a Christian Conservative), I don't find any of the characterizations of religion offensive in the least. It's just the typical stuff that comes out of Hollywood and if one can't have a thick skin about it, one needs to go live in a cave.

I was merely pointing out that the only thing I really don't like about the show is Harriet's character and the way her relationship with Matt has been crammed down our throats. As a Christian, you would think I would identify and sympathize with her, but I just can't stand her. It has nothing to do with flaws or imperfections. It's just the way the character has been portrayed from the beginning as a whiny wench.

[sonnik]

Studio 60 had an audience: it just couldn't hold it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studio_60

Check out the ratings table just past the midpoint of the page. S60's rating, share and viewers are all half or less of what they were for the premiere.

Exactly. They were marketing it at the wrong crowd. It was never meant to be a hip and trendy comedy, as NBC initially marketed it.

Simply put, they were hoping for a younger afluent audience, when they should be targeting the older afluent audience with promotion for the show.

I'm in my early 30s, and I like it - but then again I'm a SNL history buff. That's probably the only reason I watch it. I like watching it and realizing that Mark McKinney is essentially playing James Downey (someone McKinney worked for while he was on SNL), from what I've read about behind the scenes stuff.

But I don't see the Heroes lead-in crowd getting glued to it. Maybe if they paired it up with a show like "Las Vegas" or something. Even in a world of DVRs, strategic scheduling still has its place.

[TAsunder]

I'm in my first year of 30s and like it, but nowhere near as much as sports night, and certainly not even in the same galaxy as heroes. The show seems to take all the things I hated about west wing and all the things I loved about sports night and mixes them together into an inconsistent but enjoyable show. Maybe it SHOULD be a hip and trendy comedy. I would like it even more then.

The situation with lost is quite a bit different than S60. S60 never really had a steady and solid fan base. Lost on the other hand had everyone's attention and is slowly blowing it as fans start to believe the show is all "smoke and mirrors".

[Eddie501]

It's funny because these three shows just recently failed my 3 episode test. If I have 3 episodes that I haven't watched and can't force myself to watch them, it's time to delete the season pass.

FNL - tried the first two episodes. From all indications, it would be a show I'd enjoy. But I need dramamine in order to watch. The bobbing, weaving, zoom in-zoom out camera technique was tiresome in 1993 with NYPD Blue. Buy a steadicam & maybe I'll watch.

S60 - A drama about a comedy show this is neither funny nor very involving. There simply isn't anyone to identify with or even like.

Lost - I suddenly realized mid episode that I wasn't hating this show because of all the unsolved mysteries. I was hating it because it made me no longer care about the solutions. Too much stuff thrown out there just for the sake of having a cliffhanger. Which in way too many cases is never resolved or sometimes not even mentioned for several more episodes (if at all).

Good riddance to all three.

[drew2k]

It's funny because these three shows just recently failed my 3 episode test. If I have 3 episodes that I haven't watched and can't force myself to watch them, it's time to delete the season pass.Sidebar: My test is with 5 unwatched episodes. I just deleted season passes for Shark, Ghost Whisperer, Grey's Anatomy, and Supernatural because I had at least 5 episodes of each waiting to be watched.

[mattack]

Wow. There are a few times I have deleted shows unwatched, but most of the time I'll catch up on shows even when they've been cancelled. I've got tons of Grey's Anatomy and Jericho episodes to catch up on. Heck, I've got most of the past 2 years of 'er' burned to DVD, and I consider that one of my favorite shows ever. (I mean burned to DVD-R and I haven't watched most of them yet..) I do eventually get back into a show and watch a whole bunch in a row.

That doesn't mean there aren't shows I try out and stop watching, but I see that different than "nuke a show just because I haven't watched a few".

[murgatroyd]

I was merely pointing out that the only thing I really don't like about the show is Harriet's character and the way her relationship with Matt has been crammed down our throats. As a Christian, you would think I would identify and sympathize with her, but I just can't stand her. It has nothing to do with flaws or imperfections. It's just the way the character has been portrayed from the beginning as a whiny wench.

Actually I wouldn't expect any viewer to sympathize with Harriet simply because she is a Christian, and they are too. I might expect viewers to identify with characters because of the situations they are in, which might resonate with stuff that had happened in their own lives -- and everybody's different, so it's a very individual thing.

Jan

[visionary]

Man, you are guys and you don't realize what shows need to get a faithful audience? Why did I even record S60? Because I had a wish list for Amanda Peet from seeing ALL HER NINE YARDS or whatever its name was, with some super NUDITY that immediately made me want to go see ever thing she did. OK, this is network TV, but you can put in plenty of shower scenes (LOST is especially easy to do it and yet where is it? Their clothes could wear out and hey they have no more, and go to teeny togas of grass, along with lots of skinnydipping baths, add some in EACH episode, please!) and even S60, remember them stuck on the roof, well they start throwing down their clothes till they are.... well you get the idea. As proof, note the improved ratings for MEN IN TREES (also recorded due to a wish list for Anne Hect from a delightful prison movie shower scene) is up and she dropped her robe last episode, wish it had shown more but they are on the right track! Gee, and to fix FNL? Football has CHEERLEADERS and they need their SHOWERS after the game.... get the idea yet? Throw in some catfights in the showers between rival girls. I bet I could fix those ratings!