An Open Letter to TiVo

[Chuckles_077]

Dear TiVo;

What can I say? I looks as though I may have to move on without you. Don't get me wrong - you have been my faithful companion for nearly 4 years now, recording my every show and providing me with hours and hours of entertainment pleasure... but it appears as though your time has come.

You see - you've just become too much of a burden.

Now, mind you, I will keep your series 2 with lifetime service in a back bedroom. I will use that series 2 occasionally to tape and watch some shows, but it won't get the same attention as before.

I'm about to move into the high definition age. HD is the next logical step in television and unfortunately you, TiVo, aren't making that transition easy. You see, here are my options:

#1. Upgrade to TiVo Series 3:
$649 for series 3 TiVo Box (when I find a good deal), $299 for three years service, $7/mo to the cable company for the 2 cable cards, $60 for installation of said cable cards, $49.99 for the USB Cable.
Total: $1058 to get started and $1309 total for 3 years

#2. Allow my cable to provide me with an HD DVR Box
$15 more than my current bill / month.
Total: $15 dollars to get started and $540 total for 3 years

So my point: I can save $769 dollars if I concede to work with crappy cable box interface.

Surely you've got a better way. I am relying on you, TiVo. Help me out.

Sincerely,
A Devoted Fan who also has bills to pay.

[synch22]

sorry we will miss you. I splurged for the series 3 last weekend. Get on or keep riding with the series 2. It is a great box, and although expensive worth the cost imo. Have fun with the cable DVR.

The series 3 is a luxury item, you dont have to have it.

[Bierboy]

...$60 for installation of said cable cards, $49.99 for the USB Cable.... :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Leo_N]

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Just what I was thinking. Not much you can do about a $60 install charge, but $50 for a USB cable, that dude needs to head to monoprice.com STAT!

I also feel bad about the $7/month for 2 cable cards, I pay $6/month for 4 of them.

[fritolayguy]

Just what I was thinking. Not much you can do about a $60 install charge, but $50 for a USB cable, that dude needs to head to monoprice.com STAT!

I also feel bad about the $7/month for 2 cable cards, I pay $6/month for 4 of them.

I want to get into the USB cable and mobile phone accessory business. Have a friend that paid, gulp..., $79.99 for the "genuine Motorola" replacement battery for his phone. (Seen on e-bay for $11.00 shipped)

Yikes... :eek:

[pl1]

Just what I was thinking. Not much you can do about a $60 install charge, but $50 for a USB cable, that dude needs to head to monoprice.com STAT!.Of course, you could get really sucked in like I did and buy a $120 Monster cable before coming out of the ether like I did. I did return it. BTW, to the OP, the TiVo Includes an HDMI cable and a component cable.

[SugarBowl]

"lifetime transfer" and "rabbit ears"

[DeathRider]

If I got the cable DVR:
$12.95/month x36 = $466.20

My TiVo S3 costs:
Purchase price: $669
LT = $199
TiVo G adapter: $50
CableCard install: $0
CableCard rental: $1.50/month x2 = $3.00 x36 = $108
Free 1 year of service on my S2 = $6.95x12 = (-)$83.4
Total: $942.6

Technically less, since a 12 month sub is more per month...

Technically, you still have 2 days to transfer a Lifetime sub to a S3...


Everybody's costs will be different. Even my cable costs are less than many here :rolleyes:

Just what I was thinking. Not much you can do about a $60 install charge, but $50 for a USB cable, that dude needs to head to monoprice.com STAT!


I think he meant the TiVo wireless G adapter. no other reason I can think of of needing a usb cable, since it has built in ethernet.

[Joegold]

You should probably get it when TiVo drops prices on their box. Its a great machine. The best time to buy if your a good shopper was when they offered lifetime. A friend of mine has a TiVo with lifetime. He got the box off eBay for $615 got a Phillips S1 w/ lifetime for $125 (not on ebay) and lifetime transfer for $215 from TiVo (after taxes). He then sold the Philips with the one year subscription for $125 on eBay. So his total investment was $830. At this price its actually more cost effective than the cable company.

[Maeglin]

I wish I could feel some sympathy, but $50 for a USB cable? You can go into any computer or office supply store and get a much better deal...

[DeathRider]

I wish I could feel some sympathy, but $50 for a USB cable? You can go into any computer or office supply store and get a much better deal...

I think BJ's has a pack of 3 6' cables for less than $15. As long as you don't mind different colors...

[GoHokies!]

I'm confused why the OP needs a USB cable in the first place. Is anyone else using the USB ports on their S3 for anything?

The other thing is at the end of 3 years with the cable company DVR you have nothing to show for it. If you buy the S3 you at least have a piece of electronics that has some value to it on your hands. That and it's completely worth the extra ~$800 over the course of the 3 years (about 20 bucks a month) to have a MUCH better DVR than the random lottery you have with the cable company.

Maybe he'll get lucky and get a decent DVR. Bottom line is if you want the premium toys, you have to pay the price. If you're content with a mediocre (at best) product, then good for you.

[pl1]

I'm confused why the OP needs a USB cable in the first place. Is anyone else using the USB ports on their S3 for anything?I kind of assumed it was an HDMI cable. I could have assumed wrong.

[fkingpsuce]

I just moved into the HD age and made the switch from DTV to my local cable company JUST so I could stay with TiVo, eventho it is easily costing me 400-500 more than the comparable setup from DTV. For me it's about brand loyalty. Without TiVo we'd still be using VCRs. :-D

[GoHokies!]

I kind of assumed it was an HDMI cable. I could have assumed wrong.
The HDMI cable that comes free inside the box?

(that isn't intended as a slag on you - if that's part of the justification that the OP is using, then maybe he'll re-evaluate)

[kemcg]

I bought a Series3 before the vip deadline. But I haven't transferred it yet (2 more days). I am scared of SDV. Yes, it is a great player, but not if it can't get the new HD channels why have it? Frankly, I am still undecided. I have Comcast, so I should be able to get the Tivo interface on their machines and all the channels, but I would really rather remain completely loyal to Tivo. SDV is making that hard.

[pl1]

The HDMI cable that comes free inside the box?

(that isn't intended as a slag on you - if that's part of the justification that the OP is using, then maybe he'll re-evaluate)Yeah, that's what I was trying to point out. I didn't want to say free, since there will be a whole discussion about how it isn't free. :o

[Leo_N]

I'm confused why the OP needs a USB cable in the first place. Is anyone else using the USB ports on their S3 for anything?

Aren't the USB ports how people are hooking up wireless? Unless of course you go with the wireless bridge method.

[pl1]

I bought a Series3 before the vip deadline. But I haven't transferred it yet (2 more days). I am scared of SDV. Yes, it is a great player, but not if it can't get the new HD channels why have it? Frankly, I am still undecided. I have Comcast, so I should be able to get the Tivo interface on their machines and all the channels, but I would really rather remain completely loyal to Tivo. SDV is making that hard.I have one S3 that is strictly analog cable and Over The Air antenna, and if I got stuck with just that, I could live with it. Maybe supplemented with an STB if I needed it for premiums. (Good reason to keep my S2 handy.)

[squiredogs]

keep the S2, forget the S3. Let stand-alone TiVo's die their (tivo-desired) death, and get a Comcast-TiVo later in the year. Then Comcast and Tivo can't say that the other is at fault. You won't overpay for your DVR, and won't be stuck if it craps out. Cablecard, SDV, and all the other worries won't be yours. Life will be nice and easy, which was the reason so many of us loved TiVo in the first place.

I made my commitment, transferring my lifetime to the buggy S3. I'm stuck. But if I had to do it over again, I'd probably suck it up with a comcast box, my lifetimed s2 and wait it out.

[aine]

The other thing is at the end of 3 years with the cable company DVR you have nothing to show for it. If you buy the S3 you at least have a piece of electronics that has some value to it on your hands.
If it lasts that long, sure.

The counterargument to this is that you DO own it. Meaning, if it breaks after 12 months, you're faced with another $600 to replace it, the hassle of transferring your subscription, etc. If the Cable Co's box breaks, you call them and they give you another one for free.

It's a different value proposition that any other piece of electronics that you buy (computer, dvd player, tv, whatever) because there is no "free" alternative for those.

Now, if TiVo would throw in a 3-year warranty when you purchase the 3-year subscription, then we'd be talking.

I'll stick with my Series2 for now.

[davecramer74]

The other thing is at the end of 3 years with the cable company DVR you have nothing to show for it. If you buy the S3 you at least have a piece of electronics that has some value to it on your hands.

ya but i get free upgrades. ive already got one this year. And id have to argue about the value of your s3 3 years from now. How much are the 3 year old tivo's going for? they are free now with a subscription arent they?

[Bierboy]

...And id have to argue about the value of your s3 3 years from now....I dunno...I'm looking at eBay prices of the Sony DHG units (that are approaching two years old, now) and many prices are still pretty high -- $650 to $800. They seem to be retaining their value pretty well....and all that with a lousy interface and lousy program guide.

[DeathRider]

I'm confused why the OP needs a USB cable in the first place. Is anyone else using the USB ports on their S3 for anything?


Wireless G adapter.

Wish I could plug in a USB keyboard at times when inputting long convoluted urls for podcasts :(

[aaronwt]

Even if Comcast paid me, i wouldn't use their DVR. I purchased three Series 3 boxes and they have been nearly flawless. I'd rather pay to use the S3 than for Comcast to pay me to use their boxes, which of course they wouldn't. You have to pay Cocmast which definitely isn't worth it.
My brother has a couple of Comcast HD DVR boxes and he misses more recordings in one month than I have in 5 years of using TiVos. He has to schedule duplicate recordings on his PC because he never knows if the DVR will record properly.

Dear TiVo;

What can I say? I looks as though I may have to move on without you. Don't get me wrong - you have been my faithful companion for nearly 4 years now, recording my every show and providing me with hours and hours of entertainment pleasure... but it appears as though your time has come.

You see - you've just become too much of a burden.

Now, mind you, I will keep your series 2 with lifetime service in a back bedroom. I will use that series 2 occasionally to tape and watch some shows, but it won't get the same attention as before.

I'm about to move into the high definition age. HD is the next logical step in television and unfortunately you, TiVo, aren't making that transition easy. You see, here are my options:

#1. Upgrade to TiVo Series 3:
$649 for series 3 TiVo Box (when I find a good deal), $299 for three years service, $7/mo to the cable company for the 2 cable cards, $60 for installation of said cable cards, $49.99 for the USB Cable.
Total: $1058 to get started and $1309 total for 3 years

#2. Allow my cable to provide me with an HD DVR Box
$15 more than my current bill / month.
Total: $15 dollars to get started and $540 total for 3 years

So my point: I can save $769 dollars if I concede to work with crappy cable box interface.

Surely you've got a better way. I am relying on you, TiVo. Help me out.

Sincerely,
A Devoted Fan who also has bills to pay.

[Deacon West]

keep the S2, forget the S3. Let stand-alone TiVo's die their (tivo-desired) death, and get a Comcast-TiVo later in the year. Then Comcast and Tivo can't say that the other is at fault. You won't overpay for your DVR, and won't be stuck if it craps out. Cablecard, SDV, and all the other worries won't be yours. Life will be nice and easy, which was the reason so many of us loved TiVo in the first place.

I made my commitment, transferring my lifetime to the buggy S3. I'm stuck. But if I had to do it over again, I'd probably suck it up with a comcast box, my lifetimed s2 and wait it out.

If you really don't like it, then sell your lifetimed S3 on ebay. You could make pretty good money now or wait and when the lifetime transfer deal is done this week, I think you'll see even higher prices.

[GoHokies!]

If it lasts that long, sure.

The counterargument to this is that you DO own it. Meaning, if it breaks after 12 months, you're faced with another $600 to replace it, the hassle of transferring your subscription, etc. If the Cable Co's box breaks, you call them and they give you another one for free.

It's a different value proposition that any other piece of electronics that you buy (computer, dvd player, tv, whatever) because there is no "free" alternative for those.

Now, if TiVo would throw in a 3-year warranty when you purchase the 3-year subscription, then we'd be talking.

I'll stick with my Series2 for now.
Buy it at Costco and get at least 2 years. There really isn't all that much to break other than a hard drive, and that's pretty easily user-replaceable.

I'll admit, I forgot about wireless, but I've not seen any of those that require a cable (except the Tivo one, and that comes with a cable).

Dave, you're looking at the S2 argument all wrong. Does anyone remember when the first S2 was released and how much it was selling for 3 years later? I'll bet it was still a pretty penny. What about the S1 for the real old timers?

[squiredogs]

If you really don't like it, then sell your lifetimed S3 on ebay. You could make pretty good money now or wait and when the lifetime transfer deal is done this week, I think you'll see even higher prices.

If there are ComcastTivos out to test soon, I might just do that.

[larrs]

I bought a Series3 before the vip deadline. But I haven't transferred it yet (2 more days). I am scared of SDV. Yes, it is a great player, but not if it can't get the new HD channels why have it? Frankly, I am still undecided. I have Comcast, so I should be able to get the Tivo interface on their machines and all the channels, but I would really rather remain completely loyal to Tivo. SDV is making that hard.
Transfer the lifetime, enjoy the Tivo. If you need to sell it, you'll make out OK with the lifetime service.

[jimest]

Time Warner cable charges $7.95 DVR service for each DVR and $7.95 for the first DVR rental and $5.28 for the second DVR rental for a total of $29.13 for 2 DVR's

Jim

[moyekj]

Wow, no class action lawsuits or open threats that I expected to see when seeing the thread title - how disappointing! ;)

[CosmoGeek]

keep the S2, forget the S3. Let stand-alone TiVo's die their (tivo-desired) death, and get a Comcast-TiVo later in the year. Then Comcast and Tivo can't say that the other is at fault. You won't overpay for your DVR, and won't be stuck if it craps out. Cablecard, SDV, and all the other worries won't be yours. Life will be nice and easy, which was the reason so many of us loved TiVo in the first place.

I made my commitment, transferring my lifetime to the buggy S3. I'm stuck. But if I had to do it over again, I'd probably suck it up with a comcast box, my lifetimed s2 and wait it out.

This is exactly how I see it also. I wanted an HD TiVo so bad that I just hoped that the bugs would get solved with 8.1. Now I too am stuck with a lifetimed buggy S3 that won't be able to handle SDV. Best hope for me is for the Comcast/TiVo to be free of the audio dropout/pixelization problem.

I think the best advice today, given the known issues, is to get, and limp along with, a Comcast HD-DVR to suppliment your S2, and then get the Comcast/Tivo DVR. If you do get an S3, get it from Costco or just plan to make sure it is bug free before your return period runs out. Don't assume that any issues you can't fix within 30 days will ever get solved. That is the mistake I made.

[Kablemodem]

I just moved into the HD age and made the switch from DTV to my local cable company JUST so I could stay with TiVo, eventho it is easily costing me 400-500 more than the comparable setup from DTV. For me it's about brand loyalty. Without TiVo we'd still be using VCRs. :-D

Yo tambien.

[squiredogs]

The next question will be when will I be able to sell a lifetimed s3 and still make a good buck, with the shortest wait time for the ComcastTivo? I'm dissapointed in the S3, but I know darn well it's the best DVR interface, period. I want to get good value for the lifetimed S3, but a long time with a Comcast DVR could be civil war in my home!

Slight disclaimer - I'm a Mac user, so most of the "extras" I'd get from an S3 are garbage or "coming soon." I want to record HD and have the TiVo interface. Other than what will surely be less storage, I'm probably just as well off. PC folk who are into TiVo to Go, the TiVo desktop, etc. will still want to get lucky with an S3.

[dolcevita]

I bought a Series3 before the vip deadline. But I haven't transferred it yet (2 more days). I am scared of SDV. Yes, it is a great player, but not if it can't get the new HD channels why have it? Frankly, I am still undecided. I have Comcast, so I should be able to get the Tivo interface on their machines and all the channels, but I would really rather remain completely loyal to Tivo. SDV is making that hard.

I'm in the same spot and the clock is ticking. Bought an S3 before the deadline from Costco, but have not yet opened the box, set up the system or transferred lifetime -- mainly because I've been traveling a LOT on business as usual and have had other more pressing priorities when home.

The only thing that spurred me to buy the S3 was the VIP lifetime transfer. But after reading about all the bugs and glitches for months now...not to mention $1200 in veterinary bills this past month...I am seriously thinking about just returning the S3 to Costco and leaving that lifetime on the S2.

Time to ask my favorite question when faced with a tough decision -- "which are you more likely to regret?"

[squiredogs]

I'm in the same spot and the clock is ticking. Bought an S3 before the deadline from Costco, but have not yet opened the box, set up the system or transferred lifetime -- mainly because I've been traveling a LOT on business as usual and have had other more pressing priorities when home.

The only thing that spurred me to buy the S3 was the VIP lifetime transfer. But after reading about all the bugs and glitches for months now...not to mention $1200 in veterinary bills this past month...I am seriously thinking about just returning the S3 to Costco and leaving that lifetime on the S2.

Time to ask my favorite question when faced with a tough decision -- "which are you more likely to regret?"

I hear ya about the vet - we're a 3 (old) dog house... If you get an S3 working well, you'll love it. I was so impressed, that I transferred lifetime within the first weekend. All my problems just started with 8.1. The SDV issue wouldn't even bug me too much, except some people on here tell me it's coming in months, rather than years.

I will say this - IF I get an update that cures the pixelization/audio dropout bugs from 8.1 soon, and I can get some kind of SDV workaround (box or software) down the road that would equal a perfectly working S3, I'm all for sticking with it.

I'm bummed about the Lifetime going away with my S3, but I thought that it may be a good move in case an S2 doesn't work after the switch to digital in 2009. Who knows? This is taking too much time and effort. The whole idea of TiVo, to me anyway, is to make the most of your free time, and have fun with TV. Hopefully it will work out.

[kido]

for me, ownership and flexibility are what decided it for me to buy a S3. prices on ebay for lifetime units have stayed high, and in a couple of days, no new s3 will be available causing the supply side of the equation to become fixed. maybe sdv or iptv, or some other tech comes down the road to make the s3 less valuable to cable consumers, but there is a whole bunch of people, like myself, that are enjoying OTA HD.

this gives me the flexibility to dump cable all together, or drop my service from digital to analog. the cable cards let me shop around when competing cable companies come to my area. and i can do this without losing my saved records, or having to learn a new interface for the dvr. pretty soon i'll be able to rent/buy videos from amazon.

it's your choice, but for me the choice was easy.

[sjcbulldog]

I think that the bigger threat to Tivo is media center. I know this is likely to get under the skin of those very loyal Tivo users, but I am one of those very loyal Tivo users. I have had Series 2 boxes for each of my TVs for several years. When the Series 3 came out I bought one right away. However, I have recently started playing with Vista Media Center with a tuner and OTA stations and it is pretty nice. This is especially true after playing with my XBOX 360 as a Media Center Extender. Add to this, the addins that can be written with the media center SDK and it makes for a real nice system. With the introduction of Vista boxes that take cable cards, this box will be a real threat for Tivo.

I especially like the My Movies addin that allows me to store all of the DVDs that I own on disk so that they are accessible via the XBOX 360 in the family room. This means my 7 year old does not have to handle (scratch) the DVDs to watch movies. In addition, I can store my home videos and when the grandparents come over the videos of the kids all all available at the touch of a remote.

All in all, I have stayed with the series 2 in the family room and am using the XBOX 360 as a media center extender until I see if reasonably priced Vista boxes will arrive with cable card slots.

Just my $0.02 worth
Sjcbulldog

[sjcbulldog]

Oh yea, and there is no monthly fee for the media center (just your cable bill).

[synch22]

I'm in the same spot and the clock is ticking. Bought an S3 before the deadline from Costco, but have not yet opened the box, set up the system or transferred lifetime -- mainly because I've been traveling a LOT on business as usual and have had other more pressing priorities when home.

The only thing that spurred me to buy the S3 was the VIP lifetime transfer. But after reading about all the bugs and glitches for months now...not to mention $1200 in veterinary bills this past month...I am seriously thinking about just returning the S3 to Costco and leaving that lifetime on the S2.

Time to ask my favorite question when faced with a tough decision -- "which are you more likely to regret?"


Dolce,

You can see one of my earlier posts last week, I had 3k+ in vet bills in Jan as well. Looks like we were in similiar posiiton. Only i said what the heck is another $900 and I am glad I did. Its a great system, and I would rather have loyalty and support tivo than get the comcast box and live with it because its cheap. Just my opinion.

[GoHokies!]

Oh yea, and there is no monthly fee for the media center (just your cable bill).
Good luck getting any encrypted channels in HD with that setup!

With regards to the buggy S3, look through all of the polls here in the S3 forum before you speak. The vast majority of them indicate that an overwhelming number of people responding to the polls are having either no or very few problems with their S3. If you're unit in particular is one of the unlucky few that has one of the bugs being discussed, yes, it sucks - but if you're reported it to Tivo, its most likely being worked on. I understand that doesn't help much now, but you're likely not going to be stuck with a buggy DVR forever.

I would even go so far to make the assessment that the S3 isn't any buggier than the S2 (with the possible exception of Cable Card problems, but that's your cable companies problem to solve, not Tivo) and much more stable than just about any Cable Company DVR on the market. (but I recognize that I don't have any data to back that up)

[DeathRider]

Let stand-alone TiVo's die their (tivo-desired) death, and get a Comcast-TiVo later in the year. Then Comcast and Tivo can't say that the other is at fault. You won't overpay for your DVR, and won't be stuck if it craps out.

No, but I'd rather not overpay for my cable (Comcrap) :D ;)

[squiredogs]

No, but I'd rather not overpay for my cable (Comcrap) :D ;)

hehe... true that. But you can't get any TiVo with satellite now, so people like me who have no shot at OTA are stuck there too. Believe me, I'm not a huge Comcast fan. Like them working with TiVo though.

dream case scenario would be getting actual TiVo hardware (not Motorola) through Comcast. That would be sweet.

[dbenrosen]

I would even go so far to make the assessment that the S3 isn't any buggier than the S2

It certainly is buggier than my S1 I've had for 7 years.

(with the possible exception of Cable Card problems, but that's your cable companies problem to solve, not Tivo) and much more stable than just about any Cable Company DVR on the market. (but I recognize that I don't have any data to back that up)

The CableCARD problems are not just the cable company's problem, it's a finger pointing problem. Their are three parties involved in this problem, TiVo, the cable co and the card manufacturer. Each one could blame the other and I'm stuck in the middle.

I know my problem isn't a defective TiVo as I've had the problem with two different units. I know it isn't defective/bad cablecards as I've had the same problem with 8 different cards. It isn't just the cable co because a reboot of the TiVo fixes the problem. It's some combination.

In this scenario, the card manufacturer knows nothing as I have no way of interacting with them. The Cable co has no real way to debug the problem as everything seems fine on their end. That leaves TiVo.

I know that TiVo is working with my cable company to try to remedy the situation and I know that the cable company really wants this problem fixed (I know from dealings with different people from both companies), which is why I haven't give up on the S3 already.

But the problem I am having is not just the cable company's problem.

[DeathRider]

No, but I'd rather not overpay for my cable (Comcrap) :D ;)
hehe... true that. But you can't get any TiVo with satellite now, so people like me who have no shot at OTA are stuck there too. Believe me, I'm not a huge Comcast fan. Like them working with TiVo though.

dream case scenario would be getting actual TiVo hardware (not Motorola) through Comcast. That would be sweet.

I was referring to RCN vs Comcast. I can get either in my area. ;)

Hopefully soon, FIOS will be available as well.

As for sat, a friend of mine, who is an audio/video aficionado, got DTV. I remarked, "I hope you're enjoying your HDLite." In all his infinite wisdom, didn't know :eek: :D

[Leo_N]

It certainly is buggier than my S1 I've had for 7 years.



The CableCARD problems are not just the cable company's problem, it's a finger pointing problem. Their are three parties involved in this problem, TiVo, the cable co and the card manufacturer. Each one could blame the other and I'm stuck in the middle.

I know my problem isn't a defective TiVo as I've had the problem with two different units. I know it isn't defective/bad cablecards as I've had the same problem with 8 different cards. It isn't just the cable co because a reboot of the TiVo fixes the problem. It's some combination.

In this scenario, the card manufacturer knows nothing as I have no way of interacting with them. The Cable co has no real way to debug the problem as everything seems fine on their end. That leaves TiVo.

I know that TiVo is working with my cable company to try to remedy the situation and I know that the cable company really wants this problem fixed (I know from dealings with different people from both companies), which is why I haven't give up on the S3 already.

But the problem I am having is not just the cable company's problem.

Tivo probably has some things to fix with regards to cablecard -> Tivohardware elegance wise, but cablecard has been known to be a VERY buggy technology long before the S3 came out. I'd venture to say the S3 works better with cablecards than the mass variety of TVs. The only reason we haven't heard that much is people who could afford the larger TVs that had cablecard slots were already ponying up for STBs from cable or were using satellite.

[hddude55]

It turns out he is posting amusing messages here. Glad to here you are still kickin, Chuckster! Sounds like you are watching too much TV and not getting enough exercise, though. Hope you enjoy that Scientific Atlanta HD recorder. Mine made a great paper weight. Now I have a series 3 and I'm watching waaaay too much TV, too. Bring me some fresh popcorn when you have a chance.

P.S. You are one funny guy Chuck but we all know what you posted here about the installation and monthly cable card costs was pure BS. Keep smiling through that face paint.

[bk406]

The series 3 is a luxury item, you dont have to have it.
No truer words written. Yes, the price will go down eventually. The folks like us who bought these this early either really like tivo, have money to burn, or both. I cant help it if i have a ton of disposable income.

[davecramer74]

Good luck getting any encrypted channels in HD with that setup!

the new pc's coming out have cable card slots. Ati is making the readers.

http://ati.amd.com/products/tvwonderdigital/index.html

thats the external add on. they make internal ones as well.

[CosmoGeek]

With regards to the buggy S3, look through all of the polls here in the S3 forum before you speak. The vast majority of them indicate that an overwhelming number of people responding to the polls are having either no or very few problems with their S3. If you're unit in particular is one of the unlucky few that has one of the bugs being discussed, yes, it sucks - but if you're reported it to Tivo, its most likely being worked on. I understand that doesn't help much now, but you're likely not going to be stuck with a buggy DVR forever.

I would even go so far to make the assessment that the S3 isn't any buggier than the S2 (with the possible exception of Cable Card problems, but that's your cable companies problem to solve, not Tivo) and much more stable than just about any Cable Company DVR on the market. (but I recognize that I don't have any data to back that up)

Well I didn't look at all of the polls but this poll indicates that less than 30% of 150 respondents don't suffer from the "audio dropout + pixelization" problem and the vast majority of those that have another device to compare to, are only seeing the problem on the S3.

?t=340985 (I can't post a URL so just replace everything after and including the question mark on your current URL with this)

In my case the S3 has had a few issues, including this "audio dropout + pixelization" problem, while my S2 never had any bugs since 2001 that I recall (not counting the two HDs that died).

[TexasAg]

Good luck getting any encrypted channels in HD with that setup!

To add to that, unless something changes, you probably will never be able to get encrypted HD channels if your cable company plays tough. Under the rules, you can only get CableCards installed in "CableLabs approved devices." That means that folks likely won't be able to build their own boxes using parts from ATI or others that can use CableCards. You'd be forced to buy complete systems from vendors like Dell, and the vendors would likely need to get CableLabs approval for their systems before the cable companies can be forced to install cards in them.

[CosmoGeek]

Good luck getting any encrypted channels in HD with that setup!
Or SDV content with that setup or the S3.

[davecramer74]

Or SDV content with that setup or the S3.

thus why i wont buy one. I was just posting that you can get HD encrypted channels on the new media center pc's coming out.

[retired_guy]

I've got some audio dropout and pixelization problems with 8.1, but I also had a prior year's experience with the Comcast box with IGuide, and as a result of that experience am still very happy I made the decision to buy a Series3. In fact, I increased my investment recently by putting in a 768GB disk.

It is a luxury box since one has to make a large upfront investment, although it's not clear that for the longer term it'll be much more expensive, if any. Comcast tends to increase rates over time and the resale value of TiVo boxes has been good.

[DeathRider]

The series 3 is a luxury item, you dont have to have it.

So is cable/sat TV:D

[gwar9999]

I was a 6-year S1 customer. I too decided to jump into the HD age and based on the price difference, I opted for the cable HD DVR. Well, after 2 months of suffering with that piece of crap Scientific Atlanta called a DVR I ran back to Tivo! Fortunately, in that 2 month timeframe, the S3 price dropped from $799 to about $649 so I saved a bit in the process even though I paid dearly in terms of frustrations for 2 months with the SA DVR.

You can read my full review of the SA DVR at: http://www.phil-schwartz.com/reviews/cox_sciatlanta_8300hd/index.html

Bottom line, the best sales pitch for the Tivo S3 was the SA DVR!

[dbenrosen]

Tivo probably has some things to fix with regards to cablecard -> Tivohardware elegance wise, but cablecard has been known to be a VERY buggy technology long before the S3 came out. I'd venture to say the S3 works better with cablecards than the mass variety of TVs. The only reason we haven't heard that much is people who could afford the larger TVs that had cablecard slots were already ponying up for STBs from cable or were using satellite.

I think the reason you don't have the TV-CableCARD issue like I am having is that turning off the device fixes the problem. Most TVs aren't on 24/7 like the TiVo. I've NEVER had the problem happen while I am watching Live TV. It has failed long before that.

[Leo_N]

I think the reason you don't have the TV-CableCARD issue like I am having is that turning off the device fixes the problem. Most TVs aren't on 24/7 like the TiVo. I've NEVER had the problem happen while I am watching Live TV. It has failed long before that.

Actually I was talking more about the problem of cable companies not being able to get cablecards to work in some TVs at all. Not the finicky thing the S3 has going with cablecards. If you read through some of the cable-company specific cablecard threads you will note how there are quite a few where installers told people that they have had very bad experiences installing cablecards, and this was before any techs had even tried on a S3.

[sjcbulldog]

Good luck getting any encrypted channels in HD with that setup!

With regards to the buggy S3, look through all of the polls here in the S3 forum before you speak. The vast majority of them indicate that an overwhelming number of people responding to the polls are having either no or very few problems with their S3. If you're unit in particular is one of the unlucky few that has one of the bugs being discussed, yes, it sucks - but if you're reported it to Tivo, its most likely being worked on. I understand that doesn't help much now, but you're likely not going to be stuck with a buggy DVR forever.

I would even go so far to make the assessment that the S3 isn't any buggier than the S2 (with the possible exception of Cable Card problems, but that's your cable companies problem to solve, not Tivo) and much more stable than just about any Cable Company DVR on the market. (but I recognize that I don't have any data to back that up)

A couple of clarifications ..

1)
Cable card ready PCs will be showing up real soon now. This will allow for encrypted HD content from cable. Microsoft took the same approach as did Tivo for getting access to HD content.

2)
I like the features of the Media Center over the features of the Tivo Series 3. I never said that the Series 3 is buggy. As a matter of fact, my Series 3 has been rock solid. It is missing features that exist on the Series 2 that I really like and that also exist on the Media Center.

3)
Finally I believe the resources applied to this by Microsoft and in the third party domain are considerably larger than what is being applied to Tivo. May lead to some problems for Tivo in the long run.

In summary, I am happy with my Series 3 Tivo. I wish I could watch video from my PC streamed to my Series 3 but I hear that is coming. However, it exists now for Media Center and with the additional things I see on Media Center (XBOX 360 Media Center Extender, My Movies plugins, SDKs for writing new plugs ins, etc). I think Media Center is a real threat for Tivo.

Just my $0.02 worth
sjcbulldog

[TexasAg]

1)
Cable card ready PCs will be showing up real soon now. This will allow for encrypted HD content from cable. Microsoft took the same approach as did Tivo for getting access to HD content.


Anybody know whether these devices will technically be "CableLabs appoved"? The cable companies are under no obligation to provide CableCards to unapproved devices. I'm just wondering if these device will be capable of doing something, but the cable companies won't provide the cards for actually doing it.

[AbMagFab]

So, you'll spend multi-thousands on an HDTV, but not an extra ~500 on the main thing that you'll watch on it?

Wow.

Nose, watch out... Face is getting spited...

[astrohip]

So my point: I can save $769 dollars if I concede to work with crappy cable box interface.
I won't argue your point, as it's your opinion. And I can't argue dollars, since everyone pays different amounts for cable, OTA, cards, etc. But I can address this: "crappy cable box interface. It comes down to what you are willing to put up with, at what price. Everything is a luxury but food & shelter. Cable is one luxury, and DVRs are a step higher. A TiVo is higher up the scale than a cableco DVR; hence for most, it costs more. Is it worth it? Only you can answer that.

I have both, and simply refuse to use the SA8300HD as my primary DVR. I have made the decision to spend some of my earnings on a TiVo. Life (for me) is too short to put up with cableco DVRs. YMMV.

FWIW, my S3 is 99.999% trouble free. I've had one missed recording in 3-4 months, and that's it. I know others have problems, but not all of us do.

Edit: As to your letter to TiVo, what do you want them to do? They have already released an HD DVR that does what we want, and exceeds the usability of most other DVRs by a factor of 2 or 3. Your main issue in your letter was money. You might as well send a letter to BMW berating them for their expensive cars, when you can get a cableco car... whoops, I mean a GEO, for half the price. I drive a 550i, and have received more than I expected in terms of value for $$$ spent. But you can find a car for less :)

[GoHokies!]

It certainly is buggier than my S1 I've had for 7 years.

Really? A 6 month old product is buggier than a 7+ year old technology? Say it isn't so?

the new pc's coming out have cable card slots. Ati is making the readers.

http://ati.amd.com/products/tvwonderdigital/index.html

thats the external add on. they make internal ones as well.

And while you're sitting around waiting for that to come out, I'll have been enjoying my S3 for 6 months and counting. Wait, what's this???
Anybody know whether these devices will technically be "CableLabs appoved"? The cable companies are under no obligation to provide CableCards to unapproved devices. I'm just wondering if these device will be capable of doing something, but the cable companies won't provide the cards for actually doing it.Looks like you may not get those channels after all...

Or SDV content with that setup or the S3.
And while you sit around worried about something that isn't going to be in widespread in existance for months (if not years), I'll have been enjoying my S3 for 6 months and counting.

[bareyb]

Dear TiVo;
I'm about to move into the high definition age. HD is the next logical step in television and unfortunately you, TiVo, aren't making that transition easy. You see, here are my options:



OHHHHH!!!!! You are ABOUT to move into the high definition age? :D

Which means you haven't had to use the Cable companies POS DVR yet... Trust me. You are going to HATE it. Then you will be faced with the same choice as the rest of us. Keep the POS or ante up and get back to TiVo so you can enjoy your new HDTV to it's fullest.

The Comcast box I have here is a constant irritant to use. I expect if it was my only choice (and there was no TiVo alternative) I'd be gone to Dish Network since I hear they have a better box than the cable co's. The DVR is the most important part of the equation once you have a good HDTV.

In the mean time, I go wherever TIVo goes. I didn't spent 7 grand on a new TV just so I could have a WORSE viewing experience. TV is the one device I use every day besides my Coffee maker. I don't skimp on TV and I don't skimp on Coffee makers! :D

Good luck and let us know how it goes. Your letter to TiVo will have no effect and please know, that we will always be here and welcome you back with open arms. You wouldn't be the first to leave and come back. It's okay. We understand... We really do... Some things in life are just too damn expensive and in fact are really unnecessary. HDTV and TiVo are two of them. It is my contention that you need both to truly enjoy the HDTV experience. Especially if you are already a fan of TiVo. Anything else is just a constant reminder of how good you USED to have it.

[fcorey]

Dear TiVo;

What can I say? I looks as though I may have to move on without you. Don't get me wrong - you have been my faithful companion for nearly 4 years now, recording my every show and providing me with hours and hours of entertainment pleasure... but it appears as though your time has come.

You see - you've just become too much of a burden.

Now, mind you, I will keep your series 2 with lifetime service in a back bedroom. I will use that series 2 occasionally to tape and watch some shows, but it won't get the same attention as before.

I'm about to move into the high definition age. HD is the next logical step in television and unfortunately you, TiVo, aren't making that transition easy. You see, here are my options:

#1. Upgrade to TiVo Series 3:
$649 for series 3 TiVo Box (when I find a good deal), $299 for three years service, $7/mo to the cable company for the 2 cable cards, $60 for installation of said cable cards, $49.99 for the USB Cable.
Total: $1058 to get started and $1309 total for 3 years

#2. Allow my cable to provide me with an HD DVR Box
$15 more than my current bill / month.
Total: $15 dollars to get started and $540 total for 3 years

So my point: I can save $769 dollars if I concede to work with crappy cable box interface.

Surely you've got a better way. I am relying on you, TiVo. Help me out.

Sincerely,
A Devoted Fan who also has bills to pay.

I know how you feel, I upgraded our TV to a nice Panasonic Plasma...after trying a Vizio LCD first and returning it...

Lets face it, SD signals dont look that great on some HD televisions. Currently we have a 200hour directivo, and an SA8300HD from Comcast. Got the Comcast box last week. I thought that I could just deal with it. Its really my only HD choice.

I cannot get HD satellite without having a pole installed and the antenna jacked up to clear my neighbors home. Our current location just cant lock in on HD signals. So even the Directv Hr20 isnt an option

So I bit the bullet and got the Comcast box. Boy oh boy is that interface garbage. After having a directivo for 6yrs its really painful. If we never had tivo I probably would think its ok, but i cant help but feel like I am taking a step back. Even the HD signals from that are not too impressive, over the air HD looks better!

I thought that we'd just deal with it, at least that was my plan...then after the 5th day my wife threw in the towel, it missed several recordings in that 5 days, and she could never get the hang of its interface. The series 3 box will be here tomorrow, Comcast is coming back Monday to pickup the box and install the cablecards. I am sure it will be great. But the price is bothering me, even if I didnt pay for it.

The monthly fee is what it is, I pay a monthly fee to DirecTV now, but add the monthly cablecard fees etc....its definitely VERY expensive. It makes me worry about the longevity of Tivo as a company, HD is becoming mainstream and they really just seem to be pricing themselves out of the market. I hope I am wrong.

[bareyb]

SNIP.......
I thought that we'd just deal with it, at least that was my plan...then after the 5th day my wife threw in the towel, it (the comcast box) missed several recordings in that 5 days, and she could never get the hang of its interface. The series 3 box will be here tomorrow...

Welcome back my friend. I tried and I tried to like the Comcast box, but once you go TiVo it's hard to go anywhere else. Keep in mind that future Comcast boxes will run TIVo software, so a box not unlike the DirecTivo boxes you were used to are in our future and will likely be much cheaper than what we are doing now. But that's a ways away. In the meantime enjoy some of the money you work so hard for and enjoy the S3. You will be in Heaven compared to the Cableco box.

[davecramer74]

Anybody know whether these devices will technically be "CableLabs appoved"? The cable companies are under no obligation to provide CableCards to unapproved devices. I'm just wondering if these device will be capable of doing something, but the cable companies won't provide the cards for actually doing it.


Cable Labs- Certified™ CableCARD™ support
An OpenCable Unidirectional Receiver (OCUR), The ATI TV Wonder™ Digital Cable Tuner uses CableLabs Certified™ CableCARD™ technology to watch and record premium HD digital cable content on Windows Vista™ PCs. OpenCable certification ensures compatibility with U.S. digital cable networks, and offers technical excellence that delivers a superior entertainment experience on the PC.

[jmoak]

...Now I too am stuck with a lifetimed buggy S3 that won't be able to handle SDV. Awww, man. I feel for you.

I'll tell you what. I'll give you $500 cash for it so you'll never have to put up with that old buggy thing again.

Just let me know!

:)

[davecramer74]

And while you're sitting around waiting for that to come out



they are already out dude. here's a friggin sweet one:

http://www.velocitymicro.com/wizard.php?iid=96

[TexasAg]

Cable Labs- Certified™ CableCARD™ support
An OpenCable Unidirectional Receiver (OCUR), The ATI TV Wonder™ Digital Cable Tuner uses CableLabs Certified™ CableCARD™ technology to watch and record premium HD digital cable content on Windows Vista™ PCs. OpenCable certification ensures compatibility with U.S. digital cable networks, and offers technical excellence that delivers a superior entertainment experience on the PC.

This just says that the video card itself is certified. My understanding (and I could be wrong) is that the entire box needs to be certified.

[AgentMunroe]

I tried the 8300HD running SARA and hated it. Between it not being able to search for a recording (something I thought the most basic of DVRs could do), not discerning between similar episodes (causing it to fill itself up with 10 copies of the same show), a complete lack of any show management functions and the horrid transport controls (fast forwarding? better be psychic), I think I'll save enough time on the S3 in a year to pay for itself.

Not to mention I transferred lifetime, so if I ever change my mind, I'll probably be able to sell it off for more then I paid for it. (Assuming SDV doesn't kill it off, which is by far the thing most likely to kill it off...)

And yes, I realize that's a weak rationalization, but dammit, I like my TiVos. :-)

[GoHokies!]

they are already out dude. here's a friggin sweet one:

http://www.velocitymicro.com/wizard.php?iid=96
Since the OP was complaining about the cost of an S3, I doubt that he's intereted in a product that costs 3 times as much, "dude".

[davecramer74]

i just posted a link to a certified one. Also, sony, dell and gateway all showed them off at the e3 show. those hit the shelves this month as well.

[davecramer74]

Since the OP was complaining about the cost of an S3, I doubt that he's intereted in a product that costs 3 times as much, "dude".

well you shouldnt type when you dont know what your talking about "dude"

You say they arent available. You say that you cant watch hd tv on them. You basically are clueless from what i can tell. Quit being so bias'd toward your pos product and put out accurate information, ok? otherwise, quit posting. People come here for reliable information. There is nothing reliable about what you posted in this thread.

[TexasAg]

well you shouldnt type when you dont know what your talking about "dude"

Um, the OP was complaining about the price of the S3, and the product you linked to is 3 (closer to 4) times more expensive without any modifications. I think that's pretty simple to see, even for a "dude".

Quit being so bias'd toward your pos product

Now at least I know where you're coming from. Do you work for Comcast? :rolleyes:

[GoHokies!]

well you shouldnt type when you dont know what your talking about "dude"

You say they arent available. You say that you cant watch hd tv on them. You basically are clueless from what i can tell. Quit being so bias'd toward your pos product and put out accurate information, ok? otherwise, quit posting. People come here for reliable information. There is nothing reliable about what you posted in this thread.

I'm sorry that I must have missed that in the "niche products that cost a fortune" aisle when I was wandering around in Best Buy.

How am I any more biased that you are? Really, what is your point for being here? It's clear that you don't own an S3, have no intentions of ever buying one and just enjoy hanging around here and stirring up crap in every thread that you post in.

Why don't you just go back to watching your VOD with your vastly superior Comcast On Demand DVR that you get free for being a Comcast shill.

[davecramer74]

i see these forums have an ignore list, sweet. Goodbye hokies. at least i wont have to read your inaccurate information anymore.

[TexasAg]

at least i wont have to read your inaccurate information anymore.

Care to point out exactly where he gave "inaccurate information"? Maybe you work for Time Warner instead? :)

Actually, I am curious - do you even own an S3? Do you have any intention of ever getting an S3?

[davecramer74]

Actually, I am curious - do you even own an S3? Do you have any intention of ever getting an S3?

i had tivo's with my directv an sd and the hr10-250. I came here like anyone else, looking for info on the s3. Im not the finatic alot are on here. but with sdv being introduced this year for comcast, i probably wont be getting one now unless their prices go way down. i dont think its a pos, hokies just got on my nerves. That wont be a problem anymore. :) anyways, good discussions on here usually. Just a few that have a problem with me because i am happy with my comcrap dvr and VOD.

As for his inaccurate information. he said good luck getting encrypted hd and have fun waiting for them to come out. which there is no luck needed in getting encrypted HD and there is no wait for them to come out.

anyways, good luck to the original poster. My advice would be to get a cable dvr and wait for prices to drop on the s3 and the media pc's. Or, wait until they put the tivo stuff on the motorola's. thats my advice, nothing else.

[Bierboy]

...and just enjoy hanging around here and stirring up crap in every thread that you post in.........sniff.....sniff....sniff.....I smell a threadcrapper...........peeeeeeeew...

[pottsee]

yes the series 3 is expensive but the first time it records two HD OTA programs for you at once in beautiful 1080i you'll forget about the price. "Heroes or 24?" isn't a problem anymore!

[GoHokies!]

As for his inaccurate information. he said good luck getting encrypted hd and have fun waiting for them to come out. which there is no luck needed in getting encrypted HD and there is no wait for them to come out.

If you have thousands of dollars, which the OP doesn't have.

I'm glad you showed your maturity level, Dave. Get all pissy, and then hide behind the ignore list. :rolleyes:

Thanks for the assist, Tex. Glad there is some common sense remaining.

[CosmoGeek]

Awww, man. I feel for you.

I'll tell you what. I'll give you $500 cash for it so you'll never have to put up with that old buggy thing again.

Just let me know!

:)

Sorry man, I'm not selling it until I have something to take it's place.

I do enjoy my S3. I'm just frustrated that I don't get to have a perfect one like some of you. I'm also frustrated because TiVo was unable to fix my issue and is not letting us know what if anything they can, or are, going to do about it. Coming from an S2 I had high expectations. Yes it has dual tuners, yes it records when it is supposed to, yes it is easy to use, yes I have enjoyed it for over 5 months, but no it will not last as long as I had expected because of SDV, and no it is not the flawless design that my S2 was. I had my S2 for five years, but I am already looking forward to something that can replace my S3. When that day comes, then you can have my S3 for $500.

[fcorey]

i had tivo's with my directv an sd and the hr10-250. I came here like anyone else, looking for info on the s3. Im not the finatic alot are on here. but with sdv being introduced this year for comcast, i probably wont be getting one now unless their prices go way down. i dont think its a pos, hokies just got on my nerves. That wont be a problem anymore. :) anyways, good discussions on here usually. Just a few that have a problem with me because i am happy with my comcrap dvr and VOD.

As for his inaccurate information. he said good luck getting encrypted hd and have fun waiting for them to come out. which there is no luck needed in getting encrypted HD and there is no wait for them to come out.

anyways, good luck to the original poster. My advice would be to get a cable dvr and wait for prices to drop on the s3 and the media pc's. Or, wait until they put the tivo stuff on the motorola's. thats my advice, nothing else.

Dave I'm curious, did you have a motorola box or SA? I've got the SA8300HD and did have problems. But I have to admit that if I didnt have a Tivo before, and not been used to their interface, I'd probably be more tollerant to the Comcast box. Its a hell of allot cheaper...but I can atleast blame the wife on buying the S3 tivo

[dt_dc]

Also, sony, dell and gateway all showed them off at the e3 show. those hit the shelves this month as well.Dunno about this month ...

Sony says their CableCard PC isn't shipping till mid-April:
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/%3Cwbr%3EINTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=VGXXL3&Dept=computers&CategoryName=cpu_digitallivingsystemh

Gateway says they have no immediate plans for a CableCard PC:
http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6419265.html?display=Special+Report

Of the three, Dell has certainly been the most enthusiastic ... we shall see if they are able to ship anything in March.

[davecramer74]

fcorey, i have a motorola 3416. I originally had a 6412, which was garbage. Theyve fixed most of the bugs on the newer version. If you read on here, the SA's seem to be pretty awful. I dont have any personal experience with those. I havent had tivo since i dumped directv, so i had already been without it for awhile now, so getting the s3 wasnt a must have for me. I do like the interface on the tivo alot better. But, not enough for me personally to justify its cost.

dt, thanks for the links. I had just read a couple arcticles back in january after the e3 show that we should start seeing them in march. Glad to see they are starting to get some dates out there.

[BigMaxie]

ianyways, good luck to the original poster. My advice would be to get a cable dvr and wait for prices to drop on the s3 and the media pc's. Or, wait until they put the tivo stuff on the motorola's. thats my advice, nothing else.

Pretty bad advice if you've ever used a cable company DVR. If you record alot they are pretty much a pos, unreliable, bad interface, etc.

I know I couldn't wait to get rid of mine to purchase the S3. One of the smartest buys I've ever made.

And for what it's worth I think GoHokies! is a pretty smart dude and usually post very helpful stuff. I may be new posting but I have been lurking quite a bit. On the other hand davecramer74 you seem to like to stir up controversy quite a bit.

I don't think your a bad person you just seem to have this thing where you want to push S3 owners buttons.

[davecramer74]

Pretty bad advice if you've ever used a cable company DVR. If you record alot they are pretty much a pos, unreliable, bad interface, etc.

I know I couldn't wait to get rid of mine to purchase the S3. One of the smartest buys I've ever made.

And for what it's worth I think GoHokies! is a pretty smart dude and usually post very helpful stuff. I may be new posting but I have been lurking quite a bit. On the other hand davecramer74 you seem to like to stir up controversy quite a bit.

I don't think your a bad person you just seem to have this thing where you want to push S3 owners buttons.

Well, my advice is based on SDV. S3's will not be capable of recieving all of the cable programming. Anything they move to SDV will be unavailable. Why tell someone to go out and spend 650 or whatever on something that you wont get full functionality out of in the next 12 months? You think its bad advice for me to tell this person to wait for the price to drop or the tivo software coming out on the cable dvrs?

I don't think your a bad person you just seem to have this thing where you want to push S3 owners buttons.

actually, the only ones who ive had a problem on here with is hookbill, whose banned and hokies. I dont like their attitudes one bit. If your not Rah rah s3, then they post these sarcastic posts. It got old, im done reading what the guy has to type. ya, he might be a smart guy, but he's also a smart ass. 0ne that i dont care to listen to anymore. id suggest any s3 owners who dont like what i have to post, put me on ignore as well. Its a chat board, ive got an opinion and ill state it. The beauty of it is, you dont have to read it if you dont want to.

;)

[BigMaxie]

Well, my advice is based on SDV. S3's will not be capable of recieving all of the cable programming. Anything they move to SDV will be unavailable. Why tell someone to go out and spend 650 or whatever on something that you wont get full functionality out of in the next 12 months? You think its bad advice for me to tell this person to wait for the price to drop or the tivo software coming out on the cable dvrs?
;)


But here's the thing I don't think you get. You really don't have a full understanding of what will happen when SDV comes down the pipe. Not to mention how long it will take for it to actually happen.

Fact: SDV is not new, it's been around for a while and it is definitely in full blown use in a couple of areas in the country. Reduced HD content is a fact as well.

Fact: This has been done only by TW and not Comcast although Comcast has announced intentions to do so. But a roll out is simply not possible very quickly.

Still your absolutely right when you say S3 owners could loose content but from MY understanding of what is available in places like Austin TX where they do have full blown SDV there is not one thing they offer on SDV that I care about. Now that's just me, ymmv.

Now certainly it IS a good idea for consumers to be aware of SDV. It should be taken into consideration if your thinking of purchasing an S3 and I certainly did before I bought mine.

Informing people is one thing, but putting a scare into folks is another. That's what I get from your post, while I don't think you mean it that way it's how it comes across to me.

As I said earlier, I generally believe your a good person, not a trouble maker. I think you need to research SDV a bit more carefully however.

[mbernste]

Sheesh, what is it with these crazy people (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/member.php?u=46167) and their open letters (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=341061&page=1&pp=30&highlight=open+letter)?

[GoHokies!]

Why tell someone to go out and spend 650 or whatever on something that you wont get full functionality out of in the next 12 months? You think its bad advice for me to tell this person to wait for the price to drop or the tivo software coming out on the cable dvrs?
I don't know Dave, why don't you think it's bad advice to say that a solution to that is a near-$3,000 solution that still may not work bi-directionally?
actually, the only ones who ive had a problem on here with is hookbill, whose banned and hokies. I dont like their attitudes one bit. If your not Rah rah s3, then they post these sarcastic posts.
Boo hoo, sometimes the truth hurts. Read my signature. I'm not around here to make you feel good, I'm here to accurately represent the facts as best I can and not fearmonger about BS like SDV that only exists in a few markets and is going to take years to roll out nationwide.

[DeathRider]

From that Gateway article dc posted:

As noted, the first OCUR devices are unidirectional, meaning they’re unable to access any interactive digital cable applications provided by an operator, including VOD and on-screen programming guides. CableLab’s OpenCable Application Platform (OCAP), a technology that has yet to move out of the trial phase, is designed to provide this functionality.


So, that $300 ATI box is unidirectional, meaning when a future omnidirectional add on/replacement is still up in the air.

Since we don't know much about the ATI device. Is all the hardware there for bidirectionality and only needs a firmware update to activate it, will you need a whole noew box like an S3 (or some capable workaround), if a new box needed, will it cost another $300, or will you send it back and receive an updated box for a small fee?

Considering it will only work with a few qualifying computers, what is the cost of the computer? Will it be offered w/o a monitor to lessen the price?

What about the Sony or Niveus’ Digital Cable Receivers? What is their upgrade paths?

Even if the S3 isn't updateable for bidirectionality and you would need to by a S3a/S4, it may still be the cheaper path.

Who knows, everything is up in the air and we know who is holding all the cards...

[BigMaxie]

I don't know Dave, why don't you think it's bad advice to say that a solution to that is a near-$3,000 solution that still may not work bi-directionally?

Boo hoo, sometimes the truth hurts. Read my signature. I'm not around here to make you feel good, I'm here to accurately represent the facts as best I can and not fearmonger about BS like SDV that only exists in a few markets and is going to take years to roll out nationwide.


If davecramer is ignoring you then how the heck can he ever see the message you wrote? Arn't you just letting off steam to the rest of us? :)

[GoHokies!]

If davecramer is ignoring you then how the heck can he ever see the message you wrote? Arn't you just letting off steam to the rest of us? :)
I had hoped that either a)he were bluffing or b)I could trick some newbie into quoting me.

Thanks for being that newbie. Yes, you're right - if I am on his ignore list, I think that my posts just don't show up. I wouldn't know, I don't believe in putting anyone on my ignore list (except spammers, and the mods do a good job of keeping that crap out of here). Welcome to the site, by the way...

(OK, I'm really so hardheaded that I've been known to argue with a brick wall, so talking to someone that isn't listening isn't that much of a stretch! :D)

[BigMaxie]

I had hoped that either a)he were bluffing or b)I could trick some newbie into quoting me.

Thanks for being that newbie. Yes, you're right - if I am on his ignore list, I think that my posts just don't show up. I wouldn't know, I don't believe in putting anyone on my ignore list (except spammers, and the mods do a good job of keeping that crap out of here). Welcome to the site, by the way...
)


:o

Thanks for the welcome.....I think. :o

[davecramer74]

So, that $300 ATI box is unidirectional, meaning when a future omnidirectional add on/replacement is still up in the air.

Since we don't know much about the ATI device. Is all the hardware there for bidirectionality and only needs a firmware update to activate it, will you need a whole noew box like an S3 (or some capable workaround), if a new box needed, will it cost another $300, or will you send it back and receive an updated box for a small fee?

Considering it will only work with a few qualifying computers, what is the cost of the computer? Will it be offered w/o a monitor to lessen the price?

What about the Sony or Niveus’ Digital Cable Receivers? What is their upgrade paths?

Even if the S3 isn't updateable for bidirectionality and you would need to by a S3a/S4, it may still be the cheaper path.

Who knows, everything is up in the air and we know who is holding all the cards...

its a $140 as an addon per that site i linked yesterday. So basically price a media center machine right now and add 140 bucks or so.

Id imagine you would need a new product for bidirectional. Remember, ati isnt like tivo, they pump out new cards once a year at least. if you went out and bought one of these mediacenter pc's, you'd be an early adopter like the s3's and would need to upgrade once the bidirectional products are out. the question is, will you be able to just purchase the new tuner from whoever you bought your pc from or are like you asked, would you have to buy an entire new pc? if your pc is cablelabs certified, does that mean u can just upgrade? Who knows, thus while ill be holding off like i am with the tivo.

[fcorey]

Well, my advice is based on SDV. S3's will not be capable of recieving all of the cable programming. Anything they move to SDV will be unavailable. Why tell someone to go out and spend 650 or whatever on something that you wont get full functionality out of in the next 12 months? You think its bad advice for me to tell this person to wait for the price to drop or the tivo software coming out on the cable dvrs?


Dave or someone else can you explain the SDV issue to me? I am not sure I am following what you're talking about there.

[cherry ghost]

Dave or someone else can you explain the SDV issue to me? I am not sure I am following what you're talking about there.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=341019

[fcorey]

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=341019
thanks, i started searching after i posted....

[davecramer74]

fcory, do a search on switched digital video off of yahoo or google. You'll find some good arcticles off the first page and understand what the uproar is about.

really what it boils down to is tivo doesnt pump out hardware yearly. They have a fantastic product, but cater to a pretty small group of clients. The S3 wont be able to handle the new technology that cable is moving to. Either they make a new product or people buying them will deal with the limitations. What those limitations are at this point noone knows. What is known, that for the cable co's to expand their HD content, they have to go in this direction now and not later. Directv has will be setting the bar in the coming months, and pretty much forced cable co's to go with the short term solution which will let them compete. Long term solution is competitors like verizon. Comcast, in probably 60% of their area's are on par. They have fiber to the front of the house, so they arent as concerned. Smaller cable companies, on the other hand, its another story. It really depends on where you live in the country to be honest with you. If you got fat pipes out in front of the house, i wouldnt be concerned. But if your in a big ass neighborhood and have limited hd as it is...well....

[GoHokies!]

really what it boils down to is tivo doesnt pump out hardware yearly.

I agree with just about everything you said but this.

Most people would say that the S3 was about a year late to market. If you keep on waiting to include the next latest and greatest thing, you'll never get a product to market.

[RandyDtg]

Since this is an open letter to TiVo, let me say,

TiVo, we love you. :-)

The S3 is great!!!! The Cadillac for TV watchers. Keep up the good work.

[sthor]

Dear TiVo;

What can I say? I looks as though I may have to move on without you. Don't get me wrong - you have been my faithful companion for nearly 4 years now, recording my every show and providing me with hours and hours of entertainment pleasure... but it appears as though your time has come.

You see - you've just become too much of a burden.

I faced the same dilemna with my faithful 6 year old Sony DirecTivo back in December.

I chose option #3 and went over to the dark side and signed up with Dish and got a shiny new Dish Vip 622. I thought hard about a Series 3 but in the end I just could not go back to cable.

The 622 is a great DVR. Its software takes a major mental adjustment for a long time Tivo user like me but I am getting accustomed to the differences.

If you are not married to cable consider coming over to the dark side. Its pretty good over here. :)

[GoHokies!]

After the ongoing legal issues between Tivo and Dish, there is no way that I would consider doing business with those thieving bastards.

[Bierboy]

After the ongoing legal issues between Tivo and Dish, there is no way that I would consider doing business with those thieving bastards.Which bastards...TiVo or Dish? ;)

[CraigHB]

So far, 0 problems. No regrets. My only complaint is some sluggishness on certain guide data operations, but I expect that to get fixed with a software update one of these days. Bought mine at Costco. If it ever takes a dump, they'll replace it with a new one or refund my money if I prefer.

[CraigHB]

So my point: I can save $769 dollars if I concede to work with crappy cable box interface.I have to admit that TiVo's pricing makes the Series 3 a luxury item in comparison to a service provider HD DVR. However, there is a way to make TiVo less expensive. If you can live with getting your HD OTA only, you can save another $10 per month on your cable bill. That would make the difference you quoted $409 instead of $769. I think the excellent TiVo interface is definitely worth $409 over 3 years. In my case, I break even over 3 years. My cable company gave me $200 off my first year of service. They didn't charge me for cablecard installation and my cards are $3 per month for the both of them. Plus, the difference in my bill is closer to $30 since they charge more for their HD DVR and HD service. I'm using only OTA for my HD. For me it's a wash in 3 years and I still get my lovely TiVo. Plus, I have lifetime so after that, I'm actually saving close to $30 per month and I still have the resale value of my lifetimed box.

It's sad that TiVo still can't turn a profit even with their higher prices. They may be making more money off each subscriber, but they're also losing subscribers. It's probably just a wash. To me, it looks like an act of desperation in reaching profitibablity. Not a good sign. I would have expected their prices to drop or remain constant as they gain subscribership. That would be more typical of successful product or service.

I've read that Dish Network (E*) has a pretty good DVR. If you're going to use a non-TiVo DVR, that might be a better way to go.

Best of luck!

[hornblowercat]

Since this is an open letter to TiVo, let me say,

TiVo, we love you. :-)

The S3 is great!!!! The Cadillac for TV watchers. Keep up the good work.


I couldn't agree more. And if you don't buy because of fear of SDV, that's up to you but I would research the facts and not allow people like davecramer to make you afraid to purchase one.

[Bierboy]

I couldn't agree more. And if you don't buy because of fear of SDV, that's up to you but I would research the facts and not allow people like davecramer to make you afraid to purchase one.yeah, too bad HE wasn't been banned from the forum instead of Hookbill... :rolleyes:

[CraigHB]

Directv has will be setting the bar in the coming months, and pretty much forced cable co's to go with the short term solution which will let them compete.I wont go anywhere near DirecTV's over-compressed garbage again. Moving away from them to digital cable gave me a huge improvement in standard definition alone. I can image the quality problems when they achieve their claimed 150 HD channel line-up. That's assuming they ever actually achieve it. They're going to do this with only 2 additional MPEG4 satellites? Right now, they're using 3 satellites just to broadcast their non-HD programming. At this point, I think they're just blowing smoke.

[DeathRider]

I can image the quality problems when they achieve their claimed 150 HD channel line-up. That's assuming they ever actually achieve it. They're going to do this with only 2 additional MPEG4 satellites? Right now, they're using 3 satellites just to broadcast their non-HD programming. At this point, I think they're just blowing smoke.

The latest commercials I've seen state additional theoretical capacity...not actual. Best case senario D* versus worst case cable.

[vstone]

I wont go anywhere near DirecTV's over-compressed garbage again. Moving away from them to digital cable gave me a huge improvement in standard definition alone. I can image the quality problems when they achieve their claimed 150 HD channel line-up. That's assuming they ever actually achieve it. They're going to do this with only 2 additional MPEG4 satellites? Right now, they're using 3 satellites just to broadcast their non-HD programming. At this point, I think they're just blowing smoke.I'm not here to defend DirecTV. I left because of PQ (after leaving cable in 97 and going to D* because of SD PQ). But if they have a lot of spot beams for locals, this might be doable. If any of their current SD receivers support HD MPEG4 reception for SD display(advertised capability or not), they can start turning off sd locals at their convenience prior to FEB 09. All told, they will eventually recover what, say 500-700 local SD MPEG2 channels and replace them with say 200 local HD channels. At their convenience they can replace HBO with HBOHD. Give everybody a PVR and drop west coast feeds, etc.

I'm almost surprised they still sell an SD receiver at all. At some point HD receivers won't cost significantly more than SD ones.

[jtlytle]

Did the poster here, Chuckles_077 came back?

[moyekj]

I don't buy into this DirecTV mpeg4 as a good thing. ATSC standards dictate how digital transmissions have to be done and that's all mpeg2 AFAIK. So at some point DirecTV has to transcode to mpeg4 from an mpeg2 source meaning the quality will always be worse than the source, even for HD locals. So it would seem the order of "goodness" for HD (once mpeg4 is deployed by DirectTV) is:
OTA
cable
Dish
DirecTV

[CraigHB]

My last post was unnecessarily hostile toward D*. Some bad blood there. To be fair and give DirecTV some credit, on a tube TV, I did get some improvement compared to analog cable. DirecTV was better than the analog cable stations and not quite as good as the digital cable stations. The problem only reared its ugly head when I put the picture on a big screen. In that case, DirecTV SD PQ rated only slightly above a basic quality analog recording on my S3. With that in mind, I would be leary of DirecTV's MPEG4 HD offerings. With the amount of compression they will likely use, there could be quality issues with their HD as well. Doesn't matter anyway because it's unlikely I'll ever go back with them. I only did it for the DirecTiVo in the first place.

[davecramer74]

my issue with directv is they "lease" yet require you to put some money up front unless your an existing customer. Hostility is something i wouldnt appologize for. Dish is offering up their mrv dvr (hd in one room sd in the other) for free. Its a nice dvr and id recommend it. At this point, they lead the hd arena. I was over at my bro-n-laws last weekend, looked pretty good.

[SC0TLANDF0REVER]

... blah, blah, blah ...

...and you have never seen the need to come here to *support* the community/TiVo/others.
Only to post *once* moaning & groaning :rollseyes:

Goodbye, you will not be missed.