Comcast Acknowledges TiVo in their FAQ

[pl1]

Comcast is finally acknowledging the new TiVo Series 3 in their cableCARD pricing FAQ. And they even made an error on the second device. It should be "you will be charged" for the second cableCARD not "you will not be charged". Also, they fail to go in to a lot of detail regarding the A/O charge. Very confusing FAQ here. But I can confirm that the first A/O and cableCARD are free and the second card gets an A/O and a cableCARD fee. :

http://www.comcast.com/Customers/FAQ/FaqDetails.ashx?Id=2651

How much will I be charged to use a CableCARD?

There is no charge for the first CableCARD that you use as it is already included in the primary outlet fee. If you have a multi-card device on the same outlet (i.e. TiVo Series 3 or two Digital Cable Tuners connected to the same personal computer), you will be charged an additional regulated fee of up to $1.91 for the second CableCARD.

If additional CableCARDs are needed for other devices that are installed on additional outlets, you will not e charged for the first CableCARD installed on this outlet as the cost is included in the additional outlet fee. In addition to the cost of the digital cable service, you will not be charged a regulated fee of up to $1.91 for the second CableCARD on the additional outlet.

**Note: The same pricing schedule will be applicable to additional outlets with multi-CableCARD devices, e.g. no charge for first CableCARD on the third outlet and an additional regulated fee of up to $1.91 for the second CableCARD in addition to the digital service charge.

Disclaimer: Regulated Prices quoted above may not apply in all markets. Please call 1-800-COMCAST to learn more about Regulated Prices for your area.

[hookbill]

Comcast is finally acknowledging the new TiVo Series 3 in their cableCARD pricing FAQ. And they even made an error on the second device. should be "you will be charged" for the second cableCARD not "you will not be charged" :
http://www.comcast.com/Customers/FAQ/FaqDetails.ashx?Id=2651
How much will I be charged to use a CableCARD?
There is no charge for the first CableCARD that you use as it is already included in the primary outlet fee. If you have a multi-card device on the same outlet (i.e. TiVo Series 3 or two Digital Cable Tuners connected to the same personal computer), you will be charged an additional regulated fee of up to $1.91 for the second CableCARD.

If additional CableCARDs are needed for other devices that are installed on additional outlets, you will not e charged for the first CableCARD installed on this outlet as the cost is included in the additional outlet fee. In addition to the cost of the digital cable service, you will not be charged a regulated fee of up to $1.91 for the second CableCARD on the additional outlet.

**Note: The same pricing schedule will be applicable to additional outlets with multi-CableCARD devices, e.g. no charge for first CableCARD on the third outlet and an additional regulated fee of up to $1.91 for the second CableCARD in addition to the digital service charge.

Disclaimer: Regulated Prices quoted above may not apply in all markets. Please call 1-800-COMCAST to learn more about Regulated Prices for your area.

If I may borrow from Neil Armstrong: That's one small step for man, one giant leap for TiVo. :)

[rcr2]

I don't see an error in the statement. you won't be charged on a second device for one CableCard (because you are being charged for an additional outlet already for that second device.. you pay the additional outlet, not additional outlet AND for the cablecard). If you have Two cablecards on the second outlet, you get hit with the extra cablecard fee.

Regardless, Comcast is saying they don't have any cablecards and won't be getting any in the foreseeable future.

Hence, when my Series 3 arrives tomorrow, I will simply bring it to UPS and ship it right back without opening it.

[pl1]

If I may borrow from Neil Armstrong: That's one small step for man, one giant leap for TiVo. :)Mmm Hmm.

[ah30k]

I'm on the phone now trying to get my additional outlet fee dropped from $9 to the $1.91. The rep is so clueless!

[pl1]

I don't see an error in the statement. you won't be charged on a second device for one CableCard (because you are being charged for an additional outlet already for that second device.. you pay the additional outlet, not additional outlet AND for the cablecard). If you have Two cablecards on the second outlet, you get hit with the extra cablecard fee..

Read CLOSELY:


If additional CableCARDs are needed for other devices that are installed on additional outlets, you will not e charged for the first CableCARD installed on this outlet as the cost is included in the additional outlet fee. In addition to the cost of the digital cable service, you will not be charged a regulated fee of up to $1.91 for the second CableCARD on the additional outlet.

[rcr2]

Ah.. so they aren't charging for a fourth and sixth cablecard, is how I read it then.

It may not be an error.

But, at the end of the day, it's a moot point if they don't provide you with CableCards (or ones that work properly, or if they switch everything to SDV).

[pl1]

Ah.. so they aren't charging for a fourth and sixth cablecard, if how I read it.It may not be an error.But, at the end of the day, it's a moot point if they don't provide you with CableCards (or ones that work properly, or if they switch everything to SDV).If you read the THIRD A/O they DID get it right:

**Note: The same pricing schedule will be applicable to additional outlets with multi-CableCARD devices, e.g. no charge for first CableCARD on the third outlet and an additional regulated fee of up to $1.91 for the second CableCARD in addition to the digital service charge.

[pl1]

I'm on the phone now trying to get my additional outlet fee dropped from $9 to the $1.91. The rep is so clueless!Well, that's the vague part of the FAQ. The A/O fee. I mean, it's not vague to us. There is no A/O as far as we TiVo users are concerned. But Comcast sees that differently where I live and they are not only charging me for the second cableCARD (as they should), but they are also charging me for an A/O fee on the second cableCARD. So, $1.50/mo cableCARD and $3.51/mo A/O fee. Still, I can live with that. Same price as a digital STB.

[rcr2]

No - see, if you have a primary outlet with a single CableCard (or regular box, etc), then you just get charged for your primary outlet.

Now, you have a second outlet, and you get hit with the additional outlet fee. On that second outlet, you have a multi-card device. You will be charged for both cablecards on that outlet.

You get a third outlet, with two cablecards again, and you only get charged additional outlet fee, but only get charged for one card.

It's all in how they are phrasing primary and additional outlets. They're doing it so you can't say "Hey - I have a primary outlet (with one card) and you said on the secondary outlet, if I had a multi-device, I wouldn't pay up for the second card."

[dswallow]

To summarize, as I read it...

If the TiVo Series 3 is the primary device on your account
(1) CableCARD included with the primary outlet fee as part of your programming package
(1) Additional CableCARD equipment charge (regulated fee up to $1.91)

Each TiVo Series 3 on your account other than the primary
(1) Additional digital outlet fee (includes one CableCARD)
(1) CableCARD equipment charge (regulated fee up to $1.91)

In other words, your TiVo Series 3 is a single outlet and has (2) CableCARDs, the first of which is included as part of your outlet charge.

[kjmcdonald]

That's how I read it also (after the typo of the extra 'not' is fixed -which has to be a mistake because it doesn't make sense any other way.)


I would add:

In other words, your TiVo Series 3 is a single outlet and has (2) CableCARDs, the first of which is included as part of your outlet charge.

(which may be included in your digital package if it's your first or only outlet.)


Anyone being charged a A/O fee, on a second card needs to think about their setup.

Do you have a CableCARD or Cable Box on any other TV in your house?
If yes, then that's your first outlet, and the A/O isn't for the second card, it's for the Tivo itself.

If no, then I'd say you shouldn't have to pay the A/O fee. I'd fight it.


Another question is:

Do you pay for a Digital package of any kind?
If yes, then I'd definitely fight it.

If no, then it may be correct, since I believe they include the price of the first outlet in the Digital package, NOT in the basic cable package. (They actually call them 'Digital Outlets'

-Kyle

[sfhub]

There was some talk (ie feedback from Comcast CSRs) that the digital outlet fee is only charged if you have a digital package and need a 2nd, 3rd, etc. outlet.

There is a subset of TiVo users who don't have a digital package (like digital classic) and just use CC for channel mappings for their HD locals.

Question is whether that info is accurate and whether this subset of folks shouldn't have to (or aren't) paying the A/O fee.

I think it is pretty bogus for them to charge you a $6.99 A/O fee (that's what it is in some areas) for the 2nd S3 just because they can't get their act together and propogate PSIP information, forcing you to get 2 CableCARDs just so the channel mappings are correct.

[acvthree]

I think it is pretty bogus for them to charge you a $6.99 A/O fee (that's what it is in some areas) for the 2nd S3 just because they can't get their act together and propogate PSIP information, forcing you to get 2 CableCARDs just so the channel mappings are correct.

Could you elaborate?

As far as I know, Tivo doesn't use PSIP at all.

My understanding is that two cablecards are needed to support two streams of video.

Al

[dswallow]

Could you elaborate?

As far as I know, Tivo doesn't use PSIP at all.

My understanding is that two cablecards are needed to support two streams of video.
If there's no interest in the reception of encrypted channels, the TiVo software, in theory, could use the channel mapping data from one CableCARD to control tuning of both cable tuners.

If the cable company wanted to eliminate the need for CableCARDs for reception of non-encrypted content, they could insert channel mapping data in the PSIP data stream on all digital channels and then software on receivers such as TiVo Series 3 could utilize that information for tuning purposes. Different cable ssytems might already be doing some of this; in my case before getting CableCARDs, I noticed a half dozen or so digitally tuned channels from Comcast were mapping to the proper channel numbers.

[kjmcdonald]

There was some talk (ie feedback from Comcast CSRs) that the digital outlet fee is only charged if you have a digital package and need a 2nd, 3rd, etc. outlet.

There is a subset of TiVo users who don't have a digital package (like digital classic) and just use CC for channel mappings for their HD locals.

Question is whether that info is accurate and whether this subset of folks shouldn't have to (or aren't) paying the A/O fee.

I think it is pretty bogus for them to charge you a $6.99 A/O fee (that's what it is in some areas) for the 2nd S3 just because they can't get their act together and propogate PSIP information, forcing you to get 2 CableCARDs just so the channel mappings are correct.

That is bogus.

And while it is labeled and 'additional outlet' (implying you have one already,) SInce they consider the first outlet price included in the digital package price, I can see them sticking to the A/O fee on a Tivo that has CableCARDs. I'd actually understand it as for the Tivo itself and not for the 2nd card. Since you're not paying for the first outlet in the package price, I'd think they'd want you to pay for the first outlet with the first CableCARD.

I think having to pay for outlets is crap. I think it shouldn't matter how many devices I have, I'm paying for content to be delivered to my house. But I think I see what they're thinking (And not explaining very well.)

-Kyle

[sfhub]

Could you elaborate?

As far as I know, Tivo doesn't use PSIP at all.

My understanding is that two cablecards are needed to support two streams of video.
TiVo S3 is perfectly capable of tuning 2 streams of unencrypted HD locals w/o any CableCARD installed. The problem is the channel #s from the guide don't match the physical RF frequencies like 119.1, 123.5, etc. If you are in this subcategory of S3 users, you are not getting the 2 CableCARDs to decrypt premium content. You are getting the 2 CableCARDs solely to get the proper channel mapping so when you say record ch702 "Prison Break" it knows to record RF 119.1.

If Comcast mapped 119.1 to either 702 or 2.1 using PSIP, then TiVo wouldn't be forced to use CableCARD to get this mapping. TiVo is perfectly capable of processing PSIP because it does it for OTA. At worst it would be some minor change in the software.

[Brainiac 5]

There is a subset of TiVo users who don't have a digital package (like digital classic) and just use CC for channel mappings for their HD locals.

Question is whether that info is accurate and whether this subset of folks shouldn't have to (or aren't) paying the A/O fee.If you only have basic cable, then legally they can only charge the actual cost of providing you the extra outlet (which in the days of analog, was indisputably zero). No way does it cost them $6.99 a month to keep a CableCARD working.

[Sevenfeet]

No way indeed but in places like Nashville they ae charging $6.95 per card if you have Digital Cable, which is outrageous. I'm not taking it lying down either. I'm already looking to contact our local city's CATV board, which has a member who includes an old childhood friend. Who knows, I might join it.

[QuietPower]

Thanks for the post..I have to check in my area Minneapolis,MN

[abates25]

I got my TiVo last Wednesday, went down to Comcasts office in Seattle an hour after getting the delivery, and walked out in five minutes with two cablecards in hand. Took a little tweaking back at home to get everything working okay, but really wasn't terribly cumbersome.

So...point of my post is Comcast, in Seattle at least, is fully versed and able to hand out cablecards - no appointment needed. I mentioned to them that I had heard different areas of the country serviced by Comcast weren't getting the same level of service and she just shrugged. So.....move to seattle, and enjoy your Series3!

[ewilts]

Thanks for the post..I have to check in my area Minneapolis,MN
http://hdtvtwincities.com/forumbb/viewtopic.php?t=2983

I haven't seen this month's cable bill yet, but I've been screwed over for the "additional digital outlet" since day 1. The fee for the ADO is supposed to go up this month too!

.../Ed

[bausell56]

I have used S2's and love em.
Just got HD and am using Comcast's POS DVR. Going to S3 right away.
I don't follow the cable card's needed.
As I understand it, if I keep Comcast Reciever than I don't need the CC's.
Does this sound right?
Can anyone tell me if you get all of the channels that comcast offers with just the S3?
I was thinking of keeping the reciever and running them both into the TV and changing the source to comcast reciever if the S3 cannot get all of the channels and features.
Need some help here.

Thanks
Vic

[sfhub]

If you only have basic cable, then legally they can only charge the actual cost of providing you the extra outlet (which in the days of analog, was indisputably zero). No way does it cost them $6.99 a month to keep a CableCARD working.
Is there a reference to this? I'd like to read up on it.

[CrispyCritter]

I have used S2's and love em.
Just got HD and am using Comcast's POS DVR. Going to S3 right away.
I don't follow the cable card's needed.
As I understand it, if I keep Comcast Reciever than I don't need the CC's.
Does this sound right?
Can anyone tell me if you get all of the channels that comcast offers with just the S3?
I was thinking of keeping the reciever and running them both into the TV and changing the source to comcast reciever if the S3 cannot get all of the channels and features.Your S3 cannot control the Comcast Receiver like your S2 could; it's designed to be a replacement for the receiver.

With cable cards, you can get all the channels (except PPV and On-Demand) that the Comcast Receiver can. Without cablecards, you'll be missing some tiers of service.

You can run them both in parallel and switch if that's what you want to do.

[ewilts]

With cable cards, you can get all the channels (except PPV and On-Demand) that the Comcast Receiver can. Without cablecards, you'll be missing some tiers of service.
Until Comcast rolls out SDV in your area - this has been frequently discussed since Comcast's announcement that they were going to aggressively roll out SDV later this year. The S3 is incapable of receiving SDV so you will not be able to receive those switched stations.

.../Ed

[TerryD]

I have used S2's and love em.
Just got HD and am using Comcast's POS DVR. Going to S3 right away.
I don't follow the cable card's needed.
As I understand it, if I keep Comcast Reciever than I don't need the CC's.
Does this sound right?
Can anyone tell me if you get all of the channels that comcast offers with just the S3?
I was thinking of keeping the reciever and running them both into the TV and changing the source to comcast reciever if the S3 cannot get all of the channels and features.
Need some help here.

Thanks
Vic

Is that you, mom? I've had this conversation with my mom at least 5 times. She has 2 S2s and just can't grasp the idea that no cable box is necessary.

I know that this isn't adding any value to the conversation.