Bravia 40XBR2 or 40XBR3

[Robs67]

I am moving slowly towards HD and the Series 3. I think I have settled on the Sony Bravia. Does anyone know the difference (besides the price) between the 40XBR2 and the 40XBR3? I found a few sites where you could compare the two but the specs listed in the comparison were all the same.

Thanks.

[TostitoBandito]

The ONLY difference between the XBR2's and XBR3's is the piano-black bezel which you get on the XBR3. Other than this cosmetic difference, they are identical.

[PCVSTAR]

There is also an 18 month part and labor warranty on the XBR3

[TostitoBandito]

There is also an 18 month part and labor warranty on the XBR3

I'm pretty sure the warranties from Sony are the same on both sets.

[joelkfla]

Are these models suffering from the uneven backlighting "clouds" I've been reading about on Sony HDTV's?

[Mike Farrington]

The ONLY difference between the XBR2's and XBR3's is the piano-black bezel which you get on the XBR3. Other than this cosmetic difference, they are identical.It also comes with a black remote as opposed to the grey one.

I'm interested in this set as well. Does anybody have any info on this year's version? When is it due, what are its specs?

I wish this set had a CableCARD, since my cable company can't get their act together it would be nice to have another CableCARD device besides the S3.

[Robs67]

Are these models suffering from the uneven backlighting "clouds" I've been reading about on Sony HDTV's?

From what I can gather, the TVs made after December should be ok. Those made before December have a USB firmware update that one can request from Sony.

Lots of info to wade through on just the TV. TiVo Series 3, HDTV, and everything else just adds to the info overload for me.

[MrSoprano]

i purchased the 46xbr2 in november and i love this set!!! picture is unbelieveable. along with my s3, Xbox360 with HD-DVD, and PS3 with Blue Ray i am in HD heaven :) go for it man you won't be disappointed!

[vstone]

I have no idea when new models are scheduled to come out, but come March 1, there are new ATSC requirements for every TV under 27". This will require some replacements in most TV lines. Some new product announcements made at CES were a little vague, probaby designed to minimize cannilbalizing sales of TV's already in country.

[kjmcdonald]

It also comes with a black remote as opposed to the grey one.

I'm interested in this set as well. Does anybody have any info on this year's version? When is it due, what are its specs?

I wish this set had a CableCARD, since my cable company can't get their act together it would be nice to have another CableCARD device besides the S3.

But then you'd have to pay for an additional outlet. ;) j/k

-Kyle

[phototrek]

According to pecs, the remotes are also different betwen the two. I have a Harmony anyway, plus think the XBR3 is ugly, so it was easy to save $300 :)

[TostitoBandito]

Addressing a number of the questions here since I own one.

1. The "clouding" issue was overblown and not as widespread as places like avsforum would have you believe. I bought mine in October and it is fine. Many of the complaints were coming from people who were nitpicking or cranking settings on perfectly good sets until they saw non-uniform backlighting (which exists to some extent on every single LCD panel ever made).

2. No announcement has come from Sony about the new versions of these sets. They did demo some very large (60 and 70 inch I believe) LCD's at CES which had the new technology that will likely be in the new versions of the 40 and 46 XBR2/3. That technology is 1080p @120Hz, faster response time, LED backlight, and HDMI 1.3 to name a few. The 70 inch model is actually on their web site now and says coming in February. I would venture a guess that you will see similar smaller panels sometime in the next few months. Here is the link to the page for the 70 incher:

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?CategoryName=tv_flatpanel_46to52&ProductSKU=KDL70XBR3&TabName=feature&var2=

[astrohip]

I actually have both of these (one of each!). They are identical in features/electronic workings. The XBR3 has a glossy black bezel (very cool looking!), and the XBR2 has a silver perforated one. The remotes are different colors (but identical otherwise). Of course, I use the S3 remote. And the XBR3 has an 18 month warranty; 12 on the XBR2.

That's all I can think of. All of this was mentioned in previous posts; I am summarizing & confirming.

BTW, this is a great HDTV. Beautiful crisp picture, incredibly wide viewing angles (which not all LCDs have). It's like an S3--a whole lotta money, but well worth it!

[Robs67]

I saw the 40XBR2 in Circuity City yesterday. I thought it was beautiful. I am in love. Just waiting for the direct deposit from Uncle Sam.

[LostTivo]

Addressing a number of the questions here since I own one.

1. The "clouding" issue was overblown and not as widespread as places like avsforum would have you believe. I bought mine in October and it is fine. Many of the complaints were coming from people who were nitpicking or cranking settings on perfectly good sets until they saw non-uniform backlighting (which exists to some extent on every single LCD panel ever made).



This is nonsense.

For starters, the XBR3 models do indeed have 1.5 year warranties -- XBR2s come with one year. Might want to check your facts before claiming to be an expert.

Secondly, the issue is not being overblown.

I went through 3 sets myself before giving up (46" XBR2s). The 2 sets in my towns CC have clouds (40 and 46), the 2 at BB have clouds (40 and 52) and a specialty AV retailer has a 46 on display with clouds. Manufacturing dates ranged from July to January.

This isn't with special "cranked" up settings like you suggest - this is using the DEFAULT settings from the factory in showrooms that have good amounts of light. The problem is even worse in a dark room.

If you are happy with spending $3k on a TV with a major defect, good for you. Trying to play a video game or watch a dark movie on my sets was a joke. I tried turning the settings down to where it eliminated the problem and the screen was so dark it looked horrible. And don't try and tell me I'm just being nitpicky - my wife and parents all noticed the problem as well and they are hardly videophiles.

Personally, I'll wait til Aug. for the new sets that will have the problem fixed and cost several hundred less (in addition to having 120Hz and LED). If you are happy spending primo bucks on mediocrity though, more power to you.

[astrohip]

Secondly, the issue is not being overblown.
Hmm, I would debate that. The issue exists. No doubt. OTOH, it is not universal. I have two of these units, my brother has one. None of our three have the clouding issue. And yes, I have seen a unit that had it, so I know what to look for.

Yes, it exists. I have no idea what percent are affected, but it is not 100%, and in my case, it's 0%.

And it's a great LCD HDTV!

[TostitoBandito]

This is nonsense.

For starters, the XBR3 models do indeed have 1.5 year warranties -- XBR2s come with one year. Might want to check your facts before claiming to be an expert.

Secondly, the issue is not being overblown.

I went through 3 sets myself before giving up (46" XBR2s). The 2 sets in my towns CC have clouds (40 and 46), the 2 at BB have clouds (40 and 52) and a specialty AV retailer has a 46 on display with clouds. Manufacturing dates ranged from July to January.

This isn't with special "cranked" up settings like you suggest - this is using the DEFAULT settings from the factory in showrooms that have good amounts of light. The problem is even worse in a dark room.

If you are happy with spending $3k on a TV with a major defect, good for you. Trying to play a video game or watch a dark movie on my sets was a joke. I tried turning the settings down to where it eliminated the problem and the screen was so dark it looked horrible. And don't try and tell me I'm just being nitpicky - my wife and parents all noticed the problem as well and they are hardly videophiles.

Personally, I'll wait til Aug. for the new sets that will have the problem fixed and cost several hundred less (in addition to having 120Hz and LED). If you are happy spending primo bucks on mediocrity though, more power to you.


Yes I was happy I spent my money on this TV because mine does not have any defects. Like any mass-produced product, some are going to be defective. There were a small percentage of these which had worse than usual backlight uniformity but the vast majority of people who have bought this TV have panels that are just fine. Because of this invention called the internet, these few people were able to make their voice heard but as always the majority of people with acceptable sets were silent. And trust me, I know what I am talking about here. I researched this set, and this issue, for quite some time before and after I purchased mine. I am posting my observations after that research. For example, I saw a number of really picky people on certain forums posting claiming that they had defective sets because they could see non-uniform backlights only when they adjusted the settings well beyond normal viewing standards (not saying you did this, it's just what I saw). These people probably did not have defective sets. I have seen sets with the clouding issue and it is clearly visible even with settings turned down very low. I'm sorry you had the bad luck of having a bad batch in your area, but that is not indicitive of the norm. It is ludicrous to attack me and reject my entire analysis of the situation based on your single case. I'm trying to offer people a realistic view of the situation rather than ridiculously claiming that nearly every single set is defective when in reality only a small percentage are. This percentage may be slightly higher than the normal allowance for defects in this case, but is still quite small.

[LostTivo]

Yes I was happy I spent my money on this TV because mine does not have any defects. Like any mass-produced product, some are going to be defective. There were a small percentage of these which had worse than usual backlight uniformity but the vast majority of people who have bought this TV have panels that are just fine. Because of this invention called the internet, these few people were able to make their voice heard but as always the majority of people with acceptable sets were silent. And trust me, I know what I am talking about here. I researched this set, and this issue, for quite some time before and after I purchased mine. I am posting my observations after that research. For example, I saw a number of really picky people on certain forums posting claiming that they had defective sets because they could see non-uniform backlights only when they adjusted the settings well beyond normal viewing standards (not saying you did this, it's just what I saw). These people probably did not have defective sets. I have seen sets with the clouding issue and it is clearly visible even with settings turned down very low. I'm sorry you had the bad luck of having a bad batch in your area, but that is not indicitive of the norm. It is ludicrous to attack me and reject my entire analysis of the situation based on your single case. I'm trying to offer people a realistic view of the situation rather than ridiculously claiming that nearly every single set is defective when in reality only a small percentage are. This percentage may be slightly higher than the normal allowance for defects in this case, but is still quite small.

Right, I'm sure Sony is just shipping all the bad sets to my town and has been doing so since July. I'm sure the 8 out of 8 sets I have personally checked out that were using the *DEFAULT SETTINGS* are just an anomoly and I'm sure the 70% of people on AVSForum are also just a "small minority" (and that number doesn't take into account people who have swapped for other bad sets like myself).

Frankly, your conclusion is ludicrous given that apparently your only "analysis" was from looking at a couple photos people had posted online. If you got a good one, great for you -- consider yourself lucky. But don't try claiming the vast majority of people who are upset with their sets are doing so without merit and are just "picky".

If you want to put your money where your mouth is, trade your perfect set for one of the guys on AVSForum that have a brand new one still in the return timeframe. If you are so confident you can get another good one (and it will have a brand new warranty), what is there to lose?

[astrohip]

Yes I was happy I spent my money on this TV because mine does not have any defects.

But don't try claiming the vast majority of people who are upset with their sets are doing so without merit and are just "picky".
I won't step into this quagmire between you two, but I'll continue to throw my .02 in a different direction. :D

I think the vast majority who are upset are legit. My contention is this vast majority is only a small minority of total sales.

[RFEngineer]

On my August-build 46XBR2 you can see some clouding.

But to get it to show you need to turn the backlight up to MAX, turn off the room-light monitor function, display a black image, and completely darken the room.

Remove any one of those criteria and it is gone.

I've >never< seen it when configured properly for my room-environment.

[DrewTivo]

I wish this set had a CableCARD, since my cable company can't get their act together it would be nice to have another CableCARD device besides the S3.

Check, but I believe the XBR2 version has CableCard, and it was dropped for the XBR3 version.

[barbeedoll]

I had the same dilemma, and purchased the XBR3. It is fantastic.

For me the deciding factor was that someone pointed out that with the black bezel around the screen the empty space at the sides of channels which currently only broadcast in analogue are less noticeable.

I found this to be true when comparing the models. At home, I barely notice when the picture size changes (except for the obvious quality differences inherent between analog and HD. The black in the empty space just blends into the black bezel.

When viewing at an angle, I have no distortion.

Barbeedoll

[astrohip]

Check, but I believe the XBR2 version has CableCard, and it was dropped for the XBR3 version.

Wrong. Per my post above, there is NO electronic or feature difference between the XBR2/XBR3. Cosmetic, warranty, remote; but the guts work identically.

[beno6789]

Mike,
You said that you wished the Bravia XBR2 or 3 came with a cable card slot. I have WOW cable and am able to tune the standard HD channels directly through the TV without Cable Card. Of course I don't get premium content but I do get basic HD channels. I recommend this to anyone with a TV that includes HD tuner. Not sure if all cable companies support tis but obviously Wide Open West does! :)

[Mike Farrington]

Mike,
You said that you wished the Bravia XBR2 or 3 came with a cable card slot. I have WOW cable and am able to tune the standard HD channels directly through the TV without Cable Card. Of course I don't get premium content but I do get basic HD channels. I recommend this to anyone with a TV that includes HD tuner. Not sure if all cable companies support tis but obviously Wide Open West does! :)Yes, it has a QAM tuner. But that doesn't help me in debugging S3 CableCARD issues. I can't tell you how many times I was told "You must have a defective TiVo" because Comcast couldn't get things to work. Having a second CableCARD device (such as a television) would have helped me better call BS on them.

[Cpen]

Wrong. Per my post above, there is NO electronic or feature difference between the XBR2/XBR3. Cosmetic, warranty, remote; but the guts work identically.

Not sure that's entirely true - there is a software update available for the XBR2 - follow the "Software Update Information" link from this page (http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/model-documents.pl?mdl=KDL40XBR2).

You'll see that Sony Specifically states (for the software update - which ships on a USB key): "Please be sure the model numer indicated on the USB device matches the model number on your TV because there is a difference between the XBR2 and XBR3 models."

It would seem that there is some software or other electronic difference between the two...

I have an XBR3 running with an S3 TiVo - the XBR3 is a stunning set - I have no "clouding" issues with mine (my first one had clouds - like astrohip, I know what a bad/cloudy XBR2/3 looks like - they're out there and it's a shame). Nicest LCD you can get IMHO.

-C-

[astrohip]

Interesting point. I have asked in the AVS forum why the difference in the update firmware. I'll report back what I find.

Thanks for catching this!

[starbar77]

just thought i had to mention Sony do not manufacture flat panels, they buy them from one of the 5 companies who do, currently LG.
would you buy an LG?

just thought i'd throw that in there.

[supasta]

There is an overall update to the Bravia engine, or so I was told at BestBuy. v2 vs v3 of the Bravia engine. Side-by-side there is a definite difference.

[scorley22]

I have read about Sony sets having some sort of problems with S3's (can't remember any specifics, but I do know that some people had come to the conclusion that it was a Sony specific problem)... Anyway, I was thinking about getting the 50" SXRD and am wondering if anyone is having any issues with their Sony's.

[DeathRider]

just thought i had to mention Sony do not manufacture flat panels, they buy them from one of the 5 companies who do, currently LG.
would you buy an LG?

just thought i'd throw that in there.

Actually, I would buy an LG. On my 2nd LG phone...pretty much the best phones Verizon Wireless has....

I hve no quams buying anything made in South Korea...

I was under the impression most of the Sony panels are Samsung, not LG:
http://www.physorg.com/news72110476.html

http://news.com.com/Samsung,+Sony+join+forces+on+LCDs/2100-1041_3-5171753.html

[DCIFRTHS]

Hmm, I would debate that. The issue exists. No doubt. OTOH, it is not universal. I have two of these units, my brother has one. None of our three have the clouding issue. And yes, I have seen a unit that had it, so I know what to look for.

Yes, it exists. I have no idea what percent are affected, but it is not 100%, and in my case, it's 0%.

And it's a great LCD HDTV!

You are a lucky person! I went through three sets, and they all have the clouds. My fist set, which was made in August, is the best one of the bunch, and it's the one I decided to keep. The other two were November builds IIRC. What bothers me more than the clouds is the flashlight effect. Basically, it is backlight leakage, and in my case, it is visible on all four corners of the screen. It is annoying in dark scenes, and when a show is letterboxed.

If this were my main set, I would not be able to keep it.

There is a software update for many of the sets out there, and you need to check with Sony if it applies to a particular set. They base it on serial number. Unfortunately, it is being reported that the software does not correct the clouding issue. Here is a link to the bulletin that Sony posted. (http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/news-item.pl?mdl=KDL40XBR2&news_id=168)

Only your eyes can decide if you don't like the clouds or flashlight effect - if you see it at all. My suggestion, is that you purchase from a store that has a 30 day money back policy.

As far as the differences between the XBR2 and XBR3 - the bezel, remote, warranty and service manuals are the only discernible differences. Unfortunately, I haven't gone through the manuals to see if there are any differences between them.

[DCIFRTHS]

... I've >never< seen it when configured properly for my room-environment.

I also have my settings adjusted for my room. I like a natural looking picture with not too much color. As an example, my backlight is at two (it goes to ten).

I can't enjoy a movie like The Descent on my set because of the light leakage in the corners.

[DCIFRTHS]

Here is the link to the AVS thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=748779&page=1&pp=60) regarding clouds.

[Mike Farrington]

Not sure that's entirely true - there is a software update available for the XBR2 - follow the "Software Update Information" link from this page (http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/model-documents.pl?mdl=KDL40XBR2).

You'll see that Sony Specifically states (for the software update - which ships on a USB key): "Please be sure the model numer indicated on the USB device matches the model number on your TV because there is a difference between the XBR2 and XBR3 models."

It would seem that there is some software or other electronic difference between the two...Maybe. Maybe not. It could be something as simple as having them both display the proper model name on one of the diag screens. It would be interesting to do a binary comparison of the two firmware updates.

[astrohip]

just thought i had to mention Sony do not manufacture flat panels, they buy them from one of the 5 companies who do, currently LG.
would you buy an LG?

just thought i'd throw that in there.

The LCD panel may be manuf by a variety of sources. The electronics that make a TV a "TV" are Sony specific.

[astrohip]

There is an overall update to the Bravia engine, or so I was told at BestBuy. v2 vs v3 of the Bravia engine. Side-by-side there is a definite difference.
(Best Buy, the SOAK in consumer electronics :D )

I would disagree. I have both, and for a while, had them side-by-side. No difference. I was doing all sorts of goofy stuff, comparing an S3 to an SA8300HD vs SD vs component vs HDMi... you get the idea. I wanted to see what I could see. For example, I could discern no diff between component & HDMI. I *did* see a difference between SD on the S3 vs the SA. And I could see no variance at all between the XBR2 and the XBR3. None.

And unless Sony is hiding something, both units use ver 2.5 of the Bravia engine.

[Cpen]

I agree w/Astrohip.

From what I've read, functionally, the XBR2/3 are identical on paper. Yes, the XBR2 is silver, w/swappable bezels and a 12 month warranty - compared to the XBR3's permanent piano black bezel, black remote and 18 month warranty.

However, I've compared them side by side in the store. If they are different, only Sony knows why/how...

[pbrass]

Just my $.02, we have the 40" XBR2 and have been blown away by it. It replaced an aging 32" XBR CRT bought back in ~1995 or so. The only time I've seen any type of clouding on it was when the set was tuned to an input with no signal. I've never seen any indication of it when watching anything with an actual picture. (My wife and I are fairly picky about video quality - who here isn't? - and believe we would have noticed)

Overall, we're thrilled with it even though I think the price was still a little high ($2500 at Circuit City... no interest/payments for 18 months). Plenty of places to get it cheaper, but the finance deal was too good to pass up.

[TostitoBandito]

Right, I'm sure Sony is just shipping all the bad sets to my town and has been doing so since July. I'm sure the 8 out of 8 sets I have personally checked out that were using the *DEFAULT SETTINGS* are just an anomoly and I'm sure the 70% of people on AVSForum are also just a "small minority" (and that number doesn't take into account people who have swapped for other bad sets like myself).

Frankly, your conclusion is ludicrous given that apparently your only "analysis" was from looking at a couple photos people had posted online. If you got a good one, great for you -- consider yourself lucky. But don't try claiming the vast majority of people who are upset with their sets are doing so without merit and are just "picky".

If you want to put your money where your mouth is, trade your perfect set for one of the guys on AVSForum that have a brand new one still in the return timeframe. If you are so confident you can get another good one (and it will have a brand new warranty), what is there to lose?

I've looked at a lot more than a couple pictures, and many sets in person. I've seen some defective sets and many good sets. Before you go touting your avsforum "data", consider that probably at least 90% of the people who buy this set have never visited that site and many who have and have purchased good working sets don't post. As with any kind of online feedback the negative is going to be hugely disproportionately represented compared to the positive. If 70% of the total sets were indeed defective, you would be seeing Sony and many of the stores scrambling all over the place since their return rates would be enormous across the board. That hasn't happened.

No I'm not going to trade my set with someone. Why the hell would I do that and what on earth does it have to do with what we are discussing? You also might want to reconsider how you conduct yourself on forums like this. Personal attacks and claiming people's informed posts as "nonsense" are generally frowned upon.

[bareyb]

Are these models suffering from the uneven backlighting "clouds" I've been reading about on Sony HDTV's?

I have a new 50 inch Bravia and it doesn't have any backlight clouding. The picture is stunning. People that come over comment on how amazing the picture is.