Why is Tivo the only technology that gets more expensive over time?

[clovis8]

I bought a Tivo a year ago and want to upgrade to the 80 hour one, however, every time I look the thing cost more than the last time! They now want $269 no rebates. Every other technology goes down in price over time. Am I missing something here?

[Turtleboy]

You're missing how much the original Tivos cost.

[clovis8]

I paid $250 last year and that included one year subscription.

[MikeMar]

ummm aren't 80 hour ones basically free right now?

I know i got a dual tuner for like $60 after rebates

[seattlewendell]

I see the 80 hour for $69 on tivo.com
I also see the 160 hour for $169 on tivo.com
I do not see any $269 Tivo's.
Are you referring to the prepaid monthly fees?

[Ruth]

In 1999/2000, a 30-hour TiVo cost $999. A 30-hour TiVo, with the very earliest software (no MRV, no network capacity, IIRC not even Wishlists or padding yet).

Tell me again how prices have gone up over time?

[dswallow]

The TiVo hardware prices haven't gone up, but the service prices have. At least in the sense of shorter-term commitment periods.

[Nfuego]

Do you have a series 2? Why don't you just put in a bigger hard drive and make the one you have 200 hour or more?

[ADent]

I paid $200 in Aug 2000 for my 14 hour unit (and $200 for a 60GB drive to upgrade it to 70 hours).

Then I paid $200 for lifetime service in Sep 2001 ($9.95/month from 8/2000 to 9/2001)

And I paid $100 for my DTiVo in Nov 2001 (and should have bought lifetime for $200).

[CrispyCritter]

I paid $200 in Aug 2000 for my 14 hour unit (and $200 for a 60GB drive to upgrade it to 70 hours).
And I paid $100 for my DTiVo in Nov 2001 (and should have bought lifetime for $200).Almost all of these prices (here and in the other posts in this thread) are heavily subsidized by either TiVo or DirecTV. The only "real" price posted was the intro $999 DirecTiVo price. So price comparison is just comparing the amount of subsidy at that time, not the price of manufacture.

The only non-subsidized TiVo that TiVo itself has ever sold is the S3. I don't know where the OP got the $269 price from, but in my view that's very close to what the "real price" (ie, one that includes a normal amount of profit) is for the 80 hour S2DT.

[classicsat]

I bought a Tivo a year ago and want to upgrade to the 80 hour one, however, every time I look the thing cost more than the last time! They now want $269 no rebates. Every other technology goes down in price over time. Am I missing something here?

That is likely the DT model, which has ethernet and a second tuner and encoder. Given time it might come down.

[Einselen]

When Tivo first came out the 14 Hr Box was $499 and 30 Hr was $999. You then had to pay for service which was $9.95/month, $99/year or $199 for lifetime.

[wdave]

service ... was $9.95/month, $99/year or $199 for lifetime.
What a no-brainer that was back then.

[Billy66]

When Tivo first came out the 14 Hr Box was $499 and 30 Hr was $999. You then had to pay for service which was $9.95/month, $99/year or $199 for lifetime.

Actually $699 for a 14 hour.

What a no-brainer that was back then.

I opted for LT for certain, but many people were afraid they wouldn't like it or that the service would go away etc. On this forum, it was one of the most often asked questions "LT or Monthly??"

Now it's like $20 a month unless you want to commit for a long time and pay up front. That never would have flown in the early days.

[Einselen]

Actually $699 for a 14 hour.


I quoted $499 for 14 hr from a Havard Business School Case Study that was revised January 18, 2001. It is case number 9-501-038. I am not saying they are correct but that is where I got that number.

Edit: Corrected case study number

[Billy66]

Awesome research!

I'm quoting $699 from my Sears receipt. :p

Harvard students don't know squat about TiVo! :)

[dswallow]

I quoted $499 for 14 hr from a Havard Business School Case Study that was revised January 18, 2001. It is case number 9-501-308. I am not saying they are correct but that is where I got that number.
I believe intro prices were $499 for 14-hour and $999 for 30-hour for TiVo and $699 for ReplayTV. ReplayTV of course came with "lifetime service" so they were effectively equally priced.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,31137,00.html
http://www.m2w.net/News/990339.html

At some point a little later prices were $399 for the 14-hour and $699 for the 30-hour.

[Einselen]

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,31137,00.html
http://www.m2w.net/News/990339.html


Nice research! Gold star for you.

[Billy66]

I must have been including the LT I paid. I'm arrogant enough that I will check my receipt when i get home, but realistic enough to expect it to show $499 at this point. :)

[MikeMar]

Well we all can agree that the prices of Tivo's has dropped :)

[Billy66]

Yep, used to be insane price for hardware and reasonable service fees. Now, reasonable hardware price, insane service fees and commitments.

The hardware has gone down and the service price has doubled for a monthly subscriber.

[Einselen]

The hardware has gone down and the service price has doubled for a monthly subscriber.

However, how many additional features are now included? Not saying it is worth the price hike (which 1 yr will be dropping soon?) but $12.95 vs. $9.95 I think is worth it for TTG alone.

[Billy66]

I think it's $19.95 if you buy your first Tivo today and want to go monthly as you would have back in 1999.

TTG came too late to be valuable to me as the hackers provided something better and much sooner, but feature wise the Tivo is clearly better.

Back then there was no:

SPM
Recording History
TiVomatic
The unit would not keep it's place when you left a recording (virtual pause)
No Wishlists
Obviously no networking or HMO
Lineup change required you to redo guided setup (5 hours)
And others that I'm not remembering now.

[mick66]

I think it's $19.95 if you buy your first Tivo today and want to go monthly as you would have back in 1999.



There are no new month to month plans like there were from '99 to '06. The $19.95/mo rate is for a 1 year commitment.

[Billy66]

But it's paid monthly not upfront right? There's some kind of dsicount if you pay upfront for one year I believe.

Trying to get as close to apples to apples as possible. You're right though, the price is double AND you have to commit for an entire year.

[MaryT]

I paid $400 for a Sony model right after they came out in May 2000.

[ADent]

Almost all of these prices (here and in the other posts in this thread) are heavily subsidized by either TiVo or DirecTV. The only "real" price posted was the intro $999 DirecTiVo price. So price comparison is just comparing the amount of subsidy at that time, not the price of manufacture.




How is $400 I paid for a new unit with lifetime subsidized? Subsidized by the $0 monthly fee?

[TiVoStephen]

The 14-hour unit Philips Series1 unit was $699 when we launched in March of 1999. At some point later it went down to $499.

[mick66]

But it's paid monthly not upfront right?


Yes, the $19.95 is paid monthly, but you can also pay $14.9/mo. or even $12.95 every month just like people have been doing for years, with one big exception - You have to commit to two or three years.

My point is that you can not say the equivalent of the old month to month rate is the $19.95/mo one year commitment period rate when there are three monthly commitment period rates.

[Billy66]

Right, the $19.95 rate is the closest although it does require more of the borrower than the $9.95 rate did. The other rates are further away as the commitment grows. Thus the $19.95 rate is in fact the closest right?

I mean if we're gong to use $999 as the base hardware price, then we have to use the service and commitment levels that came along with that. A commitment has a value or TiVo wouldn't ask it of their customers, so the old rate was $9.95/mo, the new rate is $19.95/mo plus the value of a one year commitment. A customer can now lower the amount due each month by increasing the value of the commitment part. None of that was required when hardware was $999.

[Billy66]

The 14-hour unit Philips Series1 unit was $699 when we launched in March of 1999. At some point later it went down to $499.

Thanks Stephen, I thought that was the case. Man I've never been so happy to have overpaid so much for something as I was getting that first 14 hour. remembering the change of life that followed is a nice memory to re-live.

[annenoe]

Yep, used to be insane price for hardware and reasonable service fees. Now, reasonable hardware price, insane service fees and commitments.

The hardware has gone down and the service price has doubled for a monthly subscriber.

This is a trend, moving towards steady income via subscriptions. Some of it is coming from the "street". You can't keep stock price up and stockholders happy unless you can show reliable growth. Subscriptions are one of those ways you can show guaranteed income. I suspect they got pressure to provide a more stable revenue model. It's fine dance between keeping your customers happy and keeping the street (aka greedy bastards) happy.

We all hate it as customers, but is probably the only way the company could survive. I'm very glad we were early adopters! I had a S1 with LT that I gave to my sister (it's still working), and we upgraded to 2 Series 2 as soon as they came out, again both with LT. As far as I'm concerned, I'm going to keep them as long as I can. (I currently don't have the HD/S3 problem b/c I'm with DirecTV and have the DirecTV HD Tivo DVR). Those (the original Tivo HD DVR for DirecTV) were $1000 when first released.

[annenoe]

got me curious
Circuit City on 02/15/03 80 hour Series 2 w/ LT $379.99
Circuit City on 10/18/03 40 hour Series 2 w/ LT $249.99

[bilbo]

I bought a Tivo a year ago and want to upgrade to the 80 hour one, however, every time I look the thing cost more than the last time! They now want $269 no rebates. Every other technology goes down in price over time. Am I missing something here?

It is $269 for one year prepaid for an 80 hour Series2 Dual Tuner (DT). I think you probably paid $250 last year for an 80 hour Series2 (Single Tuner). There are deals for Factory Reconditioned (Refurbished) 80 hour Series2 (Single Tuner) Tivos for $155 One Year Prepaid. Tivo does not appear to be selling new Series2 Single Tuner Tivos at this time.

If you bought a Tivo a year ago and like it, why do you want to prepay $269 for one year when you could prepay $369 for three years? Just a suggestion.

[MikeMar]

ummm are tv's technically more expensive for the size you get now?

I mean a 50" tv now costs probably a lot more than a 50" crt (non-hd) one did a while back.

am i wrong here?

same deal, it keeps getting better and the prices drop and go up for the new thing and then drop and go up for the new thing

yeah i know, no service contract for a tv

[bidger]

It will vary Mike. I picked up a 43" SONY RPTV for $1599 after price match in July of 2000. In Sept. 2005 I picked up a 42" SONY HDTV for the same $1599 using price match.

[SpiritualPoet]

TiVo has continued to improve technology (hardware and software) over the years. Granted, my Philips model, 30 hr., was $800 + $199 for a lifetime plan. It was highly restricted, however, and the picture quality wasn't that good at the lowest (worst) / basic quality, when compared to today's dual tuner TiVo machine model. The folks at TiVo, realizing that the competitor (bit the dust?) and that the only way to stay in business was to eliminate lifetime service on new machines sold by a specified date. Unfortunately, had I known this was going to happen, I would likely have bought 2 more machines and 2 more lifetime plans while they were still available. TiVo's wording wasn't concise about the elimination of lifetime plans. The elimination even caught retailers off guard. Nevertheless, I'm one for paying ongoing fees to keep the technology top-notch into the future. I'll always be a TiVo customer as long as TiVo continues to exist, and, as long as I live. Granted, TiVo's patents will some year end, allowing other firms to compete. (Not that I would change!) But until then, it's in TiVo's ballbark. I'm game. Aren't you?

[cwoody222]

I paid the same price in 1999 for a ReplayTV 2020 that I did for my TiVo Series3 (minus $199 lifetime transfer cost).

Seems like technology's getting cheaper if for the same price I get a MUCH better machine, no?


And isn't Windows Vista more expensive than previous versions? ;)

[steve614]

Unfortunately, had I known this was going to happen, I would likely have bought 2 more machines and 2 more lifetime plans while they were still available. TiVo's wording wasn't concise about the elimination of lifetime plans.


+1 on that.

As said before - opting for lifetime was a no-brainer.

[fergie8]

I've had TiVo service since December 2003. The price I pay now is the same as I paid when I signed up for service -- $12.95/mo. It's NOT gotten more expensive.

I added a second TiVo in July 2004. The cost of the second box was LESS than the first one I bought. The cost for service on the second box was $6.95/mo. It's NOT gotten more expensive since I added it.

OTOH, the cost of my cable service over the same period time HAS INCREASED in price on several occasions.

It seems to me that your provocative subject line is little more than that.

[jmoak]

Am I missing something here?Yes,
Yes you are.

[CraigHB]

I think we get a little spoiled with electronics. We're so used to things getting cheaper over time, we've come to expect it. OTH, my health insurance premiums have almost doubled since 2003. That's some seriously sick inflation.