Sky to offer TiVo Service??

[gazza]

What do you make of this?:


http://www.t3.co.uk/news/247/entertainment/other/tivo_for_sky_anytime

[yungee]

Fingers crossed they'll see the light.

They will have me as a guaranteed customer if they provide Tivo software on a device that does HD.

The only thing that slightly scares me is that "a device that provides Tivo functionality" sounds a little bit like "chocolate flavoured". ie doesn't contain any chocolate.

Let's hope it's the real deal!

[Pete77]

As well as supplying Hi-Def pics of whatever show takes your fancy, it’s been whispered that Murdoch and co are planning to throw in TiVo functionality to boot.

This would mean they’d be able to track everything you take a squizz at, from Premiership football to those tawdry teen soaps you’re secretly fond of, dumping similar content direct to your set top box. So you get more of what you want, when you want it.

I don't think its going to be a Tivo though. I think its going to be the Sky version of TopUpTv Anytime with the content coming down not via broadband (which is too expensive to be used for mass downloading still) but via lots of overnight broadcasting on time shared versions of the many currently off air stations overnight. And I bet the user interface will still be horrible.

Hopefully Virgin Media will see the light and realising that the Sky offering is a load of old tosh will sign a deal with Tivo to bring a product with far superior functionality to the marketplace and nock Sky off the top spot.

[aerialplug]

It's widely known that Sky are about to launch a "video on demand" service with selected programmes being downloaded by the second tuner when idle.

I think this is talking about tivoLIKE functionality, but I'd be happy tobe proven wrong.

[cwaring]

Limbering up to do Video On Demand battle with Virgin, rumours are flying that Sky are planning on landing a sucker punch before their main rival has even take their set top box out of it’s wrapping.
Virgin Media don't need to do anything. Both TW and NTL already have true VOD available now (http://www.telewestinfo.co.uk/teleport.shtml)*. Okay yes, there's not a lot in HD but that's only because...

a. Sky won't let them have their HD channels
b. NTL/TW don't want to pay what Sky are asking
c. Some other excuse.

... depending on who you ask :)

*It's called something else on NTL.

Plus, of course, the TVDrive has been available for some time on both NTL & TW. T3 need to get their facts straight :D

[Tony Hoyle]

Doesn't sound like this has anything to do with Tivo... the reporter just doesn't know what Tivo is.

"it’s been whispered that Murdoch and co are planning to throw in TiVo functionality to boot."

ok.

"This would mean they’d be able to track everything you take a squizz at, from Premiership football to those tawdry teen soaps you’re secretly fond of, dumping similar content direct to your set top box."

Doesn't sound remotely like Tivo to me.

"We’ll be playing with Anytime on TV in the next few days"

Now they're talking about Sky Anytime which is just a thing to finish off Topup TV Anytime (if it ever needed it) and nothing remotely Tivo-like at all.

All it is to me is more proof that Tivo of how bad Tivo marketing really is/was - even now nobody knows what it's supposed to be unless they're one of the few remaining users.

[Pete77]

Now they're talking about Sky Anytime which is just a thing to finish off Topup TV Anytime (if it ever needed it) and nothing remotely Tivo-like at all.

And as TopUpTv is run by a couple of former Sky directors the blatant desire to finish that company off with a copycat product with more content is probably the result of an incredibly petty Sky vendetta.

[Automan]

http://anytime.sky.com/about/tv.aspx

Automan.

[Pete77]

http://anytime.sky.com/about/tv.aspx

Automan.


"What You Get:-

*

Sky's pick of the best TV programmes, updated daily
*

Top quality movies to enjoy on a quiet night in
*

Episodes from top shows like Lost and Weeds
*

A great choice of kids' shows
*

Hidden gems that you might not have otherwise seen
*

Choose from up to 40 hours of TV"

I somehow find it unlikely that my taste and the taste of Sky program selectors trying to suit Mr and Mrs Average are likely to coincide.

This just Sky Anytime and not Tivo at all.

[aerialplug]

It's obvious from that web site that the only "on demand" content is going to be from Sky owned channels initially. I think I'd actually use the service oocasionally if they actually did a true sweep of the channels including BBC, Five etc.

I guess the only upshot of this for me is that the hard drive will be rattling for no apparent reason occasionally on the Sky+ box, (which to all intents and purposes is a Sky box, the way its being used at the moment).

[Tony Hoyle]

If it's anything like Tutv anytime is alleged to be it'll be full of gardening and lifestyle programmes. Let's just hope they don't take the UKTV stuff...


Sky have more bandwidth and more space on the boxes, but they're going to have to make choices, and they're going to choose the more 'popular' stuff.

OTOH look at the current Top 10 programmes on Sky1 according to BARB:

1 THE SIMPSONS (Sun 1832)
2 THE SIMPSONS (Wed 1900)
3 THE SIMPSONS (Wed 1932)
4 THE SIMPSONS (Tue 1900)
5 THE SIMPSONS (Mon 1900)
6 THE SIMPSONS (Fri 1932)
7 THE SIMPSONS (Sun 1934)
8 THE SIMPSONS (Sun 1802)
9 STARGATE ATLANTIS (Wed 2001)
10 THE SIMPSONS (Sun 1902)

So, I can guess the lineup...

[Raisltin Majere]

Sorry,


OTOH?

I've always wondered...

[tonywalk]

On The Other Hand.

HTH,
Tony.

[yungee]

On The Other Hand. (Alternatively).

[Raisltin Majere]

Ah, thanks chaps. I've always been a bit embarrassed to ask before!

[Pete77]

Sorry,


OTOH?

I've always wondered...

All examples of horrid text speech creeping into a medium where they aren't required.

The below wikipedia list may help, although I like you usually wonder what these abbreviations stand for. The only one I usually recognise because I see it so often is AFAIK (As Far As I Know).

See www.webopedia.com/quick_ref/textmessageabbreviations.asp

[kitschcamp]

All examples of horrid text speech creeping into a medium where they aren't required.
Not text speak at all. TLAs and ETLAs have been a foundation of internet communications for many many years. I've been using them since before GSM (and ergo "text speak") was readily available in the UK.

[ColinYounger]

I was using TLAs back in the 80s - they were necessary because there was no (public) internet you were dialling up Bulleting boards (at 2400 baud - gasp!) and needed to use the bandwidth and time efficiently. Typing is money!

Bring back the days of ROTFL and AFAIK! IIRC. <goes misty eyed>

[cwaring]

IANAL so ICBW but I had to ROFLMAO when someone told me to RTFM. WTF?

Sorry, I started but couldn't finish :D I think Des O'Connor does an excellent TLA monologue.

[ColinYounger]

Carl - now you're talking sense. :p

[Rob Nespor Bellis]

TAAFT :D

Rgds,

R.

[iankb]

AcronymFinder.com (http://www.acronymfinder.com) is useful for decoding abbreviations.

[iankb]

... with the content coming down not via broadband (which is too expensive to be used for mass downloading still) ...They are all looking at using commercial versions of BitTorrent, etc, where the cost of operating central servers is massively reduced. I seem to remember that the BBC are going to be distributing content via Zudeo.com (http://www.zudeo.com/az-web/content/FeaturedContent.html), which uses the Azureus engine for downloading torrents.

Once they decide that the download is not going to happen in real-time, and that they need to be able to use a DRM-controlled client, it makes absolute sense to use peer-to-peer technology within that client. And if the client has to be open to view the content then, during that period, it will also be distributing that content to other downloaders in the background.

[cwaring]

TAAFT :D
I didn't even need to look that one up. Gee, thanks a lot :( ;)

[Pete77]

Once they decide that the download is not going to happen in real-time, and that they need to be able to use a DRM-controlled client, it makes absolute sense to use peer-to-peer technology within that client. And if the client has to be open to view the content then, during that period, it will also be distributing that content to other downloaders in the background.

But the main issue is you need a far more expensive broadband connection at home with no serious download constraints to watch a lot of broadband television. At the moment downloading caps seem to be getting more and more restrictive as BT Wholesale have not cut their prices for ages and their impending price cut in the summer does not seem adequate in relation to the huge uplift in levels of bandwidth now being consumed.

[worm]

To put on my pedant's hat for a moment.

Most of the above are really initialisms not acronyms - although the difference is a grey area, and let's face it, pretty unimportant.

(for those that care - purists insist that an acronym is not only formed from the initial letters of the relevant words, but that it is also pronounced as a word in its own right - such as NASA, NINO, PIN etc.)

I would never insist on not calling them acronyms, but I can't help pointing it out :)

'TLA' is a very (well...quite) interesting one, becuase it's usually taken to mean Three Letter Acronym, when in fact it's an initialism so could more accurately be taken as Three Letter Abbreviation - it's all a bit quantum.

I'll shut up now.

[cwaring]

I'll shut up now.
TFFT :D I'm all :confused: now.

[Pete77]

I'm sure part of this thread needs to be hived off into UK General Chit Chat as it is a massive divergence from the serious issue originally being discussed.

Perhaps I am just being intolerant though because I hate the now pointless use of these cliquey methods of communication. They did have some point in text messages before the invention of predictive texting technology.

[ColinYounger]

Worm - a majority disagree (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&hs=J9Z&defl=en&q=define:ACRONYM&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title)

[ColinYounger]

the serious issue originally being discussed.
Eh? *speculation* about Sky offering something that's not TiVo?

YMMV. :D

<shuffles off to another thread>

[TheBear]

It will be a web based service.

Basically, you'll be able to comtrol your Sky+ HD box remotely via the internet/mobile phone etc.

You'll be able to set series links via the website and specify programme genres, titles etc..etc and it'll instruct the box to record automagically over the air.

So..it will have a lot of TiVo like functionality but most of the clever stuff will be done by the website. The Sky box will merely be following commands issued by the website.

It's rather clever in that the hardware can be basic and new features added merely by updating the website front end.

[cwaring]

So something like Tivoweb then? Wow! That's new ;):p

[Raisltin Majere]

to 99% of people it will be :(

[blindlemon]

It's rather clever in that the hardware can be basic and new features added merely by updating the website front end.Sounds great - but I doubt if it will work reliably, and it won't address the fact that the Sky+ has a pile of poo UI and crashes so badly on a regular basis that you have to wipe all the recordings and start from scratch :down::p

Now, if they were to do what Comcast in the US have done and implement genuine TiVo software as an OTA upgrade, that would be an improvement :D

[Tony Hoyle]

It will be a web based service.

Basically, you'll be able to comtrol your Sky+ HD box remotely via the internet/mobile phone etc.


No that's something different. Sky were going to roll that out with the mobile phone version (which is already available, again different to the advertised 'sky mobile' as it doesn't offer streaming video & doesn't require a 3g phone) .

You can guarantee that the web version will be identical to the mobile phone - the Sky crappy UI implemented as a java applet.

Sky anytime does not require a PC - it's video downloaded onto the reserved capacity of the box (exactly like Tivo did years ago but with dual tuners should be less intrusive).

[TheBear]

It'll be slightly different to the mobile phone thing, although the mobile phone thing will be part of it.

The website is the clever part and will feature a lot of tivo-like functionality. The website will simply tell the Sky box over the air that it's got to "record Sky one at 8pm on Tuesday for an hour"-there'll be no real changes to the existing Sky+ boxes as the boxes will be controlled from Sky's end.

[katman]

It'll be slightly different to the mobile phone thing, although the mobile phone thing will be part of it.

The website is the clever part and will feature a lot of tivo-like functionality. The website will simply tell the Sky box over the air that it's got to "record Sky one at 8pm on Tuesday for an hour"-there'll be no real changes to the existing Sky+ boxes as the boxes will be controlled from Sky's end.

Be interesting to see how it will deal with clashes !!!!

Even though it has twin tuners, because of the way broadcasters schedule good programes for Prime Time we often find that SKY+ is recording two programs and Tivo recording one from the Multiroom box in the evening ..... then they sit there not recording because there is only rubbish on the TV.

They will obviously have to prioritise recordings in some way because the website would have no knowledge of what the box was already doing, so would the newly requested program be ignored as two scheduled recordings already existed, or would the new one replace one of the existing recordings, in which case....how does it decide which one to cancel. ???

Be interesting to see how it works out.

[aerialplug]

I can't see how it can have half the functionality of TivoWeb. There's no immediate backchannel available so how can it reliably serve up the equivalent of the Now Playing list.

And I bet there'll be no ways of uploading logos either.

Pathetic. ;)

Still - being able to program Sky+ without having to interrupt a recording being made by TiVo would be a real boon - there are a couple of times where using Sky+ to record one sky only programme while TiVo's using the other tuner would have been nice - but TiVo was already using the video chanel.

[AMc]

But half the functionality of TivoWeb is still a massive leap forward in terms of the general population - remember not even standard Tivos have TivoWeb so it really is an esoteric 'product' for comparison.

I know a little bit about the project from a previous job as I understand it it is quite a smart combination of information about programming from their EPG and about individual viewer preferences.

I think it would be niave to assume that Sky bought a local loop unbundling ISP just to offer a spoiler product to cable internet. I would expect them to start using it for true video on demand before long. One of the key weaknesses of VOD is the user gets 'blinded by choice'. Think about a trip to your video store - all those tapes and DVDs but I bet you mostly look at the new releases on the big displays. If you can start to make recommendations based on previous viewing, personal preferences and aggregated viewing preferences then you stand a better chance of encouraging users to fork out for new content on a pay per play basis.

I know to a Tivo user this is (fairly) old hat, but look at Sky's subscriber base vs. ours and you can see this is a leap forward for a lot of people.

A lot of people complain that their Tivo suggestions are rubbish (continuous Simpsons) - IMHO that stems from the lack of attention given to the UK database and the lack of a 'reverse channel' back from Tivos tracking real viewing to guide the recommendations. I suspect that both of these will be addressed by Sky's larger user base and investment in the 'new' idea of adding programming to Sky+ on spec.

[kitschcamp]

I can't see how it can have half the functionality of TivoWeb. There's no immediate backchannel available so how can it reliably serve up the equivalent of the Now Playing list.
It could dial back to the internet on an 0898 number ;)

[Pete77]

It could dial back to the internet on an 0898 number ;)

We don't have 0898 any more kitschcamp in the UK. Its been a while since you left.

Nowadays we either have overt premium rate 09 numbers with proper call cost disclosure or the cancerous world of 084/7 numbers that pretend to be local/national rate but are in fact covert premium rate and excluded from all inclusive fixed price call plans.

See the Discussion forum at www.saynoto0870.com

[TCM2007]

We don't have 0898 any more kitschcamp in the UK. Its been a while since you left.

Nowadays we either have overt premium rate 09 numbers with proper call cost disclosure or the cancerous world of 084/7 numbers that pretend to be local/national rate but are in fact covert premium rate and excluded from all inclusive fixed price call plans.

See the Discussion forum at www.saynoto0870.com

I thought I was pedantic!

[DeadKenny]

The mobile app actually looks pretty cool. It's some kind of Java app I think and gives you the Sky+ interface for the TV Guide. It's a bit neater than trying to browse with a mobile web browser.