Poll: Would you pay more for DirecTV/Tivo integrated DVR?

[goony]

A poll for those that have one or more DirecTV receivers with integrated DVR,
or those that are planning to in the future.
----------------------------------
Comcast appears to be convinced that its customers are willing to pay more for an improved DVR experience, thus their partnering with Tivo to produce a Comcast Tivo-based DVR... so why not DirecTV?

Personally, I would be willing to pay a higher per-month DirecTV to have a Tivo-based DirecTV integrated DVR. It is possible that DirecTV explored something like this but never considered it viable and assumed that enough Joe Sixpack customers don't care about a "premium DVR experience" to bother doing it.

I have no idea what the support costs would be for DirecTV to have two separate DVR lines, but as I suggested in another topic I believe the support costs for the "mature" DirecTV code base would have to be less than what they are experiencing with the NDS-based DirecTV DVRs (recent guide data issues not withstanding).

If there are enough "I would pay more" type responses I will run a second poll to find out how much more per month you would be willing to pay.

And, of course, the poll isn't going to be very reflective of the general DirecTV DVR user since this forum is mainly for DTivo fans... perhaps I could run the same poll at AVSFORUM.COM as well.

[goony]

Aw crap - I should have included a "I prefer a non-Tivo DirecTV integrated DVR" item in my poll. Oh well. :rolleyes:

[DonDon]

Some bean counter at DTV has already determined that at least on paper they can make more money by developing and leasing their own DVR and not licensing and having them built by someone else. :rolleyes:

At this point they don't care what we want, we must live with our existing equipment until it dies or we must pay them a monthly fee forever to use their crappy equipment that does not work very well. :eek:

For the record, yes, I would pay 10-12 bux a month for DVR service, but don't let DTV know. It's only 6 for my 2 units now.

Don

[HiDefGator]

Comcast appears to be convinced that its customers are willing to pay more for an improved DVR experience, thus their partnering with Tivo to produce a Comcast Tivo-based DVR... so why not DirecTV?


Actually my belief is that Comcast has partnered with Tivo solely to prevent a lawsuit from Tivo. The agreement was reached almost exactly at the same time Tivo won their initial trial against Echostar.

The deal is structured so that Comcast loses nothing if customers turn out to not be willing to pay extra for the Tivo software upgrade.

There are roughly 100 million combined cable\sat customers out there. Less than 5% of those customers have ever used a Tivo.

[goony]

Actually my belief is that Comcast has partnered with Tivo solely to prevent a lawsuit from Tivo. The suit would (probably) be brought against the cable DVR box maker (Motorola, Scientific Atlanta, etc.) and/or the company that makes the software for the box. Comcast wouldn't be the target but could get caught in any fallout, thus their "let's make friends" policy.

[20TIL6]

Actually my belief is that Comcast has partnered with Tivo solely to prevent a lawsuit from Tivo. The agreement was reached almost exactly at the same time Tivo won their initial trial against Echostar.

The deal is structured so that Comcast loses nothing if customers turn out to not be willing to pay extra for the Tivo software upgrade.

There are roughly 100 million combined cable\sat customers out there. Less than 5% of those customers have ever used a Tivo.
I don't think that is true, timing-wise.

I think the TiVo/Comcast deal was announced sometime in 2005. That's why we've had all the "Why is it taking so long" reports from analysts.

TiVo won their judgement against E* in Texas in April of 2006. It was during the week prior to the ruling that DTV came to the table to get their 3 year extended support agreement with TiVo.

So while it can be argued why Comcast signed up, maybe they feared lawsuit, maybe not. The agreement was several months before the judgement. But timing-wise, I'm pretty sure DTV negotiated their agreement because of some patent uncertainty. And the same could be said for Cox; they signed on right before the E* injunction was handed down.

Either way, based upon what that last WSJ article said about Comcast's generic DVR, I think the Comcast/TiVo will spread like wildfire. I really do.

[samo]

The suit would (probably) be brought against the cable DVR box maker (Motorola, Scientific Atlanta, etc.) and/or the company that makes the software for the box. Comcast wouldn't be the target but could get caught in any fallout, thus their "let's make friends" policy.
I don't know about Scientific Atlanta, but Motorola DVRs are made under license from Replay who settled with Tivo some 5-6 years (Replay filed a law suit against TiVo, TiVo filed counter-suit and they settled by cross-licensing). Later Replay was purchased by D&M for $40 mils, a real bargain considering how much E* is spending on TiVo law suit and how much it cost DirecTV (3 years of extra license fees amounts to about $70 mils) to prevent TiVo from law suit.

[samo]

The deal is structured so that Comcast loses nothing if customers turn out to not be willing to pay extra for the Tivo software upgrade.


Not exactly. Comcast paid TiVo $10 mils upfront to develop the software.

[WRT]

Even though I have lifetime TiVo service on my "crippled, frozen-in-time" DTV TiVo, I might be willing to pay a few dollars per month if they would add full TiVo features to it (TTG, folders, etc.). At least give us folders, please!

If DTV ever kills its TiVo service and tells me that I have to get one of their generic DVRs, then I will totally disconnect my DTV service. And that is a promise.

[20TIL6]

A poll for those that have one or more DirecTV receivers with integrated DVR,
or those that are planning to in the future.
----------------------------------
Comcast appears to be convinced that its customers are willing to pay more for an improved DVR experience, thus their partnering with Tivo to produce a Comcast Tivo-based DVR... so why not DirecTV?

Personally, I would be willing to pay a higher per-month DirecTV to have a Tivo-based DirecTV integrated DVR. It is possible that DirecTV explored something like this but never considered it viable and assumed that enough Joe Sixpack customers don't care about a "premium DVR experience" to bother doing it.

I have no idea what the support costs would be for DirecTV to have two separate DVR lines, but as I suggested in another topic I believe the support costs for the "mature" DirecTV code base would have to be less than what they are experiencing with the NDS-based DirecTV DVRs (recent guide data issues not withstanding).

If there are enough "I would pay more" type responses I will run a second poll to find out how much more per month you would be willing to pay.

And, of course, the poll isn't going to be very reflective of the general DirecTV DVR user since this forum is mainly for DTivo fans... perhaps I could run the same poll at AVSFORUM.COM as well.
And maybe run the same poll on dbstalk.com

[The Flush]

I could see paying a small amount more for a DTivo that is at least as functional as a hacked DTivo (MRV, HMO, TTG, etc).

[HiDefGator]

Not exactly. Comcast paid TiVo $10 mils upfront to develop the software.

10 million to avoid a lawsuit on the millions of generic dvrs handed out in the past and future seems like a heck of a deal to me.

[HiDefGator]

Either way, based upon what that last WSJ article said about Comcast's generic DVR, I think the Comcast/TiVo will spread like wildfire. I really do.

Why?

So customers that have not already gotten a free SA Tivo today will be willing to sign up for Tivo service tomorrow. If they hate the generic dvr so much why don't they already have a Tivo instead of the generic?

I just don't see cable customers signing up for an extra $5-10 on their bill every month for Tivo features when they think they have a Tivo already. For the same extra money they could get more stations instead.

Maybe it will be a success. But compared to the DTV deal where 100% of the DTV dvr's ran Tivo software, I don't see it as any where near as good for Tivo. If they get 15% of the DVR users to sign up for the Tivo upgrade I'll be amazed. Keep in mind that only Comcast Motorola DVR customers are eligible today (at least when it starts). That is not exactly a huge number to start with. 15% of that number is pretty darn small.

[mphare]

Basically, a DirecTiVo without the HMO/MRV hacks provides little over the R15.

Without the ability for larger harddrives, network access, web access I wouldn't care if it were TiVo software or not.

[Zephyr]

Paying enough as it is, particularly for units that likely will not be replaced with equivalent features. I came to D* because Charter Cable was so arrogant. When FIOS comes up the drive, the picture will change dramatically.

[20TIL6]

Why?

So customers that have not already gotten a free SA Tivo today will be willing to sign up for Tivo service tomorrow. If they hate the generic dvr so much why don't they already have a Tivo instead of the generic?

I just don't see cable customers signing up for an extra $5-10 on their bill every month for Tivo features when they think they have a Tivo already. For the same extra money they could get more stations instead.

Maybe it will be a success. But compared to the DTV deal where 100% of the DTV dvr's ran Tivo software, I don't see it as any where near as good for Tivo. If they get 15% of the DVR users to sign up for the Tivo upgrade I'll be amazed. Keep in mind that only Comcast Motorola DVR customers are eligible today (at least when it starts). That is not exactly a huge number to start with. 15% of that number is pretty darn small.
We will just have to wait and see I guess.

I don't think the upcharge has ever been disclosed though. Anyone who predicts $5-$10 has just as much reliability as me saying:

$1-$2, and it's a wash for Comcast.
Comcast positions TiVo as a key differentiator, and actively pushes it.
Comcast shares advertising revenue generated on the TiVo platform.

And you are right, I think there will be many people saying, "I thought I already had a TiVo, what's the difference?" :rolleyes:

[newsposter]

remind me why 5 bucks covers X number of dtivos but it costs (10+) a month - i know nothing about SA tivos - to get it thru them for EACH box. and I think until recently it was just one tuner right?

[dswallow]

And you are right, I think there will be many people saying, "I thought I already had a TiVo, what's the difference?" :rolleyes:
Getting them to at least ask that question is a huge gain.

[20TIL6]

Getting them to at least ask that question is a huge gain.
My point exactly.

[HiDefGator]

Has anyone heard mention of the Tivo software running on a non-HD Comcast dvr? If not then only the Comcast subs paying for HD today are eligible to upgrade.

[20TIL6]

Has anyone heard mention of the Tivo software running on a non-HD Comcast dvr? If not then only the Comcast subs paying for HD today are eligible to upgrade.
It almost sounds as though you seek to benefit from TiVo's lack of success.

But to your point:

Does anyone here know if the TiVo port is limited to only Comcast HD DVRs? I am totally unfamiliar with the different Comcast models.

If the port is designed to handle both HD and SD content, then would it not still work if it was only fed SD signals?

I have also never read any mention of the port being limited to a certain subset of Comcast DVR users (other than only Motorola at this time, with Scientific Atlanta coming). It has always been reported as a TiVo port to Comcast Motorola DVRs. No mention of only HD or SD.

[dswallow]

It almost sounds as though you seek to benefit from TiVo's lack of success.

But to your point:

Does anyone here know if the TiVo port is limited to only Comcast HD DVRs? I am totally unfamiliar with the different Comcast models.

If the port is designed to handle both HD and SD content, then would it not still work if it was only fed SD signals?

I have also never read any mention of the port being limited to a certain subset of Comcast DVR users (other than only Motorola at this time, with Scientific Atlanta coming). It has always been reported as a TiVo port to Comcast Motorola DVRs. No mention of only HD or SD.
I've only ever seen reference to Motorola 6412 and 3412 hardware followed by some unspecified Scientific Atlanta model(s).

I also have gotten the impression from elsewhere online that cable companies seem to be moving towards using the HD-capable DVR equipment by default.

[Gunnyman]

I have said many times over the years that I would pay TiVo directly either a 1 time lifetime fee or the 12.95 a month to have a full featured Directivo.
I still would.

[Arcady]

I wouldn't pay extra for DirecTiVo, since the picture quality is ass. Who cares if you have TiVo when the content looks like a macro-block nightmare?

I can already transfer these blocky shows around via MRV since I hacked my units years ago.

[Idearat]

Even though I have lifetime TiVo service on my "crippled, frozen-in-time" DTV TiVo, I might be willing to pay a few dollars per month if they would add full TiVo features to it (TTG, folders, etc.). At least give us folders, please!



You probably know that with a DirecTivo there's no lifetime TiVos, but lifetime accounts. So if you replaced your older Series 1 ( no folders ) with a Series 2 ( folders ) from Ebay you'd have your folders.

With the Zipper hack on the Series 2[DirecTiVo] you'll have HMO and other features as well, all while preserving your lifetime status and no additional monthly fees.

[HiDefGator]

It almost sounds as though you seek to benefit from TiVo's lack of success.


My goal is just to separate the hype from the reality. I'm not hoping for Tivo not to succeed, just ascertaining what proper expections should be.

[tbeckner]

I would pay more to use an integrated DirecTV TiVo over a non-TiVo DVR, and I would pay an additional premium for MRV (Multi Room Viewing).

At this point I don’t have to pay extra for my DirecTiVo boxes or MRV, but I would have been glad to.

Once a majority of my five DirecTiVo boxes are dead, I will no longer be a DirecTV customer, and I have been a DirecTV customer since 1994.

What a disservice DirecTV has done to about 3.5 million customers, it is a real crying shame. :down: