Transfer or not to transfer, why are some not transferring lifetime?

[russwong]

I'm still debating on transfering or not... what are the reasons some of you are not transferring your lifetime subscription from an S1/S2 to the S3?

I'm still trying to weigh all my reasons for and against...
- I don't need HD recording, because I have it via my HTPC (no it's not Tivo, but it's worked for 2 years for me.)
- I don't want my lifetime service to fade into the wind if this is the only opportunity to keep it alive (What about S4? S5? or when they figure out some of the issues they are having.)
- Is it better to keep my S2 and just do an S3 @ $6.95 a month (will the $6.95 multi unit discount stay? I'd lose money after 2.4 years.)
- Even the cheapest deal on the S3 + lifetime transfer is still $800
- I only subscribe to limited basic with HD and don't want Comcast messing with my bill unecessarily.
- I don't really need cablecard, because all the shows I record are on the unencrypted QAM channels and since I only subscribe to limited basic, those are the only ones I get.

What to do what to do??? Any thoughts?

[greg_burns]

- I don't really need cablecard, because all the shows I record are on the unencrypted QAM channels and since I only subscribe to limited basic, those are the only ones I get.

Your local HD channels may be on unencrypted QAM channels, but the Tivo guide data will likely be for different channel numbers. W/O cablecards doing the mapping you'll have to do manual recordings. :(

[russwong]

Your local HD channels may be on unencrypted QAM channels, but the Tivo guide data will likely be for different channel numbers. W/O cablecards doing the mapping you'll have to do manual recordings. :(

Yeah, I posted in the QAM mapping thread, but doesn't look like that thread is going anywhere.... if Tivo made it so I could map my guide channels, that would make the choice easier. Right now, I have to get cablecard and we all know how lame comcast can be...

[greg_burns]

Can you get cablecards if you only have basic cable?

I am just months away from dropping back to basic cable myself. I've been told I won't need to return my cablecards. We'll see.

[bidger]

I really can't afford a S3 right now and I don't believe I'll be making the window of opportunity for the VIP transfer, even though it's been extended. Part of my reasons for not rushing is:

1) I'm a D* customer so the S3 does nothing in my situation.

2) The D* HD DVRs can pick up ATSC OTA stations, which is all I'd be using the S3 for and there's only one in my area.

3) I have a HTPC and could just add a tuner card for that functionality if I felt I needed a separate HD DVR.

4) The VIP transfer is just $100 less than the current 3 year prepay, so if at some time in the future I decide to get a S3, the price may have come down enough to balance out that difference. I think a S3 without Lifetime still has better resale value than a SD TiVo without Lifetime.

Of course, my situation is probably different from yours. If I were a cable sub, I probably would have been chomping at the bit for the S3. I have found that after trying other DVRs I've found that TiVo's not the only solution for me. Two-three years from now who knows what kind of delivery methods we'll see.

[bidger]

Can you get cablecards if you only have basic cable?


I don't think you'd need Cable Card for just the channels that come in off the coaxial feed, Greg. The ones you don't need a set top box to unscramble.

[greg_burns]

I don't think you'd need Cable Card for just the channels that come in off the coaxial feed, Greg. The ones you don't need a set top box to unscramble.

I meant that I want/need to keep my cable cards for the QAM channel mappings it gives for the HD locals (that I will continue to get even with just basic cable).

[russwong]

I think getting a cable card with just basic cable is luck of the draw, just like how much cable cards cost. Some comcast places provide it for free, others charge. Some say you can have it with basic and others say you have to subscribe to digital classic.

IF I'm required to subscribe to digital classic, I wont be doing this for sure. Hence why I don't understand why Tivo wont support the mapping of unencrypted QAM with out cable card. I don't know about you, but the less I talk to the cable company the better and Tivo requiring me to use cable card is one huge selling point against going that route.

In my case, money isn't the issue, but that doesn't mean I like wasting money. I'm not entirely convinced $800 is worth it, but with ebay and resale value at $1200, it might be okay, but I don't want to sell it. I want to keep it. If they did the lifetime transfer like they did for the S2, I would be on it. The extra $200 is disappointing for me, especially since my S2 Tivo is now my 3rd recording option.

[CrispyCritter]

IF I'm required to subscribe to digital classic, I wont be doing this for sure. Hence why I don't understand why Tivo wont support the mapping of unencrypted QAM with out cable card.Because it costs lots of money to support and is guaranteed to cause people to get upset at TiVo for things outside of their control (when recordings are missed due to mapping changes)?

TiVo devotes resources (and get complaints) about changes in official channel schedules. Those are public and the cable companies tries very hard to get them correct. Even with the cable company on TiVo's side, there are problems.

The QAM mapping is private, and the cable companies are free to change it whenever they want to and tell no one about it. There's no incentive whatsoever for them to cooperate with TiVo and tell TiVo about the changes. It's just an additional bother and expense for the cable companies.

Long term, as I understand it, there will be channel identifying information in the signal (PSIP???) everywhere and things can be done automatically. But at the moment, only some cable systems are doing this, and in some places is not accurate. Once again, the cable companies could make it easier for third parties, but for some reason are not hurrying to do so. Sound familiar?

[bilbo]

i switched from comcast to fios in november. getting the s3 (and transferring the lifetime from my old s2) was a good move for me. the second standard definition digital cable box was $5 per month (i still have one standard def digital cable box that is included with verizon's monthly fios tv basic fee which is still hooked up to my newer humax s2). the cable card rental fee is $3 per month per card. so i pay an extra dollar per month to verizon to use my s3 (versus my old s2). not to mention that i am saving approximately $10 per month versus comcast and getting a whole lot more for my money (for both cable and internet) -- i've got 3-4 times more channels (including the hi-def channels) with fios (i didn't have a single digital cable box with comcast, and it still cost me more per month with comcast versus verizon).

[gwsat]

When I bought my S3 I already subscribed to Cox OKC’s digital cable package and rented an SA 8300HD DVR from them. Thus, I would have lost all programming information had I not subscribed to the TiVo Service. After having paid more than $600 for an S3, it seemed prudent to spring for another $200 to transfer Lifetime Service to it from my old S1. This way I have an integrated programming grid that shows and allows me to record both cable and OTA channels. Given what I had to pay to replace the 8300HD with an S3 plus the cost to transfer Lifetime Service to it, it probably can’t be justified based on economics alone. Nevertheless, you get what you pay for and I have been VERY happy so far.

I got my S3 a couple of weeks ago and have been reminded of why I was so frustrated with the first Cox HD box, an SA 8000HD, which I got in 2004. It was brutally limited and hard to use compared to my S1 and the current model, the 8300HD, is little better. Thus, I was willing to pay TiVo’s extortionate prices to escape the ghastly SARA software and rejoin the TiVo family. But for someone who has not had the use of either his cable company’s program guide nor TiVo’s service, the choice might be harder.

[russwong]

That seems to be a cop out answer, because all the HD caputure card manufacturers don't have an issues with it. All the TVs that can tune unencrypted QAM do it already and tie it to the TV Guide and seem to be okay with doing it. Tivo could easily say that it's an unsupported feature, like 30 second skip.

PSIP requires us to depend on the cable company again and as we can all see, that's not anything I would stake my companies success on.

Russ

Because it costs lots of money to support and is guaranteed to cause people to get upset at TiVo for things outside of their control (when recordings are missed due to mapping changes)?

TiVo devotes resources (and get complaints) about changes in official channel schedules. Those are public and the cable companies tries very hard to get them correct. Even with the cable company on TiVo's side, there are problems.

The QAM mapping is private, and the cable companies are free to change it whenever they want to and tell no one about it. There's no incentive whatsoever for them to cooperate with TiVo and tell TiVo about the changes. It's just an additional bother and expense for the cable companies.

Long term, as I understand it, there will be channel identifying information in the signal (PSIP???) everywhere and things can be done automatically. But at the moment, only some cable systems are doing this, and in some places is not accurate. Once again, the cable companies could make it easier for third parties, but for some reason are not hurrying to do so. Sound familiar?