Lip Sync on R10 to Plasma

[sisterzero]

Hello Friends,

I just got our first plasma hd set last night and though the picture is gorgeous, the lip sync delay using our R10 DTV Tivo is noticeable and very upsetting. From some research today I've learned that this is a "common" problem and that I can buy yet another "auxilliary" product as my wife calls it to delay the audio signal from the R10 to the Sony receiver. That's not gonna fly.

My question: I am awaiting an hr10-250 in the mail...will that improve the delay problem at all since it's designed to work with hdtvs, or is this just something I'm going to have to learn to live with.

Any suggestions? Don't make me go back to my old CRT television!!!!

[litzdog911]

Need more information ....

* Brand/model plasma TV?
* How is the Tivo connected to the TV (cables, connectors, inputs/outputs) -- especially your audio connections?
* How is the Tivo connected to your AV Receiver?
* What happens if you connect the R10 directly to the TV (both audio and video)?

The HR10-250 won't likely change this situation because it's not a problem you should be having.

[sisterzero]

Need more information ....

* Brand/model plasma TV?
* How is the Tivo connected to the TV (cables, connectors, inputs/outputs) -- especially your audio connections?
* How is the Tivo connected to your AV Receiver?
* What happens if you connect the R10 directly to the TV (both audio and video)?

The HR10-250 won't likely change this situation because it's not a problem you should be having.
Hi Litzdog911...I posted on dbstalk as well ("mrb1") so thanks for replying here too. In case others here might have ideas.....

Hitachi 42HDS69 plasma
R10 connection with S-vid (will swap to HR10-250 on monday via HDMI)
Tivo connected to Sony 5.1/DTS capable receiver via optical digital cable

I will try to change up the connections this evening and see what happens.

I agree it "should" not happen, but much of what I've discovered blowing off work today and surfing the web says that this could be typical for hdtv...the video up-processing takes longer to do than the audio processing at the receiver.

No way my wife will allow me to buy a $300 audio delay thing which some have suggested.

No one else has this with an hdtv set? Perhaps something really is wrong with mine!

[jmrife]

Hi Litzdog911...I posted on dbstalk as well ("mrb1") so thanks for replying here too. In case others here might have ideas.....

Hitachi 42HDS69 plasma
R10 connection with S-vid (will swap to HR10-250 on monday via HDMI)
Tivo connected to Sony 5.1/DTS capable receiver via optical digital cable

I will try to change up the connections this evening and see what happens.

I agree it "should" not happen, but much of what I've discovered blowing off work today and surfing the web says that this could be typical for hdtv...the video up-processing takes longer to do than the audio processing at the receiver.

No way my wife will allow me to buy a $300 audio delay thing which some have suggested.

No one else has this with an hdtv set? Perhaps something really is wrong with mine!

How new is your Sony receiver? Many of them now have the sound sync feature built in, + or -. Check your manual.

[TyroneShoes]

...I agree it "should" not happen, but much of what I've discovered blowing off work today and surfing the web says that this could be typical for hdtv...the video up-processing takes longer to do than the audio processing at the receiver...
While it is true that there is latency in decoding MPEG that does not delay audio, TV stations as a rule engineer audio so that it will still always be in sync on a typical receiver (which may involve pre-delaying audio to match the video), and ATSC receivers must comply to standards that do not upset that balance. IOW, the ATSC system and local engineering has taken all of those issues into account, and delay should not be an issue, assuming things are operating properly. It would be pretty foolish for the industry to adopt a new system that was plagued with A/V sync problems, and when properly engineered, there are none.

That being said, there is always the possibility things are not engineered properly. Some stations have chronic sync problems, usually minor, while every station or decoder can experience minor or even major sync issues on rare occasion, which are usually quickly fixed. Rare or not, the industry knows this can be an issue, and is actively trying to find ways to make things better. Some stations just won't spend the exra money for audio delay units to keep things synced, usually because DT still has no ROI, and won't until analog shutoff in 2009

What that leaves us with is the problem you are posting about. Does it happen on all sources consistently? if so, the delay issue may be in the display itself. Typically delay problems can be cumulative in a signal chain and still be unnoticed, and then when there is just a tiny bit more added, such as when a new TV is bought (and they all have a smidgen more delay than CRTs) the tiny change is enough to make it noticeable. Viewers also become much more aware and critical of pre-existing problems when they buy a new HDTV.

So there needs to be some investigation to see just why you are having the problem. If it is a local issue, proven by consistent delay on all sources at all times, you may need a AVR that compensates for the delay in your system, such as one of those from JVC. If it is just one or two stations, then they need you to be their "squeaky wheel" so that they will shape up.

Digital processing implies delay. All digital devices, including DVDRs, have it. Generally steps are taken to keep things transparent to the consumer, but not always. I find that watching SD video looped through my DVDR while listening to audio directly from my AVR (not through the DVDR) can provide enough delay to rise above the "annoyance" threshold, for instance.

[sisterzero]

So there needs to be some investigation to see just why you are having the problem. If it is a local issue, proven by consistent delay on all sources at all times, you may need a AVR that compensates for the delay in your system, such as one of those from JVC. If it is just one or two stations, then they need you to be their "squeaky wheel" so that they will shape up.

Digital processing implies delay. All digital devices, including DVDRs, have it. Generally steps are taken to keep things transparent to the consumer, but not always. I find that watching SD video looped through my DVDR while listening to audio directly from my AVR (not through the DVDR) can provide enough delay to rise above the "annoyance" threshold, for instance.
Hey thanks TyroneShoes...for the info and comments. Since I've had the tv now for several days I have noticed the delay is exactly as you suggest...intermittent and usually barely noticeable. Guess I was just being too critical. Thanks again, I appreciate the response!